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00:06I remember there was one time when I went up to the flat just before I was going home
00:11about 11 o'clock at night and said right I'm off now and I wish I'd done dozens of times
00:16before
00:16and I've got no idea why but I walked to the door over here and I got to the door
00:23which was open
00:25and I stood at the door and I turned around and I looked at him and I think he thought
00:32I'd gone
00:34and I can just remember thinking it was an absolute picture of isolation
00:43and he just he had a sense of burden and weight
00:49and because at that stage so many people saw him in the way that they did Tony Blyer all that
00:55stuff
00:57I actually it was one of those moments when I wished I could paint
01:01it was an absolute portrait in the kind of isolation of power
01:08did you feel any urge to either say something or put an arm around him
01:12no I didn't I just walked out
01:14I
01:15I
01:17I
01:18I
01:18I
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01:19I
01:20I
01:43I
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02:12Transcription by CastingWords
02:43Transcription by CastingWords
02:44One-on-one, oh, interesting, almost out of the blue.
02:48We get on the plane, we get picked up by a helicopter,
02:51we get taken to this place God knows where.
02:54Amazing sort of luxury that he's living in by now.
03:07And we had a dinner where Putin absolutely laid into it.
03:14OK, where are the Americans going next, though?
03:15Where are they going to war next?
03:17Oh, they haven't told you yet.
03:18They'll tell you, and then he'll do it.
03:21And it was nasty, it was cynical.
03:24He didn't use the phrase Bush's poodle,
03:26but that was kind of what he was saying.
03:28It was really quite vicious.
03:32How did Tony respond?
03:34He sort of sat there, took it,
03:38then just explained to him why he thought he was wrong.
03:40No doubt there will be discussions ahead of us
03:43in order to make sure that we can resolve
03:45any remaining difficulties or issues
03:48that there are in the international community.
03:50But I would like to thank the President once again
03:52for the constructive and immensely friendly atmosphere
03:55in which these talks were conducted.
04:09Back home, Tony Blair has a problem.
04:12He wants to move on from the Iraq war,
04:15continue his reforms to the United Kingdom
04:18and win another general election.
04:24I want us to win a third term,
04:26not so that we can go in the history books,
04:29but so that we can consign Britain's failings
04:32to the history books.
04:33That's why we want it.
04:36But moving on from the war is proving to be difficult.
04:43That's fine, sir, you can make your protests.
04:46Just thank goodness we live in a democracy and you can.
04:50The Iraq war shattered the Blair Coalition,
04:54so it was never glad, confident, morning again.
04:57We'd gone through a long period
04:58where Tony Blair was a very trusted individual.
05:01And once that trust was lost,
05:04a lot of people lost faith
05:05in what government was telling them.
05:10As the war on terror continues
05:12and stories keep on emerging from Iraq,
05:15it proves impossible to draw a line under it.
05:30An American television network
05:32has shown disturbing photographs
05:34taken by one US soldier,
05:36which appear to show others abusing Iraqi prisoners.
05:46Just tell me what you felt
05:48when you saw those images
05:49of hooded prisoners in Abu Ghraib.
05:52No, of course, I was appalled whenever you see...
05:54Appalled by the fact of it
05:56and appalled by the stupidity of it.
05:58In war, bad things are going to happen.
06:03But our attempt there to stabilise the country,
06:07I mean, that's an ambition
06:08that was a perfectly good one.
06:10What about the fact
06:10that it was official US policy
06:13to have a form of torture?
06:16Well, I never agreed with torture.
06:18And at any point in time
06:19where it was ever erased with me,
06:20I always said,
06:21I'm opposed to this.
06:22I'm opposed to it on moral grounds.
06:24I'm opposed to it on grounds of effectiveness.
06:27I have never been in favour of it
06:28and I never was at the time.
06:30And I made it clear
06:31that we should say to the Americans
06:32we were not in favour of it.
06:41Blair is also having problems
06:43with Gordon Brown,
06:45a decade after Brown agreed
06:47to support Blair's bid
06:48to become Labour leader.
06:55Tony was increasingly exasperated
06:57with the impatience
07:00that Gordon Brown had
07:02to be Prime Minister.
07:04Obviously wanting to take over
07:06when Tony stood down,
07:07but when was Tony going to stand down?
07:09And a lot of those people
07:11who were supporting Gordon Brown
07:12were getting increasingly impatient.
07:15Ten years is a very long time
07:17in any job.
07:18Has there been any point
07:19when you've thought about moving on?
07:23No.
07:25So there you are.
07:27Did you ever see him
07:28sort of crack or crumble
07:29a little bit
07:30in the privacy of,
07:31as it were,
07:32your bedroom or the flat?
07:34There were plenty of times,
07:36I think,
07:37when he would feel,
07:40have I done the right thing?
07:42He wouldn't be human
07:44if he didn't find that difficult.
07:47And the constant drip, drip, drip
07:51of Gordon's pressure.
07:53There was a point when he thought,
07:56you know,
07:56maybe I should stand down.
07:58What did you say?
07:59No.
08:01I was absolutely against that.
08:05I said to him,
08:06of course,
08:07if you want to stand down,
08:08you must stand down.
