- 2 hours ago
Haley Sacks, aka Mrs. Dow Jones, just dropped her first personal finance book and celebrated by buying a gold watch. Which, honestly, tracks. Her whole deal is that you shouldn't deprive yourself. Forget the strict budget. Haley's method is about finding ways to make more money, not suffering through life one skipped latte at a time. Pre-order her new book Future Rich Person.
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00:00You have this love of pop culture and who's the gift that keeps on giving? Who's the celebrity
00:04that you just wait for the next thing for them to do? That is such a good question. No one
00:09has
00:09asked me that and I am like so ready to answer it. I love it. Hey everyone, welcome to How
00:19Success
00:20Happens. I'm Dan Bova, writer and editor at entrepreneur.com. Today we're speaking with
00:25Haley Sachs, better known as Mrs. Dow Jones. Haley is super smart and super funny when it comes to
00:33explaining all things money. She has 1.5 million followers who listen to her every word when it
00:40comes to financial news, personal planning, and understanding why exactly Justin Bieber just did
00:47that on stage. She hosts the Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones podcast and she has a new book out
00:55Future Rich Person, which goes on sale May 12th. Welcome, Haley. Thank you so much for having me.
01:03You've got, see, I've got an advanced copy. You've got the real thing in the background.
01:08Oh, I've got, I've got galleys. I've got, I mean, they, we've got, I can't leave home without this
01:15book. And I never return home with it either because I'm always like giving it to someone.
01:20Before we get into all the advice in the book, I think let's learn a little bit more about you.
01:26How did you become Mrs. Dow Jones? I grew up, um, on the Upper East Side with a dad who
01:35worked on
01:36Wall Street and a mother who is a social worker. Um, and despite living in, you know, a zip code
01:42where
01:42people were wealthy and having a dad who manages, uh, you know, rich people's wealth for a living,
01:49I was basically like if LeBron James's daughter couldn't shoot a free throw, like I,
01:58I really, you know, didn't know much. Um, and it was never taught to me. And more than that,
02:05I think that I took in a lot of the, um, stories that we sort of tell women like, oh,
02:11it's not for
02:11you or that like you should focus on saving instead of investing and just be nice. And so, uh, you
02:19know,
02:20it was sort of a cacophony of lots of, um, you know, just financial ignorance and avoidance. Um,
02:28and I wanted to be a comedian. And so I went to film school and then when I graduated, I
02:37got a job
02:38for David Letterman as a page and I was doing standup every night on the, on the Lower East Side
02:45and I was doing improv and I was, it was just when the internet was really sort of starting. It
02:54was
02:55also making a lot of videos online on YouTube. Uh, but not about finance at that point, just about
03:01like, you know, funny videos. And I had had a previous, uh, I had, you know, been a little
03:06bit famous on the Vine, if you remember Vine in college. And then I was, I was big on Facebook
03:12video,
03:12um, in high school, middle school. So I was always really interested in the internet and connecting
03:20with people digitally and really wanted to have a voice. But I think at that point I didn't really
03:26understand what I wanted to say. And then I got hired by Lorne Michaels who started SNL to, uh,
03:37to be a writer and not for SNL for a different thing that he was doing. And, um, it was
03:44a really
03:44big deal to me because I had been, you know, working so hard for so long trying to find, and
03:50it's such a
03:50hard industry to break into. It was just so, so cool to get that opportunity. Um, and I wanted
03:58to do such a good job. And it was my first full-time job because up until then, all my
04:02jobs
04:02had been 1099s. When I worked for Letterman, they kept me on the 1099 babysitting Pilates studio, like
04:08all of these odd jobs that I'd had, none of it was like, Hey, do you want health insurance? What's
04:13up
04:13with your retirement plan? Whatever. So I've been able to avoid any financial realness. I hadn't yet to
04:19have my money aha moment. Um, and then I went to the first day at that job and they asked
04:27me,
04:27they had the audacity to ask me about 401ks and health insurance and all of these things. No one
04:33had ever taught me that I was certain I was not responsible enough to make decisions on. And so I
04:40just remember that night, like going, taking the train home. I think I stress ordered Thai food
04:46and I did whatever, you know, what any self-respecting millennial would do and went on
04:51YouTube to try and learn. And what I found was either information sort of geared at men by men
04:59that was, uh, really jargon heavy about investing. And to be honest, most of them look like they had
05:05been through puberty. So I was like, I would, you know, I don't think I'm going to listen to you.
