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00:06I remember there was one time when I went up to the flat just before I was going home
00:11about 11 o'clock at night and said right I'm off now and I wish I'd done dozens of times
00:16before
00:16and I've got no idea why but I walked to the door over here and I got to the door
00:23which was open
00:25and I stood at the door and I turned around and I looked at him and I think he thought
00:32I'd gone
00:34and I can just remember thinking it was an absolute picture of isolation
00:43and he just he had a sense of burden and weight
00:49and because at that stage so many people saw him in the way that they did Tony Blyer all that
00:55stuff
00:57I actually it was one of those moments when I wished I could paint
01:01it was an absolute portrait in the kind of isolation of power
01:08did you feel any urge to either say something or put an arm around him
01:12no I didn't I just walked out
01:14you
02:12Transcription by CastingWords
02:43Transcription by CastingWords
02:44One-on-one, oh, interesting, almost out of the blue.
02:48We get on a plane, we get picked up by a helicopter,
02:51we get taken to this place God knows where.
02:54Amazing sort of luxury that he's living in by now.
03:07And we had a dinner where Putin absolutely laid into it.
03:14Okay, where are the Americans going next, though?
03:15Where are they going to war next?
03:17Oh, they haven't told you yet.
03:18They'll tell you.
03:19And then he'll do it.
03:21And it was nasty, it was cynical.
03:24He didn't use the phrase Bush's poodle,
03:26but that was kind of what he was saying.
03:28It was really quite vicious.
03:32How did Tony respond?
03:34He sort of sat there, took it,
03:38then just explained to him why he thought he was wrong.
03:41No doubt there will be discussions ahead of us
03:43in order to make sure that we can resolve
03:46any remaining difficulties or issues
03:48that there are in the international community.
03:50But I would like to thank the President once again
03:52for the constructive and immensely friendly atmosphere
03:55in which these talks were conducted.
03:56Ladies and gentlemen, thank you.
04:02The conference is over.
04:09Back home, Tony Blair has a problem.
04:12He wants to move on from the Iraq war,
04:16continue his reforms to the United Kingdom,
04:19and win another general election.
04:24I want us to win a third term,
04:26not so that we can go in the history books,
04:29but so that we can consign Britain's failings
04:32to the history books.
04:33That's why we want it.
04:36But moving on from the war is proving to be difficult.
04:43That's fine, sir, you can make your protests.
04:46Just thank goodness we live in a democracy and you can.
04:50The Iraq war shattered the Blair Coalition,
04:54so it was never glad, confident morning again.
04:57We'd gone through a long period
04:58where Tony Blair was a very trusted individual.
05:01And once that trust was lost,
05:04a lot of people lost faith
05:05in what government was telling them.
05:10As the war on terror continues and stories keep on emerging from Iraq,
05:16it proves impossible to draw a line under it.
05:30An American television network
05:32has shown disturbing photographs taken by one U.S. soldier,
05:36which appear to show others abusing Iraqi prisoners.
05:46Just tell me what you felt when you saw those images
05:49of hooded prisoners in Abu Ghraib.
05:52No, of course, I was appalled whenever you see...
05:54Appalled by the fact of it and appalled by the stupidity of it.
05:58In war, bad things are going to happen.
06:03But our attempt there to stabilise the country,
06:07I mean, that's an ambition that was a perfectly good one.
06:10What about the fact that it was official U.S. policy
06:13to have a form of torture?
06:16Well, I never agreed with torture.
06:18And at any point in time where it was ever erased with me,
06:20I always said, I'm opposed to this.
06:22I'm opposed to it on moral grounds.
06:24I'm opposed to it on grounds of effectiveness.
06:27I have never been in favour of it, and I never was at the time.
06:30And I made it clear that we should say to the Americans
06:32we were not in favour of it.
06:42Blair's also having problems with Gordon Brown,
06:45a decade after Brown agreed to support Blair's bid
06:48to become Labour leader.
06:55Tony was increasingly exasperated with the impatience
07:00that Gordon Brown had to be Prime Minister.
07:04Obviously, wanting to take over when Tony stood down,
07:07but when was Tony going to stand down?
07:09And a lot of those people who were supporting Gordon Brown
07:12were getting increasingly impatient.
07:15Ten years is a very long time in any job.
07:18Has there been any point when you've thought about moving on?
07:23No.
07:25So there you are.
07:26Did you ever see him sort of crack or crumble a little bit
07:30in the privacy of, as it were, your bedroom or the flat?
07:34There were plenty of times, I think,
07:37when he would feel, have I done the right thing?
07:42He wouldn't be human if he didn't find that difficult,
07:47and the constant drip, drip, drip of Gordon's pressure.
07:53There was a point when he thought, you know,
07:56maybe I should stand down.
07:58What did you say?
07:59No.
08:01I was absolutely against that.
08:05I said to him,
08:06of course, if you want to stand down,
08:08you must stand down,
08:09but do you really think that Gordon is the right person
08:13to take over from you?
08:17Because I don't think you do,
08:19and therefore I don't do it.
08:26People say there's always tension
08:28between Number 10 and the Chancellor,
08:29but there was this extra dimension in this case.
08:32The deal was supposed to be
08:34that they wouldn't fight each other
08:38and that Tony would hand over to Gordon,
08:40and that became a sort of despoiling element
08:45in the government as Tony went on and on and on.
08:59It was not an easy campaign.
09:01The days of sort of standing on a soapbox
09:03and just talking to an adoring gathering had gone.
09:06We've had Mr. Kennedy in that chair,
09:07we've had Mr. Howard in that chair.
09:09Why wouldn't you debate directly,
09:11face to face with them in the...
