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00:00Hello, I'm Angela Scanlon and welcome to The Apprentice Unfinished Business, where we'll
00:04be digging into all the post-task weeds and the predictable boardroom blunders.
00:09And if you haven't caught up yet, pop over to BBC iPlayer to watch episode 5 of The Apprentice.
00:15Coming up, Lord Sugar tells us exactly how he would have pruned and prodded and perfected
00:21the whole bloomin' thing. Plus, fired candidate Vanessa reflects on her time in the process
00:26from the highs to the proper prickly bits. And I won't be tending this garden alone.
00:31I'm joined by my Celeb Apprentice teammate Shazia Mirza and he's back by popular demand,
00:38Mike Soutar. It is time for The Apprentice Unfinished Business.
00:46Shazia and Mike, welcome!
00:49Really nice to meet you!
00:50And it feels so good. Back with the old crew, hey?
00:56We were obviously on the Christmas special of The Apprentice.
01:00Oh, some bad memories though, yeah?
01:02Is it a little triggering for you?
01:03It is. Oh, we had a laugh. I think it's really good too. We're reunited.
01:07We had a ball and we won!
01:09Well, listen, you guys had a laugh. I had to go around making notes.
01:14You had a laugh at our expense.
01:16Well, yes. Yes, I certainly had an arched eyebrow.
01:19Right, well, we get on to this week's task. It started a little differently. Shall we remind ourselves?
01:26Hello. Good morning.
01:28Could you ask the candidates to meet me out there in the garden, yeah?
01:32Yes, let's go.
01:33OK.
01:36GO!
01:38Go on!
01:39Guy!
01:40Roshi Disances.
01:42Roshi Disances!
01:44Stop it!
01:44Oh no!
01:46Why would you do that for me?
01:48I've not even got my nice pyjamas on.
01:51I've not even got my nice pyjamas on!
01:53She left her negligee at home. She's at work.
01:55how would you feel Shazzy about being doorstepped in the chalet in Lapland by Lord Sugar I cannot
02:02believe they open the door because nobody opens the door these days that we would not have opened
02:07the door we would have looked at Lord Sugar on our camera phones and gone no no we're not opening
02:11we're not opening the door everybody pretend you're asleep I cannot believe this must be a
02:17new thing opening the door I know that's so true isn't it Mike is that his usual thing does he
02:22tend
02:22to you know not rock up for an early morning strategy session well I said I have personal
02:28experience of this I went from meeting with him a couple of months ago at his offices and the meeting
02:33time was 9 a.m so I got there parked in his car park at 8 30 a.m walked
02:39in he had been there since 7 30
02:43doing properly doing business like when I arrived at his office properly doing business he was he was
02:50giving some it sounded like constructive advice or direction to somebody on the phone oh well I get
02:57that from a moment on a weekly basis we've got a voice note it's still going Mike you were here
03:03at
03:03one Lord Sugar was sending voice memos now we're playing them at pace Angela selling flowers should
03:11be straightforward but once again simplicity went out of the window for one of the teams bouquets
03:19don't need reinventing they need selling Rothner impressed me because she stayed profit focused from
03:27the start that's business margin first petals second Vanessa's team worked hard on the selling side
03:36but their cost strategy was all over the place and as for the corporate client it was about as high
03:43fashion as a high viz jacket a lesson price right savage sell confidently never forget a pretty product
03:52means nothing if it doesn't make money look he doesn't mince his words does he he's not known for
04:00it I think when it comes to this particular task you know there are only a certain number of bouquets
04:05that anybody's ever going to buy yeah so I think probably Vanessa's mistake here was if you're going
04:12to create something where the raw materials are more expensive you need to first think about what
04:19you're going to sell it at so if she'd gone in with a premium bouquet which was what the flowers
04:24said it
04:24was she really had to be selling it at 70 pounds that would have given her the margin then if
04:30they could
04:30have done the volume it would have gone from there so clear kind of leaders from the start Rothner led
04:36team eclipse with the garden bouquet and then we had Vanessa and she led team alpha with the tropical
04:42bouquet there were questions over whether tropical was the right way to go from the start they were
04:48raised by Connor and she was quite certain that that was where she was going Vanessa strikes me as
04:56somebody who has a vision and I think that's really powerful it's really important in business to know
05:01what it is that you're going to deliver so she wanted to do something which was distinctive and
