- 4 hours ago
Dragons Den - Season 23 - Episode 05
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:01the doors to the den are open for business a place where fortunes are made and futures are forged
00:11but this time the game has changed a fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up
00:19and steal the deals tonight i'm jenny meek i'm a serial entrepreneur i'm currently the
00:27co-founder and ceo of refy beauty jenna welcome back to the den no thank you for having me back
00:33i'm excited for today when i look into the eyes of an entrepreneur there is literally one thing i'm
00:38looking for it's their belief that their idea is going to succeed i can see in people's eyes if
00:43they're lying to me i know exactly what i can bring to a business so if there's a fight for
00:47an
00:47investment i will be absolutely fighting for it i love disagreeing with the dragons i really really
00:52do i am not scared of any of the dragons if anything they should be scared of me
01:08i'm zahira my business is called hattie i want to start a movement of human connection
01:14and my pitch starts in quite a unique way i'm just trying to throw the dragons a little bit
01:22off kilter
01:26okay absolutely no idea zero idea i'm stuck there's something a bit eerie about it there is something
01:35a bit eerie my perfect match in a dragon for my business would be stephen he understands like
01:45the millennium generation the gen z generation can really get us front and center
01:52so
02:02so
02:19Hello, Dragons. I'm Zee, and I'm the founder of Hattie.
02:23We are gathered here today to finally lay to rest traditional dating apps.
02:28Because for those of us, like myself, who are in such a real human connection,
02:33they've wasted enough of our time.
02:35Now, before I tell you any more, I wanted to give you a quick question.
02:40I can either continue to pitch this to you myself,
02:43or I can put the rest of the pitch up on the screen behind me,
02:46lay in this coffin, and allow you to read it.
02:48The choice is yours.
02:50I'd say get in the coffin.
02:51I'd say get in the coffin.
02:53You should never ask that of a dragon.
02:55We're all going to say get in the coffin.
02:56OK, I'm really going to need you to let me pitch this to you, please,
02:59rather than just reading the screen.
03:00You're all right. Go on.
03:01No, we'd love to hear from you instead.
03:03It would have been really awkward if you actually wanted me to get in the coffin.
03:06Because let's face it, you'd never make a business decision over text alone.
03:10So why are we dating that way?
03:1280% of users of traditional dating apps are emotionally burnt out by them.
03:16And I should know, because I'm one of them.
03:19After deleting them for what felt like the hundredth time,
03:22I hit my absolute breaking point.
03:24And from the ashes of my absolute despair at that point, Hattie was born.
03:28The online dating industry is potentially worth over $9 billion.
03:32And yet today, only 15% to 20% of matches ever turn into a two-way conversation.
03:38On Hattie, we're completely flipping the script.
03:41Instead, every single match will turn into a five-minute scheduled voice or video call.
03:46So once you connect, there's no messaging, there's no dialing in, there's no scheduling.
03:50The app automatically does it for you.
03:52There's no exchanging numbers.
03:54The app calls you both at the right time and connects you.
03:57After the call, you choose.
03:59You can speak to that person again or end the match forever.
04:03We launched on the 14th of February, we made revenue in 10 days,
04:06and we've already grown to over 5,000 downloads.
04:09Today, I'm offering you the opportunity to invest £150,000 for 5% of a business
04:15that will become the next unicorn.
04:17Dragons, this isn't just an investment in an app.
04:20It's an investment in re-humanising the way that we find love.
04:23Are you in?
04:25You're going to have to wait to find out.
04:28I was really hoping you were just going to go straight to yes.
04:34Looking to spark a connection with a dragon
04:37is online romance revolutionary Zaheera
04:41and her next-generation dating app.
04:44The entrepreneur is seeking £150,000
04:47for a 5% share in her business.
04:52First to lean in with a question is Deborah Meaden.
05:00So, I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name.
05:02Did you say?
05:03Zee.
05:03Zee.
05:04Well, my full name is Zaheera, but everyone calls me Zee.
05:06Zaheera, that's lovely.
05:07Zee.
05:08OK, so, I mean, the idea sounds great.
05:12Just explain where you are with the business at the moment.
05:15What's your revenue model
05:16and how much money have you made to date?
05:18I'm assuming you mean February the 14th this year you started, right?
05:22So it is quite new.
05:23Brand new.
05:24And, like, my whole point with launching it
05:26was to prove that there is a different revenue model
05:28you can have against a dating app.
05:30So some of the traditional ones
05:31took anywhere between two and five years to monetize.
05:34So one of the ways we make revenue
05:36is through booking dates through the app.
05:38So we get a commission for every date that's been booked.
05:41The other way is we've integrated with dating coaching
05:44and mental health.
05:44Because my philosophy isn't just get people on better dates.
05:48It's actually make people better daters.
05:50So we also get commission from any dating coaching
05:53that's been booked through the app.
05:54And then eventually we want to trial things
05:56like minimum subscription.
05:57So it's everyone.
05:58And it's not a lot.
05:59It's like $2.99 a month.
06:00Is that the longest version of you saying it's pre-revenue
06:03that I have ever heard in my life?
06:04So we've only made about £48 of revenue so far.
06:08All of those words you gave were good and really interesting,
06:11but you're pre-revenue, really.
06:13Pre-revenue, yeah.
06:14OK, so you've got 5,000 people signed up.
06:16How many of those are actually active users?
06:19So it varies on the day.
06:20We've had about 17,500 likes sent.
06:23We've had 100 phone calls.
06:26But a lot of people have now run out of people
06:28to actually go on a date with.
06:29So we largely grew through organic TikTok.
06:32So we had a couple of videos go massively viral,
06:35just me explaining the concept.
06:37But then you get users all over the country.
06:39You don't just get them in London,
06:40which is a real problem
06:41because really this is hyper-localized, right?
06:43So you want to launch in London and then scale it.
06:46So, yeah.
06:49Zee, I have a lot of experience in this industry.
06:52I've spent some time with the founder and CEO of Hinge.
06:56I've also spent some time with the CEO of Tinder,
06:58good friends with the CEO of Bumble.
07:01So this is a very difficult challenge, right?
07:03And a lot of everything you've said
07:04about people's dismay and dissatisfaction
07:06with dating apps is so unbelievably true.
07:09I hear it all the time from everybody.
07:10I would just hate to be on the dating app circuit.
07:15And that video that went viral,
07:17what were you saying in the video?
07:19Literally just me explaining the concept.
07:21And what part of it was resonant?
07:22I think, A, it's very novel, right?
07:25We've completely scrapped messaging.
07:27The app auto-shedules you a five-minute call with your date.
07:30So I think there's a couple of things
07:32in the community aspect of it,
07:34of, like, we will only accept people on there
07:36who are willing to actually get verified.
07:38And also we have a ghosting penalty,
07:39so if people don't turn up,
07:41they get banned from the app.
07:42And I think that's resonating
07:43for a lot of reasons right now,
07:45because the younger generation are demanding more,
07:47the Gen Z lot, who are like,
07:49no, we want human connection.
07:50Like, they want raw authenticity
07:53in a way that I don't think
07:55the traditional dating apps have.
07:56So you're the anti-dating app.
07:59You've taken every feature that people hate
08:00about the traditional dating environment,
08:02and basically you're trying to do the opposite.
08:05So there's a narrative there.
08:09Z, Z, you've come in with a 3 million valuation
08:13and a project that's been worked on for a few months.
08:16How can you justify that?
08:19So part of the reason for that
08:20is I've got a letter of intent
08:22from an investor at 4.5 million,
08:24but I completely recognise
08:25how much value you would all bring to the table.
08:28How much is that investor going to bring?
08:31150k.
08:32Yeah, I think you should have signed that
08:34and got that money.
08:36Then you wouldn't have needed to come here.
08:39I think this is still
08:40an incredible opportunity though, right?
08:41Like, whether I walk out with money
08:43or the chance to just have interacted with all of you.
