- 5 minutes ago
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00Another great season, another great episode last week,
00:04and just a half hour away from the brand new episode
00:07of The Curse of Oak Island.
00:09And the brothers have done it again.
00:11They've allowed me access to sit down one-on-one with them.
00:14Guys, thank you so much for doing this again.
00:16You're so welcome, Matty Blake.
00:35You guys look great.
00:36I gotta say, six years into this thing,
00:39what do you guys do to take care of yourself?
00:40I was joking with you, Marty, we could call this the gun show.
00:42Oh, please.
00:44Please.
00:44What do you guys do to take care of yourself?
00:46It's a long grind.
00:47Do you guys do anything?
00:48Nothing.
00:49I run a little bit.
00:50I don't, you know, I don't work out that much.
00:52Because it's long days, hard work.
00:53I mean, Rick, you're out there.
00:55You're real physically active.
00:57Not enough, as far as I'm concerned.
00:58Don't bother you.
00:59Part of the frustration, the scope and scale of the work
01:02this year has exceeded our ability to engage,
01:05at least on an eight-hour schedule, if you will.
01:08Actually, I learned something.
01:09There's too much to do.
01:10I learned something about my brother in this deal.
01:12He always had the reputation of being a really good worker,
01:16which he is.
01:16Yeah.
01:17But even we in the family thought that he really liked to work.
01:21So one night, I was sitting over at his house,
01:23and I said, you know, you really like this work, don't you?
01:25And he said, look, I want to tell you something.
01:27This was a huge revelation.
01:29He says, I hate working.
01:31I hate working.
01:33But I don't like it, but I'm going to get it done.
01:36And that's how you feel, right?
01:38Some people love to work.
01:39I don't.
01:40But I love getting things done.
01:42Ah, that's an interesting distinction.
01:44And I'm surprised in a way that you even say that,
01:46because when I think of you, I actually think work.
01:48I get it.
01:49The process isn't always fun, but the results.
01:51The process isn't always fun.
01:52It has to be done, he's going to do it.
01:53Love it.
01:54You got it.
01:55All right, let's dive right in and talk about some of the results of both of your hard work.
02:00Last week's episode, the stunning find on the new boulderless beach, as I call it, although very old.
02:06This old, possibly iron artifact.
02:11Unbelievable.
02:12Look at this.
02:14What is it?
02:16It's got a little tip on the end.
02:18I mean, this is old.
02:19We're talking like Templar old.
02:22And then you start to get results back from it.
02:26That pyramidal tip was part of a lot of medieval weaponry, like crossbow bolts, but not with such a long
02:34neck like that.
02:35So I went through just dozens of references, really couldn't find it, couldn't nail it down to the medieval period.
02:43So I started going back in time.
02:46Back in time?
02:47What it appears to be is Roman.
02:54No way!
02:56That is unbelievable.
02:58Really?
03:00Roman, and I saw your face, and you're doing it again now, Marty.
03:04Tell me what you thought when you heard Roman.
03:05You run through a gamut of emotions within a minute.
03:08I mean, you go through, well, that's ridiculous, to, well, wait a minute, maybe.
03:14And then the rational side says that this guy's an expert.
03:18And, you know, he, if you watched, which you did, you see how sheepish he sort of looked.
03:23I mean, he had to fumble around before he could even say it, but that was his opinion.
03:27So then you go from complete incredulity to, well, I guess it's possible.
03:35And because this place is so crazy, anyway, that you can't rule out the ultra-crazy until you rule it
03:41out.
03:42I mean, if you're willing to buy that the Templars were here, if you're willing to buy that, which a
03:47lot of people are,
03:48it remains to be seen from me, why wouldn't they have brought a collection of old weapons?
03:53It might have been, you know, I mean, it could have been part of their treasure.
03:55Right, because it's Roman. If it were to be Roman, it doesn't necessarily mean the Romans were here.
04:00No, no.
04:01I can see why that word would cause you guys great hesitation.
04:04Of course.
04:05Because of that.
04:06It's way out there.
04:07Yeah.
04:07I try to keep an open mind on all things Oak Island.
04:10You have to.
04:11This is a real mystery.
04:13We're trying to apply real science with real professionals.
04:17So you take it step by step by step.
04:20Never rule it out.
04:21Mr. Blankenship gave us some sage advice early on, keep an open mind, keep your eyes and wits about you.
04:28And that's what we continue to do.
04:29But the jury is still out, certainly.
04:32Right.
04:32And when you get a curveball like that, I know what you're going to want to do, and that's submit
04:36it to somebody else.
04:37No, there's no question about it.
04:38Yeah, let somebody else look at it.
04:39Results of the seismic.
04:40We are drilling.
04:41It's so exciting.
