- 13 hours ago
Berner built one of the most recognized cannabis brands on the planet while battling litigation, and a colon cancer diagnosis at 38. He sits down with Dan to talk about community building and the lessons behind his new book, Becoming Legend.
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00:00I remember just dreaming big all the time. I remember even telling my one of my teachers like
00:04in middle school like look you know you can say whatever you want about me and my my attention
00:07or my more work when it comes to class or I'm about to be someone special and none of this
00:11will matter. I feel like I had something I just didn't know quite what it was. I want to get
00:15into
00:15music. I don't really quite know how to make music. I kind of figured it out and I was obsessed
00:18with
00:18cannabis and figured out how I could work at the dispensary and just kind of put my foot in there
00:22as always just stay dedicated to whatever I want to do and just figure it out the hard way.
00:30Hey everyone welcome to How Success Happens. I'm Dan Bova writer and editor at entrepreneur.com.
00:36Today's guest is Berner the co-founder and CEO of Cookies which is one of if not the most
00:44recognized cannabis brands in the world. He's also a billboard charting hip-hop artist and I don't want
00:52to waste too much time on this intro because he has a new book out Becoming Legend The Billion Dollar
00:58Blueprint to be a Whale in a Sea of Sharks. That is one hell of a title. Welcome Berner.
01:06Thank you for having me.
01:07Yeah man great to talk to you. Love the tattoo right there on your hand. You got the brand
01:13represented right there. That's awesome.
01:15Yes sir.
01:16I wonder if you could give us just kind of an update on the legal status of cannabis because
01:22I know it's it's legal but on a federal level maybe not so much so where does everything stand?
01:29We're just waiting for the people to make you know make the right decision. It's still federally
01:33illegal here in the United States and hopefully that changes soon. I know there was some talk about
01:38changing the schedule but I'm not sure if that's going to be pushed through anytime soon but yeah
01:42we're just we're waiting for the good for the good changes to happen here.
01:45I mean what does that mean for you uh you know operating at the scale that you're operating at
01:51what kind of problems does that present with it being like technically you know no one's
01:57arresting anyone but technically it's not legal like what does that mean for you?
02:01Yeah for me it's nothing new. I've been operating in the gray area for a long time. You have to
02:05understand I've been in the medical business since I've been 18 years old so at a very young age I
02:09was in the medical area and and it just was the same thing gray area you know there's really no
02:14protection so I'm used to it um but really what it really means for us right now is that we
02:18don't
02:18get the benefits as other businesses do right like writing off employees expenses stuff like that.
02:23We can't really bank that easily we have to use credit unions and it's not as simple as things
02:27should be. Yeah right and I remember back in the day hearing stories about you know people hiring
02:33uh you know ex-navy seals and stuff like that to take care of their cash and all that kind
02:39of stuff.
02:40I assume you're beyond that level of having to deal with this.
02:44We are now yeah in the very beginning it was a little tough we had to be creative and we
02:48definitely have some stories like that uh but you know now it's a little more straightforward just
02:52have to deal with credit unions and some banks bank cannabis but I think the like writing off of
02:57expenses and just you know the cost operated business just needs it just needs to change it
03:01needs to be for our business for us we're paying good taxes why should we not be treated like a
03:05regular
03:05business. Yeah absolutely um so let's get into a little bit of you know your backstory and
03:13the growth of cookies so you started as you said uh when you're 18 years old uh you are a
03:19rapper long
03:20before cookies became a global brand can you kind of talk to us about the moment if there was a
03:27moment
03:27where you just went hey you know what this could be like a real company and a real big company.
03:34Yeah so you know I started off in the medical area when I was 18 and I started noticing that
03:38people
03:38whether they'd be off-duty cops um nurses uh teachers just all different walks of life enjoyed
03:45cannabis and the one thing that is a very common thing I've seen every day is that vendors would
03:49come in with products with no branding at all and it'd be up to us to make the logos to
03:53display
03:53the product and it's kind of merchandising and selling like you know what this is gonna be big
03:57one day and when it becomes like you know mainstream it kind of goes all around the world I want
04:01to be the
04:01first to have a brand because I think whoever has a brand first is going to succeed and that was
04:06my
04:06goal that was my vision and I think that really kind of hit home uh when I found the name
04:10cookies
04:10when I designed the logo for cookies and kind of using music and the clothing and and the canvas
04:15all at the same time to kind of push each other but it was a big moment for us like
04:19you know when I
04:20was when I started really building the brand cookies you know I always kind of knew what I wanted to
04:24do
04:24but once I found the name and I found the identity and I designed the logos I knew exactly what
04:28time it was.