08:46No, I do, but I think it's...
08:47You've come in with a valuation of 3 million
08:50and you're pre-revenue.
08:52You can't for one minute have thought
08:55that that wouldn't be fairly controversial.
08:59I agree. It is controversial.
09:01Yeah, so what about you?
09:04What have you done from a business perspective?
09:06Because that would justify why.
09:08Have you done something
09:09from a business perspective before
09:11and made millions from a seed of an idea?
09:14No.
09:14So where do you get the valuation
09:16and what's the reason and rationale for the valuation?
09:19Because it's quite punchy.
09:20I think, so part of it is that
09:23what I'm looking for the 150 for
09:24is really to get to 100,000 users
09:26and then assuming that 1% of our user base
09:29book a therapy session once a month,
09:32that's £25 for every therapy session that gets booked.
09:35So that gives you £25,000 a month in revenue from that.
09:39We then get between £3 and £12 per date.
09:42And if you assume that 10% of our user base goes on one date,
09:47you make another, like, £50,000 from just commission from that.
09:51So for me, like, yes, the valuation is high,
09:54but I think for me there's a huge growth opportunity here
09:57and it's about looking at the future growth of the business.
10:01You see, I've never used a date hat.
10:05And the numbers you're talking about, commissions,
10:08are in relation to where you're going.
10:11It's very small.
10:13Get a percentage of a date.
10:17Get a percentage of therapy.
10:20That's not going to make...
10:21Those bits are not going to make the next unicorn.
10:28So for that reason,
10:29I'm going to let you carry on with the other dregs.
10:31I'm out.
10:32Well, I really appreciate your time.
10:34Thanks, Tuka.
10:36Zee, hi.
10:37Hi.
10:38This is a world to me that I just don't understand tech.
10:43They talk about building an app at work
10:44and then they go, oh, it blows my mind.
10:47So for that reason, I am out, but I wish you the best of luck.
10:50I appreciate it.
10:53And Zee,
10:54I think this is a market that's...
10:56..that's clearly very overcrowded.
10:59It's not something that I would want to invest in.
11:02So I'm going to say that I'm out,
11:04but it's not a reflection of you as an individual
11:07for the way you've presented.
11:11I absolutely echo that.
11:12You've presented really, really well.
11:14And I feel like anything that you came up with,
11:16you will find a way to make it successful.
11:19I have a bit of a worry for you.
11:22My worry is you are working in a space
11:24where a lot of your competitors have to win.
11:28So if you do find that magic combination
11:32that says, ah, that's where we earn our money,
11:35your competitors are in a situation
11:39where they can just say, oh, that's working.
11:41OK, let's do it.
11:43That is a big risk for you.
11:46So I'm really sorry, but I won't be investing.
11:48I'm out.
11:51Zee, this is a...
11:53I think this is a really perfect business for me
11:57because I'm particularly interested in community, loneliness,
12:00and how technology can solve that at scale.
12:08Putting like 150 grand bet on this at this point
12:17is just like too high of a bet to make.
12:20Can I convince you of one data point?
12:22What's that?
12:23Do you know Tim Ferriss?
12:24Yeah.
12:25So Tim Ferriss went on the Modern Wisdom podcast
12:26last year, and he said,
12:28can someone just build a dating app
12:30where the sole purpose is a 10-minute voice or video call?
12:34We did five.
12:35That's just our thought process.
12:37But he is one of the best tech investors in Silicon Valley.
12:41I think even if you don't want to invest today,
12:43and I can completely understand why,
12:45what I would love is if you do know Tim Ferriss,
12:48an introduction to him and Simon Sinek,
12:50because Simon Sinek is actually
12:51one of my biggest inspirations for this
12:52because he always talks about the eight-minute call.
13:06just give me a minute.
13:13It's a big problem.
13:16I understand the problem.
13:23I am going to make you an offer.
13:26However,
13:28if I'm investing £150,000
13:31in a business at this stage,
13:32which I consider to be,
13:34with all due respect,
13:35an idea,
13:38I consider myself
13:39basically a partner in the business.
13:43Okay, so
13:45you asked for
13:46£150,000
13:47for 5% of your business.
13:50I will make you an offer
13:51to give you
13:53all of the money
14:03for
14:0335% of the business.
14:07Vampire,
14:07as you would call me.
14:08I call everybody.
14:09But it's just,
14:09there's just no,
14:10there's just no,
14:10I just can't see another way.
14:13Okay.
14:14Well,
14:14somebody just turned in their grave
14:15in the box.
14:19Would you go down
14:20to 20%?
14:25No.
14:26I wouldn't.
14:2930?
14:3432 and a half
14:35and we've got a deal.
14:37Come on, Stephen,
14:3830.
14:38Come on,
14:39come on, Stephen.
14:42Go on.
14:43Go on.
14:44I know, but it's...
14:45Even the dragons
14:46want you to do this.
14:47Come on.
14:49Okay, fine.
14:50Yay!
14:54Thank you so much.
14:57After a tense
14:58back and forth,
14:59Zaheera seals the deal.
15:01I'll see you soon.
15:04And with Stephen Bartlett
15:06now on board,
15:08her dating app
15:09just found
15:10its perfect match.
15:14It is one of the
15:15greatest opportunities
15:17that I've ever had
15:17in my life.
15:18I think
15:19it is
15:20utterly incredible
15:21that the dragon I want
15:23wanted me.
15:39I'm James Martin
15:40and I'm from Harrogate
15:41in North Yorkshire.
15:42We wanted to create
15:43something where people
15:44could enjoy the great
15:45outdoors in a bit
15:46of luxury.
15:48It's called
15:49glawning.
15:50Which means?
15:51Glawning is a lawn,
15:53isn't it?
15:53I feel like
15:54it's glumping
15:55but you buy the tent.
15:57Well, they're
15:58really readily available.
15:59We've got one of those.
16:00To be fair,
16:01it doesn't have the awning.
16:02The what?
16:03So the awning's
16:04the bit between
16:05the tent and the car.
16:06So that's an awning?
16:07Yeah, but it goes
16:08with glawning.
16:09It was completely
16:09lost on you,
16:10wasn't it, Stephen?
16:11Yes.
16:11When Peter said glawning.
16:12100% lost on me.
16:16I'm passionate
16:17about the business
16:17and I've started
16:19to invent some new
16:19products.
16:20So this, I think,
16:21is a real exciting time
16:22and a great time
16:23for dragons
16:23to come on board.
16:32Hello, dragons.
16:34My name's James
16:35and I'm here today
16:36seeking an investment
16:38of £60,000
16:39in return
16:40for a 10% share
16:41of my business,
16:42Glorning.
16:43We aim to redefine
16:45what it means
16:45to go camping.
16:47It all started
16:48when I was on a
16:49camper van holiday
16:49with my wife.
16:50We had the freedom
16:51of the open road
16:52and we had the world's
16:53most miserable awning
16:54attached to the side
16:55of our camper van.
16:56It was boiling hot
16:58when the sun came out.
16:59It was freezing cold
17:00the rest of the time
17:01and it flapped around
17:02like a tent possessed.
17:04Worse of all,
17:04it was really,
17:05really boring.
17:06So we decided
17:07we're going to do
17:07something about it
17:08and we created
17:09the Glorning
17:10which is a glamorous
17:11canvas awning
17:12that can be attached
17:13to the side
17:14of a camper van,
17:15caravan,
17:15motorhome
17:16or large vehicle.
17:17It can also be used
17:19as a standalone tent
17:19by zipping off
17:20the connecting canopy.
17:22Since we launched
17:23we have achieved
17:25net revenue
17:26after VAT
17:27of just over
17:28£4.3 million
17:30and we also have
17:31our own festival
17:32which attracts
17:33around 2,000 people
17:34every year.
17:35But this is just
17:36the beginning.
17:36We now want to build
17:37a go-to
17:39camping lifestyle brand.
