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A look back to the 1980's, Liverpool when the city became the epicentre of a drugs boom that was to change Britain forever.
The story of how heroin first arrived in Liverpool, creating a new epidemic of drug use while the city was also plunged into mass unemployment.
The story of how heroin first arrived in Liverpool, creating a new epidemic of drug use while the city was also plunged into mass unemployment.
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00:08Liverpool, a world city at the heart of the new county of Merseyside.
00:13It's a city full of contrast, a kaleidoscope of contradiction.
00:20Contradiction. Contradiction. Contradiction.
00:24We don't class ourselves as being English.
00:29We're the People's Republic of Liverpool.
00:33I guess the thing about the Republic of Liverpool is, you know, it's a community of immigrants, right?
00:40So there's always been a bit of a siege mentality.
00:45We have a degree of accepted lawlessness here.
00:49It's like cowboys and Indians. They don't follow the rules because they're outlaws.
00:54We have an ingenuity that all other people don't have.
00:57So Liverpool was the epicenter of drugs.
01:03There's a story to tell about this city, which is unique.
01:07And I think drugs, crime, is a part of that.
01:19Some people say a man is made out of mud.
01:23A poor man's made out of muscle and blood.
01:27Muscle and blood and skin and bones.
01:30A mind that's weak and a back that's strong.
01:33You load sixteen tons.
01:35What do you get?
01:37Another day older and deeper in debt.
01:40St. Peter, don't you call me, cause I can't go.
01:43I owe my soul to the company store.
02:11I owe my soul to the company store.
02:17We are live.
02:45Under no circumstances are the drugs ever to be out of sight.
02:49We can't afford another fuck-up.
02:53The informant has arrived.
02:55He's being miscorted up to the room.
02:57Over.
03:10No money, no drugs, do you understand?
03:16This is not my first time.
03:17It's my first time with you, Haji.
03:20They don't pay.
03:21We can't arrest them.
03:22Okay.
03:39We have our target.
03:41Good luck, everyone.
04:00What is it about Liverpool that made it such a big player in the drug trade?
04:06Docs.
04:07The docs have always been a part of our lives.
04:10Yes.
04:12Yes.
04:13Yes.
04:14I used to come down here as a child, and to me, a child.
04:18It was like Wonderland.
04:22There were thousands of men loading lorries by hand.
04:27Sacks of this, sacks of that.
04:29It was glorious.
04:31You see the wealth.
04:32Everywhere you look, something was going on.
04:36But the contrast between the docks and our areas, which were totally depressed and slums,
04:46it was hard to take.
04:49Imagine goods coming in from across the world, and you are living in poverty, essentially.
04:56You've got a family to support.
04:59You're going to do anything to support them so you survive and that they survive.
05:04So if you had to take something, you took something.
05:08Everything got pilfered.
05:10Everything.
05:11People just accepted it for what it was, as far as their contingent picks at the job.
05:16Five-finger discount.
05:19And it wasn't looked down upon.
05:22You weren't a thief.
05:23And everyone knew someone who could get things from somewhere.
05:26You could get something from Jimmy here, or from John there, or Peter can get you that.
05:32And then you put drugs into the mix of that.
05:35It allowed the drug trade to grow very, very quickly.
05:41Customs investigators and police have no doubt that Liverpool has been one of the major,
05:45if not the major, point of entry for drugs being smuggled into this country.
05:52We're definitely the first.
05:55Definitely.
05:57Went to Nigeria.
06:00And during that time, I met up with somebody who had some weed he wanted to put on a ship.
06:06Wanted to know if I was the only body in Liverpool who would buy it.
06:09I did.
06:11So I contacted people in England who met the ship, bought it.
06:16And I thought to myself, well, why make money for other people when I could make it for myself?
06:25Remember how much you made in that first trade?
06:27We were selling at £300 a pound, so.
06:29And how many pounds did you smuggle?
06:31£300.
06:33£300?
06:33Yeah.
06:34At £300 a pound?
