- 2 days ago
Do you have to quit your job to grow? Or can you build something new while staying where you are? Daniel Woodroof from Pandan Social and Afiq Nazar from Grill Haven KL share how they navigated different career paths and why you’re not stuck with just one choice.
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00:07Hello and welcome to It's About Youth. I'm your host, Fah Nashay. Now, there's a long-standing
00:12belief that once you choose a career path, you need to stick to it. But today, many young people
00:18are starting to question and some even choosing to walk away completely while others choose to
00:23build something alongside what they already have. Now, we have two great examples of this today.
00:28Joining me today are Daniel Woodroff, who made a bold pivot from motorsports to business,
00:35and Afik, who chose to build a business while staying in aviation. Thank you so much, you two
00:41depper gentlemen, for joining me today. Let's start with the basics. Did either of you ever feel like
00:49once you chose a career path, you feel kind of stuck to it? So maybe, Daniel, we can start with
00:54you.
00:54For me, absolutely not. I think I've just had such an unconventional career path from
00:58start to finish. I didn't even go to university, right? And that's usually the foundation that
01:03people have for guiding them towards what industry they stay in. So I was in professional sports. I
01:08was a race car driver in Formula 3. I got into event management, consultancy. I was in the crypto space.
01:15I ended up in marketing, running my own marketing agency now. And yeah, I don't know what I'm going to
01:21do next.
01:22Afik, what about you?
01:23So for me, I feel you do not need to be stuck in a single identity. So as long as
01:30my aviation career has been
01:33progressed since 2018, I feel there's always another side of me that wants to explore a different side of aviation.
01:40Because aviation gives me that structured foundation. Whereas for business, I can apply the creative side of the spectrum.
01:50So I believe if you combine these two, I think you can create something quite remarkable.
01:54Right, right. That's awesome. I mean, a lot of young people today, even though they've been probably in the workforce
02:00for only, what, less than 10 years,
02:03they already feel that they're a bit stuck in what they do and they don't know how to venture out.
02:07But you two sort of, I would say made it.
02:11I mean, you two take a hard look at your career and decide to do something else completely. Right.
02:17So maybe then I will start with you first. When did you realize that racing wasn't going to be your
02:22long term path?
02:22And how hard was it to let go of the identity? Because you were pretty much, you know, an F3
02:27driver at one point and a very prominent one as well.
02:30Yeah. So I think, to be honest, I still haven't let go. I still, I still hold on to that
02:35as much as I can.
02:36Yeah. I think the reality hit me like a brick wall in 2016. That was the end.
02:43The last season of my professional career was 2015 and 2016 was when I really realized that there was no
02:50more funding to kind of continue and pursue that.
02:53And I think that was probably the most difficult year for me kind of having that reality check.
02:58And then since then, it's just been this constant path of reinvention.
03:02Right. Right. And in your case, so you are Pandan social founder or CEO right now.
03:09So how different was that? You know, both your tools are completely different.
03:13Yeah. I think every step I've had in my career has been in something that I do not have experience
03:20in.
03:20I don't have formal qualifications or training in.
03:23So I think it's been a lot of these iterations of imposter syndrome and kind of learning by being thrown
03:30into the deep end.
03:31And, you know, running Pandan social now is no different. Right.
03:34Like when I got into it, I wasn't a marketing expert. I wasn't a social media expert.
03:38And it was something that I had to learn on the job. I'd never run a business before.
03:41So, you know, using that analogy of being hit by a brick wall, it was like being hit by multiple
03:46brick walls again and again.
03:47And yeah, you know, you just got to kind of keep your head above water.
03:51And I'm glad to be where we are today. Right.
03:54I mean, it's that tenacity that got you through all those brick walls that you mentioned, Afik.
03:58So you choose, you didn't quit your job, but you built something that you're passionate about alongside,
04:03you know, aviation alongside being a pilot.
04:06What pushed you to sort of go there, you know, outside a already very stable career?
04:11Yeah, again, I go back to my point of I'm very uncomfortable with being only a single identity.
04:18And I would love to exhibit and display to the world that I can, I'm multi, I can do a
04:25lot of things.
04:26But possibly just to sort of skew it down to just running a business, because I think, again, I say
04:34creativity plays a big part,
04:36because in my line of work, we are confined by SOPs.
04:43Right.
04:44There is no deviation away from that.
