- 2 months ago
Bert Jacobs built Life Is Good with his brother, a beat-up van, and $78. He explains how positivity became a competitive advantage and why giving back was never optional. The Playmakers nonprofit grew alongside the brand and sits at the core of its “why.” Bert also shares his belief in capitalism and business as the only way to save the world.
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00:00Free enterprise capitalism has created upward mobility, we've cured diseases,
00:06we've created sanitation systems. All you ever hear is the bad stuff. Not only is capitalism
00:12not the bad guy, I would challenge anyone who thinks we're going to solve the world's problems
00:17without business. Hey everyone, welcome to How Success Happens. I'm Dan Bova,
00:27writer and editor at entrepreneur.com. If you're like me, you can use a little pick-me-up. There
00:33are a lot of awful people out there doing a lot of awful stuff out in the world, but it
00:40is good
00:41to remember that there are also a lot of good people doing a lot of good things too, like
00:47today's guest, Burt Jacobs. He's the co-founder of the Life is Good apparel brand that was started
00:54with 78 bucks and today is worth slightly more, you know, give or take 100 mil or so. We're going
01:03to find out from Burt how to build a brand around a message that resonates with buyers and does actual
01:10tangible good in the world. Welcome, Burt. Hey Dan, thanks for having me, bud. I like your
01:18unexpected start about a lot of bad people in the world. I mean, in fact, you know. You know, your
01:25brand has been around for so long that it seems like, you know, it's always been there, but it
01:31hasn't. So I'm curious about, you know, its start and what made you want to do this in the first
01:39place.
01:39But before we get into the origin story, let's talk about like what Life is Good is doing right
01:45now because I know you're doing a lot of active, good work in the world and I'd love to talk
01:49about
01:50that. Sure. I mean, our model is very simple. So we're an integration of social work and capitalism,
01:58for profit and non-profit. We share space and we share proceeds from what we do at Life is Good.
02:06So
02:07simply put $1 out of every $10 that we make in profit supports our non-profit work.
02:15And the non-profit, we work in foster care homes, we work in homeless shelters, we work in oncology
02:22departments, and we focus on children zero to six years old that face psychological trauma. So,
02:30you know, the brand Life is Good for-profit and non-profit is all about emotional health. So it's
02:38kind of all about the same thing. Now, have you ever had anyone along the way say,
02:42hey, Bert, you can make even more money if you stop giving some of it away, if you just keep
02:47it
02:47all? Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. You know, we didn't, I guess, I guess we weren't always so strategic about
02:54anything in the beginning. And, and we really didn't start giving the 10% away with a strategy
03:04for building the business. But these days you have something called the net promoter score,
03:09right? Which is an important number and it's, and ours is really high. The number is the percentage of
03:18people out of a hundred that would, that would recommend your brand to somebody else. You know,
03:25you're able to get information about what consumers care about and why they buy our brand.
03:30And there's three main reasons. Um, one of them is the optimistic messages.
03:37One of them is the softness of the t-shirts. Okay. So no giant surprise, no rocket science.
03:45The third one, surprisingly, and it wasn't there for the first 20 years, uh, at least to our knowledge
03:53is they're helping kids. Every time I buy something from this t-shirt, I'm helping a kid that needs it.
03:59Why do you think that might be that consumers have, you know, we we've, we've heard this, uh, a lot
04:06that people, as you said, they want to support a business that they feel like they're supporting
04:12something that they care about. They're supporting something that has the same values as they do.
04:17Why do you think that's changed over the years? And why do you think it's so important?
04:22I mean, I think forever consumers bought based on price and quality. Those were the drivers,
04:30but they, before the digital age, you know, the digital age has ushered in a lot of challenges,
04:36but it's done a lot of great things too. And one of the great things is it's put powers at
04:42power in
04:42the hands of consumers and ordinary people. Traditionally, you know, if we go through history,
04:48people felt sort of powerless against corporations, businesses, advertising, there was no, you know,
04:56fluid communication between the two. And the digital age has given a voice to consumers.
