- 13 hours ago
The United States Navy intercepted and disabled the Iranian-flagged merchant vessel M/V Touska in the North Arabian Sea after it violated a naval blockade.
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00:02Good evening, you're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savant. US President Donald Trump
00:06threatened to blow up Iran, target their bridges and their power plants if Iran does not agree
00:12to a US peace deal. In fact, USS Truance, that's a guided missile destroyer, it ordered an Iranian
00:20flagship, MV, the merchant vessel Tosca, its crew to vacate the engine room and then targeted the
00:28propulsion system, disabling the Iranian ship after warning it for six hours not to approach
00:35the port of Bandar Abbas. USS Tripoli, the Marine Expeditionary Unit commandos who are based on board
00:43this amphibious ship, they then rappled down, look at these images on your television screen,
00:49these are US Navy commandos, the Marine commandos late at night, they rappled down their choppers
00:55on the deck of the Iranian ship and took control of the vessel in the North Arabian Sea. US Central
01:02command actually released a video and issued a statement of this operation saying, and I quote,
01:08US Marines depart amphibious assault ship USS Tripoli by helicopter and transit over the Arabian
01:15Sea to board and seize MV Tosca. The Marines rappled onto the Iranian flag vessel after guided missile
01:23destroyer USS Truance disabled Tosca's propulsion when the commercial ship failed to comply with
01:31repeated warnings from US forces for over six hours. Iran has called this action of the United States
01:40piracy on the high seas by the United States. In fact, Iran officially issued a statement saying
01:47they have no plans to travel to Islamabad for the second round of peace talks after US failed to build
01:54confidence and trust. And this is happening at a time when reports say USS, US Vice President J.D. Vance
02:01is likely to arrive in Islamabad in just a short while from now. Moments ago, there were reports from
02:09Tehran to indicate Iran is positively considering Islamabad proposal for resumption of dialogue. So,
02:17US Vice President J.D. Vance, he's leading the US delegation for the next round of talks. He's
02:21expected to arrive in Islamabad shortly. He'll be accompanied both by Steve Witkoff, Trump's special
02:28envoy on West Asia and Jared Kushner. Now, the Iranian side, should it finally choose to come,
02:34is expected once again to be led by Mohamed Bagheir Ghalibaf, the Speaker of the Iranian
02:40Parliament and Sayyad Abbas Arachi, Iran's Foreign Minister. Reports from Tehran have dismissed reports
02:47in a section of the US media where there were questions being raised about serious differences
02:54between the civilian leaders in Iran and members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. Some Western
03:00reports indicate the IRGC is now completely in control of decision-making in Iran.
03:04Iran, with the tacit approval of Mujtapah Khamenei, the new Ayatollah of Iran.
03:11Now, Iran says US enforcing a blockade is an act of war and doing it during the ceasefire
03:20makes matters worse. In fact, reports suggest Iran gave US President Donald Trump an off-ramp
03:25by announcing over the weekend that the Strait of Hormuz would be open. On Saturday, at least 20 ships
03:33crossed the Strait. But when Donald Trump doubled down by announcing Iran had opened the Strait but
03:39US blockade will continue till there's a final outcome, Iran felt betrayed and closed the Strait
03:46once again. The US has released a video giving details of how MV Tosca merchant vessel headed to
03:53the port of Bandarabas was asked for six hours to stop. But when it didn't, it was targeted. The US
03:58CENTCOM released a statement which says, and I quote, US forces operating in the Arabian Sea enforced the
04:05naval blockade against an Iranian flag cargo vessel attempting to sail towards the Iranian port. Guided
04:13missile destroyer USS Spruance, that's DDG-111, intercepted MV Tosca as it transited the North
04:20Arabian Sea at 17 knots en route Bandarabas, Iran. American forces issued multiple warnings and informed
04:28the Iranian flag vessel that it was in violation of a US blockade. After Tosca's crew failed to comply
04:35with repeated warnings. Over a six-hour period, Spruance directed the vessel to evacuate its engine room.
04:43Spruance disabled Tosca's propulsion by firing several rounds from the destroyer's 5-inch Mark 45 gun into
04:52Tosca's engine room. US Marines from the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit later boarded the non-compliant vessel
05:00which remains in US custody. American forces acted in a deliberate, professional and proportional
05:08manner to ensure compliance is the US statement. Since the blockade's commencement, US forces have
05:15directed 25 commercial vessels to turn around or return to an Iranian port. Listening to that
05:23conversation, the USS Spruance telling Tosca either to stop, turn around or evacuate the engine room.
05:32Listen in.
05:34Motor vessel Tosca, motor vessel Tosca, vacate your engine room, vacate your engine room. We're prepared to subject you to
05:42disabling fire.
05:55Motor vessel Tosca, motor vessel Tosca, vacate your engine room, vacate your engine room. We're prepared to subject you to
06:03disabling fire.
06:20And US President Donald Trump has hit out at his critics on this war on West Asia.
06:26US President Donald Trump took to social media platform Truth Social to say, Israel never talked me into the war
06:34with Iran.
06:35The results of October 7 added to my lifelong opinion that Iran can never have a nuclear weapon.
06:43I watch and read the fake news pundits and polls in total disbelief.
06:5090% of what they say are lies and made up stories and the polls are rigged much as the
06:572020 presidential election was rigged.
07:00Just like the results in Venezuela, which the media didn't like talking about, the results in Iran will be amazing.