04:46When you're...
04:48When you have to fly, you have to fly.
04:49There's a schedule and everything.
04:51You're flying 290 lives on your friends.
04:53There's no creativity around it.
04:56It's very procedural.
04:58But what I find beauty in running a business with that foundation is it creates that sense of discipline in
05:06running that business.
05:07So when you sort of merge these two elements together, it brings about a better structure, organized organization for you
05:15to run as a business.
05:17But has F&B always been sort of your passion?
05:20In a way, I'm a foodie, right?
05:23You're a pinangai, right?
05:24I'm a pinangai.
05:24There we go.
05:26Foodie at heart.
05:27So that's one of my forte, but I'm not construed to just F&B.
05:33I can, inshallah, I can do many other industries.
05:37But F&B gives that low barrier to entry and there's a lot of room for experimentation.
05:44So the failure rate is rather high, but it also gives you that sense of cushion if things don't go
05:51your way.
05:52Right.
05:52You should probably tell the audience what F&B you're running just in case, you know.
05:57So I'm a co-founder of Grill Haven, KL.
06:01We're situated in Bukit Damansara.
06:03So if you're around that corner, please drop by.
06:05Amazing burgers.
06:06Yes, we make amazing sliders and burgers.
06:08And we've tried that.
06:10So yeah, yeah.
06:10And triples.
06:11Definitely.
06:11Right.
06:12Okay.
06:13So what was the biggest fear when you both stepped outside of your career a little bit?
06:18You know, in your case, you sort of shift from one to another.
06:22And, you know, that must come with a lot of anxiety, you know, not knowing what's next.
06:27And in your case, you already have, you know, sort of a structured job, but you decide to expand it,
06:34basically to add more work.
06:36So let's start.
06:37Maybe Afek, we can start with you.
06:39Sure.
06:41Okay.
06:41So the biggest fear that I have is actually disappointing the people around me.
06:46Oh no.
06:47Yeah.
06:47Because I'm a very self-aware person.
06:50Right.
06:50And I feel that if I bring along all these responsibilities of lives in my hands, right?
06:59So I think from that aviation perspective is brought along to the F&B line.
07:07Right.
07:07It feels that it's a sense of responsibility that you have to bear.
07:10And because you're from such a, I'll say, prestiged career and diving into something where you have to dwell on
07:21financial numbers, costings, and each day, and then it's probably isn't that glamorous.
07:28So it gives a different sense of perspective as well from the public as well.
07:33So why are you doing this?
07:33Yeah.
07:34You already have something stable and now you're diving into the deep end with no possible forecast of how things
07:42are going to run.
07:43And I say, you know, bring on the challenge.
07:46I love the sense of challenge with me.
07:48And if it fails, it's okay.
07:49At least I tried.
07:51But it gives me that sense of belonging as well that I can provide something wonderful for the public to
07:58enjoy.
07:59Yeah.
07:59Which is the sedidus hamburgers.
08:01And they are wonderful.
08:03And I have to add, running an F&B business in this day and age, it's way harder than before
08:09because, you know, in the age of social media where everyone can sort of comment and critique,
08:15and, you know, you're relying on those sort of reviews, you're relying on making sure that you're delivering, you know,
08:21good customer service.
08:23Yeah.
08:23There's a lot of added pressure to it as well that you have to make sure that you stay on
08:27top of, right?
08:28But a small caveat though.
08:29I do not run this alone.
08:30I have my partner as well.
08:34Captain Hafiz Rahman, shout out to you.
08:36Oh, another captain.
08:36He's another captain.
08:37Wow.
08:38Okay.
08:38Yeah.
08:39So we just happened to be both pilots and have a deep fond for F&B.
08:46And so we decided, you know, let's just dive into this.
08:49Especially this happened during COVID.
08:51Yeah.
08:51So I feel that opened an opportunity for us to explore this creativity side.
08:58You do hear a lot of stories of, especially those in aviation pivoting during COVID as well.
09:04Yeah.
09:04So you were one of those stories, I would say.
09:06Yes.
09:07Yes, I was.
09:08But Alhamdulillah, we were able to continue, continue the business and until today.
09:14Yeah.
09:14So hopefully two more to come.
09:15All right.
09:16Daniel, what about you?
09:18So what was your biggest fear?
09:19In your case, you went from very prominent after driver and then you were a TV personality as well.