05:06different to the rest of the marketplace and often that can be really really successful um but she
05:12wasn't listening to Connor I mean if you if you watch what Connor was saying throughout that whole task
05:16he was kind of the voice of common sense you know but that's a bit expensive but you know he
05:22was just
05:22frowning and writing down numbers in his notebook as the cost of the bouquet kept rising and rising and
05:28rising yeah yeah because it was a profit task and it seemed like the creative juices flowed and all sense
05:38of profit went out the window and it caused a lot of stress I think for the team because Vanessa
05:44it seemed
05:45wanted to you know be everywhere I mean I think she was amazing in the sense that she was so
05:52brave
05:52as the only one to elect herself as leader despite a lack of experience yes because she said does
05:59anybody else want to be lead nobody was forthcoming or enthusiastic so she was very okay I'll do it and
06:05then was very enthusiastic about that yeah and you know putting yourself forward as a leader when you
06:11have no experience in that field that was a brave thing to do to stick your head above the parapet
06:17like
06:17that but this is a profit task Mike so what does it all come down what does success look like
06:23in a
06:23task like this so I think in business terms this is value creation right so you buy raw materials at
06:29the cheapest price you possibly can and then you add value to it in this case by creating a bouquet
06:35or a
06:35bespoke backdrop and then you charge a premium for that so I think that that was Rothner got that from
06:42the very beginning didn't she oh she was focused on that price and keeping it as low as humanly
06:48possible exactly and so she thought strategically about what she was putting together into that
06:52bunch of flowers and what she managed to do with use of foliage or foliage as we'll now always call
07:02it
07:02you pay a premium for foliage yes if you say it in French you're 10% on top but but
07:08what I think
07:09she did really cleverly was she created something that was substantial enough so it looked like
07:14really good value so she added value to something and that was the thing that got them the premium
07:20that got them the margin that won them the task but also she was so focused on every single piece
07:27that went into that you see the other team kind of going wild putting 175 flowers you know in multiples
07:36whereas actually they kind of deliberated over that hydrangea coping in oh well done thank you
07:43hydrogen but but that was a big decision you know and so it felt like they never got kind of
07:49whipped up in the excitement of excess yeah that's right and I think what what Rothner was really good
07:55at doing was even when she was suggesting going down a route that not everybody loved she would very
08:00cleverly say I'm kind of not going to go ahead with this unless you're all behind me yeah so she
08:04was
08:04really good at bringing together the team and only progressing so you have great debate and then
08:10everybody gets behind it yeah yeah she was great she was good like that wasn't she and but the thing
08:14is they had been given a lesson in how to arrange the flowers like don't put two flowers that are
08:20the
08:20same together yeah which are very interesting I didn't know that and we're here she was she was so
08:27good about the foliage foliage yeah building it up making it bigger and seem look making it look bigger
08:32than what it actually was yeah which is a good lesson in life make it look bigger than what it
08:37actually is because that really gets people going doesn't it
08:43but she was clever like that but whereas the tropical flowers they looked a bit skimpy
08:48like for the amount they were charging it didn't look like you were getting a lot
08:52yes let's talk now about sub teams mike it seemed that the sub teams handled the corporate clients
09:00with kind of varying degrees of success what are the do's and don'ts because it's not like going out
09:07and shouting at punters to buy flowers yeah with a corporate client you're handling it presumably in a
09:13very different way yeah because it's all about the personal relationship that you establish with them in
09:17the first place now you then take the brief and deliver on it so in terms of do's I think
09:22um when
09:23you're taking a brief do always repeat back what you think the solution is to the client you know so
09:28if uh lorence had said so you're after something with some devil horns on it the client would have said
09:34no
09:35you're wrong there we want something which is really high-end and show-stopping and opulent okay um
09:40so that's a do so like speaking to a child really exactly yeah do we both understand what's going on
09:46here good let's go ahead and do that and then I think the don't is don't let yourself be bullied
