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00:00:16Hello there everybody, you're all very welcome to the show and I hope you enjoy what happens here over the
00:00:21next hour or so.
00:00:22To find out who our first guest is, let me hand you over to our MC for the evening, the
00:00:26beautiful Fred Cook.
00:00:28Thank you, Tommy. Well, our first guest is Mr. John Barnes.
00:00:41You look as if you knew, you knew it was going to be me.
00:00:44I'm just very, very pleased to meet you.
00:00:47Nice to meet you too, I've heard all about you. All good things.
00:00:51John Barnes.
00:00:51All good things.
00:00:53Are you well?
00:00:54I'm very well, even better now.
00:00:55What I was better a few months ago when Liverpool were top of the league and it's not a good
00:00:59time to be coming, but you know, let's take the rough with the smooth.
00:01:02Do you still get hurt when we lose? Does it bother you?
00:01:11Not as much as it bothers the fans. I love Liverpool. It's my club. I still work for them. I'm
00:01:15on a battle for them. I go to the games.
00:01:16Yeah, yeah. I played for them. That's my club. But it belongs to the people. And the fans are the
00:01:21ones who it really, really gets to.
00:01:23Because I look at it from a professional perspective. I think we're doing okay. We're going through a bit of
00:01:27a teething problem. Having won the league. We've got new players.
00:01:29They're young. They're inexperienced. It's going to take time, but they're good individual players. So we will gel.
00:01:33Whereas the fans just feel it having won the league last year. And now obviously we're out of the top
00:01:37four. So I think it affects them more than it affects me.
00:01:40So what, is there something in your life that affects you the way you think football affects fans? Something that
00:01:48you can't control, but you've a lot of emotional investment in. You're kind of vulnerable to.
00:01:53Well, I think it's a, it's a, it's a character trait in people whereby you are affected heavily by things.
00:01:59And it could be football. It could be something else. It could be an argument. Whereas I'm very level.
00:02:03I'm like that. And I get a bit excited and a little bit depressed where some people get very excited.
00:02:09So I've never been that way.
00:02:10You know, even my wife and my kids say, you know, you don't get emotional about things. And of course,
00:02:14we love it when people get emotional.
00:02:15But on the flip side of that, you can obviously slip into deep depression if things don't go your way.
00:02:19So I always try and keep a very level head on, on, on everything in my life.
00:02:24Were you, were you calm like that when you were playing? Because images of you playing for Liverpool and the
00:02:31Asians are coming back to me now.
00:02:33And you always seemed in, you know, everybody else was being electrocuted, but you were moving in syrup.
00:02:40Do you know what I mean? You had that kind of...
00:02:41And then I got all of moving in treacle. Couldn't run around anymore.
00:02:45Poise.
00:02:46Yes. I've always been that way in my life. Yeah.
00:02:48As I said, when I played, even when I played for Liverpool and people would get very excited because we
00:02:52were playing against Everton,
00:02:53playing in a cup final. But when we play against Swindon Town, for example, and it's 10,000 people.
00:02:57Whereas for me, I played the game of football and it didn't let outside influences affect me,
00:03:01be it 100,000 in FA Cup final or 10,000 against, because I think that you have to play
00:03:06the game, not the occasion.
00:03:07And if you're going to say that you're going to be more inspired when you're playing in a cup final,
00:03:11and less inspired when you're playing a normal league match, that's not the way to be.
00:03:15What other stuff were you good at as a kid?
00:03:17Well, I mean, it's all sport. I only went to a rugby school when I first came to England.
00:03:21My dad was a diplomat, so he came to England when I was 13 years old.
00:03:24I played football for a club in England. I was always a good footballer.
00:03:26But I played rugby because the school only played rugby. So I played rugby for London schools.
00:03:30I was a centre. So I did... It was a sporting family.
00:03:34My sisters played squash for Jamaica. She swam for Jamaica.
00:03:37My oldest sister played tennis. So, and my father, who was a diplomat, he was a colonel in the army,
00:03:42he went to Sandhurst. He was the heavyweight boxing champion of Sandhurst,
00:03:45played football for Jamaica as an army officer. So it was a real sporting family.
00:03:48So yeah, we did a lot of sport growing up.
00:03:50Was it a... I know a child... To them, their childhood is just what it is.
00:03:58It never seems privileged. Absolutely.
00:04:00Looking back now, do you think, all right, okay, it was a privileged upbringing?
00:04:03Absolutely. I mean... Sounds like it might have been.
00:04:05I mean, well, that's from my father's point of view. He was an army officer,
00:04:09British army officer. So we lived... When we moved to London, we lived in Highgate and Hampstead
00:04:12and we had chauffeurs. And that's from an army perspective. My mother's family were interested.
00:04:16Because my mother's family started the first Jamaican government in the 50s,
00:04:20but they quickly broke away from the Jamaican government, my grandfather and his brother,
00:04:24because they quickly realized that this new black Jamaican government after independence
00:04:28was going to discriminate against working class black people.
00:04:34So they started to trade unions and they broke away.
00:04:36So as much as they were an elite family, they were socialists in their leanings
00:04:39and they understood that discrimination is not just about race or gender,
00:04:42it's also about class. And that's their big thing.
00:04:45So they were socialists in the way they thought, as much as they were the elite
00:04:49from a governmental perspective growing up in Jamaica.
00:04:51As I said, when my dad died, the two prime ministers were at his funeral five, six...
00:04:57Sorry, ten years ago when my dad passed away.
00:04:59My mother's family were very influential in politics in Jamaica.
00:05:02And as much as they were an elite family, they understood that they wanted to represent the people,
00:05:07the working class.
00:05:08Why did your parents leave Jamaica?
00:05:10My dad was a... He's a diplomat. He was a diplomatic posting.
00:05:13So we didn't immigrate. My dad was sent to England as military attache,
00:05:17because he was a colonel in the army and it was a four-year posting.
00:05:20And for four years, at 13, I came to England, 12 and a half.
00:05:26At 16 and a half, I got offered a football scholarship,
00:05:28because we're now going to go back to Jamaica.
00:05:30The diplomatic posting was finished.
00:05:32We're going to go back to Jamaica. I'm going to go to Howard University.
00:05:35I got a football scholarship.
00:05:36So I'm going to Howard to study international relations.
00:05:39And for six months before I went back, I was playing football just in the park
00:05:43and the taxi driver drove by. He said, I'll watch this game.
00:05:45He knew a scout. The scout must have come,
00:05:48because I didn't know a scout was there watching.
00:05:50Three or four months before I'm going back to Jamaica,
00:05:52the scout then phoned my dad and said,
00:05:54you know, we've seen John.
00:05:55Does he want to come and train with Watford's youth team
00:05:56for a few months before he goes back to Jamaica?
00:05:59Trained with Watford's youth team, offered me a contract two months later.
00:06:04That's the first time I thought about being a professional footballer.
00:06:06My family then went back and I stayed and I got in the first team at 17 within two months
00:06:12of being a professional footballer.
00:06:14For people who might be aware, there was a period of, and I'm only picking numbers here,
00:06:20but six, seven years when you were probably one of the best in the world at what you were doing.
00:06:26Well, I had a good grounding at Watford.
00:06:28Watford, the essence of Watford as the essence of Liverpool was always about the team,
00:06:31the responsibility to the team.
00:06:33And being an army officer's son, my dad always spoke about your dedication, your discipline,
00:06:38your commitment, your attitude, your willingness to work for the team rather than being an individual.
00:06:43I don't care how good you are as a player, your responsibility first and foremost is to the team.
00:06:46This is how I was when I was young.
00:06:48Yeah.
00:06:49What years were you at Liverpool?
00:06:511987 to 97.
00:06:53Ten years.
00:06:54So, it was...
00:06:57That was Hillsborough?
00:06:59Hillsborough, yeah.
00:07:00Yeah.
00:07:01Was it 88 or 89?
00:07:03Hillsborough was 89.
00:07:0589.
00:07:05And it was really interesting because...
00:07:07For people who don't know, 97 people were killed when the police...
00:07:15Opened the gates of the stadium.
00:07:17Opened the gates and let too many people in.
00:07:19There was no...
00:07:19There was a crush, yeah.
00:07:22And Liverpool fans and you were part of the team that was there that day.
00:07:27What was that?
00:07:29What is supposed to be the happiest day of your life, FA Cup semi-final,
00:07:32then you have mothers, fathers, children, daughters who don't come home because they've been killed.
00:07:39How are you going to respond to that?
00:07:40Now, of course, if you go to war, your sons or daughters go to war,
00:07:44you half expect that they could die but not at a football match.
00:07:46So, how are you going to respond to that?
00:07:47So, on that particular day, I remember being...
00:07:50And it's so interesting because when we look back at what happens in the past and we think,
00:07:53how could that have happened?
00:07:55This never happened today.
00:07:56But at the time, it was normal.
00:07:58Meaning that the way that football fans were treated back then,
00:08:00when they were just herded in like cattle into these stadiums.
00:08:03But I'd seen that for 10 years previously.
00:08:05I'd seen that since I started playing football in 1980.
00:08:07This is now 1989, whereby they were herded in.
00:08:10You had fences.
00:08:11They were pushed against these fences.
00:08:12And until that happened, everyone just took that for granted that this is the way football is.
00:08:16Yeah.
00:08:17Obviously, once that happens, then people go, well, how could this happen?
00:08:19So, I remember vividly watching that game and looking at six minutes past three is when the game stopped.
00:08:24And I looked to the corner.
00:08:25There was a...
00:08:27Nottingham Forest had a corner.
00:08:28And I looked to the right where the stands were.
00:08:30And I saw two of the girls who I knew, they used to come and watch training, pushed up against
00:08:34fences.
00:08:34And I thought to myself, that looks uncomfortable.
00:08:38That's what I thought.
00:08:39But I'd seen that before for years where people were pushed up against a fence.
00:08:42Then people started coming over the fences.
00:08:44And we thought it was a pitch invasion.
00:08:45So, we ran off the pitch.
00:08:46We ran off the pitch and then we went in and we didn't know what was going on.
00:08:49We just felt clear on the pitch.
00:08:51People have come on the pitch.
00:08:52Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:52We didn't know what was happening.
