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My Killer Father: The Green Hollow Murders - Season 1 Episode 3 - TBD
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00:01We got underneath this tree and I said, shit, Don, this will be a fucking graveyard.
00:05He says it is.
00:07I finally have a chance to be out in the hills with the right equipment, with the right team.
00:13My specialty is in forensic anthropology.
00:16That's an alert.
00:17We are death investigators.
00:19I want to be creating the crime scene to see where do the shell casings go.
00:25I saw my dad slamming that lady's head into the arm of the couch.
00:31There's no doubt she was dead.
00:33I am honored that I'm able to tell your mom's story.
00:36No one's ever going to convince me that the bodies aren't up here.
00:39I just haven't found them yet.
00:40They're not lying.
00:41I'm not lying.
00:43I came up here tonight to defend my family against your fat little mouth.
00:47Do you think I like trying to prove that my dad's a criminal and a murderer and nobody believing me?
00:52What you've been looking for all these years is sitting right behind you under the ground.
01:02Police in western Iowa are searching for any sign of a serial killer.
01:12The woman claims her late plot are killed at least 50 women and used his children to help bury them.
01:22And there's no devil going to be where people.
01:27LT HERMAS этом wanna be where we go.
01:48Hi.
01:49How are you doing?
01:51Want a picture of this beautiful?
01:53You know, I was named after Marilyn Monroe.
02:12I, uh, hesitated to have this conversation with anybody because of Lucy, because I don't
02:21like her.
02:22She told lies about me, but I need these things to come out because there's, they're eating
02:32me alive.
02:36I was a seventh of seven children.
02:39I was born a studie and Donald Dean's studie with my brother, my oldest brother.
02:48My mom was a prostitute, and she used to get to town and go to bars and leave us kids
02:57alone.
02:57Don was the only one there.
03:00We were very close.
03:01It was almost like I was his daughter.
03:04He would say, little girl, I was there when you were born.
03:07I watched you take your first breath.
03:10He loved me all my life.
03:13He'd been there.
03:14He was kind of like my guardian angel.
03:17When we didn't have money for pill trips at school, Don came up with the money.
03:22When I was dating, he'd tell me, that guy's not for you.
03:26I don't want you dating him.
03:27He actually, wives, actually killed somebody because of me.
03:38One day, we were coming home.
03:40We stopped to get gas, and the guy was pumping the gas.
03:45I looked at him, oh, shit.
03:47I put my head down like this, and Don, he says, what's wrong?
03:51What is wrong?
03:52There's something wrong.
03:54And I said, that's one of the guys that raped me, Don.
03:57He said, look at him real good.
04:01Make damn sure that's him.
04:03So, he got out of the car and followed the man to the inside of the gas station.
04:09There was nobody else around.
04:10And I could see Don beating him or something.
04:13Got in the cash register and took all the money.
04:15Came back out of the car.
04:17He says, he'll never rape anybody else.
04:20We drove away.
04:22I kept my mouth shut.
04:24Anything Don did, I never told.
04:27I loved him more than anything in this world.
04:29All my life, he's in there.
04:33How many people did you see Don kill?
04:42Two.
04:44I know the names, but I can't tell you the names, because my life would be in jeopardy.
04:52So long ago right now, I don't believe you did.
04:54No, no.
04:57I'm on parole.
04:58I've got to be careful.
05:01How many people do you think Don killed?
05:04I couldn't begin to tell you.
05:11Maybe a hundred?
05:14Didn't bother him.
05:16He was like, dead inside.
05:19Like Ted Bundy and all these other killers.
05:22They were born that way.
05:25Killing don't bother them.
05:30One time, he took me up on the hill.
05:33I don't know exactly where it was.
05:36We got underneath this tree, and we were talking.
05:38I looked around, and I said,
05:40Shit, Don, this is like a fucking graveyard.
05:43He says, it is.
05:49Lucy is telling the truth.
05:51I know 100% in my heart
05:54that if they dug up that well,
05:57they're going to find out she was right.
06:10Today is the day that we excavate, hopefully, two wells.
06:15I'm excited that I finally have a chance
06:18to be out in the hills with the right equipment,
06:22a forensic team, and an excavation team.
06:29The property owner is a man named Sean Smith.
06:34My dad always told us,
06:37Do not trust a fucking Smith.
06:40And as a kid, we came across a lot of marijuana
06:44growing on Smith's property.
06:47They had a good-sized operation going,
06:50and my dad took advantage of that.
06:53If Smith would have never touched the land,
06:56I could have walked right up to the wells again.
06:59He has bulldozed and destroyed,
07:03and nobody has stopped him.
07:14My dad took bodies up from our ravine.
07:21And this is the road that Smith bulldozed
07:26for the FBI and DCI.
07:29Look at him laughing.
07:31Look at him.
07:33Watch. He'll be laughing. See?
07:36Yeah.
07:37I came up, and I showed him
07:39exactly where the wells are,
07:41and this is what he's done.
07:42Yeah.
