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00:01On a June morning in 2010, in a fine Georgian mansion over Merrion Square, the management of Custom House Capital
00:09made their way to the first floor boardroom.
00:13They were gathering for the last installment of a team-building exercise.
00:18The management team was led by CHC's directors, Harry Cassidy, the chief executive, John White, the investment director, and John
00:27Mulholland, who had set up the firm with Cassidy a decade previously.
00:33Cassidy presented the analogy of a castle on a hill, a vision of what CHC would become.
00:40It was a sham. Cassidy's castle on the hill was more like pie in the sky.
00:49The office of the financial regulator, on which CHC depended for its license to operate, wanted to get rid of
00:56Cassidy.
00:57It feared for the safety of funds that clients had entrusted to CHC.
01:07The stuff going on in the background, Custom House Capital's dark secret, was that it was stealing from its clients'
01:16accounts.
01:21They loved Christmas!
01:22It was definitely ailling day!
01:23Theỡ Po 노래 Imagines
01:54Some of those who lost money in the collapse of Custom House Capital in 2011
01:58came to court for today's sentencing.
02:01Judge Orla Crowe said she had read more than 200 victim impact statements
02:05from former clients.
02:07Most were hardworking people who had carefully put aside money for their retirement.
02:12How did the central bank go into that company in 2009
02:15and those people were able to continue to do what they did?
02:18I don't think our investment went bad because it was a bad investment.
02:21I think our investment went bad because bad people took our money
02:25and did bad things with it.
02:26It's kind of shocking really when you think about it.
02:29You know, like I'd feel better if I'd been scammed by a fella on the end of the phone.
02:33The prosecution received victim impact statements from 197 people.
02:38Many of those who lost life savings they thought they had invested for their retirement
02:43came to court for the sentence hearing.
02:45What we had worked hard for all those decades was squandered by a handful of people.
02:50Some of their husbands committed suicide.
02:52Some people just gave up.
02:59I knew the life she'd lived and how hard she'd worked and her health condition.
03:04And to say to her,
03:06Helga, all your money is gone, just down a black hole,
03:09by a guy that you trusted with your life.
03:14The first email I got off the guards,
03:17it was addressed to their victim.
03:19And that hit me.
03:20Being called a victim.
03:22When you think about the scale of what was before us
03:25at the investigation stage,
03:26where there's potentially 2,700 investors,
03:29tens of millions of euros misappropriated,
03:31the book of evidence alone ran into 7,500 pages.
03:36It was an absolute huge investigation.
03:45The new Dundrum Town Centre stands on an 18-acre site.
03:49The first phase has taken almost five years to complete
03:52and local people queued from early morning to get their first look inside.
03:56I just want to see the shops,
03:58see all the nice things that's in the shops.
04:01At 10 o'clock, the waiting ended.
04:05I never thought I could live
04:07to either see the Lewis or to see the centre.
04:11It's absolutely marvellous.
04:15I had set up a business in 1995.
04:19So by the time 2005 and 2006 came along,
04:24the country was singing.
04:28The company was doing well
04:30and I was in a position to decide
04:33what I wanted to do with that money.
04:34Was I, you know, going to go mad
04:36and buy an Aston Martin
04:38or would I be sensible
04:40and put it into a pension fund?
04:42So a pension fund is what I ended up doing.
04:47The arrival of American multinationals
04:50had begun in a big way
04:52and then things were moving forward
04:54and they were moving forward
04:56most clearly in the property area.
05:00What was going on in Ireland at the stage
05:03was you're buying something today
05:04and you're selling it a month later
05:0630% more than you bought it
05:07and all this carry on.
05:08This morphed into a classic financial bubble
05:12where I haven't taken part in the bubble
05:15but my neighbour next door
05:17is now driving a spanking big new car
05:19and they're away on holidays half the time
05:22and my wife is looking at me saying
05:24what's wrong with us?
05:25It's because we're not on property.
05:28Well I had a pension advisor
05:30most of the property opportunities
05:33in Dublin certainly
05:36a lot of them were taken up
05:37so he had said to me
05:39there's this company has set up
05:41called Custom House Capital
05:43and they were looking at
05:45investing in property
05:48outside of Ireland.
05:49Established in 1997
05:51Custom House Capital
05:53is one of Ireland's
05:54most dynamic wealth management companies
05:57and currently manages
05:59over 1 billion euros
06:00on behalf of clients.
06:02Their sales pitch was
06:03aggressive returns and growth
06:05that was the pitch
06:06so they went for that quite strongly
06:09and it worked
06:10and people were attracted by it.
06:18My aunt was born in a city called Kiel
06:21in northern Germany
06:22it's on the Baltic
06:23she was born in 1928
06:25the war broke out
06:26when she was 11 years old
06:27she lost her mother
06:28at 12 years of age
06:29in the back of a truck
06:31bombed out city
06:32her father was quite elderly
06:33so she became a carer for him
06:35my uncle
06:36and he met this
06:37at that stage
06:3717 year old beautiful girl
06:40her father accepted my uncle
06:41because he was Irish
06:42rather than English
06:43they married some years later
06:44and they rebuilt a little shop
06:47and she worked in that shop
06:48for 50 years
06:496 in the morning
06:50until 6 in the evening.
06:53She loved Ireland
06:54she had pretty little Connemara
06:55so they sold their business
06:57brought their money to Dublin
06:59put it into Guinness Mahan Bank
07:00which was the place
07:01if you had a lump sum at the time
07:03she met Harry Cassidy there
07:04he was obviously dealt with her money.
07:07So he came from a business culture
07:08that would have been
07:09probably Cavalier
07:10is probably the best term
07:11I could use to describe it
07:12he came from Guinness and Mahan
07:14which was Des Treynor
07:15who was Charles Hawley's accountant
07:16and Tink Ansbacker accounts
07:18and offshore money.
07:19This afternoon
07:20Sandra Kells
07:21of Guinness and Mahan Bank
07:22was explaining
07:23how they became embroiled
07:24with the Pruner brothers
07:25Fernando and Andreas
07:26who ran an organised crime ring
07:29in Miami, Florida.
07:30There was that kind of business culture
07:31at the time
07:32that he'd sprung up out of as well
07:33he came in strong
07:34in the 70s and 80s
07:35he was an ambitious guy
07:36he was known as a business development guy
07:37not a technocrat
07:38and that stood to him
07:39in those times.
07:42Business was founded
07:43by my grandfather
07:44in 1949
07:45it was a drinks wholesale business
07:48serving pubs
07:49and clubs
07:50and hotels
07:50in County Kildare
07:51both my dad
07:52and his brother
07:53and my grandfather
07:54ran the business
07:54successfully
07:55for a long number of years.
