- 41 minutes ago
Danielle Sepsy started developing her secret scone recipe at 13. That recipe built The Hungry Gnome. But to grow, she had to share it with her team, and eventually with the world in her new book, The Scone Queen Bakes. So how do you scale a secret without losing your edge? Danielle figured it out. And this week, she's telling us how.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Especially when you have your own business, so much of it relies on you and your vision.
00:05And in my case, it's a bakery, right?
00:07So a lot of the recipes were and still are a secret.
00:11So a lot of it is dependent on me, but the business grew and grew.
00:16And now I went from a few dozen baked goods a day to now 15,000 a day.
00:22How could I possibly do it by myself?
00:26Running a business means solving problems.
00:29I tell you how the smartest entrepreneurs do it.
00:32Hi, I'm Jason Pfeiffer, Editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine, and this is Problem Solvers.
00:40You know, there's this old saying, if you do something you love, you never work a day in your life
00:46or something like that.
00:47I don't know.
00:47But you know what?
00:48The thing about that is that it's not actually very true because if you do build a business off of
00:52a thing that you love, you get yourself into this trap.
00:55And the trap is that you know it so well that you also feel like you're the only person who
01:01can do all the things.
01:03And all the things have to come out of you.
01:06This is driven by your passion, your vision.
01:08You've got to do that and that and that and that.
01:10And very soon you have built something that is kind of unsustainable because you are only one person and you
01:18are stretched too thin and you haven't actually built out the systems that can replace you.
01:23Because it feels kind of crazy to replace you, right, in the thing that you built because of your passion.
01:29This is what tanks so many passion-based businesses.
01:32And this is what we are going to solve today because I am talking to someone who has done exactly
01:38that.
01:38Her name is Danielle Sepsi.
01:39She is the founder and creator of The Hungry Gnome, which is a Long Island City-based wholesale bakery that
01:47produces over 12,000 baked goods daily, distributed to more than 300 partners nationwide, and is the author of the
01:53new cookbook, The Scone Queen Bakes, which if that's not about scones, then I am very confused.
01:59Danielle, thank you for being here.
02:01Welcome to Problem Solvers.
02:02Thank you, Jason, for having me.
02:04Danielle, you have built this business.
02:07This is a passion-based business for you.
02:08Did you run into this problem?
02:11Did you stretch yourself so thin that this thing nearly collapsed on you?
02:14You know, although it maybe never collapsed, I think, you know, not only from my current business, but working in
02:22hospitality throughout my whole career, you know, it's something you go into not because you think you're going to become
02:28a multimillionaire.
02:29It's such a passion-based business.
02:31But you, so many people in the industry, including myself, at times just become so burnt out.
02:41And it's because you, especially when you have your own business, so much of it relies on you and your
02:48vision.
02:48And in my case, it's a bakery, right?
02:51So a lot of the recipes were and still are a secret.
02:55So a lot of it is dependent on me.
02:58And so it really took me some soul-searching in the beginning because I, you know, I thought, okay, I'm
03:06the only one that can execute some of these recipes the way that I want them.
03:11And, but the business grew and grew.
03:14And now I went from a few dozen baked goods a day to now 15,000 a day.
03:20How could I possibly do it by myself?
03:23And so very quickly, you realize that it cannot solely depend on you and that you have to put systems
03:31in place.
03:31Um, and really, uh, so much of it was about hiring the right people.
03:38So, so let's, let's start back there actually with hiring because these early hires, especially in a business like this,
03:46where you consider yourself to be the expert, it's drawing from you in your case, your recipes.
03:51So this isn't just any hire.
03:54How did you approach an early hire where this was probably as much a business issue as it was an
04:01emotional issue for you?
04:03Yeah.
04:04I mean, when I hire people, I don't always just look at who has a ton of experience in the
04:12world of baking.
04:14It's more an attitude and, um, and a drive and the willingness to want to learn.
04:22And so many of the people that started the business with me and worked with me, and some of them
04:29still work with me today, they had no baking experience.
04:31Some of them had worked in kitchens, but never had done baking.