17:41We have some
17:42fantastic new products
17:43in the pipeline
17:45and we believe
17:46that these are going
17:46to open up
17:47massive new markets
17:47and we'd love
17:48for you guys
17:49to be on that
17:49journey with us.
17:51So Dragons,
17:52I invite you now
17:52to join us
17:53on the Glorning Revolution.
17:56A glammed up
17:57camping classic
17:58which attaches
17:59canvas to
18:00camper van
18:01or caravan
18:02is the brainchild
18:03of James Martin.
18:05Please feel free
18:06to come and
18:06take a look
18:07at the product.
18:14The entrepreneur
18:16is seeking
18:17£60,000
18:18in exchange
18:19for a 10%
18:21share in his business.
18:23So this is a
18:24bell tent.
18:25So really the
18:25unique bit
18:26is the attachment
18:27to the van.
18:27attachment.
18:28It's the awning
18:28isn't it?
18:29Because normally
18:29that would be
18:30closed off.
18:31Yes.
18:33First to take
18:34a closer look
18:35at what's on offer
18:37is seasoned camper
18:39Jenna Meek.
18:43Hi James.
18:44Hiya.
18:44So I love caravanning.
18:46As a kid I used
18:46to always caravan
18:48with my parents
18:49and each time
18:50we got away
18:51I'd be like
18:51are you putting
18:51the awning up?
18:52Because then
18:53there'd be arguments
18:54because it took
18:54so long to put
18:55this awning up.
18:56So how difficult
18:57is this one
18:58to put up?
18:58How long
18:58does it take?
18:59Well that's one
19:00of the reasons
19:01we chose a bell
19:01tent as the
19:02kind of base
19:03tent because
19:04they're very easy
19:05to put up
19:05and it's usually
19:06about eight and a
19:07half minutes
19:07on my own
19:08to go from
19:09start to finish.
19:11And you mentioned
19:12this £4.3 million
19:14so what is
19:15the current
19:15business architecture
19:17right now?
19:17Are you selling
19:18these at festivals
19:19or have you got
19:20another company
19:21that is a
19:22you mentioned
19:22a festival?
19:23What have you
19:24sold to make
19:24£4.3 million?
19:25Yes.
19:26So the £4.3 million
19:27is the
19:27is solely
19:28to do
19:28with the
19:29the
19:29Glawning business
19:30so 75%
19:31of sales
19:32come online
19:33and about 25%
19:35at festivals.
19:36We do have a
19:37festival we run
19:37that as a
19:38separate company
19:38so the first
19:39year we did
19:40that was
19:402017
19:41and we had
19:41about 150
19:42people
19:42and then it's
19:43just grown
19:44year on year
19:44and there's
19:45now about
19:452,000 people
19:46come along to
19:46that so that
19:47has a separate
19:48turnover with
19:48its own profit.
19:50James do you
19:51buy these
19:52individually
19:53or separately?
19:54You buy them
19:55separately
19:55so you buy
19:56the base tent
19:57and then you
19:58buy your
19:58connecting canopy
19:59and that varies
20:01in size
20:01so we do a
20:01standard height
20:02one which will
20:02fit on the
20:03likes of the
20:04transporter which
20:05is here
20:05and then we do
20:06a high top
20:06version which
20:07will go on
20:07caravans,
20:08motorhomes and
20:08bigger vehicles
20:10and we now do
20:11an inflatable one
20:12which we've just
20:13launched but we
20:14haven't got them
20:14in stock yet
20:14but we've kind of
20:15sold half of them
20:16already.
20:17Okay so when
20:17did you start
20:18this?
20:19I came up with
20:20the product in
20:212013.
20:22At the time I
20:24was actually
20:24running a
20:25start-up law
20:26firm so my
20:27focus kind of
20:28wasn't on this.
20:28Okay so are
20:30these sort of
20:31like side hustles
20:32for you and
20:33you're a lawyer
20:35by day?
20:35So at the start
20:37it was a side
20:38hustle then it
20:39started to do
20:39pretty well.
20:40Right so you're
20:41now doing this
20:41full time?
20:42Yes.
20:48James, so I'm
20:49assuming you're
20:51buying this in
20:51from China.
20:52Yeah.
20:54So there's no
20:56barriers to entry
20:57on this.
20:58If I wanted to
20:59do this I'd
21:00pick up the
21:00phone and
21:02within 12
21:03weeks I'd have
21:03been in my
21:04warehouse.
21:05Yeah well we
21:05do have design
21:06rights on this
21:07particular
21:07configuration.
21:08Yeah but your
21:09design right might
21:09be you've got
21:1124 inches higher
21:12but something
21:13similar I can
21:14get.
21:16Yeah I mean
21:17there have been
21:17people who have
21:18tried to copy
21:18it.
21:19I'm not going
21:20to copy it I'm
21:20just going to
21:20ring up my team
21:22in China and
21:23pick the ones
21:23I want.
21:25Easy as that.
21:29James.
21:30Yes.
21:31On the 4.3
21:32million in revenue
21:32you've generated
21:33over the last
21:34is it roughly
21:3410 years just
21:35over 10 years?
21:35Yes yeah.
21:36What's the net
21:37profit been the
21:38cumulative net
21:39profit?
21:39About 150,000.
21:42Okay so
21:45hmm so when
21:46I look at
21:48the business
21:48it doesn't
21:52look very
21:52investable
21:53because if I
21:55were to invest
21:5660,000 pounds
21:57say it was for
21:5810% or in that
21:59region it would
22:00take some time
22:01based on the
22:01profits being
22:02generated in the
22:02business to ever
22:03get a return.
22:04So how does a
22:06return happen in
22:07this business if
22:08the cumulative net
22:08profit over the
22:09last decade has
22:10been 150k?
22:12So my plan is
22:13now to build
22:14the business on
22:16innovation primarily
22:18we have some great
22:19new products in the
22:20pipeline so we've
22:21got one that we've
22:21just recently
22:22released which is
22:24the inflatable
22:26version of the
22:27Glawning.
22:28We've already sold
22:29half of those and
22:30we should sell the
22:32others fairly
22:32quickly.
22:33I also have
22:35applied for a
22:36patent for a new
22:38design which I
22:39think is going to
22:39be a game changer.
22:41So there's future
22:42innovation coming
22:42which I'm betting on
22:44versus what I see
22:45here and the
22:46business in front of
22:47me.
22:49It's always a bit of
22:49an amber flag for
22:50me when an
22:51entrepreneur says to
22:53not invest in the
22:53thing in front of me
22:54but in something that
22:55is coming.
22:56For me I'm always
22:56like I want to invest
22:59in.
22:59I can tell you
23:00about it.
23:01Yeah.
23:01As I say the
23:03patent that we've
23:04just applied for
23:06is something that I
23:07think will take this
23:09to the next level.
23:10What is that patent?
23:11So it's for a roof
23:13box which has an
23:16inflatable awning
23:17integrated inside of
23:19it.
23:20You open the roof
23:21box, you plug into
23:22your 12 volt, you press
23:23a button and the
23:23awning inflates out of
23:24the side of the van.
23:26So it's taken the
23:27pain points of having
23:27to get the awning out
23:28of its bag, connect
23:30the pump up, pump it
23:31up, line it all up
23:32with the van, connect
23:33it, all of that is
23:34kind of done.
23:35And is that a patent
23:37or a design patent?
23:39That's a patent.
23:40That's a patent.
23:41These are just
23:41design rights but
23:42that's a patent.
23:43See James, that's so
23:45much more exciting
23:46than this.
23:47Yes.
23:48Yeah.
23:48Yeah.
23:49I wish you could have
23:50come in and at least
23:50demonstrated that.
23:52Yeah.
23:52Even if it was in a
23:54prototype shape.
23:54or form because
23:55that could be
23:56investable.
23:57Yeah.
23:58But this is just
23:59a tent.
