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00:03Good evening, everyone. I'm Ayman Muhyiddin in for Stephanie Ruhle, and this is the Nightcap.
00:09We are about to enter week four of the war with Iran, and the very latest reporting points to
00:14a major offensive involving thousands more of U.S. troops moving into the region. But
00:20here's something we can't afford to forget. 23 years ago today, President George W. Bush
00:26announced that American forces had begun a military operation in Iraq. The former president
00:32vowed to destroy Iraqi weapons of mass destruction through a, quote, broad and concerted campaign.
00:39But when airstrikes failed, U.S. troops found themselves part of a ground invasion and eventually
00:45a brutal, nearly decade-long occupation. Now, fast forward to today and our current war with Iran.
00:52Just hours ago, Donald Trump said he was considering winding down U.S. military operations,
00:57but he also fiercely rejected the idea of a ceasefire. Watch this.
01:03I don't want to do a ceasefire. You know, you don't do a ceasefire when you're literally
01:08obliterating the other side. Now, at the same time, an official with knowledge of the matter
01:13tells MSNOW the administration has doubled the number of U.S. ground troops deploying to the
01:17Middle East, sending an additional 2,500 Marines and three warships from San Diego. Meanwhile,
01:24NBC News reports that the president is now weighing several options for U.S. troops inside Iran. And
01:29earlier today, he told my colleague Stephanie Ruhl that the U.S. military could leave right now,
01:34but if we stay longer, they'll never rebuild. Stephanie has the night off, but she spoke to the
01:40president on the phone earlier today, and she joins me now with more on their conversation.
01:45Stephanie, it's great to see you. Nice to have this seat for a few minutes and be able to talk
01:49to you to pick your brains about what you thought the biggest takeaways were from your conversation
01:53with the president.
01:55Eamon, first, thank you for upgrading the 11th hour anchor seat tonight. I did think I was going
02:01to have the night off, but I spoke to the president this morning. I gave him a call, as I've
02:05been calling
02:05him most days since the war broke out, and he chose today to be the day he answered my call.
02:11For me,
02:12I mean, straight out of the gate, you know, the president said very clearly, it's very clear why
02:17we had to launch this war, according to the president, and there is no evidence backing
02:21this up, that Iran was two weeks away from having a nuclear bomb, and they planned to use it. Now,
02:27experts across the board have said at best it was maybe a year away, so it's unclear where the
02:32president is getting this from. But he said, as you heard there, that they've obliterated any nuclear
02:37power that Iran has, and they could leave tomorrow. But if they leave tomorrow, the president said there
02:43would most likely not be a regime change. They would be able to rebuild in 10 years, and that's
02:48not good enough for him. But I would say my biggest takeaway was not his ire towards Iran. It was
02:54truly
02:55towards our European NATO allies. The president said over and over again how disappointed he is
03:02that nobody stepped up to support us. But he said it was really a test, because he's been saying for
03:07all of these years that NATO has always been a one-way street until he came on the scene. No
03:13other country put any money up. It was always the United States. And now here we are. We didn't need
03:18anyone, but no one came to help. And what was most extraordinary in talking about that and him
03:22referring to NATO without the U.S. as a paper tiger, he said Putin's not afraid of Europe at all.
03:28And it was as though he was more sympathetic to Putin's plight. When I asked about Zelensky,
03:33he said, you know, Zelensky's done nothing. It's all PR when it comes to Iran. And it's though he
03:38places more trust in Russia, in Putin, when, of course, we know from multiple source accurate
03:44reporting, Eamon, that Russia is currently providing surveillance, support for Iran so they can find U.S.
03:51targets. And we've been talking about it for years, that the president has this special
03:55relationship with Putin. And now here we are in a war with Iran that's backed by Russia. We're
04:01supposedly helping Ukraine in this war against Russia, but it doesn't seem like we are. And there's
04:06Trump openly saying that, you know, he has basically more trust in Putin than he does countries who have
04:12been our allies for decades and decades. That's extraordinary to me. Yeah, not to mention that Russian
04:18oil now is being sold on the market to try and bring oil prices down. And billions of dollars are
04:24going to be flowing into Russia to be used against Ukraine, undoubtedly. And the prices aren't going
04:29down. Yeah, not yet. Not yet. And they're hoping that some of they're willing to unsanction Russian
04:33and Iranian oil. That's how desperate they are at this moment in the war. But let me get your thoughts
04:38about the shifting explanations, Stephanie. Did the president, three weeks into this war, almost four
04:44weeks into this war? Did the president say what the objectives are now and how long it could take
04:50them to achieve it? I've heard him say that we won the war in the first hour. We're going to
04:53be there
04:54for a couple of days, possibly five to six weeks. I've lost track. Maybe today you got some insight.
04:58You're 100 percent spot on. And he did say over and over we've won the war. And even before I
05:03spoke
05:03to the president today, you know, for me, it's all my sources are Wall Street sources and they
05:08desperately want it to be over. So it was it'll be two days, three days. It's obviously not that.
05:13But the biggest shift I heard, you and I both know it was a week and a half ago when
05:18the president
05:18said after the Ayatollah was killed, we're going to choose the next leader. I'm going to be in
05:24charge of that. And I asked the president today, would that be the case? Does he still think he's
05:29going to have a stake in who's in charge? And he said, maybe, but that's less important.
