- 2 days ago
In an exclusive interview, Hamas Political Bureau member Dr Basem Naim sits down with Nailah Huda to discuss the group’s position on US-led peace negotiations as the Iran war reshapes regional dynamics. He shares Hamas’ outlook on the proposed peace plan, the question of disarmament, and what a future political administration in Gaza could look like.
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00:07This is Awani Global with me, Nala Huda.
00:09Six months into the ceasefire, almost 800 Palestinians in Gaza have been killed
00:14and at least 2,000 injured as of 20 April.
00:18And since 7 Oktober 2023, the cumulative death toll has reached over 72,000.
00:24The United Nations warned that human development across Gaza has been set back
00:28a staggering 77 years.
00:31And with the world focused on the US and Israel's war on Iran,
00:34there's increasing uncertainty about what happens next for Gaza,
00:38especially at a critical stage of President Trump's 20-point peace plan.
00:42And joining me to talk about where Hamas stands on the peace plan
00:46and what their vision for the future of Gaza might look like,
00:49Dr. Basim Naim, Senior Official and Political Bureau Member of Hamas.
00:53Thank you so much, Dr. Basim, for joining us today.
00:55I want to start with the 20-point peace plan that's been led by President Trump.
01:01Of course, that's what all the world's attention is pointed towards right now.
01:06Where does Hamas currently stand on the peace negotiations that's been led by the US?
01:11Thank you very much.
01:12When we have received the 20-point plan of President Trump in October last year,
01:19we have seen that this is a good chance to stop or to make an end of the genocide in
01:25Gaza.
01:25And therefore, we have welcomed the plan in general.
01:29And we have said we can go for the immediate practical steps.
01:33And this is exactly what we have signed in Sharm el-Sheikh in October last year.
01:38And based on this, we have agreed upon the ceasefire deal.
01:43And this is now more than 194 days.
01:48Based on this, in the last few weeks, the mediators and the Americans and some other countries
01:57started to talk about going to the second phase.
02:00Our position was clear.
02:02We are still committed to the negotiations.
02:04We are welcoming, discussing and negotiating the rest of the points in the plan.
02:11But our big question was, what about the first phase?
02:16We were committed totally to the first phase.
02:19We have fulfilled all our obligations.
02:22But on the other hand, the Israelis have violated the deal 13 times per day.
02:29As you have mentioned, since signing the deal, around 800 killed and more than 2,000 wounded.
02:37No food is allowed to enter Gaza.
02:39No infrastructure is repaired.
02:41No heavy machinery, lacking of medicine, service, and so on.
02:47Therefore, our big question was, okay, we are ready to go forward to discuss all other points,
02:53including technocratic government, ISF, and so on.
02:59But we want to see that the first phase is implemented.
03:03Second, when it comes to the second phase, the second phase is about 12, 13 points.
03:10This includes technocratic government, this includes ISF, the International Stability Force,
03:18a political vision, a political horizon, because at the end, this is not a secure arrangement or humanitarian issue.
03:24This is a political conflict for people who are under occupation and looking for their freedom and dignity and their
03:31stillhood.
03:32And therefore, now we are in this station, waiting from the mediators and from the representative of the Board of
03:41Peace
03:42to bring us an answer, a clear answer about the first phase and about the vision of the second phase
03:48in all topics
03:49and not selectively tackling specific points.
03:54Up to this point, have there been any direct talks or negotiations between Hamas and the U.S.?
03:59And if so, has there been any progress?
04:00Most of the negotiations are done indirectly between Hamas and the Americans and the Israelis through the mediators.
04:12But in some occasions, there were direct negotiations with the Americans or with the representative of the Board of Peace,
04:24Mr. Miladinov.
04:27With the Israelis, we have never direct negotiations.
04:31Right. And of course, when we're talking about the 20-point peace ban, particularly the second phase,
04:36as you mentioned in your talk earlier today as well, there's a lot of attention focused on the point of
04:41disarmament, disarming Hamas.
04:43And in an interview in October as well as today, you stated that Hamas will not disarm until you feel
04:49you are in a position
04:50where you do not need to be armed. Does that still stand today?
04:55Yes, because the armed resistance is not a goal in itself.
05:02It is a tool to achieve our political goals, a statehood, right of return, freedom and dignity.
05:10We have, as you know, and the audience also know, in 1993, we have signed the so-called Oslo Agreement,
05:18waiting that these peaceful negotiations will lead at the end to have a state.