00:08:53People watching it on television or people who were there would have seen it.
00:08:56Us as players were just in the dressing room warming up because we were going to go back out.
00:08:59Until 40 minutes later, they said, oh, well, the game's off.
00:09:02Don't know why.
00:09:02We came out to then go to the players' lounge to meet our family.
00:09:05And that's when we looked to the right on the pitch and saw bodies and, you know, sheets over people.
00:09:10That's the first time we realized.
00:09:12Then when we got up to the players' lounge and we looked out onto the pitch, that's when we saw
00:09:16the devastation.
00:09:17So, that's not the story I want to tell you.
00:09:18The story I want to tell you is what it means to people, Liverpool, and what football means to people.
00:09:22We then had to go back to, we went home.
00:09:26On the Sunday, we came back to Sheffield to go to the hospital because there were still people who were
00:09:30injured.
00:09:31There were people in comas because they'd lost oxygen.
00:09:34They're in a coma.
00:09:36They're naturally going to wake up out of the coma or they're not.
00:09:38But lots of them were waking up when we were there.
00:09:40So, the doctor was saying, talk to them, talk to them.
00:09:42You know, just, so we sat in the edge of the bed, me and John Aldridge and people talking to
00:09:45them.
00:09:45And I remember something that happened with this kid and it was funny.
00:09:48I mean, you can talk about it being funny now.
00:09:50It was funny at the time.
00:09:51And when I explained, you don't understand why.
00:09:53Because there's this kid lying in the bed about 15 and we're just talking and then he wakes up.
00:09:56And he opens his eyes and there's John Barns and John Aldridge.
00:09:59And he goes, Barnsley! Barnsley!
00:10:01Because he doesn't know what's happened.
00:10:02As far as he's concerned, he's in his bedroom.
00:10:04He's woken up and there's John Barns and John Aldridge in his bed.
00:10:07So he's gone, there's Kenny Barnsley!
00:10:08So he's all excited.
00:10:09Obviously, once he sees what's happening, he starts to cry.
00:10:11It's a nice feeling.
00:10:12Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:10:12So then, we then go back to Liverpool.
00:10:17But then on the Wednesday, we're now going to host in the Players' Lounge, the loved ones of people who
00:10:25have died.
00:10:26And that is going to be, because I had an irrational feeling of guilt because they came to watch me
00:10:30and they died.
00:10:30They didn't. They came to watch Liverpool and I happened to be playing.
00:10:33So, you know, but you have a feeling of guilt that, you know, if I wasn't playing, they would have
00:10:36still been...
00:10:37So you have this irrational feeling of guilt.
00:10:39So you're wondering, how are they going to react to you?
00:10:41Because these are people who've lost their kids and husbands three days earlier.
00:10:45And it's not war, it's a football match.
00:10:47So many of them were coming in and saying,
00:10:49I cannot believe I'm in the Players' Lounge with Ian Rush and John Barns and Kenny Dalglish.
00:10:53This would be the greatest then. If little Johnny could look down on me now.
00:10:56And this is how much their football club means to them.
00:10:59That is why, for me, Liverpool has a special relationship with its fans.
00:11:02Yeah.
00:11:06I've seen your name come up in stuff recently to do with being black.
00:11:15And what is that about?
00:11:19Like, are you black?
00:11:21Well, the thing about it is that I hope it hasn't just come up recently,
00:11:24because I always knew I was black.
00:11:25And it's a bit of a Freudian slip,
00:11:26because I wasn't black when I played football as a professional.
00:11:29And I'm not playing anymore.
00:11:30I'm black now that I can't get as much work as I did.
00:11:32So that is...
00:11:33When did you think you were black?
00:11:34Yeah.
00:11:35No, here's the situation.
00:11:36And I'll tell you, because when I...
00:11:38Just to give you an example,
00:11:39when I first signed for Liverpool,
00:11:41apart from Harry Gale, who was a local player...
00:11:42Totally, yeah, yeah.
00:11:43Yeah?
00:11:43But I was the first black player that Liverpool signed.
00:11:46You know, he came from the...
00:11:48Apprentice or whatever.
00:11:48I was the first player, and high profile,
00:11:49I'd been playing for England.
00:11:51And my friend, who used to go to the games,
00:11:53and there were these two old boys who sat in front of him every game,
00:11:55and he's talking about,
00:11:56we don't want John Barnes to come, he's black,
00:11:57and he doesn't like the cold, he wears tights,
00:11:59and no black players aren't good in the cold,
00:12:00and they're from down south.
00:12:02So the first couple of games...
00:12:03He'd only be able to play in May.
00:12:05Exactly.
00:12:05But the first two games were away from home.
00:12:07And Russia and Dalglish had gone, Dalglish had retired,
00:12:10so it's me and John Aldridge now with Peter Baird.
00:12:12This is a new team, how are we going to fare?
00:12:14The first two games were away from home,
00:12:16and we did so well.
00:12:16We beat Arsenal, we won the second game,
00:12:18and it was a new, exciting Liverpool team.
00:12:20So by the time the first home game came along,
00:12:22the away fans had said,
00:12:23Barnes is great, blah, blah, blah.
00:12:24So the buzz went round about John Barnes.
00:12:26Yeah, yeah.
00:12:26First home game now,
00:12:28and I scored a free kick after 15 minutes against Oxford,
00:12:30and my friend used to sit behind these two white guys
00:12:32who used to abuse me before, old boys,
00:12:34and he said one of them turned to the other
00:12:35and said he's not as black as I thought.
00:12:38Which you could mean the colour of my skin
00:12:40rather than anything else.
00:12:41So very much like I separate my life from who I am and what I am,
00:12:45I also separate the fact that I'm a black footballer
00:12:47in terms of when people tell me they love me.
00:12:50Because I'll use Mo Salah as an example.
00:12:52When we talk about Mo Salah changing Liverpool's perception of Muslims
00:12:55because Mo Salah is doing well.
00:12:56No, they're changing the perception of him.
00:12:58Because if he leaves or if he doesn't play well,
00:12:59they're still going to have a perception of Muslims
00:13:01based on how they've been conditioned.
00:13:02So I can do nothing to change people's minds.
00:13:04So when they say you did a lot to change racism,
00:13:05no I didn't.
00:13:06Because you talk about a new situation now
00:13:09whereby, you know, the New England team
00:13:11because they're black players and it's well accepted,
00:13:13they don't abuse them anymore
00:13:14and this new inclusive England team,
00:13:15then two years ago, three years ago,
00:13:17three black players missed a penalty
00:13:18and you see what happened.
00:13:20So if that's all it takes for you to go back to the battle ways,
00:13:24it means that you didn't do anything to begin with.
00:13:25So we have to stop looking for football to change society.
00:13:28We have to tackle racism in society from down below,
00:13:32a platform down below for the average white,
00:13:34average working class person,
00:13:35average black person to climb up the ladder themselves.
00:13:37Because we think as long as we promote black people
00:13:39or women to these positions,
00:13:41it'll help people coming up.
00:13:42We had Obama.
00:13:42We had Theresa May.
00:13:44We had Lira Varadkar here.
00:13:45Is that changing perceptions of, you know,
00:13:47black people, women, gay people, whatever?
00:13:48No, it doesn't.
00:13:49So we have to stop doing it that way around.
00:13:52Because it's about the elite and the non-elite,
00:13:55regardless of whether you're black, white, woman, whatever.
00:14:00How many kids do you have?
00:14:01I have seven kids.
00:14:02Seven?
00:14:02I had a grandchild yesterday.
00:14:04You look great on it.
00:14:07I'm still carrying the baby weight as you can tell.
00:14:10But of course, the question you're going to ask me about my children,
00:14:13I have two groups.
00:14:15Two groups?
00:14:16I have a big four who live my best life.
00:14:18My eldest son's 40 is a plastic surgeon,
00:14:20another son's a bank,
00:14:20and my daughter with their babies at an esthetic,
00:14:22she's a consultant, doctor,
00:14:23other one works in property.
00:14:24My three young kids are living their best life.
00:14:27What does that mean?
00:14:28Which means that the way you bring your big kids up,
00:14:30and you spoke about the way I was brought up,
00:14:31these new kids these days,
00:14:32you can't shout at them,
00:14:34you can't talk too hard to them,
00:14:35you have to allow them to do what they do.
00:14:37So I was a different parent with my big kids
00:14:40than I'm with my little kids.
00:14:42Did you go back to Jamaica much?
00:14:43Well I used to,
00:14:45because my mother and father,
00:14:46my mother passed away last year,
00:14:47my dad about 10,
00:14:4815 years ago,
00:14:49so we used to,
00:14:50but my sisters,
00:14:51all Jamaicans live in,
00:14:53you know,
00:14:53or middle class Jamaicans,
00:14:54a lot of them move up to America,
00:14:55so my sisters are in Florida,
00:14:56which is one hour from Jamaica,
00:14:58so we tend to meet in Florida,
00:14:59and then come up,
00:15:00or we meet in Washington, D.C.,
00:15:02because my sister used to live in D.C.,
00:15:03and my cousin, funnily enough,
00:15:04who we grew up with in Jamaica,
00:15:05she's a federal judge in Washington,
00:15:08and she was a federal judge,
00:15:09Tanya Chutkin,
00:15:10if you know anything about her,
00:15:11who was prosecuting Trump
00:15:12over the insurrection.
00:15:14So I don't know when you know,
00:15:15when they stormed the Capitol,
00:15:16she was a judge who had to put that woman in prison,
00:15:17which she did,
00:15:18so she had a lot of threats on her life,
00:15:20and when Liverpool played pre-season,
00:15:23I was with them over in Carolina and Philadelphia,
00:15:26she came to the game,
00:15:27my cousin,
00:15:27and she had to come with 10 marshals with her
00:15:28just to come to the game,
00:15:29they had to follow her everywhere.
00:15:31This is before he won the election.
00:15:32Now he's won the election,
00:15:33he's safe,
00:15:34so she's okay now.
00:15:38When you were talking there,
00:15:40I had just a sense of you as,
00:15:44in the UK,
00:15:45you're a known black person.
00:15:48My family in Jamaica are more well-known than me,
00:15:50my father and mother and her family.