05:34The most important thing is that Iran has no nuclear power. And thanks to me, thanks to this war,
05:40they don't. So he's shifting his reasoning. He's shifting what a win looks like so he can
05:45pack up and roll out. Stephanie Ruhl, no days off. Really appreciate you breaking some news.
05:52Have a great night. Try to enjoy whatever you can in the next couple of hours. We'll see you
05:57back here on Monday, Stephanie. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks. Take care.
06:02All right. Let's bring in our nightcap. David Rode, MSNOW senior national security reporter.
06:05Nikki McCann Ramirez, politics reporter for Rolling Stone magazine. Anthony Fisher,
06:10MSNOW daily senior editor and MSNOW political analyst, Molly Jung Fast. She's a contributing
06:15writer for the New York Times opinion and host of the Fast Politics podcast. Great to have you all
06:20with us. So, you know, a wide ranging interview there from Stephanie and no clarity yet on what
06:27the objectives or the timeline for achieving those objectives are from the president. And he's
06:32all over the place. It's not exactly exuding confidence from the commander in chief that
06:37four weeks into this war, a war that is over, that we won, that was over in the first hour,
06:44but we're sending more troops to continue the war is making these types of statements.
06:48Donald Trump is consistently inconsistent. Yeah. Right. We know it's over. It's almost like
06:54he really is sort of feeling it out. Right. He feels it's over. It's going. It's going to be a
07:01couple of days. I liked it when there was one day where he said, we're probably about to be gone.
07:07And then the market. Yeah. The market went down like oil went down to like $90. And then after
07:12the market closed, he did a presser and he was like, you know, maybe we'll keep going. Well,
07:17he said the war was winding down and the Pentagon an hour earlier or two hours earlier literally
07:22tweeted, we are just getting started. Right. And and also it seems pretty clear that ground troops
07:27are on their way. Yes. So look, you know, this is he was unable or unwilling to articulate why this
07:36war was started in the first place. We are almost four weeks in. It is more than a billion dollars
07:43a
07:43day, which is insane amounts of money. Right. And they're asking for $200 billion now just for
07:48this. And I just think, you know, when you can't explain why you're there, then you can't explain
07:55what winning would look like. And ultimately, that gets us really into a problem. You have to wonder
08:01if there was a part of this that was motivated to what Molly was saying about not wanting to explain
08:06to the American people the reasons why we want to go to this war was because it was going to
08:11always
08:12end up in this quagmire that we're seeing play out, this rhetorical quagmire, at least not militarily.
08:17But when you I'm old enough and we're talking about the Iraq war, I'm old enough to remember
08:22a year long campaign that was started by George W. Bush and the Bush administration,
08:28where not only did they go to the American people, but also went to the U.N. Security Council,
08:32the famous Colin Powell with the vial and the weapons of mass destruction.
08:36Forget the fact that it was based on lies. There was a concerted effort to try and make a case
08:41to the
08:41global community as to why this war was necessary. We didn't have that and we still don't have that.
08:46And I get the sense that we have a president who's workshopping every day new talking points.
08:52Absolutely. I mean, it's hard to believe that this war started days after the State of the
08:56Union address where he didn't mention that this was going to happen.
08:58I think three minutes is what he was like, you know.
09:00I mean, there was a little bit of Iran talk in the State of the Union,
09:02but nothing like we're about to engage in a regime change war where there will be...
09:07It's not regime change. No, no, no. Don't put words in the president's mouth.
09:10It was regime change for about a hot minute, and then it quickly moved on when we realized
09:14that we replaced Khamenei with Khamenei.
09:15But even some of the president's, like, you know, staunchest defenders in Congress were saying
09:21right off the bat, well, we're doing this, but it's not boots on the ground.
09:24Right. And now once it will be boots on the ground, the goalposts...
09:27Actually, that's such a good point because you remember there was, like, all...
09:29They were all coming out, like, twisting themselves into not saying, like,
09:31it's not a war because we don't have boots on the ground.
09:33It's not a war, and now we've got the boots literally on their way to the ground,
09:38and they're still not calling it a war.
09:40And the thing is, this is all being done because Trump has an obsession
09:43with being perceived as strong. This is about projecting American strength,
09:46and we're going to, like, be the boss of our hemisphere, you know, our sphere of influence,
09:51and also in the Middle East. If I'm China, if I'm a different adversary,
09:55I'm looking at these and seeing that there's no plan, that there was no risk assessment,
10:00that the obvious thing that the Strait of Hormuz was going to be closed
10:02was not even taken into account, that allies were...
10:06He spent the previous couple of months alienating all of the NATO allies,
10:09threatening an invasion of Greenland.
10:11Right.
10:11And then is shocked that nobody wants to come to his war of choice
10:14that nobody was tipped off about in the first place.
10:16It was a head fake. It was, like, 3-D chess.
10:18It was like, well, I'm going to distract you guys with Greenland,
10:20but then I'm going to go for Iran.
10:21Well, let me ask you this question that's a little bit less on the politics,
10:24and you know this world way better than most,
10:28which is the one thing the military does is plan.
10:31They have a plan for almost every scenario,
10:34and they certainly don't like to be put in a scenario where they don't have a plan.