05:02So people write about blog about talk about share opinions about more than ever. And as a result,
05:11as a business owner, you have to recognize, I don't care how, uh, smart or innovative you think
05:19you are, you will not build your brand on your own and you, and the consumers have to coauthor your
05:25story. And so that's been really good for us because we're not, you know, like the smartest or the
05:31fastest or the strongest, certainly not the best looking. And, um, but, but, but, you know, we are
05:38who we say we are and that authenticity people vote for. And so people are, are building our business
05:46today and have built it all along because they like us. We're, we're ordinary people. We're trying
05:52to do the right thing. And, um, the same is not true for a lot of businesses that, you know,
05:58we're sort of hiding the truth or damaging the environment or, you know, not doing the right
06:04thing along the way. And consumers, just as I'm saying, they're building our business. They're,
06:09they've torn down other businesses. How do you get that message out there that lets people know
06:13you're going to buy an awesome t-shirt. It's going to be the most comfortable thing you've ever worn.
06:18Oh. And also it's doing this other stuff. That's really great for the world.
06:21Well, I mean, we've been kind of, I don't know if you want to follow our path. Like
06:26we we've been pretty slow and methodical. I see a lot of young, young businesses moving
06:32much faster than we did. And I, I would advise doing that. I think it was,
06:38we were giving the 10% from like the second or third year, but it was like the 15th year
06:44by the
06:45time we decided to put it on a hang tag and say 10% for kids. So I think finding
06:51some way where
06:51you're consistently communicating, they say consumers have to see something at least three
06:56times before it even registers. And then it has to be, you know, associated with your brand all the
07:03time. So we've just hammered home the same message. And when we put it, for example, on our website,
07:10people started donating money. We didn't even have a vehicle for them to donate money on top.
07:15And today consumers are donating almost as much as we are. And, and at some point we'll surpass.
07:22So, you know, we have millions of customers out there buying life is good t-shirts. Why not ask
07:28the question at checkout? Do you want to give a few dollars to kids that need it? Because if you
07:33make
07:34it easy for people, they'll, they'll help. It is important to point out that we're capitalists.
07:39It's funny to me that, uh, or odd that, that capitalism is almost like a dirty word to some
07:46people in, especially in the U S I mean, in, in my humble opinion, free enterprise capitalism has
07:54created upward mobility. We've cured diseases. We've created sanitation systems. All you ever hear
08:02is the bad stuff, the greed, you know what I mean? And the CEO that makes, you know, a hundred
08:09times
08:10what anyone else makes, et cetera. Of course, these, these things exist, but not only is capitalism,
08:16not the bad guy, but I would challenge anyone who thinks we're going to solve the world's problems
08:21without business to show me how there's no way business is the most powerful entity in the world.
08:29You know, it power shifted from Kings and Queens to the church, to governments. And now statistically
08:39businesses control more dollars and touch points than any entity on the planet. So if you think
08:45we're going to save the planet or we're going to, you know, help, uh, balance, uh, the, the, the,
08:52the way we live on the planet without the help of businesses, you're out to lunch, you know?
08:57So, so, so I would, so I guess my first piece of advice was, was embrace capitalism, be a capitalist.
09:03And I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to make a good living and having a nice
09:07house and even having a second house. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, you talked about your
09:13journey and how you, you've been, uh, slow and methodical. So let's, let's go back to the legendary
09:2078 bucks. How did, how did this, how did this thing all start? Yeah. Okay. So the 78 bucks is
09:27actually, um, is actually after five embarrassingly enough, it's after five and a half years of t-shirt
09:35sales. Okay. So in, in 1989, my brother, Johnny and I started making t-shirts together. We were
09:43recently out of college and, you know, trying to avoid getting a job. And we, um, we were making,
09:52designing t-shirts. We didn't have our own label. We were, we were putting our designs on
09:58Hanes or Fruit of the Loom t-shirts and getting out in the streets in Boston and selling them.
10:03And, um, it wasn't going, it wasn't going well. It's just, uh, you know, we'd have a hit for a
10:10little while here or there, but then we'd have six months with, with no hit. And the only reason we
10:16stayed in business is business is simple. It's money in and money out. And so if you don't have
10:22much money coming in, you can't spend much money. So, so we had a lot of girlfriends break up with
10:29us because our dates were like, you know, split a pizza at Papa Gino's, a small pizza, you know what
10:39I
10:40would, you know, like bump into us in the street because we would hawk t-shirts to like commuter
10:44traffic. And, um, and Boston's a small town, even though it's a major Metro, it's really a small
10:51town. And so we'd bump into people. We grew up here, you know, and they'd be like, at some point,
10:56like put their hand on your shoulder and say, why don't, why don't you get a job? Yeah.
