- 4 months ago
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Hey, Josh, for those not familiar, who is Republican Representative Thomas Massey?
00:04Why does he have a cult following?
00:08Really, he's long been one of the most interesting characters in Washington for all the reasons you enumerated in the
00:14intro there.
00:15But the reason he's so interesting now today is that he's one of very few elected Republicans, Republican congressmen,
00:21willing to kind of openly criticize Donald Trump over things like federal spending, the war in Iraq, trying to hide
00:29the Epstein files.
00:30He considers himself kind of true MAGA, where, you know, he would argue that Trump isn't.
00:38And as we all know, Trump doesn't like to be criticized.
00:40And Trump has decided to go after him and basically try and push Massey out of a job.
00:46His primary is coming up in about three weeks, three, four weeks, May 19th in Kentucky.
00:51There's a Navy SEAL running against him in the Republican primary.
00:55Trump has come out, endorsed the Navy SEAL, Ed Gawreen, spent all his time attacking Massey.
01:00But unlike most Republican elected officials who come under fire from Donald Trump, Massey isn't quieting down.
01:08And so I went out to Kentucky, spent some time with him, spent some time with him in Washington, too,
01:13and really just kind of got a feel for who the guy is, what he's doing, and why I think
01:18this particular Republican primary is so important.
01:20So why does he stick to his gun, stick to his philosophy so much?
01:26Why is he unwilling to bend on these things like other Republicans?
01:29Yeah, he is just a true-believing libertarian, and he always has been to a degree that even kind of
01:35hardcore Washington ideologues, you know,
01:39in either party are unwilling to go to.
01:41As we said in the intro, he drives a Tesla, he lives in a solar home, you know, not because
01:48he's trying to save the Earth,
01:49but because he doesn't want a power line running into his house to give corporations and government control over him
01:54if he didn't do what they liked.
01:56You know, I love the details in the story.
01:58For a long time, married to his high school sweetheart, they both went to MIT, and they, you know, started
02:04this company together.
02:05And he wanted to get back to Kentucky, to where they grew up, to raise their kids.
02:11And it was actually this issue of wanting to build this home that got him into politics in the first
02:18place.
02:19Can you talk a little bit about that?
02:20Yeah, I mean, Massey is, you know, by all accounts, a brilliant guy who, along with his girlfriend, you know,
02:25a small-town Kentucky folks, got into MIT, thrived, you know, studied electrical engineering,
02:33started a very successful company, had a family, decided they wanted to move back to Kentucky.
02:39And basically, Massey got pissed off that the local county where he started building his house was going to get
02:47zoned
02:47and we're going to put in these new rules, started showing up at town zoning meetings,
02:52and really developed kind of a local cult following that became known as Thomas's Angry Mob.
02:59Eventually, he ran for a local office.
03:01The mob backed him.
03:02He was very popular.
03:03About 12 years ago, a congressional seat came open.
03:06Massey was one of seven or eight Republicans that ran.
03:08He won.
03:09And he's kind of been the same character he is today ever since he got to Washington.
03:13And oftentimes, that meant he was the single vote, you know, against some otherwise popular issue.
03:18And that's made him kind of intermittently very unpopular with Republicans, with Democrats.
03:23But he really is true to his ideals kind of no matter what the cost.
03:27And what's so interesting to me about him, the reason we chose now to profile him in Business Week,
03:32is that I think his race on May 19th is also going to be a measure of Trump's political strength.
03:38Ordinarily, Trump can squash any Republican he doesn't like and put them out of a job.
03:43We've seen it time and time and time and time again.
03:46But Massey is a popular guy, too, at his home district.
03:48So if he is able to hold on and prevail, despite this onslaught from Donald Trump and all of these
03:55hedge fund-backed super PACs that are coming after Massey,
03:58I think that's going to tell us a lot about Trump's weakening hold on the party.
04:01And I think it also might open up room for new voices like Massey's, who don't necessarily want to do
04:07everything Trump wants to do,
04:09or at least want to stick to the original MAGA vision and not go off crusading in Iran, you know,
04:15buying public –
04:16having the federal government buy public companies, as Trump has talked about, and that sort of thing.
04:20I'm so glad you went there, because, you know, you write in your story, ultimately, though,
04:24it's also a measure of Trump and his personal power, how Massey does.
04:28It does. If Massey loses, Josh, should we read that as a barometer that President Trump actually has still a
04:37lot of strength here
04:38when it comes to the voting public and MAGA in particular?
04:42Yeah, I think it should, certainly, or at least within the confines of the Republican primary electorate.
04:48Absolutely. I mean, Trump, you know, his poll numbers are kind of plummeting broadly.
04:53The new AP poll has been at 33%, which is the low, I think, of either one of his presidencies.
04:58There's been some erosion among Republican supporters, but, you know, people who consider themselves MAGA,
05:03people who voted for Trump in 2024 still tell pollsters that they overwhelmingly support Trump.
05:09So it's certainly possible that Massey will lose, and if he does, I think that will send a chill into
05:15other Republicans
05:17who lately have been a little more willing to stand up to the president than they have.
05:21There was a FISA vote that he lost a couple of weeks ago.
05:24We saw his U.S. District Attorney, Janine Powell, backing down today from this persecution of Fed Chairman Jerome Powell.
05:33So Republicans are starting to push back.
05:35I think if Massey loses, that might cause them to kind of tap the brakes.