24:01Mm-hmm.
24:02It's tough.
24:03Um, where are you
24:05in your patent?
24:07We've applied for it.
24:08And when?
24:10Yesterday.
24:12Right, okay.
24:13So, well, I wanted
24:14to get it in and have
24:15it applied for us.
24:16So you have no idea
24:17whether or not somebody
24:18else is going to pop
24:19their head up and said
24:19I actually did that
24:20about ten years ago?
24:21No.
24:26James, it's, um,
24:29there's quite a lot of
24:30frustration here.
24:33And it also feels a
24:35little bit disingenuous
24:36because you only applied
24:39for a patent yesterday.
24:41So it feels like I've got
24:43this inflatable idea.
24:46let's quickly pivot.
24:47Let's get this invention
24:48because I know they like
24:49patents.
24:50I'm just going to have a go.
24:51That's how it feels.
24:52It feels a bit disingenuous,
24:54the pitch now,
24:55with what you just said.
24:56Yeah, well...
24:57If this is something
24:58that you've been working on
24:59and something you've been
25:00thinking about,
25:01why did you apply
25:02yesterday for a patent?
25:03Well, I did...
25:04I did bring it forward
25:06to yesterday
25:06so I would have
25:07the patent applied for.
25:08But I wonder whether
25:10your pitch could have
25:10been much better, James.
25:12It could have been,
25:14you know, I've spent
25:15the last eight years
25:15of my life creating
25:16the perfect awning
25:18and I've given up
25:19being a lawyer
25:20to focus on this.
25:22But I've got a seed
25:23of an incredible idea
25:24that I think is going
25:25to make millions.
25:26and it's called
25:27the inflatable
25:28roof box awning.
25:31I've now got
25:31a patent, Dragons.
25:32Yeah.
25:33And all of a sudden
25:34I've got a different...
25:34I've got a different pitch.
25:36Yeah.
25:37I genuinely...
25:38I think we'd be fighting
25:39over who invested.
25:41Sadly, I'm going to say
25:42that I'm out.
25:44OK.
25:44But I encourage you,
25:46if you do get the patent,
25:48please come straight to me
25:50and I'll deal with you directly.
25:52Thank you, Peter.
25:56James.
25:57I always sit here
25:58trying to figure out
25:58whether the entrepreneur
25:59is selling me
26:01a measurable past
26:02or a hypothetical future.
26:03Yeah.
26:04So I'm trying to piece together
26:05from what you're saying
26:06what I would actually
26:07be investing in
26:08because it's not
26:09in the den today.
26:10I'm a big fan
26:11of the inflatable idea.
26:12If I tried to put up
26:14a tent like this,
26:14it would end up
26:14looking like a sleeping bag.
26:16But for me,
26:17as an investment proposition,
26:18it's not for me,
26:19so I'm going to say
26:19that I'm out.
26:20OK.
26:21Thank you, Stephen.
26:25James.
26:26I think it's quite cool.
26:28I think it's actually quite...
26:31It's one of those innovations
26:32you think,
26:32why didn't somebody
26:33do it before?
26:34It feels so obvious.
26:35Yeah, it's very simple.
26:36Very simple.
26:36Absolutely.
26:38Had you been further
26:39down the route
26:39of the patent,
26:40I might well have been
26:42more inclined to invest,
26:44to be honest.
26:44But right now,
26:45I've got a clue.
26:46I haven't got a clue
26:47whether or not tomorrow
26:4827 people go,
26:50yeah, no,
26:50I did that 10 years ago.
26:52And neither have you.
26:55So I'm afraid
26:56I won't be investing.
26:58And I'm out.
26:59But I really do
27:00wish you all the best.
27:01I really do.
27:05James.
27:06I take care.
27:11It's a shame.
27:13Because
27:16innovation
27:17came quite late
27:18in the pitch.
27:20So today,
27:21unfortunately,
27:21it's not investable,
27:23but I wish you all
27:24the best,
27:24but I'm out.
27:30James.
27:31Hi.
27:32So I really wish
27:33I could have helped you
27:34do your pitch
27:35because you came in
27:36and you said,
27:37I've got this tent
27:37and then I've got this vessel,
27:38but the festival's
27:39a different business.
27:40Or actually,
27:41if you come in
27:41and being like,
27:42my vision is to
27:44own this
27:45world,
27:46and you've got
27:46this community
27:47of 2,000 people
27:49at your fingertips
27:50at a festival
27:51in real life,
27:52I'm like,
27:53oh my God,
27:54there's something there
27:54and you're not
27:55seeing the two together
27:56and how that is the start
27:58of what could be
27:59something huge
28:00because you cannot
28:01replicate community.
28:04I think,
28:05for me,
28:06it's about going away
28:07and understanding
28:08with this community
28:08that you've already got.
28:10Start there.
28:11Ask them questions.
28:12Hey,
28:13how can we develop this?
28:14How can we make
28:14this one better?
28:15Who's interested
28:16in the inflatable?
28:17And try and understand
28:18how can you be
28:19that camper van business
28:21of solution
28:21and make it easier
28:23for the customers
28:23that want this life
28:25that you're trying to sell
28:26because I want it.
28:27I've been looking
28:27at camper vans.
28:28Then you will just fly
28:30because I think
28:30this is really cool
28:31and I would want
28:32my camper van
28:33to look like this
28:34when I do get one,
28:35but it's not an investment
28:36for me,
28:36so I am out.
28:37Okay,
28:38thank you.
28:39Thank you very much.
28:40Thank you, Dragons.
28:41Good luck.
28:41Cheers.
28:41Good luck.
28:42Cheers.
28:44That's it
28:44for James.
28:46The Dragons
28:47admired his creativity
28:48but felt the focus
28:50had been on the wrong product
28:51and he leaves the den
28:53with nothing.
28:56Yes,
28:56that was intense.
28:58Peter gave
28:58a great alternative pitch
29:00which in hindsight
29:01would be lovely
29:02to have done,
29:03but it's hard to know
29:05what they're going
29:05to focus on
29:06and what they're going
29:06to build on,
29:07so hey, hey,
29:09onwards and upwards.
29:28Do you want some water?
29:30Yes, do this.
29:31I'm Connor.
29:32I'm Harry
29:33and we're two of the founders
29:34of Club Cultured.
29:35Cheers.
29:36Cheers, mate.
29:37And we make delicious,
29:39premium,
29:39high-quality
29:40ferments and pickles.
29:42We're in the den.
29:43We're going to get
29:44the deal we want.
29:45The missus don't like
29:46the smell of kimchi
29:47and we close all the time
29:48but it's all right.
29:50We're dedicated.
29:50We're here.
29:52We're doing the work.
29:53Kimchi.
29:54Oh, fermented foods.
29:56Fermented foods, yeah.
29:58Very good for the gut microbiome.
29:59Very good.
30:00Ready, bro?
30:02All right.
30:03Love you.
30:04Love you too.
30:05We've done our research
30:06on the dragons
30:07and we know
30:07they're into gut health,
30:08we know they're big foodies
30:09and they've made a series
30:10of food investments before.
30:12Yeah, yeah.
30:14That's what we've been waiting for.
30:16So we're just super excited
30:17to get into the den
30:18and share our products
30:20and our business with them.
30:31You all right, dragons?
30:32How's it going, dragons?
30:33Hello.
30:34What if we told you
30:35there's a fermented food brand
30:36that produces proteins,
30:38sides and sauces?
30:39Well, we're the founders
30:41of that brand, Club Cultured.
30:43I'm Harry, that's Connor
30:44and our journey began
30:46in our business partner
30:47James' back garden
30:48where we turned an old fridge
30:49into a DIY fermenter
30:50and made our first batch of tempeh.
30:52Since then,
30:53we have built a delicious range
30:55of premium plant-based ferments
30:56and pickles
30:57crafted by a chef
30:59who's trained
30:59in Michelin star kitchens
31:01that deliver bold flavors
31:02and known gut health benefits.
