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00:00in frustration the sabers keep roaring breaking barriers 32 6 and 2 in their last 40
00:07the sabers say that's the best 40 game stretch in the nhl in 30 years since the red wings hang
00:16a banner no bulldog we're not about that we're not ready to hang a banner we are ready to talk
00:21to matt larkin from daily face off been a frequent guest of our over the hours over the years glad
00:26to have you back matt and especially because it's like for the first time probably since we've ever
00:32met fun times around here oh gentlemen it's great to be on you guys always keep me on my toes
00:39i love
00:39it and i have to say i've been looking longingly down the qew wondering about playoff hockey at
00:45key bank for the last i guess now three months really yeah i've been sort of curious the sabers
00:51were in there in toronto a while ago and kind of did a number on them and with the way
00:57the toronto
00:57season has gone and with the way the buffalo season is going i i'm always like sort of like to
01:04be
01:04clued into like how media and fans are handling the situation you know like it's it's such a foreign
01:11concept to see the standings flip the way they're flipped here literally toronto's in last buffalo is
01:17in first how um i don't know how do you think toronto fans are handling this buffalo emergence
01:24well i feel like the sabers story has transcended rivalry you know and when the sabers were in town
01:30last i was in the sabers room and just seeing the vibe among the team the likability the way
01:35all of rasmus dalene's teammates were speaking so lovingly about him with everything he went through
01:40and just 15 years the drought and you look at even just the td ratings the olympics and how
01:46buffalo performed there as a market it's just very hard not to root for this team in this story
01:52and i think that even markets that theoretically would be rivals of the sabers are saying hey
01:57you guys have earned it they're an exciting team they're an easy team to like and this market deserves
02:02a winner yeah that's very similar to what i read from sean mackendu today about again what was his
02:09word bandwagoning people getting on the sabers bandwagon because there's so much to like about it i like
02:15how you put it matt transcending the rivalry and i'm glad to hear it because it really is i think
02:20even to almost all of us shocking that this has happened would you say that about yourself we talked
02:27to ej raddick now i'm dropping all the names bulldog i'm sorry we talked to ej a couple weeks ago
02:33and i
02:34asked him a similar question just like how shocked are you by all of this with the sabers and he
02:40said
02:40only so much because for a couple of years i've really liked their roster so i guess he would he
02:47was saying he kind of thought it was a team that was capable maybe not of 32 6 and 2
02:52or whatever that
02:53is but you know success and what would you say for yourself in this way i would say if it
03:00was a
03:01couple years ago i would say no i'm not shocked because that was when we had cage breaking out and
03:05the team was trending in the right direction under don granado and you had the near miss of the
03:11playoffs and it felt like okay the next logical step is to get through but then everything collapsed
03:17and we had a gm fired midway through this season so of course morale was at an all-time low
03:22and i
03:22had reached the point where it was kind of okay you have to show me for me to believe anything
03:27at this
03:27point and i think what's extra shocking about this group is that so much of the core is the same
03:33group
03:33that's been around throughout a lot of this losing right of course there have been small tweaks there
03:38ryan mccloud coming in of course josh stone and kesselring the peterka trade but overall a lot of
03:42these guys were there for a lot of the losing and are now still there as they come out of
03:48it and to
03:48me that's one of the most fascinating parts about this team yeah i mean have you ever seen a general
03:53manager bump like we know about the head coach bump right but this um this winning streak uh this 30
04:0132
04:02six and two dates back to an overtime game they won in edmonton um in early december and that road
04:10trip that now adams got fired when they got home from that trip there were that was the midpoint of
04:15the trip and there were a couple more games of course they won them all came home and the change
04:19was made and they just kept going but word was out like we were all in town here that week
04:25while they
04:26were out west losing in calgary and then winning that overtime game at edmonton like bracing for change
04:31and lindy ruff was even a part of that but anyway the point is how many times in history can
04:37you look
04:37back and say the gm got fired and the team took off it's a weird one but that's really what
04:43happened
04:43here it's true especially because gm firings are pretty rare in season because they're such a big