10:38And so you have to wonder with the president and all of this mixed messaging that's happening
10:42about the objectives of the war, the timeline of the war,
10:45and then literally going out there and saying nobody expected them to attack the Gulf neighbors,
10:51nobody expected them to do what they're doing across the region.
10:56And my experience with the military is I don't think that kind of statement would land very well
11:00among the military brass, who have probably gamed out dozens of scenario.
11:05But it sounds like he's throwing some of the military planners and the experts.
11:09He literally said none of our experts predicted that they would attack the region.
11:14I don't know if you have any reporting on that or insight on that,
11:16but the conversations that you've had historically,
11:18it can't land well that the commander-in-chief is basically saying our experts did not plan this.
11:24I think there's, and this isn't, I don't have tons of firsthand knowledge,
11:27but I think there's frustration in the military with how this is coming across in terms of just this lack
11:32of planning.
11:32They have planned for this.
11:34They've talked about it for decades.
11:35Cain, the top general, is actually pretty well respected in the military,
11:40and is in, you can sometimes see like a visible, awkward situation when Hegseth is sort of laying it on
11:47thick.
11:47But you saw today also with intelligence chiefs, the hearings for the worldwide threats,
11:53who were asked, did you brief the president on this possibility?
11:56They are so afraid of the audience of one and embarrassing the president that they're like,
12:01I can only talk about that in a private hearing.
12:02Well, only the president can declare an imminent threat.
12:04We can't.
12:05No, and it's what, the whole hearing is about assessments.
12:08What does the, you know, intelligence community assess about China, about Russia?
12:12So did you assess that the Strait of Hormuz might be closed?
12:16Only the president, you know, did you assess Iran was an imminent threat?
12:20And they're like, only the president can decide that.
12:22So it is this attack on experts, and it's a fear just from every layer of government beneath him
12:29about crossing him and being fired.
12:32And it really is dangerous because, you know, this is war.
12:3613 Americans are dead, 200 have been wounded.
12:38And we were kind of like, you know, joking about the idea of how the Republican Party
12:42did not want to cross the president.
12:45And so with the messaging, they didn't want to call it a war.
12:49They, I mean, we had Representative Luna on our show who literally called it a limited strike operation.
12:56It's like-
12:56It's an excursion.
12:57Yeah, excursion, right, exactly.
12:59Four weeks into the most limited strike operation I've ever seen, dropping tons of munitions,
13:06destroying, I think by their own account, thousands of targets inside Iran.
13:11And the Republicans are totally acquiescing to the president to do whatever he wants.
13:15Yeah, this is mission creep speed run.
13:18I mean, Congress has completely abdicated its responsibility, starting from the war powers.
13:23You have the administration openly calling this a war at this point.
13:27There has been no declaration from Congress.
13:29This has not been authorized.
13:30But that's not the point.
13:31The point is that the president, as we've observed over the last decade through his first presidency,
13:37the interregnum, likes to govern via fiat.
13:40And he likes to declare conflicts and end conflicts via fiat.
13:43This has now gotten to the point where even if the U.S. withdraws completely tomorrow,
13:48shuts this thing down, abandons the strait, it will probably take months for gas prices to return to where they
13:55were,
13:55not to mention all the other commodities being affected by this.
13:58On top of that, this is no longer a conflict that is contained territorially to Iran.
14:05It's like 14 countries now that are impacted by this.
14:08Allies throughout the Gulf region are having their own energy infrastructure bombed, obliterated.
14:13This is now so far beyond an excursion, a extremely limited strike that lasts several months.
14:20We're looking at real war money.
14:23$200 billion is long-term war money.
14:27That is enough money to, I think, fund the ACA subsidies that were cut earlier this year for, like, at
14:34least half a decade.
14:34This is the administration gearing up for a long-term offensive.
14:40Pretty much every expert agrees that you cannot hold Karg Island or the Strait of Hormuz without a physical force
14:47presence.
14:48And that, to me, every sign seems like that's where this is going.
14:52So, David, we were talking a little bit about the reporting about possibly putting ground forces on the ground.
14:58I remember in 2003, since we're kind of drawing on that parallel, the invasion of Iraq itself and the war
15:05to capture and topple that infamous statue that we saw in Baghdad was three weeks.
15:10It probably went as smooth as the American military had thought it was.
15:15Shock and awe.
15:16Shock and awe, exactly.
15:16But then it was all downhill from there for the next decade or so.
15:23You have to wonder if the president is aware or underestimating the risks of landing U.S. troops on Karg
15:31Island or even somewhere else in Iran.
15:34The danger seems to be this sort of post-the Maduro raid, this belief that the American military can do
15:40anything.
15:41And then it's also, and you hear this a lot in Hegseth's rhetoric about, like, total air dominance 24 hours
15:47a day in Iran.
15:48And I covered Afghanistan.
15:50The U.S. had total air dominance for 20 years.
15:54By the way, the Taliban are not even like Iran.
15:57I mean, the Taliban were a bunch of, you know, I mean, you know this.
16:01It wasn't really a state, right?
16:03I mean, they had a state apparatus, but they weren't a state of soldiers and fighters.
16:07They were, in their eyes, warriors.