07:57They had an accountant
07:57and Roy
07:59advised them
08:00to start planning
08:01for post-retirement
08:03or for the future
08:03introduced them
08:04to John Mulholland
08:06and Harry Cassidy
08:08Harry was in Guinness
08:09and Mahan at the time
08:10the bank
08:10and some investments
08:11were made obviously
08:13and they grew quite well.
08:17I was with the Investment Bank of Ireland
08:20and my husband also worked
08:21in the same institution
08:22which to quote the promo
08:24at the time
08:25was the merchant banking arm
08:26of the Bank of Ireland group.
08:28So that was the start
08:29of the relationship with Harry.
08:30He was with the Investment Department
08:32for quite a few years
08:33and then he left
08:34and he went to
08:35Guinness and Mahan.
08:37To best my knowledge
08:38he didn't have a college education
08:39he did the Institute of Taxation exams
08:41and excelled at them
08:42as far as I'm aware.
08:44But yeah
08:44so he would have been
08:45straight out of school
08:46and into the bank.
08:47He did have a great way
08:48with clients
08:48very good way with clients
08:50and clients trusted him.
08:53I had transferred funds
08:55that I had come into
08:56as a result of the death
08:57of my husband.
08:58I transferred those
08:59to Guinness Man
09:01under Harry's
09:02guidance if you like.
09:04And you trusted him?
09:05Oh implicitly.
09:07Implicitly.
09:09Like a lot of Irish people
09:10at the time
09:11it was based on relationships
09:12it was based on trust
09:13it was based on
09:14a point of contact
09:15I suppose maybe
09:1620 or 30 or 40 years
09:18before that
09:18it was if you were
09:19a small town
09:20business person in Ireland
09:22if the bank manager
09:23came to you
09:23and said you should
09:24invest in this product
09:25that's what you did
09:26because you trusted
09:27a bank manager.
09:291980s, 1990s
09:30there was a lot of big
09:32institutions
09:32that would have
09:32invested in pension management
09:34the economy was becoming
09:35buoyant
09:35and probably thought
09:36why am I working here
09:37or why am I giving
09:38two thirds of this away
09:39when theoretically
09:40I could set up my own shop
09:41keep it for myself
09:42and build up a business
09:43that's going to be worth
09:44something down the line.
09:45Harry was great
09:46great fun
09:48very good sense of humour
09:49short fuse
09:50when he exploded
09:51he exploded
09:52I mean he had
09:53a bit of the
09:53small man syndrome
09:54but he didn't have
09:56in stature
09:57he made up for
09:58in taxation
09:59expertise
10:01running into
10:02investment expertise
10:03and arrogance.
10:05Hi, Harry Cassidy
10:06from Custom House
10:07Capital Limited
10:08with another thought
10:09for the day.
10:10Did you know
10:10that Donald Trump
10:11is worth around
10:122.6 billion dollars
10:13and that if you
10:14laid his money
10:15in dollar bills
10:16end to end
10:17it would stretch
10:17all the way
10:18to the moon
10:18with a bit to spare.
10:20So what does this
10:20have to do
10:21with Custom House
10:21Capital Limited?
10:22Well chances are
10:23you feel your pension fund
10:25wouldn't even stretch
10:25into the middle
10:26of next week
10:27which is why
10:28it would be
10:28a rather good idea
10:29to call us
10:30today.
10:31Custom House
10:31Capital Limited
10:32is regulated
10:32by the Financial Regulator
10:33under Section 10
10:34of the Investment
10:35Intermediaries Act
10:361995.
10:37Because they'd
10:38obviously dealt
10:38with him
10:38in Guinness Man
10:39they thought
10:40Harry is the man
10:41so they sent
10:42their money forward
10:43to Dublin
10:43with the intention
10:44of buying a house
10:44here or building a house
10:45so she trusted him
10:46implicitly.
10:47They had strong brands
10:49and relationships
10:50coming from Guinness
10:51and Madden
10:52and a few other
10:53institutions
10:54so they came together
10:55as John Mulholland
10:55who was a non-executive
10:56director and a chairman
10:57Harry Cassidy
10:58as the CEO
10:59and a few people
11:00they brought with
11:00at an executive level
11:01as well.
11:02So for the first few years
11:02they were successful
11:03but it was hard
11:04not to be successful
11:05if you were a stable
11:05enough business
11:06during that period of time
11:07because there was
11:07a lot of money
11:08and cash
11:08coming into the economy.
11:16The Custom House
11:17Capital Investigation
11:18was certainly
11:19one of the most
11:21complex investigations
11:22ever undertaken
11:23by the Guard
11:23of the National Economic
11:24Crime Bureau.
11:25I think ultimately
11:26100 people came forward
11:27and actually made statements
11:28and then you have to
11:30involve every aspect
11:32of their investments
11:33with that particular firm
11:34how it was handled
11:35how it was organised
11:37messaging they received
11:38from Customs House
11:40Capital and staff.
11:41A lot of victims
11:41didn't come forward
11:42but in fraud investigations
11:45in particular
11:45it's not unusual
11:46for victims
11:47to not come forward.
11:49Victims sometimes
11:50feel ashamed
11:50they're embarrassed
11:52they don't want
11:53their business known.
11:54It took 12 years
11:55from the point
11:56of when it officially
11:56stopped
11:57for people to go to jail.
11:58Why was that?
11:59because it took so long
12:01to unravel
12:01the complexity
12:02of what they did.
12:03There was so much data
12:05electronic data
12:06retrieved as part
12:07of that investigation
12:08on servers
12:09and on different computers
12:10and it required
12:11a particular data processing
12:13that was not available
12:14to GECB at that time
12:15and for that reason
12:17the case was put on hold
12:19pending the receipt
12:20of that report.
12:21It wasn't
12:22people of extreme wealth
12:24from a lot of the people
12:25we spoke to
12:26throughout the investigation
12:28they'd lost
12:29a very modest amount
12:29of money
12:30that they thought
12:31they could use
12:31for later in their life
12:33and it was the absolute stress
12:35that people were
12:36put under
12:37as a result of this.
12:44We started contributing
12:46to pension
12:46kind of in the mid-90s
12:48by 2006
12:49you know
12:50the business was going
12:51really well here
12:52and of course
12:52when you're self-employed
12:53and you have
12:54any relationship
12:55with any insurance company
12:56of any kind
12:57they're always knocking
12:57on the door
12:58and so
12:58one day
12:59they knocked on the door
13:00and said
13:01you've some cash
13:02on your pension
13:02why don't you
13:04buy a pension property
13:05because Charlie McCreevey
13:06has changed the rules
13:07you can put any assets
13:08you want into your pension
13:09why don't you do this?