09:25And now you're running a huge social media marketing conglomerate, I would say.
09:32What about you?
09:33Yeah.
09:33I think my answer is a bit more selfish.
09:35You had a very wholesome answer.
09:38I think my biggest fear after that first career pivot was ending up in something that I just truly didn't
09:45enjoy.
09:45Right.
09:45I think that my job was tied to my identity and that identity was also tied to this lifelong passion.
09:52Right.
09:52Being in that sport was the one thing that I loved the most.
09:56Right.
09:56I was like, I'm going to be an F1.
09:58I know I'm going to be an F1.
09:59I love F1.
10:00I love motorsports.
10:01I love racing.
10:01But once I knew that it wasn't viable for me to have a long term future as a racing driver,
10:07that's when I was like, actually, I don't want to be in this industry if I'm not the driver.
10:11Right.
10:11It's like, I love planes and I want to be the pilot, but if I can't be the pilot, I
10:15don't want to be anything else in the airline industry.
10:17Right.
10:17And so I think from then on, it's been this constant iteration of experimenting different industries.
10:23And the reason why there's been so many pivots as well is because my biggest fear was being in something
10:28that I wasn't necessarily passionate about.
10:31Yeah.
10:31So would you say, you know, all the decisions that you've made are driven by passion or is it by
10:37financial situation or is it by like what makes you decide to move one after another?
10:43I think it was it's being opportunistic for sure.
10:46And I think it was treating my twenties as an experimentation decade.
10:50Right.
10:50So my years of experimentation are slightly longer than others because I didn't go to university.
10:56Right.
10:56A lot of people graduate from university when they're 22, 23.
11:00If you do a bigger degree, then you come out when you're 26 or 27.
11:04I mean, by the time people are coming out of university, I'm on my my third job.
11:08You know, you know, I'm like I've been in the workforce since I was 19 years old.
11:12So I think a lot of it was just, you know what?
11:15I know that I might not find what my long term passion is in my first or second attempt.
11:20So I'm just going to keep trying and trying and trying.
11:22Right.
11:23I mean, that's that's that's a good attitude or mindset to have, I guess, when you're approaching career, especially in
11:28your twenties.
11:28Yeah, because I think a lot of people are a bit bounded or set.
11:33You know, when you especially if you go into a big company, for example, you're like, OK, this is going
11:37to be my career.
11:37So I'm married and have kids because it's stable.
11:41But, you know, both of you show that that can, you know, not be the case that you can, for
11:47example, build alongside your career.
11:49And you, for example, looking at, you know, what you're passionate, passionate about and finding that one thing. Right.
11:55Right. We're going to expand a little bit more about both of you in terms of your career and maybe
11:59a little bit advice for you.
12:01But we'll go for a quick break.
12:17Hello and welcome back to It's About Youth.
12:19Today, I'm joined by Afik and Daniel, who are talking about career pivots in their early twenties and thirties and
12:27how that basically changed the trajectory in their lives and in their careers.
12:31And we talked about, you know, Daniel have moved from motorsports to now founder of Pandan Social.
12:38And Afik is still in aviation, but also is working co-founded Grill Heaven, which is, you know, amazing burgers
12:47and sliders.
12:48Right. OK, so we talked about a little bit about their backgrounds, but, you know, we're moving towards sort of
12:53the bigger picture and solutions here.
12:55Do you think young people today put too much pressure on choosing the right path career, especially in their career
13:02early on?
13:03Daniel, maybe we can start with you.
13:04Yeah, I mean, I think the answer is yes.
13:06And maybe not perfect career path in the traditional sense.
13:10But I think there's a lot of pressure on the youth to be this, you know, billionaire entrepreneur that is
13:16a dropout and exits, you know, and sells their company at the age of 22.
13:19Right. Because that's what's all over social media. Right. You're hearing all these success stories in like the U.S.
13:25and all these other countries.
13:26And I think there's a lot of influencers that talk about, you know, entrepreneurship and start your own business.
13:33People like Gary Vee and all of that. So I do think there is a lot of pressure.
13:38But I think I think what people need to remember is that, you know, even with my career path.
13:44Right. So it's motorsports, TV host, consultant, digital marketing agency.
13:49And then I sold my company to a U.S. based firm. Sounds incredible on the press releases.