04:28So you write about that extensively in the book this need to have like a clear vision so can you
04:34can you get in the weeds a little bit more about like cookies you know such a great name it
04:40sounds
04:40comforting it sounds delicious uh you know I love the way it looks can you talk about how that evolved
04:47and how you even came upon that name cookies? Yeah so you know the name came from the strain one
04:53of the
04:53most popular strains we had was the Girl Scout cookies and obviously can't call it Girl Scout cookies you
04:57probably have some legal trouble so yeah probably for sure but I think that when thinking about
05:01building a brand I'm like okay you want something that sounds familiar that sounds friendly that
05:05sounds welcoming that sounds that people would know all around the world right something that
05:09could look and feel like it's been seen before something that feels familiar and you'll also want
05:14to kind of a color way to to identify that brand even if you can't put the logo on things
05:18even if
05:18you just want to be sly and slick about it so when thinking about developing the brand I thought about
05:22all those things I'm like you know cookies is a great name for a brand everyone knows what a cookie
05:25is right when designing I'm like look this has to feel and look like someone's seen it before like
05:30they they just know what it is already you know and that's kind of what we what we aim for
05:34and
05:34that's what we did you know as everyone knows there was this sort of like massive gold rush when
05:40cannabis was starting to be legalized in states how did you separate yourself in the minds of consumers
05:47like out of the gate well being first always helped right like being first is like it's like a stamp
05:52you get to plant your flag and kind of let everyone know you're here I think the biggest thing we
05:56did
05:56was genetics like we had some of the best genetics ever when we rolled out like if they think about
06:00the original girl scout cookies the cherry pie the sunset sherbet the gelatos the biscottis we
06:05pretty much like planted our flag early with incredible genetics staple genetics that kind of
06:09touch the whole world you know people start getting their hands on it start sharing it with people and
06:13I think what really made us different than everyone else is I had the megaphone with the music so like
06:17we're able to do things I was able to document it share it with on my platform kind of let
06:21the world
06:21see and then became tangible however it became tangible so I think playing that seed using the
06:26megaphone and having something that was unique and different as far as like flavor and you know
06:30profiles go as far as when you smoke and enjoy cannabis it really may have stood out for someone
06:35like me who doesn't really know how this all works can you get can you talk to us a little
06:40bit
06:40about like how you go about developing different strains yeah so first thing first you have to kind of
06:45know your flavor profiles right what tastes like what what smells like what how does it make you
06:49feel what do you like what do you enjoy about those strains right I guess I guess like from there
06:54like
06:54you have to kind of know what market trends are what's trending in the market what do people like
06:57what are they not like what's missing so when it comes to developing new strains that herb you have
07:01to get the breed which is like kind of having a baby you have to hunt through the seeds and
07:06see
07:06what characters what characters characteristics you like which what you don't like and through that
07:11process you'll find you know what the next train is so it's pretty much like making a baby
07:14in a way that's wild yeah um and was like you know botany something that you were always like
07:22secretly a geek about or is this stuff that you learned on on the job no I just I kind
07:27of knew
07:28the right people that are doing that when I met them when I first got in the game I met
07:31some breeders
07:31that were doing that and I kind of like fell in love with the process it's one thing to love
07:35good
07:35weed but to be able to develop an art direct and kind of curate new weeds amazing so I get
07:39to play the
07:39background and say I really like this one right here and I would love to see if we reverse this
07:43one
07:43and took this pollen put in these three right here what would come out of each one of these and
07:48I'm able to kind of like art direct from the background I actually prefer that I'm not the
07:52I'm not great in the grow room myself I never really had to get my hands dirty you know in
07:56that
07:57field but I love to work with breeders I love to work with cultivators and my specialty and what I
08:01do
08:01best is curating menus uh selecting menus naming naming varieties branding them and rolling them out
08:08that's what that's what my strength is that's cool so yeah I wonder you and you mentioned we've
08:12talked a little bit about music uh but it is a huge part of your life and I wonder you
08:18know what lessons
08:19did you take from the music industry in the streetwear industry that you were able to carry over to you
08:25know to cookies marketing branding and rollout I tell people if we're gonna launch a new launch a new
08:31flavor in New Jersey treat like an album treat like a treat like it's like a big moment right like
08:36it's all
08:36about marketing and branding 100 as much as people don't like to hear that it really is like there's
08:41so many good uh cultivators and good breeders out in the world that never get a chance to share their
08:45work because they don't really understand marketing or branding you write a lot in your book about you
08:49know leveraging the power of the people around you your network uh can you talk a little bit about that