07:48Lucy has bad-mouthed me,
07:51done so much, so many texts,
07:53talking about how much she hated me
07:54and how much bad I was.
07:57All I did was take a dozer,
07:58and I made a path for him to get down there.
08:02Was there a family rivalry around marijuana
08:04or anything like that?
08:06No.
08:07The marijuana thing is something we just heard of
08:09since Lucy has brought this up.
08:11My dad was a straight person,
08:13and he'd be the last person in the world
08:14to have anything to do with drugs.
08:16I still think she dealt with stuff
08:18when she was a kid that traumatized her.
08:22I don't think she knows where everything's located,
08:26but I 100% believe there's something up here.
08:33Over here.
08:42This tree that's been cut down,
08:44when I was up here with my dad,
08:46I'd lean up against this tree.
08:48The well was here.
08:49So this is the spot?
08:51It's got to be here.
08:53Good.
08:54Okay.
08:54Excellent.
08:57That's going to rain like a cow
08:59pissing on a flat rock.
09:02My name is William R. Belcher,
09:04and I'm an associate professor
09:05at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln.
09:08My specialty is in forensic anthropology.
09:11I've been running excavations
09:14for over 30 years.
09:16I think it's going to be here.
09:19My expectation is that
09:22if we find the well
09:23and are able to excavate it safely,
09:25that we will recover human remains.
09:34On this particular case
09:36with Dom Studi,
09:38we contacted
09:39different agencies,
09:41family members,
09:43old girlfriends,
09:44to see if,
09:46you know,
09:46there was any truth to this.
09:48And they're all like,
09:50yes.
09:52Everything added up
09:53to this being
09:54a very violent man
09:56who would beat
09:57and kill
09:59at the drop of a hat.
10:02I'm excited to see
10:04what we find.
10:05I've been working on this story
10:06for two and a half years,
10:08and there's no resolution,
10:10so maybe we can get to that point.
10:13Okay, let's go to work.
10:15Joe, Joe!
10:18My name is Jim Peters,
10:20and I have a business
10:22known as Samaritan Detection Dogs.
10:24We travel around the Midwest
10:27looking for dead men,
10:30missing people.
10:31I do believe there are human remains
10:32on that land.
10:33I just don't know
10:34if they're historic.
10:36Let's go.
10:36There isn't a differentiation
10:39in the odor
10:40from somebody
10:42that's been dead
10:4310 minutes,
10:4410 years,
10:44or 1,000 years.
10:46That's an alert.
10:48No.
10:50That's an alert.
10:55Well?
10:56What'd you find?
10:57Both dogs had interest
11:00from those root balls
11:02over to the vicinity
11:04of that stump,
11:05and really no place else.
11:07Okay.
11:14Being around my dad,
11:15you always wondered
11:15when you were gonna die.
11:20My dad is properly buried
11:22in a cemetery,
11:23and he doesn't deserve that.
11:25These people do.
11:29In the will
11:30that's on the left hill,
11:34there's two women in there.
11:36They're mid-30 to 35.
11:39I know they're in there.
11:41I saw them.
11:46Lucy, where are you going?
11:49There's a right hill well.
11:53The well
11:54that was to the right
11:56of my dad's trailer.
11:57I know there's two men in there.
11:59I believe there's a guy named Gordon
12:01in that well, too.
12:04I've been trying to tell people
12:06about my dad
12:07ever since I can remember.
12:09One time,
12:10I went to school
12:11and told the teacher.
12:14I was second grade in 77,
12:17and she told the principal.
12:21My dad convinced them
12:22that it was all a lie,
12:24and it's because my mom died.
12:26He had this whole little speech worked out.
12:29He was pretty convincing.
12:32We made it back to Green Hollow,
12:36and he yanked me out of the car
12:37and continued beating me
12:39into the trailer house.
12:41He picked me up
12:42off the floor
12:45and had me by the neck,
12:47and he had me against the wall,
12:49and he just kept choking me.
12:52I remember hearing,
12:54Dad, Dad, you're killing her.
12:57And Gary was on one arm,
12:59and Susan was on the other arm
13:01trying to stop Dad.
13:05They broke Dad's hold on me,
13:07and I remember dropping down.
13:11I thought I was dead.
13:15My beatings were mostly
13:17when I didn't shut up.
13:21Why didn't I shut up?
13:27He told me there's not a person
13:29in that will
13:29that didn't fucking deserve it.
13:37Basically, what you have
13:38ultimately in this
13:39is really two different cases.
13:42You have the issue
13:42of whether Don Studi
13:44was a serial killer
13:45that preyed on transient women
13:47and then disposed of them in as well,
13:50and a guy that,
13:51for whatever reason,
13:53gets tired of a particular wife
13:55and kills her.
13:58I'm Stuart Fillmore.
13:59I'm a retired FBI agent.
14:01I served from 1987 to 2016.
14:04I spent my entire career,
14:06those 29 years,
14:07doing field investigations.