07:08And if Iran's new leaders, regime change exclamation mark, are smart, Iran can have a great and prosperous future, President
07:20Donald J. Trump.
07:22I quickly want to bring in senior journalist Sandeep Unnithan joining me on this broadcast for these two major developments
07:29that are taking place.
07:30Sandeep, there is a ceasefire in place and in midst of this ceasefire, US Navy guided missile destroyer fires that
07:40Mark 45 gun into the propulsion system of an Iranian flagged ship.
07:45Would Iran see this as an escalation?
07:48Well, Gaurav, Iran has already called this a violation of the ceasefire and they've taken note of that.
07:55And they're believed to have fired at some vessels in the region. They've fired drones over there.
07:59But the Tosca is a very interesting vessel, Gaurav. It's been linked to Iran's dark fleet.
08:05It's been doing a number of very suspicious movements around Southeast Asia.
08:10It's called in at Port Klang in Malaysia. And before that, it's made numerous trips to China.
08:15Now, it's believed to, there are unconfirmed reports which suggest that it was carrying sodium perchlorate, which is the precursor
08:23chemical for solid missile boosters.
08:26That is one possibility that could have led the US to take such drastic action to shoot at that ship,
08:33to paralyze it by, you know, destroying its engine room and then taking control of that ship.
08:39We'll have to see what emerges from this, whether the US decides to make the contents, the cargo manifest of
08:44this ship public.
08:46But, you know, coming as it does so close to the talks in Islamabad, which are, we're being told it's
08:53just hours away.
08:55This is, you know, a move that, you know, could force Iran to harden its stance or take some kind
09:02of escalatory action, Gaurav.
09:04Because after this, once you fire at another country's merchant vessel and the manner in which we're trying to disable
09:10that ship, you fire at the propulsion system and then you take control of that ship and the cargo.
09:16This is, there's only two options left for Iran.
09:20Either you escalate or you give up.
09:23There can't be a middle ground on this. Can there be, Sandeep?
09:25Not at all, Gaurav. And we have to see what that Iranian escalation is going to be, because as you've
09:31pointed out, there's been a certain hardening of stance on the part of Iran.
09:35We have seen that over the last couple of days.
09:36They've opened fire on Indian flagged vessels as well.
09:40Very unprecedented, you know, given the fact that that vessel had permission to, you know, pass through that safe route
09:47that Iran had identified.
09:48So there is something that's going on in Iran that seems that everything is not as hunky-dory as we
09:55believe it is.
09:55There are talks that the hardliners have taken over, that the diplomats, the political, you know, the politicians have taken
10:02a back seat.
10:03It is now the IRGC that's, you know, firmly in control of Iran and they are leading the negotiations and
10:09they're striking a very hard bargain.
10:11If you see the language that's coming out of Iran in the last couple of days, Gaurav, everything points to
10:17a hardening of stance, you know, particularly on the nuclear issue.
10:22They are saying that there's no question of them, you know, handing over their nuclear material or even capping their
10:27nuclear uranium enrichment program.
10:30And there's no question of opening the Strait of Hormuz because as the foreign minister said a couple of days
10:36back, he said that the Strait of Hormuz was open, but it was on the conditional route that Iran had
10:42identified at the literally at the start of the conflict.
10:46So give me a moment, give me a moment because that is one aspect of it, which we will discuss
10:50in greater detail.
10:51The other aspect, look, the fallout even for the United States in this conflict, this war that's taking place between
10:59the United States, Israel on one side and Iran on the other, the impact on Gulf region, the UAE is
11:05very upset.
11:06The war impact has been felt across the Gulf region and now the debate, there's a debate in the UAE
11:12over the presence of American military bases in the Gulf region.
11:16So a very prominent commentator in the United Arab Emirates has actually argued that American military facilities are no longer
11:25a strategic asset for the UAE.
11:28The commentators are now saying the time has come to consider closing U.S. military bases.
11:34These bases are no longer strategic assets.
11:37They've become a burden.
11:38The commentators are saying that the UAE has shown it can defend itself during this recent Iranian aggression.
11:45And it does not need either the U.S. for protection the way it did once.
11:50Now, Abdullah, the commentators also stress that UAE's priority should be acquiring modern and advanced military weapons rather than hosting
11:59foreign bases in their country.
12:01This highlights a pattern that's emerged during this Iranian attack.
12:06And perhaps is that what Iran was seeking?
12:08Countries hosting U.S. military infrastructure systematically targeted during these 40 days.
12:14The U.S. maintains a very vast footprint across West Asia.
12:18It has multiple bases in the region.
12:20Bahrain, for example, is the 5th fleet headquarters.
12:23Overseas naval operations specially to guard these crucial waterways.
12:29But the Strait of Hormuz remains closed.
12:32Qatar, for example, hosts the Al-Udeid base.
12:35Al-Udeid is the region's largest U.S. base and the forward headquarters of U.S. Central Command.
12:42Kuwait serves as a very major logistics and staging hub.
12:47And Kuwait has repeatedly been targeted by Iran.
12:50UAE's Al-Dafra base supports air operations and surveillance.
12:54Iraq has bases like Ayn al-Assad and Arbal.
12:58They backed the security and coalition missions across the region.
13:02Saudi Arabia, incidentally, had to fall back on Pakistan to protect its eastern flank overlooking Iran.
13:12Because Saudi Arabia hosts troops focused on air missile defense.