16:08You have Iran that has been building up its capacity for 47 years, and they were waiting for this moment.
16:15And the constant problem is that Trump declaring these goals that he talks about them like you can achieve them
16:22with air power.
16:22Like, we're never going to let Iran have a nuclear weapon.
16:26Air power can't do that.
16:27Like, if you really want to go in and get that enriched uranium, which is not enriched, it can't be
16:32made in two weeks, as Steph said.
16:33Like, you've got to send ground troops in.
16:36The tunnels, the caverns those are in, we bombed them a year ago.
16:41So now they're all collapsed.
16:42So you would have special forces on the ground for hours digging into these tunnels and then retrieving all this
16:50enriched uranium.
16:51It would be incredibly dangerous.
16:51And then it's the same thing with the Strait of Hormuz.
16:54You have, you know, all kinds of bunkers and things that they've put along there.
16:58It's very mountainous.
16:59And that, you know, ship owners aren't going to be willing to send ships through there, possibly unless there's troops
17:04in the ground, as you said.
17:06So Iranians have been, you know, they're the masters of asymmetric warfare.
17:09They've been planning for this for years.
17:11You can't do this alone with air power.
17:14Molly, 65 percent of Americans believe the president will, in fact, send ground troops to Iran.
17:20Only 7 percent support that.
17:22Yeah.
17:24I've been saying that perhaps out of all of the lies that President Trump gave the American people when he
17:29campaigned, the starting no new wars was probably the most explicit lie that was said by him, repeated by Tulsi
17:37Gabbard, J.D. Vance.
17:38For me, it's the most stark lie he gave to the American public.
17:42Is this going to politically backfire against him in the midterms?
17:45So this is the real question, right?
17:47I mean, I don't know what the historical precedent is for a president who ran on lowering prices and no
17:53new wars, who has raised prices and has done multiple wars and now.
17:59Eight.
17:59Right.
17:59Attacked eight countries.
18:01Right.
18:01And now is going into some kind of weird quagmire.
18:04But I think it's worth thinking about MAGA world for a minute.
18:07Yeah.
18:07Because there is a very real split in MAGA world, and it goes along the lines of anti-Semitism.
18:14So it's not as simple as just being anti-war, unfortunately.
18:19But, you know, Joe Kent, who left and resigned and had a big resigning letter, and, you know, a big
18:25resignation letter, and you know this administration, all they care about is fealty.
18:29So the fact that he wrote a real resignation letter and was public is a big deal.
18:35And he and Tucker Carlson are now, you know, part of this, part of MAGA that does not, now, again,
18:42they want no foreign wars, but they're also definitely, there are shades of anti-Semitism here.
18:47So I, you know, don't congratulate them.
18:51But it's a real schism in MAGA.
18:53And that is something we're really seeing, which is, and you see it with Mark Levin, and you see it
18:58with, you know, there's like a real question.
19:00Because these people really did believe that he was not going to do any of this stuff, that Bush was,
19:06you know, Bush one, Bush two, those were the neocons, and he was not going to be a neocon.
19:11Yeah, he went full neocon.
19:12And our allies are watching this, and you have to wonder, and this is something that I still have not
19:17been able to wrap my head around.
19:18I don't know if you've given it any thought.
19:20But it's like you watch how Donald Trump has berated European allies, how he has insulted Keir Starmer by name,
19:27how he has gone after the French, how he said, oh, they want to join the war after we've already
19:31won it.
19:33And for the most part, the Europeans said, we don't want to be a part of this.
19:36We're not going to be involved in the Strait of Hormuz and trying to open it up.
19:39But then you see the British turn around and say, we will now allow you to use our air bases.
19:46And you wonder, why is this capitulation happening?
19:49I mean, I'm sure they've got their reasons.
19:52I mean, you don't want to completely turn your back on the special relationship, perhaps.
19:55But, I mean, what's, you know, we're speaking about allies, and Trump speaks so cavalierly about the possibility of blowback,
20:03possibility of blowback to civilians, whether it's Americans.
20:06He's even said, you know, well, it could happen.
20:08Americans could suffer because of this.
20:10And Iran is a state sponsor of terror.
20:12Iran is openly saying that they are planning on going after civilian targets.
20:16Now, those could be in the Middle East.
20:18Those could be in Europe.
20:19Those could be in South America.
20:20Those could be in the United States.
20:22And this is, we can't lose sight of the fact that not only did Trump break his promise to not
20:27start any new wars, but he also claimed that he was, his America first was all about keeping America safe
20:33from, you know, and to start a war that you've got no plan, you've got no allies, you've got no
20:40definition of victory, and you know that there's a threat of blowback on civilians, including your own, you know, your
20:46own constituents.
20:47And to be so completely cavalier and to have no plan for that just blows my mind.
20:50Yeah, and we, I'm sure we've been speaking to a lot of sources in the Gulf as well who are,
20:54like, very frustrated about what has happened.
20:56Not only did they not get a heads up that this war was happening, you'd think that you would tell
21:00your allies who are now receiving these thousands of ballistic missiles and drone attacks, just be prepared.
21:05We're not going to tell you when the operation's going to start, but we need you to be on high
21:08alert, get hospitals ready, make sure your defenses, make sure everything is, like, tightened up.