14:09I was what was called
14:10a street agent.
14:11I was asked for my assessment
14:13of the police reports,
14:15the original autopsy file,
14:18the second autopsy
14:19that had been done.
14:21To me, it's a puzzle
14:22to try to solve
14:23and visualize
14:24what is the autopsy,
14:26what is it telling you,
14:28and how does this fit together.
14:31My name is Dr. Jan Gorniak,
14:33and I'm a board-certified
14:34forensic pathologist.
14:37I'm totally independent.
14:39I can read the signs,
14:43but the body's really
14:44going to tell the story.
14:46We are death investigators.
14:48Everything that we do,
14:50every case that comes in,
14:51is a puzzle.
14:52That's the part I like,
14:54and then also being able
14:55to give family answers
14:57to help them understand,
14:59you know,
15:00why their loved one
15:00has passed.
15:02My passion
15:03are suicide deaths.
15:06Those are the ones
15:08that are so sudden
15:09and so unexpected
15:11that family members
15:12sometimes don't want
15:13to believe
15:14that's their cause
15:15or their manner of death.
15:17So it's important
15:19that we tell the story
15:20and we tell it right.
15:22Family members
15:23have a difficult time
15:24accepting their loved one
15:25and died by their own hands.
15:27How many times
15:29have you come across
15:30in the history of your career
15:31a woman who committed suicide
15:34out of a firearm?
15:37A lot,
15:38and those are those myths
15:39that women won't use a firearm
15:41to kill themselves.
15:44Firearms are the number one killer
15:46and the method
15:47that people use for suicide.
15:51That's number one.
15:53Number one.
16:02The issue with Charlotte,
16:05I mean,
16:05the whole reason
16:06the police get there
16:07is because Don calls them.
16:10They seem to just take
16:12Don Studi's word.
16:14You know,
16:15he tells them
16:15they had fought
16:16and she had threatened
16:18suicide before.
16:19She had a drinking problem.
16:22She had grabbed her rifle.
16:25In fact,
16:26they end up giving the rifle
16:27back to him
16:28a couple months later.
16:30There wasn't a lot
16:31of attention to detail
16:32that some of the normal procedures
16:34that should have been done
16:35weren't done,
16:36like checking previous criminal history.
16:40This was not ever seriously
16:42looked at as anything
16:43other than a suicide.
16:45They could have just completely
16:48arrived at the scene,
16:50saw this man as the husband,
16:52everything on the surface
16:54looks consistent with the suicide.
16:56Case closed.
17:00So here's a real problem for me.
17:03Some stippling was found
17:05on Charlotte's elbow.
17:07This was February in Omaha.
17:10It's going to be cold
17:11and she had a jacket on.
17:13If you're wearing a jacket,
17:15you're not going to have
17:16stippling on your arm.
17:18That to me is a huge problem.
17:21That further implies
17:22that we may be dealing
17:23with a staged crime scene.
17:26Another thing that's
17:28somewhat suspicious is
17:29when Don finds Charlotte,
17:32you know,
17:33he doesn't break a window.
17:34And also we know
17:36from the report,
17:37Don Studi drives home.
17:39That just tells me
17:40there's not a lot
17:41of urgency there.
17:43I'm just going to go back home
17:44and make the call.
17:46So that doesn't add up.
17:48What we found out
17:49is this is a 612 page
17:51FBI report.
17:52The 612 pages,
17:55OK,
17:55that's that's an enormous
17:57FBI file.
17:58This guy was
17:59either an arch criminal
18:01of some kind
18:02or a longtime criminal
18:04that was involved
18:05in so many things
18:06that the FBI ran across
18:08that his name
18:08always ended up
18:09in reports.
18:10One of the most famous cases
18:12in the FBI
18:13was John Dillinger.
18:14The FBI brand
18:16was built
18:17on the fact
18:17that they got Dillinger.
18:19And his file
18:20might be just
18:21over a thousand pages.
18:22So my point is
18:23that even with
18:25one of the most famous cases
18:26that the FBI worked
18:27is just a little bit longer
18:29than Donald Studi's case.
18:32Something's going on here.
18:33All these suspicious things
18:35about Donald Studi
18:37and then you have
18:38this question of either
18:40do you have
18:40incompetent police investigation
18:42or a corrupt investigation.
18:45It makes it
18:46an even more compelling story
18:48and I think
18:48it's an important one
18:50to tell
18:50and to further investigate.
19:07not made for an old man.
19:11One of the things
19:12that we found
19:13in Pinterest
19:13if you look at
19:15this darker
19:16brown material
19:18versus this tan material
19:19we've got a definite line
19:20we've got color changes
19:22it may be a well shaft
19:24but we certainly
19:25are beginning to see
19:26the shape of something
19:27that's sort of boboid.
19:31This has got to be a
19:33there's an overhang
19:39and that dead white tree
19:40has been there forever.
19:41We'll continue working
19:42and see what we can get.