06:40So, I then started to send weed myself to Liverpool.
06:49We started out small.
06:52And we went big.
06:57Well, we progressed up to a ton.
07:00The easy part was getting it on.
07:03Compress it into a metal container.
07:06Welded shut.
07:09Use the crane.
07:11Put it on first.
07:12Before the general cargo went on and it would be right at the bottom and thousands of tons on top
07:18of it.
07:21The hard part was getting it off.
07:24Customs were very, very alert in Liverpool.
07:28Our firm had people who had relatives in senior positions and that was it.
07:35It was just a matter of choosing the right time for them to take it off.
07:41Then pass it on to our sales division and our sales division and our sales division did their work.
07:49And then when I came home, just counted the money.
07:52You like that bit?
07:54You like that bit?
07:57I enjoyed the fact that we were the sort of pioneers and a lot of people emulated us.
08:05And I say the police knew but couldn't do anything about it.
08:12You were aware at that point of who he was?
08:14Yes, I was well aware of who he was.
08:19He was a big player.
08:20He was a big influencer.
08:25He developed his roots into Africa and, yeah, he was doing it ahead of a lot of other people.
08:34But the customs and the police didn't work well together in those days.
08:39And they were at odds with each other and didn't share their intelligences.
08:44And so who's going to win from that?
08:47There's only one person going to win and that's the dealer.
08:51That's Michael.
09:03I was 15.
09:05There was a dance in the local Labour Club.
09:10We put our best clothes on and went there and we danced.
09:13And after a couple of times, we were confronted by a group who said they didn't want niggers
09:18come up there dancing with their women.
09:20There was a fight and a guy was stabbed.
09:24And five of us were arrested.
09:28I had my 16th birthday in Walton Prison.
09:31The judge gave us what they call a doc brief, which is a barrister who spoke for everyone
09:36on the day for a fixed fee.
09:39He said, you're all being very silly.
09:42It's quite obvious that all five of you couldn't have stabbed the guy.
09:48You go upstairs plead guilty.
09:52The most you're going to get is probation.
09:56So we all changed our plea to guilty.
09:58And two years later, I came out of Boston.
10:06It's hard when I think about it, it does make me angry.
10:09Our futures were taken from us at such an early age, criminalised at such an early age,
10:16which sort of meant you had very little future.
10:21Feeling guilty when I was 15 to something I hadn't done, that's my greatest regret.
10:27My greatest regret, because I'd started it all.
10:40Charlie one to control. Car park is clear. No movement. Over.
10:47Charlie three to control. Charlie three to control. Lobby is quiet. Nothing suspicious. Over.
11:01Who is this? How are they getting unnoticed?
11:04He must have snuck in by the fire escape set.
11:07Great.
11:09We have someone at the door. Everyone ready?
11:12On my mark, we go for the arrest.
11:22I represent men who wish to buy your product.
11:24You have 12 kilos, yes?
11:26Yes.
11:27We would very much like to buy all of it. But for now, a kilo.
11:32To verify the quality so a good price can be agreed.
11:35All units, stand by. Deal is imminent.
11:38Okay. But price is 11,000 for one kilo.
11:41This is a very good price. You do not understand.
11:44We wish to take a kilo now and we'll pay later for everything.
11:50What?
11:50We have a little cash flow problem.
11:53If you give us a kilo, we'll sell it and use the money to buy the rest.
11:58What do you think?
12:02No money, no drugs.
12:05Well, the cash, this whole thing falls apart.
12:13Look, I have many powerful people in Pakistan.
12:16That will do me and my family harm.
12:20So this, I cannot do.
12:40No deal. Repeat, no deal.
12:42Subject has left the room.
12:45Approximately 30 years old, 5 foot 10, dressed in a brown suit and blue shirt.
12:49Can we get a tail on him?
12:51Roger that. We have eyes on. He's leaving by the fire escape.
12:56They don't have the money.
13:24I grew up in a city where we got cannabis from all over the world.
13:30We got urban poison from South Africa.
