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00:00I'm Ina Garten. I love to invite interesting people to my house for good food, great conversation, and lots of
00:07fun.
00:07My friend, the incredible journalist and podcaster, Michael Barbaro from The Daily, is joining me for a wonderful day at
00:14the barn.
00:15I'm welcoming him with spicy hermit bars, with ginger and molasses, their flavors he loves.
00:22And he's sharing stories of his amazing life in journalism.
00:25I was thrust in front of a microphone in the only space that The New York Times was willing to
00:30give, which was a utility closet on the 16th floor.
00:34Then he's making his signature old-fashioned cocktail. Yum.
00:37And I'm showing him my updated chicken Marbella that's perfect for easy entertaining.
00:42You're the perfect guest.
00:44I am?
00:45You are.
00:49I met my friend, Michael Barbaro, about a year ago.
00:52He came to the barn to record an episode of The Daily about Thanksgiving.
00:56We had such a good time together.
00:58I understand he likes ginger and molasses, and I thought, I'm going to make him my spicy hermit bars.
01:04I think he'll love them.
01:05So I've got butter and sugar in the mixer.
01:07I'm just going to add one egg.
01:10It needs to be room temperature.
01:12Okay, next I'm going to add molasses, about a quarter of a cup.
01:14Hermit bars are kind of like ginger cookies, but in a bar shape.
01:18And I finish them with a rum glaze, which is so good.
01:23Okay, next to dry ingredients.
01:24I'm going to combine them and add them to the mixer.
01:26So first, I'll put two cups plus two tablespoons of all-purpose flour in a sieve, along with two teaspoons
01:32of baking soda.
01:34Then to amp up the flavor, two teaspoons of ground ginger, one and a half teaspoons of ground cinnamon,
01:40and the last spice, one and a half teaspoons of ground cloves.
01:44Finally, I'll add half a teaspoon of kosher salt.
01:47This just makes sure there are no lumps in the mixture.
01:50Next, I'll turn the mixer on low and slowly add the dry ingredients to the butter, sugar, and molasses,
01:56mixing just until they're combined.
01:59That's perfect.
02:00It smells so good.
02:01You can really smell the ginger.
02:03I'm going to add raisins.
02:04I add golden raisins.
02:05I just think they have great flavor.
02:07And minced, crystallized ginger.
02:09Okay, that's it.
02:11And now I'm going to just chill the whole thing in the bowl for 30 minutes.
02:16Okay, this looks good.
02:17And it smells incredible.
02:19And while that chills, let me tell you about Michael Barbaro.
02:22He's amazing.
02:23Michael Barbaro is an award-winning journalist and co-host of the New York Times' wildly popular podcast, The Daily.
02:31He grew up in Connecticut and was always destined for a career in journalism,
02:35from delivering papers with his sister Tracy as a kid,
02:38to writing for his high school newspaper before heading to Yale to study history where he was editor-in-chief
02:45of the Yale Daily News.
02:47After college, he was a reporter for the Washington Post, then moved to the New York Times,
02:52becoming a political correspondent and host of The Run-Up, a podcast about the 2016 presidential race.
02:59The following year, he and three colleagues, including Lisa Tobin, his future wife,
03:05created The Daily, a podcast about the biggest news stories of our time.
03:10I'm Michael Barbaro, and this is The Daily.
03:12It's become one of the world's most downloaded podcasts, listened to by 4 million people every day,
03:19winning many prestigious awards, including the Spotify Gold Milestone Award for surpassing 500 million streams.
03:28Michael co-hosts the show and is famous for his distinctive staccato speaking style and incredible journalism.
03:35He lives in Brooklyn with Lisa and their two children where he loves to entertain.
03:39I can't wait to see him again.
03:42I just love him.
03:44Okay, so the dough is chilled, 30 minutes, and I'm going to cut it in two.
03:50Okay, I'm going to roll each one into a log, about 12 inches long.
03:55It's interesting, they go on the baking pan round, and when they bake, they flatten out a little bit.
04:00You'll see.
04:00Okay, that's one log.
04:06And the second one.
04:08And then into the oven, 375 degrees for 20 minutes.
04:12They'll still be soft in the middle.
04:14It's so good.
04:16I am en route to Ina's house.
04:19She has asked me to be her guest.
04:22And when I got that call, time stopped.
04:26The earth stopped rotating.
04:27Because so deep is my love for Ina Garten that there's frankly nothing I wouldn't do to, frankly, just make
04:34her happy.