04:49picture thing and i think what's extra fascinating about the storyline is it's forced us to relitigate
04:56some of the moves that kevin had has made like for example of course we can go with the don't
05:00kesselring trade it's like oh geez wait a second he a lot of these moves have paid off and of
05:06course
05:06i'm sure we'll get into it but you know as has been brought up with me many times by the
05:10fan base
05:10ryan mcleod that trade has worked out really well in the end right so all these moves from kevin adams
05:16it's like wait a second he kind of built this team even though i think there's a lot of confidence
05:22in
05:22yarmulke kalainen and and the direction he's going to take the team but it's weird because you almost
05:26feel like you don't i don't want to say apology to kevin adams but you feel a little sorry for
05:31him
05:31because a lot of this was his work yeah he unquestionably built the team i mean they you
05:36know the trade deadline happened and there's a couple of you know role players now stanley on
05:40the back end shen is a break glass in case of emergency carrick has fit right in on the fourth
05:46line but no the yeah the team was absolutely and you know funny enough kesselring is a spare part
05:52doan is the rock star of that trade and already got a lucrative extension uh out of it and you
05:57know adams wanted him too so it's not like that's a that's a you know stick in the spokes of
06:02the idea
06:03that he built the team um he insisted on doan coming in that trade and that really paid off so
06:08yeah i mean he um he he undeniably will deserve some he deserves some credit some level of credit
06:16but i think it's too much of a coincidence that they took off as soon as he was gone
06:22yeah i think you have to look at it as i think the culture changed and i think even if
06:28it's
06:28subconscious for the players i think the sense that okay ownership is not going to tolerate
06:32this forever and we need to make something change and i think that might have lit a spark
06:38it kind of reminds me a little bit too if you look at the chicago blackhawks dale tallon built a
06:42lot of
06:43that nucleus and then stan moment comes in and they finally break through and then the stanley cup in 2010
06:47with the different gm even though the previous gem had made a lot of those moves so there is a
06:51precedent for it happening i don't know if you're superstitious if that means we're going to see
06:55this buffalo team go really far but it'll be fascinating to see what happens well i definitely
07:00want to get into the the landscape in the you know the playoff mix and talk about that too
07:06they did have and bulldog and i matt have talked about this almost every day since this phenomenon has
07:12occurred they did have yarmo kekeleinan on staff and the sabers have not had a gm who had ever been
07:19a gm since who john muckler maybe does he count i mean scotty bowman like almost everybody they've had
07:27run the ship here had never had the job before and almost almost all of them never had the job
07:32again
07:33as it happens so credibility is a big point in this and kekeleinan was kind of like on deck you
07:40know
07:40for this do you have thoughts on him i mean i i knew who he was from columbus but it's
07:45you know
07:45sorry columbus like it wasn't a team that really accomplished a lot so i didn't know what to think
07:50when the sabers brought him on yeah i mean i've had lots of dealings with yarmo over the years so
07:56i'm
07:56pretty familiar with him um i think in terms of what the book is on yarmo it's he's a lifelong
08:02hockey
08:02man and he spent a lot of time before he was even with columbus right he worked as director of
08:08player personnel with ottawa senators he was in st louis blues scouting department director of
08:12amateur scouting for them assistant gm he has had a lot of experience decades of experience
08:16especially on the scouting side so i think there's a lot of confidence his ability to evaluate players
08:22whether that's picks or players on his own team and i think you could say he did a lot with
08:28a little
08:28in columbus it wasn't like he was gifted these absolutely stacked rosters or maxed out payrolls
08:34every season and i think he helped that team overachieve right columbus that team won 16 games
08:39in a row at one point one of those years that he was controlling the blue jackets and i also
08:44think he
08:45can relative to the market was a pretty aggressive gm right he made a move from marion gabrick one year
08:49he bought matthew shane at the trade deadline one year and that year i think that was the same year
08:55they upset upset the 62 win ten of bay lightning team so i i think that even though yarmo has
09:01not
09:01broken through and and helmed the team that's won it all he has a lot of experience and i think
09:07you could argue he has more to work with in terms of the starting point talent wise than he's ever
09:12had
09:12when he when he first took a job in the nhl matt larkin from daily face off our guest here
