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Dragons Den - Season 23 - Episode 07
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00:02the doors to the den are open for business the place where fortunes are made and futures are
00:09forged but this time the game has changed a fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things
00:18up and steal the deals joining them tonight i'm jenny meek i'm a serial entrepreneur i'm currently
00:27the co-founder and ceo of refi beauty jenna welcome back to the den no thank you for having me
00:33back i'm
00:33excited for today when i look in the eyes of an entrepreneur there is literally one thing i'm
00:38looking for it's their belief that their idea is going to succeed i can see in people's eyes if
00:43they're lying to me i know exactly what i can bring to a business so if there's a fight for
00:47an
00:47investment i will be absolutely fighting for it i love disagreeing with the dragons i really really
00:52do i am not scared of any of the dragons if anything they should be scared of me
01:07my name is laura and i'm from northern ireland my business is all about oats
01:15instant oats
01:17instant oats
01:18instant oats
01:18instant oats
01:18instant oats
01:18instant oats
01:19yeah but they're kind of exist
01:22yeah so the dragons i'm looking for investment from would be steven bartlett he would be really
01:32helpful with building that community brand which is what we aim to do at okul
01:50hello dragons my name's laura and i'm the founder of oatco superfuel today i'm here to seek an
01:57investment of 50 000 pounds in return for a five percent share of my business leading an active lifestyle
02:04and being a busy mum i found myself seeking nutritious convenience solutions and i was
02:10disappointed as to what was available on shelves this sparked the passion of me to create oatco
02:15superfuel currently in our range we have our just add milk overnight oat pouches our ready to
02:22eat overnight oats and our small bites with big energy super bites and at oatco we aim to fuel the
02:29every day whether it's a school run a busy day in the office or a gym workout we are currently
02:35delivering to a strong community of customers through our shopify website nationwide as well
02:40as being stocked in over 150 retail stores and in the past seven months we've did 200k in sales with
02:47a 60 gross margin and 28 000 in net profit currently the market is more protein focused but we aim
02:56to
02:56disrupt the food to go market with natural energy that oats can provide and we've got both excuse the
03:03pun now i've got some samples of our just add milk pouches for you to try and i'd love for
03:09you to try them
03:13a range of oat based food products is the offering from laura murphy that's what's that one that's a
03:20vanilla chocolate chip yeah thank you she's asking for 50 000 pounds in exchange for a five percent
03:27stake in her business how much protein is in your original so we're around six grams so it's just the
03:33natural energy however the other three we've added plant-based protein laura claims her oats stand out
03:41from the crowd you will notice under your chairs as well there's also some other products but in a
03:47sector packed with healthy promises peter jones is keen to know what makes this offering more than
03:54just a mouthful of marketing laura hi hello um so it's basically oats with bits in it to
04:07give you a super fuel is it so is it was it just protein or no so give me the
04:14so contents we aim to
04:17be different so how we feel at the moment is everything is protein lead however we want to
04:22focus on the natural energy from the oats okay and in what way is this different is anybody else doing
04:29this
04:30so i suppose it's difficult to say because we have three different products so there is three
04:36different competitors depending on which one we look at in particular in terms of the pouch product
04:41our point of difference is you actually prepare that in the pouch you can reseal take it with you
04:48and so that is the usp of the pouch product alone okay laura yeah your balls are absolutely banging thank
04:58you
04:58um when something tastes that good i worry that it's not good for my health yeah and i was looking
05:06at the nutritional information on on this packet but also on the on the balls as well
05:11are those the best balls you've ever had that is so good
05:16it's really good thank you so much that's got to be like you say that's such a good point it's
05:19got
05:19to be bad for you yeah well some of the flavors are slightly more on the indulgent side
05:25but we're mindful of that and we're trying to appeal to that target consumer that still wants
05:30us to taste good but is mindful of their health on the balls it says there's uh 20 grams of
05:37sugar per
05:37100 grams yeah it is something we're definitely mindful about and we've had conversations recently
05:42on how we can improve and in our new product development we are taking that on board and 100
05:48trying to make them as well-rounded as possible okay laura hi gotta tell you um yes they're high
05:57sugar but they're delicious thank you so much um so how much are they selling for um the pot you're
06:04holding retails for 3.79 okay um and i've seen the overnight oats in tubs but i don't think i've
06:12seen
06:12the this on top is that yours that's our usp yeah okay so that makes it quite unique and yeah
06:17but if
06:18i was buying a sort of or standard overnight oats yeah what would that cost me um they would retail
06:25probably around the 2.99 three pound mark okay and what about your retailers you've got 150 stores who
06:32are they so we're mainly direct to store and it's a mix of spars centras apple greens is a big
06:38customer
06:38to us all based in northern ireland and this week we're actually launching into tesco as well our
06:44first tesco northern ireland or tesco northern ireland okay and do you have any um stores in the rest of
06:50the
06:50uk um not as of yet okay thank you laura hi hello um i'm probably your customer here and i
07:01think that's
07:01what makes me quite different to the rest of dragons because i'm not super educated around kind of what i
07:06need to put into my body like i look at these packaging the first thing i look at is calories
07:10because that's the world i've been brought up in i don't understand the rest so as a customer
07:15explain to me why i need your product so it's something substantial that you can eat and i eat
07:21it every morning and being a busy mom as well like it it keeps me going throughout the day okay
07:28and then
07:28what is it you're looking for in a dragon to help with this business yeah so um like i want
07:34okko to be
07:35a household name in many regions particularly in the uk and ireland and i think with the dragon on