13:53But in reality, that's it was a complete mess in real life. Right.
13:58It was just like constant fires. It looks nice now because I can weave it into a nice story.
14:03And it looks nice in press, you know, a nice PR articles that come out.
14:07But the reality is it's never a clear line. That's why it's called pivoting. Right. You're just constantly moving around.
14:13So I think the youth need to kind of remove that pressure. It's never it's never going to be perfect.
14:20And it is going to be messy. Right. I mean, you were saying just now that, you know, you came
14:24out with you didn't go to university.
14:27And it was difficult sort of just to start, you know, from one to another as opposed to probably other
14:33people who have degrees and had had a head start. Right.
14:36Yeah, exactly. I just I took every opportunity as it came and then kept pivoting.
14:41I mean, I'm not sure what your story is with creating an FMB outlet, you know, like with this agency
14:47as well.
14:47The only reason I started my agency was I was consulting in the U.S.
14:52And because I was the only consultant with no degree. Right.
14:55I had my partners with law degrees, finance degrees. They were doing forensic financial investigations.
15:01I had no qualifications to support with that. Right. And so they went, you do the social media.
15:06You're the young one. You can do it. OK.
15:08And so I had all this marketing coming on to me. And then I was like, guys, I'm burning out.
15:13I'm running on a whole marketing department and executing as one person.
15:17So I said, give me one salary of an American person. I will hire a team of Malaysians to outsource
15:24my work.
15:25And then I can focus on other high value tasks. So that's literally how I started Pandan.
15:29It wasn't like I woke up one morning and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I love marketing and I really
15:34want to do it.
15:34It was like, guys, I need help. I'm burning out. Can I just take a bit of this budget and
15:39like hire a team in KL?
15:41And I was very lucky that they said yes. And I was very lucky that that then grew to, you
15:45know, two, three staff to the 30 people that we have now in KL.
15:51And I mean, burnout, yes, but it also requires skill to do that, requires your past experience,
15:56your hard work to actually come up with an idea like that and to execute it and to make sure
16:05that you are successful doing it as well.
16:06So, kudos to you.
16:09Don't be humble.
16:10I think it's all clean in hindsight.
16:12Credit where do, brother. Credit where do.
16:16Let's move to you.
16:18You know, do you think that you today feel that they're stuck in one career path to make sure that
16:24it's perfect?
16:26Yeah, I think it all boils down to social pressure as well.
16:30As well as, I don't want to put it this way, but parents' pressure as well.
16:36Right, right. I agree, I agree.
16:38With no blame, entire blame to them because that was entirely how they were brought up.
16:44And with that upbringing came with security and ease of mind growing up.
16:49So, you can choose to express yourself without the pressure of finance and everything else.
16:55But I think as we evolve through the ages, certainly many other ways that we can go about targeting this
17:05problem, right?
17:06So, they get a bit too comfortable earlier on.
17:11And when times goes by, they actually feel like, you know, this is not for me.
17:16And they have to pivot and the story goes on.
17:19So, what I feel they can combat this issue is actually by trying to understand their character instead.
17:27You know, go with that, build that as a foundation and build upon that to find which industry that fits
17:33them most.
17:34But along the way, if they find something else that interests them, if they are able to juggle all work
17:43at once, I think that's a perfect balance if you would ask me.
17:47Right, okay. I guess on drawing on that, you know, I want to ask both of you as well.
17:53You know, success today are quite different compared to success before, right?
17:58Like you mentioned just now, you know, a lot of our Asian parents think, you know, having a stable job
18:03is the goal, for example.
18:05Is having a secure, stable job with pension and all that is the goal, right?
18:10But how is success defined actually with youths today? Is it about stability or is it about passion or is
18:17it about having options or is it just about money, profit?
18:21Afik, what's your talk on this?
18:23Okay, as cliche as it sounds, it has to be a balance, a balance of all.
18:28Passion gives you that energy. Stability gives you that ease of mind.
18:33But I think if you combine these two elements together, it gives about a wonderful result for you.
18:37So, at the end of the day, it comes down again to your character building.
18:42How you are able to face resilience at a time of despair and also how to manage success when it
18:49comes after many years of hard labour.
18:52So, I think profoundly that is exactly how youths should face this dilemma in this age. What about you then?
19:01Yeah, I think the answer is different for everyone, right?
19:04I think success is happiness as you define happiness and not how other people define happiness, right?