13:17And, of course, Jordan has that Azraq air base which supports operations across the Levant.
13:24Now, across all these bases, these are countries that were hit.
13:28They were systematically targeted by Iran.
13:31The big question is, was U.S. unwilling or unable to protect its bases and these countries?
13:40And does it make sense for them to host U.S. bases?
13:44Now, U.S. President Donald Trump is confident there will be a deal with Iran in Pakistan.
13:50From saying, don't sign this deal, the whole country will get blown up.
13:55To saying there will be a deal.
13:57That is what he hopes.
13:58What should one make of these developments?
14:01Joining me on India first are Daniel Silverberg.
14:04Daniel Silverberg is Managing Director at Capstone.
14:07Daniel Silverberg is also a former Pentagon and Capitol Hill official.
14:11William F. Wessler is Senior Director at the Rafiq Hariri Center at Middle East Program at the Atlantic Council.
14:20Joins us on this show.
14:22Mohamed Khadibi is a political analyst and a Middle East expert.
14:25Joins us on this show.
14:27He has very extensive experience covering Iran's foreign policy.
14:30Sandeep Puneetan, Senior Journalist, stays with me on this broadcast.
14:34And give me a moment as I try.
14:39And Daniel, okay.
14:41Mohamed Khadibi, if you can hear me.
14:43Is Iran willing to join the second round of talks?
14:50Initially, some reports seem to indicate Iran does not intend to go.
14:54Now, there are some reports that seem to indicate that Iran will positively at least think about going to Pakistan
15:01for second round of talks.
15:03What is the thinking inside Iran?
15:06According to the Iran's foreign ministry, there has no plan right now.
15:11But I think that Iran has never left the negotiating table because, first of all, Iran does not seek war.
15:19And it was the United States and Israel which imposed war on Iran.
15:24Iran was on the negotiating table.
15:26And Israel and the United States blew that table off twice.
15:30So right now, Iran is considering these negotiations important and not joining it because of the placate of Strait of
15:41Hormuz for Iranian ships by the United States.
15:44And that is an important issue because Iran thinks that if Iran cannot sell its oil, no one else in
15:51the region can sell oil.
15:54So if that problem is solved, Iran will rejoin the negotiating table.
15:59Iran is always open for diplomacy.
16:01But it's the United States and its maximalist demands which prevent further negotiation and reaching a deal fair for both
16:11Iran and the United States.
16:13So I think that Iran is open and it will join the negotiations soon if the United States decides to
16:22reopen the street and end its placate.
16:26Okay.
16:27So, Mohamed Khatibi, what is the view in Iran about the Iranian flagship which was heading to that Bandar Abbas
16:35port being targeted, its propulsion system being disabled and U.S. Marines boarding it and taking control of that ship?
16:43So, this is some kind of piracy from the United States because Iran has never closed the Strait of Hormuz
16:52and it was due to the conflict imposed on Iran which resulted in closure of the Strait.
17:00And Iran allowed Chinese, Turkish and other ships to pass even though the Strait was under heavy fire by United
17:12States and Israel.
17:13I mean, the whole region was on the fire.
17:17Iran allowed ships to pass.
17:19But right now, the United States is trying to blockade Iran in some sense like Venezuela.
17:27But I think if that continues, Iran will restart the war because, as I said, if Iran is not able
17:37to sell oil, no one else can sell oil in the region.
17:41And I don't think that the United States wants that escalation because this time, this will be bigger.
17:47There is an issue right now.
17:50If that continues and a war starts again, the Strait of Bab al-Manda will be hit.
17:56Iran may consider hitting pipelines inside UAE, inside Saudi Arabia, which during the 40-day war, it didn't hit.
18:05And I think that if this blockade continues, the war will take a new form, an escalated form like never
18:14before.
18:15Iran is beginning to negotiate, but the United States should recognize Iran's rights and offer a fair deal rather than
18:25imposing dictates.
18:27Fair enough. Daniel Silverberg, the U.S., during a ceasefire, hit the propulsion system of an Iranian-flagged Iran-bound
18:34vessel.
18:35President Trump is still confident of a deal, and he says they're already offering a fair deal to Iran.
18:42What is your reading at a time when Iran says it has no trust in the United States?
18:49My reading, Gaurav, is that there is utter chaos and uncertainty both inside Tehran and, frankly, inside Washington.
18:58In Tehran, I appreciate your guest's comment that the Iranians are willing to negotiate.
19:04My concern is who exactly is going to be negotiating on the Iranian side?
19:10From all the signals I'm seeing, there is chaos inside the leadership circles at the upper echelons of Iran, who
19:16on a good day have difficulty assessing what exactly do they want to negotiate with the United States?
19:25Are they willing to give up their nuclear program?
19:28Are they willing to agree to a 15 to 25-year enrichment pause?
19:33What about the missile program?
19:34There is so much volatility inside Tehran, inside the leadership circle, that it's unclear whether they'll even get to the
19:43table.
19:44Now, on the U.S. side, I think you also have tremendous chaos right now inside the White House.
19:51In one light, you have the president, who clearly wants to present a face of deterrence with the Iranians,
20:00and simultaneously very much seems to want to pursue a negotiation here and find some sort of settlement.
20:09So, the military action we saw, I think, highlights that there is a dissonance, an uncertainty, even within this White
20:18House, on how exactly it wants to approach the negotiations.