07:40board it gives me that platform to help achieve that okay i'm going to tell you where i am
07:49i mean oats are a superfood yeah they're incredibly good for your heart yeah um you know control your
07:56cholesterol levels yeah so so i think the oat story is very very strong and i tell you what you've
08:03done
08:03really well this is like one of the most hotly contested markets if you go in anywhere there are
08:08loads of blinking protein balls and energy balls so to actually stand out in that and that is absolutely
08:15delicious too delicious scarily delicious exactly but i i meant to have just one little nibble i've been
08:23back in three times um so um so so much to like about this business but there's a problem and
08:34it's the sugar
08:38okay um i wouldn't eat that because of the high content yeah now i know i'm purist but the direction
08:47of
08:47travel is is against sugar so i'm really sorry i won't be investing no problem and i am really sorry
08:54i won't be investing but i'm out
09:01laura you are fantastic
09:05um but this is just a market that i'm i'm just not happy to invest in at the moment i
09:10think it's
09:10hyper competitive and you're going to struggle with this at the moment so i'm going to say that i'm out
09:20laura i'll tell you where i'm at i think you're amazing you're so investable there's a lot of work to
09:27do with actually defining the purpose and that kind of vision like i know you want to own the natural
09:32energy market but that's not a brand purpose that's what just that's i'm like why why like
09:37i still need to understand why what is natural energy why do i need it and i think that needs
09:42to
09:42be laser focused and i feel like i could offer so much help in terms of that in terms of
09:47the branding
09:48in terms of the lifestyle in terms of the persona i don't know the food market and that's
09:53just me being completely transparent at all
10:00so i am going to make you an offer but it's a bit of a wild card because there isn't
10:06any other
10:06offers yet you asked for 50 000 pounds for five percent i'll offer you half of the money for seven
10:15and a half percent i'd want to share with someone else that actually understands the food market because
10:20i know what i can bring it's fantastic yeah and you're a fantastic entrepreneur once you can get
10:24the branding spot on we can make it a cool on trend product we can get the persona perfect
10:29but i want that help at the other side of the retail side as well perfect thank you very much
11:00thank you very much
11:07um laura i am i am such a big fan of you thank you um i have uh quite a
11:16lot of experience now in
11:17this industry um have a brand that came into the den that's making tens of millions now just a couple
11:23of years from retail and actually one of the most useful things i could do is to sit you in
11:28a room with
11:29one of the investments i've made who exploded in the uk market and really understand how they did that
11:37yes um so i'm going to make you an offer because i think you're fantastic
11:44i'll offer you all of the money for um
11:5517.5 of the business
12:00thank you very much
12:04so thank you so much firstly for all of the offers that it means a lot um so i suppose
12:11just
12:11stephen i did have a cap of 15 percent in my head and so i suppose if you had the
12:18money paid back
12:19within sort of a two-year period would you drop to 10 percent to 10 percent
12:32considering i came in for five percent
12:37um i i um i'm not the biggest fan in the world of the deals that that drop because it's
12:43almost like
12:43punishment for success in a weird way i suppose 15 percent is what i said was was my cap and
12:50that's what i'm struggling with okay
12:55i'll do 15 percent you do 15 i'll do 15 percent
13:00well i'd love to accept your offer thank you thank you so much well done thank you so much
13:07i can't wait to work thank you victory for laura after tough negotiations she secures stephen bartlett's
13:19backing her oat empire is officially expanding
13:28breathe i'm still catching my breath
13:32amazing i couldn't have asked for it to go better really i'm delighted
13:37that's a great entrepreneur to invest in yeah she was so good so good so so excellent and it is
13:43serendipitous you didn't you did look the same
13:48you're so good
13:48you're so good
13:48you're so good
14:02It's intimidating photographs.
14:04Like I kiss my helmet.
14:06My name's John O'Donnell and I'm joined today with my son Jamie.
14:11And we've created Screwcaddy.
14:15DIY.
14:17Definitely DIY.
14:18Definitely DIY.
14:20I could do with a few more DIY things.
14:22What have you got, Peter?
14:24I've got a toolkit.
14:26You've got a toolkit?
14:27What's the last DIY you did, Peter?
14:30I think I've hung her picture up.
14:34I believe Deborah would show the most interest in her product.
14:38Just in the sector that it's in, I feel like it would perk her interest the most.
14:42So I'm definitely confident and ready to go.
14:53Hi, Dragons.
14:54My name's John O'Donnell and I'm joined today with my son Jamie.
14:58And we form part of the family team who created Screwcaddy.
15:04Today we are looking for a £50,000 investment for a 40% stake in our business.
15:10In 2020 during lockdown, me and my mum were doing various DIY projects in and around our home.
15:17One of these projects in particular involved screwing a bracket to a fence for a hanging flower basket.
15:23Through this we had many deflected screws and it caused several near-miss injuries.
15:28So we went out to see if there was a product on the market that could solve our issue.
15:33But we struggled to find anything to solve our solution.
15:35So as a family, we had a go at trying to create up a product of our own.
15:39So dragging is a traditional method for uncertain screws as you secure the screw with your fingers while also trying
15:47to handle a power tool.
15:49Which is particularly difficult and can cause possible injuries.
15:54However, if you look at our product, you can see that my fingers are away from the screw.
15:59And it allows the DIYer to focus purely on the power drill.
16:07As the screw head comes down, it makes contact with the angled top side of the Screwcaddy.
16:12Screwcaddy pops off.
16:18And the job's complete.
16:20We were introduced to a third party who helped us a lot during the development stages of the product.
16:26And we now have a manufacturing site here in the UK.
16:30Screwcaddy is patent pending.
16:32And we are looking for that dragon or dragons who can ultimately put a screwcaddy in every DIYer's toolbox.
16:40If you would like to come up, the wood we have actually brought in is very, very hard.
16:45So just to make you aware, you need to give it some welly to get it in.
16:51A lockdown invention that takes the pain out of drilling is the offering from John and Jamie O'Donnell.