19:09If you're an artist and your pure driver of happiness is pursuing passion, then that's your correct answer at that
19:18any given moment in time, right?
19:19But I think if I were to give advice generally to the masses, I would say success is being able
19:25to have options in this day and age, right?
19:28I think tying on to that point of societal pressures coming from our parents' context and era, we're living in
19:34a completely different era right now as well, right?
19:37We don't know what job security will look like.
19:39I mean, two years ago, we thought that the number one job that will never be disrupted was software engineering.
19:45And now with AI, which I know is a buzzword, it's the first job that is being disrupted more than
19:49any other.
19:50I think as a pilot, you're going to be safe for a while.
19:54I still need the job, I think.
19:55But I think as you've proven, right, even if you have one solid job, you've got diversification and options.
20:04Absolutely.
20:04And you can talk, you could be a host, you could be whatever you want it to be.
20:08So I think having that option in life to do different things if one job gets disrupted and you can
20:13pivot and move to something else, I think that is success.
20:16I think, sorry, it's just one very important caveat to that is knowing that you have multiple responsibilities is also
20:24the onus on you to choose what level of priority is given for each task, right?
20:31So because you're running many things, don't forget you're also running yourself.
20:35So your mental health, your wellness also plays a part.
20:40So with added opportunities comes with added responsibilities.
20:44Yeah, we completely agree.
20:48I feel like it's a privilege to have options.
20:51But at the same time, you have to honour that, you know, you have to make sure you're responsible and
20:56make sure that, you know, the path that you choose doesn't sort of endanger others or create harm for others,
21:03right?
21:04Right. Okay.
21:05So, you know, we talk a lot about pivoting.
21:07I want to talk a little bit about support because I think a lot of people who think about pivoting
21:13would,
21:14that's the first thing that they would think about, right?
21:17How am I going to do this?
21:18What support do I have?
21:20You know, in both your cases, do you mind sharing a little bit, you know, do young people actually have
21:25enough support these days to change direction?
21:28Be it, you know, emotional support or financial support or even family support?
21:32What are your thoughts on this?
21:34Daniel?
21:34Yeah, I think financial support is probably the most difficult, right?
21:38Particularly if you're looking at a path like entrepreneurship.
21:40You know, I remember seeing a statistic where they did an analysis of all these different entrepreneurs in the U
21:45.S.
21:46And you can see that statistically those that go into entrepreneurship already have a financial safety net.
21:52Right.
21:52Right.
21:52And that was the same case for me, right?
21:54I was living with my parents.
21:55I had food on the table.
21:56So I knew that even if my company didn't do well, I still had a roof over my head, right?
22:01I had those like foundational needs.
22:02Yeah.
22:03And that's why, I mean, even running Pandan Social, the first two and a half years, I didn't take one
22:07ringgit as salary.
22:09You know, two and a half years of running a company with zero salary.
22:11So I think for those that are maybe at a lower savings gap or at a lower earning income bracket
22:18or they have a lot of financial responsibilities looking after their family and parents, I think making these pivots is
22:25incredibly difficult.
22:26And I think that's where you have to be a lot more strategic.
22:27And I think when you do listen to other people, you know, particularly in terms of getting advice from them,
22:32take into consideration the context that they have.
22:35Right.
22:35Because other people's financial or emotional situations are different.
22:39I think Malaysians in general have a very good support network.
22:42You know, we are a very kind and supporting people.
22:44I think, sure, maybe there is that stigma of like, you know, parents being struggling to let kids do something
22:52away from the norm.
22:53But I would say the financial limitation is probably the biggest that I see.
22:58Right. What about you?
23:00I guess for me, yeah, to answer your question, no.
23:06Our youth do not get that proper support, I think, holistically.
23:11So I think they have to sort of pick up the pieces along the way, which entails to a lot
23:16of disappointments, to be honest with you.
23:19But again, yeah, to pick up on your point, subjectively, everyone has their own financial cushion and financial opportunities that
23:28they are able to dive into another industry.
23:31But a lot of us don't, right?
23:34Let's just be realistic on that.
23:36Many of our youths like not only financial support, emotional support, family support and also mentorship.
23:45Yeah, education for sure.
23:46Education.