20:21That's a very interesting question that you had for, you know, Mohammed Khatibin, I'll get him to respond to that
20:26in just a moment.
20:27But let me get in, William Veshla, into this conversation, because the world seems to be oscillating between hope and
20:33despair, sir, war and peace.
20:36Can there be middle ground when the U.S. says Iran will hand over that highly enriched uranium to it,
20:42and Iran says there is no question of handing over the 450-odd kilograms of highly enriched uranium?
20:48Is there possibility of middle ground here?
20:50Yeah.
20:52That's certainly possible.
20:53In fact, that's what President Donald Trump has been desperate to achieve for many months now.
21:00It's a deal that's been on the table before this war began.
21:03It's a deal that's on the table now.
21:06The question is whether the Iranian regime is willing to give up their aspirations for a nuclear program, and that's
21:14what it is.
21:14Of course, it's a weaponization program, which means that they would have to give up their ability to domestically enrich
21:20uranium.
21:21We don't see evidence that they have made that decision to do so, and so we are still at this
21:27impasse.
21:56Okay.
21:58That's why Iran have taken center stage, and the hardline faction is, of course, the IRGC.
22:03And the actions on the ground seem to indicate that the IRGC is dictating terms.
22:09It's striking a very hard bargain.
22:12It's saying that there's absolutely no negotiations possible on, you know, the nuclear question.
22:17There's no question of Iran rolling back its nuclear program or, indeed, even handing over the HEU that they've had
22:23over the last couple of decades.
22:25And, of course, the other aspect is the Strait of Hormuz.
22:28They are absolutely certain that they will not give up the Strait of Hormuz because they see that as leverage,
22:34you know, for the survival of the regime in Iran, Gaurav.
22:38The Strait of Hormuz is absolutely critical.
22:40They've created new channels in the Strait of Hormuz.
22:42They've issued their own charts to say that they have mined certain areas of that as no-go zones.
22:48So, let me stay for a moment just on the issue of, one, leadership, and two, HEU.
22:54Mohamed Khatibi, you want to quickly respond, is the civilian leadership in charge or is the IRGC in charge?
23:00And is there merit in reports in America that seem to indicate that there's a tussle that's going on, a
23:08tussle of who's in control of Iran?
23:12So, unlike the Western narrative, Iran has the constitution, and it is acting upon that.
23:19There is a leader elected by the Assembly of Experts, and his name is Sayyid Mujtaba Khamenei.
23:27So, he has not appeared on live TV, but he has issued several statements regarding the ongoing situation.
23:35So, there is no such a thing like IRGC control, because if it was the case, people here in Tehran,
23:46some are urging for reinitiation of war.
23:50They did not like the ceasefire, the so-called, you call them hardliners, but I call them Iranians.
23:57They didn't want the war to stop, because they think that the assassination of a late leader was a great
24:04escalation, and they wanted the war to continue,
24:08because they think that these cycles of negotiation deal, and after that, the war should stop.
24:16So, there is no hardliner leadership inside Iran, because the people you call hardliners are still wanting a war, not
24:27a negotiation.
24:28So, the political leadership in Iran has decided that there should be diplomacy.
24:34So, what kind of diplomacy?
24:36It is important, because they want a diplomacy that is fair for not just Iranians, but also for all the
24:45region, because of the actions of Israel.
24:49Iran wants a regional peace, as it pressured the United States to include Lebanon in the negotiation.
24:57Let's just take this one by one.
24:58On the leadership issue, Daniel Silverberg, is that issue addressed in your view, that Mujtapa Khamenei is the man in
25:06charge, whether he's seen or not?
25:08Iranians say he takes all the decisions everyone follows.
25:12So, even when the late leader was...
25:15Hold on, Mohamed Khatibi, hold on. Daniel Silverberg is responding.
25:19Well, I'll just tell you the perception from the U.S.
25:25Unfortunately, I think few of us have a very strong understanding of the immediate dynamics inside Iran, but I can
25:33tell you the perception is that, yes, the supreme leader is in charge, that in some ways the U.S.
25:40did the Iranians a favor by accelerating their own internal leadership transition.
25:47And perhaps to quibble with your guest in Tehran, the perception of the United States is that very much there
25:56are hardliners, and they are the ones in charge.
26:00They are the ones who are controlling the nuclear program, mining the strait, the missile program.
26:05And it's not that their power is absolute or uniform.
26:12There's tremendous volatility, it seems like, in Iran in terms of the power dynamics.
26:19But, yes, the supreme leader seems to be calling the shots for the moment.
26:23And I suspect that that creates uncertainty over whether Iran is even going to show up to the table to
26:31have negotiations.
26:33Okay, some indications from Tehran now are that Iran wants to remain engaged and therefore will show up.
26:40What will emerge from it is the big question.
26:42But, you know, the question that William Veshla also raised, Mohamed Khatibi, would you want to respond to that, please,
26:48when he says Iran will have to give up the 450-odd kilograms of highly enriched uranium?
26:56Because that is essentially meant for a weapons program.
26:59Will Iran give it up?
27:03So, Iran has been enriching uranium and insisting on enriching uranium for over 20 years.
27:10And it has not given it up after the assassination of leader, after sanctions and even a war.
27:19So, why does the United States think that Iran will give it up right now?
27:25I think that Iran wants to keep it.
27:28But there are points and there are ways to ensure the United States, once again, like what it implemented in
27:37the JCPOA,
27:38and ensure the United States does not want a nuclear weapon.