19:53I've got them
19:54it was hard
19:55but
19:56this is my well
19:58you know
19:59I've sat by this well
20:00so many times
20:01and I
20:02thought this was
20:03going to be
20:03my burial site
20:05I just want
20:06these people up
20:08nobody deserves
20:09to be thrown in a well
20:10and forgotten about
20:17but if you don't mind
20:18I'd like to just
20:19spend some time here
20:19Paul without your camera
20:21or you
20:22you got it
20:22okay
20:22you got it
20:23thank you
20:31I used to talk
20:33to the people
20:34in the well
20:34and I made them
20:35a promise
20:37that I would
20:38bring them up
20:38that I would
20:39make sure that
20:41you know
20:42people knew about them
20:52as a kid
20:54I saw
20:55my dad
20:56slamming that lady's head
20:58into the
20:59arm of the couch
21:01and he was
21:02just slamming her
21:04hard
21:05and then she just went limp
21:10another lady
21:11he killed
21:12on the living room floor
21:14he was stomping her head in
21:16kicking her rib
21:17she stopped moving
21:19there's no doubt
21:20she was dead
21:23I feel personally
21:24responsible
21:25for some of those women
21:26I could have screamed
21:28yelled hollered
21:29I could have tried
21:29to force dad off
21:31you know
21:31I could have
21:33you know
21:34I'll be honest
21:35my dad
21:37did murder on purpose
21:39but not always
21:44dad's complicated
21:47I did love him
21:50I think you could love
21:51and hate someone
21:52at the same time
22:15I wanted to come here
22:16and pay my respects
22:18to my father
22:20he is at peace
22:22that's one thing
22:22I'm thankful for
22:26here's my father
22:29my stepmother
22:30used to be here
22:32but my sister
22:33had her
22:34had her body
22:35dug up for no reason
22:36all for a lie
22:38may they be together
22:40forever
22:42I know
22:43he truly loved her
22:46he wasn't evil
22:48and he was no murderer
22:53the truth will come out
22:54sooner or later
22:55I want to prove
22:56Lucy wrong
22:58she's the one
22:59that drug me
22:59and my family
23:00into this mess
23:01and I want to be
23:02the one to get us
23:02out of it
23:07I don't know
23:08how to prove
23:09what I'm saying
23:10is true
23:10except
23:10just to keep talking
23:12I mean
23:14it's been a nightmare
23:20God knows
23:20we don't need
23:21any more damage done
23:24you can scour
23:24every inch
23:25of those grounds
23:26there is nothing there
23:28nothing whatsoever
23:29there will be
23:30nothing found
23:47it's morbid
23:48praying for a bone
23:50you know
23:50that means
23:51somebody died
23:55and yourself
23:59do you think
24:00that that staining
24:01disappeared
24:02pretty quickly
24:15Lucy
24:15when we
24:16were able to
24:17identify
24:17that sort of
24:17oval stain
24:18that we thought
24:19it was a pit
24:20that was dug
24:20but it's
24:22it seems to be
24:23very ephemeral
24:24it has disappeared
24:26okay
24:28and you don't
24:29think it's a will
24:30right now
24:31I think that
24:32the stain
24:32has disappeared
24:35there's nothing
24:36here that we
24:36could see
24:42I'm disappointed
24:43it's not the will
24:59how did Don
25:00get away
25:02with doing
25:03all the things
25:03you say he did
25:05how'd he get
25:06away with it
25:09well
25:13he could convince
25:14you of anything
25:15my brother Don
25:16is a very strange
25:17person
25:18he's quiet
25:19you never made
25:20jokes
25:20he never laughed
25:22he studied
25:23people
25:26he's always
25:27very smart
25:28when it comes
25:28to people
25:30people are scared
25:30of him
25:31I've got
25:32Bartlett
25:34my brother Don
25:35was always violent
25:38yes
25:39yes
25:40you want to
25:40talk about
25:41Lucy now
25:44so this one
25:45day
25:45Pat and I
25:46had to go
25:46to Denver
25:47we decided
25:48we're going to
25:49surprise Don
25:49Lucy
25:50and go see
25:51them
25:53well when we
25:54pulled up
25:55to their house
25:56there's all kinds
25:57of people outside
25:58the house
26:00what's going
26:00on here
26:01oh my god
26:02Susan grabbed me
26:03he says how did
26:04you know
26:07I said
26:07you know what
26:09Lucy killed
26:09herself last
26:10night
26:11they are
26:12shitting me
26:14I went
26:15in the house
26:15Lucy
26:15Don
26:16I'm looking
26:17there ain't
26:18nobody there
26:18the kids
26:19aren't there
26:21something
26:21wasn't right
26:24it looked like
26:25they were in a
26:25fight
26:25the furniture
26:27was toppled
26:29and it was
26:30gone
26:30awful smell
26:33the smell
26:33of death
26:34in the kitchen
26:35because it was
26:36in the kitchen
26:36closet
26:37where she's
26:37hung
26:38it was
26:39it was like
26:40a kitchen
26:42storage place
26:43for food
26:44but it had
26:45like a
26:46clothes thing
26:47you know
26:48Lucy's about
26:49the same size
26:50as me
26:52if I
26:53if I had
26:53hung
26:54in there
26:55I could
26:56have put
26:56my feet
26:56down