11:03Selling in the street, uh, gave way eventually to road trips. We, we, we got a van and we started
11:10going up and down the East coast and we sold to college dormitories and that was better than the
11:16street. Still not very successful and really couldn't have built a legitimate business with
11:22the revenue we were driving, but we were doing better. And then, um, we'd go on the road for about
11:28six weeks at a time. And since the money wasn't enough, we took jobs, substitute teaching. And
11:35then when we got back to Boston, we shared an apartment and, um, we, we had our own little
11:41ritual where when we got back to Boston, we'd throw a keg party and we have all of our friends
11:47over
11:49and we'd have fun. And we'd tell stories about what happened in the road because, you know, like it,
11:54it was unusual. I mean, we, we, we sleep in the van for six weeks in a row and, you
12:00know,
12:00interesting things would happen. So we would tell stories about what, what happened. And, um,
12:07and then we put our artwork up on the walls and we let our friends tell us what they liked
12:13and what
12:13they didn't like. And what we were always trying to get to was the next t-shirt that we would
12:17print
12:18the next, you know, we would invest in, uh, 48 t-shirts and get out in the street and, and
12:24sell
12:24them. The party became life is good. The, my brother had drawn the cartoon character, Jake,
12:32but it didn't say life is good. It said draw. And the original Jake had a beret. So Jake was
12:39meant to
12:40be an artist. And the idea was that he and I are artists, but we're not like the tortured souls
12:47that,
12:48you know, want to be off in a dark room. We're kind of mainstream normal people. And so what if
12:55the artist is happy and Jake has that smile and, uh, sunglasses because he's cool. And, you know,
13:01we thought we were cool. So, um, that was kind of it, but what happened at the party was this
13:08girl
13:08who's a friend of ours circled it and she wrote, this guy's got life figured out. And that, that was
13:15like a bigger thought to us. And we were like, well, okay. In the morning we talked about it.
13:21We woke up at around noon and we went out and we looked at the thing and we looked at
13:27all the
13:27notes from everyone, whatever, but hers was the striking one. And, um, so we said, what if,
13:34what if he wasn't just an artist? What if he's an optimist and his optimism allows him to,
13:41to do anything? So then we tried it. We just took the face and put a little frame on it
13:47and,
13:47and distilled her words into the three words. Life is good. We sold 48 t-shirts in 45 minutes
13:54in the street. It scared the shit out of us. You know, we were like, because we didn't know what
14:02to
14:03do. It made us happy because like the cash was coming in, you know, and we could see it was
14:09all
14:09different people, all different demographics and like a preppy little school teacher and a Harley
14:15guy, you know, and they, they, they buying the same t-shirt and we were like, okay, this is like
14:21a dream,
14:21but now like, what do we do? That was the, that was the tricky thing. Yeah. And so the, and
14:30the,
14:30so the 78 bucks is because, um, once we realized we had something, we said, okay, let's go make some
14:38more t-shirts and let's go do this with it. And then we realized Johnny didn't even have a bank
14:44account
14:44and I had a personal bank account. We had no business bank account. It was just, it was run as
14:50a
14:51sole proprietorship under my name, but we, he and I had a business, you know, partnership between us.
14:57And so we went physically to the bank to see how much money there was. And I still have the
15:04receipt
15:05and, um, $78 was left. You know what I mean? That's incredible. Holy cow. So, so the shirts that we,
15:16that we did, it was all original artwork and it was kind of a lot of abstract things and
15:23a lot of music related things. Um, but I, I think the reason maybe it, there was a lot of
15:30great ideas
15:31and actually we use some of them now with life is good. And once we put them with the message
15:36and
15:36the brand life is good, they did well. So there's actually things that sell on our website today from
15:41way, way back then that, so like lots of t-shirts every single day. The, the problem was we didn't
15:48have any theme or brand or people didn't know like what it was or what, you know, they, you
15:56occasionally you'd have personal walk up and say, I just love this, but that's a rare person who just
16:01wants to buy from like two weird guys in the street and it's something that they made, you know what
16:05I
16:05mean? It's like a, an empathy by, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, but I
16:13think
16:13once we got going with life is good, we, we've recognized that now we could like make a little
16:20family out of it. Now you could tell a little narrative and people could get it and say,
16:25oh, it's about positive energy. You know, people would like, it's, that was one of the strengths
16:31and it is one of the strengths is it's very simple, you know, and the, and the brand name,
16:37another real benefit of having a name that already means something is we knew we didn't have any money
16:43for advertising. Like we, we were infatuated with Nike and, um, and we would talk about Nike and we
16:51would talk about Ralph Lauren, like how did this swoosh or this little polo player become so, you know,
16:57iconic. And then as we looked into it, we said, well, they spent like hundreds of millions of
17:03dollars in advertising. We can't do that, you know? So, so having a name that already means
17:09something to people was really important too. Oh, that's great. That's, that's great advice. Um,
17:15so what, what point did, um, the, you know, the charitable aspect of what you guys do come into play
17:24or
17:24what, what, what drew you specifically to helping out kids? Yeah. So two things happened. One was
17:31that even before life is good, we started working with the predecessor of the life is good kids
17:38foundation. Okay. So the playmaker project is what I described. Uh, we, we work with childcare
17:45providers that we call playmakers, um, when kids are in really difficult situations, usually poverty and
17:52violence. And the, the nonprofit was actually started by a friend of ours, a guy named Steve
17:57Gross. And he was kind of trying to find his way in the nonprofit world while we were trying to
18:05sell
18:05t-shirts out in the street. And we used to help them with fundraising. We used to run basketball
18:10tournaments in Boston and we'd just call all our friends and get together and everybody would kick
18:15in 20 bucks and the money would go to Steve to help kids. And, um, so that was an independent
18:22thing.