17:00So your fingers go to the side?
17:02Yeah, no, I've got that. I'm just doing that while I...
17:04OK. All the way down.
17:07The inventive father and son duo are seeking an investment of £50,000 in return for a 40% share
17:15in their business.
17:17Yeah, and then pull it off.
17:20OK.
17:21That's good.
17:23The product gets a nod of approval from the DIY doyen of the den, Deborah Meaden.
17:29But it's Tuka Suleiman who's the first to drill down into the potential of the business.
17:39John and Jamie, just so you know, I've got no investments in DIY.
17:44This could be my first.
17:47So, have you shown this to any major retailers?
17:53Yes. So, the very first people we contacted was GML.
17:58And they asked for costs and samples for up to £750,000.
18:02We have been to B&Q and they've had samples.
18:07So we have had a lot of interest, but it's converting the interest to sales.
18:13It's been a blocker.
18:15Have you turned over anything?
18:19£80.
18:21£80.
18:22Yes.
18:22Right.
18:23So, £80 turnover.
18:25But I can see you want to give away 40% of the business.
18:29Yes.
18:30So, you really want to entice a dragon.
18:33Yes.
18:36Jamie, John.
18:38When I was watching Deborah have a go at it, it still looked quite dangerous to me.
18:45I think because this screw, when put in the biggest hole here, it's still really about five millimetres away from
18:50your finger still.
18:51Which means it could still, you know, hit the edge of the plastic and then hit your finger.
18:57So, I just wanted to see if you had a response on that point.
19:00Yeah.
19:01I take your point about the apertures at the side of screw caddy.
19:08You are a couple of millimetres away.
19:09Do you agree with that? Because I don't.
19:12Sorry?
19:13Do you agree with that? I mean, it's your product and I'm about to defend it for you.
19:17Is there another answer to that?
19:21He agrees with it.
19:24So, the danger is the wobble.
19:27Mm-hmm.
19:28This stops the wobble.
19:30OK.
19:31So, it's not the proximity to your thumb.
19:34It's the fact that if the screw head wobbles to one side...
19:38Yeah.
19:38..then you're in danger. That's holding it solid.
19:42Is that what you meant to say?
19:43Yes, sorry.
19:44That's what he meant to say.
19:46My other point was around the combination of metal and plastic.
19:51So, what I did is I took the screw in and out over and over again.
19:55Yeah.
19:56Repeatedly like this.
19:57Yeah.
19:57And the plastic has worn off, so now it basically doesn't fit anymore.
20:02So, what the third party who done the development work with us,
20:07they tried to destroy it with the roughest screws they could find.
20:11They worked out.
20:12If you were using it the same aperture, the same size,
20:15you'd be talking and you'd get about 35 screws.
20:18So, one is...
20:1935 screws?
20:20Yeah.
20:22And how much does this cost?
20:24$499.
20:25Okay.
20:26The equation is not great there, being able to do 30 screws before it breaks.
20:30And actually, I think the consumer will have a bigger expectation of longevity from the product.
20:36My other question was about the percentage.
20:39What's the current shareholding between you guys?
20:43There's three shareholders.
20:44It's me, my wife and Jamie.
20:46And it's just a third share each.
20:48Okay.
20:48Which means that the Dragon would be the major shareholder.
20:51Yeah, we would change our structure, obviously, to make it a 60-40 spot.
20:57Keep it simple.
21:00Guys, can I ask you, what's your patentable step?
21:04What's your claim?
21:06It's the way it holds the screw and it's the way it releases the screw.
21:09It's the angled edge and it's the transfer of that vertical force to a horizontal force that forces the screw
21:16caddy off.
21:17Okay.
21:17So, it is quite specific as to why this works and what you're telling me is it wouldn't work if
21:23you didn't have those angles right.
21:25You've obviously been through lots of iterations.
21:28Yeah.
21:28Okay.
21:32John, Jamie.
21:33Hi.
21:34Hi.
21:36I think it looks really good.
21:37I think it does what you said it was supposed to do on the tin.
21:43But I think it's really expensive at five pounds.
21:46You know, you can get a pack of screws for five quid and you're selling your product that holds the
21:51screws for the same price.
21:52So, I just wonder whether this becomes like a really considered purchase so I don't really want to buy and
21:58spend five quid on it.
22:00Or is this something that, frankly, what you should really do is perhaps license this to the people that put
22:07these screw packs together.
22:09And this could be a product that you see in the pack as a giveaway.
22:13Yeah, adding it on to buying a bag of screws was something that we considered right at the very start.
22:19It's interesting though because I don't think it's attached to the screw.
22:22I think it's attached to the drill.
22:24The dangerous bit in this whole process is the drill.
22:26Yeah.
22:27And the trouble is this product feels very expensive against a pack of screws.
22:31Yeah.
22:31It doesn't feel at all expensive against a drill.
22:38John, Jamie, I do think the price is probably an issue.
22:45And to me it feels like you would like a dragon to come in and run the business for you.
22:53And I say that because you've not had any luck yet with sales and you're willing to offer the dragon
22:57the opportunity to be the single biggest shareholder in the business effectively.
23:01And that comes with an obligation that I don't feel comfortable meeting.
23:06So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
23:09Thanks.
23:13John and Jamie, hi.
23:14Hi.
23:15I'll just tell you where I am because I think where I'm stuck with this is given the 40%
23:20away, it's no one is going to drive this business more than you two standing there.
23:25And, like, I got 50 no's from a retailer and I think they even blocked my email address at one
23:31point because they were like, this girl is so annoying.
23:34But I was delusional.
23:36And you have to be so delusional in your product that, like, a no is like a, shh, shh, shh,
23:42right, I'll try another way.