04:35And so I can quickly see within, you always do a trail, uh, when we, when we are hiring people.
04:41So they come in and they work with us for usually three to four hours.
04:45Um, and as much as it is, uh, our way of seeing if they're the right fit, it's also a
04:50way for them to see if they want to be there too.
04:54Um, but during that time, you know, I'm looking for someone that has good intuition.
04:59They have, they're super proactive.
05:01Um, they're, when they're done with the task, they're already asking, what can I do next?
05:07Or they're already jumping in without asking to do something to help somebody else.
05:12Um, it's an attitude.
05:14This, by the way, it feels a little counterintuitive.
05:16I bet for a lot of people, because what I think a lot of folks in those early higher days
05:22in a passion-based business think is I need to find someone who has done exactly this work.
05:29And is a master at this thing.
05:32And what you're saying is actually don't do that.
05:34No.
05:35Because, well, actually I have a hypothesis, which is that if you find that person, then they are going to
05:41come and they're going to do their thing.
05:43Right.
05:43The way that they know how to do it.
05:45But what you're looking for is actually someone who can be crafted into an extension of you, which means that
05:50they need the right raw material as learners and skilled people.
05:53But they also need to be in a position to be molded by you.
05:57And so you're looking for that.
05:58Am I right?
05:59Absolutely.
06:00And I've seen that time and time again, where, you know, I get resumes for people that have really extensive
06:05pastry background and they come in and they tell me they want to just start their own bakery.
06:12And as much as I admire that, because that was once me, I don't, I know that maybe the focus
06:17isn't going to be on helping me grow and sustain my business.
06:23Um, and that they're kind of just looking to, um, to learn from me and then just get out and
06:30do their own thing.
06:31And so I really, it's about looking for hardworking people, um, that have speed and have the passion, but also
06:41just, again, it's this intuition.
06:42And I can tell within the first few minutes really of someone being in the kitchen, if they've got that
06:49it factor or not.
06:51Um, and, uh, it's just that, that drive and that intuition.
06:56A lot of people who build passion-based businesses don't have anything down on paper.
07:03They just know how to do it themselves.
07:06And so the ideas are in their head and the processes are in their head.
07:12And therefore, if somebody does join the team, they don't know what to do.
07:15And they certainly don't feel empowered to do something.
07:18So you had mentioned a little bit earlier that this is about training, but it's also about systems.
07:22And I'm wondering what you have found or what you teach others about how to take this knowledge that's in
07:29your head and turn it into something that is actually replicatable by other people.
07:34Yeah.
07:34I mean, it's something that I'm still working on myself.
07:38I mean, we have grown so much in the past six years and a lot of our training is super
07:44hands-on, um, because of just the nature of what we're doing.
07:49And also because I'm working with people from all different cultures and walks of life and levels of education and
07:55people that don't even speak the same language as me.
07:58So a lot of it is truly, uh, tactical, you know, work experience and working together.
08:04Uh, but as we're kind of entering this next stage of growth, we, my, my management team and I have
08:11discussed, you know, we need some SOPs, some standard operating procedures put down on paper.
08:16Um, because now we sort of know what works, what doesn't work.
08:20Uh, so we're putting together these more formal job descriptions and whether it's also like cleaning, how do you clean
08:28the mixing, the mixers?
08:31How do you, um, bake the items, you know, and have, although, like I said, there's a level of intuition
08:38with, with baking because every oven is different.
08:41Every day is different based on the temperature of the air and the time of year.
08:46Um, but there are, there's some level of, you know, there, of, there's a base there.
08:52Um, and then we kind of need to be able to adjust, uh, on a daily basis.
08:57And so we're now putting together these SOPs to make sure that there is some formal, you know, physical manual
09:05that people can, uh, first read when they start.
09:08And then again, it's a lot of, it's going to be more hands-on experience from there.
09:14What have you guys been doing to try to standardize the way in which things are operating?
09:20Because it sounds like in many ways you're still in that transition where everything isn't stuck in your head now,
09:26but everything is stuck in a lot of people's heads.