04:42And boy, coconut fiber again, but not down at Smith's Cove, up near the money pit.
04:50What's that, Brennan?
04:51160.
04:55That's really gravelly, but it's mostly limestone.
04:57See that tan color?
04:58That's limestone.
05:00And there's silt.
05:01There's, you know, organics in there.
05:06What is that?
05:08That's weird.
05:10I think this is coconut fiber.
05:15What does this mean, guys?
05:17One of the things we've always tried to do is to prove the old stories correct, right?
05:24Well, the coconut fiber is inherently one of the cornerstones, if you will, of the story of Oak Island.
05:31So when you find what we believe, again, the caveat being we have to apply real science, when you think
05:39you found coconut fiber in the money pit, that's huge.
05:43That's absolutely huge.
05:45The caveat, again, being let's test it and see.
05:49Yeah, look at the difference.
05:51I mean, okay, if you find coconut fiber on a northern island, that's odd and rare, but you could come
05:57up with plausible reasons.
05:59You know, a ship empties their cargo.
06:00They used it for dunnage.
06:01They'd dump it on the beach because people weren't so fastidious years ago.
06:05It's really hard to come up with a reason for it being at 150 feet, you know, other than something
06:11dramatic.
06:12Right.
06:12And some of the old stories indicate that, you know, at one of the levels, every 10-foot level in
06:17the money pit, there was coconut fiber laid down.
06:19Well, speaking of dramatic and stories, it was highs and lows last week.
06:25Of course, we lost a member of the team, Zena Halpern.
06:30And I want to talk about some of that, but also some of the positives of what that person brought
06:36to the table.
06:38We are back with the brothers one-on-one.
06:42Guys, when we left, I had mentioned Zena Halpern and her loss to the team.
06:48I know, Rick, for you, that was especially emotional.
06:50How did you meet Zena in the first place?
06:52I heard of her research through Doug Kroll, and then I just picked up the phone and had to call.
07:00From the first time speaking with her, she's so enthusiastic.
07:04Even now, I speak of her in the present tense.
07:07She captivated me.
07:08You know how some people have the intangibles?
07:10Yes.
07:11She had the intangible.
07:12And I just, it was special talking.
07:22It was special talking to her.
07:24And she brought so much to the effort.
07:30Not just the research, her enthusiasm, her knack for never being down, always being upbeat,
07:39taking the slightest little treasure of a clue and expounding upon it.
07:45Her favorite phrase was, that's dynamite.
07:47And literally, it was dynamite because it would blow up over the phone.
07:52You could sense her excitement.
07:54I have a template document that is dated 1178 to 1180.
08:01There was a mention in the document that the Templars had made landfall on an island of Oaks.
08:12And, you know, you get an impression of a person over the phone, right?
08:16So when we first met her, we knocked on the door and I don't know what my expectations was.
08:22Oh, my goodness.
08:24How wonderful to meet you.
08:26Wonderful to meet you.
08:28But here's this diminutive little woman.
08:30And I'm thinking, how can such a person, such a persona be within this tiny little woman?
08:37And yet, she was larger than life.
08:39A tour de force.
08:41A tour de force.
08:42And from that nice little apartment in Long Island to the world and back in time,
08:48she opened up the search in a lot of ways.
08:50And you know what I'm struck by?
08:51It just hit me, actually.
08:53And I said this a few seasons ago.
08:55Your work with Fred Nolan, and he was a longtime believer in the British military.
08:59And right around the time of his passing, boom, you find evidence of a British military encampment.
09:04And Xena Halpern talking about Knights Templar and these theories and these potential testimony about a Knights Templar coming here
09:13a long time ago.
09:14And all of a sudden, boom, we start finding Knights' possible links to the Templar.
09:19It's interesting.
09:20I remember, speaking of that, when we first called her and told her about the find of Drayton's Cross, she
09:26was over the moon ecstatic.
09:29You know, like I said, some people you click with and in that moment, you know, you realize you've gone
09:36beyond just research.
09:37You've gone beyond a scholarly pursuit and what it has ended up is a very wonderful friendship.
09:44No wonder what he wants to find Knights Templar workings on this island.
09:48I mean, that's her whole theory, right?
09:50And she was a qualified historian.
09:52There's no question about it.
09:53And I'm sure, you know, it would turn conventional history flat on its ear, wouldn't it?
09:58I mean, her connection with Oak Island really came relatively late in her life because her early association was her
10:07degree was pre-Columbian discovery of the new world.
10:10You know, she was a self-taught expert in the field.
10:14I mean, the volume of her research really is that in that arena, and it is my hope that that
10:20research can be dedicated to an academic institution in her name.
10:25Yeah, but I want to just say something.
10:27This I do know.
10:28This feelings ran both ways because she, in her will, gave Rick her entire data collection, and that is both
10:38a blessing and a curse because you're going to have to go through all that.