09:17on the
09:17west her hotline so that i've been following along the series you've been doing this week
09:22about looking ahead to the playoffs and like what what it takes to be you know what what sort of
09:27traits
09:27do teams that have won the cup over the last i think it was last 10 years you've been focused
09:31on
09:31um how how do you think this sabers team and how they're playing um translates to the postseason
09:41yeah absolutely i can give you a partial answer because the series isn't done yet so i don't
09:45want to totally spoil it um but just for a little background it's called stanley cup ingredients i've
09:49been doing it for five years i take a 10-year snapshot i've identified seven traits that are common
09:55most common among the stanley cup winners and i check every year okay which teams have those
10:00traits i also check if the traits are still strong correlations because you're looking at
10:04a new 10-year sample every year so i can say so far the buffalo sabers penalty killing is very
10:11good
10:11this season and that part has not come out in the series yet but that is one of the strongest
10:16traits
10:16that correlates with winning and uh goaltending is important now in terms of the game's played
10:23threshold if you look at alex lion and i don't think either of them has met the threshold to
10:29qualify for the study but obviously alex lion in particular has been one of the best goalies in
10:33the league this year so you could argue that what they have going in that tandem it should qualify
10:39them for checking that box as well to me it's going to be interesting what do you do who do
10:44you start
10:44between the two because there is a precedent in the playoffs teams that trust one starter tend to go
10:50further just historically so that's going to be a very interesting decision to make in buffalo
10:55are there teams that don't do that are there teams anymore we've had a tough one with this too like
11:01trying to figure out what is likely here are there teams that alternate in the playoffs at all
11:07i mean it's pretty rare at least yeah it's pretty rare i mean the carolina hurricanes would be
11:12an example uh the boston bruins with all mark and swayman and a couple years back as well
11:17but it can even if you have two good goal centers it's almost like the idea that one is always
11:22looking over his shoulder seems to have a psychological effect and if you look at teams
11:26that win the stanley cup a disproportionate number have a single goalie who won between 13 and 16 of
11:32those games that's i did a study on that years ago and that was the trend and i believe it
11:36still
11:36is the case yeah i mean certainly we've seen i mean bobrowski going in for alex lion funny enough
11:41three years ago is an example of a team that used to carolina back in 06 used to but it
11:48was
11:49not an alternating situation right it's more like this guy oh well we're down it's not working put the
11:56other guy in right that year with lion in florida he was red hot down the stretch so they just
12:02sort
12:03of like hey well he's the guy and then they lost two games and went nope and bobrowski went in
12:08and
12:08never came out um that's not alternating goalies that's you know pulling you're placing right it's
12:14it's different the sabers have been truly alternating here for most of this season when when those guys
12:20have been healthy anyway yes exactly so you say another example i was going to say was 2007 anaheim
12:27ducks jsg care had an emergency had to leave for a couple games briskalov comes in but it was still
12:31jaguar's net right right um but it's going to be interesting yes it's a true tandem with upl and
12:37alice lion and i think both being pretty consistently great during this run i don't know
12:43who you give the edge to my gut says lion has a bit more of the veteran savvy he's at
12:47least started
12:48some playoff games right not many just that one run and only the first few games of the series but
12:52he's at least seen those bright lights against a big market team in boston um so i i think i
12:59would
12:59lean that way but it's really a coin flip and you may have to base it on who has the
13:03better april going in
13:05flurry and matt murray one year in pittsburgh when they won it that was a conversation you know like
13:11who should start uh 17 maybe with matt larkin matt i've made this point to all our hockey guests like
13:19i just i think it's so interesting from the standpoint of being a sabers fan and talking
13:25about them and following them my entire life they've really never had a team like this where
13:31defensively they're so strong and deep and talented really the sabers history is not that
13:37at all it's the french connection it's hashek it's the exciting up tempo teams from out of the lockout
13:45and you know that's not the whole list but it's it's most the list of their you know their contenders
13:50in 50 some years but how about their makeup i'm not sure it's going to be one of your traits
13:56or even
