- 3 hours ago
Coachella has become the biggest festival in America — and it rewrote the live music playbook in the process. Katie Bain, Billboard's senior music correspondent, director of Billboard Dance, joins Billboard On The Record to break down how a scrappy desert show founded by then-local promoter Goldenvoice turned into a global cultural force, from the early Pearl Jam experiment to era-defining performances by Beyoncé, Daft Punk and Frank Ocean. She dives into the high-stakes gamble of booking a lineup, the business behind ticketing, sponsorships and livestreams and how moments like Radiohead’s 2006 set and Beyoncé’s Homecoming shifted the festival’s identity from alt-rock roots to global pop dominance.
Love what you hear? Follow Billboard On The Record on Instagram, TikTok, Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Youtube @billboard so you never miss an episode.
To purchase a copy of 'Desert Dreams: The Music, Style and Allure of Coachella' by Katie Bain, click here: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/desert-dreams-katie-bain/1146904065?ean=9780760397558. .
Billboard On The Record is a podcast in partnership with SickBird Productions.
Host:
Kristin Robinson
Executive Producers:
Diona DaCosta
Jade Watson
Produced By:
Kayla Forman
Mateo Vergara
Edited By:
Rachel Derbyshire
Love what you hear? Follow Billboard On The Record on Instagram, TikTok, Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Youtube @billboard so you never miss an episode.
To purchase a copy of 'Desert Dreams: The Music, Style and Allure of Coachella' by Katie Bain, click here: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/desert-dreams-katie-bain/1146904065?ean=9780760397558. .
Billboard On The Record is a podcast in partnership with SickBird Productions.
Host:
Kristin Robinson
Executive Producers:
Diona DaCosta
Jade Watson
Produced By:
Kayla Forman
Mateo Vergara
Edited By:
Rachel Derbyshire
Category
🎵
MusicTranscript
00:00Coachella is back. The music festival returns to Indio, California this weekend with headline
00:05performances from Justin Bieber, Sabrina Carpenter, and Carol G. Coachella, however, is more than just
00:11a festival. It's a bucket list item for artists of all shapes and sizes, and performances are
00:16live-streamed to an audience of millions on YouTube around the world, making it one of the
00:20biggest and most impactful stages possible in music. Today, I'm joined by my colleague, Katie
00:26Bain. She's a senior correspondent, director of Billboard Dance, and the author of Desert
00:30Dreams, the music style and allure of Coachella, to talk through the history and business behind
00:35the big festival.
00:40Katie Bain, welcome to On The Record.
00:42Thank you so much. A long-time fan, first-time caller.
00:46I'm so happy to have you here. I love it when I can have my coworkers on and talk about
00:50different
00:50topics that really pertain to their area of expertise. And so when I knew Coachella was
00:56coming up, I was like, I have to have Katie. Because, I mean, you have a book. It's literally
00:59right there. Can you see it in the shot? Yeah, okay. So Desert Dreams came out, what, a few
01:04months ago?
01:05It came out in October.
01:06October. Oh, my gosh.
01:07Okay, time flies.
01:08It does.
01:08Okay, so how did you end up getting involved with this book?
01:12Yeah, so it kind of fell in my lap. The publisher got in touch with me through another podcast
01:17I was on, actually, about Coachella a few years ago. And they were looking for someone to write
01:22a book about Coachella. And I became the guy.
01:27Oh, my gosh. I love that. I love that. So you're going to go back to the desert. You're
01:31covering Coachella for us again. You've done this many times already, which is a very tough
01:36gig, by the way. People don't know this, but it's not an easy gig.
01:40It actually, thank you for saying that, because I don't think people do know, because I'm like,
01:43oh, it's so hard covering Coachella. And people are like, you know, like, it's easy to dismiss.
01:47But you're writing until three or four in the morning for three nights in a row after
01:53being at Coachella all day. Like, it's pretty grueling physically.
01:57Yeah. And I mean, also, you're not just sitting there, like, enjoying the performances and
02:01letting it all pass you by. You're, like, scrambling to write down the words or, like,
02:05the song titles for everything, what's happening on stage.
02:07Exactly. I mean, as time has gone by, I just now take videos, because I feel like they're
02:12the most effective notes. But it's also just getting from this stage to that stage, to that
02:16stage, to that stage, to make sure that we have coverage on everything that we want to
02:20cover. And then going back to the house and then trying to, like, pull eloquent sentences
02:24from your brain after a day of, you know, the sun.
02:28Yeah. Well, okay. So what are your must-sees for 2026 Coachella?
02:31Yeah, there are a few. I'm really excited about Nine Inch Noise, which is Nine Inch Nails and
02:36Boy's Noise, who is one of my favorite producers. And they've been, he's been opening for them
02:41on their Peel It Back tour. So this is their first show. I mean, they've been collaborating
02:45a bit on the tour, but this is their first proper show is Nine Inch Noise. So it's going
02:49to be really cool. Okay. I'm excited to see Geese, because everybody loves Geese. I am
02:55excited for, sorry, I'm going to have to look at my notes. Yeah, there's a lot going on.
03:01Well, what headline are you covering? I am going to cover, I think, Sabrina Carpenter.
03:07Okay. Yeah. Which is like a good full circle for me, because I was there in 2024 when she
03:12had her Coachella debut on the same stage, but obviously at a much earlier time of day,
03:17it was still light out. I think Espresso would come out the day before. Oh, yeah. And she
03:22said at some point during this, like, I'm going to headline Coachella someday. And then
03:26two years later, here she is. It's incredible. It's incredible how much fortunes can change
03:30in just a couple short years, because she's been grinding for so long. And then it was
03:34like, Espresso was just the meteoric moment. 100%. Yeah. But that's also so interesting about
03:39booking festivals as you book them, like, about like a year out, right?
