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Stay or move on? Two different career choices, one real conversation on how young Malaysians navigate work, growth, and expectations.
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00:07If you're a young worker today, chances are you've heard this before.
00:11Why are young people quitting so fast today?
00:14Recent reports suggest many youths are leaving their jobs after just 18 months,
00:18raising concerns among employers about loyalty, experience and long-term employability.
00:24I'm Raiman and you're watching It's About Youth Tonight
00:27where we ask, is job hopping the new normal?
00:30Joining me are two young professionals with different career paths.
00:34Aida Safiya, associate from Anatomy who has moved between roles more frequently
00:39and also Noor Adriana, events coordinator from Jiggy Events
00:43who has chosen to stay and grow within one organisation.
00:47Guys, thank you so much for joining me to unpack this conversation.
00:50Thanks for the invite.
00:51Maybe we'll start with you first Adriana.
00:54Sure.
00:54What initially made you decide to stay in your role and how did that decision evolve over time?
01:01So I started as an intern at the current company and I adapted quite quickly and well to the job
01:09scope.
01:10I felt that we were introduced to a few responsibilities early on
01:14and I felt that I caught on to it quite quickly.
01:18So from the very early start, I was very comfortable with the job scope and what I was learning there.
01:24And then over time, there was always new challenges that came about.
01:29Every single year that I have stayed, I have been there four years now.
01:33So every single year that I stayed, there were new challenges that came about and that's why I have chosen
01:38to stay.
01:39Now let's hear from someone who chose a different path.
01:42Aida, what usually triggers your decision to leave a job and how do you recognise that it is no longer
01:48the right place for you?
01:51I mean, if you look at the young people who have been invited to this segment, I think it's very
01:56obvious that young people nowadays, they're more aware and have more perspective about the world around us.
02:02People are more aware of work and labour.
02:04Like for example, young people have questions about division of labour in the household or conditions of migrant labour.
02:10So if young people are asking all these big questions about the world around them, you're going to land at
02:15asking those big questions for yourself, right?
02:18So I feel like for me, that's what usually triggers the feeling that I'm not in the right place, where
02:23I start asking, am I in the right place doing the right thing?
02:26And then an extension of that, am I at the best place I can be doing the best thing that
02:30I can do?
02:31So when I start asking those kinds of questions, then you're ultimately led to thinking, what can you do?
02:37And maybe I'll elaborate this more later, but what can you do with your toolbox?
02:41Because I believe that building a toolbox or toolboxes and having a mastery over your tools is more important than
02:48building a career in this day and age.
02:52Okay, now we want to look at how do we make sense of this.
02:55Adriana, why do you think staying longer at a job can still make sense for some young people, despite the
03:01growing trend of people changing jobs today that we're seeing today?
03:05I think it allows, at least since we are so young, it allows us opportunities and room for us to
03:13really shine and grow, right?
03:15Because if you stay longer, you know, people start to recognize how you work.
03:21And then I believe that, I would like to believe most companies, right, loyalty is rewarded, right?
03:28And whether when loyalty is rewarded, whether it's becoming like a promotion or better opportunities, then you have a bit
03:34more job security as well.
03:36So staying longer and I think the job security is very important because on the other side, there may be
03:44some uncertainty in the pathway.
03:47Whereas if you remain, then your life is sort of set in a way.
03:52And I doubt, from the other side, why do you think shorter stints around a year or so have become
03:59a workable option for young workers today compared to previous generations?
04:04Workable, eh? So I think that shorter tenures or shorter stints being workable to young people, it shouldn't be seen
04:10as like an individual choice wholly,
04:12but rather it's like a by-product of a landscape that has shifted for some time.
04:17So maybe I can elaborate this like two ways.
04:19I think one very simple way is young people feel less beholden to like company loyalty because of, like we're
04:25more polarized towards the fact that a stronger economy,
04:28the benefits of it doesn't flow, it seems to flow disproportionately.
04:32So not everyone feels those benefits.
04:34So they feel like if I'm not, you know, if it's not a reciprocal thing that I'm not, I don't
04:38have to be loyal.
04:39So that's like one very general prong of that statement.
04:42But I think the second dimension, which is a perspective that I feel like is more important that I can
04:47give, would be that,
04:49I'm pretty sure you can relate too, young talents nowadays, we enter the workforce after like a lifetime of like
04:56hyper stacking experiences.
04:59And hyper stacking like, there's like business pitch competitions, hackathons, public policy competitions.
05:04We have young people, not just leading organizations, but enabling organizations and like, you hyper stack these achievements.
05:11So what does that do to young people?
05:13It normalizes transitioning between one high stakes environment to the next.