18:23And we didn't see it in any way connected to our business until we got traction with life is good.
18:30And we started to get mail from customers. We started to get letters and email was a new thing.
18:37Remember, this is like, you know, starts in 1994 with life is good. And email just comes around,
18:44you know, in the late nineties. And all of a sudden we're getting more mail that way,
18:49electronic mail. And the most interesting letters came in from people. And it, and we realized that
18:56our customer base wasn't what maybe we thought, like it wasn't people on easy street who had life
19:02figured out and everything was great. It was usually people that face really difficult things in their
19:08life and made it through the other side of it somehow. And they realized that they're,
19:14they're grateful for what they have and they have a more positive outlook. They, they've been through
19:20some difficult medical thing or an, or a car accident or something like that. And the most
19:25entertaining and touching letters actually came from children. We got letters from children that were in
19:31the hospital, children that had, you know, that weren't like the other kids for one reason or another,
19:37and they really embraced our brand. And so that, that turned us on. That was, that was very cool. So
19:44we
19:44thought, Hey, you know, when we got together with Steve, we'd put this deal together where we said, Hey,
19:49look, we have this business and it's starting to do well. Why don't we, you know, try to fund what
19:56you're
19:56doing and you just focus on the social work. And, uh, so that's what we did. And we've never looked
20:01back. It's, it's really been great. And I, and I honestly think that the nonprofit has helped the
20:07for-profit just as much. It's, it's like a great partnership, you know? Are there any moments, uh,
20:13over the years that really stand out to you? I mean, you've raised a lot of money for, uh, fantastic
20:19causes, any kind of one-on-one interactions that you've had where you saw directly what that money did
20:26for somebody? Yeah, many, many of them. And, you know, uh, it's not always the best thing to
20:33name names in these situations, but we've met a lot of little kids who are adults now who are doing
20:39great. And, and, um, we've met a lot of kids, uh, young kids who have said profound things in really
20:47difficult situations. Some of those kids from, uh, disasters, one of our earliest projects was
20:53Hurricane Katrina. And, and we had like boots on the ground working with children that lost their
21:00homes and their families. And I think the thing to understand is that we are resilient animals,
21:07you know, and, um, what a child needs, you know, like a lot of parents are really hard on themselves,
21:14um, because they're not perfect and they think they're not doing a good job or whatever, but most
21:19of them are doing a great job. The two things I think that a child needs to thrive in this
21:26world
21:26is that they need to feel safe and they need to feel loved. And, um, oftentimes the kids we're
21:33working with don't have that availability from their parents. There are people, human beings that
21:41are childcare providers that happen to live in their area. And what we do is we help the helpers.
21:46We train them, you know, they don't get paid enough. They don't have the right materials.
21:52No one has their back, you know? So we have their back and we work with those childcare providers.