03:43It must be. I was trying to do the math on that, because the lineup came out, I think,
03:48September 15th. So that's October, November, December, January, February, March, April. So we're
03:52already, you know, seven months ahead of the festival. So yeah, a year feels reasonable,
03:58but I don't know the exact math there. Yeah. But I mean, so much can change for an artist's
04:02career in the span of a year. Well, totally. And like, that's why the lineups, I think,
04:06are really interesting. Like, I think Paul Tillet, you know, one of the co-founders of Golden Voice
04:10said in an article, like, doing a lineup is kind of like gambling, because artists could be really hot
04:16today, but their fortunes could go down in the, you know, the seven months between when the lineup
04:20comes out and when the festival happens. Yeah. So you kind of roll the dice with every booking.
04:24That's so interesting. Okay, well, let's take it back. You mentioned Paul Tillet.
04:28He founded Golden Voice, co-founded Golden Voice, and also founded Coachella. So let's start
04:33with some little Coachella history. Can you tell me about how Coachella got started? This was late
04:3990s, right? Yeah. Set the scene for us. So, I mean, Golden Voice is really a product of the Southern
04:45California punk rock scene, because that's where Paul Tillet was coming from. He was a punk promoter in
04:50Pomona, which is in the Inland Empire, east of LA. And then Gary Tovar, the co-founder, was also a
04:58punk
04:58promoter in Orange County, you know, all over the place, like the Southern California region. And so they
05:03were, like, ostensibly competitors, but they met one day, and they found that they liked each other, they
05:09started promoting each other's shows, and they created Golden Voice. Simultaneously, not simultaneously, but in
05:16that same period, let's say, everyone remembers when Pearl Jam had their famous, like, showdown with
05:21Ticketmaster. And so they were touring for their album Versus, and this was like 93, and they were not
05:31going to play Southern California, because there was not a non-Ticketmaster
05:35affiliated venue. And so they said, if, you know, someone can find us a spot to play that, you know,
05:41we don't have to sell tickets through Ticketmaster, we will come to SoCal. Paul Tillet was the one that
05:47was like, well, the Empire Polo Club is about 125 miles east of LA. Especially in those days, it was,
05:52they really considered the boondocks. It was far away, it was a desert town. Pearl Jam agreed.
05:56Wow. And so they had kind of what they didn't know at the time, but it was like a prototype
06:01event when Pearl Jam played out there in 93. And it went really well. A lot of people came up
06:06from LA,
06:06of course, and it really demonstrated that you could throw shows on that field.
06:11Interesting. And also, I think we take for granted that, like, the festival scene at that time was
06:17just starting, but it wasn't really much of a thing around the time that Coachella was started.
06:22Right. Which is so fascinating because obviously the festival market in the States now is massive.
06:29But yeah, at the time, you're absolutely right. There were touring festivals. There was,
06:32of course, Lollapalooza. There was Horde Festival. There was the Warped Tour. There was Lilith Fair,
06:3997, 98, 99. But there wasn't really that iconic.
06:46Like a Glastonbury type thing for the U.S.
06:48There was no Glastonbury. There was no Redding. I mean, obviously, we had Woodstock in 69,
06:54but that was already, you know, 25, 30 years.
06:57Yeah. Yeah. And then, okay, so I was reading your book. And the thing that really stood out to me,
07:02something I didn't know before, is that Woodstock 99, which was a huge, huge disaster. Can't explain
07:09to you guys enough, like, how big of a disaster this was.
07:11If you don't know, watch the documentary immediately because it's an unmitigated disaster. The people
07:18that got trench mouth because of the bad water, like, it just went wrong in every single way.
07:23Yeah. Yeah. No. So it was a total disaster. Woodstock 99. It was the revamp of Woodstock 69.
07:29Trying to bring it back did not go well. And then in your book, you were talking about how
07:34Coachella's tickets went live for the first ever Coachella the next day.
07:38Isn't that fascinating? That's crazy. Yeah. And it was obviously, like, other side of the country,
07:43very different setting because Woodstock 99 happened in an Air Force base. There was no shade.
07:50There was no water. It was, like, very poorly planned. And then Coachella kind of comes along,
07:54and it's this Eden, ostensibly, of palm trees and grass and bougainvillea in the desert. And,
08:01you know, ultimately then offered a very alternative vibe from Woodstock 99. I did talk to people
08:08that were there for the first year, and they said that having seen what happened at Woodstock 99,
08:12there was a little bit of maybe a little anxiety in the air of just, like, is that going to
08:17happen
08:18here as well? But of course, it did not. Yeah. Yeah. So how did the first Coachella happen? Like,
08:23was it good? Did it go all according? By all accounts, it was great. Yeah. The LA Times gave
08:27it a rave review. So did Rolling Stone. They noted, like, the attendees were very nice. It was hot.
08:33Yeah. It was really hot that day, as it, you know, tends to be out there. But, you know,
08:38talking to some friends, yeah, again, who were there, they said that from that first year,
08:43it felt as special as it still feels now. Like, they knew that it was special and different from
08:48the very beginning. Yeah. I mean, Coachella now is absolutely gigantic. Would you say it's,
08:54like, the biggest U.S. festival? I feel like it is, right? It must be. Or culturally the biggest.
08:59I think that's fair to say. Certainly. And, like, culturally one of the world's biggest. Absolutely.
09:02Yeah. What was the turning point where it went from, like, this is a fun SoCal festival,
09:07people enjoy it, locals love it, to this huge behemoth that it is today? I think there are a
09:12few benchmarks along the way. I think that when they booked Radiohead in 2006, they were the biggest
09:18band in the world. Of course, they had had big bands before, but Radiohead was really kind of,
09:23like, it. And so to get an artist of that caliber at the festival, I think, really,
09:29you know, increased Coachella's stature. Yeah. Let's say. And then, of course, the other big
09:34moment that I talk about a lot is when the festival went from one to two weekends. And when was
09:39that?
09:39It was 2012. 2012. Yeah. And it was really, like, it emphasized just, like, the insane demand
09:45for this event. Either that year or the year after is when they also launched the live stream,
09:52which was a huge deal because it opened Coachella up, not just to the people that were there on the
09:57grounds, like, the people that knew about it, but the whole world could then watch Coachella on YouTube.
10:03And that, I think, is when it became this worldwide phenomenon.