21:12The people I've been speaking to in the region, nothing.
21:14And they feel totally abandoned by the U.S.
21:17I mean, these systems are holding up now, but they're not giving an end in sight.
21:21They don't know if this is going to be nine months, two days, five weeks, what the end goal is.
21:25And there was that deep frustration where a lot of the interceptor missiles, which are so important and so expensive,
21:29were kept by the U.S. or given to Israel.
21:32And so, and I was told these governments were like, don't do this.
21:35Yeah.
21:36They were told the U.S. was going to do it.
21:37And now, and then I was told they were urging him to just keep going to get this done quickly.
21:42And now that's not happening.
21:44So it's a real mess.
21:44And then on the British, there was a point this week from The Guardian that the British national security advisor,
21:49Jonathan Powell, went to the last round of peace talks between the Iranians and the U.S., where Witkoff was
21:54there.
21:55Jonathan Powell bought his nuclear experts who could actually analyze what the Iranians were offering.
22:01Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner didn't bring any nuclear experts.
22:05And the Brits were surprised by the final offer from the Iranians.
22:09They thought it was substantive.
22:10They thought that the negotiations should continue.
22:12There was a meeting scheduled for the following Monday with nuclear experts.
22:16And instead, the U.S. started bombing.
22:18So this is why the Brits are like, and now you're calling us cowards?
22:22Yeah, exactly.
22:22Because, you know, we don't want to go into the Strait of Hormuz.
22:25And we've got this enormous navy.
22:27We didn't plan to send enough destroyers to secure the Strait of Hormuz.
22:31That's the problem here, not the British.
22:32Yeah, we'll talk about that on the other side of the break.
22:35No one go anywhere.
22:36Coming up later in the show, the largest owner of TV stations in the country just got a whole lot
22:41bigger.
22:41How Trump's FCC chair got around the law to allow a media merger that is set to reshape local TV.
22:48But first off, after the break, it was once plastered on signs at his campaign rallies.
22:55Now, now the president may be rethinking how he talks about his core campaign issue.
23:00But will we see any real changes in his immigration policy?
23:04Our nightcap continues after this quick break.
23:12Donald Trump is reportedly rethinking his approach to his number one domestic policy issue.
23:18Sources tell the Wall Street Journal Trump has become convinced that some of his administration's deportation policies have gone too
23:24far.
23:25And voters don't like the term mass deportation.
23:28The president has told them he wants to see more attention on arresting bad guys and less chaos in American
23:35cities.
23:36We will have to wait and see what that actually means for ICE and Border Patrol operations.
23:41But White House spokesperson Abigail Jackson responded in part saying,
23:56The nightcap is still with us.
23:59So, Nikki, it's kind of telling that the president has seen what has happened in Minneapolis with the killing of
24:09Rene Good and Alex Preddy.
24:11He's seen the protests. He's seen how much it's animated people.
24:15And he probably also is aware that his numbers are not where they have to be if the president wants
24:21to achieve his, like, deportation goals.
24:23Politics, the politics of this are cratering for him.
24:26And he probably forgot that he actually had signs that said mass deportation is now at the RNC.
24:32And he's trying to juggle that.
24:34Yeah, it's a lot. I think it's a lot to deal with right now.
24:37He's like trying to rewrite, again, his campaign policies.
24:41I think it's important to remember that even throughout the first, like, 18 months of this administration,
24:46Trump does this every, every about four months.
24:49If you think back when these deportations started happening and hotel lobby,
24:55like, the entertainment industry started complaining, like, hey, you're deporting our workers.
24:59When farmers and the agricultural, agricultural industry started complaining, hey, you're deporting our workers.
25:05He made this big show about saying, no, no, no, that's not who we're going for.
25:08Hospitality as well.
25:08We're going to stop.
25:10And it resumed quietly a month later.
25:13I think what we're seeing right now is kind of one of those pauses.
25:16Clearly, what happened in Minneapolis was terrible to witness, terrible for the administration.
25:23Kristi Noem ended up kind of being the sacrificial lamb there.
25:25But I do think as much as the administration is trying to soften its rhetoric around deportations for Republicans down
25:33the ballot throughout the midterm cycle.
25:36They're looking back at 2024 and saying, OK, immigration was the thing that I could lean on.
25:44I could lean on to motivate my base.
25:46Now, you can't talk about the border because the border is closed and that problem has been solved.
25:52And if you say that the border is still a problem, you're criticizing the president.
25:56So where I have seen that rhetoric migrate to is the sort of explosion we've seen in the last month
26:03or so of Islamophobia, of attacks against the Muslim community.
26:07I'm seeing a lot of that anti-immigrant rhetoric that was primarily directed at Hispanics throughout the 2024 election cycle
26:13is now being transferred on to Muslim communities.
26:16And it's almost exactly the same template.
26:19They can still use it.
26:21They can still harp on the immigration, the othering of communities who are full of migrants without having to necessarily
26:27talk about Hispanic immigration and mass deportations.
26:30And the bottom line is, quite frankly, the Muslim American community is not a force in the political world.
26:36Like, they're not going to exact a cost the way that Latinos would after being, you know, as you said,
26:43attacked for a decade with failed immigration policies and this kind of like racist, xenophobic rhetoric.