09:28It is.
09:29It is.
09:29Um, yeah, I mean, it's again, for me, you know, I'm actually not a naturally organized person.
09:36And so it was hiring the right people to help me do that.
09:40You know, so my director of operations, Angelina is super organized.
09:43Um, and so, and more administrative.
09:46And so together we kind of come together and, uh, kind of figured out what, uh, each, like I said,
09:54job, break it down by job and, and what each day looks like, uh, which can vary.
10:00But, um, what are their main duties, um, and how you do those duties well, and then break it down
10:06further.
10:06Again, like how do you clean a mixer?
10:08How do you work this particular oven?
10:10How do you work this particular oven?
10:12And, um, um, how to, uh, packing, you know, it's another big thing.
10:17We have people that are just packing the baked goods every day.
10:20So how do you do that properly, um, to avoid breakage, to make sure that everything remains fresh.
10:28And, uh, you know, it's, we are just putting together these, like I said, these standard operating procedure documents that
10:35just sort of break it down in layman's terms.
10:37And then, um, from there, we're able to show people, you know, in person, uh, how to, how to execute
10:45it.
10:45But it's, it's, it's, it's a challenge, you know, because like I said, a lot of the people don't speak
10:51English, uh, or they're, uh, it's minimal.
10:55And so we're teaching people from, uh, they're all walks of life, all levels of education.
11:00And we need to make sure that it's straightforward for, for everybody.
11:04Um, yeah.
11:06And how has your own experience of building all this in the early days, let's just say, you, you know,
11:14you, you risk teetering onto burnout as you were trying to build all this yourself.
11:19What has been your experience as a founder, as you have brought in these hires and then run into the
11:27next problem, which is, uh, how to train them and how to standardize things and how to make this more
11:34efficient.
11:35I mean, do you feel like you are stretched too thin still?
11:40Do you feel like you have found your place in the business and how?
11:44Mm-hmm. So for me, I always, I have this like light at the end of the tunnel theory, as
11:53I call it, um, because I worked in hotels a lot of my career where there was no light at
11:58the end of the tunnel.
11:58So I was always just working endless hours and most weekends and holidays, and there just never seemed to be
12:08that light, um, or something to look forward to.
12:11And as someone who's a really family-oriented person, um, who likes to have some work-life balance, and that,
12:18that really drives me, uh, when I started my business, I wanted to make sure everybody had that.
12:26Um, and so, you know, I always make sure I schedule, as much as I'm scheduling meetings and, you know,
12:35projects for work, it's, I'm also scheduling, um, my, my life, you know, and making sure that I always have
12:44stuff to look forward to outside of here.
12:46And that my team also has a light at the end of the tunnel. Um, and so, you know, people
12:51always ask me, why don't you have a retail store? Um, you know, you do great because we're mostly wholesale
12:57and online.
12:58And it was partly because I knew that I had flexibility and that we could have some, some more work
13:04-life balance and that most weekends I probably wouldn't have to work.
13:09Um, and my team, you know, except for when we have big projects going on, sometimes people will come in
13:14for a few hours on a weekend, whatever.
13:16For the most part, people work five days a week and most of the time they have their weekends off,
13:20which is unheard of in a hospitality-based business.
13:23And so, um, I, I, that's part of our culture that I think has been so important, um, through and
13:32through because people, it's, it's not easy what we do.
13:35I would say it's not easy bake oven. It's high volume business. It's really physical. Um, it's super demanding on
13:43the day to day and you barely, you have a 30 minute break and beyond that you're, you're running.
13:47Um, but there's always that light at the end of the tunnel. And so that's something that was really important
13:53to me, um, when I was doing this, that no matter how much work we had or I had that
14:01I would make sure I scheduled that personal time because it motivated me and it would encourage me to keep
14:08going in the business as well.
14:09You know, what you're reminding me of is a framework that I picked up from a woman named Dr. Taryn
14:15Stayskull and, uh, she's a, uh, sort of expert on resilience and avoiding burnout.