08:56like what is what does that look like in in practical application yeah so understand what you're good at
09:02like I just named my strengths right like what is my strengths what I do best cool well who's the
09:06best at breeding right now right who's the best breeder out there with the best varieties who's
09:10the best at cultivation right who's the best at documenting things I kind of go pick people that's
09:14great at what they do we build little teams around things that we do all right so whether it be
09:17music
09:18whether it be clothing whether it be breeding and selecting herb I try to find people that's great
09:22at what they do and kind of build a team around that right kind of understanding what you do good
09:25what you don't do good and building a team and working together is is key for all that
09:31and what about you I mean you you put yourself like front and center of this brand and there's a
09:37lot of founders who are a little hesitant to do that because they feel like oh it's not about me
09:43it's about my product or I don't know maybe they're shy or maybe they think oh who cares about me
09:48but what advice would you give to someone who has that kind of mindset about what you've seen
09:53that you did with your brand it's important I feel like when there's someone behind their brand they
09:58get to invest in the brand a little more especially the person the founder's journey
10:03but one thing I would give advice to is like it's not easy it's tough when things go wrong it
10:07falls
10:08on you yeah even if things out of your control like if we have a licensee and a different market
10:12that's
10:12not doing the best work it falls on you forget the licensee forget the cultivator forget the story
10:16that they went and had a bad experience on it's on you right so you have to be prepared for
10:21the ups
10:21and downs but I think it's I think overall it's very beneficial to be a face and a founder and
10:26be
10:27public about what you're doing because if you do it right and you're passionate and you bring people
10:31inside your world and you show them how you build what you build from A to Z they'll be a
10:35lot more
10:35invested in your journey yeah no that's that's so true and it actually leads me to so we get
10:40uh listener questions and we have a uh an interesting one today because on the back of your book you've
10:46got
10:46a blurb from Jason Pfeiffer who is the editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine and uh he big fan of
10:53your book
10:54big fan of you and he says you know something that you did remarkable isn't just that you're selling
11:00products but you're inviting people to be a part of this community and what advice do you have uh for
11:07people who are maybe working in a less glamorous industry or less fun industry about building that
11:14community and building that loyalty and that that sense of being together it's super important the more
11:19involvement people feel they have with your business or something that you develop or something
11:23that you roll out something you put out the more invested they are in it right so if you put
11:27uh you
11:28know something up you say what do you guys think about this or I have three different options which
11:32one you guys like more like hey come do a community tasting with me I got a bunch of new
11:36uh selections
11:37let's pick this one together let's name it together people are like that's I was a part of that it's
11:41big
11:42right they get it wear it on their sleeve a little more than they would you know if they hadn't
11:45been a part of it
11:46so I've always invited people to be a part of what I do whether it be selecting beats or like
11:50if I go
11:50live and say listen guys don't listen to this beat what do you guys think about it the more you
11:53can
11:53involve people in your process the more invested you're going to be and I feel like that's been a
11:57cheat go for me whether it be talking to people in the comments in my Instagram posts or back in
12:02the
12:02days MySpace posts or Twitter posts are involving people to come here and taste new genetics with me or
12:08just like simply ask people what do you guys think about this right like the more you involve people the
12:11more invested they're going to be in what you do I think it's very important to involve the community because
12:15what are we without the people that support us right yeah yeah absolutely so you know going back
12:21to back in the day like I wonder you know when you were when you were growing up when you
12:25were in high
12:25school like did you envision that this was going to be your life like what what what did you set
12:30out
12:31to do and how'd you get to where you are now I remember just dreaming big all the time I
12:36used to think
12:36I was going to be Kurt Cobain's roadie I used to think that I was going to be in the
12:40studio a big artist I
12:40would listen to at the time I remember even telling my one of my teachers like in middle school like
12:44look
12:45you know you can say whatever you want about me and my my attention or my more work when it
12:49comes
12:49to classwork I'm about to be someone special and none of this will matter I just was always like
12:54thinking that I was going to be somebody somehow some way shape or form and I don't know what the
12:59hell that was I don't know why I felt that but I was kind of dreaming big and I always
13:02knew that like
13:03I had a certain kind of aura around me that like when I was around people they're interested in what
13:06I was
13:06doing and how I felt and what I thought I'm like this is pretty interesting so I felt like I
13:11had
13:11something I just didn't know quite what it was and I just followed my heart you know I want to
13:16get into music I don't really quite know how to make music I kind of figured it out and I