13:33Yeah.
13:33We got Congolese laughing grass.
13:35Three types of Moroccan, four types of Lebanese, Egyptian, Afghani black.
13:42Pakistani black.
13:43Pakistani black.
13:45You know, Humboldt County from California.
13:50The best pot in the world coming through the docks at Liverpool. Unbelievable.
13:55And it was all about the Beatles and Lucy in the Sky with diamonds and smoking pot and LSD and
14:00Freelove.
14:01And I thought, that's the life for me.
14:03So that was it.
14:04Went off like a 10-pound rocket.
14:06Did all the things teenagers do.
14:07Grew the hair, wore the flares and took all the drugs that came my way.
14:12And that was all lovely.
14:13But then in the 80s, that's when a number of things conspired to bring brown smokable heroin to Liverpool.
14:24Statistics alone in Liverpool age tell a very acute story.
14:2747% of black workers unemployed, 43% of white workers.
14:34No opportunities at all.
14:36You know, no opportunities whatsoever.
14:38The area's all run down.
14:41Neighbourhoods like Boogle, Kirby, Toxteth, Croxteth, all these different places.
14:47Falling apart.
14:48There's no jobs.
14:48There's no opportunities.
14:50Young people weren't of any values of society.
14:52Or so they felt.
14:56And then, of course, we had the toxic riots in 81.
15:00A visitor from the USA came in the 80s and said, this is like Beirut.
15:03This is like a bombed out shell, a husk of a city.
15:09And a number of other things were going on that didn't help.
15:14Like Russia had invading Afghanistan in 1979.
15:22The freedom fighters there, the Mujahideen, had to raise money to buy guns to fight the Russians.
15:27The only commodity they had that they could sell on the world market was opium.
15:32Now, they'd been using, growing opium and using opium for centuries.
15:37But suddenly it was a cash crop.
15:39So they upped production of opium.
15:41And clandestine laboratories turned that into morphine-based brand, smokable heroin.
15:54Liverpool's built on immigration.
15:56So that in itself gives you familial ties across the world.
16:04So those links, when combined with the drug trade,
16:07whether it be cannabis or heroin, you had connections in these other places in the world
16:13where you could acquire those goods.
16:21Seven separate trips to Pakistan?
16:24Yeah.
16:26And I did go there because I like a samosa.
16:34What took you out there?
16:54My daughter says to me, Daddy, why is your hand so big?
16:57You've got hands like the honey monster.
17:02What did you tell her?
17:04What I don't tell her is because I used to inject snowballs into them.
17:07That's for fucking sure.
17:10Around 81, 82, I was involved with buying and selling cannabis and amphetamine.
17:21And the game changer was cheap, high-grade smoking heroin became available.
17:30It was from Pakistan.
17:33And I've got Pakistani family, so I immediately kind of seized the opportunity to capitalize on that.
17:48Back then, I sat in Islamabad in Pakistan talking to the commanders of the police over there
17:58who'd seized heroin and I was buying it from them and they were giving me samples to send over to
18:04the UK.
18:06If you went to source in Peshawar, you'd be buying a kilo over there for £2,500, 3K.
18:14Yeah, and that'd be 80, 90%.
18:16There was a German baby laxative called Maniton
18:22that was used as a cutting agent because that didn't affect the smokeability of the brown powder.
18:30Yeah.
18:31So you could turn one key into two.
18:33So for your initial investment of two and a half, you know, you could get maybe 80K back.
18:44Liverpool at that time, it became the perfect storm.
18:48You know, the shipyard's closing down.
18:50You've got all the unemployment.
18:53And then if someone gives you a £5 bag of heroin, it takes all that away and you forget all
18:59your problems.
19:02You know, it's little wonder that so many people here in Liverpool
19:10picked up.
19:19I can only describe heroin as like a silent bomb that landed in Liverpool.
19:24You know, no one heard it coming.
19:28It took away sons, daughters, mothers, fathers.
19:33It was just total destruction.
