- 13 hours ago
In an exclusive with India Today, Lebanon's Deputy Prime Minister, Tarek Mitri, said that two Israeli ministers warned that Southern Lebanon will be another Gaza.
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00:00Hello everyone, you're watching NewsTrack with me, Maria Shaquille.
00:03It's almost a month since the war began in West Asia,
00:06a war that has brought much of the world to its knees.
00:10Even as strikes continue across the region,
00:12Donald Trump has postponed plans to start destroying Iranian energy plants
00:18by another 10 days, while the Strait of Hormuz remains choked.
00:23Meanwhile, Israel has continued strikes across Iran
00:27and at the same time intensified its ground invasion in southern Lebanon.
00:33Israel has issued displacement orders for all residents of Lebanon
00:38living south of the Zaharani River.
00:42Is this just retaliation or something more strategic?
00:46As strikes intensify, concerns are growing that Israel may be looking
00:51beyond immediate security goals and towards holding ground.
00:57This wouldn't be the first time.
01:01Israel invaded the country in 1978 and again in 1982
01:05during the first Lebanon war.
01:08What followed was a long, costly occupation that lasted nearly two decades,
01:14finally ending in a withdrawal in 2000.
01:17Even after that, tensions never really faded.
01:21The 2006 Lebanon war showed how difficult it is for Israel
01:26to achieve lasting strategic gains in Lebanon.
01:30Now, is this latest attempt by Israel to shape a new buffer zone
01:35similar to what we have seen in Gaza?
01:37So, tonight, the big question that I ask,
01:41is Israel trying to neutralise a threat
01:44or redrawing the map once again?
01:48First up the story and then I bring in a special guest.
02:01While the world watches hostilities in Iran,
02:05another front is exploding into a humanitarian crisis.
02:11Israel has openly declared its intention to occupy southern Lebanon
02:16up to the Litany River.
02:20Under international law,
02:22attacks on civilian infrastructure are prohibited.
02:27Israel says it is targeting Hezbollah infrastructure
02:30embedded within population centres.
02:35But the scale and intensity of Israel's occupation
02:38have raised concerns over whether Lebanon is the next Gaza for Israel.
02:49So, behind me, this is the borderline and you can see the thick layer of smog
02:56and smoke all across the southern Lebanon.
03:02All those villages which are now becoming the battlefield
03:06between Hezbollah and IDF.
03:09Actually, after the Gaza war, first time,
03:14more than 80 attacks had been carried out by Hezbollah
03:18on the Israeli ground forces.
03:22One million people, nearly a fifth of Lebanon's entire population,
03:27uprooted from their homes.
03:29Over a thousand dead.
03:31A fragile state pushed to the break.
03:36Israeli defense minister has made it clear.
03:38Civilians won't return until Israel decides its borders are secure.
03:45That's not just retaliation.
03:48It's a territorial control,
03:50with echoes of the Gaza playbook.
03:54Israeli troops have invaded South Lebanon in a decades-old cycle.
03:58In 1978, Israel invaded South Lebanon
04:01and set up an occupation zone
04:03in an operation against Palestinian guerrillas.
04:07Israel ultimately withdrew from southern Lebanon in May 2000
04:11after continued attacks on its military positions
04:14in occupied territory of Hezbollah.
04:17That marked a turning point for Hezbollah
04:19since it had succeeded for the first time
04:21in driving out Israel from Arab territory.
04:25Netanyahu is hoping this time,
04:28the results are different.
04:31The question is,
04:33are Israel's strikes about eliminating a threat
04:36or about creating leverage,
04:38holding territory
04:40and forcing a new security order?
04:47The war in Iran may end soon
04:50if the US decides to disengage.
04:52But the Lebanon front reflects Israel's shift
04:56towards a long-term struggle
04:58for regional dominance
05:00and is unlikely to see Israel walk away anytime soon.
05:06With Ashrafani in Lebanon,
05:09Bureau Report, India Today.