09:51and I I really liked rajan's negotiation and the way the team handled that because rajan I think
09:57you're right to to pick him out he feels like you know he's stealthy he's he's never too loud but
10:04is he one to watch do we think yeah he's he's very measured very professional and very calm you
10:11know he doesn't shout at clients or shout at his team members it's like he's thought through yeah
10:17what he's going to ask and what he's going to execute and I think that comes across in his
10:23mannerisms and I think he's very good yeah yeah lawrence managed to get double what they started with
10:28they offered 750 quid tough client it felt like in the room he pushed them up to 1500 pounds
10:36right there but it was a little I think the thing with lawrence here is before he went into the
10:45room
10:45he was very articulate about what you need to do this is what we're not going to do this is
10:49what we
10:50are going to do we're going to listen to them we're going to deliver on it so we had a
10:52plan
10:52oh absolutely and then when he got into the room he just kind of ignored it he just didn't follow
10:58his own advice when he went into the room and so as a result what you ended up with was
11:02a really
11:03muddled brief coming back to the team who were supposed to be creating the the the bespoke backdrop
11:10for them I mean I couldn't understand the client had said we want high-end glamour fashion and
11:16lawrence says nah nah I don't want that I don't want to deliver perfection well it's not about you what
11:22about the client I'm like it's like he's in a world of his own he just wants to do his
11:26own thing
11:27yeah and also they didn't even know how to pronounce carnations they called them coronations
11:32as well well there were a few slip-ups in the old pronunciation game let's be honest and flowers
11:37stump us all like spell geranium mike uh g-e-r-a-n-i-u-n hydrogens hydrangeas
11:46let's move on to the second let's move on to the selling team okay lawrence and connor they slightly
11:55dominated i think the stall right i think the main thing was if you saw how badly lawns put
12:05together those bouquets he's like the last person you would ever want doing that because he just
12:09break the flowers he'd be as bad as kieran so he took one for the team by getting out front
12:14so i think
12:14the right people however it ended up being the right people ended up making the bouquets yeah
12:18because they were much better at doing that and then and they would have been just as good at
12:22selling of course there's no doubt no doubt about that at all but definitely you wouldn't want
12:27lawns anywhere near the uh the the secateurs pasha and krishma they actually didn't really want that
12:35role did they in the first place um shazzy have you ever been in a role that you didn't want
12:41or love
12:42i've been pushed into many roles in my life i mean uh but you know me i just get on
12:47with it i make
12:47the best of it you know but i've worked in mcdonald's i've worked in baskin robbins yeah i was also
12:53a
12:53science teacher in an eastern comprehensive for a long time yeah before biology or chemistry biology
12:59and chemistry and physics to gcse all the sciences oh yeah oh yeah i i mean i know all about
13:04the
13:05hydrogens um i i've done the periodic table i i knew about that um but the thing is i i
13:12hated it
13:13but i did it they hated me as well i mean the kids hated me and i hated them i
13:18cannot imagine the kids
13:19hate me it was mutual but the thing is i did it for a long time to get to do
13:24what i really wanted to do
13:26and sometimes you have to do that you have to do things that you don't like which give you skills
13:30and confidence to get you to get where you want to be as long as you have that vision and
13:36you think
13:36i know i'm i know i don't like this but i'm going to do it because eventually i'm going to
13:41get to do
13:41what i really want to do also i think no matter what you're thrown into you can kind of reframe
13:47it
13:47to go if you can make a 13 year old laugh you can make anyone laugh you know they weren't
13:50laughing
13:50then no okay she's called her craft since it's fine but i've got the skills of kind of standing there
13:56the confidence you know keeping them entertained i've got all those skills from there and then i
14:01took them and i use them in my what i do now yeah yeah okay it is time to welcome
14:06back our fired
14:07candidate gang who having blossomed in parts has sadly not quite made the cut for lord sugar's
14:13apprentice let's go back to the moment that she was fired vanessa i don't think you led this team
14:19very well at all in fact i think far too much money was spent on flowers and also the manufacturing
14:28of the bouquets was a joke complete and utter joke and and on that basis vanessa you're fired
14:38thank you very much