09:20I debate every week
09:21in the House of Commons with Michael Howard.
09:23I'm here to answer questions tonight.
09:27I probably do more discussions,
09:30not just with audiences like this,
09:32but with people when we talk about the issues
09:35than any politician before me.
09:37All right.
09:38Mr. Blair, Mr. Blair, thank you.
09:40What got to Tony, however,
09:43was when people who were really close to him
09:47started saying to him,
09:48you know, trust is draining away,
09:51people don't believe you in the way that they did.
09:54He'd all this been fostered,
09:59generated by people who wanted him to go.
10:02I told him, just get up off your knees.
10:06Don't be apologetic.
10:08Stop being a supplicant.
10:09Be a leader.
10:10Go out there and be confident and fight.
10:13After years of bad blood and distrust,
10:16Tony Blair, since last week,
10:17has rarely ventured a few yards from the Chancellor's side.
10:21Despite the ongoing tensions between the two men,
10:24Blair and Brown put on a united front during the campaign.
10:28You must have seen more of him in the last five days
10:30than in the last five years.
10:31I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.
10:34Your wives must be beginning to wonder something's going on.
10:37When we are together,
10:39it emphasises the importance,
10:40not just the unity of the government,
10:42but also the importance of the unity of that message.
10:44You get my physics, did you?
10:45Well, Tony Blair is a trusted leader internationally,
10:48respected around the world,
10:49and he has led the major reforms
10:51that have been brought about in this country,
10:53including the reforms in economic policy
10:55that we're talking about today.
11:03Britain has decided,
11:04and we are predicting,
11:06that Tony Blair has won a third term,
11:08but with a sharply reduced majority of 66,
11:11making the Prime Minister the first ever Labour leader
11:13to win three elections in a row.
11:16It felt a much more tense night.
11:19He wasn't joyous in the same way.
11:21Did he feel vulnerable?
11:23I mean, he's still Prime Minister, he wins, but...
11:25No, he felt vulnerable.
11:26He felt vulnerable.
11:27I think he felt that things were turning.
11:29I think he felt, you know, and they were.
11:32On these results, I would have thought,
11:34not Gordon Brown himself,
11:35but the Brown supporters will be wondering
11:38how quickly they can move Tony Blair out of Downing Street.
11:43He is clearly a liability,
11:45and I fear for the future,
11:47unless he ceases to be the leader of the party.
11:52After the 2005 election,
11:54there was a kind of sourness amongst Labour MPs.
11:57As if to say,
11:58oh, well, Tony's won, that's what you expect of Tony,
12:00whereas, in fact, it was...
12:01This guy's a genius.
12:03It may be other things as well, but absolute genius.
12:05Brilliant at winning elections.
12:08I think hubris kicked in.
12:10Ego's the disease of politics.
12:12I mean, people are...
12:13That's why you have to change, you know,
12:15presidents and leaders and not hang on forever.
12:18You know, if you have absolute power,
12:21it goes to your head,
12:23and you think you're the fount of all wisdom.
12:25They all say you're brilliant,
12:26and you start thinking you're brilliant.
12:30After Iraq, because it was such a difficult decision,
12:34and the aftermath was so traumatic in many ways,
12:39you know, there was bound to be a reduction
12:41in my capacity to persuade people.
12:44What there wasn't was a reduction
12:46in my ability to do the things I really wanted to do.
12:50You know, the irony is,
12:51you start as a politician
12:53at your most popular but least capable,
12:58and then you end at your most capable but least popular.
13:00So, yes, I was conscious of the fact
13:03I was much less able to persuade people,
13:05but I was also much more confident
13:07about the direction I was taking the country in.
13:16With power slipping away,
13:18Blair wants to use what time he has
13:21to make as much difference as possible.
13:34And when the G8 comes to the UK,
13:37he gets to choose the agenda
13:39for the leaders of the world to discuss.
13:50Blair chooses cancelling the debt
13:52of the world's poorest countries
13:54and for them all to admit the truth of climate change.
14:00It was probably the most extraordinary 48 hours
14:03I had in politics.
14:05We tried to do something completely different
14:07with what was then the G8,
14:08and I really used every bit of lost credibility
14:13and influence with the Americans in order to do it.
14:18It was very tense because, first of all,
14:21I don't think the Americans really wanted that agenda,
14:25and secondly, because Russia was there
14:27and already things were becoming somewhat fractured
14:30with the Russian leadership.
14:34So, it was going to be a very, very tall ask.
14:38If we cancel debt,
14:40we will save thousands of lives every day
14:43and millions of lives in the future.
14:50With the summit underway,
14:52Blair is hoping for another boost.
14:59Right, good morning, everyone.
15:01You know the issues that are there,
15:03Africa and climate change.
15:06Thank you for your leadership.
15:08This is going to be a successful summit.
15:11Thousands of people have gathered in central London
15:14to hear the result of the 2012 Olympic bid.
15:17The Games of the 30th Olympiad in 2012
15:21are awarded to the city of London.
15:32Prime Minister Trafalgar Square is visiting right now.
15:36Is there anything you have to say
15:37to the people of London at this moment?
15:39Well done.
15:40Make Premier World the greatest games the world's ever seen.
15:55Blair arrives to put the finishing touches
15:57to a deal that writes off the debt
16:00of the world's poorest countries
16:02and properly recognises climate change.
16:17Can you move away from this world, please?
16:21Thank you, Rosie.
16:31Four Islamist terrorists
16:33have detonated suicide bombs in London,
16:36killing 52 people.
16:41I always remember
16:42he took a moment
16:44to go outside by himself
16:47and stand
16:49and reflect.
17:06There seems to be a link
17:08between the invasion of Iraq
17:10and a greater risk
17:11of terrorist activity in Britain.