26:48But let me ask you about whether the cosmetic shift of Mark Wayne Mullen will make a difference.
26:55Is his change, is Kristi Noem being fired, is Mark Wayne Mullen going to actually bring about a change in
27:03policy and rhetoric or just simply optics?
27:06I think just optics.
27:07I think he telegraphed that in his Senate hearing, basically saying that, you know, it's we don't I think he
27:12said something along the lines of we don't want to be on the front page every day anymore.
27:15I think that's his mission statement.
27:16We want to do it, but just quietly.
27:17We want to.
27:17Yeah, I mean, he's not like the way Kristi Noem was, you know, doing photo ops in front of prisoners
27:22in, you know, prisons.
27:24Like, I don't think Mark Wayne Mullen will be doing that.
27:26I think Mark Wayne Mullen's seen the folly of his predecessor.
27:31And it's a pretty it's a pretty easy path to not repeat.
27:34What I do wonder, and I don't know that Mark Wayne Mullen will have much influence on this, but so
27:39much of the administration's anti-migrant, anti-immigrant rhetoric comes from Stephen Miller.
27:45Yes.
27:46You know, and I don't know that Stephen Miller is going to moderate in any way or if the president
27:50has even asked him to.
27:51Right.
27:52And so you could say, oh, we don't want to use the phrase mass deportations anymore.
27:55You can say we want to tell the public we're only going after the most hardened criminals.
27:59But you've already had all this rhetoric about heritage Americans.
28:04Western civilization.
28:05And you've got Stephen Miller, you know, tweeting like off the handle, you know, things that like other, you know,
28:10public figures would probably not say.
28:12And I just don't know that that's the spigot to that kind of rhetoric is going to be turned off
28:17just so quickly just because they got a new DHS chief.
28:20Well, to your point, I think it was either today or yesterday.
28:23As quiet as the administration is trying to be about deportations, Stephen Miller was in Texas this week talking to
28:29lawmakers about how Texas is still their model for detentions and deportations.
28:35So, yeah, as they can put whoever at the helm of DHS.
28:39We'll try to have it both ways.
28:40It's going to be Stephen Miller.
28:41Yeah.
28:41But the polling is already through the floor.
28:44Like he's lost a lot of these Hispanic voters.
28:47And you look no further than Florida, where you're seeing Democratic Democratic mayors in places like Miami and parts of
28:54Florida where you haven't for 21 years.
28:56So, clearly, he's already alienated that group.
28:59And, look, Muslim voters, yeah, it's not, you know, it's not a huge group.
29:04But, like, in Michigan where there's a Senate seat, it is a huge group.
29:08And so I do think I don't know that you can put the genie back in the bottle.
29:12I think he's really reacting to polls.
29:15And, look, the optics of what happened in Minnesota are still really, that's months ago.
29:21And you're still, you know, there's still, like, it's in the culture.
29:24Like, we saw two American citizens murdered in cold blood.
29:29Oh, I think it's seared into the psyche of the American people.
29:31And I think it's going to be an animating factor that I don't think Americans are going to walk from
29:35easily.
29:35I think it's something that is going to haunt Americans as they go into the polls to think that Americans
29:39were gunned down.
29:41And we've seen the videos, right?
29:42I don't think anyone is really convinced of the narrative that the administration tried to put forward.
29:47But it will be interesting to see what happens in Florida if the president, as he has said, we're going
29:51to take Cuba next.
29:52Or I'm going to do something about Cuba next and see whether or not there's a political calculation in that
29:57motivation.
29:58We're going to squeeze in a quick break.
29:59When we come back, the FCC chair just approved a mega merger in local TV stations that will allow one
30:05Trump-friendly company to reach 80 percent, 80 percent of American homes, even though the law does not allow it.
30:13We're going to get into that after the break.
30:20All right, so tonight, eight states filed an emergency motion to block the merger of local television giants Nexstar and
30:27Tegna.
30:28The deal would create the largest operator of local TV stations in the country.
30:33We are talking 265 local television stations in 44 states, as well as the District of Columbia.
30:41The FCC allowed the $6.2 billion deal to close yesterday.
30:47Now, under federal law, the TV station ownership cap is limited to 39 percent of homes per company.
30:53The combined company will now reach roughly 80 percent of American homes.
30:59Nexstar, you might remember, became a favorite of Trump FCC chair Brendan Carr when it temporarily pulled Jimmy Kimmel's show
31:05off the air last year.
31:07Nexstar's chairman and CEO has thanked President Trump, FCC chairman Brendan Carr and the DOJ for allowing the merger to
31:14go forward.
31:15The nightcap is still with us.
31:18So, David, what are the consequences going to look like if this deal is not blocked?
31:22Censorship, potentially.
31:24We saw that with Jimmy Kimmel and that's what and like and monopoly, an anti-capitalist concentration of so much
31:31resources in one place.
31:32And the broad theme that I see tonight from Iran to immigration to this merger is hypocrisy, incompetence in terms
31:43of how they're like carrying out and overplaying their hands, overdoing it.
31:47That so much of the immigration, I mean, they had won that issue politically, but they had to be so
31:52aggressive and own the libs and everything else.
31:55In this case, an 80 percent ownership and where they're engaging in censorship themselves and then the chaos in terms
32:01of Iran.
