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00:08This was a cold and calculated murder.
00:16There's always a breaking point in an investigation.
00:24The timeline of events didn't add up.
00:32It was crucial we supported our family contact.
00:45It was a violent, racist attack.
00:53It was something that I found heartbreaking,
00:57the way the Lawrence family were treated.
01:02I didn't have any confidence in the police at that time.
01:05I felt that it was just a show.
01:09It was quite intense.
01:11I felt awful because there's nothing any of us can do
01:15to lessen that pain.
01:20So they started by defining what is an FLO,
01:23what do we want FLOs to do?
01:25They're the communication between the families and the SIO.
01:39I first met Neville Lawrence in November 2000, Mr. Lawrence in those days, now Dr. Lawrence.
01:45And he had a son, Stephen.
01:51Stephen was murdered in 1993.
01:54It was a random, racist attack, something that was horrific.
02:00My name is Fiona Wright, and I was a police family liaison officer,
02:04often referred to as FLO with the Metropolitan Police.
02:10There was a, I'm going to say, I'm going to say botched inquiry,
02:13the original inquiry into that.
02:19The private prosecution was before I was ever involved in the case.
02:22Later on, in the autumn of 2000,
02:27I was Dr. Lawrence's family liaison officer.
02:30Being part of the Stephen Lawrence murder investigation,
02:36I think the Stephen Lawrence case was a turning point in the role of FLO.
02:39They realized that families needed more.
02:54My name's John Grave.
02:57I was a deputy assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police
03:02and a Scotland Yard detective.
03:06On the 22nd of April, 1993,
03:12Stephen was out for the evening with his friend, Dwayne Brooks,
03:16and they were catching a series of buses back home.
03:25There were an awful lot of racial tensions in and around where Stephen lived.
03:33There had been quite a few incidents and there had been previous attacks.
03:43My name is Clive Driscoll.
03:45I retired from the Metropolitan Police Service in May 2012.
03:52The gang appeared whilst Stephen and Dwayne were waiting at the bus stop.
04:02The gang were on the other side of the road
04:05and shouted some racist abuse at them and then attacked them.
04:17It was a violent, racist attack.
04:25Stephen was stabbed multiple times.
04:33He fell to the floor,
04:34but because of the injuries he'd sustained in the attack,
04:38the amount of blood that he lost eventually took his life.
04:44Dwayne went to his assistance.
04:47Various members of the public came to their assistance.
04:51The police were sent for the work.
04:54In fact, people nearby who knew Stephen's family
04:59and went and told Neville Lawrence.
05:09We got dinner, myself, the two kids, Stephen and his mother, Doreen.
05:15Stephen didn't turn up.
05:17I was wondering why Stephen didn't come home.
05:24My name is Neville Lawrence, Dr. Neville Lawrence.
05:28I'm the father of Stephen Lawrence.
05:30My son was murdered in a racially motivated attack.
05:36When we were sitting down watching the 10 o'clock news,
05:39the door knocked.
05:40And I'm saying to Doreen,
05:41well, why was he knocking?
05:43You know, he's got his own key.
05:44When I opened the door,
05:46it was Joey Shepard and his father.
05:49Joey Shepard was telling me that Stephen,
05:52he saw Stephen being attacked
05:53by a group of boys down the road.
05:56When we got to the hospital,
05:57a nurse and a doctor came up.
06:01They said to us,
06:02they have got Stephen and they're looking after him.
06:05So we'd have to go and sit in the waiting room.
06:11We sat there for quite a while.
06:14Doreen was standing up beside the police officer.
06:19We then saw the two people that we saw earlier,
06:22the doctors and the nurse coming up.
06:25They came and they told us that Stephen had died.
06:29I remember seeing Doreen fall into the floor
06:33and started crying.
06:39I got up the following morning
06:41and I still can't understand
06:43how quickly the news spread all over the place
06:45that even people from Birmingham, Bristol,
06:49and all those other friends that I had,
06:52you know, the families from all over the place
06:54would come and kind of show their support.
06:56And these people were coming to the house
06:58with drinks, food, all kinds of things.
07:02You know, the only time we ever had any inkling
07:06of anybody going to talk to us
07:08with anybody from the police force.
07:10I think we were told that two officers
07:15were going to come to the house on the Friday.