05:12I
05:12certainly wouldn't date you. And then the women, the advice for women was all about, uh, scarcity and
05:21saving. And, you know, because like part of the, how they keep us in the patriarchy is to make sure
05:27that women don't grow wealth because money is power. And so it was all just sort of connected to that
05:32idea
05:33of like, never get your nails done, rewash your paper towels, like all of these things that were,
05:40that made my life feel really small. But I realized in that moment that like, you know, okay, I'm,
05:46I think I'm becoming an adult here, sort of got this job. I want to level up a bit. Um,
05:52but it doesn't,
05:53I don't want to be like those guys. And I also, those girls, like this information for women isn't
05:59appealing to me either. I want, I'm looking for someone who can make it aspirational to grow wealth
06:07with so aspiration. I loved pop culture always and celebrities. And it was, uh, always so exciting
06:16for me to see, you know, what they were spending on and, you know, spending is so people love to
06:22see
06:22how could we bring that same glamor to the arduous, long, hard, boring process of becoming future rich
06:32people. And so I didn't see that person. And so I became her. That's amazing. That's amazing. And I
06:39got to say as a Gen Xer, when I first got those forums, I didn't have YouTube to look up.
06:46So I just
06:46was like, uh, yeah, that I have no idea. And I always wonder that why, why do we graduate college
06:53with no clue about anything about mortgages, about loans? It's crazy.
06:59It's so, I mean, you should leave college understanding taxes, knowing to negotiate your
07:04salary. I mean, all of these are understanding how to budget. Like these are really rudimentary
07:11skills that just are not taught in the system and need to be, because it keeps us all behind.
07:17So the Lauren Michaels thing, did that job end and then you, uh, went this way or how did,
07:23how did those two things go?
07:25So I had this idea sort of like that night I was like, okay, you know, I, I'd always loved
07:30making
07:30content. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to start like teaching myself a little bit more about
07:34this, but I, I'm going to do it like by making content because that I loved making videos. I still
07:40do. And I was like, this will like, keep me sort of honest. Like all, you know, I can learn
07:44what
07:44EBITDA means. I can learn what, you know, a bear market means. It was, it was mostly about investing
07:48terms because I felt like, uh, so blocked off from the world of wall street. And I was like,
07:54wait, no, I can learn this. I'm smart enough. I can learn it. Um, and so I started to teach
07:59myself
07:59while I had this job, but I think that what's interesting and, you know, so much of my book
08:03is about the new rules of building wealth, because, you know, a lot of most financial advice
08:08books were really written for a world that doesn't exist anymore. And if you're, um, you
08:13know, trying to build wealth in this economy, which is so different than any economy that
08:17we've ever had between AI and the housing crisis and student debt, um, and, you know,
08:22wages not increasing with the cost of living and just, and also how much choice people have
08:27as well. Uh, you're not going to succeed. Um, and so it was really important to me to create
08:35a book that sort of met the moment in that way. Yeah. Well, you write in here, uh, the
08:41American dream is dead. Long live the new American dream. So what do you mean by the new American
08:47dream? I think the new American dream is really about having more choice. Like the old American
08:55dream was so prescriptive, right? It was everyone had to, you know, have their white picket fence
09:03and 2.5 kids and a dog and a minivan. And now there's so much more opportunity. I mean,
09:13for women, we can have kids later in life. We can be entrepreneurs, you know, you could start your
09:20own company. You could decide to retire early. You could rent your whole life instead of buying.
09:27You could be somebody who's really good with credit card points. Like there's like just so many
09:32ways to go about your financial life now that are different from back then because we have so much
09:38more opportunity. Yeah. Well, one of the things, uh, speaking of choice, you write, uh, you have to
09:45choose your heart. Can you explain a little bit what that means? Absolutely. So, you know, I think that
09:55any, like I will, getting rich is simple, but it's not easy because whenever you're going to change
10:03your habits, um, and really make a shift in your life, it requires discipline and awareness. Um,
10:10and it's something that you have to be relentless in the pursue of, especially at the beginning. It's
10:14always the beginning that is, uh, the most difficult because, you know, change is hard. Um,
10:19and so, yes, that is, I don't try to sugarcoat anything about this being hard. Like if you want
10:26to live an amazing life, the life of your dreams, but maybe your dream is like, your dream could be
10:31just like, I rent an apartment and like, I, you know, lease my car and I go to my job
10:36every day.