00:15:52No, I was going to say in America,
00:15:53but when you land in America,
00:15:55you're just this black guy.
00:15:57Well, from my perspective,
00:15:58well, you know,
00:15:59I think that now we have a big Caribbean,
00:16:01football is in America now,
00:16:03and of course Liverpool is huge.
00:16:04You know,
00:16:05so in fact,
00:16:05I'm going to Stanford University,
00:16:06do a talk next,
00:16:08week after next,
00:16:09about inclusion and diversity and stuff.
00:16:10So there are a lot of talks in America,
00:16:12universities,
00:16:12I'm at Stanford,
00:16:13and you'd be surprised.
00:16:15You'd be surprised because,
00:16:16you know,
00:16:16football is so huge.
00:16:17I mean,
00:16:17I've been going to China,
00:16:18with Liverpool all over,
00:16:20and you go anywhere in the world.
00:16:21I mean,
00:16:21I went to a Liverpool supporters club in,
00:16:24on the border of Ethiopia and Somalia,
00:16:27and it's like,
00:16:28you know,
00:16:29you get football,
00:16:30now that football,
00:16:31you know,
00:16:31it's all over the world,
00:16:32and you can watch it,
00:16:33and it's, you know,
00:16:34media attentive.
00:16:35You can go to the most diverse places,
00:16:36and Liverpool,
00:16:37particularly,
00:16:37and Manchester United as well.
00:16:39Anyway,
00:16:40they're huge.
00:16:42In fact,
00:16:43I shouldn't do that anymore.
00:16:43I used to do that when they were good.
00:16:44There's a couple of United cameramen here,
00:16:46who,
00:16:47as soon as you come on,
00:16:48they just blanked.
00:16:48You know what I used to do?
00:16:49I used to do it for Man United all the time.
00:16:50I can't do it now,
00:16:51because they're obviously a little bit above us.
00:16:53But all the time,
00:16:53Man United fans,
00:16:54when I do my talks,
00:16:55and I say,
00:16:56there's always a Man United fan in the room,
00:16:57and everybody boos them.
00:16:59And I said,
00:16:59don't boo them anymore.
00:17:00We don't do that anymore.
00:17:01We make this noise.
00:17:03Ah,
00:17:04Man United fans?
00:17:05Ah,
00:17:06never mind.
00:17:07Unfortunately,
00:17:07they're doing that to us Liverpool fans now.
00:17:09We enjoyed it while it lasted.
00:17:11We'll be back.
00:17:12What went wrong with the management?
00:17:14Or did it go wrong?
00:17:15Well,
00:17:15interestingly.
00:17:17So,
00:17:18you managed Celtic?
00:17:19Once again, the perception.
00:17:20So,
00:17:20just to give an example.
00:17:21Obviously,
00:17:22there was a big animosity towards me going to Celtic.
00:17:25I wasn't affiliated with them.
00:17:26I'd never had managed before,
00:17:27so they needed a bigger manager.
00:17:29So, of course,
00:17:29when I first went there,
00:17:30there was a bit of animosity towards me.
00:17:31However,
00:17:32I'd won 11,
00:17:33drawn one,
00:17:33lost one.
00:17:34I was three points behind Rangers.
00:17:36But from day one,
00:17:37they were unhappy with me.
00:17:39And we're having arguments all the time,
00:17:40and the players were unhappy because it was like,
00:17:42but we're doing okay.
00:17:44Cut a launch story shot.
00:17:45If you look at my win percentage for Celtic,
00:17:49which is over 65%.
00:17:52Over 65%.
00:17:53Yeah.
00:17:53And Steven Gerrard's win percentage for Rangers is 64%.
00:17:57So,
00:17:59but I was a failure.
00:18:00And he was successful.
00:18:01Once again,
00:18:02you can create.
00:18:03These are balls,
00:18:04that's right.
00:18:04You can create a narrative.
00:18:05It's nothing to do with me being black.
00:18:06Nothing to do with me being black.
00:18:07But once,
00:18:07there's a perception of what,
00:18:09and we lost to Inverness Kelly Thyssen in a cup match,
00:18:11which was a straw that brought the camel's back.
00:18:13But it's difficult.
00:18:14And for black managers,
00:18:15I always say this,
00:18:16which is a,
00:18:16and I don't,
00:18:17because obviously,
00:18:18forget about black managers,
00:18:20black people in any positions of power,
00:18:21because what we are as black people is we're entertainers.
00:18:24We can sing,
00:18:25we can dance,
00:18:25we can box,
00:18:26we can play.
00:18:26There are more than 40% black players,
00:18:28but can we think?
00:18:29And until we're considered to be equally intellectually and morally,
00:18:32we'll never be equal.
00:18:32So,
00:18:33which means that you can always promote as many black footballers as you want,
00:18:35but how we're going to get black managers is when we change the perception of them.
00:18:38So,
00:18:39people say,
00:18:39oh, you're always going on about black,
00:18:40play the race card,
00:18:41forget that.
00:18:42Let's talk about white English managers.
00:18:44You think if the Arsenal,
00:18:45Liverpool,
00:18:46Manchester United,
00:18:46Chelsea job come up,
00:18:47there's going to be a white English manager being given that job.
00:18:51Now you can say,
00:18:51okay,
00:18:52because there's no one there,
00:18:52good enough,
00:18:53they've not really done anything before.
00:18:54I said,
00:18:55okay,
00:18:55but let's give it to a European,
00:18:57French,
00:18:57Italian,
00:18:58or German manager,
00:18:59who you've never heard of.
00:19:01You'd still give him time,
00:19:02even if you've never heard of him.
00:19:04And if he loses his job,
00:19:05you'll get another German manager.
00:19:06Whereas even English managers are white English managers,
00:19:09because the perception is that European managers are better.
00:19:12How many nondescript Portuguese and Spanish managers who've come into the English league,
00:19:15in none of the big clubs,
00:19:16at smaller clubs,
00:19:18and done nothing,
00:19:19and you get another one.
00:19:19Because the perception is,
00:19:20they're better.
00:19:21I had this conversation with people about,
00:19:23you know,
00:19:23and this is go back years,
00:19:25about once you have a perception of someone,
00:19:27then it becomes true.
00:19:29So therefore,
00:19:30when we know the perception of a black man's ability to think,
00:19:33and the more we keep promoting,
00:19:35that's why I don't like the idea of black sporting role models.
00:19:37You look at the movers and shakers in business,
00:19:38and in the hierarchy of economics and the country,
00:19:41they don't aspire when they're at Haren Eaton.
00:19:44Wayne Rooney is not their role model.
00:19:46And David Beckham is not their role model.
00:19:47But we're saying to our young black kids,
00:19:49oh John Barnes and Storms,
00:19:51he was a singer,
00:19:52and he's an actor,
00:19:52they can be your role models,
00:19:53because that's what you're there to do.
00:19:55So unfortunately,
00:19:56that's why I don't like that idea,
00:19:58as much as I do encourage kids to go into sport,
00:20:01or singing or whatever,
00:20:02but I think we have to get away from this black sporting role model.
00:20:06We'll be having some ads now.
00:20:09And during the ads,
00:20:11for all the people out there who aren't familiar with you,
00:20:15what goal should they look for on YouTube that you scored?
00:20:19Well, interestingly,
00:20:20my favourite goal is the goal against the Queen's Park Rangers.
00:20:21I mean, the Brazil goal is obviously,
00:20:23everybody remembers the Brazil goal for England.
00:20:24But that was a friendly match in Rio,
00:20:26half-empty stadium,
00:20:27which was 85,000,
00:20:28because it held up to all 200.
00:20:30And it was an iconic goal for a time in Don Juan.
00:20:32But the Queen's Park Rangers' goal in 1987,
00:20:36when I first signed for Liverpool,
00:20:39is my favourite.
00:20:44I'm sorry to surprise you.
00:20:47Come on you Reds.
00:21:06Welcome back to the second half, everybody.
00:21:08Freddie, who's next?
00:21:10Well, Tommy,
00:21:10on Kate Aile Ella,
00:21:12a tar airing glower,
00:21:13now Sam Campbell.
00:21:26I totally,
00:21:29totally know that name.
00:21:33Hello.
00:21:34Yeah.
00:21:35Sam.
00:21:36A pleasure to meet you fellas.
00:21:38Oh, you too, yeah.
00:21:39An honour.
00:21:40Sit down there dude.
00:21:42No worries man.
00:21:51What will we talk about?
00:21:53Oh, the world's our oyster.
00:21:56Let's get,
00:21:56yeah, let's get straight,
00:21:57let's,
00:21:58let's right some of the world's wrongs, hey?
00:22:00Why not?
00:22:02Top show,
00:22:03you know,
00:22:03this is a great show.
00:22:04How do you,
00:22:06I like the,
00:22:06it's in the ads,
00:22:07you know they mention you in the ads,
00:22:09they're like,
00:22:09Tommy doesn't know his guests,
00:22:11but you should know about your energy bill.
00:22:13You know energy.
00:22:14I like the,
00:22:15you know you're in the ads,
00:22:16that's when you know you,
00:22:17never,
00:22:18you are the cat who got the cream.
00:22:19Never lose a moment to sell energy.
00:22:22Yeah.
00:22:22How do you,
00:22:23how do you work?
00:22:24I'm involved in energy.
00:22:27No,
00:22:28I'm,
00:22:28I do,
00:22:29yeah,
00:22:29all sorts of things.
00:22:30So people who don't know,
00:22:30you're,
00:22:30you're a welder.
00:22:33You're a stand-up comic.
00:22:34Yeah I am,
00:22:34yeah, yeah.
00:22:35How do you,
00:22:36I mean you've got to be,
00:22:38especially with everything that's going on.
00:22:40How do you,
00:22:42how do you work?
00:22:43How do you create?
00:22:45Oh my goodness.
00:22:46You've got,
00:22:47um,
00:22:48oh wow,
00:22:48I just grab onto that mic and yeah,
00:22:50hold on as hard as I can.
00:22:52So,
00:22:52in terms of prep,
00:22:54preparation?
00:22:55Oh yeah.
00:22:56Okay,
00:22:57yeah,
00:22:57you've got to prep,
00:22:58yeah.