27:43Iran does not want a nuclear weapon, but actions by the United States is pushing Iranians to a corner.
27:53And there are loud voices right now inside Tehran who urge governments to build a nuclear bomb and end it
28:02once and for all.
28:04If they say that if Iran reaches a nuclear bomb, there will be no war.
28:08So, they are pushing and asking the government to cure this cancer once and for all.
28:17They think that Iran reaching a nuclear bomb is the cure for the actions of the United States.
28:24So, right now, Iran is not...
28:26Let me get William Weschler to respond to this.
28:29By all accounts, Iran is unwilling to cede ground on either the Strait of Hormuz,
28:34or letting go of that 450-odd kilograms of highly enriched uranium.
28:38Trump says Strait will be open for all and U.S. will take control of that highly enriched uranium.
28:45How do we then find that middle ground, sir, in your view?
28:50I don't think that there is a middle ground if that's the situation.
28:54I do think that the gentleman from Tehran is accurate in representing the Iranian views at this point.
29:01There are lots of ways that some of which have made to the press about where compromise can be done,
29:06about certain numbers of timeframes that would be committed.
29:12Those types of agreements are possible if the people meet in Islamabad.
29:18But it requires the regime in Tehran to make a fundamental decision that would be very different from the decisions
29:26that it's made for the last 20 years
29:28about its commitment to enrich uranium domestically.
29:33That is something that the Trump administration, and by the way, not just the Trump administration,
29:37but every administration, Democratic or Republican in Washington, has said is a red line for the United States.
29:45Now we're in the situation of war.
29:47If that's where we are, then the war will continue, unfortunately.
29:51Is that your reading too, Sandeep, that the ceasefire deadline that's supposed to end in 48 hours,
29:58the number of assets that the U.S. is building up into the region,
30:01there are those two marine expeditionary units, one already there, already in operation,
30:06the other getting there.
30:08Do you agree with Mr. Veshna that perhaps, you know, with two sides taking such strong views,
30:15the world is getting up for round two of this conflict?
30:17Quite possible, Gaurav.
30:18You know, as you mentioned, there are two ARGs there.
30:21There's two carrier strike groups.
30:22There's a third carrier strike group that could be in position in the next couple of days.
30:26That is the George W. Bush.
30:28So, you know, all of this points to options for the U.S. president to take action against Iran,
30:34to tighten the screws, to get them to the negotiating table,
30:37and, you know, to come about some agreement on the nuclear material.
30:43Because the big elephant in the room, Gaurav, the one that's not been addressed so far,
30:48it has been addressed through talks and, you know, discussions over the last couple of years.
30:52But the one thing right now in the war is the nuclear question and that how does Iran get to,
30:58you know, cap its nuclear enrichment program or to hand over the HEU,
31:04the 440 kgs that it's supposed to have, you know, processed.
31:09That is a very, very big issue.
31:11And unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a middle ground on this.
31:14And I think both sides are at maximalist positions on this.
31:17So, till the time they don't work out, you know, a middle ground,
31:20then the military option is going to become more and more attractive as the days pass.
31:25And President Trump is racing against a deadline.
31:28We've discussed that.
31:29He has elections towards the end of the year.
31:31He's got a very high-profile visit to Beijing in the 14th and 15th of May.
31:37And, of course, the 4th of July celebrations in just a few months from now.
31:42So, there are very big deadlines looming in the distance.
31:45Does that actually cripple his options or actually put more pressure on Donald Trump,
31:52Daniel Silverberg?
31:53He has to find a quick solution to this problem that has, you know,
31:59vexed the world for 47 years.
32:01The nuclear program, what happens to that 450 kgs of highly enriched uranium
32:06and the Strait of Hormuz?
32:08Are these critical issues where Iran has the advantage even of time?
32:15I don't think so, Gaurav.
32:18I actually think President Trump is immune in many ways to the time in question.
32:24I don't think he cares about the political timing at the moment.
32:30Bottom line, this is what it comes down to.
32:32President Trump took his best shot to decapitate the Iranian regime.
32:35He missed.
32:37It's clear now he did not have a backup strategy.
32:40He was not planning on being in a protracted negotiation with Iran,
32:46one that could potentially hold the entire world's energy security hostage.
32:53And so, he now needs to make the determination.
32:56And it really comes down to him alone whether he wants to engage in a serious,
33:02thoughtful, long-term negotiation.
33:04And, Gaurav, make no mistake, these issues take a long time to negotiate.
33:10You don't come to a nuclear deal in three days.
33:13So, either he can take a thoughtful, long-term approach,
33:16or he can do what we know that President Trump has done in the past and say,
33:20what I have done now is greater than any president has done before.
33:23I'm going to wash my hands of this and I'll be done.
33:26My view is he is interested in his legacy here.
33:29He's not going to cave to the political pressure of increasing affordability prices in the U.S.
33:35He's not terribly concerned about Republicans losing the Senate.
33:40He feels like time is on his side here.
33:44Now, whether that translates into entering a negotiation or, quite likely,
33:49whether that means we enter into this Ukraine-Russia-like dynamic of just a permanent war
33:55that sometimes flares up, sometimes settles down, that remains to be seen.
33:59It is entirely dependent on President Trump himself.
34:03There are no other actors here or a paper process or a normal decision-making process
34:09to inform what that looks like.
34:12Okay.
34:13William Veshla, is there an apprehension that this could become like the Russia-Ukraine war?