08:09But do you really think
08:11that Gordon is the right person
08:13to take over from you
08:17because I don't think you do
08:19and therefore I don't do it?
08:26People say there's always tension
08:28between Number 10 and the Chancellor,
08:29but there was this extra dimension
08:31in this case.
08:32The deal was supposed to be
08:34that they wouldn't fight each other
08:38and that Tony would hand over to Gordon.
08:40and that became
08:43a sort of despoiling element
08:45in the government
08:45as Tony went on and on and on.
08:54It was not an easy campaign.
09:01The days of sort of standing on a soapbox
09:03and just talking to an adoring gathering
09:05had gone.
09:06We've had Mr Kennedy in that chair,
09:07we've had Mr Howard in that chair.
09:09Why wouldn't you debate directly
09:10face-to-face with them in the...
09:20I debate every week
09:21in the House of Commons
09:22with Michael Howard.
09:23I'm here to answer questions tonight
09:25and I probably do more discussions,
09:30not just with audiences like this,
09:32but with people when we talk about the issues
09:35than any politician before me.
09:37Howard!
09:37All right.
09:38Mr Blair, Mr Blair, thank you.
09:40What got to Tony, however,
09:43was when people who were really close to him
09:47started saying to him,
09:48you know,
09:49trust is draining away,
09:51people don't believe you
09:52in the way that they did.
09:55All this being fostered,
09:59generated,
09:59but people who wanted him to go.
10:02I told him,
10:03just get up off your knees.
10:06Don't be apologetic.
10:08Stop being a supplicant.
10:09Be a leader.
10:10Go out there
10:10and be confident and fight.
10:13After years of bad blood and distrust,
10:16Tony Blair, since last week,
10:17has rarely ventured a few yards
10:19from the Chancellor's side.
10:21Despite the ongoing tensions
10:23between the two men,
10:24Blair and Brown put on a united front
10:26during the campaign.
10:28You must have seen more of him
10:29in the last five days
10:30than in the last five years.
10:31I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.
10:34Your wives must be beginning
10:35to wonder something's going on.
10:37When we are together,
10:39it emphasizes the importance,
10:40not just the unity of the government,
10:42but also the importance
10:42of the unity of that message.
10:44You get my physics, did you?
10:45Well, Tony Blair is a trusted leader
10:47internationally,
10:48respected around the world,
10:49and he has led the major reforms
10:51that have been brought about
10:52in this country,
10:53including the reforms in economic policy
10:55that we're talking about today.
11:03Britain has decided,
11:04and we are predicting,
11:06that Tony Blair has won a third term,
11:08but with a sharply reduced majority of 66,
11:11making the Prime Minister
11:12the first ever Labour leader
11:13to win three elections in a row.
11:16It felt a much more tense night.
11:19He wasn't joyous in the same way.
11:21Did he feel vulnerable?
11:23I mean, he's still Prime Minister,
11:24he wins, but...
11:25No, he felt vulnerable.
11:26He felt vulnerable.
11:27I think he felt that things were turning.
11:29I think he felt, you know,
11:30and they were.
11:32On these results,
11:33I would have thought,
11:34not Gordon Brown himself,
11:35but the Brown supporters
11:36will be wondering
11:38how quickly they can move
11:39Tony Blair out of Downing Street.
11:43He is clearly a liability,
11:45and I fear for the future,
11:47unless he ceases to be the leader of the party.
11:52After the 2005 election,
11:54there was a kind of sourness
11:55amongst Labour MPs.
11:57As if to say,
11:58oh, well,
11:58Tony's won,
11:59that's what you expect of Tony,
12:00whereas, in fact,
12:01it was...
12:01This guy's a genius.
12:03It may be other things as well,
12:04but absolute genius.
12:05Brilliant at winning elections.
12:08I think hubris kicked in.
12:10Ego's the disease of politics.
12:12I mean,
12:13people are...
12:13That's why you have to change,
12:15you know,
12:15presidents and leaders
12:16and not hang on forever.
12:18You know,
12:19if you have absolute power,
12:22it goes to your head
12:23and you think
12:23you're the fount of all wisdom.
12:24They all say you're brilliant,
12:26and you start thinking you're brilliant.
12:30After Iraq,
12:31because it was such a difficult decision
12:34and the aftermath
12:35was so traumatic in many ways,
12:39you know,
12:39there was bound to be a reduction
12:41in my capacity to persuade people.
12:44What there wasn't
12:45was a reduction in my ability
12:48to do the things
12:49I really wanted to do.
12:50You know,
12:50the irony is
12:51you start as a politician
12:53at your most popular,
12:56but least capable,
12:57and then you end
12:58at your most capable
12:59but least popular.
13:00So, yes,
13:01I was conscious of the fact
13:03I was much less able
13:04to persuade people,
13:05but I was also
13:06much more confident
13:07about the direction
13:08I was taking the country in.
13:16With power slipping away,
13:18Blair wants to use
13:19what time he has
13:21to make as much difference
13:22as possible.
13:37Blair chooses
13:38the agenda
13:39for the leaders
13:40of the world
13:40to discuss.
13:50Blair chooses
13:51cancelling the debt
13:52of the world's
13:53poorest countries
13:54and for them all
13:56to admit
13:56the truth
13:57of climate change.