05:23But unfortunately, after 33 years, more of the Palestinian land is confiscated,
05:30more of Palestinians are dismissed out of Palestine, more Palestinians killed and so on.
05:36Therefore, again, we believe that it is the right of people under occupation to resist by all means,
05:42including armed resistance, unless, one, there is another serious option to achieve these goals,
05:49or we have achieved our goals, if we have said it, if we have our state,
05:54we are ready to hand over these weapons to the state, and our fighters can be part of the National
06:01Guard.
06:03Otherwise, based on our experience with the Israelis, and maybe also other experience in different areas,
06:09we have seen the Americans and the Israelis have pressured the Palestinians and obliged them
06:18to give up their weapons in 1982 in Beirut, and they have pushed them from Beirut to Tunis.
06:26While they are still in ships near the coast of Beirut, the Israelis with the Christian militias
06:33entered Sabra and Shatila refugee camp and slaughtered more than 3,000 innocent Palestinians.
06:42The same thing we have seen it in Srebrenica in Bosnia.
06:47They have asked the Muslims to give up their weapons,
06:50and under the umbrella and the supervision of the UN forces,
06:55thousands of Muslims in Srebrenica were killed and thousands of women were raped.
07:00Therefore, we are not ready to repeat the same story.
07:03Earlier in your session, in your talk, you emphasized about the voice of the Palestinian people,
07:09particularly in the second phase of the plan,
07:11and you talk about this future governance framework.
07:15What would that look like, a political administration in Gaza and for Palestinian people?
07:20When we have received the 20 points plan of President Trump,
07:25we have said when it comes to the prisoner issue and exchange,
07:29we are ready to go for this immediately.
07:32When it comes to giving up the government, we are also ready to do it.
07:37But when it comes to all the bigger issues, the statehood, the independence,
07:45the future of the Palestinian state, how does it look like, and so on,
07:49this has to be answered by all Palestinians.
07:52Therefore, we believe all Palestinians have to sit around the table to discuss internally
08:00what is exactly we need, how can we approach this, and how can we achieve it.
08:06From our side in Hamas, we are calling all Palestinian factions,
08:10including the PLO leadership in Ramallah,
08:13to come to roundtable discussion to discuss all these points,
08:17and then with one voice, one delegation, discussing with the Americans, with the Israelis,
08:23all the other issues.
08:25When it comes to Hamas, we are believing in a civil state, in democratic election,
08:31and we leave our people on the ground to vote for those who they believe that they can serve them,
08:40and we are ready to participate, to facilitate, and to accept any results
08:45if this is free and transparent elections.
08:50We're talking about elections this weekend.
08:52Palestinians in Deir al-Balah will vote this weekend in municipal elections.
08:56Do you see this as a litmus test, as a barometer of Hamas and its popularity?
09:04No, we cannot say this because, as you know, today half of the Palestinian territories
09:10in the Gaza Strip are under the Israeli control,
09:13and a lot of people are displaced from their areas.
09:18You will be the people of Rafah in Khan Yunus, the people of Deir al-Balah in other areas.
09:23Therefore, you cannot talk about a normal situation so that we can take it as a reflection.
09:29Second, we are not participating officially in this election
09:35because anyone who can make an election campaign on behalf of Hamas,
09:43he will be killed on the same day.
09:46Therefore, no one is nominating himself on behalf of Hamas or talking on behalf of Hamas.
09:53Lastly, you cannot simply take the municipality election in one city
10:04as an indicator of the whole situation in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
10:10But we consider it important when it comes to the legality or legitimacy
10:18of the political system in Gaza.
10:22And at the time, the Israelis are trying to impose their political vision and system
10:31to have any connection to our original Palestinian political structure,
10:38even through a municipality election.
10:40This is very important.
10:42The connection, because this election in Deir al-Balah
10:45will be run at the same time with municipality election in the West Bank.
10:49And this connection between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank is also very important politically.
10:55This is, I think, here is the importance.
11:00And when we're talking about either the future of Gaza or we're talking about the peace plan,
11:07talking about the future of Palestinian people, what do you think is missing,
11:11whether in media or among what's been discussed in negotiations by government officials?
11:17What do you think, if there is, is missing or being given less attention to, particularly in perhaps international media?
11:23You mean about the Palestinian people?