10:06Yeah. I mean, I don't want to be hyperbolic in saying this, but I feel like because of the
10:11live stream, because of the two weekends, being a headliner at Coachella is probably the biggest
10:17stage behind Super Bowl for an artist. Yeah. To be a headliner at Coachella, that is probably the
10:22second biggest. I think you're right. Opportunity. Yeah. It just, it feels like it has such a huge
10:27cultural impact. I mean, we could also get into, like, all of the iconic headlining sets over the
10:31years, but Beyonce's homecoming always stands out to me as one of those moments where it just,
10:36like, really defines a person's legacy. Absolutely. I mean, I was there. I was very,
10:42very lucky to be there. Do you want to talk about that show? Yeah, let's do it. Okay,
10:45how much time do you have? Oh, I can be here all day. So I remember a friend of mine's
10:51boyfriend
10:52at the time worked in production. So we were kind of getting these reports of, like, what was
10:56happening backstage. And the rumor was, like, Beyonce just showed up with, like, 60 trucks.
11:02Maybe that number is overblown or, like, has grown in my head over the years, but, like,
11:05the rumor was, like, she's here and she has a lot of stuff. There's a lot of, like, people in
11:10tow. There's a lot of, like, things. You could just feel, I'm a huge Beyonce fan. Yeah. So I,
11:17like, as the set time got closer, I could feel just the anticipation rising myself. But I always
11:22say, like, it's hard. It's a big field, that main stage. And there must be space for, you know,
11:2970, 80, 90,000 people. Obviously, they try to do some counter-programming, so not every single
11:35person at the festival is standing there, because that wouldn't necessarily be safe.
11:39Yeah.
11:39But it's really hard, and I've only felt it a few times, where it felt like she had everybody
11:47from the first row all the way to the back. Like, everyone was really with her, and everyone
11:52was in it together. And it was kind of just this, like, closed container of energy and, like,
11:57experience. Beyonce was the first black woman to headline Coachella. Also, I think it was a really
12:03interesting moment for pop music at Coachella, because she had meant to, she was supposed to
12:09headline in 2017. She had to drop out, because she was pregnant with her twins. Lady Gaga filled
12:13in. And of course, she was touring at that time behind Lemonade, which is a really interesting
12:19album for her, because I feel like it kind of made Beyonce, you know, a pop artist, but also
12:23a conceptual artist. And, like, it really leveled up just her artistry and her storytelling.
12:28It was a concept album. And so I think that is when Coachella took this really significant
12:35turn into the pop headliners that we see dominating the festival today. Like, 20 years ago, you
12:42would have not had Carol G, Sabrina Carpenter, and Justin Bieber. Back in the day, you didn't
12:46have Britney Spears, The Backstreet Boys, and NSYNC. Like, it just wouldn't have happened.
12:49Yeah.
12:49So I think Beyonce was a real, like, tone shifter in how the headliners are booked.
12:53Yeah. And Coachella, historically, like, it started off more rock, right?
12:58100%. It was alternative rock. I mean, the year, the first year was Rage Against the
13:02Machine, Tool, and Back. So it was alternative and indie rock.
13:05Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Okay, so you also cover dance music at Billboard. That is
13:10actually probably your primary beat, but you do all sorts of things. So whenever I think
13:16of Coachella, another iconic performance I think of in the dance realm would be Daft Punk.
13:20Yeah. I mean, can you talk to me about that? I imagine you weren't there for that one.
13:25I can talk to you about my sadness for not being there, but just feeling like I narrowly
13:30missed something that's extremely important.
13:33It's so important.
13:33And every person, I feel like so many people that work in dance music, especially in Southern
13:37California, were there and got kind of, like, baptized into the genre in that moment.
13:44I was not there. But it happened in the Sahara tent, which was, of course, at the time, much
13:49smaller. Like, now it's this kind of, like, gargantuan transformer machine. Back in the
13:56day, it was just a regular, it was a tent. But they had their pyramid set up. It was a
14:01big deal for Coachella to book Daft Punk. And by all accounts, it's, like, the greatest
14:08thing that's ever happened to anyone ever.
14:09The pyramid structure that they built is, like, such an iconic piece of, like, live
14:13music history.
14:14Yeah.
14:15Really pushed the boundaries on what you could do as a setup. And I feel like you can very
14:19clearly see now all of the DJs, the dance artists, moving forward, taking inspiration
14:25and paying homage to what Daft Punk did at that time.
14:28Yes.
14:29It really pushed the boundaries.
14:30It really set the precedent for production, for stage production in electronic music, which
14:37you just subsequently saw over the years get bigger and bigger. It's, like, I think by
14:402011 or 12, Skrillex had a spaceship. It was, like, it really all started with that pyramid.
14:46Yeah.
14:46Yeah. No, it's really crazy how far we've come. I actually did a story on the Daft Punk
14:51show when I first became a music journalist. And I was talking to all these people who worked
14:55in live music production, talked to some people who designed the pyramid at the time, talking
15:00to them about how, like, the bar just got raised. And it's only raised higher and higher.
15:04And that's also one reason why you could see ticket prices rising. There's a billion reasons
15:08why ticket prices are really insane at this point. But the production value that people
15:12are putting into shows now is way beyond what it used to be pre Daft Punk, pre some of these
15:18big iconic moments of the 2000s.
15:20That's a really good point. And we pay for that as fans.
15:23Yeah.
15:23But we love to see it.
15:24But we love to see it. And also, you can't have a stadium show now where you just show up
15:28and you're like, we got one truck, we got a drummer and a guitarist. So, you know, I
15:32interviewed Arthur Fogel from the chairman of touring at Live Nation last year. And he's
15:39like, you know, it can work. You can put a guy on a stage with a guitar and some lights
15:43and that can work. But I like the spectacle, you know, and like, I think people really gravitate
15:48to the Beyonce's of the world and the Oasis's and just the fireworks and the Lady Gaga's and
15:52the stuff and the thing and costumes. And that's what we've come to expect.
15:55Yeah. And so when did you start going to Coachella? Because I feel like you've been
15:59every year. I don't know if you've always been covering it, but you've you're a loyal
16:03I am. I am a loyal attendee. I've missed a few years in my tenure, but I first went in
16:092008 because Prince was headlining. I had just moved to L.A. I had no idea what Coachella
16:16was. Like, I wasn't going for Coachella. I was going to see Prince. Yes. And then I got
16:22out there and I was like, this is the whole world. I had been to Bonnaroo.