14:00It was probably
14:01the most extraordinary
14:0248 hours I had
14:03in politics.
14:05We tried to do
14:06something completely
14:06different
14:07with what was then
14:08the G8,
14:09and I really used
14:10every bit
14:12of last credibility
14:13and influence
14:16with the Americans
14:17in order to do it.
14:18It was very tense
14:19because, first of all,
14:21I don't think
14:22the Americans
14:22really wanted
14:23that agenda,
14:25and secondly,
14:26because Russia
14:26was there
14:27and already
14:28things were becoming
14:29somewhat fractured
14:30with the Russian leadership.
14:34So, it was going
14:35to be a very,
14:36very tall ask.
14:38If we cancel debt,
14:40we will save
14:41thousands of lives
14:42every day
14:43and millions of lives
14:45in the future.
14:50with the summit
14:51underway,
14:52Blair is hoping
14:53for another boost.
14:59Right, good morning,
15:00everyone.
15:01You know the issues
15:02that are there,
15:03Africa and climate change.
15:06Thank you for your leadership.
15:08This is going to be
15:09a successful summit.
15:11Thousands of people
15:12have gathered
15:13in central London
15:14to hear the result
15:15of the 2012 Olympic bid.
15:17The games
15:18of the 30th Olympiad
15:19in 2012
15:21are awarded
15:23to the city
15:24of London.
15:32Prime Minister,
15:34Trafalgar Square
15:34is listening right now.
15:36Is there anything
15:36you have to say
15:37to the people of London
15:38at this moment?
15:39Well done.
15:40Make 24
15:42the greatest games
15:43the world's ever seen.
15:55Blair arrives
15:56to put the finishing touches
15:57to a deal
15:59that writes off
15:59the debt
16:00of the world's
16:01poorest countries
16:02and properly
16:03recognises climate change.
16:30four Islamist terrorists
16:33have detonated
16:34suicide bombs
16:35in London
16:36killing 52 people.
16:41I always remember
16:42he took a moment
16:44to go outside
16:46by himself
16:47and stand
16:49and reflect.
17:06there seems to be a link
17:08between the invasion
17:09of Iraq
17:10and a greater risk
17:11of terrorist activity
17:12in Britain.
17:13The fact is
17:14what they're doing
17:15is utterly evil
17:17and you can't compromise
17:18with it
17:19you've got to pull it
17:20up by its root.
17:23You could see
17:25that there were moments
17:26of extreme pressure
17:27especially when he was
17:28making momentous decisions
17:30especially ones
17:30involving human lives.
17:32Dad's always had this habit
17:33of you'd be talking
17:34to him about something
17:34and he'll zone out
17:36and think about
17:36something completely different
17:37and you would see
17:38the kind of zone out
17:39moments ratchet up
17:41as more was
17:42on his shoulders.
17:44You know,
17:44he really cared
17:45if he saw it
17:46affecting us as well
17:46so I think
17:47we were quite careful
17:48to make sure
17:48it didn't affect us.
17:50Or at least
17:50not show it.
17:51Right, right.
17:52There was almost
17:52this shared
17:53mutual understanding
17:54that we would never
17:56let him see it
17:57affect us too much
17:58and he would never
17:58let us see it
18:00affect him too much.
18:12Blair knows
18:13that there are
18:14Labour MPs
18:15who want him
18:15to stand down
18:16but there's still
18:17fight left in him
18:19as he takes on
18:20a little known
18:21UKIP MEP.
18:23I thought,
18:24crikey,
18:25perhaps Blair's
18:26going to do it,
18:26perhaps he really is
18:27going to reform
18:28and change
18:28but no,
18:30under your presidency
18:31there have been
18:323,350 new
18:34legislative acts.
18:36Total failure
18:37on economic reform.
18:38Let me just tell
18:39you sir
18:40and your colleagues
18:43you sit
18:44with our country's flag
18:45you do not
18:46represent our country's
18:48interests.
18:55this is the year 2005,
18:58not 1945.
19:00We're not fighting
19:01each other anymore.
19:02These are our partners,
19:04they're our colleagues
19:04and our future
19:05lies in Europe.
19:13But Blair is finally
19:15about to lose power
19:16and it's not
19:17the British electorate
19:18who force him out,
19:19it's his own party.
19:22The polling
19:23was saying
19:24that with Tony Blair
19:26as Prime Minister
19:27we were in trouble.
19:30Gordon was the most
19:32popular politician
19:33in Britain
19:33for about a decade.
19:35People really
19:36respected him
19:36and he had almost
19:38single-handedly
19:39turned around
19:40Labour's
19:41long-standing
19:42reputation
19:43for screwing up
19:44the economy.
19:46Many of those
19:47plotting Blair's
19:48downfall
19:49are allies
19:50of the Chancellor.
19:51I was saying
19:53to him
19:53you need
19:54to make space
19:55for others
19:57than Gordon
19:58to come forward
20:00and he would
20:01always say to me
20:02I cannot choose
20:03my successor
20:04and I would say
20:06by not doing that
20:08you are effectively
20:09choosing Gordon.