05:17So you're already so used to this, especially if you come like from environments like certain schools are very active,
05:23certain universities,
05:24if you come from a circle of friends who are like that.
05:26So I think it's a bit like ironic that a lot of companies, they want you to stay when the
05:35only reason you're able to reach that standard that they want,
05:38is because when you were younger, you never stayed still.
05:40So it's quite ironic. So when you've been conditioned to always take on as much as you can doing different
05:47things,
05:47and also these projects and competitions and also like freelancing stuff you do,
05:53it not only normalizes transitioning from one high stake environment to another,
05:58but you also can prove that you can acquire, you have a rapid fire acquisition of new skills.
06:04So because of that, young people are not, are less afraid to quit.
06:10They're less afraid to transition because maybe that sort of fear of like security is also a reason.
06:14Previous generations might have been afraid of transitioning to a different role or industry.
06:19Okay, now I want to bring this conversation to about what each part builds over time.
06:23How has, I don't know, how has remaining in one workplace shaped your skills, responsibilities and understanding of your field
06:31in ways that perhaps those who have shortest things might not?
06:36Alright. So I work in an industry where I am exposed to opportunities across region, across the region, across Southeast
06:45Asia.
06:46So because of that, I am a lot more mindful in how I handle.
06:51So being in events, I don't only just handle events in Malaysia and handle vendors and others like clients in
06:59Malaysia.
07:00I handle international clients as well. And I think the biggest area of growth comes from communication
07:06because how we communicate as Malaysians is very different to, let's just say our neighbours,
07:12how we communicate to our neighbours in Singapore, just because the work culture there is different.
07:17So I think, despite me remaining in one workplace, I have a multitude of opportunities across region
07:26and that's how it's allowed me to grow.
07:29And Aida, how do you evaluate whether moving to a new job will actually move you forward or rather than
07:35just sideways or temporarily upward?
07:38That's a great question.
07:41Okay, so I believe in, so Hank Green, I think a science communicator and YouTube personality, I think he put
07:48it in a very straightforward way.
07:50He says like, don't follow your dreams, but follow your toolkit. So in Extension, if you do have a dream,
07:56maybe focus on building your toolbox or your toolkit and a career is going to be a by-product of
08:01that.
08:02So like whether you transition in a job, from jobs or you stay in the same job, what is a
08:08toolbox or toolkit?
08:09So it's not just the skills that you have, but it's also like a sense of purpose, a sense of
08:13autonomy.
08:14What are you curious about? Because those things are what's going to fuel you to adapt, like take on new
08:19skills or learn new things.
08:20So how I know whether I'm going to grow in a new role or whether I'm going to, in what
08:27ways do I grow is three ways.
08:29One, if I gain new tools for my toolbox, two, if I can create new toolboxes, maybe skills in different
08:36areas or three, just generally gain a mastery of my toolbox.
08:40Because that's what I bring from each different role or project. So, and I do prefer it again, it's a,
08:46it's a very subjective thing, right?
08:47Some people prefer to be known by like, for example, hi, I am a nurse or like, hi, I'm an
08:52accountant.
08:52But I prefer like wherever I go and whatever industry or role that I'm known for my toolbox.
08:58And that way you're reliable, not based on a title, but like what you can do.
09:03And culture also often plays a big role in this decision in terms of changing your jobs.
09:08Adriana, what factors have mattered most in sustaining your decision to stay in a company?
09:14Yeah.
09:15There are two main factors, I would like to say, I think the leadership and the, the leadership that I
09:23have with me allows me to really grow in my own way.
09:29And it's in the sense that like every, like every six months or every year we do these like one
09:36to one KPI talks, right?
09:40And B is very straightforward between my leader and I on how I can continue to grow and how he
09:50sees my potential in the company.
09:52So having that trust from your leader to know your potential, I think really drives me to want to achieve
10:03the potential.
10:03So I think those are the factors and then being, we're also like, so that's coming from like a personal
10:10career growth, right?
10:11And then obviously the workplace culture is a very good environment.
10:15We're, we're a smaller company, but we are all very close and it's a team based because we're in events,
10:21right?
10:21So you have to work as a team. So it's a very nice workplace culture.
10:25And switching jobs also shapes you personally.
10:28And Aida, what have you learned about yourself through switching jobs more often?
10:34I think the answer to that would be very logical.
10:37With more data points, you get a higher confidence level.
10:39So if more people tell you this is your strength, you're going to know that's your strength.
10:44But if more people tell you maybe this is an area you can fix, then that's, so you can direct
10:48your focus on what areas of your life or how you work that you can improve or that you can
10:53kind of ignore.