14:41good luck
14:48vanessa is here
14:50hi welcome thank you how is it watching that back
14:57um it was it was something i think it was definitely something just watching myself back i felt like
15:04i could see myself giving up i kind of think i knew where it was going okay but i'm happy
15:08the
15:09way i handed it um i was all smiles even though i was crying inside but i think you handled
15:15it with
15:16like dignity and grace which we we love to see yeah let's talk vanessa about your decision to go up
15:23for
15:23pm which yeah you know and and shazia mentioned really brave there's so many people who just kind
15:29of hang back and you were like i'm ready i'm ready to go was it the right moment to step
15:35off
15:35um no absolutely not i wasn't ready um so the thing with me myself putting myself as pm i feel
15:41like from like previous boardrooms it was kind of alluded to whatever i've been doing i was like i'm
15:45not making enough noise i am not a wallflower i i literally i don't think there's any room i've ever
15:50entered that you don't know i'm there so my thing is i'm i'm going to notice this is not good
15:53enough i need to do something bold and i did that and uh yeah it got me fired well honestly
15:58you were fabulous yeah your pm style had you kind of thought about that did it emerge as you were
16:05going or what kind of style were you going for so with my pm style i think my because i
16:11my day-to-day
16:12is kind of doing dealing with teams as well i am quite like strict with the way i do stuff
16:16but i
16:17think again from previous boardrooms it was alluded to that i was a bit too strict so i was like
16:20a cool
16:20when i get a chance to be pm i'm gonna be i'm gonna give people a chance i'm gonna give
16:24them a
16:24chance to be heard i wish i never did that i'll be real i wish i never did that i
16:29wish i went in full
16:30guns blazing absolutely how i am literally like no no no no no i really want everyone to feel like
16:35they weren't um they were heard and they were considered but no do you know what no this is
16:39actually my world one of the things i really liked about your leadership style i could kind of tell that
16:43you're an experienced leader because you when people in your team were getting into trouble like
16:49the guys building the catastrophic uh flower wall you didn't stand back and kind of blame them and
16:57think well if this fails i can throw them under the bus you rolled your sleeves up and you got
17:02involved
17:02you were so visible you you really showed that hard work ethic i think that's so important thank you yeah
17:09i i mean that was one thing i one thing i always do is i perform i throw myself fully
17:14immerse myself
17:14anything i do and i also don't believe in if i can say something i'll try my best without having
17:19to throw other people in i don't like that i don't believe in like pushing someone else and just because
17:23to save myself and i think to your point mike that a lot of people do hang back they see
17:29disaster and
17:29they think you know what i can just detach myself have no part to play in that but you were
17:34right in
17:35which in a way sometimes felt like you were you couldn't decide where to be but actually that you
17:40were you were leading and and getting involved where it needed yeah it was quite hard because
17:45it was almost as if so we had seven seven people and the other team had eight it was like
17:49damned if
17:50you do damn if you don't because evil either side was going to be disadvantaged one less hand hand so
17:54i thought as a leader the best thing you can do is make sure both sides kind of had extra
17:58hands when
17:59needed um and obviously with the corporate client being a sure bet i just thought it made more sense for
18:04me
18:04to focus my energy there make sure that was done at least yeah but we completely missed the brief because
18:08i
18:08didn't get told high fashion i got told something else and that's what we delivered
18:13a little bit annoyed finesse you relied on the sub team to manage the corporate client and when you
18:18actually turned up on the day things didn't quite go to plan did they shall we remind ourselves can you
18:25talk me through which elements you feel are high fashion here um with high fashion i definitely didn't
18:30get that passed on but i think with the the bright colors you really can't walk past this and miss
18:35it
18:35for me this clashes it's just not this show and it's not this brief so we can't honor that original
18:41quote so um yeah if we possibly if we do like i know we said 1500 are we able to
18:46get to the 1200 mark
18:47look we'll recognize the labor and the time and can offer you a thousand pounds for it ultimately this
18:52isn't something that we're going to use oh dear it's quite uncomfortable to watch that one when you