20:10Do you think
20:10he made a mistake?
20:12I do.
20:14What did you make
20:15of the accusation
20:16that you were
20:17a sort of
20:17Lady Macbeth figure?
20:23I think
20:24really?
20:27I thought
20:28that was a joke.
20:30I thought
20:31it was Gordon
20:31who described me
20:32as Lady Macbeth.
20:33If anyone thinks
20:34Tony's my puppet
20:35they just don't
20:36understand the nature
20:37of the man.
20:44He's on a visit
20:45to York
20:45when an advisor
20:46pulls him aside.
20:48They tell him
20:49that MPs
20:50are coming forward
20:51with letters
20:52calling for him
20:53to resign.
20:56Prime Minister,
20:57some of your most
20:57people who owe you
20:58people who owe you
20:58their career
20:59and want you to resign.
21:00What's your response
21:00to them?
21:04He brought his closest
21:06people together
21:07and worked out
21:09what he needed to do
21:10to respond.
21:12Who were his allies?
21:13Where were the people
21:14that he could activate
21:15on his behalf?
21:17Who was going to do that?
21:18So it became a sort of
21:19a mini sort of war plan.
21:21There were people saying
21:24ride it out
21:25but in the end
21:27there was a realization
21:28that he couldn't
21:31fight it anymore.
21:37His head recognized
21:41that he had run out of road.
21:44I'm not sure his heart
21:46ever accepted that.
21:48As for my
21:51timing and date
21:52of departure
21:53I would have preferred
21:54to do this in my own way
21:55but as has been
21:57pretty obvious
22:00from what many
22:01of my Cabinet
22:02colleagues have said
22:03earlier in the week.
22:06The next party conference
22:07in a couple of weeks
22:08will be my last party conference
22:10as party leader.
22:12Tell me a bit
22:13about you
22:15and Gordon Brown.
22:16You know
22:16we were much more
22:18than just
22:19friends.
22:20We were
22:22deep political partners
22:24and
22:25for the best part
22:27of ten years
22:27it was quite a long time
22:29we would be talking
22:31several times a day
22:33and then you put
22:33all the stresses
22:35and strains of government
22:36I mean if you think about it
22:37it was a miracle
22:38we lasted ten years
22:39but we did
22:40and I always say to people
22:42because people often say to me
22:43you know
22:44would it not have been better
22:45to have got rid of Gordon
22:45and so on
22:46and you know
22:47you can make an argument
22:48for that
22:48but I think
22:51those three
22:51election victories
22:54which were the only time
22:56Labour ever won
22:56three consecutive
22:57election victories
22:58with a full functioning
23:00majority
23:01I think
23:02they were because
23:03we were new Labour
23:04but I also think
23:05in part
23:05they were because
23:06that partnership
23:07was there with him.
23:11Blair has overseen
23:13ten years
23:13of economic prosperity
23:15while at the same time
23:17transforming many aspects
23:18of British society
23:20there's a huge legacy
23:22and it covers many
23:24many many different areas
23:25Bank of England
23:25Independence
23:26New Deal
23:27Schools and Hospitals
23:28Investment
23:29Gay Rights
23:30Scottish Parliament
23:31Minimum Wage
23:35Now
23:35just as he leaves office
23:37he is confronting
23:38the reality
23:39of life without power
23:42By the time
23:43he was leaving
23:44Number 10
23:44he really finally
23:46understood
23:46how to make
23:48the whole thing work
23:49and at that point
23:50when perhaps
23:51he felt
23:52he could do
23:53even more
23:54he had to stand back
23:56Prime Minister's
23:57private staff
23:58had organised
24:00a sort of
24:01do
24:02which was meant
24:03as a sort of
24:04thank you
24:05celebration
24:08With Blair's
24:09leaving drinks
24:10underway upstairs
24:11Blair and Brown
24:12meet downstairs
24:13in the corridor
24:18It's finally time
24:19for Blair
24:20to hand over
24:20the role
24:21of Prime Minister
24:22and he can't help
24:24but give Gordon's
24:25speech
24:25the once over
24:43It's been an honour
24:44to serve
24:45a privilege
24:46to work in this building
24:47thank you very much
24:48indeed
24:51It didn't really
24:53work
24:54He suddenly realised
24:56it's over
24:58and
25:00that hurt
25:12And then
25:12we made our way
25:14downstairs
25:14and we gathered
25:15our stuff
25:16as Gordon
25:18Brian's people
25:18came in
25:19that way
25:20passing us
25:20Matthew come down
25:27Ten years in power
25:28your dad
25:29leaves office
25:29Did you get a sense
25:31that that was
25:31difficult for him?
25:33Yes
25:33Yes
25:34and definitely
25:36a sense of
25:37unfinished business
25:41There you are
25:42a seven year old
25:43Yeah
25:44Do you remember
25:44anything about that day?
25:45I remember being very sad
25:46I wasn't just
25:47leaving the house
25:49I was in
25:49I was leaving
25:49everybody else
25:50who I'd grown up with
25:51who was there
25:51all the people
25:52that worked there
25:53who had been like
25:53you know
25:54kind of raised me
25:55collectively
25:56I don't know
25:56it might sound a bit weird
25:57but it is really like that
25:58when you see people
25:59every day
25:59from a very young age
26:01Both my mum and I
26:02were trying to hold back tears
26:04I think my mum
26:05made a sarcastic comment
26:06as she left
26:06didn't she?
