00:00We know that President Zelensky was there. We know that the president of Syria made an appearance as well.
00:04Who is absent? What does that say about Europe's focus at this point in time?
00:08Yeah, well, one of the sort of notable absences was Viktor Orban, right?
00:12He has been voted out as prime minister of Hungary. That was a couple of weeks ago.
00:15And of course, that has really sort of shaped very fundamentally the power dynamic at the table of the European
00:20Council,
00:21where all the leaders were assembled to discuss the various different issues that are facing Europe right now.
00:26And once again, the tone and the sort of conversation being said by Donald Trump and the activity in Iran,
00:31obviously the energy crisis.
00:32But again, the absence of Viktor Orban, and we had a sort of nod to this from the Polish prime
00:36minister, Donald Tusk,
00:37who said for the very first time in a very long time at the European Council table, Russia was not
00:42present,
00:42which was a sort of dig at Viktor Orban and his close ties to Vladimir Putin.
00:46But when you think about Zelensky, who was there on Thursday night meeting with leaders,
00:50he has had a really spectacular reversal of fate over the last couple of weeks.
00:54You know, a couple of weeks ago, it was unclear whether or not the Europeans were going to be able
00:57to get him that 90 billion euro loan.
00:59That is absolutely fundamental. That's really a survival lifeline for the Ukrainians to fund the war effort for the next
01:04two years.
01:05That has shifted. They also got through the 20th sanction package.
01:08They're now working on the 21st sanction package. These are European sanctions over on the Russians.
01:13And now there's a very active conversation at the European level.
01:16Now that Viktor Orban is out about the process of bringing the Ukraine into the European Union, the accession talks,
01:22that is something that the Ukrainians would like to see happen as soon as next year.
01:27That is intensely optimistic in terms of a timeline.
01:29But there were real conversations and real concerns about this being a real conversation.
01:33There's sort of any being able to make any progress while Viktor Orban was there.
01:36And this is something that is now being discussed at this highest level for the Europeans.
01:40We should say it's still a pretty long path for the Ukrainians to join, but it's absolutely symbolically and, of
01:45course, economically vital for them and their future.
01:48That's a pretty direct diplomatic shade, Russia not present.
01:53That's kind of as shady as you get in those circles.
01:55The other thing I've been hearing a lot of sound on, and I know you flagged some sound from the
02:01Romanian president about,
02:02is there was this Reuters report about an internal Pentagon memo talking about how the president might be looking into
02:09trying to suspend Spain and other members who aren't helping with Iran,
02:14even going so far as to talking about the Falkland Islands, possibly seeing if they could change sides and, you
02:20know, say that the British don't get the Falkland Islands anymore.
02:23We do want to play you flagged the sound from the Romanian president, and then I'll come back to you.
02:27Inside the European Union, we are one of the biggest supporters of the transatlantic relation,
02:36because we understand that our security, the Europe's security, depends a lot on NATO and directly on the United States.
02:49Of course, so, you know, all the context, there was, for years, there was a disbalance between the expenses for
03:00the security between the United States and Europe.
03:05So, Oliver, that's from your interview.
03:07Why did you want to talk to him, and why does Romania stand out as we talk about how Europe
03:11is responding to the conflicts in the East right now?
03:15Yeah, so, I mean, Romania is one of the only EU nations that actually allowed the United States to use
03:20their bases for refueling and other sort of operational tasks in their bombing campaign,
03:25in their war in Iran, which was something that really sort of is an outlier within Europe.
03:28You know, again, the Europeans keep being put in these sort of impossible positions by the president of the United
03:33States,
03:33where on the one hand, basically their survival from a security standpoint, Article 5 of NATO,
03:38is so dependent on having the United States remaining bought in on NATO, while at the same time really not
03:43wanting to become a party to the war in Iran.
03:46So, Romania really sort of stuck as a sort of very interesting sort of example there.
03:50And I asked him, you know, we're talking now about Trump possibly reprisals on NATO.
03:54Are you thinking that maybe you can get some rewards now from the Trump administration for having helped them?
03:59And he said that, listen, that they've been building their economic relationship for a very long time.
04:04He did say that American companies in the conversations they've had recently will be now more involved in Romania and
04:09sort of extracting oil and gas.
04:11But going back to this idea of the reprisals for these NATO nations in European countries that did not help
04:16the United States.
04:17I mean, Donald Trump has really sort of oscillated quite wildly on the one hand saying that NATO should be
04:21involved on the strikes or in some way in the military operation.
04:24And on the other saying that they don't need the help. But this email that is apparently circulating reported by
04:28Reuters that the United States is thinking about finding ways to suspend or kick Spain out of NATO ostensibly because,
04:34of course, Spain did not allow the base use.
04:36But also because they're the only nation within NATO who is not committed to paying that 5 percent of GDP
04:40to defense.
04:42Ali, last question is just about the vibes of this conference.
04:46And I'm curious how much unanimity there is. You mentioned Viktor Orban not there. I don't think that his successor
04:49was there either.
04:50But how much does that kind of change the tenor of an event like this one as Europe talks about
04:55doing more to defend itself perhaps without the U.S.'s aid in the way that it has in the past?
05:00What was the feel at this conference?
05:02Yeah, I think it changes the tenor pretty dramatically, David.
05:05I mean, we think about Viktor Orban has really been the thorn in the side.
05:08And a lot of people in other nations have hidden behind Viktor Orban because he was brash enough and bold
05:13enough to basically say no to stuff.
05:14But there's another point that's also made. It was made by the Belgian prime minister that basically the euphoria over
05:20Peter Magyar and the sort of new regime within Hungary may be a little bit overblown,
05:24that things may not be just sort of full unanimity going forward, that actually some of the opinions that Viktor
05:30Orban held were shared in some ways by some of the other European member states.
05:34And we should say that there was also an election in Bulgaria last week.
05:38You had a sort of more pro-Kremlin figure that was sort of elected there.
05:41And so you have these vacillations, particularly in Eastern Europe, between these sort of very pro-EU governments and these
05:47sort of less pro-EU governments.
05:48So I don't think that it's sort of a closed question in dealing with some of these questions.
05:52But I do think that Viktor Orban symbolically, after 16 years being out, really makes a big difference in terms
05:57of getting some of these initiatives over the line,
05:58particularly when it comes to Ukraine.
06:00And you can feel it really from Zelensky while he was there for the last 24 hours.
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