17:13The fact is
17:14what they're doing
17:15is utterly evil
17:17and you can't compromise with it.
17:19You've got to pull it up by its roots.
17:23You could see that
17:25there were moments of extreme pressure,
17:28especially when he was making momentous decisions,
17:30especially ones involving human lives.
17:32Dad's always had this habit
17:33of you'd be talking to him about something
17:34and he'll zone out
17:36and think about something completely different
17:37and you would see
17:38the kind of zone-out moments
17:40ratchet up
17:41as more was on his shoulders.
17:44You know, he really cared
17:45if he saw it affecting us as well,
17:46so I think we were quite careful
17:48to make sure it didn't affect us.
17:50Or at least not show it.
17:51Right, right.
17:52There was almost this shared,
17:53mutual understanding
17:54that we would never let him
17:57see it affect us too much
17:58and he would never let us
17:59see it affect him too much.
18:12Blair knows that there are Labour MPs
18:15who want him to stand down,
18:16but there's still fight left in him
18:19as he takes on
18:20a little-known UKIP MEP.
18:23I thought, crikey,
18:25perhaps Blair's going to do it,
18:26perhaps he really is
18:27going to reform and change.
18:29But no,
18:30under your presidency,
18:31there have been
18:323,350 new legislative acts.
18:36Total failure
18:37on economic reform.
18:38Let me just tell you, sir,
18:40and your colleagues,
18:43you sit with our country's flag,
18:45you do not represent
18:47our country's interests.
18:53This...
18:55This is the year 2005,
18:58not 1945.
19:00We're not fighting each other anymore.
19:02These are our partners,
19:04they're our colleagues
19:04and our future lies in Europe.
19:13But Blair is finally
19:15about to lose power
19:16and it's not the British electorate
19:18who force him out.
19:19It's his own party.
19:22The polling was saying
19:24that with Tony Blair
19:26as Prime Minister,
19:27we were in trouble.
19:30Gordon was the most popular
19:32politician in Britain
19:33for about a decade.
19:35People really respected him
19:36and he had almost single-handedly
19:39turned around Labour's
19:41long-standing reputation
19:43for screwing up the economy.
19:46Many of those
19:47plotting Blair's downfall
19:49are allies of the Chancellor.
19:51I was saying to him,
19:53you need to make space
19:55for others than Gordon
19:58to come forward.
20:00And he would always say to me,
20:02I cannot choose my successor.
20:04And I would say,
20:05by not doing that,
20:08you are effectively
20:09choosing Gordon.
20:10Do you think he made a mistake?
20:11I do.
20:14What did you make
20:15of the accusation
20:16that you were
20:17a sort of Lady Macbeth figure?
20:23I think, really?
20:27I thought that was a joke.
20:30I thought it was Gordon
20:31who described me
20:32as Lady Macbeth.
20:33If anyone thinks
20:34Tony's my puppet,
20:35they just don't understand
20:36the nature of the man.
20:44He's on a visit to York
20:45when an advisor
20:46pulls him aside.
20:48They tell him
20:49that MPs
20:50are coming forward
20:51with letters
20:52calling for him
20:53to resign.
20:56Prime Minister,
20:57some of your most
20:57people who owe you
20:58their career
20:59want you to resign.
21:00What's your response
21:00to them?
21:04He brought his closest
21:06people together
21:07and worked out
21:09what he needed to do
21:10to respond.
21:12Who were his allies?
21:13Where were the people
21:14that he could activate
21:15on his behalf?
21:17Who was going to do that?
21:18So it became
21:18a sort of a mini
21:20sort of war plan.
21:22There were people saying,
21:24ride it out.
21:25But in the end
21:27there was a realisation
21:28that he couldn't
21:31fight it anymore.
21:37His head recognised
21:40that he'd run out of road.
21:44I'm not sure his heart
21:46ever accepted that.
21:48As for my timing
21:51and date of departure,
21:53I would have preferred
21:54to do this in my own way
21:56but has been pretty obvious
22:00from what many
22:01of my Cabinet colleagues
22:02have said earlier
22:04in the week.
22:06The next party conference
22:07in a couple of weeks
22:08will be my last party
22:09conference as party leader.
22:12Tell me a bit
22:13about you
22:15and Gordon Brown.
22:16You know,
22:16we were much more
22:18than just friends,
22:20right?
22:20We were deep
22:22political partners
22:24and
22:26for the best part
22:27of 10 years,
22:28it was quite a long time,
22:30we would be talking
22:31several times a day
22:32and then you put
22:33all the stresses
22:35and strains of government.
22:36I mean,
22:36if you think about it,
22:37it was a miracle
22:38we lasted 10 years
22:39but we did.
22:40And I always say to people,
22:42because people often say to me,
22:44you know,
22:44would it not have been better
22:45to have got rid of Gordon
22:45and so on?
22:46And, you know,
22:47you can make an argument
22:48for that.
22:48But I think those
22:51three election victories,
22:55which were the only time
22:56Labour ever won,
22:57three consecutive election victories
22:58with a full functioning majority,
23:01I think they were
23:03because we were new Labour,
23:04but I also think in part
23:05they were because
23:06that partnership
23:07was there with him.
23:11Blair has overseen
23:13ten years
23:13of economic prosperity
23:15while at the same time
23:17transforming many aspects
23:18of British society.
23:20There's a huge legacy
23:22and it covers many,
23:24many, many different areas.
23:25Bank of England
23:25independence,
23:26New Deal,
23:28schools and hospitals
23:28investment,
23:29gay rights,
23:31Scottish Parliament,
23:32minimum wage.
23:35Now,
23:36just as he leaves office,
23:37he is confronting
23:38the reality
23:39of life without power.