26:07To the press
26:07To the press
26:13What did you think
26:13of the press?
26:16I hated the press
26:18They were particularly
26:18horrible to my mum
26:19They obviously
26:21don't like strong women
26:22Really
26:22I think if someone
26:23today told me
26:24they work for the Daily Mail
26:24I'd probably turn around
26:25and walk in the other direction
26:29Your skill as a politician
26:30is about knowing
26:32about the people
26:33and living with the people
26:34and understanding
26:35what the people want
26:36Ten years of living
26:37in the goldfish bowl
26:38you kind of lose contact
26:40with reality
26:44He didn't really bring on
26:45a generation
26:46to carry on
26:48his revolution
26:49He was singular
26:50in that sense
26:51It was just him
26:53and the way that he left
26:55gave one an impression
26:56that it had always
26:57really just been about him
26:59That being Prime Minister
27:00was merely a stage
27:01on his career journey
27:04And he left a void
27:05in politics
27:06that was never really filled
27:10That is the problem
27:11with charismatic politicians
27:15Once the charisma is gone
27:18there's just a bit of smoke left
27:20and a faint memory of light
27:22and the stage is empty
27:33So you were forced out
27:35as you've put it
27:36of the biggest job in your life
27:39when you were 54
27:42How did that feel?
27:43You see, I knew I was going to go
27:47I'd had more than 10 years in the job
27:52I was literally thinking about
27:53what's the future
27:54I mean, some people said to me
27:56you should take six months off
27:57you should go and, you know
28:00go and sit somewhere
28:01read books
28:01and, you know, contemplate life
28:03I was literally not interested
28:04in that for a moment
28:14On his first afternoon
28:17not being Prime Minister
28:18he takes the train
28:20up to the northeast of England
28:23back to Sedgefield
28:26and he arrives back
28:28at Darlington train station
28:31and there's no one there
28:35So the official car is gone
28:39All of that he has got used to
28:41over the previous 10 years
28:43The British state just turns it off
28:48He is left
28:49on Darlington train station
28:51waiting
29:00And I think that sort of
29:01certain jolting change
29:03to your power and status
29:05is sort of captured in that moment
29:12It's quite a frightening thing
29:14to know that you're going
29:15from having
29:19one of the most important jobs
29:20jobs in the country
29:23to walking out
29:26into the world
29:28and
29:30nothing
29:33But no red box this morning
29:35No red box, yes
29:36that was strange
29:44This will be a new government
29:47with new priorities
29:49and now let the work of change
29:51begin
29:52Thank you
30:01Not only has he given up
30:03being Prime Minister
30:05He's giving up his seat
30:06in the House of Commons
30:08It's time to pack up
30:09his constituency house
30:11This is just
30:12I mean
30:12The thing is
30:13it's one thing
30:14to
30:15to change a job
30:17but then you change a job
30:18you move house
30:18at the same time
30:19Those are apparently
30:20the two most stressful
30:20things you ever do
30:22and
30:24I'm doing both
30:25at the same time
30:26An American politician
30:28said that losing high office
30:30is like the end
30:30of a love affair
30:32and
30:33the thing about love affairs
30:34when you're out of one
30:34you shouldn't go too quickly
30:35into the next one
30:36and
30:37I think Tony was
30:39scared is the wrong word
30:41but worried
30:41at the idea
30:43that he'd have
30:43an empty diary
30:48With the help
30:48of the Americans
30:49Blair gets the job
30:51as envoy
30:52to the Middle East
30:54He wants to improve
30:55the situation
30:56between Israel
30:57and the Palestinians
31:00So what does it feel like
31:01being pitched into
31:02one of the most
31:03intractable
31:03conflicts in the world
31:06It's hugely challenging
31:08but there's nothing
31:09more important
31:11in the world today
31:12than to get
31:13this issue
31:14sorted out
31:15in a different place
31:16Hello there
31:18He was a genuine
31:20statesman
31:20which is more than
31:21can be said
31:22for most of his
31:23successors
31:23but on the other hand
31:24what he could not see
31:26was how grievously
31:27he was morally
31:28compromised
31:29by the Iraq War
31:31about all the fallout
31:32from that
31:33Hello
31:34Good to see you
31:36This is Yuval Steinitz
31:37who is the head of
31:38Hello there
31:39He's never been good
31:40at seeing himself
31:42as others see him
31:43So where would you like
31:44to...
31:44Shall we sit down
31:44here?
31:45Do you want me
31:45to take my tie off
31:46then if you...