04:37So the hermit bars are baked.
04:39And see how they spread out the way I said?
04:41And I'll show you how I drizzled them.
04:42So I've got a cup of confectioner's sugar and two tablespoons of rum.
04:46But if you don't want to use rum, you can always use a little maple syrup.
04:49Just kind of back and forth like that.
04:51They look so much better like this, don't they?
04:53It doesn't have to be perfect.
04:56You want them to look very homemade.
04:59And they are.
05:00Okay.
05:01And then the last thing I'm going to do to give them extra flavor is a little bit of lemon
05:06zest at the end.
05:08Just right on top.
05:09And then when the icing is set, I'm going to cut them into bars.
05:13So these are going to be all ready when Michael gets here.
05:15Hope he likes them.
05:17If he doesn't, he's never invited back.
05:22Oh, my goodness.
05:24The perfect shrubs.
05:26The perfect purple dahlias.
05:29Stunning.
05:30I feel like if Ina has taught me anything, it's had to be a good guest.
05:33And so I'm going to wipe my feet.
05:41Ina.
05:42I'm so happy to see you.
05:44I'm so happy to see you.
05:45Oh.
05:48This isn't a thing no one knows about you but should.
05:50You give the best hug in the entire business.
05:53It's infused with love.
05:55It is.
05:55It's meant.
05:56So the last time you were here, we did Thanksgiving for your show.
06:00Yes.
06:00And that's what I call hard-hitting news.
06:03It was a different kind of episode.
06:05It was so much fun.
06:06Of our show.
06:07So how do you decide how many hard-hitting shows you do and how many fun ones?
06:12What's the balance?
06:13I'd say we have an internal barometer that says the news, which is our craft, day in, day out, has
06:20gotten too difficult, too depressing.
06:24And then we pause and we say it's time to do something different.
06:27We call up Ina Garten.
06:29We come to the barn.
06:31And we talk about the art of entertaining.
06:33And our listeners say, that is exactly what I needed.
06:36It was really fun.
06:37It was delightful.
06:37So I understand that you like ginger and molasses.
06:40I do.
06:40So I made hermit bars.
06:42Oh, they're beautiful.
06:42Is it a childhood memory?
06:43It is.
06:44Because for me, ginger and molasses are gingersnaps.
06:48And gingersnaps are the taste of childhood.
06:50I'm going to dunk.
06:51Okay.
06:57That's gorgeous.
06:58A very elevated ginger smell.
07:00I can't wait to talk to you.
07:01I have so many questions for you.
07:03Why do I think you've got all the answers?
07:05I have some of the answers.
07:12I'm here with Michael Barbaro, who is my absolute favorite interviewer.
07:16I can't believe I'm interviewing you.
07:17I can't believe you're interviewing me.
07:20So you started on The Washington Post and then you were on The New York Times.
07:23How did The Daily come to you?
07:25The Daily came to a few of us in late 2016.
07:29You may remember what happened that year.
07:31There was a seismic electoral event in this country.
07:35Donald Trump becomes president.
07:37A lot of us kind of missed that this was going to be happening.
07:40And we said, let's try something new.
07:42Let's try to tell the story of The Daily News in a fundamentally different way.
07:48And for us, that medium was a podcast.
07:51So The Daily started in 2017 with just four people.
07:55Four of us.
07:55Take me into the room, as you would say.
07:57That is how I would say it.
07:59Well, there were four of us.
08:00And these four people have a pretty radical vision.
08:03They're going to take the day's news and they're going to turn it into one immersive,
08:09rollicking, in-depth, sound-rich story that is going to make the news this 360-degree audio
08:18experience, unlike anything that really anybody had ever heard before.
08:22I was a print reporter thrust in front of a microphone in the only space that The New
08:27York Times was willing to give this fledgling podcast, which was a utility closet on the
08:3216th floor.
08:33In Siberia.
08:34In the middle of nowhere.
08:35And that's what any reasonable company does when they have no idea if what you're about
08:41to start has any chance of success.
08:42And we got really lucky because it did succeed.
08:44It worked out okay.
08:44It worked out okay.
08:45How do you think about a story for the podcast differently than you did as a reporter?
08:49I think when you come through the ranks as a print journalist in the traditional media,
08:54you think of telling a story as beginning with the most important piece of information
08:58and descending from there into less and less important information.
09:02When you're telling an audio story, it's very, very different.
09:06We need to draw you into a story and we want to keep you there the whole time, keeping you
09:10there and propelling you forward.