16:25And I had grown up going to the Summerfest in Milwaukee and just like I had, of course,
16:28a sense of music festivals, but I had never been in the desert. I had never experienced
16:33desert heat. And so that was just a whole different experience. And so that was year
16:40one. Prince. I mean, that's one of the all time performances at Coachella. He did it in
16:46such a Prince way to where they'd asked him. He said no. And then I think, yeah, like two
16:52weeks before the festival, Paul Tillet did an interview somewhere. We said he got a call
16:56from Prince saying, can I split the merch profits with you? And Paul Tillet was like,
17:04are you playing Coachella? And he's like, oh, yeah, no, I'm going to be there. Like, that's
17:09kind of how it came to be.
17:11Can you imagine getting that call and you're like, OK, let's rework the entire set times,
17:16everything. And that's what you do when Prince wants to come play your show. And it was such
17:20a party. It was such a party. He played a lot of covers. That's incredible. He did Little Red
17:25Corvette. And I was like, well, I can die happy. And it's like, I'm good. And then he did Purple
17:29Rain. And it was just like it went to this place of like pure. I mean, really, like as blissful
17:35as
17:35you can feel as at a show where, you know, we all we have all had that experience. That's what
17:39it was.
17:40That's incredible. So I feel like Coachella is not just known for being a music festival at this
17:45point. It's also so much more than that. Like if you go outside of the festival grounds, Revolve
17:50Fest is something that's been growing over year over year. There's so many different like kind of
17:55satellite events that people can go to after parties, all that stuff. I mean, it feels like
18:00brands and sponsorships and these outside events are such a core part of the Coachella
18:04experience at this point. Do you ever feel like this kind of just overshadows the point,
18:09like the music itself? I think it can overshadow it if you don't go to Coachella. Like, I think
18:17that it has become this kind of cliche about the festival of like, oh, it's all parties and
18:23influencers and this, that, the other thing. It is. That is a huge part of the festival during
18:29weekend one, because every brand wants to kind of draft on the cultural power and cachet of that
18:37festival. It's a great thing to be affiliated with. People want to come. Cool, stylish people
18:41come. They look great. People put a lot of effort into their outfits and their looks.
18:47But if you are not going, and some people don't go to the festival and they're just there for the
18:51fashion and the party scene, that's fine. But like, it's really to me ultimately about the music or it
18:58is what you make it. Yeah. Did they answer your question? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think
19:03that like, it's funny. I've actually been to Coachella before without going to Coachella. Like,
19:08I went to just parties. I tried doing that once. Yeah. It was very strange. What was strange about
19:12it? I mean, it was just strange to like, I would do these day parties and then everyone else would
19:16go
19:16to the festival. And then I just like went back to the place where I was staying. I was like
19:21staying
19:21on the floor somewhere. And I was like, you know what? I mean, I love music. So for me, I
19:25was like,
19:26this is silly that I'm not going into Coachella, but the ticket prices are really high. Yeah. I mean,
19:31it was funny reading in your book, you were talking about how ticket prices first year were $50.
19:36Yeah. Or it was like 50 per day. It was two days. And then, and they, they lost a lot
19:40of money
19:41and they said, oh, we should have charged 55. Well now it's a little bit more than that. It's a,
19:47it's a little bit more. One of the biggest stories that one of our coworkers at Billboard did last year
19:52was revealing that 60% of GA Coachella goers actually use a payment plan to pay for their
19:58ticket. And I think that's so interesting. Like I think it could say something about the economy.
20:03It could say something about the clientele of a music festival. I'm curious what your take is on
20:07it being closer to live music than I am. Yeah. The great Dave Brooks reported that story and it
20:12really got a lot of pickup. Like I remember seeing a story in the cut after that being like, no
20:17one can
20:17afford a Coachella anymore. And it was really like turned into this, this thing of like, you know,
20:22what does it mean about the youth and the economy? And people were really like hand wringing about it.
20:27Yeah. I think that it's a really smart way for people that don't necessarily have $600 to spend
20:33in a given moment to make payments for six months and, uh, make that financial blow like less
20:42impactful. It costs $41 to do the payment plan. And so it's not like they're charging like crazy
20:48interest on it. And it's not like Klarna or something where you can pay over time, but you
20:53know, then the, the interest is what gets you. Yeah. It's actually a pretty good deal. And I think,
21:00especially if you're a young person and you don't like make a lot of money, like, I don't know why
21:04you wouldn't do the payment plan. Like it's just, it's a, it's a nice option to get people in the
21:10door
21:11that don't have $600 to spend up front. Yeah. And I do feel like in general, to me,
21:16music festivals are such a good bang for your buck. Like I know I was just talking about high
21:20ticket prices, but like, yes, Coachella is expensive, but you're also seeing just about
21:24like every star you might have on your list that you want to see in the next couple of years,
21:28which is why they're expensive to put together. Like it's like, there's a reason that ticket costs
21:31$600 for GA, but I think you're absolutely right. It's like going to a great buffet. It's like,
21:37I could eat this and that and that and that and that and the other thing. And like,
21:40I will leave full and I will have had some new foods that I didn't know before to extend that
21:45analogy too far. But yeah, no, I do think that it's a really good option, but it does feel to
21:51me,
21:51I don't know if this is actually accurate. So stop me if I'm wrong, but I kind of feel like
21:55post
21:56pandemic music festivals aren't quite as hot as they used to be in general. I'm not talking about
22:01Coachella specifically. I don't know, maybe I'm just old and I've like aged out of like wanting to go to
22:05all of them. But in the 2010s, I feel like there was a festival for every niche in every area
22:10of the
22:10country. And then post pandemic, I think we saw fewer smaller festivals come back in more renewed
22:18interest in going to stadium tours, like Taylor Swift's Heirs tour is kind of a perfect example.
22:23Tell me, do you think that festivals have become less popular?
22:26I think that it has become a lot harder for independent festivals to exist.
22:30Okay, why?
22:31Because there's a lot of competition for talent. It's a lot of money to book artists.