19:40You know, it's spread like cancer.
19:53Straightening up your foil.
19:55Putting a little bit of powder at the corner where you wanted it.
20:00Getting a little piece in your foil.
20:02Tilting it a little bit.
20:04Your flame underneath the powder.
20:07And then an ailment.
20:19Everything seems as slow as hard a bit.
20:24Feel comfortably numb.
20:27No more worries, no stress, nothing.
20:32Just comfort.
20:35What you've got to understand is, you know, I don't use this lightly.
20:41It was an epidemic that happened in this city.
20:46You know, this city was flooded with narcotics.
20:51Drug abuse is so rife on some housing estates.
20:54The area is known locally as Smack City.
20:58Growing number of addicts are under 15.
21:00Many hooked on heroin they bought for as little as five pounds a packet.
21:05It seemed like a whole generation of young people that just jumped into heroin use feet first.
21:11No matter where you went, there was groups of kids hanging on street corners waiting to score.
21:17A lot of the kids would say, oh, it's terrible around here.
21:20It's got, in the past two years, heroin's just taken over.
21:22And I'd say, well, how many people around here take heroin?
21:26Everyone.
21:28Wow, everyone's on heroin.
21:30And I'd say, how the hell did that happen?
21:36It was a job.
21:40You'd go out and then you'd be grafting.
21:42You'd be like either shoplifting, burglaring, robbing cars, whatever you could to phone your abby.
21:48Any ways and means to get what you needed, you know what I mean?
21:52I'd be knocking at my mum's for a fiver.
21:57So I haven't got it.
21:58It's a fiver.
21:59I haven't got it.
22:00Go away.
22:02It's a ziggy.
22:03I haven't got any.
22:05Have a biscuit then.
22:06As long as you had something.
22:08You know what I mean?
22:09I had to take something.
22:10I had to have something.
22:12There was just no escape.
22:18I got involved on every level with the heroin business,
22:24which led me in time to becoming very addicted to that.
22:30It stripped me.
22:34I lost my dignity.
22:36I lost my self-respect.
22:37I lost my self-worth.
22:40But I had to do it because I was ill.
22:44I had to use to live.
22:46And I lived to use.
22:59How is it we get a dealer who apparently can't even afford to buy one kilo of heroin?
23:09At least someone's enjoying themselves.
23:20What's going on down there?
23:22Are we compromised?
23:23Hello, darling.
23:25Do you have a room at the airport?
23:26No, put that down.
23:28Down.
23:30Sir, it would appear the entire Australian Rugby League team have a ride for the Co-close
23:34fans.
23:36Looks like they're quite drunk there.
23:45Phone.
23:46Everyone focus.
23:58Hello?
23:59Take down this number.
24:00They're trying to get old, yeah?
24:030151-496-7088.
24:06Call them.
24:09Who was that?
24:10Was it Michael?
24:12Whoever it was, sir, he doesn't sound happy.
24:32Police were pretty irrelevant in the early days because they didn't know what to do.
24:35They didn't know what they were chasing.
24:37They didn't know the shape of it, the colour of it, the size of it.
24:40The problem was I don't think the senior officers saw that heroin was their major problem.
24:48They were fixed on cannabis and large importations coming into the area.
24:57We'd be stopping individuals and you'd find a few wraps on them, so it'd be personal use,
25:03and they were getting taken in.
25:04But the likes of Michael and the others who were involved in the importation, they didn't pay attention
25:09to them.
25:10They didn't keep their eye on the ball.
25:14Also, at the same time, the riots had changed everything.
25:19The guys organising things on the streets, they knew that they had struck a lot of fear into the police.
25:28And so, after the riots, we were told not to go into the area.
25:35There was a map of Topstaff and there was a triangle.
25:38And it was in red lines, and you knew you could patrol up to that point, but you couldn't go
25:43across the road.
25:45So, there was a certain amount of frustration amongst myself and colleagues.
25:56They used to say, jokingly, that when you got posted to Topstaff,
26:02you had to get a bullseye put on your back.