32:02It's it's it's all very Trumpian.
32:04But I just think this, you know, it'll be censorship.
32:07We'll talk more about this later, but has to do with my MVP.
32:11But I I think it's backfiring on this this Trumpian way of governing so badly and consistently.
32:20David says censorship.
32:21I think there's also an element of propaganda here.
32:23Right. And I think the way that you see this administration behaving with plastering Trump's face on government buildings, putting
32:30his money on coins, putting his name on the Kennedy Center,
32:33and now allowing this type of merger to happen by favorable local news stations where these news stations get, I
32:42would argue, some editorial directive from their owners and certainly from, you know, the CEOs on downwards.
32:51Right. Right. I mean, I think it's sort of the mob boss kind of government.
32:55Right. Antitrust, not for us, not for our guys.
32:58You know, a lot of putting their finger on the scale.
33:00Look, the regulatory process is still going to have to go like all this stuff keeps getting kicked up to
33:05the courts.
33:05I think what's so important about what you see here is that a lot of times we see people obey
33:11in advance.
33:11We see very wealthy people obey in advance when if they would just fight it, they would win.
33:17And so I think that's worked really well for this administration.
33:20But ultimately, it doesn't have to be like this.
33:24And I think that is probably the most disturbing.
33:27We're seeing this kind of landscape shift in American media.
33:31And how do you think it will affect the broader landscape of media in America when this deal goes through?
33:39I mean, I think American media in general is in a really dangerous, dangerous position right now.
33:44The other major merger taking place at the moment is sort of the Paramount CBS, CNN situation,
33:49where you might have, what, like three of the major news networks in the country under the control of one
33:55very vocally Republican family.
33:58And we could expect, if that merger goes through, that the process we're currently seeing taking place at CBS,
34:04where it's very clear that that network is being reshaped in the image of Trump in order to be more
34:10favorable to the administration,
34:12would probably take place at CNN.
34:14And then I think one of the most disturbing things I've seen from just a media critique perspective in recent
34:20weeks
34:20is Pete Hegseth standing in the Pentagon telling a CNN reporter,
34:25I cannot wait until Keith Ellison buys you.
34:28Sorry, Molly, go ahead.
34:29No, I just was going to say the one thing that I think is so interesting about this,
34:33that was you see CBS evening broadcast under four million.
34:36So, like, they may try, you may build it, but there are, people won't necessarily come for MAGA light.
34:42But destroying the institution might be part of the idea.
34:45Right, and that, I think that's more important.
34:47I think it's about destroying the institution and managing the crime.
34:50So, speaking of destroying an institution, CBS just shut down its radio service, 100 years old.
34:57Yeah.
34:59That is soul-crushing, I think, when you think of just what CBS once used to be.
35:05And it does speak to what we're discussing here, which is the shuttering of local papers, local stations,
35:14iconic radio stations like CBS Radio, and more consolidation at the top.
35:19Right.
35:20And, you know, it's important when we talk about that consolidation that Brendan Carr has basically been like a giddy
35:26MAGA Hall monitor for the last year,
35:28digging up archaic regulations, using anything to wield as a cudgel, threatening the view for being, you know,
35:35and threatening news organizations for, quote-unquote, hoaxes.
35:39Yeah.
35:39And at the same time, he's completely ignored the federal law that forbids this much ownership of television stations.
35:49Like, that federal law just completely gets waived.
35:51And the lone Democrat on the FCC, Anna Gomez, said in a statement, like, this all happened behind closed doors.
35:58Like, the American people should know that whatever this deal was made,
36:02the reason that the two Republicans on the FCC rubber-stamped this deal, we won't know.
36:07There has been no transparency.
36:08I was going to say, I can only imagine what the Republican outrage would be if two Democratic billionaires
36:13were kind of trying to buy up dozens of social media, digital media, cable news channels, print channels.
36:21Yeah.
36:22We'd be in investigations for months.
36:25We'd be in hearings every day.
36:27Please know I can't handle any more.
36:28Exactly.
36:29But I do think this reflects a wider environment of anti-competitiveness that isn't just, it's not unique to the
36:35media.
36:35It's tech.
36:36It's everything.
36:38Everyone stay put.
36:39When we come back, it is time for everyone to share their MVPs of the week.
36:42We'll tell you about that.
36:50It is time now for our MVPs of the week.
36:53In no particular order, we will start with you, David.
36:56Who's your MVP?
36:57You alluded to it earlier in the show.
36:59It has to do with free speech.
37:01So my MVP is a longtime lawyer, sort of co-MVPs for The New York Times, David McCraw.
37:06He brought the lawsuit that was ruled on today by a federal judge, and the judge ruled it had to
37:12do with the Pentagon and these new restrictions on reporters where they could go on the Pentagon.
37:16So the co-MVP is Paul Friedman, this federal judge from Buffalo, New York.
37:20He ruled that these new regulations were a violation of the First Amendment.
37:24In the Fifth Amendment, they applied them unequally.
37:26James O'Keefe, the far-right guy, got to keep his past, even though he's been convicted of trespassing and
37:32deceit.
37:32But I just want to quote, the decision was really moving, and he just talked about the importance of how,
37:37you know, having free speech actually protects us in terms of national security, how going to war is such a
37:43serious thing.