23:44I'll try another way.
23:45And I'm just not feeling that.
23:47So that's kind of where I'm at and I can only get behind something that you need to be more
23:52delusional than me on this and right now there's no delusional here.
23:56So, well done.
23:57But I am out.
24:04Guys, to try and sell this product on its own will cost you a lot of money.
24:09Yeah.
24:11You could make it into a set.
24:13Somebody comes in, they want to buy that screw, it's already in the packet and that's Peter's idea.
24:19I won't take it away from him.
24:21But I would say this, I'm not your right dragon for this.
24:25So I'm going to say that I'm out and I wish you all the best.
24:28Thanks to you.
24:32John, Jamie, I really think it's genius that you came in and offered 40%.
24:40Because you want to make it attractive for a dragon.
24:43Yeah.
24:43So as a dragon that really likes opportunity and never likes to miss out.
24:48And bear in mind there is one dragon here that's had quite a good little bit of success with DIY.
24:54I'm just going to pause for a moment and reflect.
25:09So somebody stood in here about 10 years ago, a couple stood in here, Jenny and Martin, and they had
25:17a genius DIY product.
25:20And Martin said, I'm an inventor.
25:22I haven't got a clue about business.
25:24But I'm an inventor and I know it works and it's brilliant.
25:27That was Marksman Pence.
25:29They didn't know the numbers.
25:31They haven't talked to the right people.
25:35But there was something about them and there was something about their product.
25:38And apart from anything else, I wanted to find out whether or not they really had something.
25:45And that product now we sell millions of.
25:55So I'm going to make you an offer.
25:59Thank you very much.
26:03We haven't heard it yet.
26:07So you asked for £50,000 for 40% of the business.
26:12Yeah.
26:12I'm going to offer you all of the money.
26:17And I want 30% of the business.
26:20Whoa.
26:24Wow.
26:25Because it's your business.
26:26And I don't want to be the majority shareholder.
26:35So...
26:38I think you guys are...
26:39You're really great.
26:41I think you've got a really good idea.
26:43It's really neat.
26:46And I think that you've got the perfect dragon for this.
26:51So I'm not going to make you an offer and say that I'm out.
26:54But it'll be interesting when you reflect over there what your decision is.
27:01Do we need to reflect?
27:02Don't think so.
27:05We would love to accept your offer.
27:07Well done.
27:09Excellent.
27:09Well done, guys.
27:10Well done, you guys.
27:12Great.
27:13Success for the father and son team.
27:15Thank you very much.
27:16John, thank you very much.
27:18Well done.
27:19Can you be a little bit more excited?
27:21Seriously, I'm more excited than you at the moment.
27:23I'll be jumping.
27:24Come on, a little bit of a...
27:26Yeah, thank you.
27:27Thanks very much.
27:29The DIY duo have secured their dream dragon and managed to achieve that rare feat of leaving
27:36the den, having given away less equity than they offered.
27:43I'm all over the moon that I've got Deborah in the team. I can't believe it. It's absolutely amazing.
27:48They seemed in shock.
27:52That was like, yeah, thanks.
27:57I can't wait to film him.
27:58I'm so proud of my dad because to see the whole journey come together like this is just unbelievable.
28:12Unbelievable.
28:16Well, here we are. Right then. The den.
28:19My name is Fred Parry and I'm from London.
28:22Look at this thing.
28:23I can't imagine many people who have been dressed as a chicken in the den.
28:28I am wearing a chicken costume because I built a game where someone hides in a chicken costume.
28:33And I thought it was only right to put me in it today.
28:38The dragons are probably going to guess we're a birthday party, fancy dress thing.
28:44They're going to think someone's obsessed with chickens probably.
28:49Children's entertainer.
28:50Ah.
28:54Honestly is a really good chicken.
28:56Do you know what? It's good to know you have a plan B sometimes in life.
28:59In life, you should always have a plan B.
29:04Uh, I'm nervous.
29:06This chicken costume seals in all the heat.
29:09I'm going to be roasted in that den.
29:12Roasted chicken.
29:18One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine.
29:26Ten.
29:50I don't know what to do now.
29:51I was back to a board and then I thought maybe not.
29:55Oh, please.
29:57Please.
29:58Wow.
29:59Scary.
30:01Please.
30:06Hello dragons.
30:07My name is Fred and I'm asking for £50,000 in exchange for 10% of my business, Chicken Rush.
30:13We are a real world GPS powered game of hide and seek.
30:16Teams race to find someone hiding in a pub or bar dressed as a chicken and use our app as
30:23a live radar.
30:24Along the way, they complete silly challenges, compete for points and submit photos and videos as proof.
30:30It's team based, tech driven and utterly ridiculous.
30:34In year one, we turned over £55,000.
30:37In year two, we forecast £164,000.
30:41We've had over 7,000 players across 50 countries with no full time staff.
30:46We've had over 5 million views on social media with barely any marketing spend.
30:51I built the platform myself, the tracking, the booking system, the scoring, the lot.
30:57It's scalable tech that can pop up in any city tomorrow.
31:01I've proven it works.
31:02Now I want it to grow.
31:04With your help, we can achieve global chicken domination.
31:09A real world game of hide and seek with a tech twist.
31:13Using GPS and a custom built app, Fred Parry is reinventing outdoor play for the digital age.
31:24The entrepreneur is seeking an investment of £50,000.
31:29Terrifying.
31:30In exchange for a 10% share in his feathered venture.
31:35But will the dragons flock to the opportunity or cross the road to avoid it?
31:45Fred, I can't work out whether you're looking for an investment
31:49or you're looking for a dragon to dress up as a chicken.
31:53I'm very much looking for investment to grow the game.
31:56Most of our games at the moment are team building games.