00:22:58What do you do?
00:23:00Walking along the canal.
00:23:01Um,
00:23:02oh goodness,
00:23:03yeah.
00:23:04I just try to live and then to,
00:23:06yeah,
00:23:06write a lot and to,
00:23:08um,
00:23:10sometimes chatting to people is very good.
00:23:12Yeah.
00:23:13Yeah.
00:23:13Like crowd work?
00:23:15Oh God,
00:23:16no,
00:23:16no,
00:23:16no,
00:23:17a little bit,
00:23:19you know,
00:23:19I'll say,
00:23:19you know,
00:23:19if someone's really ugly,
00:23:20but yeah,
00:23:21no,
00:23:21no,
00:23:21I don't.
00:23:22I try and steer clear.
00:23:24Uh,
00:23:25do you write jokes?
00:23:26Absolutely.
00:23:27Oh,
00:23:28depends what you ask.
00:23:29I think so,
00:23:29yeah.
00:23:29I reckon I do.
00:23:30Yeah.
00:23:31What?
00:23:31Yeah,
00:23:31I do.
00:23:34Um,
00:23:37do you write them on your own with a pen and a piece of paper in a room?
00:23:42What are you implying?
00:23:43No,
00:23:43I do.
00:23:43Yeah,
00:23:43I guess,
00:23:44yeah.
00:23:45Yeah.
00:23:45Uh,
00:23:46I use index cards.
00:23:48And what,
00:23:48what do you write on them?
00:23:50The topic.
00:23:51That's to,
00:23:51to read,
00:23:52to a range.
00:23:52Do you think the order is so important?
00:23:54Yeah.
00:23:56And you decide that on,
00:23:57based on what?
00:23:59The order?
00:23:59Yeah.
00:24:00Oh my God.
00:24:00It depends if you're doing,
00:24:02um,
00:24:03well,
00:24:03it depends on the length of the set,
00:24:04obviously,
00:24:04but,
00:24:05you know,
00:24:05it's good to start with some local stuff,
00:24:07you know,
00:24:08about Ian Bailey or anything like that.
00:24:09And,
00:24:10um,
00:24:13Ian Bailey,
00:24:13the,
00:24:14you know,
00:24:14this is great.
00:24:15So they've got the dead,
00:24:15the dead murder suspect.
00:24:18Yeah.
00:24:19There's two boys here.
00:24:20Do you know about these boys?
00:24:21Oh,
00:24:21the helpers.
00:24:22Yeah.
00:24:22Well,
00:24:23they're like in their transition year of high school.
00:24:25Um,
00:24:26I think so.
00:24:27Did you ask for them?
00:24:28I didn't know.
00:24:29I walked into the green room.
00:24:30There was just these two boys.
00:24:31I was like,
00:24:32you know,
00:24:33how's it going?
00:24:33And they were like,
00:24:34yeah,
00:24:34we've come to learn about,
00:24:35they do all different things.
00:24:37So they,
00:24:37you know,
00:24:38tomorrow they go to the abattoir.
00:24:39I don't know.
00:24:40They're,
00:24:40they're learning about show business.
00:24:41And then I was talking to the boys and I,
00:24:43one of them said that he had met Ian Bailey twice.
00:24:46And I was like,
00:24:47what?
00:24:47And that's when the boys were whisked away.
00:24:49Okay.
00:24:49Do you,
00:24:49do you think he did it?
00:24:51Oh,
00:24:52um,
00:24:52I,
00:24:55I reckon,
00:24:55yeah,
00:24:56I reckon he did.
00:24:57But also,
00:24:58I don't know.
00:24:59Yeah.
00:24:59Yeah.
00:25:01Um,
00:25:01he was definitely,
00:25:02it's the hard,
00:25:03it's hard to separate him.
00:25:04Could you know,
00:25:05he's such a,
00:25:05sort of slimy.
00:25:08Yes.
00:25:08Yeah.
00:25:09Uh,
00:25:09why,
00:25:10why do you think he did it?
00:25:11Oh my gosh.
00:25:12I really didn't think it would take this turn.
00:25:15We got to bring out these boys.
00:25:16Bring out the boys.
00:25:17Um,
00:25:18we need to get these boys out here.
00:25:19He's met him twice.
00:25:20Why has he met him twice?
00:25:22This young guy.
00:25:23Do you know these boys?
00:25:24I met them earlier on as well.
00:25:26You met them.
00:25:26Yeah.
00:25:26Yeah.
00:25:27For the first time.
00:25:27Yeah.
00:25:28They've got a bright future.
00:25:29Please God.
00:25:30Yeah.
00:25:32Um,
00:25:34whereabouts in Australia?
00:25:35Oh my God.
00:25:36Thank you so much.
00:25:37North Queensland.
00:25:38North Queensland.
00:25:39Yeah.
00:25:40Are your standup shows like this?
00:25:42Sorry?
00:25:43Are your standup shows like this?
00:25:44Do you,
00:25:45is that what you work on?
00:25:46Do you,
00:25:47it's just like,
00:25:48vibes and feel and language rather than having a particular point.
00:25:51I just vibe out.
00:25:52No,
00:25:52I've got good points.
00:25:53Oh really?
00:25:53Yeah.
00:25:54How dare you?
00:25:56Um,
00:25:56I've got some great points.
00:25:58Yeah.
00:25:58Yeah.
00:25:59And I talk about the topics of the day.
00:26:00Absolutely.
00:26:02I'm fascinated by,
00:26:03uh,
00:26:05how you put stuff together.
00:26:06And I'd like you to talk about that if you would,
00:26:10about that of the persona or whatever the thing is,
00:26:14the,
00:26:14the,
00:26:17the thing that you used to create the tension,
00:26:19whatever that is,
00:26:19and the lines on stage and,
00:26:21and.
00:26:23I like to go to Newground.
00:26:25New,
00:26:25was it Newgrange?
00:26:26Yeah.
00:26:27And I stand in the,
00:26:28in the center of all the three mounds and a lot of ideas come to me.
00:26:32There.
00:26:35I'm very inspired by the salmon of knowledge.
00:26:39Um,
00:26:40but yeah,
00:26:40I,
00:26:41I mean,
00:26:41I think I'm pretty instinctual and I just,
00:26:43I like to get a lot of stage time.
00:26:46Hmm.
00:26:46And,
00:26:46um,
00:26:46I think my hit rate is like,
00:26:48pretty gnarly.
00:26:49So yeah.
00:26:50What,
00:26:50what,
00:26:50what town did you grow up in,
00:26:51in North Queensland?
00:26:52I'm from the Atherton tablelands.
00:26:54What is that?
00:26:55Is that a,
00:26:55so this is near Youngerborough,
00:26:57like quite far North Queensland.
00:26:59We say we've got,
00:26:59uh,
00:27:00tree kangaroos there.
00:27:01How many?
00:27:01Tree kangaroos.
00:27:03No,
00:27:04they're in the trees.
00:27:05Oh,
00:27:05right.
00:27:05Okay.
00:27:06Um,
00:27:09I was kind of thinking that.
00:27:10That's the clip.
00:27:10That's gotta be the clip.
00:27:12Um,
00:27:13do you have a girlfriend?
00:27:16Do.
00:27:16She,
00:27:18um,
00:27:19she works at a university.
00:27:21As?
00:27:22In admissions.
00:27:23So she decides if people get in or not.
00:27:26Oh,
00:27:26did you go to university?
00:27:28Yeah,
00:27:28I studied animation at university.
00:27:30Animation?
00:27:30Yeah.
00:27:31Oh,
00:27:31okay.
00:27:32But I was too young.
00:27:32I was 17.
00:27:33I didn't know,
00:27:34you know,
00:27:35you really,
00:27:35it's a,
00:27:36you need to be so dedicated.
00:27:37Um,
00:27:38for that kind of.
00:27:39What did you do?
00:27:39Did you finish the course in animation?
00:27:41I didn't.
00:27:41I got attracted to the bright lights of stand-up comedy.
00:27:44In what part of Australia?
00:27:46This is in Brisbane.
00:27:47Have you been to Brisbane?
00:27:48Yes, I have.
00:27:49And what's the name of that river there again?
00:27:50The,
00:27:50the quali quali or something or the bingy bingy?
00:27:53Oh,
00:27:53I just go to the Brisbane river.
00:27:54The Brisbane river.
00:27:55That was it.
00:27:55It was one of the three.
00:27:56Yeah.
00:27:57It's,
00:27:58it's,
00:27:58it's a dirty river.
00:27:59Yeah.
00:27:59There's bull sharks in there.
00:28:01There's bull sharks in the river.
00:28:02Is it a funny colour that river?
00:28:03Is it brown or something?
00:28:04Am I remembering that right?
00:28:05Yeah.
00:28:05Yeah.
00:28:05It's nasty.
00:28:06The brown river.
00:28:07It's not drinkable.
00:28:08It's not swimmable.
00:28:09No.
00:28:09Yeah.
00:28:10What do you not like?
00:28:13Gosh.
00:28:15Hmm.
00:28:17Oh,
00:28:18it's a really interesting question.
00:28:20What did I like?
00:28:23Hmm.
00:28:25I guess stuff that is a bit too slick.
00:28:27I feel,
00:28:28you know,
00:28:30and manufactured and just stuff that doesn't have,
00:28:32you know,
00:28:33any soul,
00:28:33any rasa.
00:28:36Wow.
00:28:37Yeah.
00:28:37You just want to be excited by things.
00:28:40Do you know fairly soon getting on stage where the crowd are going to buy
00:28:43into your world?
00:28:46I think I used to be a bit more like that,
00:28:48but now I feel like I can actually change it and change my destiny.
00:28:52Yeah.
00:28:54Yeah.
00:28:54I've had that a few times on things.
00:28:57And stuff like,
00:28:57I've done a lot of these light into the shiny floor,
00:29:00the panel shows in England.
00:29:01Oh yeah.
00:29:01Yeah.
00:29:02And I feel like I,
00:29:03I used to think,
00:29:04oh,
00:29:04straight away,
00:29:04you know,
00:29:05you're like,
00:29:05oh,
00:29:05this is going to be a turd.
00:29:06But recently I've had some where it started horribly.