31:05We believe food that does good
31:07should taste amazing too.
31:08That's why our naturally fermented
31:10and pickled products
31:11such as our umami-rich kimchi
31:12to tangy krauts
31:13and punchy sauces
31:14are designed to slot effortlessly
31:16into your daily meals,
31:17making gut health easy
31:19and enjoyable.
31:19We've produced and sold
31:21over 200,000 kilos,
31:23generated 1.4 million in sales
31:25and supplied some of the UK's
31:26biggest food brands.
31:28After maxing out our second site,
31:30we moved into our brand new
31:314,500 square foot
31:33fermentation facility
31:35in Norfolk.
31:36We make everything in-house,
31:38giving us total control
31:39over quality, flavor
31:41and consistency.
31:44We're now forecasting
31:45to hit 4.5 million in sales
31:47in 2028
31:48with a deep pipeline
31:49spanning across
31:49manufacturing,
31:50food service and retail.
31:52We're here today
31:53to ask for a £50,000 investment
31:55in exchange for 3.5% equity
31:57into our brand.
31:58So Connor's prepared
31:59some delicious samples
32:01for you guys.
32:02We have some tempeh sushi rolls
32:03and some kimchi pancakes
32:04and there's some little samples
32:05of the pickles and ferments
32:06for you to try as well.
32:09A range of gut-friendly pickles
32:12and ferments,
32:13including tempeh,
32:14a traditional Indonesian staple
32:16made from soybeans,
32:18is the proposition
32:19from Harry Watmo
32:21and Connor Jordan.
32:23I'm not sure everyone's
32:24spice tolerances,
32:25but the red one
32:25obviously has some chilli in it,
32:27so don't go eating
32:28the whole pot in one go.
32:29The pair are seeking
32:31£50,000
32:32in exchange
32:33for a 3.5% share
32:35in their company.
32:36That smell,
32:37that is amazing.
32:39Thank you,
32:39it was,
32:39I bought it in Selfridges.
32:42I'll show you the bottle
32:43if you want.
32:44Eau de kimchi.
32:45Yeah,
32:45Eau de kimchi.
32:47Their products
32:48may smell
32:48and taste the part.
32:50It's really good.
32:52But will their enterprise
32:53prove just as appetising?
32:58Connor, Harry.
32:59Hello.
33:00Hello, Debra.
33:00That tempeh
33:02is absolutely delicious.
33:03You probably know
33:04I'm plant-based.
33:06This looks like
33:07the contents of my fridge.
33:09But that tempeh
33:10is, I think,
33:11the best I've ever,
33:12ever tasted.
33:15But I don't understand.
33:16Do you sell the tempeh
33:17or are you just giving that to me?
33:18We supply the ones
33:19in the sleeves there
33:20as tempeh.
33:21So we actually,
33:21when we first discovered tempeh,
33:23we taught ourselves
33:24how to make it.
33:25And after a while,
33:25we didn't know what we was doing.
33:26We was losing batches,
33:27we was working night shifts,
33:28taking it home.
33:29Nothing was working,
33:30so it was like,
33:30we need to find
33:31the tempeh yoda.
33:32So we went to Indonesia
33:33for a week's training,
33:35learned how to make it properly.
33:36And we pride ourselves
33:37on making Indonesian
33:38grey tempeh,
33:39really doing homage
33:40to the quality of that product.
33:42And if you look at the reviews
33:43on our website,
33:44it's consistently
33:44the same comments,
33:45what, like people say,
33:46it's the best tempeh
33:47I've ever had.
33:49Connor, Harry,
33:51really interesting business.
33:52I'm a big gut microbiome fan.
33:54Yes.
33:54What are your backgrounds
33:55and what brought you
33:56to the gut microbiome world?
33:58Let's go first,
33:59so we've known each other
34:01since we were five years old.
34:02My background is
34:03I didn't do particularly
34:04great at school,
34:04but my love was cooking.
34:06So I went to college
34:08and done three years
34:10professional chef's diploma.
34:12And then I got work experience
34:14in the Ritz Hotel in London.
34:15And I ended up going there
34:16two weeks after I left college at 18.
34:19I stayed there for six years.
34:20And then my background,
34:22so I also left school at 16,
34:24got a job at a stockbroker.
34:26Worked there for six years
34:27and our other business partner,
34:28James,
34:28we're best friends
34:29from year seven at school.
34:30We worked with each other
34:30from 19 to 22 on the same desk.
34:33We realised that life
34:34wasn't for us.
34:35Went travelling for 18 months
34:36to where we sort of
34:37first discovered kimchi, tempeh,
34:39and we just fell in love with it.
34:40And then when we came back
34:41to England,
34:42we could just see
34:42that everything was really processed
34:44and we felt like,
34:45you know,
34:45there's a huge opportunity
34:46for fermented foods.
34:48And we went for it.
34:50So if I'm looking
34:51at this business
34:52from a financial perspective,
34:53what year does it really
34:54begin for you?
34:562020 was the first year
34:57we did manufacturing.
34:59Okay, so let's go from 2020.
35:00Give me the revenue and that.
35:01Yeah, so 90k revenue,
35:03a loss of 44k.
35:0444?
35:05Yeah.
35:05The following year
35:06was 275k,
35:08a loss of 73.
35:10The following year
35:11after that was 342k
35:12and a loss of 123.
35:14And the year after that
35:15was 359k
35:17and a loss of 104k.
35:19And then last year
35:20it was 253k
35:21and a loss of 83.
35:24You've lost
35:25probably almost 400,000 pounds
35:27since the business's inception.
35:29Yeah.
35:30Where has that money come from?
35:31So we've had investors.
35:32So we've raised
35:33just under half a million
35:34since we started.
35:36And for kitting out
35:37our last space,
35:38we took out a loan
35:38ourselves to fund
35:40the kit out
35:40for our move to Norfolk.
35:42So you've raised 500k
35:43for investors.
35:44Yeah.
35:44And how much of the business
35:45do you guys to loan?
35:4756%.
35:4756%.
35:48Between three of you?
35:49Yeah.
35:49Okay.
35:50And you've taken a loan of what?
35:51So that last loan
35:52it was 225k
35:54and the outstanding amount
35:55we have left
35:56is 174,000.
35:57And how much cash
35:58have you got in the bank?
36:00About 85k.
36:01Okay.
36:01And what are you forecasting
36:02for this year?
36:03This year,
36:04450,000
36:05and a net profit
36:06of 22 and a half.
36:08And how are you tracking
36:09so far for this year?
36:10We've done about 75k
36:11so far this year,
36:12but we actually had
36:13a new big customer
36:14come visit us
36:15two days ago
36:16and we have some big contracts
36:17lined up for them.
36:20So for me,
36:22it looks like the business
36:23is going down
36:24rather than up.
36:25So what's the goal?
36:26What are you trying to do?
36:27So for us,
36:28it's been the leader
36:29in the industry
36:30in UK manufacturing
36:31for these products.
36:32But you need to do
36:33about 100x
36:34compared to where you are,
36:35don't you,
36:35to be able to do that?
36:36Yeah.
36:37But we're confident
36:38we can build our brand position
36:39as well as on the
36:40food service side.
36:41But my big thing here
36:43is that if you want
36:43to try and get
36:44half a million in sales,
36:46you haven't got the cash.
36:49Well, we're confident
36:50with these contracts
36:51coming in
36:51that will enable us
36:52to grow
36:53and bring more
36:54But how?
36:54How will you do that?
36:55How are you going
36:56to pay for it?
36:58Well, we're confident
37:00with what we've got
37:00at the moment
37:01and we have other investors
37:02who said before
37:02when it gets to a stage
37:04No, that's the point though.
37:05So what does that mean?
37:06So I invest today
37:0750k, 3.5%.
37:09Other investors
37:10put more money in.