31:59So someone dresses up as a chicken, often the boss of a company perhaps,
32:04and hides.
32:05Okay.
32:06So I'm trying to work out what this business is.
32:11It's hide and seek for adults.
32:13So one person hides, a circle appears on a map that gradually shrinks around their location.
32:19And then there's also challenges teams do while they're playing the game.
32:22So it's not just about finding the chicken, but you get 100 points for finding the chicken first.
32:28Okay. So I want to know about you. What's your background?
32:33Yeah.
32:34You built this yourself. I just want to know, who am I invested in?
32:38Which chicken am I going to invest in?
32:39Yeah, from the beginning, I was building online learning games for kids.
32:43But over time, and I think a lot of people now who are software developers find this,
32:49they're not meeting people on the other side.
32:51They're not seeing how their tech is used.
32:53So I had a bit of a disillusionment with that.
32:56So I wanted to prove that I can build one bit of tech where I know that people were enjoying
33:02using it.
33:03Meeting the people, playing the game.
33:04This was like the perfect example and perfect case study for me being able to do it.
33:08And then we hosted a public dating event for 40 singles to get it off the ground, which is a
33:14bit strange.
33:15Like there's one thing, a chicken chasing game, and then there's also a date involved with it.
33:19Well, people want to be distracted by the fact that they're on a first date.
33:22So it turns out our dating events became really popular and we had a waitlist of over 2,000 singles
33:27in London.
33:28Hold on. Single people wanted to come and play this game to meet somebody else.
33:34People have found love while hunting chickens, yeah.
33:39Right. So let's look at the serious part of this situation, the business part.
33:45So how do you monetize this? How do you organize it?
33:50Yeah. Just want to know.
33:51Yeah.
33:53So there's two types.
33:55You get the tech and you play with your friends for £15 per person in a team building setting or
34:01just for fun.
34:02Or sometimes with large companies, they've got a big budget, they just want to hassle free someone to come here,
34:08hand over a chicken costume, explain the rules, and then you play the same game.
34:13Fred, how does this get big? What does big mean to you?
34:23Big is getting into definitely at least every city in the UK as well as any city which has enough
34:31hiding spots in them.
34:33And in terms of quantifying big, what does that look like?
34:37The number I've had in my head is 100 games a day.
34:40And if you did 100 a day, what does that look like in terms of revenue?
34:44Um, it's 30 grand revenue.
34:48A day? Yeah.
34:49Okay.
34:52Fred, hi.
34:53Hello, Deborah.
34:54Have you forgotten by now that you're dressed as a chicken?
34:57Er, you do start to if you wear it enough times.
35:02Okay, so what next?
35:05I mean, you know, it's a cool, funny, eye-catching idea.
35:11Yeah.
35:12And I can imagine my corporates who were desperate to find the next thing
35:16and not do the old paintballing thing for corporate events.
35:21So I can imagine them thinking, oh, that looks new and different.
35:24But if you're really going to leverage this business,
35:26you need to become the place to look to the innovative ways of building teams, don't you?
35:32Yeah.
35:33So what next? What's your plans?
35:36At the moment, my core focus is just to grow outside of London.
35:39With your investment, though, it's about scaling the casual games.
35:43So birthdays, stags and hen do's.
35:46Easter.
35:46Easter, turkey hunt for Christmas.
35:49Yeah, yeah.
35:49All of these things.
35:50But at the moment, it's just been me working on this.
35:53So I just had to focus on one small thing at a time.
35:57Okay, so you're on your own at the moment.
35:59Yeah.
35:59Are you just going to keep moving yourself around the country?
36:02For the next year, that would be our main focus.
36:05It's you?
36:06Yeah.
36:06But we'd have part-time help brought in for each event.
36:12Fred, hi.
36:13Hi.
36:13I love adding the crazy into business.
36:16But then, on the flip side, I hate organised fun.
36:20Yeah.
36:21I love the dating idea.
36:23I think that's genius.
36:24But I think where you're almost missing that trick is actually making this a thing before you pigeonhole it into
36:31the corporate world, into the dating world.
36:33And it's like, if that wasn't on Invent Bright in London, and you've got everyone in London, like, hey, do
36:39you want to go to Pilates today?
36:40Do you want to go and get coffee?
36:42Or do you want to go and do this crazy thing I just saw called Chicken Rush?
36:44Yeah.
36:44Like, you get everyone doing it.
36:46Yeah.
36:47And then you pigeonhole it into corporate, dating, whatever you want.
36:51And it's like, yeah, how do we make this bigger?
36:55And how many people come back?
36:57So once they've done Chicken Rush, do they then delete the app?
37:00Or do they stay on?
37:01Do they do another one?
37:02Like, what?
37:03Yeah.
37:03So, as far as numbers are concerned, 5% in year one of our corporates came back.
37:10And then 10% of the people that came to one of our events came back.
37:14Some have played over five times.
37:28I'm like, I'm really, I'm really into businesses that are able to bring people into the real world.
37:34Yeah.
37:34And find ways for them to connect.
37:37And especially businesses that are a platform to scale that globally.
37:42So what am I investing in here?
37:43Am I investing in a platform that has scale?
37:46That's, that's really the pitch that I think really would have swung me.
37:50Is something like that.
37:51We have built that events platform in the background.
37:53So a huge part of it is for all our dating events.
37:56The thing you pitched to me today was a chicken game.
37:59Where people hide in pubs.
38:01So.
38:01True.
38:03If it sounded different, if it started with the big picture of the macro, loneliness epidemic.
38:08People despairing at dating apps, letting them down.
38:11So we're building the platform for social, competitive, in real life games.
38:16That was my pitch.
38:16I would have been like, ooh, here we go.
38:18That was my pitch.
38:18I rewrote that on Sunday.
