00:00Joining me on the set is Nitsen Horowitz, former Israeli minister and a journalist and author.
00:04Hello to you, Nitsen, thank you for coming in.
00:07We just heard that report from our correspondent in Tehran talking about Israeli strikes on civilian infrastructure.
00:14What's your reaction to that?
00:15Well, you see, Israeli government is afraid that Trump is going to end the war very soon.
00:21Since there are negotiations going on now, then his declarations are pointing to the point where he's going to end
00:30the war as he did last summer.
00:33And so Netanyahu wants to take advantage of the few days left in order to increase the strikes.
00:40But it's clear, I think, it was clear from the very beginning, I think, that changing the regime in Tehran
00:49and eliminating Tehran's nuclear and ballistic capabilities cannot be achieved by bombing from the air, by airstrikes.
01:01So the goals of the war were not realistic.
01:03And I think more and more people in Israel are beginning to begin to understand this point.
01:11I mean, at the beginning, there was an overwhelming support for the war in Israel.
01:15The polls showed over 90 percent.
01:17Because we were promised, as maybe Trump was promised by Netanyahu, that the regime would be wiped out, et cetera,
01:25et cetera.
01:26But after a few weeks, with the heavy damage in Israel as well, alarms all night long, you know, missiles
01:37everywhere, then people start to realize that, well, this is not attainable.
01:44Does the prime minister realize that?
01:46I mean, if the attacks are escalating, why is he worried about the war ending?
01:53Because his interest, also political interest, is to continue the war, continue the war.
02:00You know, Israel is in a state of almost permanent war since October 7th.
02:05So it's already three years of a continuous war.
02:11You know, it helps Netanyahu avoid the creation of a national inquiry, committee of inquiry to investigate the October 7th
02:23attack.
02:24It helps him with his judicial overall, you know, with internal political maneuvers.
02:29This is an electoral year in Israel.
02:32So for him, being like a chef de guerre, you know, wartime leader, you know, politically speaking, it helps him.
02:43So for him, there is an interest in going on, you know, it's not just in Iran.
02:49It's Lebanon.
02:50It's the West Bank, other fronts as well.
02:53So, but, you know, it's not up to him.
02:57It's President Trump who decides.
03:00So he knows, and he's already talking about it, that the war might end in a few days or in
03:09a week or two.
03:09So he would like to take advantage of the time and to have some more strikes, et cetera, et cetera.
03:18You and I each alluded to it earlier about the massive public support that was.
03:22Yes, at the beginning.
03:23Yeah, at the beginning.
03:24I think it was over 90 percent of Jewish responders to a poll.
03:27From what you gauge, even if it's just anecdotally, has that support dropped off?
03:32Has that?
03:33I think so.
03:34I think so.
03:35Judging by social media and by what people say on mainstream media and on the street, you know, people are
03:43very tired.
03:44They were promised a quick victory.
03:48And, you know, Iran is still capable of launching missiles every day, each and every day, all over the country,
04:00from north to south.
04:02So nobody is protected.
04:03And so people are, you know, schools are closed.
04:08Many people stay at home.
04:11Many, many buildings do not have any kind of protection, you know, basements or et cetera.
04:19So people are afraid.
04:21It's dangerous.
04:23And there is no victory.
04:24I mean, as you see, as we saw, the regime, the Iranian regime is still there.
04:29Right.
04:29There is a new leadership.
04:31Our correspondent said that's a feeling why Iran feels like it has the upper hand.
04:34Now Iran is sort of dictating the terms for a ceasefire.
04:41So Iran has more influence, more leverage.
04:43So people begin to ask questions.
04:46Why did we get into this war?
04:50Were the goals real?
04:52I mean, what was the reason behind all that?
04:56There is also an economic price.
04:57You know, it costs Israel billions of dollars every day.
05:02So, yeah, I think more and more people are questioning the real motives of the role.
05:09Although everybody wish Iran would become a flourishing democracy, et cetera.
05:15But can you really achieve that by airstrikes?
05:20I don't think so.
05:21And many people don't think so as well.
05:23Do we have an idea of the economic cost of the war for Israel?
05:28Look, the Israeli economy is, for almost a month now, is completely paralyzed.
05:35There are almost no flights, you know, and many people do not work.
05:40As I told you, the educational system is closed.
05:43So, yes, it's a heavy price.
05:45And also many people wounded, killed, a lot of material damage.
05:53About that material damage.