26:57and stopped
26:58the thing
27:02Don told me
27:03what really
27:04went down
27:05the night
27:06that happened
27:07they had been
27:07out drinking
27:09that right
27:10there told me
27:11Don was not
27:12in his right
27:13mind
27:14Don had
27:15alcohol on him
27:16he's a different
27:16human being
27:18and I said
27:19Donnie
27:21did you
27:21kill Lucy
27:24he looks
27:24at me
27:25he says
27:26she said
27:26she's going
27:27to take
27:27my kids
27:27and leave
27:28and I
27:28couldn't
27:29have that
27:32that's not
27:32exactly what
27:33he told me
27:35I can't
27:36begin to
27:36tell you
27:38how it
27:38hurts me
27:39to talk
27:39to you
27:40and actually
27:41admit to you
27:43he's been
27:43accused of
27:44he really
27:44did
27:46I know
27:47he did
27:55when I
27:56evaluated
27:57all the
27:57police reports
27:58I mean
27:59the one
27:59thing that
28:00jumped out
28:00at me
28:01was
28:01the location
28:02of the
28:02shell casing
28:04it was
28:05found on
28:05the seat
28:06beside
28:06Charlotte
28:07under her
28:08arm
28:09if this
28:10is a
28:10suicide
28:10it's unlikely
28:12that empty
28:13shell casing
28:13could end up
28:14on the seat
28:15much less
28:15under her
28:15arm
28:17she's holding
28:18it out
28:18in this manner
28:19somehow
28:20that shell
28:21casing's
28:21going forward
28:22it's going
28:22to be some
28:23fantastic timing
28:24for her to
28:25shoot herself
28:26that rifle
28:27and her arms
28:27are just
28:28going to
28:28collapse
28:29okay
28:29and that
28:30shell casing
28:31to have
28:31time
28:31to
28:33go forward
28:34bounce off
28:34something
28:35and then come
28:36back and end
28:36up under
28:37her arm
28:37beside her
28:38with the gun
28:39and everything
28:40now in her
28:40lap
28:43so I
28:44wanted to
28:44recreate
28:45the crime
28:45scene
28:46to see
28:46where do
28:47the shell
28:47casings go
28:48we couldn't
28:49find the exact
28:50model car
28:51but we have
28:52one with
28:53almost exact
28:54dimensions
28:55and then
28:56we have a
28:57model 60
28:58marlin rifle
28:59that was found
29:00in Charlotte's
29:01lap
29:12I was asked
29:13to be part
29:14of this
29:14recreation
29:15because my
29:16dimensions
29:17of my arm
29:18length
29:18was matched
29:19my mother's
29:20and I'm about
29:20her same
29:21height
29:22okay
29:22okay
29:23what I want
29:23you to do
29:24is
29:24maneuver
29:25manipulate
29:26that rifle
29:27yes
29:28okay
29:29so that's
29:29it
29:30that's consistent
29:31with the
29:31wound path
29:32and what
29:33happens if
29:34you just
29:34absolutely
29:34go limp
29:35right there
29:35everything
29:36goes limp
29:36so it ends
29:37up in your
29:37lap
29:38with your
29:38hand under
29:39the rifle
29:39and that's
29:40it
29:41to me
29:41that's
29:42the best
29:42guess
29:42this is how
29:43we want
29:44to now test
29:44the ejection
29:45of the
29:45shell casings
29:46I want
29:47to now fire
29:48up to 50
29:49rounds or so
29:50to see
29:51where that
29:52shell casing
29:53goes each
29:53time
29:53what does
29:55it bounce
29:55off the
29:55dashboard
29:56windshield
29:56does it
29:57go straight
29:57down to
29:57the floor
29:58I'm thinking
29:59if we have
30:00five shell
30:01casings
30:01that end up
30:02on that
30:02seat
30:02it's going
30:03to surprise
30:03me
30:04I think
30:05our test
30:05is going
30:06to reveal
30:06it's not
30:06going to
30:07end up
30:07there
30:07at all
30:08we're
30:08going to
30:09start
30:09the
30:09firing
30:09live
30:10rounds
30:10so
30:11there's
30:11two
30:11people
30:12touching
30:12this
30:12gun
30:13only two
30:13people
30:13touching
30:14this
30:14gun
30:14that is
30:15Stuart
30:15and Paul
30:17we can
30:18shoot up to
30:1948 rounds
30:20here
30:21may not take
30:21that many
30:22to establish
30:22what we're
30:23trying to do
30:25ready
30:28safety's
30:28off
30:41okay
30:42five rounds
30:43one went
30:44forward
30:44in the
30:44driver's
30:45floor
30:46the other
30:47four
30:47went
30:48straight
30:48down
30:49bounced
30:50off
30:50the glove
30:50box
30:51straight
30:51on the
30:51end
30:51of
30:51the
30:52floor
30:52so
30:53we'll do
30:53five
30:53more
30:54yeah
30:54I think
30:55it was
30:56almost
30:5640 rounds
30:57through this
30:57gun
30:58you know
30:59we did
30:59every angle
31:00we could
31:00think of
31:01we even
31:02pointed the
31:03gun a
31:03specific way
31:04trying to
31:04get it
31:05to bounce
31:05off like
31:06the windshield
31:06to go
31:07to the
31:07seat
31:13still
31:13everything
31:14went to
31:15the floor
31:16what do we
31:17know
31:17well
31:19in a
31:20position
31:21where
31:21reasonably
31:21maybe
31:22the
31:22shell casing
31:23could end
31:23up on
31:23the
31:23seat
31:24we could
31:25not
31:25recreate
31:26that
31:27what we
31:28know is
31:28in the
31:28official
31:29report
31:29is
31:30inconsistent
31:30with this
31:31test
31:32and to