13:11I did get a pension off
13:12in computer type
13:13in Marion Square
13:14Pat the boss
13:15he put me onto
13:16the pension scheme
13:17You left that job
13:18around 2,000 was it?
13:19He retired
13:20so he was shutting it down
13:21And what was in
13:22the pension pot then?
13:2449,200
13:26When I set up my own business
13:28back in the 80s
13:30it was fairly successful
13:32fairly quickly
13:33then eventually
13:35we had been introduced
13:37to the idea
13:38of setting up
13:39a personal pension
13:40and that would have led me
13:42to Canada life
13:44over a number of decades
13:46we had saved
13:47something in the order
13:49of 475,000
13:53And so Canada life
13:55who were our
13:56pension provider
13:57at the time
13:58appointed a trustee
13:59for this property
14:00that we were buying
14:00and the trustee
14:01they were appointed
14:02were Custom House Capital
14:03we never knew
14:04we never knew who they were
14:05we'd never heard
14:06of them before
14:07They start building
14:08relationships
14:08within the
14:09intermediate community
14:10the financial advice community
14:11accountancy community
14:12the Canada life's
14:13of the world
14:13and start bringing
14:14and say
14:15well if you introduce
14:15a client to this
14:16we'll pay you
14:17a commission
14:17a fee
14:18whatever it's going to be
14:19and that'll be
14:20part of the portfolio
14:21that you'll have
14:21with them
14:22but they would still
14:23be the client
14:24of the Canada life
14:25agent at the time
14:26and it would have been
14:27a product they were investing
14:28so they wouldn't have been
14:29a Custom House Capital
14:29client per se
14:31but parallel to that
14:32Custom House Capital
14:32were bringing in
14:33their own clients directly
14:35Joe came in
14:35and he told me
14:36that he had an investment
14:37that he thought
14:38I might be interested in
14:39he said this one
14:39is really good
14:40I would recommend
14:41that you join
14:42he said in fact
14:43I'm in it myself
14:44like you know what I mean
14:44he says
14:45and lots of my friends
14:47had gotten involved
14:47in the SSIAs
14:50and I was
14:51too cautious
14:52to get involved
14:53the broker
14:54he assured us
14:56that Custom House Capital
14:59were the top people
15:00and I was brought down
15:02introduced to them
15:03it was all very
15:03impressive stuff
15:04met John Mulholland
15:06in particular
15:06never met
15:07Harry Cassidy
15:09and that was it
15:10really there was
15:11nothing more to it
15:12you just
15:13signed this
15:14and we look after
15:16everything else
15:16Custom House Capital Limited
15:18is regulated by
15:19the Financial Regulator
15:19under Section 10
15:20of the Investment
15:21Intermediaries Act 1995
15:23authorised
15:24regulated
15:25central bank
15:26like why would you
15:27suspect
15:28that there was
15:29anything
15:29untoward here
15:31at all
15:37so CHC's
15:39basic fundraising
15:41model for themselves
15:42as a corporate entity
15:44was based
15:45primarily on
15:46a 5% upfront commission
15:48on any monies
15:50invested with them
15:51so if you invested
15:52100,000
15:53they would take
15:545,000 as commission
15:55that's a pretty
15:56aggressive
15:57juicy commission
15:58but it allowed
16:01CHC then
16:02offer
16:03very extravagant
16:04junkets
16:05and incentives
16:06to try to get money in
16:07and then on top of that
16:09they were getting commission
16:10and the monies
16:11invested in the property
16:12they were good
16:13at bringing clients
16:14on board
16:14they recognised this
16:16within each other
16:16they both liked to
16:18go off
16:19and play golf
16:19together
16:20and John had a place
16:21down in Mount Juliet
16:22it was the ultimate junket
16:24and it was part of the era
16:26at the time
16:27you know
16:27that you had to look
16:28after your clients
16:30there was games of golf
16:31there was dinners
16:32there was nights out
16:33there was
16:34social gatherings
16:35between
16:36John Mulholland
16:37and
16:38his wife
16:39and my mother
16:40and my father as well
16:41who obviously
16:42would listen intently
16:44to the advice
16:45that John would give
16:46and trusted him
16:47implicitly
16:48on whatever he might
16:49suggest they should do
16:50and what products
16:51they should invest
16:52into as such
16:53the customised capital
16:55prime property fund
16:56number 2
16:57has just been launched
16:58what benefits
16:59exactly does that
17:00offer to investors
17:01as with the
17:02CHC prime property fund
17:031
17:04it offers investors
17:05diversification
17:06and the same
17:07great range of benefits
17:08they love to have
17:09that image
17:10of
17:10look at us
17:11and we're successful
17:12and how did you
17:13scudging on
17:14suave
17:16loved himself
17:17loved the
17:18man about town
17:19image
17:20I remember
17:21I remember my dad
17:21saying to me
17:22that they had bought
17:22this premise
17:23on Merriand Square
17:24this big
17:25Georgian
17:25double front
17:26of premise
17:27high ceilings
17:28and antique furniture
17:29and that
17:30where was all this money
17:31obviously coming from
17:32surely the fees
17:32weren't that good
17:33to obviously
17:34create that level
17:35of investment
17:36in a business premise
17:38the high
17:38the high upfront fee
17:40couldn't have happened
17:42without the expectation
17:44of very high
17:45investment returns
17:46and they couldn't
17:47have realistically
17:48been offered
17:48at that time
17:50on anything other
17:50than property assets
17:51which had had
17:52a very long period
17:54of sustained buildups
17:56and in an environment
17:57where asset values
18:00are rising
18:01by between 15 and 20%
18:03my instinct
18:04is less to worry
18:05about the size
18:06of the 5% commission
18:07than to say
18:08hurry up
18:08and get the money
18:09committed
18:10don't leave me
18:11out of the race
18:12I think it would be
18:12safe to save
18:13between pre-retirement
18:15and post-retirement
18:16the value of the funds
18:17was definitely
18:18over a million
18:191.2
18:201.5 million
18:21but it fuels the bubble
18:23and it reinforces
18:24the bubble
18:24and it reinforces
18:25the danger of the bubble
18:26because now
18:27we've got a bunch
18:28of investors
18:28who have used
18:30borrowings
18:30to get in here
18:31and if the asset value
18:33drops
18:33the risk that they
18:35have negative equity
18:37inflicted on them
18:38suddenly rises
18:39they started sending me
18:41updates
18:42from CHC
18:44which strange enough
18:46made me feel
18:46more secure
18:47over
18:48two years
18:50the years 2006
18:512007
18:52I put in
18:54what was
18:55a high
18:56five figure sum
19:00here we are
19:01in 2025
19:03and I have never seen
19:05one cent
19:06of that money
19:17this is the first ever
19:19detailed breakdown
19:20of the Irish mortgage market
19:21and it shows a surprisingly
19:22strong level of activity
19:24if you go to a party