31:47If you were good
31:48and casual
31:48yeah
31:50But Blair is a statesman
31:51without a state
31:52and alongside
31:54his role
31:54in the Middle East
31:55he establishes
31:56several foundations
31:58for which he starts
31:59raising money
32:01No previous Labour
32:02Prime Minister
32:03has ever gone after
32:03money like he did
32:05and he went to
32:05some very disreputable
32:07countries
32:07I think it was all
32:09because he wanted
32:10to be left
32:10with a big legacy
32:11and a big reputation
32:12and he didn't want
32:13to finish with Iraq
32:15Iraq was failure
32:16but then he wanted
32:18to build another story
32:19of him as a great
32:20leader and thinker
32:21and that's why
32:22he threw himself
32:23into raising
32:24all this money
32:28The amount of money
32:29that Prime Minister
32:29has paid
32:30is ludicrous
32:30in this country
32:31to pay them
32:32quite so little
32:32and if you had
32:33a political career
32:34as an MP etc
32:36by comparison
32:37of an ordinary person
32:37yes you're paid well
32:38but by comparison
32:39with their contemporaries
32:40from university
32:41the people
32:42they compare themselves
32:42with
32:43they feel very poor
32:44it's the same
32:44with civil servants
32:45so when they come out
32:46they want to make money
32:47and that's
32:47I think
32:48Tony is just
32:48very competitive
32:49he wants to make
32:49more money
32:50than else
32:50in office
32:52Blair tried
32:53to persuade
32:53some of the world's
32:54most controversial
32:55regimes
32:56to move closer
32:57to the west
32:58and he still
32:59believes he can
33:06which takes him
33:07to Kazakhstan
33:08advising
33:09President Nazarbayev
33:11a dictator
33:12known to have
33:13repressed
33:13his own people
33:20you advise some pretty
33:22unsavoury characters
33:23do you think
33:24that was a mistake
33:25so the advisory work
33:27we were doing
33:28for example
33:29in Kazakhstan
33:30was advisory work
33:31that was completely
33:32in line with what
33:33the World Bank
33:34was doing there
33:34other consultancies
33:36and foundations
33:37were doing there
33:37but anyway
33:38it was a complete mistake
33:39because
33:39to do the for profit
33:42in that way
33:43because it looked like
33:44it was all to do
33:45with personal gain
33:46when actually
33:47it really wasn't
33:48it was to do
33:49with creating
33:51enough funding
33:51that we could start
33:53the institute
33:53and if you want to do
33:54something
33:55you've got to raise money
33:56but money is never pure
33:59well money's money
34:00it just allows you
34:01to do things
34:02if you leave office
34:03in your early 50s
34:05and many people
34:07will now
34:07and you've got maybe
34:09I don't know
34:10maybe 20, 30 years
34:11of active life
34:12in front of you
34:12what are you going to do
34:13if you're the sort of person
34:14that became prime minister
34:15you're not going to want
34:16to go off and
34:16play rounds of golf
34:18all day
34:18and certainly
34:19that's not what
34:20I would ever want to do
34:21so you know
34:22you're going to want
34:22to create something
34:23but if you want
34:24to create something
34:25I'm afraid you need money
34:27when Blair publishes
34:29his autobiography
34:30he donates
34:31the 4.6 million pound advance
34:34to the Royal British Legion
34:35but even the launch
34:37of his book
34:38proves controversial
34:39the first stop
34:41on his book tour
34:42is Dublin
34:57he then cancels
34:58his book launch
34:59in London
35:00and it looks like
35:01he may never shake off
35:02the legacy
35:03of the Iraq war
35:09you will remember
35:10the portrait
35:11that was painted
35:11of you
35:12by Jonathan Yeo
35:13I believe
35:15where the only real
35:16bit of colour
35:17is the poppy
35:18what did you think
35:19when you saw that
35:21thought it was a good
35:22painting
35:25significance
35:25of the poppy
35:26yeah of course
35:27it was bound
35:29to be seen
35:29in the context
35:30of the war
35:30and so on
35:31but I thought
35:32it was a good picture
35:34a portrait
35:35is in some ways
35:36meant to summarise
35:36someone
35:37did it do that
35:38with you
35:39you decide
35:40whether
35:40I mean
35:42I'm not interested
35:43in that
35:44type of stuff
35:44I mean
35:45if people want
35:46to say
35:47that's all
35:47it was about
35:48and there would be
35:49plenty of people
35:49on the right
35:50and plenty of people
35:50on the left
35:51who want to say
35:51that was all
35:52he ever did
35:52was take the country
35:53to war
35:54post 9-11
35:55fine they can say that
35:56it really doesn't
35:57worry me
35:58you've got to understand
35:59I have enough belief
36:01in what I've done
36:02and what I'm doing now
36:03that if people
36:04want to do that
36:05which by the way
36:06is for political reasons
36:08because
36:09I can't think
36:10of another British
36:11Prime Minister
36:11that wouldn't have
36:11also wanted to be
36:12with America
36:13post 9-11
36:13but anyway
36:14leave that to one side
36:15if people want
36:16to make that
36:17the only thing
36:17they think about
36:18when they think about me
36:19that's up to them
36:21you have to understand
36:22it's not going to
36:24determine
36:25my view
36:25of what I've done
36:26or what I'm doing now
36:27I will have that
36:28debate with people
36:29I'm very happy
36:30to have it with people
36:31but you know
36:32there's no point
36:32in keeping asking me
36:34the same thing
36:35around you know
36:36or someone paints
36:37a portrait of you
36:38you know
36:38what do you feel
36:39when you look at it
36:40and I actually felt
36:41it was a really good
36:42portrait
36:42it was the most
36:43important thing
36:44I thought
36:45this series
36:46is going to reflect
36:47the successes
36:48of your project
36:50but it has to touch
36:52on these other things
36:53I understand that
36:53Michael
36:53I'm not
36:53I'm not
36:55the reason I push
36:56back hard
36:58it's because