38:19But then I got worried that you wouldn't understand what the game was.
38:22So the whole pitch was, uh, all around us, pubs are closing.
38:27There is a loneliness epidemic.
38:29That was the pitch.
38:30That was the pitch.
38:30The whole thing.
38:31That was the pitch.
38:31The key to pitching for me is you start with the why.
38:36Pubs are closed.
38:37Loneliness epidemic.
38:37I would have been nodding like a dog.
38:39Yes, yes, yes.
38:40And then you build it up and say, so.
38:41That was our whole story.
38:42We've made this.
38:42And I go, ooh, interesting.
38:44But what you did is you started with the what?
38:45You started with the chickens hide in pubs.
38:47And I'm like, ugh.
38:49My original pitch was just that exact story.
38:52It might be the story, but it's not the business either that you have.
38:56That's the difference, is it?
38:57Well, it is.
38:58That's not.
38:59This is one.
39:00This is a chicken game with a GPS tracking device.
39:03Yeah.
39:04We get hundreds of people outside interacting.
39:08The whole aim and ethos of this is just try and get people outside
39:12and playing and meeting new people.
39:15That's why I set it up anyway.
39:17Yeah.
39:17Fred, I think it's great.
39:19I think that it's a tough one to invest in.
39:24It really is.
39:27And sadly, I'm going to say that I'm out.
39:29But good luck to you.
39:31Thank you, Peter.
39:37I do think you need an investor, but I think it's going to be tough for you
39:41to get an investor based on what your pitch was today.
39:44Okay.
39:44The chicken thing.
39:45Because it's really, really fun.
39:47But it's also quite distracting in a way where an investor is trying to
39:51understand the potential and the scale of this business.
39:55The way that you came in with the chickens and Deborah Meaden and Peter Jones' face.
40:00I mean, that was distracting.
40:01But the whole thing kind of diverted me from the real problem you're trying to solve here,
40:05which I've managed to tease out of you, which is loneliness, connection,
40:08and bringing people together in real life in an increasingly digital world.
40:12That is it.
40:14That's an inspiring proposition.
40:17But the proposition I saw today wasn't that.
40:23So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
40:30Fred, I think you need investment because you need people around you.
40:36My issue is that I can't personally see how I can spend the time that you need
40:44in this business.
40:46So I won't be investing, I'm out.
40:49Thank you, Deborah.
40:53Fred, I'm going to tell you where I am.
40:55Hi.
40:56I'm not interested in chicken games at my age.
41:00Okay.
41:00Um, I'm going to say I'm going to go back to my little cage.
41:05Yeah.
41:05And not invest, and I'm out.
41:07Thank you, then.
41:12Hi, Fred. Hello.
41:14Um, sorry, I just panicked there.
41:16I got your name wrong.
41:16I was like, did it?
41:19No, no.
41:19I just think you're great.
41:21I think you're great, and I think you're amazing.
41:23And for me, I feel like there is something in this chicken play.
41:28But I think this needs to be blown up stronger.
41:31Make it massive, and then you cash in with corporates, with dating.
41:36Once you've made this chicken game a bigger thing,
41:40I do generally feel that if I came on board,
41:42I would just be giving you the same advice that I've kind of given.
41:46But I would love to help you in however I can,
41:48so I'm not going to be your business partner,
41:50but I can be that person to call,
41:51and this is going to be huge, and you're going to be huge.
41:54I think you need to keep going.
41:55Um, but I am out, but I wish you all the best,
41:57but I will definitely help you.
41:58Thank you. Good luck, Fred.
41:59Good luck, Fred.
42:01Cheers.
42:04Sadly for Fred, he's failed to land any of the dragons,
42:09though he has managed to secure a wingwoman in Jenna Meek.
42:14I love the idea of getting everyone out together
42:17and creating something.
42:19It just wasn't something enough.
42:23Jenna was really helpful.
42:25She gave me some advice about how to have mainstream appeal,
42:28so expect to see more chickens popping up in other cities tomorrow, maybe.
42:45I'm Rachel Williams.
42:46I'm from a small town in Lancashire in the north of England,
42:50and my business was born on the top of a mountain in the French Alps.
42:57Nice, bright packaging.
42:58Lip creams.
42:59It's a lip brand.
43:01Definitely a lip brand.
43:03It's been a long journey,
43:04and many, many people said,
43:07you'll never make it in this industry.
43:10And being a Northern girl, I kind of thought,
43:13well, I will.
43:13I'll show them.
43:14So I did.
43:16So, yeah, I feel quite proud that I got here.
43:29Hello, Dragons.
43:30I'm Rachel.
43:31I'm a physiologist, and I'm the founder of Albus & Flora,
43:35a specialist award-winning skincare brand
43:39that provides targeted support for the lips and skin around the mouth.
43:43I'm here today to ask for £50,000 in return for 15% equity in my business.
43:53Lines and wrinkles around the mouth, thinning lips,
43:58chronic dryness, cold sores, sunburn, and lip cancer
44:02affect the confidence and comfort of millions of men and women every day.
44:07UV exposure and sun damage are known to impact on these concerns.
44:13However, UV lip protection is not always used on a daily basis
44:18in people's skincare routines.
44:21We've launched two products so far,
44:23Lip Shield, which is an SPF lip balm,
44:26and Lip Facial, which is an exfoliating and plumping treatment mask.
44:31We currently provide products to 370 aesthetic clinics,
44:37spas, and beauty salons.
44:39We also supply direct to our customers via our website.
44:43To date, we have delivered £695,000 worth of accumulated turnover,
44:49and we want to develop a clinic and consumer brand
44:53that can be accessed globally.
44:57Whew.
44:58I can breathe now. Breathe.
45:01I can breathe.