11:25Is there anything that you think is missing that should be given more attention?
11:29Look, unfortunately, most of the mainstream media, especially when it comes to the West, America and Europe,
11:38they are adopting the Israeli, the Zainist narrative, and they are talking about all issues within this narrative.
11:48Even, for example, we have the GHF Corporation.
11:54This is a company who was distributing food in Gaza.
11:57While they were distributing food, they have killed thousands of Palestinians,
12:01or even those very simple, ordinary people who came to get some food.
12:07When you go to the mainstream media, either they are not talking about it at all,
12:12or they are portraying the Palestinians as if they are attacking the company,
12:21or they are shooting each other.
12:24Thanks, maybe, social media, especially in the West,
12:27that they were able to carry the responsibility of conveying the narrative or the message of the Palestinian people,
12:38the ordinary people, to the ordinary people in the West.
12:42But when it comes to what topics, I think all topics are needed to be tackled.
12:49Today you are talking about the dire, catastrophic situation,
12:53the humanitarian situation in Gaza Strip.
12:57You are talking about the lack of security.
12:59These militias formed, built, armed, trained by the Israelis,
13:07are attacking their own people on a daily basis on behalf of the Israelis.
13:12You are talking about,
13:13Rafah is closed.
13:1520,000 wounded people are in need for treatment abroad.
13:20Many families are divided.
13:23I, myself, my family,
13:26I am now more than three years outside the country.
13:30My wife, my children are still there,
13:32but they cannot come and I cannot go.
13:34Thousands of families are divided.
13:37Thousands of students have lost their study places at the universities.
13:45Thousands have lost their jobs in Gulf states.
13:48When it comes to health sector,
13:52when it comes to education,
13:55Gaza Strip,
13:56around 65 to 70% of Gazans are below 18.
14:01Most of them are children.
14:02Now for the third year,
14:05there are no schools, no universities.
14:08What does it mean for the future of this generation?
14:11Therefore, I think the political rights,
14:13the right to get clean water,
14:16the right to get a freedom of movement,
14:19I think all of these issues and other issues
14:22have to be tackled and talked about.
14:41I mean, this dire humanitarian situation that you're describing,
14:45this is still ongoing and perhaps becoming even worse
14:48after the ceasefire.
14:50If we're looking at an analysis that's published by Oxfam,
14:53they found that six months in,
14:55after the ceasefire,
14:57the peace plan is, quote,
14:58regrettably failing
15:00as Palestinians continue to suffer extreme deprivation,
15:03hunger and death.
15:04Are you still optimistic
15:06about the implementation of the peace plan
15:08and what makes this ceasefire,
15:11this plan perhaps different
15:13from all the other ceasefires
15:14that we know have been attempted in the past?
15:17Look, first of all,
15:19to be honest,
15:20we cannot talk about a peace plan.
15:24This is a very broad plan
15:29with very broad terminology,
15:31but there is no peace plan.
15:34And second,
15:36peace can be achieved here
15:40by solving the roots of this conflict,
15:44which is the state terrorism of Israel,
15:46which means giving the Palestinians
15:49the right of a statehood
15:50and their dignity and the right of return.
15:53But it is not only about food and water,
15:58which is an obligation, a right.
16:02But this is not the root of the cause.
16:04The root of the cause is the occupation.
16:06Therefore, without solving this,
16:08we cannot talk about peace.
16:10And on the contrary,
16:12it is a matter of time
16:14to see the next round of violation
16:16or of escalation or of war
16:18as long as the people
16:19will continue to be oppressed.
16:24therefore, as long as the Americans blindly support the Israelis,
16:29and at least when it comes to the deal we have signed,
16:34if they are not ready to pressure the Israelis
16:38and to oblige them to respect their signature,
16:42we cannot talk about peace or even ceasefire.
16:45As you have mentioned
16:47and as I have mentioned,
16:49since the ceasefire agreement,
16:50more than 750 Palestinians
16:52or around 800 killed
16:54and 200, 2,000 wounded,
16:56how can we talk about ceasefire?
16:59Far away from peace.
17:01I mean, as you see,
17:01on one hand it's cease
17:02and on the other it's fire.
17:04Yes, this is exactly what I have said.
17:06One party is seizing
17:08and the other party is firing.
17:10Describe what life is like
17:12on a daily basis for Palestinians now.
17:15What is the current sentiment among the public?