19:26on a Saturday night
19:27the party starts
19:28at ten o'clock
19:28at one in the morning
19:30you could justifiably
19:31wander around the party
19:33handing out
19:33alcohol awareness leaflets
19:35but nobody's going
19:36to thank you for it
19:38and if you're in
19:39bubble lift off mode
19:42people do not want
19:43to hear the warnings
19:46Germany's
19:46decentralised property market
19:48is booming
19:49through our association
19:51through our association
19:51with Berendis and partners
19:52we identified the potential
19:54of the German commercial
19:55property market
19:56over two years ago
19:57it was good marketing
19:58to say
19:59we're not going to put
20:00all of our eggs
20:01into the Irish property market
20:03basket
20:04we're going to spread them
20:05across Europe
20:06just one kilometre
20:08from Hamburg City
20:09on Heidenkampzweg
20:11our award
20:12specification office
20:14before completion
20:16a large number
20:17of renowned
20:17Colorado
20:19what type of investors
20:21are you looking for
20:21you're looking for
20:22individual investors
20:23and perhaps a range
20:25of pension funds
20:25it's open to all types
20:27of investments
20:27private clients
20:28pension funds
20:30approved retirement funds
20:31and even company monies
20:32the theory was
20:33they bought a building
20:34they used your funds
20:36as part of payment
20:38for the building
20:38they took a mortgage
20:40for the rest of it
20:41it was paid back
20:41over seven years
20:42and then technically
20:43after the seven years
20:44they sold the building
20:45and when our profit
20:46was made
20:46was distributed
20:47back through the pensions
20:48then
20:48pro-rata
20:49how many people
20:51it was ten
20:53to what value
20:56680,000
20:57when it was transferred
20:57as far as I'm aware
20:59instead of sticking
21:00with what they knew
21:01and which they had
21:03a good history with
21:04they decided
21:05you know
21:06we can
21:07I don't know
21:08conquer the world
21:09or whatever they were thinking
21:09I don't know
21:10but like
21:11setting up the fund
21:12to buy a shopping centre
21:14in Munich
21:16the pair of them
21:17and there would have been
21:18a pair of the minute
21:20whole apartment blocks
21:21in Spain
21:22wanted bigger and better
21:25statements were issued
21:27they'd come in the post
21:28once a year
21:29my dad would meet
21:29with John Mulholland
21:30it would be kind of
21:31a semi-formal review
21:33every couple of months
21:34we would get a statement
21:35for each person
21:36who was in the pension
21:37what was being projected
21:38by say John Mulholland
21:39when you were sitting
21:40in the boardroom
21:41everything is fine
21:42don't worry about it
21:43your dad's
21:44investments are secure
21:46he had lots of
21:48high profile
21:49established business people
21:51that were obviously
21:52investing in
21:52CHC products
21:53so
21:54what's good for the goose
21:55is good for the gander
21:56in some respect
21:57the jaw-dropping slide
21:59in Irish bank shares
22:00today is unprecedented
22:01for recent times
22:03it was Warren Buffett
22:05who said
22:06that
22:06it's only when the tide
22:07goes out
22:08that we get to see
22:10who's been swimming naked
22:12and the global property rise
22:15that peaked
22:162007-2008
22:19and because so many people
22:21had borrowed money
22:23to take part in this
22:24financial leverage
22:26worked against people
22:27on the way down
22:28and that turned a lot of people
22:30into negative equity positions
22:32and then whoever had lent to them
22:34had to foreclose on them
22:35the fear is
22:36the cancer has spread
22:37to the heart of European banking
22:39anybody with a bit of
22:40insert of knowledge
22:41knew the writing was on the wall
22:42and taking clients' monies in
22:44at that stage
22:44would have been
22:45you know
22:45a problem
22:47he came
22:48and had this
22:50investment proposal
22:51and that's what
22:52the Destiny 119 Property Fund
22:55was presented to us
22:56and he asked us
22:58if we were interested
22:59in using some of the cash
23:00that was still in our pension
23:01they were looking for
23:03more money
23:03than we were prepared
23:04to put in
23:05they wanted
23:0650,000 from each of us
23:07myself
23:07my husband
23:08both
23:08so we got seats
23:10from Canada Life
23:10for the 25,000
23:12that was paid into this fund
23:13so Canada Life
23:14weren't running that fund
23:15they were selling it
23:18and everybody was told
23:19something different
23:19I mean one gentleman
23:21he was told the minimum
23:22for that fund
23:23was 350,000
23:25and that's what he put into it
23:26then there was a group of people
23:28and they had a company pension
23:30and each of them
23:31individually put in money
23:32but all of them thought
23:33they were dealing
23:34with something
23:35that Canada Life itself
23:37was guaranteeing
23:38and selling
23:39other pension people
23:40who were in this game
23:41many years
23:42have told me
23:43we would never
23:44advise people of your age
23:46to move your pension
23:47at that stage
23:47you were too old
23:51starting in 08
23:52and onwards
23:52into 09
23:53or 10
23:53or 11
23:54CHC's
23:55supposed property diversification
23:58expeditions
23:58to Italy
23:59Germany
24:00France
24:00wherever
24:00they were now
24:02losing money
24:03even though
24:04Harry Cassidy
24:06wished to present
24:06to the outside world
24:08a picture
24:08everything is well
24:10and it must have been that
24:12which spurred him
24:13to take money
24:14from healthy funds
24:15to prop up
24:16unhealthy funds
24:17Customers Capital
24:19did not have the permission
24:20to move client monies
24:21into different funds
24:23or different products
24:23without their consent
24:24or instruction
24:25that's written instruction
24:27to do that
24:27is he firefighting
24:28at this time
24:29yes
24:31and spinning
24:31plates in the air
24:33and running
24:34from one plate
24:35to the other
24:35to keep it spinning
24:37he may have thought
24:38at the time
24:39that the drop
24:40in property values
24:41being experienced
24:42in 07 and 08
24:44would reverse themselves
24:46and that he was doing
24:47his investors a favour
24:50by keeping the show
24:51on the road
24:53I think there was
24:53one or two meetings
24:54I was definitely at
24:55in the boardroom
24:56in the front of the building
24:56overlooking Merriott Square
24:58we were going on
24:59what was printed
25:00on the reports
25:01and in relation
25:02to the true value
25:03that was obviously there
25:04he was effectively stealing
25:05the second problem
25:07we had was
25:07that the drop
25:09in property values
25:10continued
25:10and further exposed
25:12the financial fraud
25:14that lay at the heart
25:16of what he was doing
25:22what we have here
25:23is the original servers
25:24from Customers Capital
25:26these servers were seized
25:27by Gardaà in 2011
25:28under a court order