22:38Radius clauses are a thing. Festivals are difficult because the margins are really thin.
22:43It's very hard to make a profit with a festival. And so with Live Nation and AEG putting on these
22:50big
22:50events, a lot of independent promoters have been kind of, and I'm not blaming just them, but you know,
22:55it's obviously a lot of things post pandemic, especially, but it's really hard to throw an independent
22:59festival. A lot of the small ones have gone away. Some still exist. But in terms of festivals being
23:05less popular or less cool, I mean, Taylor Swift is a great example because she doesn't play festivals.
23:12You can only see Taylor Swift at one of her headlining shows. Same with Oasis. Any number
23:18of festivals. I'm sure Coachella, Glastonbury, whomever, Primavera would have loved to have Oasis on
23:23the bill. They didn't do it. They didn't, I mean, they didn't want to, clearly. They could have had the
23:28pick. And so an artist like that, you have to go see them as a standalone show. So it's going
23:35to
23:35automatically create like a taste for that and a phenomenon around it because these are huge bands.
23:39Do a lot of artists turn down Coachella? Because I mean, I remember we've had some conversations in
23:44our newsroom over the past few years about how an artist can really make a lot more money if they're
23:48doing a stadium tour themselves. They're the main event. We were just talking about Taylor Swift and
23:53Oasis being two examples of folks that really prefer the stadium tour format. Do a lot of
24:00artists end up turning down Coachella in favor of doing their own tours instead?
24:04That's a really good question that I have no idea the answer to. You know, I can think of like,
24:11I think famously the talking heads have turned down Coachella because they don't want to do a
24:15reunion. But David Byrne plays Coachella as a solo act. He's playing this year. In terms of like
24:20these super modern or like band like Oasis, really relevant artists turning it down. I don't know.
24:29I really don't know.
24:30I guess we have so little insight into how many people they've reached out to. I'm sure they've
24:34reached out to Taylor Swift at some point. You know, it's like you'd have to think, of course,
24:38they'll try that the invite has been extended. Yes, the invite has been extended. It's just whether
24:42or not they want to pick up the phone and do it. Exactly. But I think one of the interesting
24:49parts of signing on to do a festival like Coachella is considering the radius clause.
24:55And this is a term that a lot of people who are listening might not know already. So can you
24:59explain what a radius clause is? Yeah, a radius clause is basically a clause in a contract that an
25:04artist signs when they, you know, play, they sign up to play any given festival or event that they're
25:08not going to play in, let's say, a 200 mile radius around that event for three months before,
25:14three months after or whatever the time span is. I think Coachella is three and three.
25:17Yeah, they vary. And Coachella's is, I think, considered particularly strict. But they have
25:23to protect that event. It costs a lot of money to put that show on. So if you have a
25:27headliner
25:28that's playing a show nearby, you know, two months before Coachella, like that's going to devalue
25:33your event that you're investing a lot of money to put on. Yeah, I mean, that totally makes sense.
25:38But three months before and three months after is literally takes you out for half a year.
25:41Yeah. And so I think like this is, as far as I have heard, a bigger issue for younger artists.
25:51Because if you're an artist that really your bread and butter is touring, that's how you're making
25:56money. And you can't play, you know, the Western United States for one half of the year, like,
26:02is it worth it to play Coachella to you if you are not able to make the money that you
26:07would if you
26:08didn't? So I think it's really like an equation that a lot of like emerging acts have to figure
26:12out. Because, of course, you can have a breakout moment at Coachella. It's a big platform. But it can
26:17be, I think, a little bit of a roll of the dice. That makes sense, especially because like these
26:21younger acts are being put in the early part of the day when realistically. Exactly. 50 people might
26:27show up. Yeah, exactly. Like you could get a crowd and you could get a viral moment. But if it's
26:33106
26:34degrees or, you know, what have you, like it is cool to have your name on the Coachella lineup. But
26:43it
26:43doesn't automatically mean that you're going to break through on that performance. Yeah. And I mean,
26:48just given the radius clause for Coachella is one of the most important markets for artists,
26:52a lot of their home markets. So many artists live in the LA area. Yeah. So I when I think
26:57about their
26:57radius clause, which involves most of Southern California, it just it takes out both San Diego
27:02and your hometown shows for that six months. I can understand why that would be a little bit too
27:07far for someone. Yeah. But yeah, it's interesting how festivals have this. A lot of fans don't really
27:14know that it exists. But it does vary. It does vary. It really does. And like depending on the size
27:19of
27:20the band, like I'm thinking, for example, when LCD sound system reunited at Coachella, I think it was
27:242017. I would need to fact check that. But that was the launch of their comeback tour. And that tour
27:31was done entirely through AEG. So AEG is like, you know, we can put you at Coachella, you come back
27:37at
27:37Coachella. And then you can do this whole tour through our network of venues across the country
27:44and beyond. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, okay, so I'm glad you touched on a reunion because I feel
27:49like reunions are like Coachella's thing. Yeah, like they always love a good reunion. What are some of
27:54the iconic reunions in your mind from your years at Coachella? One that I was not there for, but I
28:01know
28:01it was very important was the Pixies. And that was in the early days. I mean, I think maybe it
28:06was
28:06year one. Again, I would need to look at the book that I wrote to find out. But, you know,
28:12I think it
28:13also just like created that framework of like, wow, this festival has the power to bring bands back
28:18that we thought we'd never see play together again. Yeah. For me personally, that was outcast in,
28:24I think 2013, 14. Those were interesting shows. Because you could kind of tell that Andre 3000
28:33didn't necessarily want to be there during Weekend One. Yeah. And there's this like great story that
28:38also involves Prince where Andre said that he got a call from Prince after that Weekend One
28:42performance. And he was like, you have to just remind him you're a superstar. Like you have to just
28:45go out there and show him. And so we kind of gave him this pep talk that sent them back
28:50out in a
28:50more powerful way for Weekend Two. Wow. But yeah, I mean, we talked about LCD, Guns and Roses, of
28:56course. Was no doubt a reunion. I know that was like this. I don't know if it would be classified
29:02as a true. They had played together not too long ago. But I think on that level, you could probably
29:09call that a reunion and a really sweet one because they're a Southern California band. So it really just
29:14felt like this great like hometown in a way reunion show. Yeah. Well, okay. So what
29:20of the other things I think is so interesting about music festivals, again, something that I
29:25don't know if fans really think about, but everyone in the music industry thinks about
29:28is that poster. It's a big deal. The lineup is always the order of the poster is always a very
29:36big deal for artists. Font size. Yes. Font size, line, all that stuff. So is that something that like
29:44is negotiated by an artist's agent? And what are some other like things that maybe an agent could
29:50negotiate on your behalf when you're trying to play Coachella? Yeah, it's a great question that I don't
29:55actually have a lot of insight on. I feel like there's kind of like a black box of Coachella
29:58information that I have not cracked yet. But yeah, I'm certain that's negotiated, obviously the set
30:04times. Um, and I think more and more if your artist is going to be on the live stream in
30:11the early days,
30:13artists didn't, didn't want to do that necessarily. Really? Um, yeah, they thought, I think, I think
30:18the qualm was that they weren't getting paid more to be on the live stream. Okay. And so they were
30:24kind of iffy about it. And now it's a huge asset. Like when an artist gets put on the live
30:29stream,
30:30they're not like we said, just playing for the crowd there, but they're playing for our people
30:34in dozens of countries around the world. So it's this huge spotlight. Um, so I would imagine those
30:39are part of the negotiations. That is so interesting. Oh my gosh. Okay. So one of my personal favorite
30:44Coachella moments, this is very controversial is Frank Ocean weekend one a couple of years ago.