23:46So I think when you combine these three elements all together and not being present for a youth that is
23:53wanting to explore themselves,
23:56that creates that level of doubt in themselves and not able for them to take that leap of faith or
24:04that risk to who knows,
24:07maybe something even better for them in the future.
24:09So these things probably is the limitation to their creativity and their futurehood.
24:17And I think it's definitely something that we need to address as well.
24:20And the government has a lot of programs, you know, when it comes to entrepreneurship or skill building.
24:24But at the same time, we probably have to look inwards as well, you know, in terms of how the
24:28family functions, how a company functions,
24:31and where or even NGOs, where can we get, you know, these kind of supports that you mentioned, both of
24:36you.
24:37And how do we channel it to our youths today, right?
24:40I think that's something that we have to holistically and comprehensively look at.
24:44We're a bit short of time.
24:45So I'm going to ask both of you for a little bit of advice.
24:51Do, you know, if youths today are looking to make the kind of pivot that both of you make,
24:57what's the first small step that they have to take?
25:00What's your advice?
25:03Yeah, I'd say start with little steps.
25:06I think we're in a very lucky generation.
25:09I think all things considered of what we're saying.
25:10I think we're in a very lucky time where information is readily accessible.
25:15And so if you are thinking about these pivots, I think there are a lot of strategic ways in which
25:19you can test the pivots,
25:21get into the industry while still maintaining, let's say, a full-time corporate job without just quitting everything and then
25:27jumping into it.
25:27You know, one hour a day, learning about AI, watching YouTube videos.
25:31If you're commuting two hours per day each way in a car, listen to podcasts.
25:35There's ways to upskill yourself, get your way into that industry and to understand how it works before really making
25:40that big leap of faith.
25:42So I think be strategic with how you.
25:44Being resourceful as well, I guess.
25:45I mean, there's so much free information out there.
25:47So I think use it.
25:48Right.
25:48Afek, what about you?
25:49So I'll take it on two points.
25:51First one is a bit more spiritual.
25:54Have that very difficult talk with your parents if they're still around.
26:00Because beyond anything else, they know you best, actually, more than you do.
26:04So it is the same thought process as how when I wanted to start Grill Haven with my partner.
26:12I had that talk with them, that level of investment into the whole organization, the future planning.
26:18So that is number one, get their blessings.
26:22Number two is also make calculated risks.
26:27Right.
26:28Don't just jump into it without any plans.
26:30Let's see how it goes.
26:32It doesn't work most of the time.
26:34It doesn't work most of the time.
26:36So let's be practical, pragmatic about that.
26:38And always have a plan B.
26:41Because plan B, C, D, E, up to Z.
26:44Because you may never know if that plan fails you.
26:47You can always have that soft cushion impact if you fail.
26:51So always be prepared.
26:53I think both of you sort of, you know, share the same sentiment in this.
26:56In being resourceful one.
26:59And also, you know, don't just jump the gun and do it.
27:02But make sure that you study hard and you make sure that this is the right decision.
27:06And I would say check yourself first.
27:08You know, don't compare yourself with others as well.
27:10I think that's what a lot of people are doing.
27:12We discussed that just now.
27:13There's a lot of people are doing right now.
27:14You know, they see very successful entrepreneur, for example, and think,
27:18yeah, I can emulate that.
27:19Yeah, I can do that without checking, you know, where they are financially or emotionally or whatever.
27:25So, yeah, very good advice.
27:27And I'm pretty sure a lot of youths today who are thinking at the back of their head,
27:32you know, should I stay in this lane or should I explore something new?
27:35Or should I add into, you know, what I already have would take heed to what both of you are
27:42saying,
27:42especially looking back at both of your careers so far.
27:46So thank you so much, both of you, for sharing your insights today.
27:49Thanks for having me.
27:50Right. That's all the time we have, unfortunately.
27:52I'm pretty sure you both can meet these two people like Grill Heaven or even, you know, somewhere around.
27:59Yeah.
27:59I'll be at Grill Haven.
28:01We'll all be at Grill Haven.
28:03You're welcome.
28:03Grill Haven to have our burgers and sliders and maybe you can get more advice from them.
28:08Thank you so much to the people at home for watching.
28:11I'm Fahina Shay.
28:12Bye.
28:12Bye.
28:12Bye.
28:13Bye.
28:13Bye.
28:14Bye.
28:18Bye.
28:19Bye.
28:22Bye.
28:34уз
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