25:30they contained
25:31obviously a huge amount
25:31of information relevant
25:32to our investigation
25:33because of the volume of data
25:35and the multiplicity
25:36of the victims
25:37that led to a decision
25:39that we needed
25:40to look for external support
25:42using a data analysis tool
25:45that was not available
25:45to GECB at that time
25:46and so the report
25:49that we got is
25:49around 2020 or 2021
25:51it can be quite daunting
25:52at the start
25:52when you look at
25:53terabytes of information
25:54you go my god
25:55how are we going to
25:56make sense of this
25:56but you have to come up
25:58with a process
25:58as an investigation team
25:59on what we're going to do
26:01how we're going to
26:01catalogue evidence
26:02how we're going to
26:02identify evidence
26:03each individual member
26:05of the team
26:05reviewed a report
26:06and we had a meeting
26:07that went on
26:08for about three hours
26:08as we had the meeting
26:10we would look
26:10at some of the evidence
26:12that we had available
26:13some of the data
26:13Customers Capital
26:14used a system
26:16called Unity
26:17and what essentially
26:18was it was a system
26:19that was a ledger
26:20that they could keep track
26:22of where investors' money was
26:24we were also able
26:25to reconstruct
26:26the email server
26:27and we could see
26:28what people were saying
26:30to each other
26:30in around the time
26:31that this was going on
26:32the approach that was
26:33taken at the beginning
26:33is that we look at
26:35one injured party
26:36look what happened
26:36to their money
26:37and treat that one transaction
26:39as a fraud
26:40or a theft
26:41but when we actually
26:43realised that
26:44there was simply
26:45going to be
26:45too many transactions
26:46to do that
26:47in Custom House Capital
26:48it would have been
26:49thousands of transactions
26:50that's when the focus
26:51turned to the email traffic
26:53who was speaking
26:54to who
26:55and who was in charge
26:57and what role
26:58did each person play
26:59there was people involved
27:01that were doing
27:01certain things
27:02that they probably
27:02shouldn't have been
27:03but they mightn't have been
27:04aware of the greater picture
27:05but certainly the heads
27:06of CHC knew exactly
27:08what was going on
27:08and that was evident
27:09from the emails
27:10At the end of that meeting
27:11we decided
27:13that we were going
27:13to investigate it
27:14as a conspiracy
27:15among senior management
27:16rather than
27:18deceptions
27:19of 73 individuals
27:20the whole focus
27:21of the case
27:22changed thereafter
27:29So before even
27:30we talk about
27:30how money was lost
27:31the foundations
27:32were quite shaken
27:33how they were managed
27:34as well
27:34because the regulation
27:36regime in 2007
27:37when this all started
27:38to happen
27:38wasn't as strong
27:39as it is now
27:40but at that time
27:41it was like the world west
27:43In the regulators' checks
27:46in 2007
27:474 years before this
27:49blew public
27:504 million of differences
27:53between what some accounts
27:55said were in them
27:56and what was actually
27:57in them were identified
27:58It should have been
28:00absolutely glass clear
28:01to the auditors
28:01that these records
28:03are in a mess
28:05My husband's a photographer
28:07and he went to a lot
28:08of social events
28:09he photographed a lot
28:10of prize givings
28:11at various fancy golf clubs
28:13and things like that
28:14he met one of the directors
28:16who subsequently was jailed
28:18and he knew
28:19that we had cash
28:20in our pension
28:20Now Barry didn't know
28:22that we had cash
28:23in our pension
28:23but this guy
28:24knew that we had cash
28:26in our pension
28:26and then eventually
28:28we were approached
28:29by somebody acting
28:30on behalf of
28:30Custom House Capital
28:31through Canada Life
28:32They were desperate
28:34to get money in
28:35and I don't think
28:35they were able
28:36to get enough money
28:37from dealing
28:37with direct clients
28:53I suppose
28:54at the start
28:55of the investigation
28:55we have to figure out
28:57who's involved
28:58who's a suspect
28:59who's a staff member
29:00so we have to get
29:01an overall picture
29:02of the inner workings
29:04of Custom House Capital
29:05but we could tell
29:06from the outset
29:07that the main people
29:08involved appeared
29:10to be Harry Cassidy
29:11John White
29:12John Mulholland
29:13and Paul Lavery
29:14also held a key role
29:16as the financial controller
29:17within the company
29:18When we look
29:19at the actual scheme
29:20of what was going on
29:21it was essentially
29:22where clients
29:23would be given
29:24valuation reports
29:25The Destiny Equity Fund
29:26had 32 million
29:28in it at one stage
29:29What these valuation reports
29:30would say to the client
29:31is that
29:32this is how your money
29:33is performing
29:34this is where your funds are
29:35When CHC started to chase
29:37they started cashing
29:39the equity fund
29:40without the client's
29:41consent or knowledge
29:42moving this cash
29:43across here
29:44Every couple of months
29:45we would get a statement
29:46for each person
29:47who was in the pension
29:48I was getting an update
29:49from Canada Life
29:51which is the most
29:52peculiar thing
29:53So this Velovus bond here
29:54was moved out
29:55into what's called
29:56a special purpose vehicle
29:57an SPV
29:58and this could have been
30:00for a property
30:01in Germany
30:01Their funds had to be removed
30:04from what we could see
30:06were property funds
30:07in Europe
30:08The funds were then
30:09placed in the correct place
30:11where the investor
30:12thought they should have been
30:13and once they had done that
30:14they would run
30:15the valuation report
30:16Paul Lavery
30:18would calculate
30:19fictitious interest
30:20which would also be included
30:22on the valuation report
30:23that went to the investor
30:24So the investor
30:25would get their valuation report
30:26and be happy and confident
30:28that my money's performing well
30:30then falsified assets
30:32because none of the money
30:33is where it should have been
30:34in cash or in equities
30:35And the investor
30:37would obviously have
30:37absolutely no knowledge
30:38of this whatsoever
30:47There's so many people
30:48involved in the company
30:49how do you hide
30:50something on this level
30:52how do you hide it
30:53and what we believe
30:54is that the pop-up system
30:56on the internal CHC computer
30:59was the way
31:00the fraud was concealed
31:01So I'm just looking
31:03at one particular note here
31:04When you type
31:05the client's name in
31:06it will say
31:07please contact
31:08Harry or Paul
31:09before issuing
31:10any valuations
31:11That raises our suspicion
31:13of surely
31:14you know
31:15if an investor
31:15called CHC
31:17they can be advised
31:18of their account status
31:20without having to go