00:29:09People are just like,
00:29:10this guy's a freak of nature.
00:29:12He stinks.
00:29:13And then I've managed somehow to turn and they go,
00:29:15this guy's,
00:29:16you know,
00:29:16he's a freak of nature,
00:29:17but in a very positive way.
00:29:18What English chat shows have you done?
00:29:20What panel shows?
00:29:21Oh,
00:29:21I love this.
00:29:22I'm the king of the shiny floor Tommy.
00:29:24So have you done eight out of cats do countdown?
00:29:27That one.
00:29:28Eight out of 10 cats.
00:29:28I was dying for you to ask.
00:29:30Yes,
00:29:30I have.
00:29:31Yeah.
00:29:31I've done that a couple of times.
00:29:32And how'd you find that?
00:29:33With big Jim.
00:29:34Yeah.
00:29:34Yeah.
00:29:35Yeah.
00:29:35It was fun.
00:29:36Yeah.
00:29:36It's a really hard,
00:29:37those shows are hard.
00:29:38Like it's,
00:29:39you know,
00:29:39the studio lights,
00:29:41it doesn't,
00:29:42none of it feels conducive.
00:29:43And how do you prepare for something like that?
00:29:46Oh,
00:29:47you prepare a lot.
00:29:48And then you abandon it all and throw it all away.
00:29:50Oh,
00:29:51what kind of stuff do you prepare for countdown?
00:29:53That's where I'm in like dickhead corner.
00:29:55It's called where you're like,
00:29:56they put you next to this intellectual and you just present.
00:29:59Are you besides Susie Dent?
00:30:01Yeah.
00:30:01Yeah.
00:30:01Yeah.
00:30:02She does not suffer fools.
00:30:04Trust me.
00:30:07Are you good at it?
00:30:08Very different to her public persona Tommy.
00:30:11Very different.
00:30:14What other UK panel shows have you done?
00:30:19I've done what I like to you.
00:30:20I've done a bunch of them.
00:30:22Oh yeah.
00:30:22It's a bit of a blurb,
00:30:23but yeah.
00:30:23Yeah.
00:30:23Where do you live now?
00:30:25I live in London.
00:30:26Hmm.
00:30:26Yeah.
00:30:27And do you like that?
00:30:30Yeah.
00:30:30It's taken me a long time to unlock.
00:30:32I used to be so overstimulated and I can't stand the sound of road work.
00:30:39And there was like a lot of work going on.
00:30:40So I moved to Brighton for one year.
00:30:42Hmm.
00:30:42I've never even been there.
00:30:43And I just decided to,
00:30:44and now I've returned to the capital.
00:30:47Do you have many friends?
00:30:48Yeah.
00:30:49I've got a lot of mates.
00:30:50Do you?
00:30:51I think so.
00:30:52Yeah.
00:30:53Just because of the lifestyle.
00:30:54You meet so many people.
00:30:56Yeah.
00:30:56And are you good at calling them up and meeting them?
00:30:58I need to get better at that.
00:30:59Yeah.
00:31:01I imagine there's lots of things in your imagination that you'd love to do.
00:31:05Yeah.
00:31:05Yeah.
00:31:06Like what?
00:31:07Oh,
00:31:08I would like to make a real movie called Dad's Water.
00:31:12Dad's?
00:31:12Water.
00:31:13What's the second word?
00:31:14Water?
00:31:15Water.
00:31:15Yeah.
00:31:16So his dad never came home.
00:31:17So his dad was,
00:31:19his dad says,
00:31:20oh, run me a bath.
00:31:21I'm going out.
00:31:21But he never came back.
00:31:23And so him and his mum left the bath water in there.
00:31:25And he started carrying around a bit of it in a plastic bag.
00:31:28Looking for his dad?
00:31:31Yeah.
00:31:32Yeah.
00:31:36Yeah.
00:31:37Did you move over from Australia on your own?
00:31:40Yeah, I did.
00:31:40Yeah.
00:31:41What was that like?
00:31:42And why did you do it?
00:31:43I honestly don't think I like made the decision.
00:31:46It just sort of happened.
00:31:47I was doing the Edinburgh Fringe.
00:31:49Did you win an award there?
00:31:51Yeah.
00:31:51Yeah.
00:31:52Yeah.
00:31:53Could you give me,
00:31:53it's difficult here because we're just,
00:31:55we're just chatting.
00:31:55Could you give me an example of some of your jokes?
00:31:57That's an awful thing.
00:31:58I understand if you're concerned it won't work.
00:32:02You want me to do a lot,
00:32:04a joke?
00:32:05Just so I get a sense of it.
00:32:06Yeah.
00:32:06If that's okay.
00:32:07Oh Jesus Christ,
00:32:08you've,
00:32:09you've really,
00:32:10you've got me over a barrel here.
00:32:12It's funny to do a joke.
00:32:14My uncle,
00:32:14God my uncle.
00:32:15Your uncle,
00:32:16he's still drinking a lot of coffee there Tommy?
00:32:18Yeah, he does drink lots of coffee.
00:32:19Oh my goodness.
00:32:20Four or five a day,
00:32:21he gets that coffee breath,
00:32:22you know what I'm talking about here?
00:32:23That coffee breath.
00:32:25Yeah.
00:32:25Gosh,
00:32:26we were on the camping trip,
00:32:27he insisted on blowing up my air mattress.
00:32:29It was like sleeping on a tiramisu.
00:32:38That's lovely.
00:32:39That's just a gag.
00:32:40Yeah.
00:32:41I like to,
00:32:42to think of some gags.
00:32:43Are you quite instinctual?
00:32:46Yeah,
00:32:46I think so.
00:32:47Yeah.
00:32:48So rather than having a kind of a,
00:32:49there's either a lot going on or not much going on.
00:32:51I don't know.
00:32:52Yeah.
00:32:52It's maybe not up for me to decide.
00:32:55Are you generally happy?
00:32:58Yeah.
00:32:59Yeah.
00:32:59Mostly.
00:32:59Yeah.
00:33:00Sometimes I can be moody,
00:33:01but I'm catching myself out.
00:33:04Yeah.
00:33:04Hmm.
00:33:05Have you ever been diagnosed with anything?
00:33:07No.
00:33:08No, I haven't.
00:33:10Why is that?
00:33:12Just because we were talking about noise earlier on.
00:33:15Yeah.
00:33:15And the thing,
00:33:17sometimes that can be a,
00:33:19a sensory overload.
00:33:21Yeah.
00:33:21I don't like the road work.
00:33:22Too much clanging.
00:33:23Cut it out.
00:33:24Yeah.
00:33:25Yeah.
00:33:26Yeah.
00:33:27Hmm.
00:33:28Did you have many friends growing up?
00:33:31This angle you're taking where you're like,
00:33:32you've got no mates,
00:33:33you're friendless.
00:33:35You need to be diagnosed.
00:33:36Yeah.
00:33:37Yeah.
00:33:37Yeah.
00:33:38This always happens.
00:33:39Yeah.
00:33:40You see me.
00:33:40I'm the spring chicken.
00:33:41You're the bald eagle.
00:33:42You're very, very.
00:33:44What was the question?
00:33:45Sorry.
00:33:47Did you?
00:33:48Have friends growing up?
00:33:49Oh yeah.
00:33:49Yeah, I did.
00:33:50I was really small.
00:33:51I was like really tiny.
00:33:54Um,
00:33:55I was,
00:33:55I was a small child.
00:33:57Were you like bullied and stuff?
00:33:59I got put in bins,
00:34:00but not in a way that upset me.
00:34:02Yeah.
00:34:03Yeah.
00:34:04I was just in a dream world.
00:34:05I don't,
00:34:06yeah,
00:34:06I didn't get picked on too much.
00:34:07I was always like having a lot of fun,
00:34:09always on missions.
00:34:12Yeah.
00:34:12Yeah.
00:34:14Always had movement,
00:34:15you know,
00:34:15always off to do something.
00:34:17Yeah.
00:34:18To people who have dream children like that,
00:34:21what would you say to them?
00:34:22To parents out there who might be worried about
00:34:24some dream child who's always kind of...
00:34:25Oh, you've got a dreamer on your hand?
00:34:27Yeah.
00:34:29I think you've just got to let them go for it a bit.
00:34:32Yeah.
00:34:33Yeah.
00:34:34My parents were good about,
00:34:35I think they were really,
00:34:37yeah,
00:34:37they're amazing parents for like,
00:34:40they definitely didn't understand what was going on for a long time.
00:34:43Yeah.
00:34:45Did you get into trouble at school?
00:34:46My only,
00:34:46my big hobby growing up was I'd walk on some rocks near where we lived.
00:34:50With,
00:34:50we didn't,
00:34:51I didn't wear shoes ever.
00:34:52And I just walk in big circles.
00:34:55And imagine these,
00:34:56you know,
00:34:57just have like,
00:34:57yeah,
00:34:58sort of ongoing storylines in my head.
00:35:01What bewilders you about the world?
00:35:04What stuff do you just don't understand?
00:35:09In terms of people's behaviour,
00:35:12or stuff that's popular,
00:35:14or,
00:35:16what sort of you call,
00:35:17I don't,
00:35:17why would anybody want to do that?
00:35:20Oh.
00:35:21I don't know,
00:35:22there's a lot of things I really,
00:35:23I feel like everything I sort of face or,
00:35:26you know,
00:35:26go after,
00:35:27the first time I do it,
00:35:28the results are abysmal.
00:35:30So,
00:35:30and then,
00:35:31you know,
00:35:32once I've sort of,
00:35:34gathered my thoughts and have another go at it,
00:35:36I sort of,
00:35:36you know,
00:35:37it unlocks a bit.
00:35:38Hmm.
00:35:39Does that make any sense?
00:35:40Well,
00:35:41not in terms of stuff that you,
00:35:42I don't mean,
00:35:42I don't mean stuff that you don't,
00:35:45understand how it works,
00:35:46but,
00:35:47kind of,
00:35:48why are people interested in that?
00:35:51Yeah, right.
00:35:52Well, do you have,
00:35:52do you have,
00:35:53I guess business,
00:35:55I guess I really struggle to understand business,
00:35:58and people's motivation in business,
00:36:00and people getting excited about,
00:36:02products,
00:36:03and business,
00:36:04and,
00:36:04selling things,
00:36:06and,
00:36:06and,
00:36:08economy.