14:21And she said that at all times we should be thinking about a short, medium and long-term thing that
14:28we can schedule to look forward to.
14:30So the short-term thing could just be today. I will take a walk today. I will have coffee with
14:36a friend.
14:36And then the medium term thing is you get, you get tickets to a concert a couple of months from
14:43now. And it's just, it's just a nice thing to look forward to.
14:45And then of course the long-term is some larger vacation or some kind of bigger life event and that
14:51we should always be mindful of having these things because otherwise you're right.
14:55The work can feel totally endless and it's not really clear why you are doing it or when it is
15:03supposed to stop.
15:04And if we, you watch runners, I love these clips of people who are at the last, I don't know,
15:16500 feet of a marathon and you can see suddenly they get this energy burst and they are just charging
15:24to the end.
15:25And you can only find that energy inside of you when you see a finish line because otherwise there's no,
15:32your body will literally not produce that energy because you will exhaust yourself.
15:36So you don't know how to pace yourself and you don't know where the end point is and you feel
15:40lost.
15:40So what I'm hearing from you is scheduling these things that seem really small, but are actually the rejuvenating elements
15:49that keep you going.
15:51And I'm wondering what that looks like for you. How are you scheduling them?
15:53Do you have a system for them? What kinds of things are you scheduling? How do you think about this?
15:59Well, in the workplace, I was just reminded that, you know, we, every Friday we do family meal.
16:06So yes, that's onsite, you know, at the bakery, but I personally, or my, one of my other managers, we
16:13will cook a beautiful meal for everybody at the bakery.
16:16Um, and I really like, it's not just throwing, you know, some, whatever, like something basic, like today we made
16:24shrimp and Caesar salad and garlic bread and all this stuff.
16:27And we, I really treat them. And even though my team now is 38 people and it's fairly costly for
16:32me on a weekly basis, it's something I'll never stop because again, it's, you worked so hard all week.
16:37And now it's Friday, you know, you can have that beautiful meal. We could all sit down together, eat, talk.
16:44Um, and I think it's those little things that make a huge difference.
16:48And yeah, it's money out of my pocket, but it's money very well spent. Um, and then in my personal
16:55life, you know, it's, it's doing the things I love and seeing the people that I love.
16:59So always making plans. I mean, now I'm at the age where all my friends are having children, including myself,
17:04I'm pregnant. So that's another story. Um, but you know, we're saying, okay, every month, let's try to get a
17:11dinner on the calendar.
17:12Let's get a brunch on the calendar, something like that, where we plan it in advance, we make the reservation
17:18and we, we try our best to keep it. And, um, those things are just so important. And then it's
17:24just like health and wellness, you know, even though I'm so busy, people don't even believe me when I say,
17:30I usually exercise about five times a week, you know, even 45 minutes having that time, um, to myself and
17:39to just exercise and, um, and just,
17:42keep my mind, body and soul healthy is, is really important. Um, but really it's just scheduling events and dinners
17:50and simple things with family and friends that are, are super motivating for me. And, and that's, that's what I
17:57live for.
17:58Yeah, that's awesome. Hey, so Danielle, tell me, uh, for a moment about the scone queen bakes, your new cookbook.
18:04Yes. So, uh, scone queen bakes is 100 sweet focused baking recipes, many of which are recipes that are, were
18:13a secret, actually still pretty much a secret until it comes out on Tuesday. Um, but, uh, there are recipes
18:19that I thought I would take to the grave, you know, including my famous scone recipe that I developed when
18:25I was just 13 years old out of my parents' home.
18:29And, uh, at 13, I started selling them locally in my town and it sort of took off and started
18:36to grow. And I always knew that I wanted to build a bigger business around it. You know, I went
18:43to college and had some other jobs in the interim and then finally was able to, to do it now
18:48full time. And it's just grown so much, but I'm, I'm sharing some of those secret recipes, the scones, some
18:53of our famous muffins from the bakery, cookies, and then family recipes.