34:19Because when we started reporting that war, initially it was said it'll be over in seven days.
34:24Then perhaps one month, then two months, and it's been on for four years and counting.
34:28Could this become a forever war?
34:32Yes, it could.
34:33But it's unlikely to become one that involves U.S. ground troops in any sustained condition.
34:41That's going to be the real difference between what you see in Ukraine and what you see in Iran.
34:47I hope it doesn't end up in that way, but it's quite a high probability at this point.
34:55Okay.
34:56Mohammed Khatibi, what are Iran's expectations from the second round of Islamabad dialogue?
35:04As I said, Iran wants a fair deal to come out of Islamabad, which includes Iran's rights
35:12and the United States recognizing Iran's rights to enrich uranium.
35:17Iran will not ban it for a long period of time, and it will not so-called dismantle its nuclear
35:27program as the United States wants.
35:30But as I said, Iran will try to ensure the United States and others that it is not seeking
35:38a nuclear war.
35:39And the issue right now is how much and how far the United States wants a deal.
35:47If the United States is trying to reach a deal, Iran is ready to give that deal to the United
35:54States and especially the Trump administration.
35:57Iran is ready to give the United States administration a victory sign, which Donald Trump wants it so
36:07badly that it carried out operations against Iran's leadership.
36:13It wants to show that Iran is willing to negotiate.
36:23Okay.
36:24Okay.
36:25But will state of Hormuz be open and free for all to come and go?
36:30Or will Iran take $2 million per ship to clear movement on the state of Hormuz?
36:37So, Iran has been heavily damaged by the attacks by the United States and Israel.
36:43And Iran wants compensation for that.
36:46If the United States agrees to pay for the damages caused on Iran, Iran will take it.
36:53If not, the Iranians are planning to...
37:02I seem to be losing that audio link with you.
37:06Will that be acceptable to President Trump?
37:08Daniel Silverberg, the last 30 seconds I have on this part of the show.
37:11Will that be acceptable for the United States?
37:14That fine claim victory, but Iran controls the state of Hormuz?
37:18Yes, there is free and open movement, but cleared by Iran.
37:21Free and open, cleared by Iran.
37:23And they enrich the uranium, they can have a negotiation how much?
37:29I have a very tough time seeing that, Gaurav.
37:31Fundamentally, President Trump, again, this is about legacy for him.
37:34He does not want to look like President Obama.
37:39A lot of Democrats are deeply frustrated about where we are right now.
37:43This did not need to happen.
37:45The JCPOA should not have been torn up, but we are where we are right now.
37:49And I have a difficult time seeing President Trump take any steps where he could be vulnerable
37:55to the criticism of, you just signed on to a worse deal than President Obama did.
38:01I think that he's going to look for alternative military options to open the strait and seize
38:09that enriched uranium before he signs on to a deal like that.
38:13Very interesting. And is that what will happen?
38:16Military operation at the Hormuz and take control of that enriched uranium by force.
38:22Will he actually do that?
38:23We'll be watching the space very closely.
38:25I want to thank all my guests for joining me.
38:28And we'll track that story closely.
38:30A quick break.
38:31On the other side, there's a big story that's coming up.
38:33Is India's corporate space becoming a new battleground for religious targeting?
38:39Because there are disturbing claims that have emerged from the TCS Nashik alleged conversion case.
38:45The lens is now on what political parties are calling corporate jihad.
38:51That story and lots more coming up. Stay with us.
39:00The TCS Nashik alleged conversion case has sparked a massive political and social debate
39:07over what many are now calling corporate jihad.
39:11Shocking survivor accounts detail months of mental harassment, coercion, religious targeting at a workplace.
39:19And that too had such a prestigious firm.
39:22A fourth victim has now come forward and told the police, gave details of her complaint, insisting her written complaints
39:29were ignored.
39:30She allegedly was stalked, inappropriately touched, and there was intrusive questioning.
39:38Earlier, another employee had accused her team leaders of sexual harassment, intimidation, and derogatory remarks about her religion, her faith,
39:49her beliefs.
39:50As this probe intensifies, this conversion racket is rapidly snowballing into a massive, massive flashpoint
39:59where questions are being asked, was this happening just at Nashik?
40:04Or is this a much bigger, planned, organized racket of forced conversion by team leaders at various places?
40:15Now there are calls for a wider investigation.
40:23Shocking survivor accounts have emerged from the TCS Nashik conversion ring case, detailing months of alleged workplace harassment and religious
40:32conversion.
40:34India today has accessed the police statement of the fourth victim, who has claimed that her seniors ignored repeated complaints.
40:43She has detailed how a senior employee stalked her and touched her inappropriately, and questioned her over being in the
40:51spotlight.
40:52The victim has also alleged that the senior asked her what kept her busy at night.
40:59Earlier in a police complaint, another woman employee at TCS Nashik BPO unit alleged sexual harassment, stalking, inappropriate touching,
41:09and derogatory remarks against her religion by five colleagues.
41:21In her statement, the complainant said she joined TCS in June 2025 and began training under Shah Rukh Qureshi, an
41:30another colleague.
41:31During this period, she alleged that a team leader, Raza Meman, would make personal and suggestive remarks.
41:37The victim detailed how her colleague, Asif Ansari, allegedly attempted to get physically close, said women get raped without a
41:46burqa, and looked at her with a filthy gaze.
41:49She alleged that he even mocked Hindu gods.