13:56how to measure it uh we're coming off back-to-back shutouts on the road here with different goalies
14:01they are tough to penetrate with who they are on defense i think you're absolutely right and it is
14:09such a change you know i think of 99 and dominic haswick carrying that team to the final and jason
14:14woolley was the leading scorer on that team it really shows you how much the identities change
14:19but i think when people talk to me about the sabers the thing i always point out is oh my
14:23god they're so
14:24deep and i think a big part of it is matthias samuelson really getting back on track and finding
14:30offense in this game this year has really changed the identity of the defense and obviously bringing
14:35in logan stanley and luke shen it deepens the group a lot but they just have i i think a
14:41really
14:41well-rounded group whether it's own power bone by arm all these guys have size all these guys can
14:46skate they can defend but they have some offense in the game so it's not like you're one-dimensional
14:51with many of your your combinations of permutations and pairings you can put out there
14:55and i think you have to give credit for what they have up the middle i really on at forward
15:00as well
15:00in terms of this depth because to me it's the middle six when josh norris is healthy yeah and
15:05ryan cloud he's being a capable second line center when norris is out but he also has been so good
15:10that
15:10you can play in there when norris is in the lineup and you have whether it's you know you could
15:15flip them
15:15on different lines but the fact that those are your two centers in the middle six it's it really speaks
15:20to the forward depth that they've cultivated now too yeah i feel like norris is such a such an
15:25integral piece here you know the we had a dalliance before the trade deadline with the sabers trading
15:31for robert thomas and i felt like that was an effort i don't know if norris would have ultimately maybe
15:36even been included in that deal the money might might have necessitated it i don't know and maybe
15:41that's why it fell apart but i feel like last year matt ottawa traded norris away for dylan cousins
15:49and wanted you know certainly they're not getting norris is the better player when he's healthy
15:54more productive just 200 foot player and cousins is nice i felt like they were trading away
16:00norris to get someone they knew they could count on being in the lineup whereas norris is just always
16:04in and out in and out and that's still been the case here he's he's on a stretch here since
16:09the
16:10olympic break where he's been in all these games but he's missed more of the season than he's played
16:15and i sort of am holding my breath that he can hold up because i think that depth really takes
16:21a huge hit if he's not there it does and it's been tough to watch because he is such an
16:27interesting
16:27player his career average he averages 31 goals per 82 games he's above average on face-offs he's a
16:34really accurate shooter as well like career shooting percentage north of 18 that's like leon dry set a
16:39level accuracy so there's so many different things that he does well that's why to me he's such an
16:44interesting player shoots buck a lot he's also more physical than he gets credit for too
16:49but it's just walking a tightrope right when he's had so many injuries and repeated injuries to the
16:54same body part with the shoulder you just never know the wrong hit at the wrong time and obviously
16:58the playoff atmosphere is going to be more physical can he hold up to it we don't know but i
17:04think
17:04what's different now is this team is deep it is so deep that even if you lose norris for stretches
17:11i
17:11think they can survive i mean they've proven they literally have done that without him right
17:14and i think it's credit to ryan mcleod the fact that again i infamously labeled him you know a
17:20career bottom sixer but i think he's proven he's more than that he can elevate and be a number two
17:25guy
17:25and i think that's totally changed the makeup of the lineup and they've proven they can they can
17:29survive without norris and because of that it's okay and it's great when you do have him in the
17:34a few minutes left with matt larkin dailyfaceoff.com so matt the east tampa has been like the alpha
17:43here of late i mean florida dropped off so i can say that toronto also out of the mix this
17:50year
17:50uh we saw we've seen a couple of times the sabers and the lightning what that looks like when they're
17:54together and it was madness the last time eight seven and fights and everything i mean i think a lot
18:00of us thought tampa tried to send a message that day and i don't know if they were successful they
18:05lost the game the sabers held up to them physically how would you compare the sabers to the lightning
18:11and also carolina these are the two teams that far it seems by the betting markets and it i guess
18:17it's
18:17not surprising uh outrank the sabers for chances of going to the finals is the idea of the sabers