10:54Because it's not that important. But I think one key thing for where I'm currently at, which is at Anatomy,
11:01it's a local lifestyle brand.
11:03So it's the environment is more like a creative startup. It's very sandboxy.
11:08You don't really have like, you know, levels of hierarchy where your opinions or like your feedback won't matter as
11:17much.
11:17So I find that that was a priority in when I left my previous role. So when I left previous
11:21projects, I chose not to re-engage with previous clients.
11:25Because I find that I need the result of my work and my feedback to have like a tangible output.
11:30So it really depends on, so that's my priority currently, because I, yeah, so it's important that, because for young
11:38people, even if you've done a lot, there's still a lot for you to experience.
11:41So my priority at the moment is for me now.
11:47And both paths also comes with criticism, whether you change your job often or whether you stay too long.
11:53Now, Adriana, how do you respond to the idea that staying too long can limit exposure or slow career growth?
12:01You know how people say that if you want to get a better paying salary, then you change jobs.
12:07So how, based on your experience, how do you respond to that?
12:11Okay, this is very interesting because I was presented with this challenge multiple times.
12:18And like, in particular last year, when I hit about three years in the company, everyone started being like, oh,
12:26are you not going to change company?
12:28Are you not going to change to a different events company and all of that?
12:32I don't think exposure is, I think exposure is only limited if you don't seek, if you don't have the,
12:43if you lack the ambition, then to like seek the opportunities within your company.
12:50Like within your company, you, you don't bother knowing more about what it is they do or, you know, what
12:58are the different, maybe job, like other jobs that you may want to explore within the same company.
13:05I think if you lack the ambition, that's how your exposure is limited.
13:08Right. And then for me, my personal experience, since you mentioned salary, I think I am someone who is driven
13:18by passion and ambition.
13:20And my financial interests, lucky for me, have come second.
13:25And that is why that has not become a faltering factor.
13:28Though I do understand why it could be in this day and age.
13:33Yeah. And Aida, how do frequent transition affect the way you build skills, you know, personal identity and then long
13:40-term direction in terms of your career?
13:42Yeah. Yeah.
13:43I think professional identity is something that's curated.
13:49So if you have different toolboxes, different skill sets that you have, it's very, it's easier to, to curate a
13:57personal identity for more jobs, for more work that you want to do.
14:01Again, it's based on priority. If you're someone who really, if, if your role requires you to have, you know,
14:06become a subject matter expert, then it does make sense to stay longer at a certain project.
14:10But if your goal in life is different, that you want to try different things or you want to be
14:15like your end goal is someone who has this wide, broad skill set, then it's easier to do that by
14:22transitioning from different roles.
14:24But another thing would be, I think a concern that a lot of people have for people who transition jobs
14:31is that what if the next employer doesn't want to hire you?
14:34Because it seems that you jump a lot. That's a real concern because a lot of times people quit and
14:40it's an unwise quitting.
14:43But the thing is, I truly believe in the phrase that how you live your days is how you live
14:47your life.
14:48I know a lot of people say it's just a job, but if something is taking 40 to 50 hours
14:53of your waking hours every week, it shouldn't be relegated to just.
14:57So you should be transparent when you're trying to apply for a new job that how I lived my days
15:02before this is not how I want to live my life.
15:04And I feel like my experience is that the employers, especially my current employer, do understand that like I'm not
15:11going to like they won't measure you against what you did in the past because it's very clear what you
15:15wanted to do then is different than you now.
15:17And what you want to do in the future is what you have committed to, especially taking that risk of
15:21quitting or transitioning.
15:23I want to bring back to the one you mentioned, unwise quitting. You might elaborate more on that. What does
15:28it mean by unwise quitting?
15:30I think for young people, being wise is better. Like if you're trying to change jobs or taking a leap
15:36of faith, don't try to be smart.
15:38Don't be rash, but be wise. And wisdom is something that you gain both in your professional and personal life.
15:44So what does wisdom mean? Right. So it just means having as much insight as possible to make really sound
15:49decisions,
15:51to make decisions that, you know, by thinking of the cause and effect of your decisions.
15:55So a lot of people, yeah, maybe they quit out of some kind of like anxiety or FOMO or they,
16:02you know, you have to be rajin, don't be malas.
16:05So they don't want to work. So those kinds of quitting is unwise. You're not thinking of the cause and
16:10effect.
16:10You don't have total insight of what's happening and you're not, you're making an unsound decision.
16:13Yeah. And then of course, every decision has trade-offs like we discussed before.
16:19But Adriana, going specifically to you, what trade-offs have you had to accept by staying?
16:24And how do you decide those trade-offs were worth by staying in your job?