41:53The victim also detailed how Tawseef Atar allegedly made obscene comments and inappropriate physical advances,
42:00and Shafi Sheikh followed and intimidated her at the workplace.
42:06Meanwhile, Nida Khan, an accused named in one of the FIRs, got no relief from a court in Nasik.
42:13The court will now hear her interim bail application on April 27th.
42:18Earlier, TCS had clarified that Nida Khan was a process associate and not an HR or recruitment.
42:26As investigators tighten the net, the case continues to take over social media, with many calling it a case of
42:33corporate jihad.
42:44And the battle lines are very clearly drawn on this.
42:48Joining me on the special broadcast of Professor Geeta Bhatt, an academic.
42:52And Atiku Rahman is a researcher of Islamic studies.
42:55And I want to understand from you, Atiku Rahman, what do you make of these statements that this is organized
43:04corporate jihad,
43:06where these Muslim team leaders were coercing young Hindu girls, making fun of their religion, stalking them inappropriately,
43:15touching them, and the comments that have been made now in writing in complaints to the police, sir?
43:24Gaurav, since I am a humble researcher in Islamic studies, I limit my role in clarifying certain aspects of my
43:35religion,
43:36because my religion is into this, my people, my belief people are into this.
43:43And in the host of platforms, I have said that whoever of these people are involving themselves in such activities
43:52are, you know, inviting the wrath of Allah.
43:56The Quran does not permit it.
43:59Allah forbids forceful conversion.
44:01Allah forbids any lying, any luring, any kind of cheating in the name of religion, just to invite people in
44:09other faiths.
44:10Of course, our constitution gives us the right, but this right does not give the right to convert.
44:16The right is just a right to propagate.
44:18And I convey this message for the right to have to have Muslim.
44:22This is forcible conversion.
44:24The manner in which that complaint says, for example, forced to read namaz and recite kalma.
44:32Hindu gods and rituals were abused.
44:35And she is naming the people who made her do it.
44:39Or in one instance, a male employee was forced to wear a skull cap and offer namaz.
44:44What kind of team leaders would do this?
44:47And doing it, they create a, allegedly create a WhatsApp group and figure out who to target?
44:54These are punishable offenses.
44:56Under, you know, under Indian laws, they are punishable offenses.
45:01And the politicians you are mentioning that who are giving this name of corporate jihad, etc., etc.
45:07I don't understand why the politicians, even the Muslim side politicians, should be involving themselves.
45:14Because the inquiry has not been done thoroughly.
45:17The courts are not into this right now.
45:20There is no perfect case being made.
45:23So, unless there is a closure, unless there are arguments from both sides,
45:28I do not understand what mileage both side politicians want to draw from it.
45:36Okay.
45:37Give me a moment.
45:38Let me bring in Professor Geeta Bhatt into this conversation.
45:42Atiku Rahman says, whoever are these accused, take action as per law.
45:48Why bring a term like corporate jihad?
45:52Because Islam does not give permission for forcible conversion.
45:56Whatever was happening was at an individual level by certain accused.
46:00Take action against them.
46:04Gaurabji, you know, this case, it has come as such a shock to the whole nation.
46:10And it is having the grooming gangs, you know, in a new avatar.
46:15It was almost unthinkable to, you know, to connect to such a case where one of the most reputed and
46:23biggest corporate houses,
46:25you know, where any middle-class family would feel very proud that their daughters are working, you know,
46:31in such a well-established corporate house.
46:35Why?
46:36Because they believed in merit and professionalism and, you know, looking after the welfare, well-being of their employees.
46:44When in such a reputed company, it's such a case is happening where there has been, you know, coercion,
46:52there have been sexual assault, and very clearly there has been, you know,
46:58manipulation to convert these women into Islam.
47:02It is something which is very serious and we do not know.
47:07This may be just the tip of the iceberg.
47:09It may be happening, you know, in many other, you know, such kind of corporate houses.
47:15That's a big point you make.
47:16Let me bring in Atikur Rahman.
47:18Now, Raza pulled my saree.
47:21He made personal comments.
47:23One victim files in her complaint.
47:25Asif Ansari would attempt to target me physically.
47:29He would attempt to come close physically.
47:31He said, women get raped without wearing a burqa.
47:36Atikur Rahman, Professor Bhatt says, this is, this could just be the tip of the iceberg.
47:42This requires a wider investigation and not just here, but other places.
47:48Whether there are these organized gangs, you know, these grooming gangs.
47:51We heard of grooming gangs in the United Kingdom and unfortunately, they were too woke to take action for decades
47:58when 12, 13, 14 year old girls were getting gang raped in the UK.
48:02It seems, the allegation is that there are similar gangs operating in India, Dr. Atikur Rahman.
48:09Grooming gangs.
48:11Gaurav, thanks for the brief, because I could not hear what exactly Professor Gita said.
48:16There was not a word which I can listen to her.
48:19As you said, what she mentioned, that's what I am demanding.
48:24That there should be a very thorough probe.
48:26I do not wish to push anything under the carpet.
48:30I know there are radical elements in my society, my community.
48:35The Muslims throughout the world are getting radicalized in whatever, you know, kind of excuses they can give.
48:44But radicalization in the name of religion, I would say that the Muslims should differ from it.
48:50Because you are under very, very severe punishment if you cheat, if you try to bring in any other religious
49:00people into the fold of Islam by any forceful effect.