30:50Were you there? I was there and I did hear that you liked the show. Oh wait, that's the room.
30:54I came back. I came back to the billboard had like a house. We always rent a house. I went
30:59that
30:59night, saw Frank Ocean, came back. I was like, guys, that was amazing. And everyone was like,
31:06crickets. Well, it was interesting. Okay. I, I thought it was like mind-blowingly smart,
31:12but apparently like no one else thought this. Um, apparently he did. Why did you think that?
31:17Okay. So I thought that it was really interesting that they basically blocked off most of the stage
31:21and made it into a screen. Yeah. And so they followed him around. There was a cutout in the stage.
31:26Hopefully we can like overlay a picture so you guys can like really see what it looked like.
31:29It was basically an entire screen with a cutout and inside the cutout was Frank in like essentially
31:34a home studio set up with a few other musicians. And it was almost like you got a peek into
31:39his
31:40studio where he was playing through his music. Yeah. And then on the screen, they had like a
31:45cameraman who was following Frank around and displaying that on the screen. And I thought it
31:51was just really artfully done. And I thought it was, I thought it was really deep. I thought that it
31:55was
31:55a commentary on the fact that like, when you go see a live show, we're not, we're mostly looking
32:00at the screen anyway. So why not make the whole live event the screen? Yes. I don't know if he
32:06thought that deep into it, but I thought that deep into it. So you're looking at it as like conceptual,
32:11contemporary art, like performance art. Yes. Yeah. That might be true. That might be giving
32:16it more credit, but that also might be true. And it's like, I think generous of you to frame
32:20it that way. You know what? Frank Ocean called me. I want to talk about this. I want to know
32:24what your plan was. That was an absolutely fascinating event, right? Because it was kind
32:31of like outcast where it's like that didn't go the way that maybe people wanted it to, but it's
32:37interesting. Yeah. So Frank was a holdover from the pandemic era Coachella lineups that got canceled.
32:43Yeah. And so it was a really big deal for him to be playing. And there was a ton of
32:46hype around this
32:47headlining performance. I don't think he'd headline in Southern California for quite some time.
32:51And so it was a big deal for him to be there. And then I remember hearing around the festival
32:56grounds that day, like, I heard he's not going to play. Like there were just these rumors swirling,
33:01which is kind of like, didn't he like break his ankle or something? I should have looked this up
33:04beforehand, but like, there's something that went wrong. Yes. He was thinking about pulling out.
33:08He was so, you know, but these are all rumors. And so we go on with the day and then
33:13it's showtime.
33:14And I think it started like an hour late, 45 minutes late. And so there's already the kind
33:19of this like feel in the crowd of like, is this going to like, what's going on? And then when
33:25he
33:25came out, as you said, in this kind of like tiny little box, and you didn't even really see him
33:29for
33:30the first stretch of the show. Yeah. It felt like you were experiencing it as like high art. I think
33:37some people were experiencing as like, this feels a little messy. Yeah. And yeah, I think that when the
33:46show ended, you know, the show itself, we could, we could debate that. I saw some people having a
33:54really great time, but then it felt really anticlimactic when he's like, okay, well, we've
33:59hit curfew and we have to end now. Yes. And then leaving the field, we bumped into this structure where
34:06it was like, what, what is this thing in the middle of the field? And you realize it's an ice
34:10skating rink.
34:11Oh, yes. Well, why is this here? And it was really unlikely. And then you come to find out
34:16that he had all these ice skaters on hand that were going to skate out there. And they were kind
34:21of pulled at the last minute. So it's just like all of the information circulating about the show
34:26was kind of chaotic. It was. And I will say, I will say, like, I have never walked out of
34:33Coachella on
34:34a Sunday night. It was the last show of the weekend. Yeah. I have never walked out where everyone
34:37walked out in relative silence. Yes. It was a very strange and interesting mood.
34:45I felt the same way. I was walking out with my friend and I was silent because I thought it
34:49was
34:49amazing. I'm just like a big Frank Ocean fan, I guess. Like, I just, I never thought I was going
34:56to get to see him. He's so like, he does not say yes to a lot of stuff. Right. Very
35:01private person.
35:02So I thought it was just like such a exciting moment to get to see him. I mean, I don't
35:08think
35:08he's played a show since. I mean, I'll fact check myself on that. But like, I really don't think he's
35:12played a show since. And I was walking out of there and I was silent because I was like,
35:15that was fascinating. Well, it is. It was. I think you're absolutely right. Like, it was fascinating.