18:59realize that the feedback of high fashion hadn't actually been shared with you what were you
19:04thinking i wanted that flower wall to swallow me up i thought i thought this is ridiculous because
19:09that was that was missed that was completely missed high fashion is such a statement within itself i'm
19:14literally a fashion designer i know what high fashion is i know what avant-garde is i could have
19:17done so much better should i have been given just that that those two words high fashion i wasn't given
19:22that and now i'm having to salvage something that looks like i never know something that looks like i
19:26never know i didn't know what it looks like just doesn't look good and i don't know at that point
19:30i think i just i had accepted my fate and i thought yeah it's a wrap it's a wrap that
19:36creativity i think
19:37came through it came through in your passion for the task and the energy that you brought to it
19:42do you think that maybe you got a little wrapped up when you were creating the bouquets within an hour
19:48there were four bouquets made there was chat about finessing them about you know all of the kind of
19:54creative side of it but it felt like maybe the profit side was lost what what took so long
20:02i don't understand why we only done four i think they all quite try and find we found it quite
20:07hard
20:08to kind of put bouquets together other team has expertise in making bouquets we didn't we all
20:12literally just floating around quite literally like bees around flowers no idea what to do i think the
20:18issue with us focusing more aesthetics rather than the actual flowers was because i like nice things i'm not
20:24going to pretend i don't like nice things i like expensive things as well so my thing was if it
20:28looks nice i can charge a price for it i'm not going to pretend that i don't like nice things
20:31so um i definitely didn't go to think about profit i thought more if it looks nice you can sell
20:36something that looks nice for anything and you were kind of blinded by the brilliance of your bouquet
20:40rightly so shazia how much would you have paid for it i mean i've gone for pretty over profit many
20:46times
20:47in my life a pretty man pretty man with no money i've had that a lot of times so we
20:53all we all succumb
20:55to that mistake sometimes so i understand you going for pretty over profit because people like nice
21:02things they look at something and they go oh i like that and like you said about the the tropical
21:06aspect of it you know you want to transport people to like barbados or somewhere tropical did you bring
21:13the right candidates back into the boardroom with you i think that's the big question on everyone's
21:18mind and it was an emphasis on me bringing the wrong person back in i stand by my decision i
21:23think in
21:23that task there were a lot of really good candidates i think equally really good candidates who've done
21:29notable things across the weeks so it would have been hard to pick someone anyway for me at that moment
21:34i had to think about myself and i thought okay cool if i'm going to go up against people
21:38who does it make sense that they haven't had that much praise they haven't been highlighted they
21:42haven't done anything notable and that's what my decision was based on lawrence as well i think
21:47being the sub-pm he was really enthusiastic about kind of trying to get us to win and i could
21:51see
21:51that watching it back that he really did try as well but i had to i just couldn't let go
21:55of the
21:55high fashion thing because how do you miss that yeah how do you how do you actually miss high
21:59unforgivable another thing i just wanted to highlight was that um with the other candidates all really
22:03really well spoken i've always said to myself i've got i've got a lot of chats i've always said to
22:07myself if i go up and i'm in the bottom three i want to go against people who i know
22:11can defend
22:11themselves and i think lawrence and pasha are just that they speak they can talk really really well
22:15so i thought i've got a fight and i've got two people who can fight equally as well and i'll
22:19throw
22:20everything i have in there yeah but yeah i stand by my decision but that feels like a brilliantly
22:26thought-out strategic choice of people to go in do you feel it was the right i mean i'm not
22:33sure i
22:33would have chosen the two most articulate people to then have a kind of a semi-legal argument
22:39like yourself i mean um no disrespect but you know um priesh for example you know who was kind
22:47of culpable for quite a lot of mistakes and the ones he when he wasn't making a mistake he was
22:52kind
22:52of looking around a bit yeah so i was with priesh on the second day and when it came down
22:57to like
22:57the labor priesh really put his back into it so i wouldn't feel true to myself bringing someone back