21:58And, um, we've made a lot of great friendships with, with young kids and with families. And now
22:04we've been doing it so long that we've had the ability to go meet people after all these years of
22:10stay in touch with them all the way. And it's, it's really one of the most, uh, rewarding parts of,
22:17of anything that we've done. Yeah. That's amazing. That's beautiful. That's so amazing that you do
22:24that. And you, you know, that you staying up with, with people or they're real people to you. It's not
22:30just like this anonymous cause. Uh, it's really amazing. Thanks Dan. So we got some, uh, reader
22:37questions and, uh, I want to read one of them actually came in from my son, uh, Gus, who is
22:45studying, um, environmental science in college right now. And he's wondering, uh, what you think
22:52about the, the fast fashion craze and your advice to consumers to not be a part of the negative impact
23:02that fast fashion can have? Yeah. So fast fashion is dangerous in some ways because, um, the, the,
23:10the sourcing of the goods and the, the, um, integrity of the factories that they work with are,
23:18are not all the best. Okay. However, I don't think we should throw out the concept of fast fashion.
23:25I think the consumers once again are in control and consumers are demanding more choice and, uh,
23:35and speed to market. And we're, we're doing our best to answer those things. So we've changed our
23:41business model so that we actually print every t-shirt to order. We've invested in technology
23:47that allows us to do that. It's more expensive to print the way we're printing. It's not screen
23:52printing anymore. Uh, it's called DTG direct to garment. And we actually have direct to film as
23:59well. And, um, we do that so that we can have the right inventory and service customers. And as soon
24:07as we switch that model, let's say, I, I don't know what I'm wearing, but like, let's say I have
24:12this graphic. Okay. So it's just life is good on the left chest. So let's say I have this graphic
24:17and,
24:18um, for years it would only be available in this moss green shirt. But since I'm not physically
24:26carrying the inventory now, I can show that shirt in 10 colors. Well, what do you think happened to
24:32business? It grew a lot. All of a sudden people said, yeah, well now you have it on black. I
24:38want
24:38black, you know? And, um, so, so I don't think like, I think there are some actual negative elements
24:47to the fast fashion market. I do think that we have to kind of walk, look at why these, uh,
24:54business
24:55models came about and, and own some responsibility that the market is demanding, uh, uh, uh, faster,
25:03speedier. Said another way, the traditional retail market that, that most of America is still operating
25:10under most retail is, is not just broken. It's archaic. It's, it's, uh, it's not a 20th century
25:17model. It's a 19th century model. The model is, let me put all this shiny things in my store and
25:23hope
25:23that you buy them. And, and, and I bought them from the vendors, from the brands to come to my
25:29store
25:30because I have a crystal ball and I'm going to see what I know what the future is going to
25:34bring.
25:35No way. You're going to be left with 25% of your inventory that doesn't sell. And you're going to
25:41have to close that out. And so the model's not good. So we've, we've moved away from that model.
25:47And I think we're ahead of the curve, but if anyone's going to survive in clothing, they're going
25:52to move away from that model. It's a, you look at all the people we know, hundreds and hundreds and
25:58hundreds of friends that have, and customers that have gone out of business in retail because
26:03they're playing that game. So, so again, I would say to Gus, like, um, there is, there is some real
26:11downside and I could probably spend time listing other things to the, the, the speed to market thing,
26:17but there's a right way to do it. And, uh, and I think we have to try to crack that,
26:23that puzzle.
26:24So we pose a question, uh, in the how success happens newsletter, which anyone could, uh, subscribe
26:32to for free at info.entrepreneur.com slash HSH. And this week we asked whether people would,
26:41if they had the choice, you can inherit an existing family business and take it on your own or build
26:49your own from scratch. Uh, we've got a lot of differing opinions. And one writer wrote, uh,
26:55named Jack said, my family and I can barely make it through Thanksgiving without killing each other,
27:01much less run a business. Um, so curious you, you started life is good with your brother. What are
27:09your thoughts on the family biz? Yeah. I mean, he's not wrong. Look, when we, we started in our early
27:14twenties and we, we used to have like a, a fist fight, a physical fight, you know, like a lot
27:20of
27:20once a month. I mean, it just, we, we would pull the band over, just pull over, just shut up,
27:25pull
27:25over, you know, and we just get on the side of the highway, just beat each other up. And then,
27:30uh,
27:31it's so ridiculous. Right. But by the time we were in our, you know, mid thirties, we didn't want to
27:38beat each other up anymore, but we'd still wouldn't talk to each other for four or five days at a
27:43time.