00:36:09Capital.
00:36:09I just,
00:36:10I don't understand.
00:36:12Yeah,
00:36:12this accountant fella,
00:36:14he told me that,
00:36:15money is just a utility.
00:36:17Yeah.
00:36:18My manager in Australia went bankrupt and took all my money.
00:36:21Um,
00:36:23and,
00:36:23yeah,
00:36:24I feel like,
00:36:25I reacted,
00:36:26but I also,
00:36:27it didn't hurt me as much as,
00:36:30I think other people thought it,
00:36:32did,
00:36:33or that,
00:36:33maybe I should have,
00:36:34I don't know,
00:36:35it's interesting that stuff isn't it?
00:36:36Yeah,
00:36:37it's a very hard,
00:36:37I met this guy when I was 18,
00:36:40and,
00:36:40it was a complicated relationship,
00:36:42so it's sort of,
00:36:43I don't bear him any,
00:36:45he didn't like,
00:36:46steal the money so much as squander it,
00:36:48if that makes sense.
00:36:49Did he go to jail for it?
00:36:50No,
00:36:51he's an arborist now.
00:36:52He's a what?
00:36:53An arborist.
00:36:53What is that?
00:36:54Working with trees.
00:36:57Yeah,
00:36:57he's a bit like a tree.
00:37:00Bit of a shady cunt.
00:37:03That's fine isn't it?
00:37:04Yeah.
00:37:04That's a great joke.
00:37:05Sorry.
00:37:05That's a great joke.
00:37:06I mean,
00:37:07I still talk to him a little bit.
00:37:08Yeah.
00:37:09Which people are like,
00:37:09what are you,
00:37:10that's insane.
00:37:11Yeah.
00:37:12Wow.
00:37:13Um.
00:37:14He's just a cowboy,
00:37:15you know,
00:37:16you go for a ride with the cowboy.
00:37:17And how much money did you lose?
00:37:19Is that gauche to say?
00:37:21Doesn't matter.
00:37:22It's a conversation.
00:37:24Um,
00:37:25it was a lot.
00:37:26Yeah.
00:37:26Like a couple hundred thousand dollars?
00:37:27Yeah,
00:37:28two hundred thousand.
00:37:28Australian,
00:37:29so if that means anything.
00:37:30Probably about 120,000 euro or something.
00:37:33Yeah.
00:37:34It's painful when you spend so long below the poverty line,
00:37:36and then you finally make some money and then,
00:37:38you don't get it.
00:37:40But that's,
00:37:40you know,
00:37:41that's life.
00:37:41But how long ago was it?
00:37:43This was,
00:37:44um,
00:37:44at the end of 2024.
00:37:46Alright,
00:37:47so it's really recently.
00:37:49Oh,
00:37:49yeah,
00:37:50yeah,
00:37:50yeah.
00:37:50Wow.
00:37:51That's a long time,
00:37:52for some people.
00:37:54Yeah.
00:37:54Or for insects.
00:37:55Did you get angry?
00:37:57I sort of went down,
00:37:58I didn't really ever get angry.
00:38:00I sort of got a bit,
00:38:02um,
00:38:03dejected.
00:38:03It was just a tough,
00:38:04it was a tough one.
00:38:05And,
00:38:05and I didn't like people like ringing up and me like,
00:38:08are you okay?
00:38:08I'm hearing about all this.
00:38:10And,
00:38:11yeah,
00:38:11I didn't like that aspect of it.
00:38:13But then a lot of people were very kind and stuff,
00:38:15but I just sort of,
00:38:16wanted to move on straight away.
00:38:19It's kind of,
00:38:20it's,
00:38:20sounds more like being broken hearted.
00:38:24Yeah,
00:38:24maybe it was a bit like that.
00:38:26Yeah.
00:38:27Um,
00:38:29where do you feel the best?
00:38:31In the tub.
00:38:35Uh,
00:38:37work wise.
00:38:38Oh God.
00:38:40Um,
00:38:43I like the,
00:38:44the creation process,
00:38:45like the early parts of it,
00:38:47figuring it out,
00:38:48even though it's painful.
00:38:49Like I like the,
00:38:49putting it together.
00:38:51And like,
00:38:52do you mean like on your own for a solo standup show?
00:38:55Sort of anything when it,
00:38:57when you've started to gather a bit of momentum and you're finally like comfortable in making it.
00:39:01That's,
00:39:02I think the most rewarding part.
00:39:05Mm.
00:39:06Uh,
00:39:07where can people see you perform in Ireland?
00:39:09And when?
00:39:11I'll be performing in Vicar Street.
00:39:13This is a beautiful venue.
00:39:15When will you be in Vicar Street?
00:39:17I think it's ages away.
00:39:19It's like October,
00:39:19I think.
00:39:20Okay.
00:39:20Yeah.
00:39:21And also no pressure to come.
00:39:23Yeah.
00:39:25Yeah.
00:39:26It's not,
00:39:27I would say it's not inconsequential,
00:39:29but it's not important.
00:39:30So yeah.
00:39:31But thank you for,
00:39:31for what,
00:39:32for coming.
00:39:33If you do come,
00:39:34I really appreciate it.
00:39:37I want to show you a great time.
00:39:41Oh goodness.
00:39:43Uh,
00:39:43it's been lovely talking to you.
00:39:44Oh,
00:39:45Oh,
00:39:45oh yeah.
00:39:45Yeah.
00:39:46Yeah.
00:39:46Sorry.
00:39:47I don't think I'm very good at this kind of stuff.
00:39:49I enjoyed it a lot.
00:39:50Uh,
00:39:50so this is it.
00:39:51Hey,
00:39:51I'd never see you again.
00:39:57Thanks.
00:39:57It's been an honor.
00:39:59I bless this ring as well.
00:40:01Stay sitting down there.
00:40:02Oh really?
00:40:03Okay.
00:40:03Sorry.
00:40:03Yeah.
00:40:04But thank you for having me.
00:40:05My pleasure fella.
00:40:06Yeah.
00:40:06I hope it was fun.
00:40:07That was wild.
00:40:08Was it wild?
00:40:09Yeah.
00:40:24Welcome back to the third half,
00:40:25everybody.
00:40:26Who's next,
00:40:27Freddie?
00:40:28Tommy.
00:40:28Our next guest is,
00:40:30Jan Brierton.
00:40:39Hello.
00:40:40How does it go?
00:40:41Good now.
00:40:42Karen.
00:40:43Oh.
00:40:44You smell great.
00:40:45Oh,
00:40:46thanks very much.
00:40:47Kind of lemony,
00:40:48lively,
00:40:49citrusy.
00:40:50Smell-o-vision.
00:40:52I'll have a dress that smells,
00:40:54please.
00:40:55I know,
00:40:56are you a poet?
00:40:58Yeah,
00:40:58I am.
00:40:59Is that how I know your name?
00:41:00Yeah.
00:41:01Yeah.
00:41:01Well,
00:41:01you don't know me for the other things that I am,
00:41:04like I'm a mam,
00:41:04and you wouldn't know me for that,
00:41:06because I'm not your mam.
00:41:07But yeah,
00:41:08I'm a poet.
00:41:09I thought you said a man.
00:41:10Oh, a man.
00:41:10No.
00:41:11A mam.
00:41:12No, not last time I checked.
00:41:13Yeah, yeah, mam.
00:41:14Yeah.
00:41:16And a poet.
00:41:17I work in fashion as well.
00:41:19I always say like,
00:41:21I'm an accidental poet,
00:41:24because I wrote my first poem in COVID,
00:41:29and I'd never written a poem before.
00:41:31So,
00:41:32I had my fifth poetry anniversary
00:41:35in January of 2026.
00:41:37So, yeah, so.
00:41:38When you were growing up,
00:41:39what was your exposure or knowledge
00:41:41of poets and poetry?
00:41:45Probably a bit like everybody in Ireland,
00:41:48sounding,
00:41:48you know,
00:41:49the horrible book.
00:41:50Although,
00:41:51there seems to be a new love for it now.
00:41:52Sure, yeah, yeah.
00:41:53Erm,
00:41:54and I remember,
00:41:56you know,
00:41:56and honestly,
00:41:57I can't even remember half of the poems in it,
00:41:58but,
00:41:59I do remember sitting in the class,
00:42:01and, you know,
00:42:02the English teacher,
00:42:03you know,
00:42:03open your books on whatever page,
00:42:06and,
00:42:06he'd start a particular poem,
00:42:09and,
00:42:10you'd get your pencil out,
00:42:11and he'd read the first line,
00:42:12and then he'd almost translate it to you,
00:42:15in,
00:42:15no matter what the poem,
00:42:16or the poet,
00:42:17or whatever it was,
00:42:17and that's how I understood poetry,
00:42:20or misunderstood it,
00:42:21like I was like,
00:42:21well,
00:42:22it's not really for me,
00:42:23is it?
00:42:23Because I don't really know what they're talking about,
00:42:25with the,
00:42:25you know,
00:42:26I mean,
00:42:27the stony grey soil,
00:42:28and all,
00:42:28like,
00:42:28what's that?
00:42:29Like,
00:42:30you know,
00:42:30so it wasn't,
00:42:31anything that,
00:42:32poetry wasn't,
00:42:33in that form,
00:42:34wasn't something that,
00:42:35I would have felt I was exposed to.
00:42:37What part of Dublin did you grow up in?
00:42:40Eh,
00:42:40Talla.
00:42:41Yeah,
00:42:42and I live on the north side now,
00:42:43I live in Calester,
00:42:44so I'm,
00:42:45I'm this weird,
00:42:46kind of,
00:42:47hybrid of north sides,
00:42:48south sides.
00:42:49Yeah.
00:42:50Yeah.
00:42:50Um,
00:42:51so were there song lyrics,
00:42:53growing up,
00:42:54that you,
00:42:56I mean,
00:42:57you know,
00:42:57pretty basic stuff,
00:42:58like,
00:42:59wake me up before you go-go,
00:43:00you know,
00:43:00things like that,
00:43:01that were just purely beautiful and genius to me.