26:05And four.
26:09One, two.
26:10One, two.
26:11I think you'll find an argument for saying that some of the organised crime
26:16that happened in Liverpool built up in Topstaff in kind of the quiet spell after the riots.
26:22Yeah.
26:22It wasn't policed rigorously.
26:25Certainly, people in Granby Street were able to operate as they wanted.
26:30We were behind the curve.
26:33I think the people that were making money from heroin had stepped up the game.
26:37And suddenly, these guys were doing seriously well.
26:41And flaunting it.
26:43And that kind of rankled with us.
26:45So, we kind of took that personal.
26:49Then the police had to react, as opposed to being proactive.
26:53We had to react to it.
26:54And I do think we were behind the curve.
26:59Then I remember the police picking me up one day, throwing me in the back of the car.
27:04Took me to Newsham Park.
27:06One of them got out of the car, opened the boot, got a towel out of the boot.
27:11Inside the towel was a gun.
27:13Come back in the car, shut up the car and put the gun in my mouth.
27:17Guys, I don't say this lightly, put the gun in my mouth.
27:19I was like, bang.
27:21Who's selling all the drugs?
27:23Sellers.
27:24That was one of those mixed up kids.
27:26You know, we had nothing.
27:29It was just a pawn on a chess board.
27:34You know, for someone to take money from.
27:38It's them who were out there, are using them that are down there.
27:44So they don't get their hands dirty.
27:47It's always been a shame.
27:53In the 80s, Michael, you were accused of being a prolific heroin smuggler.
28:01Well, it's nonsense because heroin didn't exist for us in those days.
28:06I was involved in cannabis.
28:08And that was it.
28:16This is the early 80s.
28:18This was the early 80s, yes.
28:19You were driving around in a white Rolls Royce, yes.
28:22Do you understand why people in the community think that you were smuggling heroin?
28:29I can understand a little bit, but I say those who know me, they know where I earn my money.
28:37If he wasn't dealing heroin, you want to know, how has that guy got a white Rolls Royce?
28:45Nobody drove Rolls Royces around Toxtapes.
28:49That's kind of a sign that he was saying, here I am, look at me, I'm loaded.
28:56What are you going to do about it?
29:00I know he had his own game plan.
29:05His game plan was to control the heroin trade.
29:14He knew how to control people.
29:17The young kids on the streets, he had them looking up at them.
29:21It was like, hell, our heroes just arrived.
29:25This is what I want to be.
29:28So if some of these kids became loyal to him, he would eventually move them up the ranks.
29:34So he kept a tagged cell of only those that he trusted.
29:43So he wasn't a fool.
29:45He was a very, very stupid man.
29:47I don't think anybody who ever treated him as a fool would, does the fool themselves.
29:54Checkmate.
29:57When you've got someone who's making themselves so high profile and they're rubbing it in your face, that's when you
30:04have to do something.
30:06But it may have been that at that stage, they were just trying to get him for anything.
30:12Whether the connection with him was strong or not, it was worth chancing their arm and going for it, seeing
30:18if they could get a conviction against what they regarded as this notorious figure.
30:22So in 1983, the police tried to prosecute Michael Showers for the second time in short succession.
30:31On this occasion, it was for possession of a firearm, cannabis and heroin.
30:39The case collapsed at court.
30:42And Michael Showers to this day maintains that the case was never legitimate against him and in effect he was
30:50fitted up.
30:57So why do you think the authorities would frame you?
31:01I was a very, very high profile because of the car and all the rest and I was getting too
31:06big politically.
31:09The thing is, you had to understand every fibre of this city was racist.
31:18That's you here.
31:20Yeah, I remember that March well.
31:22Fighting for equal rights.
31:26That's what I was hoping for, a generation of black kids that didn't have criminal records, that wouldn't be criminalised.
31:35And how did the establishment see you?
31:38They saw me as a threat of some kind.
31:41They despised me and anything they could do to get with me, they did.