45:05Products which both prettify and protect the lips
45:09are the offering from Rachel Williams.
45:12In the large square box, you've got a part of the Lip Facial,
45:15and then in the smaller boxes, you've got the SPF Lip Shield.
45:20She's looking for a £50,000 investment
45:23in return for a 15% share in her business.
45:28Can I just tell you, when you do your lipstick,
45:30you only have to put it out about that much to even,
45:32not even that much, just to fill the in. That's it.
45:37Rachel believes her targeted approach
45:39fills a gap in the ever-growing skincare market.
45:43How does it look?
45:44That looks good.
45:46But will the dragons be convinced by her pout-focused pitch?
45:54So have I got this straight that this is essentially the unique selling point of this business,
45:59is that it protects my lips from sun damage?
46:03Yes, and people don't realise how much damage you can get from daily UV.
46:09And the lip is so thin and delicate, and that means it dehydrates quite quickly.
46:14So is this the health product versus a beauty product, per se?
46:19The SPF is a lifestyle product.
46:21You know, everybody's got a pair of lips, and we need to look after them.
46:25And how is this different from a lip balm?
46:27Because it's a broad-spectrum UVA, UVB protector, so it is...
46:32What does that mean for a muggle like me, that there's nothing about UV anything?
46:35So it's going to protect you against the damage that UV rays can do,
46:39because UV would come into the skin,
46:41and it can impact on the cell's physiology and function,
46:44and sometimes that UV damage is accumulated through your lifetime.
46:50So it is like a lip sun cream, then?
46:53Yes, the lip balm is, yes.
46:55Because I put some of this lip balm on.
46:57But what's weird, this lip balm, I've got a bit tingly,
46:59and it feels like my bottom lip's going thicker.
47:03So that isn't a lip balm, so that's the advanced treatment mask.
47:07It's not a lip balm?
47:07No, so the lip balms are in the sticks.
47:10So what's that supposed to do?
47:12So the lip facial is an exfoliating and plumping treatment mask.
47:17It's plumping.
47:19So that is a product that we use.
47:21So that's why that feels like it's getting thicker.
47:23It's swollen up.
47:26Could I ask you a question?
47:27Yeah.
47:27While at least you're playing with each other?
47:29No, we're not playing, I'm just asking some very important questions.
47:32Just tell us about your qualifications in this sector.
47:36Qualifications, I've been a physiologist for many years,
47:39and supported British teams in three Olympic cycles,
47:42really looking at the impacts of environment on health and, you know, physiology.
47:49So my interest, just so you know, I own the trademark lipstick.
47:53Okay.
47:54And I'm about to go retail with it later in the year.
47:58Cool.
47:59So this is of interest.
48:00Yes, cool.
48:01Just want to make sure you've done 695,000 turnover in total.
48:05Yeah.
48:06So can you break that down so we can get an idea?
48:09So the last three years, in 2022, we did 139,000 with a net of 41,000,
48:17which obviously gave us a 29% net profit.
48:20And then in 2023, we did 143,000 turnover and 27,000 net.
48:29Mm-hmm.
48:30And then in last year, we did again 140,000 and a 15,000 net profit.
48:39Wow.
48:40So profits have been going down?
48:42Yes.
48:42Is that because of marketing?
48:43No, it's a strategic decision by me because when we had that 29% net profit,
48:50I knew that the decision to become a really specialised, focused brand,
48:55you know, really supporting the professional retailers was working.
48:59But I'm, you know, a single entrepreneur with not a huge amount of working capital.
49:05Yep.
49:06And I needed, therefore, to prepare the business to scale.
49:10So I wanted to put in foundations in the last two years to help me do that.
49:14So I've got a new office, a part-time member of staff.
49:18We launched the new product.
49:20We did a rebrand and a refresh because I wanted to make sure the image was right
49:24for both clinic, market, as well as retail.
49:30Look, you've done quite well. I mean, the product looks really great.
49:34We do have, it just so happens, an experienced expert in the den today with Jenna.
49:45My question is actually not just to you because I don't know a lot about this market,
49:48but it would be to Jenna.
49:50Are these sort of types of products widely available?
49:53Is this already out there?
49:55Yes, I guess that was... Hi, Rachel.
49:57Hi.
49:57I think that's what I'm trying to struggle with is I can probably already find something similar.
50:03Yeah.
50:03Because it's a very crowded market.
50:06I think one of the things that's confusing me a little bit is that kind of vision of where you
50:11see the brand going.
50:12So, like, is this going to be SPF? Everything will be focused around SPF?
50:16Or will it be more focused around lips? Like, how does the product range build from here?
50:22So, we've got a few collections planned. So, the SPF products are all part of the daily care range.
50:28The lip facial is also in the daily care range.
50:31There's then the targeted care range. This range will focus on supporting clients who've got inflammation,
50:37you know, when they're on acne medication.
50:40Solution-based. You're going to have a daily for everyone, a solution-based range.
50:43Yeah. And then third one would be targeting sort of 40 and upwards.
50:49Okay. So, if you had a magic wand, what beauty retailers do you see this branding? Just so I understand
50:54the vision.
50:56Yeah. So, I think the more premium end, definitely sort of Liberties, Selfridges, Space NK, Sephora.
51:03But I think for, you know, Sephora, we would need to increase, you know, our kind of digital footprint first.
51:12Do your customers love the product?
51:14Yes, they do.
51:15Do they tell people about the product?
51:17They do. I'm not very good at sharing.
51:20So, they love the product and they tell people about the product.
51:23So, why for the last three years has the revenue been stagnant?
51:29I've almost never seen numbers like this where it's almost exactly the same for three years at 140k in revenue
51:34three years in a row.
51:36Super consistent. And the reason being that I've invested in the infrastructure and the operations to get ready.