23:43By the time
23:43he was leaving
23:44number 10,
23:44he really finally
23:46understood
23:46how to make
23:48the whole thing work.
23:49And at that point,
23:50when perhaps he felt
23:52he could do even more,
23:54he had to stand back.
23:56Prime Minister's
23:57private staff
23:58had organised
23:59a sort of
24:00do,
24:02which was meant
24:03as a sort of
24:04thank you
24:05stroke celebration.
24:08With Blair's
24:09leaving drinks
24:10underway upstairs,
24:11Blair and Brown
24:12meet downstairs
24:13in the corridor.
24:18It's finally time
24:19for Blair
24:20to hand over
24:20the role
24:21of Prime Minister
24:22and he can't help
24:24but give Gordon's
24:25speech
24:25the once-over.
24:43It's been an honour
24:44to serve,
24:45a privilege
24:46to work in this building.
24:47Thank you very much indeed.
24:51It didn't really work.
24:54He suddenly realised
24:56it's over
24:58and that hurt.
25:12and then we made
25:13our way downstairs
25:14and we gathered
25:15our stuff
25:16as Gordon Bryan's
25:18people came in
25:19that way
25:20passing us.
25:21OK, I'll see you later.
25:23I'll see you later.
25:23Matthew, come down.
25:27Ten years in power,
25:28your dad leaves office.
25:30Did you get a sense
25:31that that was difficult
25:32for him?
25:33Yes.
25:34Yes.
25:34And definitely
25:36a sense of
25:37unfinished business.
25:41There you are,
25:42a seven-year-old.
25:43Yeah.
25:44Do you remember
25:44anything about that day?
25:45I remember being very sad.
25:47I wasn't just
25:47leaving the house
25:49I was in.
25:49I was leaving
25:49everybody else
25:50who I'd grown up with
25:51who was there, right?
25:52All the people
25:52that worked there
25:53who had been like,
25:54you know,
25:54kind of raised me
25:55collectively.
25:56I don't know,
25:56it might sound a bit weird
25:57but it is really like that
25:58when you see people
25:59every day
25:59from a very young age.
26:01Both my mum and I
26:02were trying to hold back tears.
26:04I think my mum
26:05made a sarcastic comment
26:06as she left,
26:06didn't she?
26:07To the press.
26:07To the press.
26:12What did you think
26:13of the press?
26:16I hated the press.
26:18They were particularly
26:18horrible to my mum.
26:20They obviously
26:21don't like strong women.
26:22Really, I think
26:23if someone today
26:23told me they worked
26:24for the Daily Mail
26:24I'd probably turn around
26:25and walk in the other direction.
26:29Your skill as a politician
26:30is about knowing
26:32about the people
26:33and living with the people
26:34and understanding
26:35what the people want.
26:36Ten years in living
26:37in the goldfish bowl
26:38you kind of lose contact
26:40with reality.
26:43He didn't really bring on
26:45a generation
26:46to carry on his revolution.
26:49He was singular in that sense.
26:52It was just him
26:53and the way that he left
26:55gave one an impression
26:56that it had always really
26:58just been about him.
26:59That being prime minister
27:00was merely a stage
27:01on his career journey
27:04and he left a void
27:05in politics
27:06that was never really filled.
27:10That is the problem
27:11with charismatic politicians.
27:15Once the charisma is gone
27:18there's just a bit of smoke left
27:20and a faint memory of light
27:22and the stage is empty.
27:34So you were forced out
27:35as you've put it
27:36of the biggest job
27:38in your life
27:39when you were 54.
27:42How did that feel?
27:43You see I knew
27:45I knew I was going to go
27:47I'd had more than
27:48ten years in the job
27:52I was literally thinking
27:53about what's the future.
27:55I mean some people said to me
27:56you should take six months off
27:57you should go and
27:58you know
28:00go and sit somewhere
28:01read books
28:01and you know
28:02contemplate life.
28:03I was literally
28:04not interested in that
28:04for a moment.
28:15On his first afternoon
28:17not being prime minister
28:18he takes the train
28:20up to the northeast
28:23of England
28:23back to Sedgefield
28:26and he arrives back
28:28at Darlington
28:28train station
28:31and there's no one there.
28:35So the official car
28:36is gone.
28:39All of that
28:40he has got used to
28:41over the previous ten years.
28:43The British state
28:43just turns it off.
28:48He is left
28:49on Darlington train station
28:51waiting.
29:00And I think that
29:01sort of certain
29:02jolting change
29:03to your
29:04power and status
29:05is sort of captured
29:07in that moment.
29:11It's quite a frightening
29:14thing to know
29:15that you're going
29:15from having
29:19one of the most
29:20important jobs
29:20in the country
29:23to walking out
29:26into the world
29:28and
29:30nothing.
29:33But no red box
29:34this morning.
29:35No red box.
29:36Yes, that was strange.
29:45This will be
29:45a new government
29:47with new priorities
29:49and now let
29:50the work of change
29:51begin.
30:01Not only has he
30:03given up being
30:03Prime Minister,
30:05he's giving up
30:05his seat in the
30:06House of Commons.
30:08It's time to pack up
30:09his constituency house.
30:11This is just,
30:12I mean,
30:13the thing is,
30:14it's one thing
30:14to change a job
30:17but then you change
30:18a job you move
30:18house at the same time.
30:19Those are apparently
30:20the two most stressful
30:20things you ever do.
30:24And I'm doing
30:25both at the same time.
30:26An American
30:28politician said
30:29that losing high
30:29office is like
30:30the end of a love
30:31affair.