18:57So my grandmother, Rosemary, uh, who was an amazing home baker. She taught me how to bake from the time
19:04I was maybe three years old. And some of her famous recipes and family recipes that have been passed down
19:10even to her for over a hundred years are in the book. So, um, it's really about family. It's about
19:17also entrepreneurship and my business journey, uh, as well as nostalgia.
19:22I mean, I'm a nineties kid. So there's a lot of really great, uh, nineties inspired nostalgic recipes from like
19:29a cinnamon sugar pretzel that reminds you of Auntie Anne's in the mall to, um, to like a funfetti scone
19:35that's reminiscent of, you know, like a Dunkaroo or, or a funfetti cake. So all those fun flavors. And yeah,
19:42I'm really excited to get it out into the world and see what everybody makes.
19:47That, well, as a fellow nineties kid, that sounds really fun. Uh, okay. Final question, which your answer just made
19:53me think of, which is tell me about your evolution from wanting to keep a recipe secret to being open
19:59with putting it out there.
20:01Yeah. I mean, I was scared to give it away because like I said, I've been making them since I
20:07was a kid. And, um, I grew this business based around that scone initially. And, uh, I, in the beginning
20:14I didn't have as many customers. So it, things felt sort of fragile, like anybody, another big company could just
20:20get my recipe and then replicate it. And that's it. Um, but as we grew, you know, now we have
20:27300 plus wholesale customers. Um,
20:31and I just felt like a, it took me six plus years to get the business where it is now
20:40and doing the scale that we do it. That's not easy to replicate, but more it's about the relationships. You
20:46know, I have these relationships with my customers, um, where I feel like they can really count on me and
20:52my colleagues. Um, and it's more than just a great product. It's the people buy people and they trust me.
21:00They trust my business.
21:01They know that I'm, um, I'm also, you know, trying to make their business as successful as possible. Um, I
21:09feel like I'm super communicative and, you know, I come from a front of house background. So that's always really
21:15in me. And, uh, I feel like people really feel taken care of by me and my team, which is
21:23historically not something I think that wholesale bakeries, uh, are, are like, because there are these family businesses that are
21:30super old.
21:31They got passed down from their great grandpa and they're just sort of in it. And they're just about the
21:35volume and they're cranking out muffins and they don't care about the people. I'm, I'm really checking in with my
21:41customers as much as possible, building those relationships, sustaining those relationships. Um, and so that's what I feel like I
21:48have to be confident in that those customers are going to be loyal to me. Um, and also, you know,
21:54for me, food was always about community.
21:56My grandmother, like I said, taught me how to bake. I'm from a big Italian family. Food always brought us
22:01together. It built relationships, um, and created such a strong family dynamic for me. And so that's also what it
22:10was about. You know, it was about these recipes, um, having people be able to make them with their family
22:17and, and build, you know, community and, and memories around this food is just, I feel like what I'm so
22:23passionate about.
22:24So it felt like it was time to, uh, to, uh, to do it.
22:28Well, that's, that's really great, Danielle. You know, what I hope entrepreneurs hear from that aside from go pick up
22:32the scone queen bakes is what you're really saying. There is that.
22:37That the product is not the moat as great as the product is you, the founder are the moat. And
22:45what a funny tension that is, as we think back about this conversation, where we're talking about how to take
22:53you, the founder, the visionary in a business, and then scale you out because there's only so much of you.
23:02And how in the end, also you still are the product, aren't you? And you still are the thing that
23:09drives the business, which means that it is ever more important to make sure that you can take as much
23:15off of your plate as possible so that you can focus on being healthy, on being there, on building relationships.
23:21You, Danielle, cannot build great relationships if you're stuck making scones all day. You need to be out there making
23:28the connections with the client so that they know that they trust you.
23:32They love the scones, but they trust you. And that is really the formula for great success.
23:37So, Danielle, again, the book is called The Scone Queen Bakes. The business is the hungry gnome. I was going
23:45to say the happy gnome, but it's not the happy gnome. But a happy gnome, too, for the hungry gnome.
23:51Danielle, this has been so great. Thanks for joining me on Problem Solves.
23:53Thank you so much, Jason. Hope everyone enjoys the book.
Comments