07:19The family liaison officers who were appointed
07:23to liaise with Stephen's parents
07:27were not trained in any specialist way.
07:39So I was expecting these two officers
07:42would be coming to the house
07:44to explain to us what happened to our son that night.
07:47And I was told by these two officers
07:50that they couldn't tell us anything.
07:52These officers came to the house
07:55and start writing down the names of these people
07:58who had come from Burningham,
08:00wherever they came from,
08:02to show support to the family.
08:06I was surprised.
08:07I said to them,
08:08stop writing down these people's names.
08:10They had nothing to do with the murders.
08:12You don't stop writing their name out.
08:14You'll have to leave.
08:16And they stopped.
08:18But the following day,
08:21they came back to the house
08:23and we hadn't been able to see Stephen's body properly.
08:27I then asked these two officers
08:30if there was any possibility
08:33for them to arrange for us to go and see,
08:35look at Stephen's body properly.
08:38And they said they couldn't do it.
08:40So the Sunday,
08:42these two officers came back to the house
08:44and the first thing that woman said to me
08:47that if Stephen had a woolen gloves
08:49and a woolen hat,
08:51and the question I did ask her was,
08:54why are you asking me about
08:57a woolen hat and a woolen gloves?
08:59What are you saying to me
09:01in a roundabout way?
09:03Are you saying that my son was a cat burglar?
09:06I'm going to call the station
09:07and tell them not to send you back here.
09:09And so that's what I did.
09:19What the family have said to me many times
09:21was that they felt
09:23they were being investigated.
09:25They felt Stephen was being investigated
09:28and we weren't looking for the suspects.
09:32The way the various strands of intelligence
09:37that were available about the violent racist gang
09:42that had committed the crime
09:43were recorded or not actioned.
09:48Stephen's death was not treated
09:51in the same way as a murder, say,
09:56of a white youth.
09:58And thus, the allegation of racism
10:03by the police began to emerge.
10:15This was a gang that, you know,
10:18called themselves the Crays
10:19and were violent and did pick on folk.
10:24They were actually quite well known in the area.
10:27They became suspects quickly
10:30because one, a male,
10:32walked into the police station
10:33and told us they were suspects.
10:36There was a letter left in a phone box
10:39and on a police car, you know,
10:41and so people were trying to tell the police.
10:46It would be right to say
10:47that the names of Mr. Gary Dobson,
10:51Mr. Luke Knight,
10:52Mr. Neil Acourt,
10:53Mr. Jamie Acourt
10:54and Mr. David Norris
10:56came into the investigation quickly.
11:00So they were known to police.
11:02They were well known for random acts of violence.
11:06Everywhere in the country now,
11:08you have dedicated police teams.
11:10But that wasn't how it was in 1993.
11:13You had this superintendent
11:15and then they started calling in officers
11:18from here and there and everywhere.
11:20And that's how it was.
11:21That's how it was in the day.
11:22So there's always this slippage.
11:25The gaps that that created
11:27didn't help a smooth,
11:30efficient, professional investigation.
11:40I think the initial investigation
11:42in 1993 really focused on
11:45much the same suspects,
11:46if I was honest.
11:47But they accumulated evidence
11:50on three of them,
11:52Mr. Neil Acourt,
11:53Mr. Gary Dobson,
11:54which was relevant in my investigation,
11:56and Mr. Luke Knight.
11:59It wasn't until the 7th of May
12:01that in fact the arrests
12:03and searches took place.
12:06And this is a violent group of people.
12:09They were actually charged
12:11to the lads.
12:13They were juveniles,
12:14which has a slightly different aspect
12:17to police work.
12:25What we all have to accept and admit
12:27is that at that stage
12:29when this case was discontinued,
12:32that both Baroness Lawrence,
12:34Dorie Lawrence,
12:35as she was back there,
12:36and Neville Lawrence,
12:37Dr. Lawrence,
12:37as she is now,
12:38they felt the Metropolitan Police Service
12:40hadn't done
12:41a professional job
12:42around the murder
12:43of their son,
12:45young Stephen.
12:50I think if you can put your feelings
12:53towards the parents,
12:55you know,
12:55they were very proud
12:57to be here.
12:58And, you know,
12:59Neville Lawrence once said to me
13:00that when he was in Jamaica,
13:02he was told
13:02that the Metropolitan Police Service
13:04was by far the best service
13:05in the world.