23:02for the sure factor of i know that i could probably out talk them there was a lovely moment with
23:08you
23:08and carrington as she was leaving the boardroom how how did that make you feel yeah that that made
23:14me feel it made me feel warm i think it gave me the final push i needed um so myself
23:19and carrington
23:19had a bond from almost immediately from boardroom zero when she was announced uh telling me that
23:24you've got this was like the final push i needed i feel like i gave it my absolute all that
23:28i could
23:28at that point um and but yeah and i know that she was really upset to not see me come
23:33back because i
23:33think everyone in that house kind of knows a fighter i fight for what i believe in i stand well
23:37what i
23:37believe in as well but when the odds are stacked against you there's absolutely nothing when the odds
23:41are stacked against you and little sugar's stacked against you well you went down in a blaze of glory
23:49absolutely glorious glorious um okay it is that part of the show where our guests
23:57choose a little soundtrack moment so a song each that represents how this task went
24:03shall we have yours first shazia yes this is a tribute to the high fashion that never happened
24:10uh this is um uh she's in fashion of course
24:21this is a bit of you isn't it
24:29nice little suede moment there and mike uh well listen i couldn't resist going back into the mid
24:3590s to the uk garage scene with this absolute proper banger
24:49driving me insane yeah good that was a real life one
24:56i didn't realize you were so young boy
24:59so hip hang on
25:03well there's a compliment in there somewhere i'll pick that out later
25:08right shall we move on to task six halfway through can you even believe it time flies
25:13doesn't it when you're having fun okay our candidates are packing their bags as they head off to egypt
25:19to host what could go wrong a corporate away day let's have a look at the global chaos
25:26we just where's the rest of the parsley the the leaves the leaves yeah throwing them away we need
25:31them that's what we needed i've thrown them away what did you throw away he threw the parsley
25:36away the leaves why i thought you meant you said cut them off yeah and put the stems away oh
25:41you're
25:41kidding me where's it in the bin yeah i put them in the bin yeah i can't use that now
25:47no obviously
25:48you can't use that what was that for the curry yeah the curry yeah oh okay okay 30 second rule
25:54whip
25:55them out and go for it nobody saw yeah that's what we would have done that's what we did do
26:03that's insane i can't believe what do we think of this task i mean this looks like an absolute cracker
26:09doesn't it also i think we saw them a little discombobulated in hong kong so do we think
26:14that kind of taking people out of their comfort zone away somewhere exotic slightly you know throws
26:21them off the scent i mean look it's i'm sure as vanessa would agree it is a discombobulating process
26:27anyway right you're doing everything at turbo speed you're being thrown into things you've never done
26:33before it really tests you i think if you also take you're also taken out of this country and
26:39into somewhere else that's that that's a real test i mean i'm really looking forward to this i hope that
26:45what the candidates do is remember the two golden rules though of corporate entertaining one is
26:50whatever you're putting on whatever show or piece of entertainment you put on keep it brisk keep it short
26:56and secondly do not skimp on the chilled white wine if nothing else keep pouring
27:03okay good to know shazia who are we looking forward to seeing more of do we feel like anybody hasn't
27:12kind of you know to use your term shazia put their head above the parapet that we want to see
27:16okay what
27:17are you made of priesh i i'd love to see more of him like at the moment he he doesn't
27:22look like he knows
27:23where he is or what he's doing he's not really in the moment and i'd really love to see him
27:29in
27:29the moment like grab the bull by the horns and say listen everybody we're going to do this let's
27:34this is my idea let's go with this i'd love to see that from him well watch this space thank
27:39you so
27:40much gang for joining me thank you come back next time for more unfinished business on bbc 2
27:46iplayer or bbc sounds straight after your fix of the apprentice we'll be chatting about our candidates
27:52taking on egypt where the hospitality is hot the pressure is pressurized and not everyone will
27:58make it back out of the sands intact i'm angela scanlan goodbye with the magical and the mundane
28:08unfolding on a suburban cul-de-sac small profits with its host of comedy stars is
28:13mackenzie crook's new project and it's a big hit you'll find it on bbc iplayer
28:18you
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