10:37Maybe your dream is that you, you know, DJ in a visa. Your dream doesn't have to be,
10:42I want to live on a yacht or like whatever, like these, you know, ideas that we have of being
10:47like a rich
10:47person are in our head. Like the idea is your dream should be something that sets you on fire,
10:53but in order to get there, it's going to take sacrifice and focus. And so choosing your heart
11:00is saying, Hey, do I want to be a little bit uncomfortable now so that in the future I can
11:05get those things, which yes, is going to be hard, but won't it be harder to get to that age
11:12or get to
11:13that moment and not have those things. And that to me, that hard seems a lot worse for someone
11:19listening to this right now, who's getting all fired up, listening to you talk, what are,
11:24what are some of those first steps they can take to start planning and start, uh, putting that dream
11:31life together? Well, I think what's interesting is Dan is like, you know, and I spend the beginning
11:38of the book really just working on mindset first and foremost, um, because it's like, I can teach you
11:46anything about money really, but it will never stick if you don't figure out why your financial
11:55habits are the way they are, what's driving your behavior and really consciously work to change it.
12:03You know, like that is like really the first step is examining your relationship to money. Like,
12:11let me try something with you. Do you have a first money memory that you remember?
12:17Ooh, that's a great question. Uh, I do remember, uh, yes. Uh, one of my first summer jobs, uh, at
12:28the end of
12:28the week, my, my boss, who was my across the street neighbor handing me an envelope full of cash and
12:35I
12:35was so psyched, uh, but we, we didn't do anything nefarious. We were building above ground pools,
12:43which is kind of nefarious, but, uh, but yes, I remember getting that money in my hand for sure.
12:48And like, how did it feel? Felt great. What'd you do with that?
12:53I probably went and bought some CDs and went to the movies and, uh, bought a bunch of big gulps
13:00and it
13:01was probably gone, uh, in two days. Exactly. And then it's like, do you see any of that behavior
13:06now in how you act with money or like how you've had to change your relationship with money to become
13:11more successful? So I would say for me, and I wonder if this is true for other people, I don't
13:18feel
13:18like I'm, uh, like spending on frivolous things, but I'm probably using my credit card more than I
13:26would like to because I feel like I have no other choice. I get that. I think that, I mean,
13:32that makes
13:32a lot of sense. Um, and you know, what I talk about in the book too, is there's a whole
13:36chapter called
13:37securing the damn bag, which is, you know, and most people don't, especially as you get older, I feel
13:44like we get so set in our ways that we don't really give ourselves the opportunity to step back
13:49and really think about like strategy in our life as much as we just go through the motions.
13:54And so like, even with something like that, you, you realizing, okay, maybe I need to make more money
14:00in order to like, I can't really cut back more. I'm not really a fan of telling people to cut
14:05back.
14:06It goes from that same moment that I was online, you know, trying to find financial advice
14:12and it made me feel so deprived, all the advice that I was finding. Like I am really about,
14:17I think that it's as easy as it to cut as it is to find a way to make an
14:21extra thousand dollars,
14:23$10,000, like to find ways to increase your skillset, to find, um, you know, look at, you know,
14:30what, how, what, how much time do you have? What are, what are opportunities that you could
14:34utilize to make your income grow? Um, and people, I feel like it's so easy for us to cut back.
14:42But, and it feels so, um, I say this in the book, I'm like record scratch freeze frame. Yeah,
14:50that's me. I'm a financial expert telling you to make more money. Like you're probably rolling
14:55your eyes at me. You like think like, you're like, okay, great. How like, I, yes, of course I want
15:01more money. Everyone wants more money, but I sort of walk you through the steps of how to
15:07examine what you have going on and like your value and how you could earn more money,
15:12um, and how to put that together so that you can increase your income.