16:29Coming from a very intensive industry, I think everyone hears events and they're like scared by how intense it is.
16:36It is. I will admit it is a very intense industry. I've had to make certain lifestyle changes on how
16:44I spend my time.
16:46Because unfortunately, I am not your standard nine to five. I have very late working hours and all of that.
16:52So that means I need to plan my time in a way that, I know I have to, I've had
16:59to rejig what I like to do into my time.
17:03So obviously my work has become first. My family is there.
17:07And then everything else in terms of my lifestyle, my hobbies and all of that, I didn't have as much
17:13time in the first maybe one year or two years.
17:17Because I was very like career focused. I was like work, work, work, work, work. But then I would say
17:22last year, in the past one year and a half, I was like, okay, this is what I want to
17:29do.
17:29I know I'm going to stay. How am I going to change my lifestyle so that it's more, I am
17:36more sustaining in the future, in the long run, sorry.
17:39Because I still need to maintain my health. I still need to take care of my family. You know, there
17:45are certain hobbies I still want to spend time on.
17:48And so it's about me. That's like my biggest lifestyle change is how I've had to adapt my time to
17:55surround my work while still balancing everything else.
17:59Yeah, it's interesting. Aida, you mentioned before as well, like there's this risk of when you, for job switching, that
18:08often that you, when you go to an interview, when you know, the interviewer will say that this person is
18:14changing job that often.
18:16So that's one of the risks. So how do you manage this risk? Because the risk of people usually associate
18:22with short tenures.
18:23Yeah, for me personally, never, always have a backup plan. Do not do anything without a backup plan. And that's
18:30how I've managed risk.
18:31So instead of having like one job in this industry or role and another job in this industry or role,
18:37like I said, take time and, you know, to build a toolbox.
18:40So you have multiple projects or roles in the same industry or in the same skill set. So in that
18:48way, you build what's very prominent is your passion in that skill set,
18:52even though it's multiple. So your passion towards that, your consistency and also your determination in order to fully master
18:58that skill set alongside others.
19:00Instead of it looking like someone who's just doing whatever they can or trying to run away from something.
19:06It looks like someone who's, I have a friend who said this recently, someone who's polymathic.
19:10I know it seems obnoxious to call yourself a polymath, which just means someone who does a lot of things
19:14and is good at a lot of them.
19:15So, but I mean, as human beings, isn't that something that you aspire to do, aspire to be? Not everyone
19:20has to do that.
19:21But it's a good feeling to be able to learn, especially when we're young.
19:25Because once you're like a certain age, you don't have that mental capacity, physical capacity anymore.
19:31You'll have commitments, other bigger commitments. So this is the age for experimenting. That's what I think.
19:37Okay guys, let's end this conversation by looking ahead. As the job market changes, Adriana, how do you think young
19:45people should decide themselves whether staying or living is the better move at a particular stage of their career?
19:52Your advice to them?
19:53I would honestly say that you have to come down to your own personal goals. I think with so much
20:02stimuli now with like the news and social media and all of that, we are so easily influenced by other
20:10factors.
20:10But I think it's very important to stay focused on what are your goals? What do you want to do,
20:16right? What do you, if you feel that you want to explore a new career, right, a new job, a
20:23new company, you must question yourself why?
20:25What are you seeking from that opportunity, right? And if you're planning to stay, likewise, what are your goals? You
20:32must have goals, you must have directions, and I think that is the best way for you to make that
20:38decision.
20:40And I thought, last word from you, do you see yourself, how do you see yourself moving forward now? Are
20:44you going to continue, keep moving, switching jobs, or how?
20:48At the point, I like where I am. I'm definitely growing a lot, and there's a lot for me to
20:53learn. I guess whether I move forward or whether I change, I think two things would be, one, I hope
20:59to become wiser, and I think that's also what young people can, like, find out what is wisdom to you
21:05as a young person, what would a wiser version of yourself do,
21:08and also figure out what's in your toolbox, and what would you look like if you can consider yourself a
21:13master of your tools that you have, and bring that with you whether you're advancing to the next level in
21:18the same role, or whether you're going to change to the next role.
21:21I don't know. Aida, thank you so much for joining us today in It's About Youth, and I guess that's
21:26all the time that we have for tonight's episode.
21:28I guess there's no right decision in terms of staying, or living into this job switching, or also staying in
21:34the job for a very long time, as long as you are sure that you're happy in the position, and
21:38also that you can grow, and you can learn a lot of things.
21:41But the most important thing is whether you're happy in the job, right?
21:44Correct. Definitely.
21:46That's all the time that we have for tonight's episode on It's About Youth.
21:48I'm Amreiman. Thank you for watching, and good night.
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