13:20was
13:20obsessed with cannabis and figured out how I could work at the dispensary and just kind of put my foot
13:24in there as always just stay dedicated to whatever I want to do and just figure it out the hard
13:27way
13:28that's great I love that so I love the title of one of your chapters no is code for negotiate
13:36uh can you give us some of your top tips for making things happen when you're getting a no
13:43or disinterest or you know just a flat out no thanks yeah so it's important to say like sometimes
13:49no means no it's like you know if someone says no and you're you're doing something they don't like
13:53just stop right but when it comes like business or negotiations or you're trying to get something
13:57done like as a favor you know whatever it may be like remember with first thing first people are
14:02human beings right and so if you kind of lay it out differently like hey can I get a table
14:06here
14:06the restaurant's full no there's no tables all right you clearly see some tables this person
14:11is a person here you know look I travel pretty far we had a rough day on the road I
14:15would love to be
14:16able to sit down we'll be fast we know what we want here's 300 bucks we sit down cool maybe
14:20I'll do
14:20it right so it's like there's a ways to get people you know I had a situation in my chapter
14:25where I
14:25try to go do a video with Chris Brown and Wiz Khalifa and Big Crit at this racetrack right and
14:30I call and the
14:31guy said no it's not possible I said can I come see you in person if you want to hear
14:35no in person
14:36pull up so I pulled up you know two hour drive and sat down with him and told him why
14:40it was
14:40important I got this done and he heard me as a human being why it was important to me how
14:43it
14:44could change my life and you know we all have hearts and so if you if you're pitching something
14:47that's pure and and and you don't have any kind of ill intentions you're smooth about the way you do
14:51it you definitely change someone's mind a lot of time it's just business too like you know
14:55you want to get something done and the price is this and you want to try to get done for
14:59this and you
14:59has a leverage like no sometimes just like a quick answer someone give you because they don't want to talk
15:03about things or through things but I've gotten a lot of things done when people say no I've had
15:08samples that was denied like I've wanted to try to clear a sample for music and they said no and
15:12I
15:12explained to them this is why I want the sample clear this is what the song meant to me and
15:15this
15:16is why it's gonna be big I feel like every time I talk things through with people in a situation
15:19like
15:19that it always ended up working out for me yeah that's that's such great advice because and I've said
15:24this before but I feel like you know our our instinct or we sit behind a computer we send an
15:32email
15:32maybe we send a text but that that face-to-face you just you can't beat it that message from
15:38the
15:38heart you call someone say I'd like to have my carpets clean on Saturday well we're busy we can't
15:42get there till Thursday well look I got some family coming in I would love to give you guys a
15:46nice tip
15:46can we make it happen I'm open to work any kind of hours my house looks crazy I want my
15:50parents-in-law
15:51my in-laws to think I'm nuts yeah you know you're you're a funny guy I'll pull up we'll do
15:56it tomorrow
15:56I am just choose it cool so it's always a way to get things done I always even when I
16:01call restaurants
16:02right it's just like to-go orders and they don't have an menu anymore there's always ways to get
16:06things done if you just kind of talk with them right that's great be kind how did how does that
16:11extend to I mean you've got a pretty massive operation so how does that extend to the way
16:17you kind of lead your operation the people that work for you how do you kind of keep everyone on
16:22the same page doing what you want to do preserving your brand but also giving them room to you know
16:28to
16:29stretch their wings a little bit yeah it's tough brand preservation is everything for me right now
16:33in this in the chapter of my life you know we went really big really fast some things slipped
16:37through the crack some things did not so I'm just trying to preserve the brand as much as possible
16:41also give independent operators their freedom to to be operated right they don't want to just listen
16:45we're not a franchise so there's no like rule on how to do things 100 percent I love to have
16:49some kind of guidelines to protect the brand so just kind of like a fine balance right now
16:53yeah yeah um and you know we've we've mentioned your music I mean you've got I lost count it was
17:02over 40 albums on Spotify at my last count um and these are albums not songs you know these are
17:09these are big big works where does that creativity come from is it something that you just can't stop
17:16doing is it just something that flows out of you naturally yeah music is kind of like my my therapist
17:21it's my passion it's my uh it's way to get things off my chest and the way I do it's
17:26very very
17:26different than a lot of people a lot of people sit there and think about a jingle for a long
17:29time
17:30they think about a catchy hook and they kind of build around that I go in the studio for a
17:33weekend
17:33I'm like okay life has been lifing lately I need to go to the studio in LA I go to
17:38LA for seven days
17:39I bang out 14 songs right and that's those songs come out I'm not kind of got to hide things
17:43or hold
17:44things or let me have some things in the background on release if I make work I release work I
17:48have over
17:4946 albums out and I feel like it's almost like a journal of my of my journey um and you