49:04So, my idea is very clear.
49:07Gita Ji, that whichever Muslim, and Gaurav, tell me, Gita Ji, tell me, are there only Muslims who are into,
49:15you know, some kind of radicalization?
49:17So, radicalization is there in any other community as it is in the Muslim community.
49:22So, this is radicalization and forced conversion of these people working in such a prestigious company like TCS, Professor Bhatt.
49:32There are multiple allegations including stalking, inappropriate remarks, intimidation.
49:38Is this being normalized when you hear that this was happening as part of a wider group?
49:44There was a lady who was a member of this group, you know, that accused Nida Khan.
49:51Then there were others in this group.
49:53When complaints were made to them, they didn't do anything about it.
49:56Does this require a wider investigation?
49:59Not just in one company, but otherwise also?
50:04So, Gaurav, definitely, please, I think there are three things which are of concern.
50:11The first is that for four years, you know, these kind of issues were being raised.
50:18There are emails, there are recordings of audio talks, chats, which very explicitly show that there was this kind of
50:27intimidation and sexual harassment on the basis of religion that was happening there.
50:33And no one was listening to the complaints.
50:36These complaints were being written.
50:37There are nine FIRs and in these FIRs, this has been explicitly, these points have been raised.
50:45So, why is it that, you know, the higher officials were not listening into these facts of these emails and
50:51why they are being repeatedly put forward, showing that something was not right at this, you know, at this branch
50:57of TCS?
50:58Do some companies have an anti-Hindu bias?
51:02Yes, is also a question that is being raised very extensively on social media.
51:07And it's no longer confined to any one company.
51:10What began as a shocking allegation of harassment and forced religious targeting in one company has now put multiple other
51:18companies under public scrutiny.
51:20Now there are questions being asked about, were some companies banning Kalawa?
51:28Were some companies banning a Tilak or a Tika, but were okay with a Burka or a Niqab?
51:35And such questions are now being asked across social media.
51:40Different standards, different yardsticks.
51:42Social media is actually digging up past statements, questioning corporate conduct and double standards.
51:49And they're amplifying, the outrage is being amplified and companies perhaps should have one system, not dual standards or double
51:58standards in the name of what many are describing is pseudo-secularism.
52:03We get you more in this report.
52:07Do you know the health benefits of Namaz?
52:09And it's truly incredible.
52:11Number one, it's a full body exercise.
52:13So good for flexibility.
52:15Blood circulation improves.
52:17Great for your joints and knees.
52:19Secondly, it's very big for mental health because there's repetition, there's focus, it's almost like a form of meditation.
52:27Co-founder of a 32,000 crore rupee start-up, a Shark Tank superstar, Namita Thapar is now knee-deep
52:36in controversy.
52:38In a video release on 25th of March, days after Eid, the 49-year-old had thanked a friend for
52:44explaining how Namaz could have health benefits.
52:47Calling it truly incredible, she described Namaz as a form of full body exercise that improves flexibility and blood circulation.
52:56Under normal circumstances, it may have passed quietly, but the mood in the country had changed, with Thapar facing a
53:04massive social media backlash.
53:06In the past three weeks, people are calling me, non-stop, and my darling mom is also giving a name
53:14of my darling mom.
53:16For what?
53:16For making a reel on the health benefits of Namaz?
53:20I'm a healthcare professional.
53:22I have made so many Hindu religions on their health benefits.
53:26Every yoga day, I have made asanas, especially Surya Namaskar's reels, when someone hasn't said anything, especially two women.
53:34Reservation bill passed, so they all say.
53:38But when there's a disrespect to two women, then why do silence?
53:41The spark was lit by alleged religious harassment and conversions in the country's largest IT bellwether, Tata Consultancy Services, horror
53:52stories of which have dominated national headlines even in the election season.
53:57The fire has now spread, sinking sharks of the Indian startup ecosystem, the 1 lakh crore rupee Lenskart Solutions, and
54:07the 32,000 crore rupee M-Cure Pharma.
54:10The story began on the 9th of April, with the arrest of several TCS employees in Nasik.
54:16The shocking police action was not about computer wizardry gone wrong.
54:20It wasn't even corporate scandal involving money.
54:23It was about something much darker.
54:25Soon, every promoter, every workplace, even HR policy was under the scanner.
54:31And social media was the catalyst.
54:34Internet never forgets, all posts, all views, all comments posted online were dug out.
54:41Lenskart hit the headlines next.
54:44Criticised after a reported internal dress code policy for April 2026,
54:49said that store employees could not wear religious symbols like tilak, bindi or kalawa while on duty.
54:56At the same time, other religious clothing, such as hijab and turbans, were reportedly allowed.
55:02Fury on social media spread faster than the screenshots of the policy.
55:08Lenskart clarified that the policy was being misunderstood and said it respected all religions equally.
55:14But by then, the damage was done.
55:18Protests were reported from cities like Surat and Mumbai, with people calling for a boycott of the brand.
55:46Lenskart said,
55:58The social media backlash is now spilling over to Dalal Street.
56:02The shares of M-Cure Pharmaceuticals slipped nearly 3% in trade
56:07and Lenskart plunging 6% before staging a smart recovery.
56:11For investors, the message is clear.
56:14A company policy or even one video can now spark a huge meltdown.
56:19The TCS case, the Lenskart Rao and Namita Thapar's video are different issues
56:25but people are connecting them and the companies are being watched more closely than ever.
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