31:21to the head of the company
31:22There's a note on it
31:24Client should not be
31:25in Quiff 2 investment
31:26These need to be backed out
31:28to run evaluation
31:30as per PL
31:31which we believe
31:32is Paul Lavery
31:32and he will calculate
31:34what interest is due
31:35As we were going
31:36through the email traffic
31:37we can see
31:39a reoccurring
31:40phrases
31:41for want of a better word
31:42and one of them
31:43was the term
31:43needs to be backed out
31:45So we could search
31:46that term
31:47on the email servers
31:48looking for backed out
31:49and what we did discover
31:51was it was instructions
31:52being given
31:53to back clients out
31:54so they could run reports
31:55to deceive the clients
31:56and once that was done
31:57the money was returned
31:58But there was another
31:59example of an email
32:01Can you do your magic
32:02on this account
32:03as the client is showing
32:04an investment in property
32:06Client is showing
32:07an investment in property
32:08Well why should a client
32:09be showing an investment
32:10in property
32:10unless he's actually
32:11invested in property
32:12So I think that
32:14kind of one email alone
32:15kind of nearly set the tone
32:16of what was actually
32:17going on at the time
32:18and the scale
32:18of what was going on
32:19at the time
32:27In 2009
32:28the Central Bank
32:29sent an inspector
32:29into CHC
32:30and they also
32:32restricted CHC
32:34from taking on
32:34new investment monies
32:36In the investment world
32:38that's the equivalent
32:38of a yellow card
32:39Now at that point in time
32:40with one point
32:421 billion of assets
32:43under management
32:44with 320 properties
32:46with 40 funds
32:47It was a complicated
32:49labyrinth of a business
32:50already
32:50but only 20%
32:51of that business
32:52was actually
32:52the regulated side
32:53So the Central Bank
32:54had no idea
32:55what was going on
32:56the unregulated side
32:57and there's paper trails
32:58saying that's not our problem
33:02And then they found
33:04that monies had been taken
33:07from Fund A
33:07to prop up Fund B
33:09So their solution
33:10was to try and sell
33:11that part of the business
33:12customer's capital
33:12the regulated entity
33:13to Appian Asset Management
33:15at one stage
33:15That was a terrible solution
33:17Appian Asset Management
33:18in good faith
33:19took the leap
33:19and did that
33:20in 2009-2010
33:22Definitely around the time
33:23that Appian
33:23were looking at
33:24buying into CHC
33:26I think John probably spoke
33:28to my dad
33:28in relation to
33:29or looking to
33:30sell the business on
33:31or there's going to be
33:32a change in ownership on it
33:33It took one of the staff members
33:35to actually just raise their hands
33:36and say
33:36there's an issue here
33:37So was that something?
33:38Yeah, it was
33:41Angela Mahan
33:42she took up a position
33:44in Customers Capital
33:45in 2007
33:46and she was promoted
33:47in 2008
33:49to Head of Finance
33:50and Operations
33:50so she was at
33:51a more senior level
33:52and she attended a meeting
33:54where there was a discussion
33:55on a shortfall
33:57in an investment
33:58in property in Germany
34:00something around
34:0111 million
34:01She realised that
34:03they didn't have the money
34:04to meet that shortfall
34:05and she learnt that
34:06money was being taken
34:07from clients' accounts
34:09She said that was wrong
34:11and she contested that
34:11with the senior managers
34:12Basically she was overruled
34:14by the senior management team
34:15and she decided
34:17that she couldn't
34:18put up with this
34:19and she resigned her position
34:21She was asked by two
34:22of the senior managers
34:23not to resign
34:24One actually said
34:26you're only a young person
34:27you have to realise
34:28there's a commercial reality
34:30sometimes
34:31and when that commercial reality
34:33is there
34:33integrity goes out the window
34:34She left in late 2008
34:37and in 2009
34:38she actually had to
34:39contact CAC
34:41to get her P45
34:42and in that conversation
34:43with the senior manager
34:44she asked
34:45had the situation
34:47been resolved
34:48and it had not
34:49and at that point
34:50she made a disclosure
34:51to the financial regulator
34:53and then she cooperated
34:55fully with the
34:56guard investigation
34:56in terms of
34:57as a witness
35:00I was in a car
35:01and I started reading it
35:03it possibly mentioned
35:04liquidation
35:04and I just messaged
35:06Harry immediately
35:08just
35:09what the fuck
35:11and he came back
35:12to all blown out of proportion
35:14nothing to be worried about
35:15whatsoever
35:18and we now know
35:19of course
35:19that was
35:19the top
35:20of the slope
35:29Custom House Capital
35:31were one of the companies
35:32that were registered
35:33by the pensions board
35:35and I invested
35:37my life savings
35:38which goes back
35:39nearly 40 years
35:40of contributions
35:41for my pension
35:42My mum is elderly
35:44when she was in her 80s
35:45she decided
35:46it might be a good idea
35:47to sell her house
35:48my dad had died
35:49some years before
35:50Say that, Prash
35:51John, good afternoon
35:52How's the phone go?
35:53Are you a victim
35:54of Custom House Capital?
35:56Absolutely
35:56but it was a huge scam
35:59from day one
35:59because the financial staples
36:01we used to get
36:01every six months
36:02were falsified
36:04the shareholders
36:05people who ran the firm
36:06were very, you know
36:06well known
36:07they were recognised
36:08in the industry
36:09you know
36:09John Mulholland
36:09John Weiss
36:10Harry Catsby
36:11Custom House Capital
36:12got over 1 billion
36:13from investors
36:14It's more white collar
36:15crime in this country
36:16The first anybody
36:17really knew
36:18of this was in July
36:19and at that point
36:20there was a freeze
36:20and you could not
36:21take your money out
36:22the ship had sunk
36:23at that point
36:24I was due to retire
36:25about the end of December
36:27after that
36:28I would have no funds
36:29whatsoever
36:29There's people who had
36:31every penny that they own
36:33in terms of what
36:33they provided
36:34for their old age
36:35in that fund
36:36and it's gone
36:37What about you Patrick?
36:38Have you told your friends?
36:39No I haven't
36:40Why not?
36:41It would be very embarrassing
36:43Well I wouldn't be embarrassed
36:44about it
36:45Patrick
36:45You say you stand
36:46to lose your house
36:47at the end of the month
36:48Well I could
36:49I mean we're sending people
36:50to jail
36:50for not taking
36:51TV fees
36:52and all these people
36:53are walking
36:54about scot-free
36:54after throwing away millions
36:56on people
36:57at their pensions
36:58their life scheme
36:59you're going to lose
36:59your house
37:00out in the street
37:01your bare feet
37:02scandals
37:03the country
37:03is so corrupt
37:04What's the first inkling
37:06or how did you find out?