09:12And so maybe that means we need a character.
09:14Maybe the entire story is going to be a single character's journey from beginning to end.
09:20So you really understand it from the human point of view.
09:23And from the ground.
09:24Yeah.
09:24That's fabulous.
09:25How did you develop your unique cadence when you're interviewing somebody?
09:29I understand it had something to do with your grandfather.
09:31My Jewish grandfather was quite exacting when it came to how I, his grandson, could speak.
09:39Oh, how interesting.
09:40And when we sat across from each other at the table or were on the phone, he would criticize
09:46any utterance I used that fills the space, such as, you know, or like.
09:53If I were to say those things, he would pause and say, no, I don't know.
09:57Like what, Michael?
09:58And slowly but surely, he knocked those phrases and the whole idea of filling space, in a sentence,
10:06out of me.
10:07And so I take these rather long pauses and I speak in a way that's like a car swerving
10:12down the road trying to avoid saying those things.
10:14And it's produced a somewhat unique form of speaking that people notice.
10:18Okay.
10:18Moving along.
10:19This is the very first time on a roundtable that we can really talk about early voting.
10:26Well, thanks to your grandfather, sometimes the things that are really annoying turn
10:29out to be good.
10:30I don't wish this particular dynamic on another person, but I'm glad that it happened to me.
10:36Any mistakes along the way that you wish you would have avoided?
10:39Let me offer you a rather personal response to this.
10:41I think when you make something new and you're working what feels like 24 hours a day.
10:47Probably because it was 24 hours a day.
10:49Because it was 24 hours a day.
10:50It's hard to be a good friend.
10:51And it's hard to be a good sibling, a good son.
10:54And so the regrets I have are all around the sacrifices that you have to make when you're
11:00building something new.
11:01You let people down.
11:02Yeah.
11:03It's hard.
11:03You need to have people who really understand this is important.
11:06Yes.
11:07So for years, everybody knew what you sounded like.
11:09But in the past few years, people have found out what you look like.
11:13How does it feel to be so well-known when you're walking down the street?
11:18Well, I should ask you that.
11:22It's strange and wonderful.
11:25There's a thing that happens on the New York City subway.
11:27And I'll have my earbuds in.
11:28And I'll be sitting across from somebody else.
11:29And they'll have their earbuds in.
11:31And then they will take their phone and show me it.
11:34And there will be the icon of the daily.
11:36And they'll just say, I'm listening.
11:38And they may not say anything.
11:39And I almost want to cry.
11:40And it's very meaningful.
11:42But almost no words were exchanged.
11:44And I think there's something about the show we've made and the medium we're in.
11:48It's a private, personal experience of consuming the news.
11:53And so I love that kind of encounter.
11:55So what's a perfect day to you?
11:57You just wake up in the morning and say, this is going to be a great day.
12:00Perfect day for me is a very tall cup of coffee with extra oat milk, a game of tennis,
12:06an episode of Mad Men, a romp around the neighborhood playground with either of my two children.
12:12Tends to go better when they're separated.
12:15And then an old-fashioned cocktail.
12:18That sounds good.
12:20You love to cook.
12:21I do.
12:21Who taught you how to cook?
12:22My mother and my father.
12:24My father hails from a long Italian tradition of, you know, someone standing in front of
12:30the stove, in my dad's case, with a cigarette out of her mouth, making a pasta sauce on Sunday
12:36with meatballs for a family supper.
12:38So your father was Italian and your mother was Jewish?
12:40My mother was Jewish.
12:40So you have both of those traditions.
12:42Both of those strong-willed, emotional, and pretty rich culinary traditions in both cases.
12:51And we sat down as a family every night, and we had dinner, and we talked about the food
12:56a fair amount.
12:57So do you want to cook together?
12:58Absolutely.
12:59What can I show you?
13:01Something that I can make on a Saturday night when six people somehow end up in my house.
13:06Oh, I can do that.
13:07And then my children will eat.
13:08How about chicken marbella, which you marinate the day before, leave it in the refrigerator,
13:13and then just throw it in the oven?
13:14It's great for a dinner party.
13:16Sounds perfect.
13:16And will you show me a cocktail?
13:17And a garden always needs a cocktail.
13:19I am going to make you an old-fashioned.
13:23I am a connoisseur of this cocktail.
13:25It's the only cocktail I really know how to make.
13:27It's going to be perfect.
13:28Okay, let's go cook.
13:33I'm here with Michael Barbaro, and we're going to make chicken marbella, which is so
13:37great for entertaining.