30:32And the thing
30:33about a love affair
30:34is when you're
30:34out of one,
30:34you shouldn't go
30:35too quickly
30:35into the next one.
30:36And I think
30:38Tony was scared
30:40is the wrong word
30:41but worried
30:41at the idea
30:43that he'd have
30:43an empty diary.
30:48With the help
30:48of the Americans,
30:50Blair gets the job
30:51as envoy
30:52to the Middle East.
30:54He wants to improve
30:55the situation
30:56between Israel
30:57and the Palestinians.
31:00So, Mr Blair,
31:01what does it feel like
31:01being pitched into
31:02one of the most
31:03intractable conflicts
31:04in the world?
31:05Or is it...
31:06It's hugely challenging
31:08but there's nothing
31:09more important
31:11in the world today
31:12than to get
31:13this issue
31:14sorted out
31:15in a different place.
31:16Hello there.
31:18He was a genuine
31:20statesman
31:20which is more
31:21than can be said
31:22for most of his
31:23successors
31:23but on the other
31:24hand,
31:24what he could not
31:25see was how
31:26grievously he was
31:28morally compromised
31:29by the Iraq war
31:31about all the
31:32fallout from that.
31:33Hello, good to see you.
31:36Yeah, good to see you.
31:36This is Uval Steininger
31:37as the head
31:38of our...
31:38Hello there.
31:39He's never been good
31:40at seeing himself
31:42as others see him.
31:43So, where would you like to...
31:44Right, shall we sit down
31:44here?
31:45Do you want me to take
31:45my tie off then
31:46if you're good and casual?
31:48Yeah.
31:50But Blair is a statesman
31:51without a state
31:53and alongside his role
31:54in the Middle East
31:55he establishes
31:56several foundations
31:58for which he starts
31:59raising money.
32:01No previous Labour
32:02Prime Minister
32:03has ever gone after
32:03money like he did
32:05and he went to
32:05some very disreputable
32:07countries.
32:08I think it was all
32:09because he wanted
32:10to be left with
32:10a big legacy
32:11and a big reputation
32:12and he didn't want
32:14to finish with Iraq.
32:15Iraq was failure
32:16but then he wanted
32:18to build another story
32:19of him as a great
32:20leader and thinker
32:21and that's why
32:22he threw himself
32:23into raising
32:24all this money.
32:28The amount of money
32:29that Prime Minister
32:29has paid is ludicrous
32:30in this country
32:31to pay them
32:32quite so little
32:32and if you had
32:33a political career
32:34as an MP etc
32:36by comparison
32:37from an ordinary
32:37person
32:37yes you're
32:38paid well
32:38but by comparison
32:39with their
32:40contemporaries
32:40from university
32:41the people
32:42they compare
32:42themselves with
32:43they feel very poor
32:44it's the same
32:44with civil servants
32:45so when they come
32:46out they want
32:46to make money
32:47and that's
32:47I think
32:48Tony is just
32:48very competitive
32:49he wants to
32:49make more money
32:50than others.
32:51In office
32:52Blair tried
32:53to persuade
32:53some of the
32:54world's
32:54most controversial
32:55regimes
32:56to move
32:57closer to the
32:57West
32:58and he still
32:59believes
33:05if he can
33:06which takes him
33:07to Kazakhstan
33:09advising
33:09President Nazarbayev
33:11a dictator
33:12known to have
33:13repressed
33:13his own people.
33:20You advised
33:21some pretty
33:22unsavoury characters
33:23do you think
33:24that was a mistake?
33:25So the advisory
33:26work we were doing
33:28for example
33:29in Kazakhstan
33:30was advisory
33:31work that was
33:32completely in line
33:32with what the
33:33World Bank
33:34was doing there
33:34other consultancies
33:36and foundations
33:37were doing there
33:37but anyway
33:38it was a complete
33:39mistake because
33:39to do
33:41the for profit
33:42in that way
33:43because it looked
33:44like it was all
33:45to do with
33:45personal gain
33:46when actually
33:47it really wasn't
33:48it was to do
33:49with creating
33:50enough funding
33:51that we could
33:52start the institute
33:53and if you want
33:54to do something
33:55you've got to
33:55raise money.
33:56But money
33:57is never pure?
33:59Well money's money
34:00it just allows
34:01you to do things
34:02if you leave office
34:03and you're
34:04early 50s
34:05and many people
34:07will now
34:07and you've got
34:08maybe
34:09I don't know
34:10maybe 20
34:1030 years
34:11of active life
34:11in front of you
34:12what are you going
34:13to do?
34:13If you're the
34:14sort of person
34:14that became
34:15Prime Minister
34:15you're not going
34:16to want to
34:16go off and
34:16play rounds
34:17of golf all day
34:18and certainly
34:19that's not
34:19what I would
34:20ever want to do
34:21so you know
34:21you're going
34:22to want to
34:22create something
34:23but if you
34:24want to create
34:24something
34:25I'm afraid
34:25you need
34:25money.
34:27When Blair
34:28publishes his
34:29autobiography
34:30he donates
34:31the £4.6
34:32million advance
34:33to the Royal
34:34British Legion
34:36but even the
34:37launch of his
34:37book proves
34:39controversial.
34:40The first stop
34:41on his book tour
34:51is Dublin.
34:57He then cancels
34:58his book launch
34:59in London
35:00and it looks
35:01like he may
35:02never shake
35:02off the legacy
35:03of the Iraq
35:04War.
35:09You will remember
35:10the portrait
35:11that was painted
35:11of you
35:12by Jonathan
35:13Yeo
35:13I believe
35:15where the
35:16only real bit
35:16of colour
35:17is the poppy.
35:18What did you
35:19think when you
35:20saw that?
35:21I thought it
35:22was a good
35:22painting.