13:08I saw England
13:09for the first time
13:10in 1962.
13:14After being in this country
13:15for a few years,
13:17I started working
13:18in the rag trade.
13:20And so that's how
13:21I met with Dorian
13:23from going to our mother's house
13:25every day and sewing.
13:28We got married.
13:31Stephen's the first child.
13:32He was born
13:33on the 13th of September,
13:361974.
13:37Stephen was
13:38a very affectionate child.
13:42When Stephen got
13:43to the stage
13:44where he was choosing
13:45what he wanted to do,
13:47he said he wanted
13:48to be an architect.
13:49And I was so pleased
13:50to see that
13:51the ambition,
13:53he had this friend
13:54called Helvin.
13:56They used to do a lot
13:57of design T-shirts
13:58and print them.
14:00One of the pictures
14:01of Stephen
14:02with a shirt on
14:04is one of the shirts
14:05that Stephen
14:05designed himself.
14:13So all those
14:14are the things
14:15that happened that night.
14:17The police,
14:18they weren't telling us
14:20anything
14:20of how
14:21the murder happened
14:23or why the murder happened
14:25and who was at the scene
14:27the night.
14:28The persons of interest
14:30who'd been identified
14:31from a variety
14:33of sources
14:35have been named
14:37extensively
14:38in the media.
14:48We were in touch
14:49with some people
14:50from Greenwich
14:52and one of the women
14:54was a counselor
14:56so we called her,
14:58explained to her
14:58that these officers
14:59weren't able to allow us
15:01to go and see
15:02Stephen's body.
15:04And she arranged it
15:05for us to go and see Stephen's body
15:07I think the following day.
15:13The news of Stephen's murder
15:16had got spread
15:18all over the place
15:19and we started doing things
15:21with the TV station
15:22and things
15:23and one morning
15:25we went to the BBC
15:26to do a program
15:27and Nelson Mandela
15:30had made a request
15:32to meet with the family.
15:34The room was packed
15:36with reporters
15:37from people
15:38and TV
15:39and I couldn't believe
15:40that I was going to be
15:41sitting there
15:42and to meet
15:43the actual person.
15:55The day of Stephen's funeral
15:58I think they had to
15:59close the road off
16:00quite a few hundred
16:01was there.
16:02Quite a few
16:03well-known organization
16:05and TV station
16:06was there.
16:07It was massive.
16:09I was really angry
16:11that these boys
16:13that killed my son
16:14didn't know
16:15what kind of person
16:16he was.
16:17My son would never
16:19hurt a fly
16:20if he didn't have
16:21a chance to do that
16:23and he would never
16:24go out on the street
16:26to look to harm anybody.
16:28We felt that
16:29we don't want anybody
16:31to vandalize
16:32Stephen's grave.
16:33We made the decision
16:34to put Stephen
16:37to lay to rest
16:38in Jamaica.
16:41When we actually
16:42buried Stephen
16:43that morning
16:44the High Commissioner
16:46and his family
16:46was there
16:47when Stephen
16:48was being laid
16:49I didn't think
16:50that I'd be
16:51watching Stephen's
16:53body being laid
16:54into something
16:56like a grave.
16:57I thought he would
16:58be watching me
16:59and going
16:59into something
17:00like that.
17:08The police
17:09arrested
17:10and charged
17:12some of the suspects
17:14and the Crown
17:15Prosecution Service
17:16decided
17:18that there was
17:19insufficient evidence
17:20to proceed
17:22against them.
17:22Well they told us
17:24the worst news
17:24is that they had
17:25dropped the charges
17:26against these guys
17:27because they haven't
17:28got enough
17:29to try them.
17:32I know some people
17:33get slightly offended
17:35about this
17:36but the police service
17:38have always had informants
17:40and I think
17:41they always will.
17:42There were people
17:43that were coming forward
17:44and giving us
17:46information
17:47and naming
17:48the suspect.
17:50We did have evidence
17:51from an informant
17:52and therefore
17:54I could never confirm
17:55or deny
17:56the involvement.
17:57That's the rules
17:58of informants really.
18:00So you had interviews
18:02which were denials.
18:04Bear in mind
18:05back then
18:06there was no
18:07forensic evidence
18:08at all.