13:38And apparently requires 20 pounds of garlic.
13:42It does.
13:44Okay, you ready?
13:45I am.
13:45So the first thing we need is olive oil.
13:47It's right there, and vinegar.
13:48So it's really like making a vinaigrette, right into the bowl.
13:51Okay, so these are the preparations for our chicken.
13:53Yeah, exactly.
13:54Okay, next is good red wine vinegar.
13:56And then I'm going to put in a lot of pitted prunes, and lots of, do you want to taste
14:01one?
14:02Yeah, olives.
14:03They're pitted olives, green olives.
14:05I use charignola, but whatever you can find, that's really good.
14:08Aren't they good?
14:09They're delicious.
14:09I know I'm going to love this dish already because we're pairing meat and fruit.
14:13I love them together.
14:15And those two are meant to be friends.
14:16So this is three and a half ounces of capers.
14:18The next thing is an incredible amount of dried oregano.
14:23And what I generally do with oregano is I like to just kind of put it through my hands like
14:30that, and it really releases the oils.
14:33So it really tastes like, it really makes a difference, doesn't it, rather than just
14:38dumping it in.
14:39Okay.
14:39And here's the coup de gras.
14:41It's one and a half heads of garlic, which I've already peeled and chopped really finely.
14:46And what's amazing is when it cooks with the chicken, it kind of gets sweet.
14:50You would think it would be incredibly garlicky, and it's actually not.
14:54Yeah, this is a rather unconventional assemblage.
14:56Isn't it?
14:56I know.
14:57Isn't it unusual?
14:58And it's so good.
14:59It's just crazy.
15:00Okay, now I have to season it.
15:01So do you want to put in two tablespoons of salt?
15:04Seems like a lot, but it's really good.
15:06That is an unafraid volume.
15:07Two tablespoons.
15:08Two tablespoons.
15:12Perfectly measured.
15:13I need to perform some dramatic flair here.
15:16Excellent.
15:17Very well done.
15:18And two teaspoons of pepper.
15:20Wow, this smells really good.
15:22Doesn't it smell good?
15:22Yes.
15:23And then bay leaves.
15:24And this is where you want fresh bay leaves instead of bay leaves that have been sitting
15:28in the drawer forever.
15:30These are from the grocery store.
15:32Just put them in whole.
15:33Okay, so that's the mixture.
15:35And now I'm going to put chicken in.
15:37And it's two chickens that have been cut up.
15:39Just cut up in quarters.
15:40You want to do it too?
15:41I absolutely am going to help you.
15:42Fantastic.
15:43All right, are we going in?
15:44Yes.
15:45Are we going to toss this?
15:47I'm going to psych myself up for this.
15:48Clean hands or a cook's best tools.
15:50Are you going to do it?
15:51Okay, great.
15:52See, that's how you mix it up and you really know that it's well mixed.
15:56Wow.
15:57Okay, I think we have to wash our hands.
16:01Okay, so this is going to marinate for six hours, ideally for 24.
16:05So I have one in the refrigerator.
16:07May I?
16:07Yep.
16:08So you take that one out.
16:10Yep.
16:10The miracle of preparation.
16:13And it's all going to go in this huge roasting pan.
16:17So I'm going to start.
16:19See, what I do is I take each piece and put it in the pan, skin side up.
16:24I love how the capers are embedded in the chicken.
16:26I know.
16:27It really gets, you can see that it's gotten into the meat.
16:31And then all of that just goes right on top of this.
16:36Perfect.
16:37Okay, next I put brown sugar on top.
16:40Just sprinkle it over.
16:42That's going to bring some nice flavor.
16:43Yeah, it's salty and it's caramelized and it's delicious.
16:48I need salt and pepper and then a little white wine.
16:53But I don't pour it on top of it.
16:55I just pour it around.
16:56So that you're not taking the elements off the chicken.
16:59You're right.
16:59You're leaving all the flavors on the chicken.
17:01Perfect.
17:02Okay, into the oven.
17:03350 degrees for 50 minutes.
17:06Okay, can I get the oven door?
17:07Yeah.
17:07Okay.
17:10It's a lot of chicken.
17:12Perfect.
17:16And while that bakes, I think we need a cocktail, don't you?
17:19Oh, absolutely.
17:20I think anytime an oven door opens or closes, a refrigerator door opens, closes to the front door, opens or
17:25closes.
17:25We need a cocktail.