27:43You know, now we're in a much better, better place. I think the thing that kept us going all
27:50along was we might've disagreed in the short term, but we were always very aligned on the vision and
27:58we're very aligned on the value system that the general idea that optimism, isn't the soft stuff
28:05that it's actually powerful and people really need it. And that's come a long way since we started,
28:10you know, there wasn't all this focus on positive psychology and you certainly wouldn't see the
28:15word optimism in corporate handbooks of all these big multi-billion dollar companies. Now it's
28:20everywhere. That's a really, it's a really good thing. It's come a long way. Um, but, but the family
28:26thing, I think, you know, it has its challenges like Jack says, right. And a lot of people will say,
28:32hell no, I'm not going to do that. But the benefit is, I think for my brother and I, we
28:38had a deep
28:38trust had and have right from the beginning. You know, you hear a lot of horror stories about
28:44business partners and the way they treat each other. It becomes all about the money and all that.
28:49I think if you really know and love somebody, you know, even if you don't get along all the time,
28:54you, you know, you, you're going to align on those really important things. And that was one kind of
29:00box. We should, we could check. I never had to look over my shoulder and think,
29:04right. I stealing, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. That's great. But for the record,
29:09you're, you're 90% of the times you're right. And he's wrong, right? 97%.
29:18Okay. Fantastic. Um, all right. And now we'll, uh, move into the quick moving speed round of our
29:26conversations. I'm going to ask you a couple of quick questions. What is a
29:30habit that you are happy to have? And one that you wish you could ditch?
29:34One that I'm happy to have is that, um, as a leader, I've learned through the years that I
29:40don't have to have the answers. What I need to do is listen. Well, uh, listen to others ideas,
29:48ask the right questions. And most of the best ideas haven't come from me through the years. They come
29:54from our staff or friends or anybody, people's kids. You just got to listen. One of the things
30:00I'm forever working on and I don't like it. And I, I wish I could do better is, uh,
30:06I'm not on time. I, I run late. I was on time for you. I was just about to say
30:11you were spot on.
30:12Boom. Well, you know, I'm doing better. I am improving, but like, uh, I don't know. It's just
30:18like a personality trait. It's not that I don't respect people's time. I think time's the most
30:24valuable currency, any of us trade. So I, I do, I just am somewhere in my mind, a bit unrealistic
30:31about time. I think I can accomplish the world in five minutes and it always takes 25.
30:40Exactly. So I wish I could, yeah, those are quick ones that come to mind.
30:43That's great. Well, I don't think you're alone in that one. Everyone thinks, yeah,
30:46I'll do that in five minutes. And you look up in an hour past, like, Oh my God. Um, so
30:51what's,
30:52uh, end of the day, what's a favorite way to turn off your brain, turn off the business brain?
30:58Yeah. I mean, uh, actually shutting down and leaving the phone behind is a really important
31:05one for me. So I've done it today. I, I rode my bicycle to the gym and I didn't even
31:11take my phone
31:11with me. I left it at home and, uh, you know, I, between the ride and being at the gym,
31:17it was two
31:18hours. So actually physically unplugging is most important. And then finally, um, being life is
31:28good. What is something that most people think is good, but you secretly can't stand?
31:35Oh, that's a good one. Uh, most people think is good. Well, I would say like most media,
31:42but it's not true that most people think it's good. Other than yours, dad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
31:52Let's see something that people think is, is, uh, everyone seems to crowd around their phones to
31:58look at and you're like, Oh, I hate that thing. Or I hate that show. I mean, I, I, it
32:02may be
32:03I'm forcing the positive guy to be negative. So I apologize. You know, that's okay. Um, look, I mean,
32:10I, I think we're all aware kind of academically how damaging scrolling can be and how you can kind
32:20of get trapped in these things. Everybody at a high level recognizes that too much time in social
32:27media, et cetera, is not positive and doesn't help move their life forward, but they don't change their
32:33practice. Personally, I don't have any social media. We, we use it all for business, et cetera,
32:39but I don't have any of it. And I'm, you know, I don't need to have a million friends. Nobody
32:44does.
32:45If you have, if you have three good friends, you're rich. You didn't have no one ever going to have
32:51a
32:51million friends. So, you know, what are we trying to do? Well, that's awesome. And I think a perfect
32:58note to end on. So, uh, for people who want to help out, help the cause, support what you're
33:06doing, is the website, the best place for them to go? Yeah. Just go to lifeisgood.com. And, uh,
33:12the Playmaker Project is the name of the nonprofit. And it's really clear how you can donate a few
33:18dollars or volunteer to help. And we would love your help any which way. Awesome, man. Well, so
33:24great talking to you. Uh, so, uh, I love so much what your, what your mission is, what you've
33:30accomplished and what you continue to do. So, uh, really grateful to have good people like you out
33:35there in the world doing good things. Hey, thanks, Dan. You keep doing your good things too.
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