37:10I'm going to go down,
37:12aren't I?
37:12I'm going to dilute.
37:13So how much money
37:14are you looking to raise
37:14in essence
37:15over the next 12 months?
37:17Well, this would be
37:18the only money we've raised
37:19over the next 12 months.
37:20That's not enough.
37:21I think it will be enough.
37:23It's not enough.
37:24It definitely isn't enough
37:26because you've raised 500.
37:28You've nearly spent
37:28all of that.
37:29You're out of cash.
37:31You've only got cash
37:32in your business
37:33because you've got
37:34£170,000 of a loan.
37:36You have no cash.
37:37You're currently insolvent.
37:39Well, at today
37:40our current cash position
37:41is £85,000.
37:42Yeah, I know.
37:43But you owe £174,000.
37:44You can't afford
37:45to pay the loan back.
37:45So I'm putting in
37:46£50,000 into a business
37:48that's already
37:48hasn't got enough cash
37:50to pay back its debts.
37:52It's not a good investment, guys.
37:57So I'm going to have to say
37:58sadly that I'm out.
38:00But I wish you
38:01every bit of luck
38:02and your product
38:03does taste beautiful.
38:05Stunning.
38:05Thank you, Peter.
38:06Great chef.
38:07Thank you very much.
38:10Can I ask when you're going
38:11to be making
38:12£400,000 profit?
38:14In a single year.
38:15No, as a cumulative.
38:18So by 2026
38:20we're forecasting
38:21£1 million
38:22and a net profit of £100
38:23and then the following year
38:24£2.5 million
38:26and a net of £375.
38:28So between those
38:29next two and a bit years.
38:30OK, so in two years
38:31you'll have made up
38:32your losses.
38:33Yeah.
38:33OK.
38:36I really, really
38:38want to invest in this.
38:43Actually, I'm going to be quiet.
38:45Ooh.
38:48Hi.
38:50I'll just tell you
38:50where I am
38:51because I think
38:53you guys are great
38:54and you've done everything
38:55to make a beautiful,
38:55beautiful product
38:57but you've got
38:58a lot of experts
38:58in here
38:59that are probably
38:59very clued up
39:00on this stuff.
39:01I am probably
39:02your more mass market
39:03customer here
39:04because I go
39:04into Holland and Barrett
39:05and I don't know
39:06what I'll go in for
39:06and then I walk out
39:07with 20 prebiotics.
39:09I think as an investor
39:10to actually help you
39:12I wouldn't really
39:13be able to do much
39:14so for that reason
39:15I am out
39:15but I wish you
39:16all the best.
39:18Thank you, Jenna.
39:20Harry and Connor,
39:23I love the fact
39:24that you are very knowledgeable
39:28but today
39:30you've not convinced me
39:31to say
39:31this is an investable
39:33opportunity
39:34at 3.5%.
39:39For that reason, guys,
39:41I'm not going
39:41to invest in amounts.
39:42Thank you for your comments.
39:46I'm also going to tell you
39:47where I am.
39:48My fridge
39:49is full of this stuff
39:50and I had a little bit
39:53of a thought
39:53on the brand
39:54club culture
39:55because I realised
39:56that all of the items
39:57that I have,
39:58the kimchi that I have
39:58in my fridge
40:00looks authentic
40:01to its native country
40:04and I think this
40:05has been branded
40:06as if it's
40:07a mass market product
40:08but kimchi
40:09isn't quite there yet
40:10so there's something
40:11about it looking
40:13authentic
40:13to its native country
40:14that has made it
40:16more compelling,
40:16that's made it look real
40:18versus it looking
40:19like a rave.
40:21I see a business
40:22that has historically
40:24lost money
40:25every single year
40:26and is in decline
40:27from a revenue perspective
40:30so I'm going to say
40:31that I'm out
40:31but I wish you
40:32the very best.
40:32Thank you for your feedback.
40:35Um, I actually
40:37completely disagree
40:38with Stephen.
40:39Ouch.
40:41Oddly, there are plenty
40:42of Korean-looking
40:44kimchi's around
40:45but the one
40:46that really has
40:47broken through
40:48isn't a Korean-looking
40:50kimchi.
40:50Yeah.
40:51It looks like
40:52a pickled product,
40:54you know,
40:55so it's sort of
40:56recognisable
40:57and funnily enough
40:58I think it's going
40:59to be more powerful
41:00to move it out
41:01out of this
41:01the sort of
41:02the shelf
41:03that is those things
41:04that other countries eat
41:05and move them
41:05onto Main Street
41:06so it clearly
41:08looks like something
41:09that everybody
41:09should have
41:10in their fridge.
41:10I shouldn't be worrying,
41:11I shouldn't be thinking
41:12about whether or not
41:12it's good for my gut
41:13or not.
41:13I'm not buying it
41:14as a medicine,
41:15I'm buying it
41:15because it tastes great
41:16and I want it
41:18in my fridge.
41:30The thing is
41:34I do love your story
41:35and I love
41:36where this has come from
41:38and I think that will
41:38come through
41:39to the consumer
41:40and that's
41:41really important.
41:44I think
41:45there's a problem
41:46though
41:48and the problem
41:49is you only own
41:5056% between
41:51the three of you.
41:54Who's your single
41:55biggest other
41:55shareholder?
41:58So two guys
41:59who come on
41:59previously.
42:01And what to say
42:02they own between them?
42:037% each.
42:04How much?
42:047% each.
42:057% each.
42:09No, I can't.
42:15I don't like
42:17the whole pattern
42:20and I see this pattern
42:22of what's going ahead
42:23and this is
42:24how much cash
42:25you're going to need
42:26versus how much equity
42:28you have already
42:29given away.
42:30Yeah.
42:31You are going to be diluted.
42:32I mean,
42:33I can do things
42:33that stops me
42:34being diluted
42:35but that isn't
42:35fair either.
42:36That's not the type
42:37of business.
42:37That's not what
42:38I want to do.
42:39So, no.
42:40We always knew
42:41that we was going to
42:42I know what you're
42:42doing here.
42:43You're just keeping
42:43me talking
42:44so that I don't
42:45go out.
42:46I know what you're
42:46doing.
42:46I think it's good
42:47to keep you talking.
42:49It is actually.
42:49I'll give you that.
42:50Guys, guys, guys,
42:51guys, guys,
42:52you're great.
42:53All I can do
42:54is tell you
42:55that is a really,
42:56really good product.
42:58And I will be a customer
42:59but I won't be an investor.
43:01No worries.
43:01So, I'm out.
43:02Thank you very much.
43:06Harry and Connor
43:08must leave the den
43:09empty-handed.
43:12She was tempted
43:13by their tempeh
43:15but ultimately
43:16Deborah Meaden
43:16couldn't be persuaded
43:18to take a punt
43:19on the pickle-loving pair.
43:23That is what it is.
43:24Still doing it.
43:26Still doing it.
43:26Cool shot.
43:28Obviously, we didn't
43:29get the deal
43:29like we hoped
43:30but lots of great
43:31feedback.
43:33What's next for us
43:34is proving the dragons wrong
43:35and making them
43:36regret their decision.
43:54My name's Sam Beany
43:55and my business
43:56is Kibu.
43:58While Kibu
43:59is a product
43:59that people have seen before
44:00it's quite unique
44:02in how we're doing things.
44:05Oh, this looks fun.
44:07Headphones for kids
44:08but I feel like
44:09there's something
44:09more unique to it
44:11than that.
44:11Is it interchangeable?
44:13Yeah.
44:13Builder and headphones.
44:15I like that.
44:17It's so great
44:18when kids
44:19get the product
44:20and they get to try it
44:21and their feedback
44:22is just
44:22it really motivates you.
44:25It'd be amazing
44:25to picture
44:26in front of the dragons
44:27and show them
44:28what Kibu
44:28is all about.
44:36Hi dragons.