31:32me
31:32is more
31:33consistent
31:34that this
31:34was
31:34staged
31:46hello
31:47can you
31:47hear me
31:48okay
31:49that's my
31:50mama's
31:50name
31:50marie
31:51charlotte
31:51dawn
31:52dawn
31:53okay
31:54and hi
31:54i'm
31:54jan
31:54i'm
31:55dr
31:55gorniak
31:56so this
31:57is a
31:57case
31:58with
31:58about
31:58your
31:58your
31:59mom
31:59yes
32:00so it
32:01came in
32:01as a
32:02suicide
32:02but
32:04it is my
32:05opinion
32:05that that could not have been a self-inflicted
32:08i would have ruled i would have ruled this case a homicide from the beginning
32:14based on the wound that she has the police reports and how the weapon was found
32:22it can't be a suicide in order for the the weapon to have been in her hands that way
32:28it hadn't been placed there
32:29it hadn't been placed there
32:33exhale exhale exhale
32:36it's okay
32:37it's been a long time coming
32:40yeah
32:40sure has
32:41thank you
32:42thank you so much
32:44you are so welcome
32:46i personally don't like the word exposure but more of a piece
32:50yes
32:52in our world we also say to the living we owe respect to the dead we owe the truth
32:57yeah
32:57i am honored that i'm able to you know tell your mom's story the way it should have been told
33:04years ago
33:04yes thank you
33:08this is just not a case this is somebody's loved one
33:13and knowing how long it has been for charlotte's daughters
33:20now they're going to be able to to be able to move forward
33:23and to grieve mom
33:41we've got a limited amount of time for today
33:43we haven't found anything here that matches um the stories and the recollection of lucy
33:49so lucy
33:50there is a right hill well
33:53you know there are bodies in there
33:54yes
33:56and sean that's where you dug already
33:58yes
33:58do you believe there's a well where you dug
34:00no there's definitely not a well there
34:02are there any other wells over there
34:03there's no spot i have found
34:05that possibly could be something i could show you
34:08i mean this is it lucy this is it
34:10you got one more day
34:11you want to spend the time on the right hill well
34:13right here well
34:30what is this that we're looking at
34:32this is what i call the right hill dry well
34:34this is the one i walked up to by memory
34:37the stick yes okay
34:40when we dug in it was virgin soil all the way
34:42there was no signs of a well
34:45lucy i think that if we dig here because
34:48much of this dirt has been removed
34:49i don't think we're going to find
34:51uh anything in this area i think that
34:55this is the only spot that we put bodies in
34:57and lie in
34:59now dad did mention that from there somewhere up there used to be a clearing
35:05over here in the tree line
35:07let's go check this we've got a matter of hours
35:11okay
35:15it's up this way just a little farther
35:17okay
35:20do you think you know where that well is up here
35:23all i do i found a spot up here
35:25where is it right here
35:30i said we try it
35:31yeah
35:34if your dad did the things you say he did
35:37it's entirely possible that what you've been looking for
35:41all these years
35:42is sitting right behind you under the ground
35:47let's dig it
35:58i have no doubt in my mind about what happened as a child
36:02what i remember happened i'm not a liar i didn't hallucinate
36:06i know what happened
36:08i do not understand how you could hurt and kill so many people
36:17and leave a path of destruction
36:20like he did
36:21and get away with it
36:29nothing to get i'm sorry
36:31nothing
36:35no
36:35i think that we're done here
36:42in my opinion we've exhausted everything that we we have right now
36:48my life would be so much better if i could move on
36:54do you think i like living with the memories that i have
36:59i don't
37:03do you think i like trying to prove that my dad's a criminal and a murderer and nobody believing me
37:10it's like
37:12how many times can you beat your head against a brick wall over and over and over and just
37:27i want to make sure that we're covering all the bases we're here till the sun goes down so we
37:33do have time to dig in this area around the stick
37:40thank you everybody for standing out in the rain getting cold to satisfy my right heel will i know that's
37:47my right heel will
37:53all i wanted was to be on the land with the right equipment and the right expert the fbi never
38:01allowed me to be up here you know smith never allowed me to be up here but i'm up here
38:05now
38:11you said you said you said we'd be up here together to do the well you said you did it
38:19for your cows but the tree line got torn up and you removed all those trees and stuff
38:27i know the bodies are up here and i know my wells
38:34it just would have been easier if we could have worked together