05:15And as Israel intensifies operations
05:18in southern Lebanon
05:20and signals plans for a security buffer,
05:23a larger question is emerging.
05:25Are we witnessing the opening
05:27of a second Gaza-style front?
05:30With civilian areas hit,
05:32mass displacement underway
05:34and fears of a prolonged presence
05:36on Lebanese soil,
05:37the conflict risks
05:40redrawing the region's map.
05:42Joining me now is
05:45Mr. Tariq Mitri.
05:47He is Lebanon's deputy prime minister
05:50and a seasoned UN diplomat.
05:52He's joining me straight from Beirut.
05:54Really appreciate your time here, sir.
05:56How bad is the situation
05:58on the ground right now
05:59in southern Lebanon
06:00and is the Lebanese state
06:02still in control
06:04or has it already slipped
06:06beyond your hands?
06:12The airstrikes continue unabated.
06:18Some are surgical,
06:22as the Israelis would like to call them,
06:24and many are not.
06:27And all these operations
06:31do not abide by the principle
06:35of distinction
06:36between combatants and civilians.
06:40It's been a heavy toll
06:43as far as civilians are concerned.
06:47We've had more than 1,000 civilians killed.
06:50But the most difficult issue
06:54the government is facing at present
06:57is the large number of displaced persons,
07:02about 20% of the total population,
07:05that are housed in shelters
07:08without a clear perspective
07:11on when will they be able
07:14to go back to their homes,
07:15especially those who came from villages
07:19that will be part
07:23of the presumed buffer zone
07:27that Israel had repeatedly said
07:30they will establish.
07:32It's a buffer zone,
07:34I'm quoting the Israelis,
07:37that will not be populated.
07:39And therefore, there is a,
07:42literally, there is an ethnic cleansing
07:44that has taken place in the south.
07:48A number of villages have been emptied
07:51of their inhabitants
07:53with no perspective of return.
07:55Now, you asked about the government.
07:58The government is doing its every best
08:00with little international support,
08:03as far as I know,
08:07is doing its best to cater
08:09for immediate needs
08:13of the displaced populations,
08:14provide shelters, food,
08:17basic medication and healthcare.
08:23But the means at our disposal
08:26are limited.
08:28We've had an appeal
08:30by the United Nations agencies
08:33and the response has been
08:36relatively good.
08:39But that would help us
08:41cope with the situation
08:42for a month or two.
08:44Our fear is that
08:46if the situation goes on
08:49for another three or four months,
08:51then we might run short
08:54of capacities to deal
08:58with the emergency situation.
09:00It's certainly very, very worrying,
09:02Mr. Mithri,
09:03because you've just said
09:04that there's some kind
09:05of ethnic cleansing
09:06which is happening.
09:07We are seeing strikes on homes,
09:09bridges and even medical facilities.
09:11Do you believe that civilians
09:13are being deliberately targeted
09:14or is this being justified
09:16perhaps as a collateral damage?
09:20Well, you know,
09:21in international humanitarian law,
09:24there are two principles.
09:31One is the principle
09:33of proportionality
09:35and the other is
09:37the principle of distinction.
09:39And Israel has a track record
09:40of ignoring those two principles.
09:45Now, as I said,
09:47there are some Israeli airstrikes
09:49that, with the help
09:52of modern technology,
09:54AI, what have you,
09:57are extremely well targeted.
10:00So they kill Hezbollah operatives
10:06in their bedrooms, so to speak.
10:09Some of those operations
10:11are surgical.
10:13But many more are not.
10:18So they destroy a whole building
10:24once they are after one or two persons.
10:28Now, there are cases
10:29where the Israeli army
10:33announces that it's about
10:38to bomb a particular building,
10:42giving time, 15 minutes
10:45or 30 minutes,
10:47for the civilian inhabitants
10:49to flee.
10:51Now, the Israelis
10:54sort of take pride
10:55in this
10:56as an expression
10:59of their high moral standards.
11:03But in fact,
11:05according to jurists
11:08that are familiar
11:09with and knowledgeable
11:12of international humanitarian law,
11:14this is in itself
11:16a war crime.