18:09So you were relying
18:11on information
18:13that were given
18:13to the police
18:14but no eyewitness account
18:17other than
18:17Stephen's friend
18:19Mr Dwayne Brooks.
18:21During that attack
18:22there were two stab wounds.
18:25Dwayne said run
18:26Stephen
18:26and they run up the road
18:27and the amount of blood
18:29that he lost
18:30cost him his life
18:31and then the suspects
18:34run off down
18:34Dixon Road
18:35and we know
18:36they disappeared
18:38one way or the other.
18:40There was a
18:42I think a conflict
18:43of evidence
18:44around the
18:46identification
18:47which involved
18:48the detective sergeant
18:50and Mr Brooks.
18:51Now I know
18:52Mr Brooks
18:52feels that
18:53sometimes
18:53everyone's blaming him
18:55for
18:56well he did
18:57what he could do.
18:58He said
18:59this is who I believe
19:00I saw
19:01but as soon as
19:03that evidence
19:03was
19:06undermined
19:06you know
19:08a suggestion
19:08maybe isn't
19:09as sound
19:10as we thought
19:10that would be
19:12a very difficult
19:12moment for the CPS
19:14to pursue
19:15a case
19:16with confidence.
19:19If you've got doubt
19:21well that
19:22that is enough
19:22and I think
19:23you've got a
19:24detective sergeant
19:25saying one thing
19:26you've got Mr Brooks
19:27saying another thing
19:28and that led
19:29the Crown Prosecution Service
19:30to make the decision
19:32of an insufficient
19:33amount of evidence.
19:34so that's why
19:35we actually did
19:37the private prosecution
19:38we weren't left
19:40any choice.
19:42When Michael Mansfield
19:44came
19:44and offered his
19:45support
19:46to the family
19:47we jumped
19:48at the chance
19:49to have somebody
19:50with that experience
19:51and know how
19:52to be helping us
19:54to try and get
19:54these people
19:56who murdered my son
19:57sent to prison.
20:00They started
20:01a private prosecution
20:02and that isn't
20:04common in the
20:05United Kingdom
20:06certainly not for murder.
20:08I haven't been able
20:09to find too many
20:10examples of
20:11private prosecutions
20:12where basically
20:13what you're saying
20:14is you've taken
20:15over the wrong
20:15of the police
20:17by the Crown
20:18Prosecution Service.
20:19Mr Michael Mansfield
20:21and Mr Imran Khan
20:23they did this pro bono
20:24so you know
20:26they didn't charge
20:27then it could cost you
20:29up to millions of pounds
20:30because that's what
20:31court cases cost.
20:32So what actually
20:34happened was
20:35that they started
20:37looking at
20:37what the initial
20:39investigation had done
20:41where were the
20:42opportunities
20:42and they started
20:44putting together
20:45a case
20:47to go to Crown
20:49Court
20:49to charge the
20:50suspects with murder.
21:00you have to understand
21:02that there have been
21:03many miscarriages
21:05of justice
21:05in the past
21:06over false
21:08identifications
21:09and the judge
21:10said that
21:13the witnesses
21:14were not
21:15up to the standard
21:17that he required.
21:20The discontinuing
21:22of the private prosecution
21:25was a horrific
21:27further occasion
21:29when the Lawrences
21:30felt betrayed
21:32by the system
21:33that they had believed in
21:35would support them.
21:38We tried and we failed.
21:40At least we tried.
21:41I didn't have any confidence
21:43in the police
21:44at that time
21:45because they hadn't done
21:47anything.
21:47I felt that it was
21:48just a show.
22:01It really upset
22:02Baroness Lawrence
22:03and Dr. Neville Lawrence.
22:05It really upset them
22:06that they felt
22:07a little bit betrayed
22:08I think
22:08in all honesty.
22:11At the time
22:12there was a change
22:13of government
22:13in 1997
22:14where you had
22:16a new Labour government
22:17and I believe
22:18that Mr. Jack Straw
22:20had actually
22:21agreed a public inquiry.
22:23The public inquiry
22:24was set up like this.
22:27The Home Secretary
22:27gave it terms
22:29of reference.
22:31He wanted it led
22:33by a High Court judge.
22:35That means
22:36that under the legislation
22:38that you can oblige people.