37:01you know
37:01I feel it's got to be
37:02pushed back hard
37:03against
37:03because of course
37:04it's what a lot
37:05of people say
37:05and you know
37:06this is a programme
37:07about me
37:08and so
37:09I'm entitled
37:10to my view
37:10and I want to
37:11express my view
37:12you know
37:12you ask me a lot
37:13about Iraq
37:14and everything
37:14but I always say
37:15to people
37:15that we did
37:16an immense amount
37:16of good things
37:17and this country
37:18on the day I left
37:19in June 2007
37:20was a strong
37:21capable country
37:23and in my view
37:24and I'm entitled
37:25to it
37:25as people are
37:26entitled to their view
37:26if we'd stuck
37:27with that
37:28strong centre-ground
37:30government
37:31and we hadn't
37:32got into
37:33the mess
37:34we've got into
37:35as a country
37:35we would be
37:36in a much more
37:37powerful position
37:38today
37:4810 years
37:49after losing
37:50power
37:51and Blair's
37:52aims for the
37:53Labour Party
37:53Britain
37:54and the world
37:55seem to be
37:57collapsing
38:02Jeremy Corbyn
38:03who campaigned
38:04against the
38:05Iraq War
38:06is Labour
38:07leader
38:07don't let those
38:08people who wish
38:09us ill divide us
38:11stay together
38:12strong and united
38:13for the kind of
38:14world we want
38:15to live in
38:15thank you very much
38:16Nigel Farage
38:18the once minor
38:19MEP
38:19helps take Britain
38:21out of Europe
38:23let June the 23rd
38:25go down
38:25in our history
38:27as our
38:28Independence Day
38:30I mean if you
38:31told me that
38:31Nigel Farage
38:32was going to be
38:33a key player
38:33in British politics
38:34and Jeremy Corbyn
38:35was going to lead
38:35the Labour Party
38:36I would have said
38:37that's never
38:38going to happen
38:38but I was wrong
38:40both did happen
38:46and the new
38:47world order
38:47is crumbling
38:49Putin will later
38:50cite the Iraq War
38:52as one of the
38:53justifications
38:54for his invasion
38:55of Ukraine
38:57tell me about
38:58your perspective
38:58on Putin's
38:59character
39:00the question
39:01you always ask
39:02yourself is
39:02was he always
39:04as he became
39:05when I just
39:06didn't see it
39:07or did he change
39:07or did he change
39:08and my viewers
39:10that he did change
39:10but you know
39:11who knows
39:14a huge part
39:15of what
39:16you fought for
39:17has frankly
39:19crumbled
39:20since you left power
39:21has that been
39:22difficult to watch
39:24look people
39:25in these last years
39:27have moved against
39:28some of the things
39:29I stood for
39:30you know
39:31you know
39:31you know
39:31belief that
39:31globalisation
39:32was basically
39:33a positive
39:34process
39:34that we needed
39:35to manage
39:37Britain being
39:38in Europe
39:39liberal interventionism
39:41yeah we should all
39:42just disengage
39:43yeah
39:45people have moved
39:46against it
39:47but
39:49you know
39:50I remain committed
39:50to those things
39:51and I think
39:52again you've got
39:53to think
39:54you know
39:54history
39:55history's not static
39:56it changes
39:56and people will
39:58I think
39:58come in time
39:59to realise
40:00there's
40:01you know
40:02there are merits
40:03in the position
40:04that
40:06that I took
40:12his sense of himself
40:14is that he is
40:15a man of the future
40:17yes
40:18he believes
40:19that progress
40:20is real
40:20and that history
40:21is moving
40:22in a direction
40:23from
40:23bad to good
40:25from dark
40:26to light
40:27do you mind
40:27just giving me
40:28some level please
40:29my name's Tony Blair
40:30I'll speak round
40:31about this level
40:31thank you
40:32I think there is
40:33a sense of him
40:34being this kind
40:35of tragic character
40:37but in the kind
40:38of original
40:39kind of Greek
40:40tragic sense
40:41of battling
40:42against a fate
40:43trying to shape
40:44the world
40:45into the kind
40:46of world
40:47that he wants
40:47into a liberal
40:49international
40:51democratic
40:52world order
40:53and this was
40:54what Blairite
40:54Britain represented
40:55Britain was going
40:56to be the beacon
40:57of this world
40:58and it just kind
40:59of collapses
41:00into something
41:01that is completely
41:03different to that
41:04world that he imagined
41:06but yet he still
41:07holds on to the idea
41:08that he can see
41:09the future
41:11but just at that
41:12low point
41:13things start to
41:14turn around
41:15for Blair
41:16he sets up
41:17a new organisation
41:18the Tony Blair
41:19Institute
41:20for Global Change
41:21we speak
41:22every morning
41:23sometime between
41:25half past five
41:26and half past six
41:27we're trying to grow
41:28something that's going
41:28to outlive him
41:31Blair personally
41:32advises world leaders
41:33and his institute
41:35pumps out policy papers
41:36coming to prominence
41:38during the pandemic
41:39when COVID first hit
41:41Tony and I decided
41:43we were going to pivot
41:43the entire organisation
41:45to work on COVID
41:46because we knew
41:47every single leader
41:49we worked with
41:49across the world
41:50was going to be
41:51grappling with this issue
41:52good morning
41:53how are you doing
41:54Blair becomes an early
41:56proponent of mass testing
41:59and his strategy
42:00for vaccinations
42:01is adopted by governments
42:03across the world
42:04it was the Tony Blair
42:05Institute
42:06which seemed to be
42:07ahead of the government
42:08you suddenly started
42:09to see
42:10Prime Ministers
42:11going to see
42:13Tony Blair
42:13or asking Tony Blair
42:14to come in
42:15to number 10
42:16Liz Truss saw him
42:17Boris Johnson saw him
42:19Akir Starmer
42:20certainly saw him
42:21before he became
42:22Prime Minister
42:23this is the kind
42:24of influence
42:25that he has managed
42:26to build for himself
42:27Blair's institute
42:29employs over 900 people
42:31working in more
42:32than 40 countries
42:34do you have as much
42:35power and influence
42:36now as you did
42:37in number 10?