17:55can tell
17:55the growth when you listen to things back from 2007 to now right like the conversation is different
18:01the things I'm talking about different of course I have like a barrier hustler like kind of
18:06style of music that's like you know very very unique but I kind of own my lane and I love
18:11it and
18:11I'm keep doing as long as people want to hear it during those down you know when things are going
18:15great that's great but as you said there's inevitably going to be problems what's your
18:20like what's your method for working through those problems without like going sideways too fast
18:25yeah just transparency with your customers as much as you can you know I'm really excited about the
18:30book because I'm able to talk about some of the stuff that we've been going through that have not
18:33been able to talk about publicly so it's gonna be good for people to hear my side of things um
18:37but
18:37you got to be transparent with your customers you have to just remember like look you chose this life
18:42and if it was easy everyone would be doing it right so you have to be able to put out
18:45fires
18:45manage things as best you can and keep strong keep your brand you know on fire as much as you
18:51can just
18:51like I don't know I I feel like I deal with things pretty well now I've been going through things
18:56for
18:57a while now and I feel like I always tell myself three things one if it was easy knowing everyone
19:03would be doing it two you know it's not harder than chemotherapy so that's my that's my latest
19:10on chemotherapies I'm gonna push through right I think three just remember why I'm here like I love
19:14what I do and any problem could be fixed if you have the right you know right intentions so I
19:18just
19:18try to push through things these days well yeah I mean you mentioned the chemotherapy you've you've
19:23been through a lot obviously and thank god you're you're doing well uh what is the connection in your
19:31mind between you know mental and physical health because that's such a big topic for people who
19:36choose to do very stressful things mental health is super important like you know you never really
19:42think that if you're in shape and you're working out and you're eating clean that your mental can
19:46affect your body and vice versa if you're super sharp minded and you're you you're not really
19:50stressed over things your body can affect your mental so it's important to keep both intact I struggle
19:55with my diet I'm a foodie by nature and I live in San Francisco some of the best food in
19:59the world
20:00out here but just trying to keep my mental and my health in check right now I had colon cancer
20:04at 38
20:04years old and I could have died if I didn't find it and you know ASAP they said another six
20:10months
20:10to a year without dressing I would have been dead in a year wow I see people and I met
20:14people on my
20:14journey that are no longer here that were in better shape than me or in the same position as me
20:18and
20:19I'm actually going to go speak at the city hall tonight for colorectal cancer awareness and you know
20:24it's crazy colorectal cancer now is the biggest killer for people under 50 when it comes to cancer
20:30I'm more aware of that than ever and I just try to avoid processed foods as much as I can
20:34even when
20:35when on the road and things get tempting for a few months of being bad I got to clean it
20:38back up and
20:39put yourself in check so for entrepreneurs out there your rest and your mind is just as important
20:43as your body and your body is even more important than your mind and your rest yeah oh well amen
20:48to
20:48that that's uh very well said and very cool that you are out there trying to educate people uh to
20:55help
20:55them uh stay on top of this because yeah your health is everything um is there anything from
21:02this book that you are really like anxious for people to read and understand I'm sure you get
21:09a lot of questions a lot of people who looking to pick your brain I want to do this I
21:14want to do that
21:15like what's the overall message you want to put out there you know for the last three years we've
21:20been under a big attack litigation wise and I've had to stay silent about it you know I don't know
21:24if
21:24it goes in litigation when you're arbitration can't really talk about anything and it's been
21:29really hard for me because I'm a very transparent guy like I mentioned and I just want my fans to
21:32understand what we've been dealing with and I address some of that in this book and I cannot
21:36wait for them to read that because I think they're going to respect who I am and what I've done
21:39when they read that and understand what we've been dealing with has been very very difficult
21:43it's been very very tough and people try to take my shit and I've been fighting for it very hard
21:48and
21:49there's certain things that slipped through the cracks the last few years I don't want them to think
21:52it was intentional or I just don't care I've been dealing with some crazy things that were out of
21:55my control but if I could things are back in control and in my hands now I would love for
21:59people to understand what we've been dealing with so I'm excited about that it's been really great
22:02talking to you I love this book it's out now it's called becoming legend any other ways people could
22:09keep up with you what you're what you're dropping what you're putting out there yeah definitely follow
22:15my x is burner four on five uh b-e-r-n-e-r phone five same with twitter or
22:20same with instagram
22:21very active on those uh platforms so stay tuned excellent we will all right man thanks so much
22:27this has been great appreciate it brother
22:29you
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