22:41They are forced
22:43to go
22:43to the public inquiry
22:45and to give evidence
22:46and in fact
22:49what are known
22:50as the famous five
22:51the suspects
22:53named
22:54by the Daily Mail
22:55were obliged
22:57to go there
22:58and give evidence.
23:01There are laws
23:02that you have to
23:03adhere to
23:04so
23:05if the legal advice
23:06given to them
23:07is to not answer questions
23:09that's their legal advice
23:11that's their legal advice
23:12and that is our system.
23:14The attitude
23:15that they had
23:16that they tribuled
23:17in Elephant and Castle
23:19they felt really confident
23:21that nobody
23:22is going to be able
23:22to touch them
23:24and the fact
23:25that they eventually
23:26had to come
23:27was kind of a
23:28good for the public
23:30to see them in person.
23:36There was real anger
23:37at these people
23:38who
23:39you know
23:40let's be honest
23:41they've been
23:41on the front page
23:42of a national newspaper
23:43as the suspects
23:44who killed Stephen Lawrence.
23:53The public inquiry
23:55which had
23:57a specialist
23:58police officer
23:59on it
24:00from another force
24:02as well as
24:04a bishop
24:05a well-known
24:06philanthropist
24:07and a judge
24:09concluded
24:10that
24:10it was not
24:12an effective
24:13or competent
24:14inquiry
24:17I think there were
24:18many criticisms
24:19you know
24:21institutional racism
24:23it certainly
24:24is a painful read
24:25if he was a police officer.
24:34There was clearly
24:35evidence
24:36emerging
24:37about the way
24:37the family
24:38felt they had
24:40been treated
24:40and the way
24:42that their lawyers
24:45had decided
24:45described the way
24:47that they'd been treated.
24:56The attitude
24:57and the behavior
24:58of the police
24:59became a bit better
25:00when Jack Straw
25:02took over
25:02as Home Secretary.
25:03I was able to go
25:05and talk with Jack Straw
25:06quite regularly.
25:09This was about
25:10the failure
25:10of the organization.
25:13In some of these matters
25:15it was a paradigm shift
25:19and family liaison
25:21is the case in point.
25:41D.C. Fiona Wright speaking.
25:43Oh hello Clive.
25:46Do you want me to be part
25:48of the Stephen Lawrence investigation?
25:50Okay I'll come to the office.
25:53In the early days
25:55of murder investigations
25:56the family were
25:57always treated
25:59as something
25:59outside of the investigation.
26:01I would say
26:02that the idea
26:03of family liaison
26:04being formalized
26:06was to standardize
26:07the process
26:08throughout the Met
26:09and actually
26:10throughout England
26:11and Wales.
26:12I was an experienced
26:14family liaison officer
26:15nearly 30 years
26:16of doing family liaison.
26:18It was something
26:19that was desperately needed
26:20I think at that time.
26:22The way
26:23the Lawrence family
26:24were treated
26:24was something
26:25that I found
26:27heartbreaking.
26:28when I took
26:29this case over
26:30and bear in mind
26:31it was a room
26:32as big as we're sitting in
26:33full of boxes
26:35and full of papers
26:37a Holmes computer system
26:39which they described
26:40as chaotic
26:41it took a bit of time
26:43to understand
26:44there was a realization
26:47that we hadn't got it right
26:48and we weren't supplying
26:50the service
26:51that the public deserved.
26:53You know
26:53so just
26:54let's focus on
26:55we say
26:56we want to look after
26:58families of victims
26:59we say that we want
27:01them to feel part
27:02of what we're doing
27:03do I believe
27:04at that point
27:05the SIO
27:06has a massive
27:08obligation
27:09to make themselves
27:10more available
27:11yes I do.
27:13Looking after families
27:15to me
27:16is vital
27:16because
27:17that is the most
27:18horrific thing
27:19that can happen
27:20to any family
27:20is to lose family
27:22to sudden
27:22and violent deaths.
27:24My role
27:25was to act
27:26as
27:27I'm going to say
27:28a helper
27:29to Dr. Lawrence
27:31it was important
27:33that he had
27:35somebody
27:35a police officer
27:37who he could trust
27:40to tell him
27:41the truth.
27:43When
27:44was it 15 years
27:46after Stephen's murder
27:47when Clive took over
27:49you could see
27:50that he was actually
27:51a genuine police officer
27:53trying to do the job
27:55that the others
27:55had not tried to do.