15:17Yeah. And, uh, you know, one thing that I loved, uh, seeing in your book, it was that you said,
15:21this isn't about cutting lattes out of your life. Cause that was such a, such a big piece of
15:27financial advice for so long. Like, Oh, $10. Yeah. It's like, okay, I'm going to save $50 a month
15:36and now I'll be able to put a down payment on a house like that, that, and, and live a
15:41joyless
15:42experience in the meantime. So I love that you have that in your book and this isn't the avocado toast
15:48example, like you just said. Yeah. I'm like really not into shame based, um, financial advice
15:58because I really look at money as a tool less than a number. Like to me, being a future rich
16:02person
16:03looks different for every person. Like it could be a huge number in your bank account, but it could
16:08also just be like, okay, I get to get up. I can stop working every day at three and like
16:13get my kids
16:14from school or like, you know what I mean? Like these like little things that we aspire to do
16:19that money as a tool could give us the freedom to go after. Um, and so I think that everyone's
16:26version of that is so different. So like maybe your version of that is getting a little treat every
16:31day. Maybe you really, you're a future rich person loves to get like a $13 matcha every freaking day.
16:38And it's like, great. You can have anything, but you can't have everything. So with the
16:43future rich person spending plan, we find a way to make that work. Maybe it's not every day. Maybe
16:48you're going, you know, once a week, twice a week, and you're cutting back on a few other things,
16:53but it's like more than anything, I would probably say, Hey, can, how can we make more money to, uh,
16:59to make this feel less of a pinch because it really, you're getting a lot of value from it.
17:05So talk to me about action money. Cause I love that phrase and I love what it represents in your
17:12book. Can you tell us about that? Thank you. I know I love action money too. So I mean,
17:18to make any financial progress, you have to have action money, which is money left over after you
17:26deduct your expenses from your income. And that is the, and this is like, it doesn't matter who you
17:31are. Like that's what people also get confused about with finance. Like people say, Haley, how much
17:36money do I need to start? You could start with $1 or you could start with a million dollars. Like,
17:41but it's the same formula for anyone where you really do just need to have that action money,
17:46which is that you are spending less than you make. And with that money that you have left over,
17:51depending where you're at in your financial process, because you have to follow strategic
18:01steps to correct, to become a future rich person. Like first, it's so important for you to save
18:07a three to six month emergency fund and a high yield savings account. And, you know, I talked
18:14through the book, how to decide if you need to be closer to the three month or the six month.
18:18And it
18:19really depends on if you have dependents, what kind of job you have, how easy it is to find a
18:25new role in
18:26that kind of career, what the economy looks like, but you can determine for yourself where you stand on
18:32that. And then once you have that saved up, you would focus on high interest rate debt, which is
18:39any debt above 7%. And then after that, you start to invest towards retirement and really look towards
18:47those tax advantage retirement accounts and maxing those out.
18:50So in your experience, looking at finance from every angle, do you see common spots that people have
18:58blind spots to where they don't realize money's going out the door because they're just not paying
19:03attention? So many people don't have a system set up for their money, which is why I really believe
19:09in reading a personal finance book. Like, of course, I'm going to recommend future rich person.
19:13I think it's great. I wrote every word, it'll do the trick. But like, you know, if I'm not your
19:18cup
19:18of tea, and you're listening to this, just read one doesn't like, like do me that favor. Because you need
19:25to learn how to automate your money and create a system around it, or else you will have those
19:32leakages. And, you know, something that I see a lot too, is that people don't really realize how
19:38negotiable life is. Like so many of our, what we think are fixed expenses are actually not fixed.
19:47You know, like I, um, car insurance, for example, I, when I've been helping people compare their car
19:54insurance rates, because the cost of gas is so high. And obviously, that's out of control. Like I
19:59can't, you know, I can give you hacks for okay, go to this gas station instead of that one. Right.