10:41That's incredible.
10:42Well, you know, I mean, in that arena, I'll have a lot of help.
10:48Doug will help.
10:49Paul will help.
10:50I have lots of people that are willing to dive into making sure that her research is well and truly
10:57used.
10:57Well, Marty, you're right.
10:59What an honor to be the heir to all that work.
11:02And it speaks to the relationship you had with her.
11:04And, you know, we say it all the time.
11:06That's one of the great treasures of Oak Island is the relationships.
11:08Sure, there's no question.
11:08The people here.
11:10So, I'm sorry for your loss.
11:12Sorry for our loss.
11:14The research continues.
11:16Yes.
11:16And when we mention research, I think it would be smart to call in someone who does a lot of
11:23it.
11:26The Oak Island treasure hunt is just that, a hunt.
11:29And it involves a lot of searching.
11:30But there are different ways to search.
11:32And so we welcome Doug Crowell.
11:34Doug, how are you, buddy?
11:35Very good.
11:35Thanks for being here.
11:36You know, we were just talking about Xena's research and I was stunned in the scene in the episode last
11:42week when Rick got to her place and he walked in that little room that was just jammed with papers
11:50and documents and books.
11:51So, everything here on the floor, we went through and we made sure this is all absolute research.
11:59You can see a lot of the books with all of the post-its and the notes and then there's
12:09still the closet behind you.
12:10Oh, yeah.
12:11I think our next step here is to start looking through things and start boxing up.
12:16That would be, that would be the project.
12:19One of my first thoughts, honestly, was poor Doug.
12:24How do you even begin to sort through that?
12:28It's going to be a challenge.
12:29She had a lot of organization to her notes.
12:31It's like everything.
12:33She has such a diverse interest, especially in her early research, that it doesn't necessarily relate to Oak Island.
12:40There is a lot that does.
12:42So, I think we'll start there and we'll work out from there.
12:46But Doug, when you see all that stuff and you know you have to work through it as your emotion,
12:50oh boy, I get to work through this?
12:52Or, oh my God, I got to work through this?
12:55I'm curious.
12:55No, no.
12:56Not at all.
12:57I mean...
12:57Which one?
12:59It's a good thing.
12:59All right.
13:00Excitement.
13:01I think we had a common interest in history.
13:04Her primary interest was pre-Columbian visitation to the New World.
13:10The whole Templar angle is something she fell into and this Cremona document seemed to suggest that there was indeed
13:19an early voyage.
13:21When you go to an archive, you're looking for something that's relevant and you may have to go through hundreds,
13:26if not thousands of pages to find that item that's relevant.
13:30Zena's already gathered this work.
13:32Like, everything that's in her body of research has the potential to be relevant.
13:37So, that's what's also exciting because this is really almost a lifetime of work.
13:43Doug, you mentioned the Cremona doc.
13:44I want to drill down on that a little bit more.
13:46Tell me a little bit about what its history is, what we know about it, and do you give it
13:51any validity?
13:51The Cremona document is something that Zena was made aware of through the research of Dr. William Jackson.
14:03I know what this is.
14:05I don't know if it's in its entirety.
14:08But this is the Ralph de Sudile deposition of his trip to the New World.
14:15This is the Cremona document itself.
14:19This is at the core of your mother's research.
14:25It tells the story of a Templar knight who comes to the New World on a mission.
14:29And I think there's a lot that needs to be vetted in this.
14:33But when you talk to Zena about it, I mean, she believed.
14:37Oh, yes.
14:37She believed fully in it.
14:38She was researching it.
14:40She was vetted it herself.
14:41And I think a lot of what we need to look at is in those files.
14:46I haven't had a chance to spend any time with it.
14:48Is it written in a first person?
14:50Is it a confession?
14:50Or is it a tale told as the author remembered it?
14:56It was written in several different languages over a period of time.
14:59And it reads sometimes in the first person, sometimes not.
15:06Interesting.
15:07Yeah, it is a really interesting document.
15:09What caught my interest, of course, was the cipher.
15:13That was the first connection I saw in Zena's work to Oak Island.
15:17And, of course, the Cremona document itself mentions a stopover at an Isle of Oaks.
15:23And there's a lot of intrigue in this, I think.
15:27There's a lot yet to be vetted. A lot.
15:30Well, Doug, your research has been incredible.
15:32And you've already yielded great results.
15:34And I know we all look forward to seeing what you can come up with with Zena's work moving forward.
15:41While the time has flown getting inside the dig with Rick and Marty Lagina, and we're just moments away from
15:47the all-new episode, I want to talk about Shaft 6.
15:50I did get to see a sneak preview of tonight's episode.
15:54And there's a lot about this Shaft 6.