37:08Joe Duffy
37:09I was sitting listening
37:10to Joe Duffy
37:11Once I'd established
37:13it was my investment
37:14I kind of
37:14knocked off Joe Duffy
37:16and said I got on the phone
37:17and basically
37:18he just told me
37:19there's no money
37:20in this field
37:21you will get nothing back
37:22and he was quite blunt
37:24about it
37:25when did you first hear
37:26of it or something?
37:27Well shortly after
37:28John White
37:28told my aunt
37:29he'd send her a cheque
37:30there was no indication
37:32right up to that minute
37:33but Christ
37:34of all the people
37:35I know in life
37:35how hard
37:36this money was earned
37:37every day
37:38grinding away
37:39getting up
37:39at all hours
37:40in the morning
37:40and to lose it all
37:41just like that
37:42The regulators
37:43writing letters
37:44to Custom House
37:45capital
37:45long before we ever
37:46transferred our pensions
37:47to them
37:47had we known that
37:48we would have never done it
37:50but we didn't know
37:51There were so many people
37:52who didn't do their job
37:53properly
37:53coming back to Central Bank
37:54and not actually
37:55managing the business
37:56and the pensions authority
37:57did all these people
37:59fail at what they did
38:00there was an environment
38:01there that allowed
38:02these people
38:02to do the things
38:03they were going to do
38:09So there was a number
38:10of arrests
38:11carried out
38:12as part of the investigation
38:13Harry Cassidy
38:14Paul Lavery
38:15and John White
38:16were arrested
38:17in 2012 initially
38:19but again
38:20there was a second round
38:21of arrests
38:21conducted in 2019
38:23and that was obviously
38:24done at a time
38:24when the investigation team
38:26had built up
38:27a lot more knowledge
38:28of what actually went on
38:29The Dublin District Court
38:30heard that the three men
38:31were all arrested
38:32in Dublin earlier today
38:33by the Garda National
38:35Economic Crime Bureau
38:36John Mulholland
38:37was arrested in 2019
38:38Paul Lavery was arrested again
38:40in 2019
38:41John White was also arrested
38:43again in 2019
38:44We had sought to arrest
38:46Harry Cassidy again
38:47in 2019
38:48but he wouldn't present
38:50to Garda
38:51voluntarily
38:52to be arrested
38:55Where was he?
38:56He was in Germany
38:57at the time
38:57And what was he doing there?
38:59I believe
39:00possibly
39:01he was teaching
39:02English as a foreign language
39:03The court heard
39:04John Mulholland
39:05John White
39:06and Paul Lavery
39:07made no reply
39:08when charged
39:08He was ultimately
39:09arrested by the German police
39:11I believe he spent
39:12approximately about
39:12three months
39:13in custody in Germany
39:14but in the end
39:15he decided to
39:17return back
39:18to this jurisdiction
39:19where he was met
39:19and ultimately charged
39:26After it all collapsed
39:28with Custom House Capital
39:29and the liquidators
39:30moved in
39:31I used to receive
39:32a letter every year
39:33The balance
39:36was zero
39:37I don't know the story
39:39of how these properties
39:40ended up being sold
39:40the way they were
39:41for as little as they were
39:42The buildings are still there
39:44The rent is still there
39:46So therefore
39:47there's no reason
39:49why there should be
39:49a problem
39:49in any of these things
39:50But of course
39:51with the times
39:52that were in it
39:53they become a fire sale
39:54Yeah we got
39:55550 euros each back
39:58That's it
39:59And for the regulated side
40:01where people had money
40:02in regulated investments
40:03there's a thing called
40:04the Investor Compensation Fund
40:05The maximum
40:06that the Investor Compensation Fund
40:08can pay out
40:09is 20,000 per investor
40:11and people may have had
40:14savings from
40:15an entire lifetime
40:17that had to look after them
40:18in their old age
40:19parked in CHC
40:22and to have that
40:23so sharply reduced
40:24probably would unleash
40:27medical symptoms
40:29in some of them
40:31Her health was failing
40:33She'd been in hospital
40:34several times
40:35Now
40:37my fear was
40:37we'd get the phone call
40:38to say
40:38she's fallen
40:39and that then
40:40I would get calls
40:41to say
40:42we need money
40:43to pay for her nursing home
40:45Now God forbid
40:45had she ever rung me
40:47and said
40:47Nick
40:48get on to Harry
40:49and tell him
40:49I need 10 grand
40:50or 20 grand
40:52I would have had to say
40:53to her
40:53Helga
40:54there is no 10 or 20 grand
40:56Now how could you say that
40:57to somebody
40:57who built her
40:59this was her life
41:00the fear that the phone
41:02would ring
41:02because she was very unwell
41:03She was finally brought
41:05into hospital during COVID
41:06and she died there alone
41:07only the hospital staff
41:08We rang
41:09but they said
41:09there's no point in coming over
41:10and that's what frightened me
41:12most in the last year
41:13and thankfully
41:14I didn't have to tell her
41:15I think it came to a stage
41:16where he wouldn't even
41:17talk about it anymore
41:18because he knew
41:19there was not much
41:21he could actually do about it
41:22his health was failing
41:23he'd lost his wife
41:24he was spending
41:25three days a week
41:26in hospital
41:27having dialysis
41:27so his life
41:28had become quite insular
41:30and with that then
41:31I suppose
41:31everything began
41:33to just cave in
41:34on top of him
41:34I got a letter first
41:36and I got invited
41:37to a meeting
41:38in town
41:39there were people there
41:40and they were
41:40seriously aggrieved
41:41I think there was one guy
41:43had something like
41:4450,000
41:45and he was furious
41:46and I'm sitting there
41:47with the cold realisation
41:49that nearly 400 grand
41:50on my part
41:52had been put
41:53by this broker
41:54into customised capital
41:56on one bet
42:01Did you have to explain
42:02to your employees
42:03what happened?