00:43:04Nothing too demanding.
00:43:05Nothing too demanding,
00:43:06and that's a bit like me poetry as well,
00:43:08like,
00:43:08it's very simple,
00:43:10I write,
00:43:10you know,
00:43:11kind of,
00:43:12very plainly,
00:43:12I write as I speak,
00:43:13and I write about stuff,
00:43:15like, the everyday,
00:43:16and I do it in a way that,
00:43:17you know,
00:43:18you don't need to get out your pencil
00:43:19and translate it in between the lines,
00:43:21I think.
00:43:22Um,
00:43:23but yeah,
00:43:23just back to,
00:43:25like, music,
00:43:26that would have been a big deal for me,
00:43:27growing up,
00:43:28I bought smash hits.
00:43:29Oh yeah.
00:43:30All the time.
00:43:31And,
00:43:31my favourite bit out of smash hits was the,
00:43:34you know,
00:43:34when they print out the lyrics.
00:43:36Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:43:36You know,
00:43:37and then the last one was always,
00:43:38repeat to fade.
00:43:40Which obviously wasn't part of the lyric,
00:43:42you know.
00:43:42Yeah.
00:43:43And I loved that bit,
00:43:45and I took all that kind of in,
00:43:46you know.
00:43:47like,
00:43:48I think,
00:43:49that maybe is where the poetry,
00:43:51or the lyricism,
00:43:52or the rhythmic kind of thing of words,
00:43:55you know.
00:43:56What did you do between school and Covid?
00:43:59I wanted to do,
00:44:01I think it was,
00:44:02I was at the time,
00:44:03media studies,
00:44:05which,
00:44:06you know,
00:44:07I was cutting and slicing bits of tape,
00:44:09you know,
00:44:09for recordings and stuff.
00:44:11I did that for a year or two.
00:44:14Then I basically went clubbing,
00:44:17and enjoyed Dublin's nightlife,
00:44:20and that would have been in the early 90s and stuff,
00:44:22and did that for a number of years.
00:44:24Yeah.
00:44:24And worked in fashion,
00:44:26in retail,
00:44:28and then progressed,
00:44:30if it is that,
00:44:31to working for myself as a fashion stylist.
00:44:34So I still work in fashion now.
00:44:36It's my,
00:44:36my bread and butter.
00:44:37It's weird,
00:44:38because now,
00:44:39like as a,
00:44:40you know,
00:44:40middle aged woman,
00:44:42I,
00:44:42go to clubbing now,
00:44:44for,
00:44:45therapy nearly,
00:44:46like it's better than any yoga class.
00:44:49It's,
00:44:50you know,
00:44:50it frees your body,
00:44:51it frees my mind,
00:44:52and listening to all them,
00:44:53banging tunes from like,
00:44:55you know,
00:44:55The Temple of Sound,
00:44:56and you know,
00:44:57wherever else I used to go.
00:44:58Are there people,
00:44:59your age there?
00:45:01Yeah,
00:45:02yeah.
00:45:02I mean,
00:45:03don't get me wrong now,
00:45:03I'm not going regular,
00:45:04because,
00:45:05like I don't,
00:45:06I don't know that,
00:45:08that I actually have the capacity,
00:45:09to go once a week now,
00:45:11which you know,
00:45:11I get wrecked.
00:45:13And actually,
00:45:14like before,
00:45:15I arrived here today,
00:45:17I had the,
00:45:18turned up to 12 at home,
00:45:20and I was like,
00:45:21I thought you were going to say,
00:45:21you had your prostate exam.
00:45:22Oh yeah,
00:45:23I was doing,
00:45:25I don't think you have a prostate,
00:45:26do you?
00:45:27No,
00:45:27no,
00:45:27that's right,
00:45:28no,
00:45:28well,
00:45:29you have access to one.
00:45:29Not one of my own.
00:45:33Like,
00:45:34I was dancing.
00:45:34What were you doing there?
00:45:36I don't know,
00:45:36I was twirling maybe?
00:45:38What dance move is that?
00:45:41It's Dr Foley and me,
00:45:42that's what it is.
00:45:45It's good,
00:45:45normally I'm doing that.
00:45:48But like,
00:45:49yeah,
00:45:49I felt,
00:45:50even like today,
00:45:51like I was dancing around my bedroom,
00:45:53in my big double gusset,
00:45:55you know,
00:45:56middle aged knickers,
00:45:57and me push up bra.
00:45:59I'm actually just enjoying my body,
00:46:01enjoying just moving it around,
00:46:03and not,
00:46:04not for anyone,
00:46:05not,
00:46:06you know,
00:46:07not,
00:46:08not showing to anyone.
00:46:09I don't think,
00:46:10I think maybe that's,
00:46:11that's the difference.
00:46:12You're not,
00:46:12in a club,
00:46:13it's dark,
00:46:14and you're not maybe there to be,
00:46:16showing yourself off.
00:46:17Do you know what I mean?
00:46:18Yeah.
00:46:19So,
00:46:21Will I read a poem about me body?
00:46:24Yes,
00:46:25please.
00:46:28Sorry,
00:46:28they're not questions are they?
00:46:29Sorry Tommy,
00:46:30here we go.
00:46:30That was an announcement.
00:46:31Yeah,
00:46:32if that was an announcement.
00:46:33That was get ready for this.
00:46:35That was get ready for this.
00:46:36Yeah,
00:46:37I'm gonna just have to kind of sprinkle them in,
00:46:38I suppose,
00:46:39will I?
00:46:39Or you tell me,
00:46:40if you wanna hear it.
00:46:41Too late for that.
00:46:42Sorry love.
00:46:43Okay,
00:46:43this one's called sound body.
00:46:45Like,
00:46:46I look in the mirror sometimes,
00:46:47and it would be quite concerning,
00:46:48but it would be concerning to me,
00:46:49how I speak to myself,
00:46:51about my body,
00:46:52and the language that I might use about it,
00:46:53and then,
00:46:54Do you weigh yourself much?
00:46:55I don't weigh myself,
00:46:56I don't have a,
00:46:56this is mad,
00:46:57like,
00:46:58when you go to,
00:46:59the doctor and all,
00:47:00or if he, you know,
00:47:01and they ask you,
00:47:02what weight are you,
00:47:02I genuinely don't know.
00:47:05So,
00:47:05my dad's in hospital,
00:47:06and they weighed him.
00:47:07When we were in A&E,
00:47:08waiting to get him in,
00:47:09like I'm the only child,
00:47:11so,
00:47:11I stood him up on the thing,
00:47:12just to keep him busy,
00:47:13and I was like,
00:47:14come on,
00:47:14get up as well,
00:47:15you can weigh me too.
00:47:16So,
00:47:16I can't remember what it said.
00:47:18It's not important.
00:47:19Here we go,
00:47:20sound body.
00:47:21Dear body,
00:47:22I didn't mean what I said
00:47:24about your wobbly bits.
00:47:25I love your stretch marks,
00:47:26and your scars,
00:47:27and your big droopy tits.
00:47:28I love your round,
00:47:30blancmange belly,
00:47:30and your two boiled ham ties.
00:47:32I love the crepe paper creases
00:47:34around each of your eyes.
00:47:36I love the pimple that lodges
00:47:37on your forehead for weeks.
00:47:39I love the hair on your toes,
00:47:41and the dimples on your bum cheeks.
00:47:43And though sometimes I wish
00:47:45that your legs were longer,
00:47:47I'm you,
00:47:47and you're me,
00:47:49and together we're stronger.
00:47:51You hold me,
00:47:52you host me,
00:47:52you move me around.
00:47:54My body,
00:47:55my gift,
00:47:56dear body,
00:47:57your sound.
00:48:02It's a big mischief face on you.
00:48:04I just want to burst out giggling.
00:48:06I just thought if I'd,
00:48:07if there's a husband who
00:48:11took that tone with his beloved.
00:48:13Oh yeah.
00:48:15Yeah.
00:48:15I love the hair on your toes,
00:48:17and your big ass.
00:48:19Your big droopy tits.
00:48:21There's so much to love though.
00:48:25Mmm.
00:48:26It's a different kind of love poem,
00:48:28isn't it?
00:48:29It's liberating though,
00:48:31you know.
00:48:32Yes.
00:48:34How did you end up having published books of poetry?
00:48:37How did that happen?
00:48:39So,
00:48:40oh God,
00:48:41it's just like,
00:48:42gorgeous stuff happened to me
00:48:44when I was in my 40s.
00:48:45Like, I mean,
00:48:46I don't, like,
00:48:46I wrote my first poem.
00:48:48It was called,
00:48:49What day is it?
00:48:49Who gives a fuck?
00:48:50And that was in,
00:48:53yeah, yeah.
00:48:55Sounds like something,
00:48:56like something a wonderful four year old would say.
00:48:59Yeah.
00:49:00A wonderful 46 year old would say.
00:49:04Oh, I love that.
00:49:05You know.
00:49:05I just love the idea of,
00:49:06you know,
00:49:09someone in junior infants coming into the kitchen
00:49:11first thing in the morning.
00:49:12What day is it?
00:49:13Who gives a fuck?
00:49:14Yeah.
00:49:15My son brought it into school.
00:49:16You know, when they had World Poetry Day.
00:49:19Look, the glass are going back on.
00:49:20I'm going to read it to you, right?
00:49:21Because I say that this is like my,
00:49:23you know,
00:49:24my number one single.
00:49:28And I just hope,
00:49:29one hit wonder,
00:49:30but you know,
00:49:31like if I was on top of the Pops,
00:49:32this would be the one that,
00:49:33you know,
00:49:33I'd be doing.
00:49:34So it was January 2021.
00:49:37Um, so here we go.
00:49:39What day is it?
00:49:40Who gives a fuck?
00:49:41I teach.
00:49:42I clean.
00:49:43I play.
00:49:43I cook.
00:49:44This lockdown is a fucking pain.
00:49:46Oh, look.
00:49:47Fuck sake.
00:49:48Here comes the rain.
00:49:50Another day.
00:49:51Another park.
00:49:52I'm wishing it just get dark.
00:49:54Please.
00:49:55No more fucking walks or yoga or baking or art with chalks.
00:49:59No meditation.