44:37My name is Sam Beany
44:38the founder of Kibu
44:40the children's headphones
44:41you build
44:42repair
44:43recycle
44:45and today
44:46I'm seeking
44:47£65,000
44:48in exchange
44:49for 10% equity
44:50in my business.
44:56Every year in the UK
44:57over 18 million pairs
44:59of headphones
44:59and earbuds
45:00are thrown away.
45:01Most aren't easily fixed
45:02especially not by kids.
45:04Yet kids are curious
45:06capable
45:07and love to build.
45:08So why do we keep
45:09designing tech
45:10that when it breaks
45:11it gets binned?
45:12At Kibu
45:13we're doing things differently.
45:15The Kibu headphones
45:16come as a simple kit
45:17that children
45:18or fun-loving adults
45:19can build themselves.
45:20No screws
45:21no glue
45:22no fiddly wires
45:23just simple parts
45:25that snap together.
45:28Like that.
45:29And if a part breaks
45:32you only need
45:33to replace that part
45:34helping to reduce waste.
45:37Each pair
45:37is 3D printed
45:38in Hackney London
45:39in less than 30 minutes
45:41with our proprietary
45:423D printing kit
45:43code
45:43that doesn't compromise
45:45on speed
45:45or quality.
45:47The main material used
45:48is a recycled bioplastic
45:50that comes from
45:50plants like corn
45:51and when the headphones
45:53reach the end of their life
45:54the parts can be returned
45:55and recycled
45:56into new products.
45:57With your investment
45:59and experience
45:59we can scale faster
46:01develop new products
46:03and shape a generation
46:04of builders
46:05not just consumers.
46:10A kit for kids
46:11to make their own headphones
46:13is the offering
46:14from Sam Beeney.
46:15Lovely.
46:16Like my clothes and colour.
46:18It's got to be green.
46:19It's got to be green.
46:21He's seeking
46:22£65,000
46:23for a 10% share
46:25in his business.
46:27Will Sam's
46:28sonic startup
46:29hit the right note
46:30with the dragons?
46:33Sam, super interesting.
46:34So what really
46:35is the crux
46:35of this business?
46:36Are they aspiring
46:37to be really good headphones?
46:39Or are they aspiring
46:40to be something
46:40that teaches kids
46:41how to build things
46:42and to have a bit of fun?
46:44Yeah, I mean
46:45we obviously want them
46:46to be great headphones
46:48but our main goal
46:49is not to compete
46:50with the big players
46:51when it comes to sound
46:52or things like that.
46:54Ultimately
46:54we're trying to deliver
46:55an experience
46:55to children and families.
46:57You know
46:57it's being able
46:58to build your headphones
46:59yourselves
46:59and we hope
47:00that then when they break
47:01kids are then
47:02more likely
47:03to want to repair it
47:04and see the headphones
47:06go through their life.
47:09And
47:10is it just you
47:11involved in the business
47:12at the moment
47:12or have you got a team?
47:14Yes, it's mainly me
47:15but I have
47:17two main partners
47:19who are helping me
47:20so businesses rather
47:21that are helping me.
47:22So one is a 3D printing
47:23manufacturing company
47:24that I used to work for
47:26and another is
47:27an award winning
47:27design agency.
47:29And what are
47:30the total sales
47:31and when did you
47:31begin?
47:32So
47:34we did our
47:35Kickstarter
47:35in April
47:37last year
47:38and our total
47:39sales are
47:40about £25,000
47:42to date.
47:44Yeah,
47:45sold over
47:46450 pairs.
47:49Sam,
47:49hi.
47:50So how much
47:51do they sell for?
47:52So we sell them
47:53for £39.
47:54Okay,
47:55and what do they
47:55cost you to make?
47:57They cost us
47:57£10.40.
47:59Okay.
48:00And at the moment
48:01are you only
48:02on the crowdfund
48:04platform?
48:04Are you already
48:06selling into retail
48:07or direct
48:07to the consumer?
48:08Yes,
48:09so we're selling
48:10now.
48:11We're selling
48:12direct to consumers
48:12through our website
48:13and we'd love
48:14to get into retail
48:15and really try
48:17and explore
48:18other avenues
48:19as well.
48:21So £40,
48:23that's expensive.
48:25You're limiting
48:25your market
48:26in retail
48:27because of that
48:28price.
48:29I can't see this
48:30what I call
48:31mainstream
48:31toy shops really.
48:34Okay.
48:34But I think
48:35while the
48:36upfront price
48:37is slightly
48:38higher,
48:40the value
48:41over the long term,
48:42we were speaking
48:43to parents
48:43and they were
48:44having to replace
48:45their headphones
48:46like every year
48:47or even less
48:47than that.
48:49Yeah,
48:49it may cost you
48:50more up front
48:50but if parts break,
48:53you know,
48:53there's this route
48:54here to fix it
48:55and make the
48:55headphones last longer.
48:58Sam,
48:59hi.
49:00I love it.
49:01Like,
49:01I really,
49:02really love it.
49:03I love,
49:03there's so many
49:04things I really like.
49:05I opened this up
49:06and I was like,
49:07oh my God,
49:08my inner child
49:08is so excited
49:09to build that
49:10because it's doing
49:11exactly what
49:12you're trying to do.
49:13It's helping kids
49:14get creative,
49:15understand how
49:16to make inventions
49:17and yeah,
49:18just really,
49:20really love it.
49:20A few questions.
49:21If I went into
49:22your social channel now,
49:23what have you done
49:24so far on social?
49:25Like,
49:26if I'm looking
49:26at your Instagram,
49:27your TikTok,
49:28what am I seeing?
49:29So you're seeing
49:30mainly reels
49:32and posts
49:33showing the headphones
49:34and then the sort
49:35of content
49:35that tends
49:36to be more popular
49:39where the product
49:39is used.
49:40So,
49:42guess this song
49:43kind of,
49:44for example.
49:45But we're trying
49:46to really get
49:46into that,
49:47you know,
49:47the organic engine,
49:48I guess,
49:49that reels
49:49and TikTok
49:50and stuff deliver.
49:50Has any of the content
49:51gone off?
49:52Like,
49:52have you got
49:52a lot of momentum?
49:53We've had posts
49:54that have,
49:57you know,
49:57done 50,000
49:58kind of views,
50:00that sort of thing.
50:01But I think
50:02the challenge we have
50:03is the average
50:04number of times
50:05people are seeing
50:06that content
50:06needs to be
50:07six,
50:07seven times.
50:08They're seeing it
50:09once in this organic post.
50:10They think,
50:10oh,
50:11that's interesting.
50:11And we're not,
50:13because we don't
50:14have the capital yet,
50:15we can't,
50:15like,
50:16show it to them
50:16again and again
50:17and try and...
50:18You can't.
50:18So this is why
50:18I'm asking.
50:19Yeah.
50:19You basically,
50:20you find,
50:20you've got a video
50:21with 50,000 views,
50:22you've got a video
50:23with 100,000 views,
50:24that's amazing.
50:25You've just got to
50:25keep creating
50:26more and more
50:26and more of that content.
50:27I build my home business
50:28to, like,
50:29five million,
50:30basically,
50:30off organic content.
50:31Like,
50:31you've got to
50:32keep going with it.
50:33Yeah,
50:33that's great.
50:34Advice like that,
50:35you know,
50:35that's what we really need.
50:39Sam.
50:40Hello.
50:41Hello.
50:41Um,
50:43I started building
50:44computers when I was
50:45a teenager.
50:46I had no knowledge
50:47of it,
50:48but I loved it.
50:49Yeah.
50:50And I think this is
50:51something that kids
50:51would just love to do.
50:53Um,
50:54so tell me about you.
50:55You work for this
50:57company.
50:57Yeah.
50:58Who are the company?
50:59It's this company
51:00called Batchworks,
51:01and they mass-produce
51:01things using 3D printing.