37:43But he said this principle of free speech has preserved the nation's security for almost 250 years.
37:50It must not be abandoned now.
37:52So he has thrown out these press restrictions.
37:55He said the New York Times and other reporters should be allowed back in the Pentagon, and Pete Hexeth lost.
38:01All right, Nikki, give it to us.
38:03Who's your MVP?
38:04All right, I'm going to cheat.
38:04First of all, congratulations to the San Antonio Spurs.
38:07We're going to the playoffs.
38:07It's been six years.
38:09My actual MVP is Afro Man.
38:12Oh, man.
38:13This was fascinating.
38:14Yes, I cannot explain it as well as just telling people to go watch the videos.
38:19Please read up on it.
38:21But the reason I wanted to talk about it is because at the center of this case is the right
38:26to film, document, and criticize the police.
38:29And I think this year, this last year in particular, has shown that that right, the right you have to
38:35document what the police do, to share it, to comment on it, to, in the case of Afro Man, satirize
38:41it to the point of I cry tears at my desk at work showing it to people.
38:45Well, it's important because we wouldn't have gotten so much of the accountability we got from the Trump administration, from
38:52federal law enforcement agencies, from state law enforcement agencies, if this right was not protected.
38:57And we are in a time period right now where it is absolutely a right they are trying to take
39:02away from you, even if it means hiding their faces, not showing you their badge numbers.
39:05So go listen to Afro Man.
39:08Think about your rights.
39:09And also an important reminder of how arts and culture and music play an important role in our society, not
39:15just for entertainment, but for accountability.
39:17All right, Anthony, who you got?
39:18My MVP of the week is St. John's University men's basketball coach Rick Pitino, one of the greatest basketball coaches
39:25of all time, certainly in college basketball.
39:27I grew up a St. John's fan in the era of Chris Mullen and Mark Jackson and even Ron Artest.
39:33And the program was dormant.
39:35Metta World Peace.
39:35Yes, Metta World Peace program was dormant for several decades until Coach Pitino arrived about three years ago.
39:41And now they are back in the tournament for the second year in a row.
39:45The expectations are high.
39:47But the thing is, New York City ultimately is a basketball town.
39:50Yeah.
39:51And it's not a real big college sports town.
39:53But if there is one college team that this city does unite around, it is St. John's.
39:57It's been a real long time since they matter.
39:59Coach Pitino made them matter again.
40:00Thank you, Coach Pitino.
40:01And they have a big match coming up against, you said, Kansas?
40:04Kansas, yeah, they won tonight.
40:05So they'll be playing Kansas in the second round on Sunday.
40:07All right.
40:07Good luck to St. John's.
40:08All right, Molly.
40:09Mine has caveats.
40:10Okay.
40:11Okay.
40:11Molly, there's always exceptions with you, Molly.
40:13You can't just follow the rules, Molly.
40:15Never.
40:15Okay.
40:16So it pains me to say this, Rand Paul.
40:20Okay.
40:20He's a libertarian.
40:21I don't agree with anything he says.
40:23But he did today.
40:24You know, he did with the hearings with Mark Wayne Wellen.
40:26He talked about political violence.
40:28He talked about how bad it is.
40:29Then he refused to vote Mark Wayne out of committee, which is more than John Fetterman.
40:36I know.
40:36I know.
40:37And so for that, you know, we're seeing the only Republicans who are really standing up
40:43are the libertarians, and we've got to give them that.
40:45Absolutely.
40:46All right.
40:46Nobody go anywhere.
40:47When we come back, my MVP of the week is next.
40:55My MVP of the week, oil companies.
40:58The Iran war is causing energy prices to soar, which will result in massive profits for them.
41:03One analysis found that U.S. oil producers could get as much as $63 billion in a boost.
41:11Trump even posted on True Social recently saying, quote,
41:13The United States is the largest oil producer in the world by far.
41:18So when oil prices go up, we make a lot of money.
41:21Not talking about the consumers there.
41:23Well, the oil companies certainly do.
41:25You, me, everyone else who drives a car, a small business.
41:28Yeah, not so much.
41:30And it's not just domestic oil companies that are profiting from this war.
41:34Russia got a huge boost after U.S. lifted sanctions on Russian oil.
41:38And now the U.S. is considering doing the same on Iran.
41:43You know, the country that we are bombing, the one that we're actually at war with,
41:48we may unsanction their oil.
41:50Now, all of this, as Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu,
41:54announced that he wants oil and gas to flow through Israel,
41:58through new pipelines that would avoid threats by Iran in the Strait of Hormuz
42:02and other passages in the Middle East.
42:04I wonder what is going on in the Strait of Hormuz.
42:08So congrats to all the oil companies who get to cash in
42:11while you and me and everybody else pays more at the pump this weekend.
42:16David, Nikki, Anthony, Molly, thank you all so much.
42:19And on that note, I wish you a good night.
42:21You can catch me and my colleagues, Antonia Hilton, Catherine Rempel,
42:25and Elyse Jordan on our show, The Weekend Primetime,
42:28Saturdays and Sundays from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. Eastern, right here on MS Now.
42:33From all of our colleagues across the network, thanks for staying up late.
42:37See you this weekend.
42:38All away.
42:40.
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