35:25Significance
35:25of the poppy?
35:27Yeah of course
35:27I mean it was
35:28bound to be seen
35:29in the context
35:30of the war
35:30and so on
35:31but I thought
35:32it was a good
35:33picture.
35:34A portrait
35:35is in some
35:36ways meant
35:36to summarise
35:36someone.
35:37Did it do
35:38that with you?
35:39You decide
35:40whether it
35:41I mean
35:42I'm not
35:43interested in
35:43that type
35:44of stuff.
35:45I mean
35:45if people
35:46want to say
35:47that's all
35:47it was about
35:48and there
35:48would be
35:49plenty of
35:49people on
35:49the right
35:50and plenty
35:50of people
35:50on the left
35:51who want
35:51to say
35:51that was
35:52all he ever
35:52did was
35:53take the
35:53country to
35:54war post
35:549-11
35:55and fine
35:55they can
35:55say that.
35:56It really
35:57doesn't worry
35:58me.
35:58You've got
35:59to understand
35:59I have enough
36:00belief in
36:01what I've
36:01done
36:02and what
36:02I'm doing
36:03now
36:03that if
36:04people want
36:04to do
36:05that
36:05which by
36:06the way
36:06is for
36:07political
36:07reasons
36:08because
36:09I can't
36:10think of
36:10another
36:10British
36:11Prime Minister
36:11that wouldn't
36:11have also
36:12wanted to
36:12be with
36:12America
36:13post 9-11
36:13but anyway
36:14leave that
36:15to one
36:15side.
36:16If people
36:16want to
36:16make that
36:17the only
36:17thing
36:17they think
36:18about
36:18when they
36:19think
36:19about
36:19me
36:19that's
36:19up to
36:20them.
36:21You have
36:22to understand
36:22it's not
36:23going to
36:24determine
36:25my view
36:25of what
36:26I've
36:26done
36:26or what
36:26I'm
36:27doing
36:27now.
36:27I will
36:31but there's
36:32no point
36:32in keeping
36:34asking me
36:34the same
36:35thing
36:35around
36:36someone
36:37paints a
36:37portrait of
36:38you.
36:38What do
36:38you feel
36:39when you
36:39look at
36:39it?
36:41I actually
36:41felt it was
36:42a really
36:42good portrait
36:42was the
36:43most important
36:43thing I
36:44thought.
36:45This
36:46series is
36:46going to
36:47reflect the
36:48successes
36:48of your
36:49project
36:50but it
36:51has to
36:51touch
36:52on these
36:52I understand
36:53that Michael.
36:53I'm not...
36:55The reason I
36:56push back
36:56hard
36:58is because
37:01I feel
37:02it's got
37:02to be
37:02pushed
37:03back
37:03hard
37:03against
37:03because
37:04of course
37:04it's what
37:04a lot
37:05of people
37:05say
37:05and this
37:06is a
37:06program
37:07about me
37:08and so
37:09I'm
37:09entitled
37:10to my
37:10view
37:10and I
37:11want to
37:11express
37:11my
37:12view.
37:12You ask
37:13me a lot
37:13about
37:13Iraq
37:14and everything
37:14but I
37:14always say
37:15to people
37:15that we
37:15did an
37:16immense
37:16amount
37:16of good
37:17things
37:17and this
37:17country
37:18on the
37:19day I
37:19left
37:19in June
37:192007
37:20was a
37:21strong
37:21capable
37:22country
37:23and in
37:23my
37:24view
37:24and I'm
37:24entitled
37:25to it
37:25as people
37:26are entitled
37:26their view
37:26if we
37:27stuck
37:27with that
37:28strong
37:29centre
37:29ground
37:30government
37:31and we
37:32hadn't
37:32got into
37:33the mess
37:34we've
37:34got into
37:35as a
37:35country
37:35we would
37:36be in
37:36a much
37:37more
37:37powerful
37:37position
37:38today.
37:48Ten
37:49years
37:49after
37:50losing
37:50power
37:51and
37:52Blair's
37:52aims
37:52for the
37:53Labour
37:53Party
37:53Britain
37:54and
37:55the
37:55world
37:55seem
37:56to be
37:57collapsing.
38:02Jeremy
38:03Corbyn
38:03who
38:04campaigned
38:04against
38:05the
38:05Iraq
38:05War
38:06is
38:06Labour
38:07leader.
38:08Those
38:08people
38:09who
38:09wish
38:09us
38:09ill
38:10divide
38:10us
38:11stay
38:11together
38:12strong
38:12and
38:13united
38:13for the
38:14kind of
38:14world
38:14we want
38:15to live
38:15in.
38:16Nigel
38:17Farage,
38:18the once
38:18minor
38:19MEP,
38:20helps
38:20take
38:21Britain
38:21out
38:21of
38:22Europe.
38:23Let
38:23June
38:24the
38:2423rd
38:25go
38:25down
38:25in
38:26our
38:26history
38:27as
38:27our
38:28Independence
38:28Day!
38:30If you
38:31told me
38:31that Nigel
38:32Farage
38:32was going
38:32to be
38:33a key
38:33player
38:33in
38:33British
38:34politics
38:34and
38:34Jeremy
38:35Corbyn
38:35was going
38:35to lead
38:35the Labour
38:36Party,
38:36I would
38:36have said
38:37that's
38:37never
38:38going
38:38to
38:38happen.
38:39But I
38:40was wrong.
38:41Both
38:41did
38:41happen.
38:45And the
38:46new world
38:47order is
38:48crumbling.
38:49Putin will
38:50later cite
38:51the Iraq
38:51War as
38:52one of the
38:53justifications
38:54for his
38:54invasion of
38:55Ukraine.