51:03And you left them
51:03to start this business,
51:04or what?
51:05So it was really
51:06a collaboration,
51:07so they are
51:08an equity holder,
51:09um,
51:09along with a design agency,
51:11and we actually
51:11see that as a strength.
51:12How much do they own?
51:14They own 39%.
51:16Ooh,
51:17wow.
51:19And you own?
51:2133%.
51:23Ooh,
51:23that means there's
51:24somebody else in here.
51:25So yeah,
51:26there's, um,
51:26a design agency
51:27who own 20%.
51:29And who owns
51:30the other 8%?
51:31So we have,
51:32um,
51:33a web developer
51:34who owns,
51:34like, 4%,
51:35and then there's
51:362.5%
51:37that's owned
51:38by a brand agency,
51:40uh,
51:40and then I believe
51:41the rest is,
51:42um,
51:44just a pool
51:44kind of left.
51:47This is an unusual
51:48situation,
51:49because you're not
51:50the majority shareholder.
51:52Yeah.
51:52And if you were
51:53to receive an offer
51:54in here today,
51:56um,
51:58presumably you've agreed
51:59with your majority shareholder.
52:01Yeah.
52:01what your parameters
52:02of an offer are.
52:04Yeah.
52:04Is that right?
52:05Yes.
52:05And would it be from a dilute,
52:07would everybody dilute
52:08or does it come from
52:09your shareholding?
52:10Everyone's diluted equally.
52:11Everyone would dilute.
52:23All right,
52:23I'm going to tell you
52:24where I am.
52:25There's something,
52:26there is something
52:27that worries me about it,
52:28Sam,
52:28and I,
52:28and you're,
52:28I really like you.
52:30I think the design
52:30is really,
52:31really lovely.
52:34There's something
52:34that just isn't
52:35hitting the mark
52:36for me.
52:37It's,
52:38you know,
52:38I don't like
52:39the structure
52:39of the business.
52:40I really do like
52:41to be talking
52:41to a majority shareholder.
52:43Yeah.
52:45Just because I like
52:46to get a feel
52:46of where they are
52:47in all of this,
52:48you know,
52:48and understand
52:49if you've got
52:50a decent order,
52:51how much priority
52:52that would get.
52:53There's loads of questions
52:54I'd like to ask
52:54a majority shareholder,
52:55but they're not here today.
52:57So I'm afraid
52:58I won't be investing.
52:59I'm out.
53:00Thank you, Deborah.
53:05Sam,
53:05I am,
53:06I really,
53:07the minute I saw it
53:08and the minute
53:08you explained what it was,
53:09I really fell in love
53:10with the idea of it.
53:13But on a personal level,
53:14maybe because
53:14I don't have kids,
53:16Yeah.
53:18It hasn't personally
53:19resonated with me
53:20in the same way.
53:21So I'm going to say
53:21that I'm out,
53:22but I hope you're successful.
53:24Appreciate it.
53:27So I would say
53:28where I am.
53:29Yeah.
53:29You are credible,
53:31right?
53:31And the product's great.
53:34However,
53:35this needs
53:36a lot of money.
53:37Yeah.
53:38I think you need
53:39a lot more than 65
53:41to get this
53:42out there.
53:43So for that reason,
53:44I'm out.
53:45Thank you, Tika.
53:53I feel like I'm
53:54in the same place
53:58because it's just
53:59very difficult
54:00to find a way
54:02to monetise it.
54:06Have I missed something?
54:07Why you don't think
54:08it's monetisable,
54:10Peter?
54:11Have I missed the profit
54:12on the product?
54:13Yeah,
54:14the scale
54:14at the volume
54:15at £40.
54:16You think that's
54:17too expensive?
54:18It definitely is,
54:19yeah.
54:19I mean,
54:19these products
54:20to kids
54:20are £9.99.
54:22Yeah,
54:22but I think
54:23more parents
54:23are becoming,
54:25are caring more
54:26and more
54:27about the products
54:27they give
54:28to their children.
54:28I get that,
54:29but that's a lot
54:29of cash to spend.
54:34Sam,
54:34I'll tell you
54:34where I'm at.
54:36So I've loved this
54:37from the start
54:37and I do think
54:40there is something here
54:42because the thing
54:43is with kids,
54:44it's cult.
54:45It is word of mouth
54:46and you get that right.
54:48It really,
54:49really works.
54:50What I'm brilliant
54:51at is building a brand
54:52that people want
54:52to buy into
54:53regardless of what
54:54that product even is
54:55and that's what I feel
54:56like I can help with
54:57and I think
54:58if you're willing
54:58to work like really,
55:00really,
55:00really,
55:00really hard,
55:01like harder
55:01than you've ever worked
55:02to get this
55:03where it needs to be,
55:04this could be
55:04really huge.
55:07So I am going
55:08to make you an offer.
55:09You ask for £65,000
55:11for 10%.
55:13My offer is going
55:14to be all of the money
55:19but I want 15%
55:21of the business.
55:23Okay,
55:23thank you very much.
55:28Yes, Sam.
55:32I think Jenna's
55:33given you a really,
55:35really good offer
55:35given the structure
55:37at 15%.
55:39But that's going
55:40to be tough for me
55:41because I think
55:43you're going to need
55:45a lot of work here
55:46and a lot of money
55:46to make this business
55:48a success.
55:49Yeah.
55:52Obviously,
55:52equity is important
55:53and it matters
55:54but I think
55:55having a small part
55:56of a big thing
55:56is better
55:58than a big part
55:59of nothing.
56:00Peter,
56:01what about we share?
56:03Would you consider that?
56:09Yeah,
56:10I would consider that.
56:14I'll tell you what,
56:15I think I'm going
56:15to do two things.
56:16I'm going to give you
56:17an offer of all
56:18of the money,
56:20£65,000
56:24for 20%
56:25of the business
56:27or I would be willing
56:29to share it with Jenna
56:30and give you half
56:31the money for 10%.
56:33So I'd have 10%,
56:34Jenna would have 10%
56:36because I think
56:37I would have to do
56:38so much work
56:38and Jenna brings
56:39so much to this party.
56:47Okay.
56:49I think, yeah,
56:50I'd love to have
56:50both of you on board.
56:51That's all.
56:52Yeah.
56:55Well done.
56:56Well done.
56:56Yeah, it was great.
56:57Well done.
56:58Well done.
56:59Well done.
56:59Yeah.
57:00Yeah, fantastic.
57:01Well done.
57:02Appreciate it.
57:04Success for Sam
57:06who secures
57:07the backing
57:07of two dragons
57:08who will help
57:09ensure his product
57:11makes waves
57:12in the world
57:13of children's headphones.
57:14I didn't quite expect
57:15to get one dragon
57:17let alone two.
57:18It's just, you know,
57:19amazing.
57:20We're in business together.
57:22Yes, I think it could be
57:23really, really exciting.
57:26Really good.
57:27Okay, I need to go
57:28and plug in.
57:29Does he look like
57:30a cyber man?
57:31You don't watch
57:32Doctor Who, do you?
57:33He looks like a cyber man.
57:34Yeah, I definitely
57:35don't think they fit.
57:44Good luck.
57:45Next time.
57:46That one definitely
57:47isn't rubbish.
57:48You're on fire
57:48with your puns, Peter.
57:50I couldn't agree
57:51less with Susie.
57:52Oh, really?
57:53This is going to be ridiculous.
57:54I just know
57:54it's going to be ridiculous.
57:55I'm not looking forward
57:56to your questions
57:57but I'm here now.
57:58Oh, my Lord.
57:59What?
58:01I'll come and cry
58:01on your shoulder later.
58:04I've no idea
58:04why I'm engaging in this.
58:05I hate this game.
58:06Ha, ha, ha, ha.
58:07Ha, ha, ha, ha.
58:09Ha, ha, ha.
58:09Ha, ha, ha, ha.
58:21Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Comments