42:03Yes
42:04which was a very awkward
42:05conversation
42:06and I had to explain
42:07to them
42:09as they were coming up
42:09to retirement
42:10that their pensions
42:11were gone
42:12and in my opinion
42:13they would never see
42:14any of them
42:18at the end of the day
42:19the book stopped with me
42:20I made the decision
42:21it was my decision
42:22as the trustee of the company
42:24it was the wrong decision
42:26it was my decision
42:27and I had to own it
42:35I was assigned
42:36to cover the sentence hearing
42:38of the four men
42:39so the presiding judge
42:41Judge Orla Crowe
42:42she was sitting that day
42:43in courtroom 12
42:44I remember going up
42:45in the lift
42:46and walking in
42:48and it was just
42:49so busy
42:50there were so many people
42:52in that courtroom
42:53it was a very sad day
42:55to be honest
42:56because there were widows
42:57where the husband
42:59had died since
43:00but all their money
43:01had gone into
43:02a pension fund
43:04through Custom House Capital
43:05and lost everything
43:07it seemed to take an eternity
43:09to get from the back
43:10of the court
43:10up to the box
43:12and then to have the accused
43:14sitting right in front of you
43:17but the judge
43:19I thought handled it very well
43:21and of course
43:22the newspapers
43:23were all over it
43:25so there were 197
43:27victim impact statements
43:28handed in to the court
43:29and four of them
43:31were read out
43:31by affected investors
43:33in Custom House Capital
43:35or by family members
43:37of those investors
43:38who had passed away
43:40I saw a woman cry
43:41she said
43:42I put my pension fund in
43:44and she said
43:45it means I'd have to go back
43:46to work at 65
43:47she was crying
43:48but nobody put their arms
43:49around her and said
43:51it'd be alright
43:53it is only now
43:54how they approach
43:55retirement age
43:56that the full impact
43:57of this theft
43:58is starting to manifest
43:59itself
44:00in the past
44:01I pushed it to the back
44:02of my mind
44:03but for the last few years
44:04I cannot shake it off
44:06it causes me many
44:07sleepless nights nowadays
44:08and I constantly worry
44:10about my financial future
44:11with the world the way it is
44:13now I have two adult children
44:15still living at home
44:16and I maybe could have
44:17helped them with a deposit
44:19and a house
44:19if this money had not been stolen
44:22I've lived my entire life
44:23in South Inner City Dublin
44:25and in a broader sense
44:26this crime has also
44:28compounded my belief
44:29that there is a dem in us
44:30in Irish society
44:32which robbed me
44:33and my family
44:34of a more secure retirement
44:37having worked continuously
44:38for the last 45 years
44:40and never relying on the state
44:41for a single cent
44:42I don't think that this was
44:44too much to aspire to
44:52now there were four
44:54guys being sentenced
44:55they all had their own
44:56legal counsel
44:58separately
44:59each of them stood up
45:00and advocated for why
45:01their guy shouldn't go to prison
45:02you know it was all like
45:04cats in a sack
45:05just all fighting
45:06trying to be the one
45:07who doesn't go to prison
45:08or doesn't get the worst sentence
45:10and the way they were
45:11talking about these guys
45:13it was like they were
45:14paragons of virtue
45:15I turned around to Barry
45:17and said I'm going to start
45:17feeling sorry for them soon
45:19if they keep on going on
45:20like this
45:20I said are these guys
45:21talking about these men
45:23who have defrauded
45:24all of these people
45:25so Harry Cassidy and John
45:27Monholland took 2.3 million
45:28out discreetly out of company
45:30in commissions
45:31directly to a Luxembourg
45:33bank account
45:34and a Tenerife property
45:35was bought for John Monholland
45:37so they were profiting
45:38during this period of time
45:39from 2007 to 2011
45:40personally as well as
45:42drawing out salaries
45:4260 years of his life working
45:45putting away money
45:46to support himself
45:47in the lot of years
45:48of his life
45:49that he was going to be
45:50able to enjoy
45:50then to see it all
45:51majority of it all
45:52wiped away
45:53was really frustrating for him
45:54and one of them
45:55was trying to say
45:56that he was so much younger
45:57and all this kind of stuff
45:58and I was a bit led
45:59and all that
46:00and the judge was like
46:01you're an adult
46:02take responsibility
46:04the judge noticed
46:05in her sentencing remarks
46:06that the men
46:07threw their guilty pleas
46:08that meant that the state
46:10was saved
46:11a very long
46:12and complex trial
46:13the judge said
46:1467 year old
46:15Harry Cassidy
46:16the co-founder
46:16and chief executive officer
46:18of CHC
46:19was in charge
46:20of the entire conspiracy
46:21and breached
46:22all trust placed in him
46:23she sentenced him
46:24to seven years in jail
46:2553 year old
46:27John White
46:27the head of private clients
46:29was given four years
46:30Paul Lavery
46:31who was 47
46:32was head of finance
46:33and carried out directions
46:34he knew were wrong
46:35the judge said
46:36jailing him
46:37for three years
46:3773 year old
46:39John Mulholland
46:40a co-founder
46:40and non-executive director
46:42pleaded guilty
46:43to neglectfully
46:44discharging his duties
46:45as a director
46:46and was jailed
46:47for 12 months
46:48Judge Crowe
46:49said many of the victims
46:50felt shame
46:51but that was misplaced
46:52she said
46:53they had been
46:53systematically deceived
46:55in a sophisticated operation
46:56which went on
46:57for almost three years
47:20the most dramatic part of it
47:23looking back
47:24now
47:25was when the guards
47:26came in
47:27to take them away
47:28to the cell
47:29a lesson there
47:30to the professions
47:32that there is a price
47:33to be paid
47:35if they misappropriate
47:37people's funds
47:38I'm very happy that
47:40even when he does come out
47:41he will still be
47:42a convicted felon
47:44he's a criminal
47:46and he will have done time
47:56thankfully we still have our health
47:58and we have a vibrant family
48:01my wife still works
48:03but I turned 74 this month
48:05it's difficult
48:06because we're reliant
48:07on the state pension
48:09and then a few bits and pieces
48:12I suppose I took
48:14I suppose I took
48:14and I still take
48:15a philosophical approach
48:17to it all
48:17there's no point in me
48:18getting angry about it
48:20I heard of people
48:21who borrowed money
48:22to put into that scheme
48:24and they're the people
48:25I really feel sorry for
48:27you just move on
48:29I think Irish people are
48:31they don't like talking about
48:33misgivings
48:33or they don't like talking about
48:35being taken for a fool
48:36or being taken for granted
48:37so there'll be a lot of people
48:38I think that will just
48:39take us to their grave
48:40and we brought our ashes
48:41up to kill Nadima
48:42and she's buried beside her husband
48:44with my godmother
48:49lately I've been starting to realise
48:51not that it went bad
48:52it was criminal
48:54it was an offence
48:55people have gone to jail for it
48:57years after the collapse
48:58and the whole lot
48:59we actually worked in the building
49:01that they operated from
49:03at Marion Square
49:04and I walked up to the door
49:05there's Gustav Moist Capital
49:06looking at me
49:07they never took the plaque
49:08off the building at that stage
49:09I think it's sad
49:10that anybody would think
49:11that they had done something wrong
49:13you're supposed to
49:14work hard
49:16and you earn a few bob
49:17and you set a few bob aside
49:18and you invest it somewhere
49:20so that it's going to grow
49:21you will be able to provide
49:22for yourself
49:23and you won't be depending
49:24on the stage
49:24and you won't be depending
49:25on your kids
49:26and you'll be able to afford
49:26all the things
49:27that you still need to do
49:28when you're
49:30you know
49:30retired
49:32that's what we're supposed
49:32to be able to look forward to
49:33in this green and pleasant land
49:35music
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