20:04And
20:05they'll save you some money. But does that really move the needle? No, you're saving like a tiny bit. But
20:10what does move the needle is compare your car insurance rates where people are saving on,
20:15on average, $500 to $1,000, just by looking through their car insurance rates. You can also do this
20:21for your phone bills. You can do this for medical bills, like just any sort of, you just for credit
20:30card interest rates, everything is negotiable. Yeah, that's great. Absolutely. And how does that
20:36translate? So we've been talking a lot about our personal finances. Let's talk a little bit about
20:41entrepreneurs and small business owners, because there's a lot of money stress there, too. What's
20:47your relationship with, with risk betting on yourself, you bet on yourself? Was that a nerve wracking
20:54experience? Or did it feel like it just came naturally to you? I mean, okay, so when I back to
21:00my like job trajectory, so when I, so I was at Lord Michaels, and then six months into that job,
21:06we all got laid off. Um, and I knew at that point that I wanted to pursue this finance concept
21:15that
21:15I had, I felt really passionate about it. I had, um, an insatiable need for the knowledge around it.
21:23Like I, and I still have that. So I knew that I was like, you know, pursuing the right thing,
21:28but I didn't have the income from it yet. Cause I hadn't really been able to, uh, to focus on
21:34it.
21:35And so then I spent about a year, maybe a year and a half. There was a guy at Above
21:40Average who then
21:41went to work at this music production company and he hired me to write videos for them.
21:49Cause I had this skill, which is like a skill is great. Skill will get you very far in life.
21:53You could
21:54always fall back on it. And so I knew how to write these digital videos. So he was like, great,
21:58write these for us. And I would make the amount of money that I needed for rent, but it didn't
22:02take
22:02up all my time. And I could pursue Mrs. Dow Jones on the side. And then I was able to
22:09really go full
22:11time. And Mrs. Dow Jones, when I had like $70,000 saved, because I mean, at that point I'd been
22:17making
22:17like $50,000. Like it was not like I was making that much money, but I was like, okay, let
22:21me give this a
22:22year with this money that I have saved. And I can, this will be my salary. And I can always
22:28go back
22:28to what I was doing. Like in my head, I was always like, okay, I'm either going to try to
22:33do this
22:33better myself or I'll go get a job at like a comedy central or something like that. And just continue
22:39to try and do this TV comedy thing. And so once I had that money saved up, then I was
22:45able to go
22:46full time with it and, you know, was soon out earning that salary that I'd given myself.
22:54But I think that what's, yeah, but I think that what's really important though, is that throughout
23:00that, you know, I was investing back in my business, of course, but I was always hedging my bets. And
23:07I
23:07think that's really important for entrepreneurs is first of all, entrepreneurs. And I, guys, if you are
23:13an entrepreneur, and this is such an important thing for me to include in this book, because
23:17the entrepreneurial generation is only getting bigger. Like we are coming in troves, like it is
23:25going absolutely crazy. And it's only going to become more and more. But no one really, I mean,
23:32no one teaches us about money in general, but no one teaches you about the amazing tax advantages that
23:36you can get from setting up your company properly and utilizing those tax advantaged accounts.
23:44And so I, you know, I have a whole part of the book dedicated to breaking down, like,
23:52what's a SEP IRA? What is, you know, what are, can you, what does it mean if I don't have
23:57a 401k at
23:57work? How can I still save for retirement? What kind, what is an S-Corp? What's an LLC? Like all
24:04these
24:04questions that no one answers, but you really, really need to know in order to set up your company
24:10properly. But I will say, it's so great to bet on yourself, but make sure that you have a safety
24:16net
24:16when you do it. And also make sure that you're never all in. Because you always want to have
24:24diversified income streams. And you also want to make sure that you're taking advantage of,
24:28you know, all those tax advantages you can get as an entrepreneur.
24:31Yeah, that's great. Um, you, uh, mentioned how you had this love of pop culture and pop culture
24:39comes up, uh, time and time again in your videos, which are very funny. Who's the gift that keeps
24:45on giving? Who's the celebrity that you just wait for the next thing for them to do, whether it be
24:51good
24:51or just like a, what is this person doing? That is such a good question. No one has asked me
24:56that.
24:56And I am like, so ready to answer it. I love it. Um, okay. So Taylor Swift, obviously people are
25:04obsessed with, although right now I feel like her, like she's like not being as famous currently,
25:09but people are so obsessed with her. So that's a big one. Uh, definitely Justin Bieber, Beyonce and
25:16Jay-Z, um, uh, Kim Kardashian. They're, uh, Kim and Beyonce's kids are really big for me.