38:37now i would work with you but if you're going to start this stuff
38:41this will be done
38:42you turned what i believe is my right heel will
38:46into a cow pond
38:47and i wondered is that like a middle finger to me
38:50you don't know shit everything else you showed has been fake
38:53bullshit
38:55bullshit
38:55bullshit
38:56i have walked that property line from the start and i end up in the same fucking place
39:01you didn't know what you were talking about
39:03i hope you can live with yourself leaving bodies in a well
39:12right now i don't see anything here
39:14nothing
39:15this has to be the spot
39:17but maybe i'm off
39:20no one's ever going to convince me
39:21that the bodies aren't up here i just haven't found them yet
39:25i don't give a fuck what people think about me
39:28i don't care if the world calls me a liar i don't care if they call me crazy
39:37i told them i would get them out of the well
39:41i just
39:43tried to keep her promise
39:45and all i got was my stepmom charlotte up
39:48my mom's in the ground
39:50the bodies are still up here
39:55i think that you have kept your promise of doing the best that you can
40:00they're really up here they are
40:02and what's her
40:32been up here. I think I despise Lucy more than I do anybody in this world.
40:39After the way she's made me and my family suffer for the last two years, this
40:44needs to end. I want to face her. I want to prove to everybody that she's
40:51lied from the from the very first day.
41:10Hi. Hi Susan. It's nice to see you. Where's the so-called hookers, huh?
41:17Where's your bodies at, Lucy? Oh, there's no bodies up here, you dumb cow.
41:24You can call me every name in the book, Susan. Oh, let me guess. It doesn't matter to me. Oh,
41:27I know.
41:28Isn't that weird though? Growing up, you and dad were the best of friends, remember? We were never
41:32the best of friends. Oh, yes, you were. Oh, daddy. Oh, he loved you. He loved you and you know
41:40it.
41:40I came up here to get the bodies and to kill my allegations. And I came up here tonight to
41:45defend
41:45my family against your fat little mouth. Well, what about, oh, dad was never abusive. What? You
41:50mean getting hit with a belt is abuse, Lucy? There was more than a belt. It was more than a
41:56belt. It
41:57was common back then. It was more than a belt, Susan. Oh, oh, boo hoo. A lot of kids get
42:02hit with a belt.
42:03So a lot of kids get picked up and choked by the throat until they pass out and have to
42:07stutter for six
42:08If I remember right, you were screaming like a freight train. The whole world against poor,
42:12poor Lucy. What about the women you called bimbos? They left alive. Some did. Oh, some did. You know
42:18that for a fact. Some didn't. We never carried bags of lies to the well. No, we did not. Not
42:23one. Nope.
42:25You'll never admit it anyway. You've had two and a half fucking years to look. I haven't been up in
42:31the
42:31hills for two and a half years. I came up here to get the bodies. Go back to Florida and
42:36leave the rest of us
42:37alone. I'm going to prove that dad killed our mom and killed Charlotte and killed Anna Tordoff. You're
42:43a liar. I don't give a fuck what you think I am, Susan. You're a liar. How many lies have
42:48you told?
42:49Why don't you stop covering for dad and fucking tell the truth for once in your life? Somebody better
42:55get in McQueen's because I'm not ready to deck her. I said before I decked her, I would walk away
42:59and
42:59leave. I'm leaving. No, I want you to talk to the girls. Nick, let's go. I'm going to leave and
43:07you're
43:07going to talk to Dawn, Marie and Charlotte. You come over here and talk to them. Dawn,
43:11Marie and Charlotte. Okay. No, there's nothing to talk about. I'm not going to criticize my father.
43:14If you guys want to talk to me, you guys do outside of us having an audience, okay? Is that
43:19what this
43:20is all about? No. To put on a show for you guys? No. We came up here to spread some
43:23of mom's ashes
43:24and green holler because she loved this place. Yes, I know she did. That's why we came up here.
43:28This could have been confronted outside the cameras. You keep Lucy away. It's been a long time.
43:34It's been a long time. 40 years. Yeah. Yeah. We haven't seen each other since the funeral.
43:40I really don't understand why all this happened. This was supposedly the big dig of the century for
43:46Lucy. No bodies are found. I think that basically clears my father. That has nothing to do though with
43:53our mom and your mom. Yeah. All I remember is my door was shut, but she went stomping past my
44:00door. I could
44:01hear her footsteps stomping. I saw no gun. I did hear Charlotte say those words. All I heard was,
44:10fuck you. I'm going to kill myself the way your wife did. And she took off out the door.