17:32Chicken Marbella is out of the oven and I'm letting it rest.
17:34In the meantime, what are we going to do?
17:36We're going to make the old-fashioned.
17:38Sounds good to me.
17:38Okay.
17:40So, finally, this is my show.
17:42So, for each one of these, we're going to put a cube of brown sugar in here.
17:46So, you're making two?
17:47I'm making one for you.
17:48Two for me.
17:49What are you having?
17:50One for you, one for me.
17:51And we're going to put a couple of hits of bitters on top of each of these.
17:57And then we're going to take a little bit of the juice from maraschino cherries.
18:04Yeah.
18:04As it happens, Ina, I brought my own tool with me.
18:07Muddler?
18:08Is that a muddler you have in your pocket?
18:10It's a muddler I have in my pocket and I'm happy to see you.
18:13And we're going to muddle with this.
18:15This is going to turn into just like a really thick little paste.
18:20We're going to do about two ounces per each one of these drinks.
18:23This is very professional.
18:24Of delicious small batch bourbon.
18:26You can use whiskey.
18:27You can use rye.
18:30And then we're going to put some ice in it.
18:33So, I'm going to stir.
18:34And a wise friend of mine once told me, it was you.
18:37It was me?
18:38That minimum 30 seconds.
18:4030 seconds.
18:41And it's longer than you think.
18:42It's much longer than you think.
18:42And it brings the right amount of coldness to the drink.
18:45But it also waters it down.
18:48Exactly.
18:48So, it's not like pure alcohol.
18:50If you don't mind, I'm going to finally ask you to do some work here.
18:53Okay.
18:53And peel two slices of orange.
18:56Okay.
18:56Two slices of lemon.
18:57Each one of these drinks is going to have one each.
19:00Oh, I like that.
19:01Yeah.
19:02Good.
19:03Double citrus.
19:04Okay.
19:04Okay.
19:05To one and two.
19:07That is at least 30 seconds.
19:08I think you need more ice in these cups.
19:10Yes, that's cold.
19:11Okay.
19:11I want this to stay cold.
19:13Nothing worse than a warm drink.
19:14Now, we're going to give each one of these a cherry because it looks gorgeous.
19:19And tastes good too.
19:20And tastes fantastic.
19:21When I was a kid, my father used to give us the cherry out of his whiskey sour.
19:25So, we all like cherries.
19:26This is how we all learn to drink.
19:28Pour this in.
19:31And then, a last thing we're going to do right before you put the twist on is we're going to
19:37hit this with a little bit of nice club soda.
19:40And I don't think it dilutes it.
19:42I think it makes it more tolerable.
19:45And it means you could possibly have a second.
19:48That works.
19:49It gives it a little bit of a kick.
19:50So, now I'm going to put lemon and orange on each one.
19:52Mm-hmm.
19:53Okay.
19:53A little lemon around like this.
19:55Mm-hmm.
19:56Okay.
19:56And then dump it in.
19:57Just drop it in.
19:58Drop it in.
19:59Okay.
19:59No pretension.
20:01A little lemon.
20:02It's hard not to look nice when you're a little piece of lemon or a little orange of glass.
20:06Yeah, it actually looks great, doesn't it?
20:08Mm-hmm.
20:08Did we do it?
20:09Shall we?
20:10Cheers.
20:11Let's try it.
20:11To Michael Barbaro.
20:12To Anna Garten.
20:16Yum.
20:16Mm.
20:18That's just perfect.
20:19It is.
20:20So, I think we need a little chicken marbella with this, don't you?
20:22Yes, I do.
20:23Should we see how it is?
20:24Mm-hmm.
20:24Okay.
20:25So, it's been resting for 10 or 15 minutes.
20:28I think that's enough for the two of us.
20:29I think it's going to be enough for the two of us.
20:31And I think we just need to try a piece.
20:33All right.
20:34I'm going to go in for my favorite piece of chicken, which is a thigh.
20:36The dark?
20:37Oh, okay, great.
20:38A little bit of thigh meat.
20:39I think I'm doing the same thing.
20:40Yeah, I got a little bit of everything.
20:43Cheers.
20:43Cheers.
20:48That is terrific.
20:49Isn't that great?
20:50No, it's very, very elegant.
20:51I actually like the olives.
20:51I think the olives are particularly good.
20:53I'm going back in for the prune.
20:56Unexpectedly.
20:58You nailed it.
20:59We nailed it.
21:00It was very, very amazing.
21:02Cheers.
21:03Cheers.
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