00:50:01Fuck cold sea dips.
00:50:03And fuck your healthy eating tips.
00:50:05All I want is a fucking hug.
00:50:08A chat close up with a massive mug of tea.
00:50:11None of this take out crap.
00:50:12I touch your hands.
00:50:14You'd slap me back.
00:50:15We'd laugh and talk.
00:50:16I'd share my cake.
00:50:18We'd talk about who we think is fake.
00:50:19We might say, fuck it.
00:50:21Stay out late.
00:50:23We'd grab an early bird today.
00:50:25We'd talk and chat and talk some more.
00:50:27We'd link as we walked out the door.
00:50:29And on the bus, I text to say, my friend, I've had a lovely day.
00:50:35But fuck, what day is it?
00:50:38I don't have a fuck.
00:50:40I teach.
00:50:41I clean.
00:50:42I play.
00:50:43I cook.
00:50:45God.
00:50:47Yeah.
00:50:49So that was the first one.
00:50:51Wow.
00:50:52Yeah.
00:50:53What a start.
00:50:54Yeah, it was.
00:50:55Like it was deadly.
00:50:56And I don't know where it came from.
00:50:58And it was.
00:50:59I wrote.
00:50:59It was 11 o'clock at night.
00:51:03And that came out.
00:51:04That's not edited.
00:51:05Like I literally just scribbled it down.
00:51:07My daughter was reading Harry Potter in the bed beside me.
00:51:10I went downstairs to my husband.
00:51:12And I was like, I think I'm after writing a poem.
00:51:14And he just picked up the remote control and paused it.
00:51:17And just put it down and said, okay.
00:51:21And I was like, do you want to read it?
00:51:24And he was like, no, you read it to me.
00:51:28And so I was like, Daisy, who gives a fuck?
00:51:31And it was just like this big, you know, it was like this.
00:51:35I was cracked open.
00:51:36And he just went, is everything okay?
00:51:40He is my calm.
00:51:42I am the chaos.
00:51:44And I said, yeah, everything is great.
00:51:46It's brilliant.
00:51:46And I felt amazing.
00:51:48And he's like, okay.
00:51:51And, you know, I was like, I think I've written a poem.
00:51:55And so I typed it out on my phone.
00:51:57And I sent it to a few of the mammies.
00:52:01And the other, mostly women, I have to say, who were feeling the pent-upness.
00:52:05And that, you know, where you were just, you were everything.
00:52:07You were the chaperone to the playground.
00:52:09You were the cook.
00:52:09You were the cleaner.
00:52:10You know, everything.
00:52:14And, yeah, it got shared.
00:52:16And then Roisin Ingle actually from the Irish Times, she posted it.
00:52:20And she put it in the Irish Times.
00:52:23And then it just kind of snowballed from there.
00:52:26And I had, my first book was published in, like, I think it was the May after the January.
00:52:32Because, like, everything happened very quickly.
00:52:36It all got sourced in Ireland.
00:52:37It was, I started doing kind of performance.
00:52:39And, I mean, performance, I say, like I'm reading them.
00:52:43It's not, you know, I can't, I can't remember.
00:52:45I can't remember my own poems, even the short ones.
00:52:49And that kind of grew.
00:52:50And I don't know what it was came over me, Tommy.
00:52:54I just was like, do you know what?
00:52:55I'm going to, going to go with this.
00:52:58And I was emailing people at Electric Picnic going, can I come and do a thing at Electric Picnic?
00:53:02And just being a bit ballsy about it.
00:53:06And then the second book came.
00:53:08And I wrote to, I wrote to Dr. John Cooper-Clark.
00:53:12Oh, wow.
00:53:12Because I'm not particularly a poetry head in the traditional senses.
00:53:17I suppose.
00:53:18But I would have been aware of John because, you know, you'd see him on the telly and all.
00:53:21And, you know, I want to be yours.
00:53:24And, you know, that kind of intrinsic link between kind of music and everything else.
00:53:30And I'd been to see him live.
00:53:32And I remember looking around me going, if I could have ten, five minutes here, this would be the right
00:53:40place for me.
00:53:42So when the second book came out, I made sure to send a copy to him.
00:53:46And I wrote a letter and said, if you're next in Dublin, can I have ten minutes?
00:53:51Just give me five.
00:53:53I'd love to do something.
00:53:55And in, was it May of, not last year, but the year before, I opened in the Olympia, which was
00:54:03amazing, you know.
00:54:04And then last year, I opened from the London Palladium.
00:54:08And he was the first poet actually to read at the Manchester Arena, like an arena gig.
00:54:15And I did that with him as well.
00:54:17That's what, 8,000 people or something?
00:54:18Yeah.
00:54:19Yeah.
00:54:20And so doing the stuff with John and all was, you know, like that's like pinch me kind of stuff,
00:54:26you know.
00:54:28And like, as a result of that now, I'll be, I'll be on stage with him again in Dublin and
00:54:32Belfast this year.
00:54:34I'm going on tour with another brilliant poet, Henry Normal.
00:54:38Oh, yeah.
00:54:39He, yeah, he's a TV writer, like, and he's worked with Caroline, like people who I actually admire.
00:54:44I'm a big telly head, like, and that was my thing growing up, an A4 size.
00:54:49He's a baby cow, isn't he, Henry Normal?
00:54:50Yeah, yeah.
00:54:51And he's worked with Caroline Hearn and Steve Cooper.
00:54:53And all of these people who actually, I just love how they write.
00:54:57They write with heart and they write so plainly and, but so beautifully and it affects you.
00:55:01It makes you laugh and cry at the same time.
00:55:04Someone said to me after one of my shows, there wasn't a dry seat in the house.
00:55:08And I was like, okay, yeah, can I put that on one of the, you know, the books or whatever.
00:55:13Someone else also said I was like Pam Ayers on acid.
00:55:16I'll take that one as well.
00:55:18Um, why do you think your parents only had one child?
00:55:21Well, they didn't, uh, they had two and my brother died about eight years ago.
00:55:26So I'm now an only child.
00:55:29It's a, it's a new, a new title that I have or newish title.
00:55:33Yeah.
00:55:34Yeah.
00:55:34And so I've written a poem about my brother.
00:55:36It's called The Last Conversation We Never Had.
00:55:38And so it's me having a conversation with him like today.
00:55:43Um, and so he, he was, I'm so careful about this as well, because anybody who is living with someone
00:55:49who is in addiction will know that the person isn't only, that's not the only thing about that person.
00:55:57Um, but it's very difficult not to let the addiction wipe out the person because sometimes that's all you can
00:56:05see first.
00:56:08And so I'm very careful when I say my brother, you know, I don't want to say my brother was
00:56:14an addict because that's not the only thing about him, but it was very much a very, not an important
00:56:19thing, but a very prominent thing in our family life and in his life.
00:56:22Um, and he, uh, you know, when he overdosed, um, so, you know, he lost his life to his addiction.
00:56:30So, yeah, so that's, so that, that was it.
00:56:32So I don't suppose they set off to have just me, but they've wound up with just me.
00:56:37So I do my best for them because I'm on my own.
00:56:40You're giving me a tissue.
00:56:43Thanks.
00:56:44Oh, bless you.
00:56:44That's so nice.
00:56:46Do you want to read it?
00:56:47Oh, will I?
00:56:48Yeah.
00:56:49Okay.
00:56:51Well, I'll just, uh, this one always gets, um, sometimes it gets me.
00:56:57Sometimes I'm really able for it.
00:56:59Sometimes I'm not.
00:57:02Um, no, I think I'll be all right.
00:57:04Cause you see, you've, you've been the crack already.
00:57:07Yeah, that's it.
00:57:08Yeah.
00:57:09I've had all the, I've thrown a few fucks around and now I'm going to throw a few, a bit
00:57:14of heartache around.
00:57:15Um, so this is called the last conversation we never had.
00:57:20So it's me talking to my brother.
00:57:24How was your day?
00:57:25You're looking well.
00:57:26Are you feeling okay?
00:57:28Do you need to tell someone about the pain that you're in?
00:57:31Tell me, tell me I'm your blister and skin.
00:57:35You think I don't hear you, but I see all your heart.
00:57:38We all feel it.
00:57:39We live it.
00:57:40Ma'am goes to church and prays every Sunday for your safe return from your pain and your aching.
00:57:47That one day you'll learn to live and to love unconditionally you.
00:57:51To go easy, to be gentle after all you've been through.
00:57:55Talk, I'll listen.
00:57:57No solutions I'll give.
00:57:59I don't have the answers, but I want you to live.
00:58:02When the numbness and dark covers you like a quilt, it's normal your feelings of shame and of guilt.
00:58:09There's much more to you than the tablets you take or the drink that you drown in or the mistakes
00:58:14that you make.
00:58:15I tell you to work on yourself as you are.
00:58:18To accept all your flaws.
00:58:20It's not easy.
00:58:21It's hard.
00:58:22I know because I'm learning to live with all mine.
00:58:24Someone says, how are you?
00:58:25You feel shit, but say fine.
00:58:27I'd say, talk tomorrow.
00:58:30Get some rest.
00:58:31Take it easy.
00:58:32I love you, my brother.
00:58:34You'd say, don't be cheesy.
00:58:36Not much has changed since I spoke with you last.
00:58:39The kids do their sports.
00:58:41Ma'am still goes to mass.
00:58:43Dad got a new telly.
00:58:44He hasn't mastered his phone.
00:58:46And like when you were here, they wish you would come home.
00:58:54Yeah.
00:58:57What is his name?
00:58:58Alan.
00:59:00Yeah, the book is dedicated to him and Cecilia, my mother-in-law.
00:59:08Jan, thank you so much for coming on.
00:59:11Oh, thank you for having me.
00:59:13That was a good yap.
00:59:14Yeah, it was.
00:59:15Yeah.
00:59:16We'll do it again.
00:59:17Please go on.
00:59:20And now, ladies and gentlemen, would you please welcome Cormac Begley and Liam O'Connor performing Ryan's rant from their
00:59:26album, Into the Loam.
00:59:29oh!
00:59:29I'm sorry.
00:59:40It was so понял.
00:59:41Oh!
00:59:42No!
00:59:56Doh!
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