35:21Yeah. But I would like, I turned to my friend and I was like, wasn't that crazy? And she was
35:25like,
35:25that was terrible. I mean, I know I totally misread this show, like laying on the ground
35:32with my jacket over my face. End of the weekend. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was, I loved it. But
35:39yeah,
35:40when I figured out about the ice skaters though, that did make me think twice about my
35:44very, very generous assumptions about the show. Yeah. I, I thought that this must have been this
35:51beautiful plan. It turned out that this was not the original plan. I don't know,
35:56maybe part of the stage was still supposed to look like that and all that. But
35:59him being just inside the stage in that little studio setup was not really the original plan.
36:05There's all these ice skaters that were supposed to come out, which I don't know how that plays into
36:08what I saw. But anyways, Frank Ocean, I've, I'm riding for you always. Respect, of course, always.
36:16Yes. But yeah, he did not, as we know, come back for weekend too. Yeah. I mean,
36:20I think like that, that in and of itself is like very historic. I don't think that's
36:24ever happened. Yeah. I mean, that was a huge deal, but I mean, that was something. Did you
36:28end up going back to cover that second weekend? Cause I was, I sure did. They called it the dance
36:34music Superbowl because the whole buzz all week was like, who's who are they replacing as a headliner?
36:40Yeah. Coachella had never had to replace a headliner the weekend, you know, the week between the two.
36:45And so, um, I forget the names that were being thrown around. I think Blink 182 was raised because
36:52they were a last minute ad weekend one. They raised them to the main stage with good reason. That show
36:56was awesome. Um, but there was kind of just this rumble of like something else is going to happen.
37:02And it ended up, of course, being Skrillex, Fred again, and Fortet who had this insane
37:08show that I was very lucky to be at, um, in February, the February prior at Madison Square
37:12Garden. And it was probably like one of the most hyped experiences of my life. Like that show is
37:18absolutely magical. Um, and so I wasn't necessarily expecting it to be them, but when I found out it was,
37:25it was thrilling. Cause obviously I'm like the dance music gal. Um, and just everyone in dance music
37:31was so excited to see those guys on that stage. The chef's kiss of it all is that they played
37:36on
37:37the skating rink. Wait, really? Yes. Oh, I didn't know. Yeah. They played in center of the field
37:42in the round. So like the thing ultimately was utilized, which I think is beautiful. I'm sure
37:47someone backstage was like, thank God. Whoever built it. Can you even imagine like working at
37:53Golden Voice that week and working at Coachella that week, trying to replace a headliner? I mean,
37:58that must've been the most stressful week. I'm sure it was a wild ride, but I think they really,
38:03like they came through and that was, it was a, it was a great show. It was a very exciting
38:08show.
38:09We've talked already about how festivals have really tight margins and as well as being our
38:14dance music reporter festival girl, you're also reporting on sustainability, which I think all
38:20these things actually do play in together very nicely. I do too. I actually see a lot of overlap.
38:25Yeah. And so I'm wondering for music festivals, as climate change continues to take effect and
38:31weather becomes more unpredictable, how do you see that impacting music festivals moving forward?
38:35It's a really good question. I mean, I think like festivals are continuing to see wild weather
38:41and like suffering the consequences of that. I mean, the first one that comes to mind is Burning Man,
38:46who has had rain, like strange rain the last two years. I've heard of festivals moving to different
38:56parts of the year because it is now too hot to hold them in the summer. Look at what's happened
39:02to
39:02Bonnaroo. And you know, it's like, these are bad storms and it's hard to say like, this is explicitly
39:07climate change related, but they've had like big summer storms for the past, I think two years,
39:13where like it's really deeply affected that festival. And so more and more festivals are
39:19really bumping up against the weather. And I think insurance is becoming, you know, more difficult
39:25as such because there are these kind of act of God things that happen. Yeah. Yeah. And that's another
39:30phrase, a little piece of jargon in contracts about festivals is force majeure. Force majeure. Yeah.
39:36So can you explain what that means? Force majeure, I think really came into my consciousness during the
39:41pandemic, which force majeure, and maybe you can help me with this is like, it's basically an act
39:47of God. It is act of God. Yeah. Like it's just something that's so absolutely uncontrollable and
39:53you couldn't have seen coming. And that is kind of like a contract clause, right? Like that's what they
39:58write into the contract of like, maybe God will strike us down in some strange way that we can't
40:02foresee now. And we have to write this in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. Well, yeah, it just sounds like
40:07whether or not you can attribute it directly to climate change, there is more weather volatility.
40:11Yes. Across the country. But that's really interesting that there's been some events that
40:16have had to move to different parts of the year due to the extreme heat of the summer. Like what
40:21areas of
40:21the country? Yeah. Those events wouldn't necessarily go on record to speak about it, but just think of
40:26places that are very hot in Arizona, Texas. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. That's tough. I just,
40:33I feel like there are so many tiny details that go into planning a festival or an outdoor event of
40:39any
40:39kind, like an amphitheater event. Yeah. And it just feels like with tight margins, I can understand
40:45why there has been an issue with independent festivals not being able to last. Totally. Like
40:50if you have, if you're an independent festival and you get wiped out one year because of weather,
40:54it's very difficult to rebound from that, which I think is really like, it's, it's really unfortunate
41:00because these small independent festivals really have a lot of soul, a lot of character and the
41:06people putting them on of course have like a ton of heart and you have to work really hard to
41:10pull
41:10off an event like that. Yeah. Have there been any major Coachella weather disasters? It's a good
41:15question. Um, not that I recall. I think that in 2014 during weekend two, it got very, very windy.
41:24I remember leaving the Red Hat Chili Peppers set being like, we like can't really operate in this
41:29wind. I don't think the festival shut down. Okay. Um, I don't recall the festival ever stopping
41:35because of the weather. Got it. Okay. Okay. Well, I'm nearing the end of my question. So I wanted to
41:41play a couple of games with you if you're game. I'm, I'm game for your games. Game for the games.
41:45Okay.