38:57Tell me
38:57about your
38:58perspective on
38:59Putin's
38:59character.
39:00war.
39:01question
39:01you always
39:01ask
39:02yourself
39:02is
39:02was
39:03he
39:03always
39:04as
39:05he
39:05became
39:05when I
39:06just
39:06didn't
39:06see
39:06it
39:07or
39:07did
39:07he
39:07change?
39:08And
39:08my
39:09view is
39:10that he
39:10did
39:10change
39:10but
39:11who
39:11knows?
39:14A huge
39:15part of
39:15what
39:16you
39:16fought
39:17for
39:18has
39:18frankly
39:19crumbled
39:20since
39:20you
39:20left
39:20power.
39:21Has
39:21that
39:22been
39:22difficult
39:22to
39:22watch?
39:24Look
39:25people
39:25in these
39:26last
39:26years
39:27have
39:27moved
39:27against
39:28some
39:28of
39:28the
39:28things
39:29I
39:29stood
39:29for.
39:30You
39:31know
39:31belief
39:31that
39:31globalization
39:32was
39:33basically
39:33a
39:34positive
39:34process
39:34that
39:35we
39:35needed
39:35to
39:35manage.
39:37Britain
39:37being
39:38in
39:38Europe
39:39liberal
39:40interventionism
39:41yeah we
39:42should all
39:42just
39:43disengage
39:44yeah
39:45people have
39:46moved
39:46against
39:46it
39:47but
39:49you know
39:50I remain
39:50committed
39:50to those
39:51things
39:51and I
39:51think
39:52again
39:53you've
39:53got to
39:53think
39:54you know
39:54history
39:55is not
39:55static
39:56it
39:56changes
39:56and
39:57people
39:58will
39:58I
39:58think
39:58come
39:59in
39:59time
39:59to
40:00realize
40:00there's
40:01you know
40:02there are
40:03merits
40:03in the
40:04position
40:04that
40:06I
40:06took
40:12his
40:12sense
40:13of
40:13himself
40:14is
40:14that
40:14he
40:15is
40:15a
40:17man
40:17of
40:17the
40:17future
40:18he
40:19believes
40:19that
40:19progress
40:20is
40:20real
40:21and
40:21that
40:21history
40:21is
40:21moving
40:22in
40:22a
40:22direction
40:23from
40:23bad
40:24to
40:24good
40:25from
40:25dark
40:26to
40:26light
40:29my
40:29name
40:30is
40:30Tony
40:30Blair
40:30I'll
40:30speak
40:31round
40:31about
40:31this
40:31level
40:31thank you
40:32I think
40:33there is
40:33a sense
40:34of him
40:34being
40:34this
40:35kind
40:35of
40:35tragic
40:35character
40:38but in
40:38the
40:38kind
40:38of
40:39original
40:39kind
40:39of
40:39Greek
40:40tragic
40:40sense
40:41of
40:41battling
40:42against
40:42a
40:43fate
40:43trying
40:44to
40:44shape
40:44the
40:44world
40:45into
40:45the
40:46kind
40:46of
40:46world
40:47that
40:47he
40:47wants
40:47into
40:48a
40:48liberal
40:49international
40:51democratic
40:52world
40:52order
40:53and this
40:54was what
40:54Blairite
40:54Britain
40:55represented
40:55Britain
40:56was going
40:56to be
40:56the beacon
40:57of this
40:58world
40:58and it
40:58just
40:59kind
40:59of
40:59collapses
41:00into
41:01something
41:01that is
41:02completely
41:03different
41:03to that
41:04world
41:05that he
41:05imagined
41:06but yet
41:06he still
41:07holds on
41:08to the
41:08idea
41:08that he
41:09can see
41:09the future
41:11but
41:12just
41:12at that
41:12low
41:13point
41:13things
41:14start
41:14to
41:14turn
41:15around
41:15for
41:15Blair
41:16he
41:16sets
41:17up
41:17a
41:17new
41:17organisation
41:18the
41:19Tony
41:19Blair
41:19Institute
41:20for
41:20Global
41:21Change
41:21we
41:22speak
41:22every
41:23morning
41:23sometime
41:24between
41:25half past
41:26five
41:26and
41:26half
41:26past
41:26six
41:27we're
41:27trying
41:27to
41:27grow
41:28something
41:28that's
41:28going
41:28to
41:28out
41:29live
41:29him
41:30Blair
41:31personally
41:32advises
41:32world
41:33leaders
41:33and his
41:34institute
41:35pumps
41:35out
41:35policy
41:36papers
41:36coming
41:37to
41:37prominence
41:38during
41:38the
41:38pandemic
41:39when
41:40Covid
41:40first
41:41hit
41:41Tony
41:42and
41:42I
41:42decided
41:43we
41:43were
41:43going
41:43to
41:43pivot
41:43the
41:44entire
41:44organisation
41:45to
41:45work
41:45on
41:46Covid
41:46because
41:46we
41:46knew
41:47every
41:47single
41:48leader
41:49we
41:49worked
41:49with
41:49across
41:50the
41:50world
41:50was
41:51going
41:51to
41:51be
41:51grappling
41:52with
41:52this
41:52issue
41:53Blair
41:55becomes
41:55an early
41:56proponent
41:56of
41:56mass
41:57testing
41:59and
42:00his
42:00strategy
42:00for
42:00vaccinations
42:01is
42:01adopted
42:02by
42:02governments
42:03across
42:03the
42:03world
42:04it
42:05was
42:05the
42:05Tony
42:05Blair
42:06Institute
42:06which
42:07seemed
42:07to be
42:07ahead
42:07of
42:07the
42:07government
42:08you
42:09suddenly
42:09started
42:09to see
42:10prime
42:11ministers
42:11going
42:12to see
42:13Tony
42:13Blair
42:13or
42:14asking
42:14Tony
42:14Blair
42:14to
42:15come
42:15in
42:15to
42:15number
42:1610
42:16Liz
42:17Truss
42:17saw