31:50Unofficially, police describe Michael Showers as the godfather of Liverpool Eight.
31:54He has few words of comfort for the police.
32:06The Liverpool Black community was a very old one and a very well-established one.
32:12I don't think they got much respect or much help from anybody, including the police, but I think Michael maybe
32:20saw an opportunity to take advantage of that.
32:24Michael set himself up as a community representative, and that was a shrewd move because that meant he brought the
32:34community on side.
32:36I mean, later he had a paid job with the council as an immigration advisor.
32:43He wasn't hiding. He was very, very high profile.
32:49And if, in the course of a patrol, in or around the edges of Tuckstuff, you pulled somebody over and
32:54started having a chat to them, or started searching them, or looking through the car or whatever, you could be
33:01pretty sure that Michael would turn up.
33:06So, he was very, very influential.
33:12Presuming you would have been the only person in this movement living the lifestyle that you were.
33:18I suppose so, yes.
33:20I suppose so, yes.
33:21So, you can see why there was a lot of attention on you.
33:25Yeah.
33:27But, as I say, I wasn't doing anything, so I wasn't bothered.
33:35I was, like, on patrol, working off very limited intelligence.
33:39I didn't have the means to deal with him.
33:43The chances of searching Michael in his Rolls Royce and finding a shed load of heroin were nil.
33:50Michael didn't have to go near it.
33:53The answer to dealing with the likes of Michael, who lives in a big, fine house, immaculately dressed, immaculately spoken.
34:01To break that down and get behind it, you needed long-stained, informed investigations.
34:19Criminal fraternity tended to call us the church, which is short for Church of England, which is Customs and Excise.
34:27People were more worried about the church being after them than they were about the busies.
34:33If it's the busies, okay, we've got a chance.
34:35If it's the church, we're stuffed.
34:48I'm not sure the deal's going to happen, sir.
34:51Lack of funds, apparently.
34:54Yes, sir.
34:55I understand.
34:59Church pulled the plug on the armed officers because the overtime and the room service blew our budget.
35:04Not that Michael was going to show up anyway.
35:13Someone's pulling into the car park.
35:17It's the bear. Can confirm it's the bear. He's carrying the bag. Over.
35:21Is he alone?
35:23Yes, sir. No one else in the car. He's approaching the lobby.
35:27Do you have eyes on Michael's house?
35:29Yes, sir. We're outside his house. The car is parked outside. No movement.
35:33Stay focused, everyone.
35:38Suspect is through lobby, approaching corridor.
35:41We have no backup, so be careful.
35:43On my word, we're going hard and quick.
35:47It's the bear.
35:47Yes, sir.
36:05Your money.
36:11Eleven thousand, and I'll take one.
36:25Go, go, go. All units, go for the knock.
36:31I'm arresting you on suspicion of the involvement of the illegal importation of a controlled drug.
36:36You do not have to say anything.
36:37Anything you do say may be taken down and used in evidence against you.
36:41Hey!
36:42Yeah, turn it around.
36:43What's up?
36:43Michael Showers.
36:45I'm arresting you on suspicion of the involvement of the illegal importation of a controlled drug.
36:50You do not have to say anything, but what you say may be given in evidence against you.
36:55Next thing I know, at half past two in the morning, customers raid my home.
37:02I'm in bed with my wife, who was then pregnant, and arrested.
37:06You had to fight.
37:14What'd you say?
37:20Well, you've got to get out of bed.
37:36You're really scared.
37:36You've got to make your own mind.
37:39What happened was that I was working at the immigration unit
37:43and a client, Mohamed Hubert, wanted entry clearance to his wife.
37:49What I didn't know is that he was doing a heroin deal
37:56and the customs were following him
37:57and they followed him to the immigration unit
37:59and once they saw that I was part of the immigration unit
38:05I became the target.
38:10Can you tell me about how Operation Rain Man came about?
38:16So this guy, Haji, goes to the British High Commission in Pakistan
38:22and he says he's been approached by a supplier
38:25to take drugs to the UK for a man called Michael.