41:45Okay. I want to start off by doing a Coachella Mount Rushmore. Who would you put
41:51on your Mount Rushmore for Coachella? It's a really good question. We're going to kind of
41:55have to stack them because some of these acts have more than one person in it. Okay. Um,
42:01so I would say I think Rage Against the Machine really just symbolizes the early ethos of Coachella,
42:10what it was, where it was coming from. Um, so definitely rage, uh, Daft Punk, of course. Yeah. Even
42:16if you're not a dance music fan, I think you know that that set was like very important to the
42:20trajectory of Coachella and to dance music itself. Um, got to put Beyonce on there. Historic,
42:27wonderful, all time, great show. And then the fourth on our Mount Rushmore,
42:34I think we could give it to the Pixies because they were really one of the early, like we said,
42:42reunion shows that solidified or like showed people like Coachella is a place where really
42:46big bands get back together and it's a huge deal. Okay. That's great. That's great. Okay. So the next
42:51game we're calling No Skips. This is our Coachella edition of it. It's basically a rapid fire
42:57question game where I ask you some stuff about going to Coachella. Hopefully this will help some
43:02people who are heading out to the festival in a couple of days. I hope we don't say anything weird.
43:07Okay. Here we go. Okay. We'll start off with, um, what's an item you can't go to Coachella without?
43:13Um, a portable phone charger, which I actually never bring, but my friend always does. So good
43:19friend. Yeah. Um, what's a place on the grounds to escape festival chaos? Uh, if you have a VIP pass,
43:26the Rose Garden. Um, and if you don't, you can catch some shade and like, usually they have water
43:32guns at the do lab stage and you can cool off during the day. What is an apparel item that
43:36is totally
43:36essential? Just wear good shoes. When I see people in heels or platforms, like platforms,
43:42even you can work with. But when I see people in heels at Coachella, I, I wonder, I wonder many
43:48things. Yeah. What's an act that everyone should see this year? Oh man. Um, David Byrne is playing
43:56and I've seen him on this tour. Who is this guy? It's an incredible show. Um, he's a legend who
44:04is like,
44:05we're very lucky that he's still touring. So I would say absolutely him. Great. What's a piece
44:09of Coachella advice that served you well? Remember to eat. What's a trick to get out of the festival
44:16at the end of the night? I have two answers. One is okay. You can have a VIP parking pass
44:20and leave a little early and skirt out that way. However, that can still be difficult. I'd say the
44:26real pro tip is get back to your car, take a little nap and then wait for everybody to leave.
44:30When you wake up, the lot should be clear. You're a genius for that. Actually. I, I wish I had
44:36you
44:36that. Okay. The night after Frank Ocean, cause I stayed to the very end. Yes. Horrible. I remember
44:41that. I got in an unmarked car. Yeah. I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend it. Don't do this guys. But
44:47like there, there's this like whole thing that happens out when people are getting picked up from
44:51Ubers where there'll be people who are not actual Ubers that will come up and be like, pay me a
44:56hundred
44:56dollars and I'll get you out of here right now. Yeah. And the Uber, like your app never works.
45:00Anyways, this is killing the rapid fire, but don't do that. Don't do that. I was leaving once and
45:05people were so desperate that they were like, Hey, can we give you $200 to bring us to our Airbnb?
45:09Yeah. And I made $200. Wait, you did it. Oh my gosh. Yeah. No, honestly, it's, it's survival mode
45:14at that point. 1000%. Okay. What's a set you regret missing? Daft Punk. Yeah. What's the best time of the
45:22day
45:22to be at the festival? It's got to be sunset because it's just like the site is so beautiful.
45:27The mountains are beautiful. They usually program it. So the right bands are playing at the right
45:32moment. It's just like a very beautiful atmosphere. What's a favorite stage, a favorite stage. Um,
45:40low key Mojave and Gobi really give a lot. Like I saw craft work in Mojave last year or was
45:48it Gobi?
45:48Like they're not the flashiest stages, but there's like very high caliber programming in both of those
45:54tents. What's an underrated stage? I guess you just answered that actually. I think we could,
45:59I don't know if it's underrated because people love it, but, um, every year that they have Dispacio,
46:06which is kind of the, the nightclub, uh, that's, it's not Yuma. It's the nightclub from too many
46:11DJs and, uh, James Murphy and don't sleep on Dispacio if it's there. Okay. What's something
46:19that looks cool, but it's actually a terrible idea to do at Coachella? Um, I don't understand
46:24how people go to Coachella with like 13 friends. Like it's too many people. How do you decide where
46:29you're going to go? Or like, who's going to go to the bed? Like it would drive me crazy. I
46:33like to
46:33hang out with one or two people maximum. That is fair. Okay. In a final game, we play this with
46:38everyone who comes on, on the record. It's called, what would you cue? So basically I'm just going to
46:43ask you to name one song for these few prompts. Okay. Okay. All right. So first one, what would you
46:49cue to take you back to your childhood? Uh, thinking of you by Hanson. It was the fourth
46:55single on their incredible debut album. I loved that song as a kid. I loved it. Amazing. What would
47:01you cue to represent your favorite era of music? Uh, in light by Led Zeppelin. What would you cue to
47:08remind you of your favorite concert? This is so hard. We were talking about this so hard.
47:14I'm sorry. Um, it's okay. I don't like there, there are several answers I could give maybe
47:19like one big holiday by my morning jacket. What would you cue to represent your best Coachella memory?
47:27I think it's, there's so many. Um, like, can I give two? Yeah, sure. Freak go home by dark side.
47:35Hmm. And, um, safe and sound by justice. Amazing. Katie Bain, thank you so much for
47:42coming to on the record and everyone buy her book. Yeah. All about Coachella. Thanks so much
47:47for coming. Thank you for having me. Really appreciate it. All right. Thank you so much
47:50to Katie Bain for joining me to talk about all things Coachella and be sure to pick up her book,
47:54desert dreams, the music style and allure of Coachella. It is in stores now. And thanks for listening to this
48:00week's episode of on the record. If you liked today's show, give us a follow on Instagram at
48:04billboard on the record, where you can see new clips of this show every single week. We'd also
48:09appreciate it if you rated us on your favorite podcast platform. All of these things help on
48:13the record grow bigger and better than ever. Again, I'm your host, Kristen Robinson and tune in next
48:19week for another peek behind the curtain of the music business. I'll see you then.
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