18:25beating one or both of those teams so far-fetched it's not um i think particularly when it comes to
18:32carolina i think i see more flaws in the hurricanes even though analytically they always grade out
18:37super well the hurricanes have the weakness in goal right brandon bussey was a great story all year
18:42but the house of cards is suddenly crumbling at the wrong time and i think that's a possible
18:49liability for the hurricanes as it has been for several several playoff runs whereas the sabers have
18:53gotten great goaltending all year i think tampa's a different beast even though that one game oh my
18:57god that was maybe the best regular season game i've ever seen and buffalo came out on top but
19:02tampa bay and as you'll see i'll spoil my series with the standing cup ingredients but they're going
19:07to pop up over and over the lightning are just such a well-rounded team they do so many things
19:11well
19:11their special teams are great and i think in andre vasilevsky alone they have such an advantage over
19:16the rest of the playoff field just in the sense of he's playing extremely well just like the sabers
19:22goaltenders are as well but in vasilevsky's case he's done it time and again he's won the
19:26consummate trophy he's won two stanley cups he's going to be a hall of famer he's proven he's great
19:31in elimination games so i think the lightning just in terms of the top end talent and also just the
19:37experience you have to give them the edge with buffalo you have to understand that they've been
19:42the dominant force and they've earned all of their flowers this season but when they get in when a team
19:47has not played in the playoffs and has a lot of players who haven't been in that environment before
19:51it's going to be a little different there's going to be a learning curve and i think what really is
19:55going to be uh important to watch is whether the goaltending can hold up because if you look under
19:59the hood in terms of just scoring chance generation play driving those type of statistics buffalo is a
20:06bit more mediocre there and they've been bullied a little bit by goaltending so if lion or lucan and
20:12are both if they regress a little bit they might be exposing the team a little bit as well so
20:17i'm still
20:18bullish on buffalo uh pun intended there um but if you're comparing them to tampa bay i think you'd
20:24still have to pick the lightning to beat them if they ever meet in the seven game series you know
20:28we don't have time here obviously to run through all the other contending teams but my curiosity in
20:33the east matt currently is the team that's five points out ottawa um i feel like they i i would
20:42like to avoid playing them in favor of boston montreal or detroit all three of them i feel
20:48like ottawa is they've been good all year and just goaltending has undone them i mean they got work to
20:54do they got their five points out of a spot uh to get there um how do you feel about
20:59them their
20:59chances of getting in and and making noise if they do get in yeah i think that's a fair point
21:05to make
21:06about them being dangerous um they're such a confounding team they've been the best defensive team in the
21:10entire nhl at five on five this year their goaltending has been the worst in the entire
21:15league so it's completely torpedoed their season also their penalty killing has been terrible it's
21:19right at the bottom of the league too so they have a couple major flaws that are kind of ruining
21:24what
21:24should be a good season like this team should be pretty dominant based on what happens at five
21:29on five in terms of the chances they allow and generate so if let's say lenis ulmark gets hot yes
21:35ottawa could be pretty dangerous i also think the islanders could be dangerous because
21:39nancy schaefer is so dynamic and ilia sorokin he's he's the definition of the type of goalie
21:44who could steal a series and i think the number one team i'd be trying to avoid is columbus right
21:49now they're up into third so they wouldn't be in a potential matchup but everything is so tight
21:54it's changing every day columbus definitely could finish in a wild card spot they've been so good
22:00since rick bonus took over and i really like what jet greaves has done in net for them too really
22:04athletic goaltender one of the smallest goals in the league but he's really good so i think columbus is
22:09pretty dangerous interesting i gotta think about them i never do yeah that happened there i mean
22:15they don't have no they're no 32 six and two or whatever the sabers are in 40 games but it's
22:20like
22:2017 two and three or something since bonus took over i mean they're on a pretty serious heater
22:25crazy yeah all right matt well great to catch up with you again today uh here's to a fun playoff
22:31season thank you absolutely guys always lots of fun thanks for having me you're welcome matt
22:37matt larkin dailyfaceoff.com mike show up in the bulldog here 803 05
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