38:30So Haji is offered payment to take part in the smuggle
38:35as the courier so that they could trap the gang with the drugs in the UK
38:40so they would have the strongest possible evidence against them.
38:49So this supplier in Pakistan, the commander in the Mujahideen, gives Haji the heroine
38:57and he takes it to the British High Commission and gives it to the customs officer.
39:04British customs subsequently bring the heroine into the UK
39:08while the courier, Haji, travels on another flight.
39:13The heroine and the courier were reunited once in the UK
39:16and he holds up in a hotel near Manchester airport.
39:22The truth is, I had no idea this man existed.
39:29I had no idea whatsoever.
39:31I had no idea about the hotel or anything else.
39:37Showers denied that he'd been involved in a drug importation.
39:40As far as he was concerned, he was helping one of the defendants with an immigration appeal.
39:49But itemised phone records produced at the trial told a different story.
39:54There were phone calls to and from Peshwar.
39:57One of the phone numbers in Peshwar was printed on a bus stop
40:02right next door to the location of the drug handover.
40:08Evidence was also produced that Showers telephoned Haji at the hotel.
40:16Hello.
40:17Take down this number.
40:19You don't want to get over here.
40:21When this was put to Showers in cross-examination, he admitted it.
40:26But said he was simply returning a call himself from the hotel.
40:30It was just an error.
40:31That was his explanation.
40:36When Showers was finally arrested,
40:40they found a complete set of telephone numbers and phone messages
40:45tied to the conspiracy at his home.
40:51You were convicted of smuggling heroin?
40:55Yeah, convicted on fabricated evidence by Her Majesty's Customs and Excise.
41:01You're innocent of that?
41:03Yes.
41:04Yeah.
41:11When the jury came in, none of them looked at me.
41:15And I put a brave face on it.
41:18I shook my head and said, no.
41:21No.
41:22He was convicted over a conspiracy involving 12 kilos of heroin
41:27and he was sentenced to 20 years' imprisonment,
41:31which for that amount of drugs was extraordinary.
41:36Maybe that tells you something about a system that wanted to make an example of him.
41:43It could just be that he fought a bad case.
41:45But it was an extraordinary sentence.
41:52I know that it withstood the scrutiny of the Court of Appeal
41:56and it was upheld.
41:58So his denials really have been tested and found wanting.
42:07There is a sadness sometimes I see in your eyes.
42:10Is that fair to say?
42:12Oh yeah, I mean, I'm sad about what was stolen from me, time-wise.
42:17They broke up my families.
42:19That's it.
42:23You know, if he's done 20 here,
42:25he's had about 10% of the jail he could have got.
42:28It's the same for me.
42:31Yeah, I got away...
42:34with a lot.
42:36I'm not going to say I got away with murder,
42:38but I got away with a lot.
42:40Yeah.
42:42If I'd been called for what I've done,
42:45we wouldn't be sat here now.
42:51I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
42:51I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
42:58I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
42:58I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
43:02I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
43:04I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
43:04I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
43:05I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
43:07I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
43:08I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
43:08I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
43:12I'm not going to say I got away with a lot of people.
43:21the 80s when we were like in our teens it went from your beer goggles it on you're doing a
43:27slower
43:28you're thinking oh yeah she'll do and then it all just went to bink bink what the
43:35my first sexist experience it's just unbelievable i couldn't believe anything could be so good
43:44they walked up that corridor i was like what the fuck's that noise
43:50he needed the money to get into the clubs and the bloody drugs
43:55we had no money and we'd do a ram raid because you couldn't miss it
44:00you go to a club with 2 000 people in for me it was like look at the money that
44:04could be in this now
44:08people say a man is made out of mud a poor man's made out of muscle and blood
44:15muscle and blood and skin and bones a mind that's weak and a back that's strong you load 16 tons
44:23what do you get another day older and deeper in depth saint peter don't you call me cause i can't
44:31go
44:31i owe my soul to the company store
44:35you
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