05:54It's not easy.
05:56We're talking about the Israeli military censor.
05:58Yes.
05:59The previous program.
06:00How much of the images of the damage are being shown on TV?
06:05And how much more widespread is the damage than what's actually being shown?
06:09Well, there is a censorship mechanism to prevent the media from showing exact locations of, you know, hits and et
06:21cetera, et cetera.
06:22So, I would guess that the damage is more, is bigger than what is shown on TV, et cetera.
06:31But since people take pictures themselves, you know, on social media, so you can see lots of stuff.
06:38And these are very powerful missiles, Iranian missiles, and they hit entire buildings.
06:48So, when an entire building collapsed, for instance, in the town of Arad, in the south of the country, and
06:54Dimona also, entire buildings were destroyed.
06:59So, we had hundreds of wounded people in those areas.
07:04And so, people are beginning to get, to be more frustrated from this ongoing situation.
07:15You know, the Israeli population was promised at the beginning of the war that after a few days, there would
07:21be less missile attacks, less alarms.
07:25But it's not happening.
07:26So, people are, you know, they know that it's going to be Trump that would stop the war and not
07:37Netanyahu.
07:38So, they're waiting for Trump's decision.
07:40That's the situation.
07:41Israel is waiting for Trump's decision.
07:43You know, some of the critics of the U.S. administration had said that Israel dragged the United States into
07:49this war.
07:49Others, I mean, you're saying that it's Trump that's going to have the final decision.
07:52Well, it's possible that Netanyahu convinced Trump that it would be an easy win.
07:57There are reports in recent days in Israel as for the, that the Mossad, Israeli security agency, intelligence agency,
08:09presented the scenario to Netanyahu that it would be actually quite easy to topple the regime by bombing all sorts
08:20of certain strategic points.
08:22And then the masses in Tehran, in Iran would go down the street and would, you know, topple the regime
08:28and make a new revolution.
08:31But it didn't happen.
08:33The people in Iran, the demonstrators, the people who are against the regime are afraid to demonstrate because, you know,
08:42we know what happened a month ago or two months ago.
08:46They were shot or more than 30,000 people were shot dead in the streets of Tehran by the Revolutionary
08:55Guards.
08:56And so they were afraid. So this scenario that Israel and the U.S. would bomb Tehran and the people
09:02would go out and, you know, throw out the mullahs, you know, the ayatollahs, it didn't happen.
09:10And maybe, maybe, maybe Trump is maybe frustrated that he was dragged into the war.
09:18I mean, he, he decided to get in, although his whole ideology and his base, Republican base, was against these
09:28kinds of overseas adventures.
09:31But, yeah, now he's trying to, to, to try to, to find a solution out of it.
09:38Yeah. So, so, so real quickly, if there is a negotiated end to this war, how can the region just
09:44turn the page from, uh, there's a new supreme leader, there's, uh, Israel and Iran are no closer to settling
09:51their grievances about one another.
09:54Um, the Gulf states have been attacked. There have been dozens killed there. What does it mean for the future,
09:59even if a peace is settled?
10:01I think, uh, the situation is going to continue to be tensed because, uh, it's not just Iran.
10:09Nowadays, there is a war going on in Lebanon, which could be, uh, quite, uh, serious.
10:15You know, it's already very serious and it could, uh, could develop.
10:19Uh, there is the situation in the West Bank. Gaza is still a problem.
10:24And as you mentioned, Iran, if there is a, uh, an agreement and the regime stays in place, then we
10:32can expect more and more, um, events.
10:36So, I don't think, uh, we can talk about turning a page in the region, unfortunately. Uh, not yet.
10:42Nitsen, thank you so much for your time. Nitsen Horowitz, former Israeli minister.
10:46And as he's saying, uh, on the war's second front in Lebanon, there has been, uh, raging fighting.
10:52This Friday, there was a smoke scene, uh, above the north, uh, the coastal city of Tyre.
10:57Lebanon drawn into the war after Hezbollah had fired rockets into Israel, avenging the killing of Iran's supreme leader earlier
11:03this month.
11:04Since then, Israel has been pummeling the south of the country, as well as the capital of Beirut and its
11:08southern suburbs.
11:09Israeli strikes have killed more than 1,100 people in Lebanon and displaced over a million.
11:14Israel has also been sending ground troops into southern Lebanon to create what it calls a buffer zone,
11:18though some observers call it an invasion or illegal occupation.
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