25:25Those always do really well. Um, trying to think who else always hits. I mean, those were really
25:31like our A-listers as of 2026, like, you know, actors don't really have the same platforms as
25:37they used to. Uh, and so, and you have to sort of find people who are universal enough. And like,
25:44what I look for is people who are in the conversation. Like I just did all this, uh,
25:48all these videos about Bieber and Coachella and it's like, yeah, because Coachella we're in the
25:52between weekend one and weekend two, it's on everyone's minds. Yeah. And so, you know,
25:58that's like, that's how, you know, like, or like I did a really big video about Lou Ivy,
26:03who's Beyonce's daughter. And it was when Beyonce was on tour with her daughter and, uh, every weekend
26:10there would be videos of the daughter dancing online, going viral. So you have to know like what's
26:15in the culture. That's great. And, and I would say, and you, you have a natural affinity for it.
26:22You're, you're not like forcing something that you don't actually care about. You love this stuff.
26:27No, I love, I love, I'm like, actually like, why am I still so obsessed? And my favorite part of
26:32my
26:32job is just like researching, like reading. Cause I have to read all the financial things and then
26:37I got to make it my job to like check daily mail. That's great. That's great. Uh, excellent. So
26:45let's, uh, why don't we, uh, move along into the speed round. Oh, I love this conversation. So
26:53here's your first question. Um, what is rich? Give us a number. So I actually don't think that rich is
27:01a
27:02number. I think that, you know, of course you have to be, uh, money. People say money can't buy
27:08happiness. That's absolutely not true. Money takes away so much sadness and like, uh, gives you the
27:14ability to take care of yourself, buys you back your time. You can support other people. You can
27:18support your community. Like that is not something that we should ever take for granted. But one thing
27:23that I do like to talk about, it's like, when you focus on having a lot of one thing, that's
27:30actually a
27:30lot easier than having some of, of many things. And so if you have all this money and you're chasing
27:38that number, but you don't have relationships, your health is not taken care of. Your mental health is
27:43in the gutter. Then you're not really living a future rich person life. So it's not about a number
27:50as much as it is. It's about being well-lived and well-resourced. All right. I'll allow it. Um,
27:58so what is a habit that you're happy to have and one that you wish you could ditch? Um,
28:05I always make my bed. I think that's a good habit. Like I, like, even if I'm at like a
28:10hotel or
28:10something like that, I love that. Yeah. I always do it. I think that's a good habit. I also wake
28:15up
28:16early cause I was a rower all in college and so I was used to that. So that's good. And
28:21then a habit
28:22that I want to ditch is definitely phone before bed. I like go through such good spurts where I'm
28:27like, damn, I'm not using right phone before bed. And then I relapse. So it is something that I think
28:34will constantly be a goal that I'm chasing. Got it. That's great. And then finally, tell us about
28:41one irresponsible purchase you made and why it was worth every penny.
28:48Oh, okay. Well, I bought a gold watch when I got my book deal. Nice. Um, I don't think it
28:55wasn't
28:55irresponsible in the way that I couldn't afford it. And I, I bought it secondhand under warranty. So
29:01it was like not at a face value and, but I knew that it was authentic. So I did it
29:08all the right way,
29:08but also it was like, definitely that money would have grown way more in the stock market than it would
29:14on my wrist, but I freaking love it. Like I love what it represents. Um, it's such a really reminder
29:22of the hard work of this book. And, um, you know, I just, I think it's beautiful and I got
29:27a lot of
29:28value from it. That's awesome. I love that. Fantastic. Well, everyone future rich person, uh, here it's
29:37behind her. It is out, uh, may 12th. I've read a lot of it and I love it. I can't
29:43wait to read the rest
29:44of it. So thank you so much for writing it and for telling us all about it. Thank you so
29:50much. And I
29:50will also say, Dan, when you pre-order the book, you get around $700 worth of freebies. So I'm like,
29:59I've created all of these guides and like cheat sheets to support the book launch that occur when
30:08you pre-order them. Awesome. Awesome. And, and it comes with a, a free gold watch too, right?
30:15Exactly. And that's what the pre-order that you do got a free gold watch and Dan is sort of
30:19going to
30:19help support that goal for everyone. Awesome.
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