42:17him
42:17Boris
42:18Johnson
42:18saw
42:19him
42:19Akiyah
42:19Starmer
42:20certainly
42:20saw
42:20him
42:21before
42:21he
42:21became
42:22prime
42:22minister
42:23this
42:23this
42:23the
42:23influence
42:25he
42:25has
42:26managed
42:26to
42:26build
42:27for
42:27himself
42:27Blair's
42:28institute
42:29employs
42:29over 900
42:30people
42:31working
42:32in
42:32more
42:32than
42:3240
42:33countries
42:34do
42:35you
42:35have
42:35as
42:35much
42:35power
42:36and
42:36influence
42:36now
42:37as
42:37you
42:37did
42:37in
42:37number
42:3710
42:38so
42:38I
42:39don't
42:39know
42:39as
42:39much
42:39power
42:40as
42:40I
42:41did
42:41when
42:41I
42:41was
42:41prime
42:41minister
42:42but
42:42influence
42:42to a
42:43degree
42:46many
42:46of
42:47Blair's
42:47old
42:47allies
42:48found
42:49their
42:49way
42:49back
42:49to
42:49power
42:52his
42:53chief
42:53of
42:53staff
42:54Jonathan
42:54Powell
42:55is
42:56Britain's
42:56national
42:57security
42:57advisor
43:00and
43:00until
43:01recently
43:03Peter
43:03Mandelson
43:04was
43:04Britain's
43:05ambassador
43:05to the
43:06United
43:06States
43:06and
43:07thank
43:07you
43:07very
43:08much
43:08indeed
43:08also
43:09for
43:09that
43:10very
43:10typical
43:1111th
43:12hour
43:12intervention
43:13by you
43:14with your
43:14phone call
43:15to the
43:15president
43:16do you
43:17think
43:17there's
43:18a small
43:18part of
43:19him
43:19that would
43:19rather like
43:20your job
43:23I'm not
43:24sure that
43:25Tony Blair
43:25is quite
43:26ready to
43:26become a
43:27mere
43:27ambassador
43:27but he'd
43:28certainly
43:29want to
43:29exercise
43:30influence
43:30over the
43:31person
43:31who was
43:32actually
43:32doing
43:32it
43:41and Blair
43:41is still
43:42in the
43:42frame
43:44when it
43:45comes to
43:45trying to
43:46bring peace
43:46to the
43:47Middle East
44:02even 18
44:04years after
44:05leaving power
44:05Tony Blair
44:08still provokes
44:09a kaleidoscopic
44:10range of
44:10opinions
44:13as we
44:14sit here
44:15with all
44:16that's going
44:17on
44:17I look
44:18back
44:20I think
44:21he was
44:21an integral
44:22part of
44:23a golden
44:23age in
44:24Britain
44:24which I
44:25think a
44:26lot of
44:26people would
44:26wish we
44:27were now
44:27back on
44:28because we
44:28sure ain't
44:29in a golden
44:30age today
44:35there are
44:36still many
44:36people who
44:37hate him
44:38often the
44:39people who
44:39used to
44:40love him
44:40most
44:43he was
44:44a formidable
44:45figure brought
44:46down by
44:47some of the
44:47very qualities
44:48that had
44:48taken him
44:49to the top
44:50the tragedy
44:51for Tony
44:52Blair if
44:52there is to
44:53be one
44:53may well
44:54be that
44:54his achievements
44:55are blotted
44:57out by
44:58the mistake
44:59that's
44:59unacknowledged
45:00that is a
45:02tragedy
45:06I know
45:07there are
45:07some people
45:08who absolutely
45:08despise the
45:08guy there
45:09are some
45:09people who
45:09celebrate
45:10the day
45:10he dies
45:10but I
45:11think
45:11Northern Ireland
45:12alone puts
45:13him in the
45:14top rank
45:15of British
45:15Prime Ministers
45:16he's a big
45:17historic figure
45:17his strength is
45:19all the
45:19communication and
45:20charm and he's
45:20brilliant brilliant
45:21brilliant at that
45:23and he wants to be
45:24the big thinker
45:25which he isn't
45:26but that's what he's
45:27trying to play out
45:32there will be
45:33there will be
45:33those who will
45:35never forgive him
45:36for a rock
45:37but
45:37you ask me
45:38I think he did
45:39a good job
45:42what would you say
45:43are his flaws
45:43he is an amazing
45:45politician
45:46as a husband
45:48and as a human
45:48being
45:50that's a different
45:51matter but that's
45:52that's really
45:53between me and him
45:59he doesn't stop
46:00I think he's
46:01busier than he
46:02was then
46:03why do you think
46:04that is
46:05because he's just
46:06not finished
46:07he wants to
46:08to do
46:09the work that he
46:10set out to do
46:12and so he
46:12won't stop
46:24and I also
46:26it's very important
46:28to understand about me
46:28I'm not into
46:29psychoanalysis
46:30right
46:31I think there's
46:31far too much of it
46:32I think people
46:33spend far too long
46:35constantly analysing
46:35themselves
46:36I know why I do
46:37what I do
46:38because I believe in it
46:39if people want to
46:40accept that
46:40they can accept
46:41if they don't
46:41accept it
46:44I'll just get on
46:45with doing it
47:12the type of thing
47:15that they can do
47:15I don't want to
47:16that they can do
47:18yeah
47:18you
47:18you
47:18You
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