17:17And I think it's also interesting
17:18in the session you were talking about
17:20how access or supply of daily basic needs
17:25are being blocked.
17:26And when Hamas is seen as negotiating the peace plan,
17:31the so-called peace plan, as you say,
17:32with the U.S. and Israel,
17:34they are now seen,
17:35or Hamas is now seen as blocking
17:37those necessities to the public.
17:40Has that changed the sentiment?
17:42First of all, when it comes to Hamas,
17:45we have all the time offered
17:48or given the offer
17:50that we are ready to give up the government
17:53and please the technocratic body or committee
17:58which was formed five months ago,
18:00why they are still in Cairo?
18:02Why not to move into Gaza?
18:05Why not to allow them to go to Gaza
18:06and to take over?
18:07And we have all the preparations
18:09to facilitate their job,
18:11to support them,
18:12and to give up the government.
18:14But again,
18:15Israel, the Zionist regime,
18:17is intentionally blocking this step
18:20to keep talking and saying
18:23Hamas is still there,
18:24the police of Hamas,
18:26the health sector of Hamas,
18:28the educational ministry of Hamas.
18:30Okay, why not to come in?
18:32Second, when it comes to the daily life,
18:37I think it is,
18:40they are intentionally making
18:44and planning and making it unlivable.
18:48I am contacting my wife,
18:52my children,
18:52my sisters,
18:54brothers,
18:55and asking them about daily life.
18:59Every day,
19:00they are in need,
19:01for example,
19:02for two, three hours
19:04to get some water for one day.
19:08Every day they are facing,
19:10for example,
19:10they have the attempt
19:11to get some online education
19:16for the children.
19:17Okay, one day,
19:19no electricity.
19:20The other day,
19:21no internet.
19:22The third day,
19:24there are no mobiles
19:28to the children.
19:30Every day they are fighting
19:32and struggling
19:33to have any kind of education.
19:37If you have any health issues,
19:42most of the health sector is destroyed.
19:44Most of the medicine
19:46is not available.
19:47I have a relative,
19:48a young lady,
19:5020 years old.
19:51She is diagnosed
19:55to have a blood cancer,
19:57leukemia.
19:59She is in urgent need
20:01for chemotherapy,
20:02but it is not available in Gaza,
20:04and she cannot leave.
20:05And she is the,
20:06she is the only daughter
20:09of the family,
20:11and they are watching her dying,
20:15because, again,
20:16medicine is not available,
20:17and she cannot go out.
20:19This is,
20:20I have in the session
20:23mentioned a very simple issue
20:25that because of garbage,
20:28because of collecting,
20:30collection of all these dirty things
20:33in the middle of the city,
20:35because people cannot,
20:37you know,
20:39transport it to
20:41abroad areas,
20:43you have a huge number
20:45of rats,
20:47so huge,
20:48that they are exposing
20:51children for a lot
20:52of communicable diseases.
20:56Again,
20:57it is,
20:57it is so dire,
20:58it is so
20:59catastrophic,
21:02that I am sure
21:04the Israelis
21:04are planning
21:05to keep
21:07Rafah closing.
21:08The situation
21:08is very catastrophic.
21:09At the time,
21:11Rafah is open,
21:12without any
21:15living conditions,
21:16they might leave.
21:18We, of course,
21:19cannot ignore
21:20the fact that
21:21the US and Israel
21:22have also launched
21:23a war on Iran.
21:24Do you think
21:25that this has shifted
21:26away some of the
21:26attention from
21:28the humanitarian
21:29crisis in Gaza,
21:30and what do you think
21:31would happen
21:32if the war on Iran
21:33were to go on
21:34much longer?
21:35I think it has shifted
21:36a lot
21:38the attention
21:39of the world
21:40from Gaza,
21:41and on the contrary,
21:43the Israelis
21:43have used this time
21:44while the people
21:45are concentrating
21:46on the war
21:48against Iran,
21:49the closure
21:50of the state
21:50of Hormuz,
21:52to continue
21:53implementing
21:54their plan
21:55by killing people,
21:56by pushing
21:58more and more
21:58soldiers
21:59into Gaza Strip,
22:01by closing
22:01Al-Aqsa Mosque,
22:03by issuing
22:04the death penalty,
22:06the annexation
22:08of more land.
22:09They are using
22:11in the best way
22:12of their plans.