51:42And I've not been able to do that at the same time as putting money into the sales and marketing.
51:49Okay.
51:50So, one of the things investors look for in businesses when they're trying to invest is this thing called the
51:54growth profile.
51:55And the growth profile is essentially the history of the business and how it looks from a revenue or profit
52:01growth perspective.
52:02Yeah.
52:02If it's flat, it kind of suggests that the future could be flat.
52:07And I like businesses that have a good growth profile, which is a challenge a lot of entrepreneurs face.
52:12When you're a solopreneur on your own, you have decisions you have to make.
52:16It's trade-offs.
52:17And the trade-off that you made was to focus on infrastructure and those things first versus the growth profile
52:23of the business.
52:25I think it's quite important to make a different decision, which is to focus on that growth profile.
52:29Because that will give an investor the confidence that they have enough growth to get a return from the business
52:35in future.
52:36But the growth profile of the business is an amber flag for me.
52:39And I find it hard to see, based on the last three years and the current year, how an investor
52:44would get their 50k out and a multiple on the money.
52:47So, for that reason, I'm going to say that I'm out. But I wish you the very best.
52:51And Rachel, I'm going to be the same.
52:53You've created a great product.
52:56I'm struggling to see the size of the opportunity.
53:01So, sadly, I'm going to say that I'm out.
53:04But, yeah, congratulations on creating a great product.
53:12Rachel, I think you've hit a market.
53:14And you really, really know your stuff and you explain it really well.
53:18But the truth of the matter is, you are in a highly contested space.
53:22Sure.
53:22This is readily available for me and I buy it.
53:26So, I'm afraid it's not an investment for me.
53:29I'm out.
53:34Rachel, hi.
53:35Hi.
53:36I think, I mean, obviously I know what it's like to develop a beauty product.
53:40So, just please, well done.
53:43The packaging is lovely.
53:44The branding is lovely.
53:45It's really, really just stand out.
53:48I think in terms of investment, where I'm at is it's not something I feel like I want to invest
53:55in.
53:56Many because it is probably too close to my current business, but more because I can't necessarily see the bigger
54:01vision in terms of everything you want to do.
54:04Yeah.
54:05But I would like to throw you a lifeline because I do think this is a good product.
54:09I will help you get this product in front of Selfridges, Space and Care, Sephora in the UK, so that
54:15you've got that step to entry.
54:18Because you can tell how passionate you are.
54:20I'm not going to invest.
54:21I am out.
54:22Say I'm sorry, but yeah, I will help you do that step and you'll be able to take it from
54:26the rest.
54:27OK, thank you.
54:28That's an amazing offer.
54:29That's a great offer.
54:29Yeah, it's an amazing offer.
54:30Thank you so much.
54:34Rachel, you are investable, but that's not.
54:37OK.
54:38And that's where I'm torn.
54:39And I'll tell you why I'm torn.
54:42I am launching a lipstick retail concept later in the year.
54:48OK.
54:49Lip care is definitely a sector that could be included.
54:56What I'm interested in is your knowledge.
55:00And trying to think how I can kill two birds with one stone here, how you can help me with
55:05the knowledge and help you with business.
55:07Yeah?
55:08Yeah, that would be exciting.
55:09So, your offer was 50,000, 15%.
55:14Yes.
55:17I'm willing to give you the £50,000.
55:22But I would want 35%.
55:2935, obviously, is quite high for me as a brand.
55:32And I know that it's most likely going to be multiple rounds to move forward to take the brand to
55:38where I want it to go.
55:39So, that's quite challenging.
55:42Would you be prepared to reduce that offer if you got your money back?
55:47Well, if I got my money back within 12 to 18 months, down to 25%.
55:54OK.
55:56Would you be prepared to drop to 20?
56:01No.
56:0625?
56:0930%.
56:10I'll go down to 25 when I get my money back.
56:15OK.
56:17That's a fantastic offer.
56:20I would be happy to work with you, excited to work with you, and definitely happy to accept your offer.
56:25Great, great, great, great, great, great.
56:27We're going to be choosing.
56:28Yeah, we can do the work.
56:29I think so.
56:30OK.
56:31It's a win for Rachel.
56:32Thanks for all your time.
56:34Well done.
56:35She walks away with an offer of support from skincare savant Jenna Meek.
56:41But it's Tuca Suleiman who's put his money where his mouth is, securing a stake in the business.
56:48Really excited.
56:52Just fabulous to get investment from Tuca.
56:56And yeah, also absolutely lovely, you know, offer from Jenna.
57:00So I'm super grateful and humbled.
57:05How exciting.
57:07It was her that I really loved.
57:10I'm investing in her as an entrepreneur.
57:13Well, you've got an expert.
57:26The dragon's den will return later in the year.
57:29Perfect.
57:29I think this is the first time in the den there's been more females than men.
57:35I think this is what I've been looking for for a long time.
57:38I just came out of being your worst nightmare.
57:40I'm about to go back in again.
57:41You're sassy.
57:42I'm like, ooh.
57:42Go on, go sell more.
57:44Is that the way you work?
57:45Yeah.
57:45Is that what you guys do as investors?
57:47I think this is a wonderful opportunity and that's why I'd like to talk to Tony.
57:51Hello, Peter.
57:52I was hoping you'd say that.
57:54Am I happy to share with Peter?
57:55My business is to tell me I should not invest, but my heart tells me I should.
58:02You're setting us all off.
58:03Come here, mate.
58:05I'm so proud of you.
58:06Wow, Gary, you teed that up as if we were teammates.
58:09And then...
58:10That's the most guilty I've ever felt in my life.
58:12Yeah, no, it's great to have you back, Gary.
58:14www.guyshperiness.gov
58:43Transcription by CastingWords
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