11:17The fact that you announce
11:19that you're going
11:20to bomb a building
11:21and ask the people
11:22to evacuate
11:23does not exonerate you
11:26from having committed a crime.
11:31Israel has called this
11:33a security buffer.
11:35At what point,
11:37according to you,
11:38does that become
11:38an occupation
11:39under international law
11:41since you're speaking
11:42about jurists here?
11:43And are you formally
11:45accusing Israel
11:46of crossing that line?
11:48And would you then say
11:50that Israel is attempting
11:52to replicate
11:52a Gaza-style model
11:54in southern Lebanon,
11:56controlling territory
11:57and displacing,
11:58you know, people,
12:02millions of people there?
12:06You know,
12:07we have every reason
12:08to apprehend
12:10such a possibility
12:11and to be worried
12:13about the possibility
12:14because there are
12:15at least two cabinet,
12:17Israeli cabinet ministers
12:21who warned us
12:23or informed us
12:26that southern Lebanon,
12:31the so-called buffer zone,
12:33will be another Gaza.
12:36it's not an accusation
12:39that we voice against them.
12:41It is them
12:41who drew the comparison
12:44between what they're doing
12:45in southern Lebanon
12:47and what they have done
12:49previously in Gaza.
12:51And the fact that
12:53there is a whole region
12:56where the level of destruction
12:58is such
12:59that villages
13:00not only are emptied,
13:02but are made
13:03inhabitable
13:07in
13:09sort of supports
13:11this comparison
13:13made with Gaza.
13:15So you are of the opinion
13:17that
13:17this could be
13:19a long-term occupation?
13:23I would believe
13:25this is the Israeli intention.
13:30This is what
13:31they have said.
13:34Okay,
13:35so, you know,
13:35that certainly
13:36is concerning.
13:37Israel has said
13:38that Hezbollah's presence
13:40justifies its actions.
13:42But can any sovereign state
13:44accept foreign military
13:45operations on its soil
13:46because of
13:47a non-state actor
13:49within its borders?
13:52You know,
13:54I mean,
13:55from day one,
13:57the Lebanese government
14:01has clearly stated
14:03that this is a war
14:06that we did not want.
14:08This is a war
14:10that Lebanon
14:10was dragged into.
14:12It's a non-state actor,
14:14Hezbollah,
14:14in this case,
14:15that waged the war.
14:19But Israel
14:20is not
14:21fighting
14:22Hezbollah
14:24on Lebanese grounds.
14:26It is
14:27launching
14:29an all-out war
14:30against Lebanon.
14:31Of course,
14:33their main
14:33target
14:34is Hezbollah,
14:36but
14:36Lebanon,
14:38whether they call it
14:39collateral damage
14:40or any other word
14:42for that purpose,
14:43Lebanon
14:45is
14:47suffering.
14:48Lebanon
14:49is paying
14:50a heavy price,
14:51not just
14:52the non-state actor
14:54that is called
14:55Hezbollah.
14:56So,
14:57does this war
14:58then weaken
14:59the Lebanese state
15:00further,
15:01or does it
15:02risk
15:02strengthening
15:03Hezbollah
15:03politically and
15:04militarily
15:05inside Lebanon?
15:09Well,
15:10I wouldn't
15:11be able
15:11to
15:12commend
15:13this.
15:16We
15:17don't
15:17know
15:18exactly,
15:19no one
15:19really
15:20knows
15:23how
15:24weakened
15:25is
15:26Hezbollah
15:27militarily.
15:28The Israelis
15:29have said
15:29that they
15:30have been
15:31degrading
15:31Hezbollah.
15:32how far
15:34they succeeded
15:35in degrading
15:36Hezbollah,
15:36it's hard
15:36to be seen.
15:38But
15:38for us,
15:40it's not just
15:41Hezbollah
15:42as a military
15:42force.