05:39But on the other hand, if he wins and if he wins comfortably, I think, and Massey thinks it's going
05:43to encourage more Republicans
05:45to kind of stand out and look out for their own electoral interests rather than just kind of knee-jerk
05:50following whatever it is that Trump wakes up and decides.
05:52I do hear what you're saying, but I think someone, Josh, could push back and use Marjorie Taylor Greene, for
05:56example,
05:57as somebody who didn't succeed in pushing back.
06:00And look, she decided not to run, but she faced a lot of criticisms, and she still does for speaking
06:04out against the president.
06:06You mentioned the idea of potential other sort of mini-Thomas Masseys waiting in the wings right now.
06:11Who are some of those names?
06:13You know, some of the names, like, I would, I mean, I could point to people like Don Bacon,
06:20Republicans who are known not to be happy about Trump and who have announced their retirement,
06:24therefore have less political risk that they face in standing up to him.
06:29Another one would be like a Tom Tillis who has held up Kevin Walsh's nomination in the Senate.
06:35Anybody who doesn't have to turn around and face Republican voters again this year, next year.
06:40I mean, one of the interesting things, one of the things that I'm watching on that front are,
06:43we are right now in the middle of Republican primary season.
06:46We've got Kentucky's coming up, we've got Texas's coming up.
06:49Once you get past that Republican primary season, I think it becomes a lot easier for Republicans
06:55to say no to Donald Trump because they won't have to face Republican voters in a primary again
07:01for another two years.
07:03Right now, however, you know, folks like Massey and Marjorie Taylor Greene,
07:09very limited group that are willing to kind of step out on that ledge and do it.
07:12And as you point out, it basically cost Marjorie Taylor Greene her job.
07:16She jumped before she was pushed.
07:18Massey is a fascinating case because he's taking the other path.
07:21He's going to go ahead and run for re-election anyway and try to win.
07:25So interesting.
07:26You know, Josh, one of the things I wonder, you know, you've obviously followed
07:30elections politics for a long time.
07:31You wrote about, you know, President Trump getting to the White House in the first place,
07:35that first term go-round.
07:37When you look at this year, unusual to say the least, Venezuela, this war between the U.S.
07:45and Iran ongoing.
07:46We'll see what happens certainly this weekend or into the next week or so.
07:51But does it look like a president that is thinking about, obviously in a second term,
07:56thinking about his party and the upcoming midterms?
07:58Or is it safe to say that midterms are still far enough off that a lot can change before that?
08:05You know, I think the way Trump thinks about his party is that they are there to support him
08:11in anything he does.
08:12And just because he ran for president originally, promising that he would bring down prices,
08:17not get entangled in foreign wars, get the government out of the private sector,
08:21just because he's turned around and done the opposite on all those things,
08:24I think he expects folks to go along with him in the Republican Party.
08:27Many of them have, grudgingly.
08:29But there are folks like Massey speaking up and saying, hey, you know,
08:33I signed up for what you campaigned on, not what you're doing now.
08:37And Massey, anyway, isn't going to sit by quietly while Trump flip-flops and changes his position,
08:43even if a lot of other Republicans do.
08:45And so we'll see.
08:46Is that a viable position for an elected Republican to take in the Trump era in Washington?
08:51It hasn't been for a long time, but it might be now.
08:55We'll find out in a couple of weeks.
08:56Hey, Josh, when it comes to Massey, and it's something we talk about a lot with everything going on,
09:00you know, every week we're, you know, touching on Epstein still.
09:03How much of the pushback, and we've talked about this a lot, whether it's podcasters and so on and so
09:08forth,
09:09it's because of President Trump's reluctance for so long to release more and more of the Epstein files.
09:15How much of that plays into Massey's position?
09:18I think a lot of it plays into Massey's position.
09:20I mean, he is an interesting and kind of a weird guy, very interested in kind of conspiracy theories, that
09:27sort of thing.
09:27It kind of floods into his libertarian beliefs a little bit.
09:30But from Massey's standpoint, if you're looking at the Epstein files, here is this vast, overarching conspiracy of elites and
09:37government and business leaders.
09:39And, you know, we know there was all kinds of wrongdoing going on.
09:42And the President of the United States and his Attorney General promised to release all this stuff, and they didn't.
09:47And so I think it sort of triggers something in Massey that makes him want to kind of keep pushing
09:53on this.
09:53And, look, the fact is, Trump ran on saying he would release these files.
09:57He hasn't.
09:58He's now pushed out Pam Bondi, his first Attorney General, over her unhappiness, over his unhappiness with her performance around
10:05these issues.
10:05And it's something that really has gained a lot of steam, not only with Massey and Republicans, but, as you
10:10said, with a broader kind of manosphere podcasting universe, doesn't seem to be going away no matter what Trump does.
10:17And so that's one of, you know, I would say several political issues that are really bogging Trump down, sinking
10:23his approval ratings, and making it easier for internal critics like Massey to kind of emerge, to get their voices
10:30out, and to try and build a more powerful beachhead in the party to start steering it back in the
10:35direction that they'd like it to go.
10:37Real quickly, as we say, we're living in unusual times.
10:4025 seconds.
10:41President Trump's going to be at the White House Correspondents' Dinner.
10:44Why, and just quickly, why do you think he's going to actually show up this year?
10:47I don't know.
10:48I don't think it's going to be a love fest.
10:49It's probably going to be to harangue the press.
10:52I, myself, am not going.
10:54I get plenty of haranguing right here in my own home.
10:58For my kids and my wife.
11:00So I'm going to be watching it on TV.
11:03But, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see.
11:05I'm sure Trump's not going to be very happy.
Comments