22:15I mean,
22:15as you said,
22:16this is not
22:17a surprise,
22:17especially to
22:18the Malaysian
22:18audience.
22:19We've known
22:20the long history
22:21of the sort
22:22of violence
22:22that the Israeli
22:23regime has
22:24inflicted upon
22:25others,
22:25but I think
22:26for the
22:27international
22:27community,
22:28particularly in
22:29Western
22:30mainstream
22:30societies,
22:31we're seeing
22:32international
22:33solidarity
22:33continuing to
22:34grow,
22:35particularly now
22:35seeing what
22:37Israel and the
22:37US have launched
22:39on Iran as well.
22:40what do you
22:41think contributed
22:42to this shift
22:43in support
22:44among Western
22:45communities in
22:47mainstream Western
22:48spaces?
22:50Again, I think
22:51thanks to social
22:52media,
22:53they were able
22:54to penetrate
22:56this closure
22:58of mainstream
23:00media so that
23:01we can reach
23:03the ordinary
23:04people,
23:06especially in the
23:06West.
23:07it was for us
23:09very costly
23:10and expensive
23:11because we
23:12have,
23:13they have killed
23:14hundreds of
23:14journalists,
23:16even activists
23:16who convey
23:18this message.
23:19I think this
23:20has played a
23:21very important
23:21role in changing
23:23the mind of
23:24people.
23:25Second,
23:26I think the
23:28people have
23:28discovered how
23:30much their
23:31own governments
23:33are, how can
23:35we say it,
23:36in conspiracy,
23:38in supporting
23:41the genocide,
23:42the killing of
23:43people.
23:43Despite of all
23:44what happened,
23:45it is clear that
23:46they have killed
23:4774,000 people
23:49and wounded
23:51150,000 or
23:5280,000 and so
23:53on.
23:53Despite of this,
23:55they are still
23:57have their own
23:58contracts to
23:59supply Israel with
24:00weapons, to
24:02supply Israel with
24:03money, to use
24:05veto three, four
24:06times in the
24:07Security Council
24:08to block any
24:10resolutions against
24:12Israel.
24:13Yesterday, there was
24:14a discussion in the
24:15EU Parliament about
24:17cutting the ties or
24:19the contracts with
24:21Israel, and it was
24:23blocked by some
24:24countries who are
24:25still supporting
24:27Israel.
24:28I think this was very
24:30important to make
24:31this shift, that it
24:32is not only about
24:32Palestinians, that we
24:34with our money, I
24:36mean the taxpayer in
24:37America and
24:38Europe, we are
24:39funding the
24:40genocide.
24:41Instead of paying
24:43this money to
24:44improve the health
24:45sector in America,
24:46we are paying the
24:48money to supply
24:50Israel with more
24:51weapons to kill
24:52more people.
24:53I think this has
24:55made a clear
24:56shift, especially
24:57in America, we
24:58know that today we
25:00have a big
25:00movement, the
25:01so-called MAGA
25:02movement, which
25:02is concentrating on
25:04make America great
25:05again.
25:06Why to lead wars
25:08on behalf of
25:09Israel against
25:10Iran, against
25:11Lebanon, against
25:11Palestinians?
25:12Why not to
25:13concentrate on our
25:15internal issues?
25:16I think most
25:19importantly, a lot
25:21of people today can
25:22see the real face
25:24of the Zionist
25:26regime when you
25:27hear someone like
25:29Mingyfir and
25:30Smutrich and
25:31others, officials
25:33and parliamentarians
25:34who are talking
25:36broadly how they
25:38have killed
25:38children, how they
25:40destroyed houses,
25:41how they have
25:42raped prisoners,
25:45men and women,
25:46how they are
25:47cutting water.
25:48They are very
25:50proud to cut
25:51water.
25:52How they are
25:52considering all
25:53Palestinians in the
25:55Gaza Strip, two
25:56million are terrorists
25:57and no one is
25:58innocent, including
26:00children.
26:00I think all these
26:02together have
26:03played a good,
26:05strong role in
26:07changing the mind
26:08of the people.
26:08Thank you so much,
26:09Dr. Basim, for your
26:10time.
26:11And thank you as
26:12well to the
26:13International Institute
26:13of Advanced Islamic
26:14Studies for organizing
26:15this.
26:16That is all on Awani
26:17Global this week with
26:18me and I will
26:18catch you next time.
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