15:43Hezbollah
15:44is a
15:44political
15:45military
15:46organization,
15:48and
15:48Hezbollah
15:49enjoys
15:50the support
15:51of
15:52a
15:54significant
15:56majority,
15:57I would
15:58say,
15:58of one
15:59particular
16:00Lebanese
16:00community
16:01that is
16:02the Muslim
16:02Shiite
16:03community.
16:05And
16:07so
16:10whatever
16:11happens
16:11to
16:12Hezbollah
16:13militarily
16:15does not
16:16necessarily
16:17entail
16:18an elimination
16:20of Hezbollah
16:21as a
16:22political
16:23force.
16:25And
16:25Hezbollah
16:27is represented
16:28in government,
16:29they are,
16:31they have
16:32a large
16:33parliamentary
16:34group,
16:36and
16:36this is
16:37a reality
16:38that we've
16:39always
16:39to keep
16:40in mind,
16:42no matter
16:43what we
16:44would like,
16:45how much
16:46we would like
16:46to see
16:48the military
16:49role
16:50of Hezbollah
16:53are diminishing
16:54for the
16:57benefit
16:57of the
16:59authority
16:59of the
16:59state
17:00over its
17:01territory.
17:02Okay,
17:03Mr.
17:03Mitri,
17:04with over
17:05a million
17:05people
17:06displaced,
17:07is this
17:08becoming
17:08a strategy
17:09of demographic
17:10pressure
17:11to make
17:12parts of
17:13southern
17:13Lebanon
17:14unlivable?
17:16Yes,
17:17definitely,
17:17this is,
17:18I mean,
17:18what we see
17:19on the ground
17:20is making
17:21part of
17:21southern Lebanon
17:22unlivable,
17:24and therefore
17:25driving its
17:26population
17:26northward,
17:28and many,
17:32we don't have
17:33an exact figure,
17:34but anything
17:35between
17:35700,000
17:36and a million
17:39Lebanese
17:40are displaced,
17:44some are
17:45in Beirut,
17:48our capital
17:48city,
17:49and others
17:50are scattered
17:51throughout
17:52the four
17:54corners
17:54of our
17:55country,
17:58and the
18:00perspective
18:01of their
18:01return
18:06is not
18:08clear
18:08at all.
18:11Okay,
18:11so,
18:13Israel
18:14occupied
18:14southern
18:15Lebanon
18:16for nearly
18:16two decades
18:17before
18:18withdrawing
18:18in 2000.
18:19What
18:20lessons from
18:21that experience
18:22are being
18:22ignored today,
18:23and are we
18:24seeing history
18:25repeat itself?
18:27You know,
18:28I mean,
18:29I cannot
18:31speak on
18:32what goes
18:34on in
18:34the collective
18:36mind of
18:38the Israeli
18:38leadership,
18:39but the
18:42lesson of
18:42history is
18:43clear.
18:45Violence breeds
18:46violence,
18:47occupation
18:49invites
18:50resistance,
18:51and for
18:52those who
18:53have a short
18:54memory,
18:56occupation
18:57of parts
18:59of southern
19:00Lebanon
19:00in the 80s
19:01has led
19:02to the
19:03emergence
19:03and development
19:04of Hezbollah.
19:05Hezbollah
19:06is a child
19:08of occupation
19:09and resistance
19:10to occupation.
19:12Just a couple
19:13of more
19:14questions,
19:14sir.
19:15The United
19:16States continues
19:17to back
19:18Israel's
19:18security concerns.
19:20Do you
19:20believe that
19:22Washington,
19:23in fact,
19:24let me be
19:25more direct,
19:26is Donald
19:26Trump enabling
19:28escalation,
19:29or quietly
19:30trying to
19:30restrain it?
19:32Restrain it.
19:35neither nor,
19:37I would say.
19:38I think,
19:40you know,
19:40it's hard
19:41to understand
19:43and describe,
19:45therefore,
19:47what's on
19:49the mind
19:50of the
19:51American
19:51president.
19:52But we,
19:55I think,
19:56it would be,
19:58it would make
19:59sense
20:00for any
20:01observer to
20:02say
20:03that the
20:04U.S.