42:38so I don't have
42:39as much power
42:40as I did when I was
42:41Prime Minister
42:42but influence
42:42to a degree
42:46many of Blair's
42:47old allies
42:48found their way
42:49back to power
42:52his chief of staff
42:54Jonathan Powell
42:55is Britain's
42:56national security
42:57advisor
43:00and until recently
43:03Peter Mandelson
43:04was Britain's
43:05ambassador
43:05to the United States
43:06and thank you
43:07very much
43:08indeed also
43:09for that
43:10very typical
43:1111th hour
43:12intervention
43:13by you
43:14with your phone call
43:15to the president
43:16do you think
43:17there's a small part
43:18of him
43:19that would rather
43:20like your job?
43:23I'm not sure
43:24that Tony Blair
43:25is quite ready
43:26to become
43:26a mere ambassador
43:27but he'd certainly
43:29want to exercise
43:30influence over the
43:31person who was
43:32actually doing it
43:41and Blair
43:41is still
43:42in the frame
43:44when it comes
43:45to trying
43:46to bring peace
43:46to the Middle East
44:02even 18 years
44:04after leaving power
44:05Tony Blair
44:08still provokes
44:09a kaleidoscopic
44:10range of opinions
44:13as we sit here
44:15with all that's
44:17going on
44:17I look back
44:20I think he was
44:21an integral part
44:22of a golden age
44:24in Britain
44:24which I think
44:25a lot of people
44:26would wish
44:27we were now
44:27back on
44:28because we sure
44:29ain't in a golden age
44:30today
44:35there are still
44:36many people
44:37who hate him
44:38often the people
44:39who used to
44:40love him most
44:43he was a
44:44formidable figure
44:45brought down
44:46by some of the
44:47very qualities
44:48that had taken
44:48him to the top
44:50the tragedy
44:51for Tony Blair
44:52if there is to be
44:53one may well be
44:54that his achievements
44:55are blotted out
44:57by the mistake
44:58that's unacknowledged
45:00that
45:01that is a tragedy
45:06I know
45:07there are some people
45:08who absolutely
45:08despise the guy
45:09there are some people
45:09who celebrate the day
45:10he dies
45:10but I think
45:11Northern Ireland
45:12alone
45:13puts him in the top
45:14rank of British
45:15prime ministers
45:16he's a big historic
45:17figure
45:17his strength is all
45:19the communication
45:19and charm
45:20and he's brilliant
45:21brilliant
45:21brilliant at that
45:23and he wants to be
45:24the big thinker
45:25which he isn't
45:26but that's what
45:27he's trying
45:27to play out
45:32there will be
45:33those who will
45:35never forgive him
45:36for a rock
45:37but
45:37that you ask me
45:38I think he did
45:39a good job
45:42what would you say
45:43are his flaws
45:43he is an amazing
45:46politician
45:46as a husband
45:48and as a human being
45:50that's a different
45:51matter
45:51but that's
45:52that's really
45:53between me and him
45:59he doesn't stop
46:00I think he's busier
46:01than he was
46:02then
46:03why do you think
46:04that is
46:05because he's just
46:06not finished
46:07he wants to
46:08to do
46:09the work
46:10that he set out
46:10to do
46:12and so he won't
46:13stop
46:24and I also
46:26it's very important
46:28to understand about me
46:28I'm not into
46:30psychoanalysis
46:30right
46:31I think there's
46:31far too much of it
46:32I think people spend
46:33far too long
46:35constantly analysing
46:35themselves
46:36I know why I do
46:37what I do
46:38because I believe in it
46:39if people want to
46:40accept that
46:40they can accept
46:41if they don't
46:41accept it
46:44I'll just get on
46:45with doing it
47:12I'll just get on with doing it
47:12I'll just get on
47:13Oh me
47:14God
47:17Him
47:19He is
47:22He is
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