15:57And I need you to help me understand it, why this could be so important.
16:01Two reasons.
16:02One, very few of the old archival records, to me, read real.
16:07The description of that Shaft and what happened, the cataclysmic collapse of the Money Pit, reads real to me, that
16:14description.
16:15We're down to the deck where that, we went to the, I think it was Shaft 6.
16:20They went to 118, and then went across, and they had the big cave-in.
16:26So, I think that's the one we're seeing right here.
16:29The idea was to dig Shaft 6, and then go below the depth of the treasure chamber in the Money
16:35Pit,
16:36and then run a tunnel across, and then come up underneath the Money Pit, and extract the treasure, and off
16:42you go.
16:43Unfortunately, they forgot about, you know.
16:45Hydraulics.
16:46Exactly.
16:47Exactly.
16:47How so?
16:48Oh, my goodness, that was, that was destined to fail.
16:52Because if, I was just thinking, if they breach that, and it's filled with water, I mean, not to be
16:56a judge.
16:56No, no, no.
16:56No, you come up, up into a column of water, come up into a column of water from underneath.
17:01That's what I mean.
17:02You know, you're talking, uh, there was how many feet of water in the hole at the time?
17:06Treasure chamber was about at 113 feet.
17:10So, they were at, about 30 feet down, right?
17:13Well, let's think about that.
17:14No, the chateau flooded with water to, to title.
17:17Right.
17:17So, about 30 feet down.
17:19No.
17:19So, about 70 feet of water.
17:20Yes.
17:20Yeah, okay.
17:21That would have the pressure of about your automobile tire, okay?
17:25Only with all the weight of the water coming down at once, okay?
17:29So, it's a picture of the biggest automobile tire you've ever seen, and you're going to drill up into it.
17:33I mean, no, it's not going to work, and it's liquid, not air.
17:37I mean, it's just going to be a massive collapse, which?
17:40Which is exactly what happened.
17:42There was a cataclysmic collapse.
17:44The force of the collapse was such that it drove mud and timbers and whatever into the cross-connect tunnel
17:51and filled it up, and it was so violent that it came up shaft six about 12 feet.
17:57Well, whatever was in that depositional chamber above, perhaps, as part of the collapse, broke open, and the hope is
18:05that there's something in that tunnel.
18:06Because they, they cleared shaft six and then started clearing the cross-connect tunnel.
18:11Unfortunately, it was deemed unsafe, and they stopped.
18:14But there's no record of, of how far they went.
18:18So, you find shaft six, you might be able to find the tunnel, and maybe the tunnel is filled with
18:22the stuff that went whoosh.
18:24Exactly.
18:26It just seems so difficult, and yet you're so close to it, too.
18:30The hope is that within that tunnel is the one thing.
18:33The one thing.
18:34At least.
18:36And, and how confident are we that we might be on it?
18:41You know, we know from the archival record that there's, much about it is in dispute, perhaps even misleading, certainly
18:49not consistent.
18:51So, we've done the best we could.
18:53I, I credit Paul and Doug and Charles for doing a lot of this work, almost all of this work.
18:59Yeah, that's where those, I don't mean to interrupt, but I got to, because he always credits Henske at this
19:03point, too,
19:04which you're, of course, sort of forgetting to do, I think, one time.
19:07We put all the data on one piece of paper under his leadership.
19:10We put all the data on one piece of paper, and then these guys got after it.
19:14And they compared everything to everything to try and figure out, okay, if shaft six is here, and the orientation
19:20of this tunnel is this way, we need to dig here.
19:23And we also had some geotechnical drilling information.
19:27As part of that program, we came up with a horizontal piece of wood, a vertical piece, and another horizontal
19:33piece, perhaps indicating a tunnel.
19:36You've got your cribby on the top, you've got your cribby on the side, and then the floor.
19:43And it's the right height.
19:44But much about the money pit that we have learned is, like I said, there's more that we do not
19:51understand than we do understand.
19:53This is part hope, part belief, part factual.
19:58It's amazing you mentioned Dan Hensky.
19:59I was just thinking the guy who helped hand dig 10X is still putting holes in the ground in a
20:05way.
20:05Sure.
20:06It's pretty cool.
20:08I'll tell you this.
20:09I think even today Dan Hensky would re-dig 10X.
20:12Yes, he would.
20:12I think he would.
20:13I think he could do it, too.
20:14Guys, it's time for the all-new episode.
20:16Thanks again for this access.
20:18The fans love it.
20:19I love it.
20:20And thank you.
20:22We'll see you again.
20:23We'll do it again.
20:24All right.
20:24Potential breakthroughs, and I'm told maybe a new building on Oak Island?
20:29It's time to find out.
20:31The brand new episode of The Curse of Oak Island starts now.
Comments