20:06see
20:06that the
20:07front
20:08of the
20:10main battle
20:11is Iran
20:12itself.
20:13And then
20:14Lebanon
20:15is a
20:16kind of
20:17secondary
20:18battleground.
20:20The main
20:20battleground
20:21is in
20:22and around
20:22Iran.
20:24And therefore,
20:28one could
20:29think,
20:31have reasons
20:32to think,
20:33that if
20:34a ceasefire
20:36is reached
20:37in Iran
20:38before April
20:396th,
20:41this might
20:43lead to a
20:43ceasefire
20:44in Lebanon.
20:44but you
20:46can equally
20:46also
20:51think
20:52that
20:55if an
20:57agreement
20:57between the
20:58Americans
20:59and Iran
21:00is reached,
21:03the Israelis
21:04will continue
21:06their
21:08operations
21:10in Lebanon
21:11and will
21:11not
21:13consider
21:14themselves
21:14bound
21:15to an
21:16agreement,
21:17to an
21:18American-Iranian
21:19agreement.
21:19It remains to be
21:20seen what the
21:21United States
21:22will say
21:23and do.
21:25So what is
21:26Lebanon's
21:27red line now?
21:29And how close
21:30are we to
21:30this escalating
21:32from a
21:34border conflict
21:35into a
21:35full-scale
21:36regional war?
21:39I mean,
21:39the regional
21:40war is
21:40going on.
21:44There is
21:45no doubt.
21:46It's not
21:46just
21:48there are
21:49two major
21:50battlegrounds,
21:51I mean,
21:52a major
21:52and a minor
21:53if you want,
21:54a major
21:54being
21:55battleground
21:56in Iran
21:57and then
21:59Lebanon,
22:00but many
22:00other
22:02countries
22:03in the
22:03Gulf
22:04and even
22:05beyond
22:06the Gulf
22:06are also
22:08in their
22:10own right
22:11battlegrounds.
22:12So the
22:14war is
22:15regional,
22:17there is
22:17no doubt
22:18about that,
22:20and the
22:21fears
22:22is that
22:23it may,
22:25if not,
22:26if these
22:27fires not
22:28reached
22:28within the
22:29next few
22:30days,
22:31it will
22:32extend
22:32into a
22:33much
22:33broader
22:35war
22:36war that
22:36will affect
22:39Europe,
22:40Asia,
22:40what have
22:41you,
22:43it won't
22:43be restricted
22:44to the
22:45zone where
22:46the major
22:47fighting takes
22:49place.
22:50Since you're
22:51saying that
22:51there is a war
22:52within a war
22:53which is
22:53happening here,
22:54there are two
22:54battlegrounds,
22:55So Mr.
22:56Tariq Mitri,
22:56let me ask you
22:57the last
22:58question.
22:59If this
23:00buffer zone
23:01becomes a
23:01reality,
23:02are we
23:03looking at
23:04another
23:04prolonged
23:05Israeli
23:05presence in
23:06Lebanon
23:07just under
23:09a different
23:09name perhaps?
23:11Well,
23:11yes,
23:12definitely.
23:13I mean,
23:14buffer zone
23:15will have
23:17to be
23:18under Israeli
23:19control.
23:20For us,
23:22it's another
23:22name for
23:23occupation.
23:25It is an
23:26occupation of
23:27Lebanese land,
23:28no doubt.
23:30So what are you
23:31expecting from the
23:31international community,
23:33particularly Washington
23:33and the NATO
23:35countries?
23:37We're expecting
23:38first to stop
23:39the war
23:40and then
23:41negotiate
23:42a political
23:43diplomatic
23:44exit.
23:47We know
23:48this is
23:49not
23:50an
23:52easily
23:53attainable
23:54object,
23:54but that's
23:55the only
23:58hope we
24:00have.
24:01All right,
24:03Tariq Mitri,
24:04Lebanon's
24:04Deputy Prime
24:06Minister,
24:06thank you for
24:07speaking to
24:07India today.
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