44:15My dad was home all that night. The next morning, she goes, girls, wake up. Charlotte's dead.
44:21She did not kill herself. That's what you say. That's not what I say.
44:26Susan, I did see good in your dad and I seen bad. Don't you look at me because you know
44:32damn well
44:33what I'm talking about. And you know what? I know damn well about your mom too. Spill my dad's
44:37secrets and I spill some of your mother's too. I lived with her too. I know your dad had a
44:42good
44:42side and I know your dad had a bad side. And so did your mother. Yes, exactly. We all do.
44:46You guys are missing the point. You guys are trying to get me to criticize my father.
44:50Susan, do you remember when he beat her so bad he put her in the hospital and almost killed her?
44:54Susan, if you guys are going to say that my dad killed Charlotte, we're done.
44:58But I never said that, now did I? No, we never said that.
45:00You're the one that goes on the defense. You're the one that keeps doing that.
45:03We're just asking questions. We're trying to remember things.
45:06What do you expect out of me? You're not going to get anything out of me.
45:10This whole story was about 50 to 100 people buried in wells. That's what it's about. It's not about,
45:15it's not entirely about my mom and your mom. You want to talk about our mothers? We do it privately.
45:21Ollie came up to clear my father's name. That's it. Goodbye. Bye.
45:28Well, she doesn't want to talk on camera because she knows that something will get said that
45:33will make her look bad. Yeah.
45:37I couldn't stay there any longer. I've been right the entire time.
45:44I could tell Lucy was upset that nothing was found. What we witnessed living with him. I'm sorry.
45:51Yeah. We've seen him in action. We've seen you kids get beat. And I mean,
45:55he didn't just beat you with the belt. No. It was not just like a couple slaps with that belt.
46:00He'd beat
46:01you till sometimes they were bleeding. He'd have you on the floor kicking and punching. And then pick you up
46:07and
46:07throw you across the floor. Grab your hair and slam your head against everything he could find.
46:12That's why we came forward, Lucy. Truly.
46:24When we were first approached about doing this documentary,
46:31we were hesitant, very hesitant, because we didn't want to revisit all the pain and the anguish and the
46:39sorrow of what we lived through. The reason we felt like we needed to come forward was to help Lucy,
46:48to show people that she's probably right. Even if Susan won't admit that my dad killed people and put
46:59them in the well, she does know that he killed our mom, he killed our stepmom, and he probably killed
47:07Anna.
47:08You're certain that Susan... Oh, God, yes. She's doing what Dad trained us to do.
47:17Why do you guys keep believing a pathological liar?
47:22Her story is all about revenge for abuse. Oh, you better believe he beat the shit out of us.
47:30But no, that's not why we made Newsweek. We made it over 50 to 70 people, not over my mother
47:36and my stepmother.
47:44I think I believe that Lucy has seen something. I think that there are probably human remains
47:54out here on this farm. But it's not an easy task to try to find them. Memory is ephemeral. So
48:04something
48:04happened. She saw something. And right now, I don't know what that is.
48:12Maybes are littered everywhere in the story, right? Anything could have happened, or nothing happened.
48:24There are a lot more things on Lucy's side than there are against Lucy right now.
48:31There are a lot of people who have come forward. They're not lying. I'm not lying.
48:38I think Susan probably doesn't admit it happened because psychologically, I don't think she probably
48:46can. If my father had done that, I would do everything in the world not to remember.
48:56Is there anything that opens your mind to the possibility that your father was a big killer?
49:06Everybody's capable of killing. But you can't prove my father killed anybody.
49:17Your sister says that everything you say is a lie. Is there anything you've ever said to us
49:25that isn't true? Not about my dad.
49:31What about when he said the first person you saw your father kill was in Bartlett, Iowa, when you were
49:39four years old?
49:43In Bartlett, Iowa, four years old. Kill.
49:52It's tough dealing with this family because I keep going back to this is
49:57the first place. If any of it's true. And I'm there's morsels of it that would have to be true.
50:05It's scary.
50:09There's always two sides to a story. Somewhere in the middle is the truth.
50:15Will you ever know 100% what happened?
50:22Don't you think if there was 50 to 70 hookers, we would have reported it?
50:35My dad was innocent.
50:39What was he innocent of?
50:43Murdering dozens of women.
50:53If there was a body up there, where would it be?
51:08In a well.
51:13It'd be in a well.
51:25In the pines, in the pines, where the sun never shines, shivered where the cold winds blowed.
51:39In the pines, in the pines, in the cold lonesome pines,
51:46shivered where the cold winds blowed.
51:53In the cold lonesome pines, shivered where the cold winds blowed.
51:54Little girl, little girl, where'd you stay last night?
52:00Not even your mother knows.
52:07I stayed in the pines where the sun never shines, shivered where the cold winds blowed.
52:16I stayed in the pines where the cold winds blowed.
52:21I stayed in the pines where the cold winds blowed.
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