27:58he'd call a meeting
27:59with us
28:00and tell us
28:00where he is
28:01and what he's doing.
28:03When I first met
28:04Dr. Lawrence
28:05it was a good conversation
28:06a pleasant conversation
28:09I'm even going to go
28:10as far as to say
28:11a friendly conversation.
28:12Fiona
28:12was sent
28:13as a liaison officer
28:15so that was different
28:16and acted like
28:18a liaison officer
28:19was completely different
28:21and it was good
28:22to have her there with me.
28:24I probably
28:25would have avoided
28:26talking about
28:27Stephen's murder
28:28at that time
28:29because
28:29it was something
28:31that I wanted
28:32to get to know
28:32Dr. Lawrence
28:33a bit better
28:35before we would
28:36actually discuss
28:37what happened
28:38on that dreadful night.
28:39And we could
28:40sit and talk with her
28:41and if she had
28:43any information
28:43to tell us
28:45what was happening
28:45she would give it
28:46before we weren't
28:48being told anything.
28:50So one of the things
28:51I felt
28:52the McPherson inquiry
28:54was a seminal moment
28:56for the police
28:58in some ways
29:00that forced
29:01certain departments
29:02to become more professional.
29:04My name is Angie Barton
29:06and I was a Metropolitan Police
29:08Family Liaison Officer
29:09in the Stephen Lawrence inquiry.
29:13And that's when
29:14I think the role
29:15of the flow
29:15was professionalised
29:17making sure
29:18that the people
29:19that are selected
29:20to perform that role
29:21understand what
29:22their responsibilities are.
29:24You know
29:24it's really important
29:25that the person
29:27who is being supported
29:29feels that they
29:30can trust you
29:30that you will be able
29:32to support them
29:32answer any questions
29:34help them understand
29:35the processes.
29:37PHONE RINGS
29:38Hello Angie Barton
29:39speaking.
29:41Oh hi Clive
29:42how you doing?
29:44Oh right okay
29:45Stephen Lawrence inquiry
29:48right okay
29:49let me pop up
29:50and see you.
29:52I had worked
29:53on an inquiry
29:53with DCI Clive Driscoll
29:55as part of the team
29:56and I was a DS
29:57at the time.
29:58I'd been there
29:59about three or four years
30:01and we were on call
30:02when the tsunami struck
30:04in Thailand
30:05and any other
30:06affected area
30:06and I think
30:07maybe Clive had seen
30:09how I interacted
30:10with people
30:10some of whom
30:11would be ringing up
30:12to give details
30:13about their
30:14missing person
30:15and would be
30:16absolutely distraught.
30:18I was very honoured
30:19when he thought
30:20that I could
30:22be Mrs Lawrence's flow.
30:24You know people
30:25actually ask me
30:26the obvious question
30:27did I pick Angie
30:28because of the
30:29pigmentation of the skin
30:29the answer is no.
30:31You know I mean
30:32the answer was
30:33that she was there
30:34and she was
30:34absolutely perfect
30:36for the job.
30:37I remember there was
30:37an occasion
30:38when Stephen's memorial
30:39where he sadly fell
30:42there was a plaque
30:44and people would
30:45go up there
30:45and deface it
30:46and cause criminal
30:48damage to it
30:49and the DI at the time
30:50rang me to say
30:51could you let
30:51Mrs Lawrence know
30:52that this has happened?
30:55My role was
30:56to make sure
30:56that she was
30:57given information
30:58as timely as possible.
31:00Someone's got to come
31:01and speak to those people
31:02when they are
31:03at their lowest ebb
31:05in their lives.
31:12The Macpherson Inquiry
31:14professionalised
31:16the role of a flow
31:17and it became recognised
31:19as an important
31:20and integral part
31:21of any inquiry.
31:23You have to have
31:25resilience,
31:26empathy,
31:27compassion,
31:28respect
31:29to do that role
31:30because you're dealing
31:31with families
31:32at their moment
31:33of grief.
31:35Subsequently
31:35when we set up
31:37the training course
31:39for both
31:40for the family liaison
31:42officers themselves
31:43and for their supervisors
31:46the SIOs
31:47and for the wider organisation
31:49to understand
31:50what we wanted
31:52to achieve
31:53in terms of
31:54cultural change
31:55by the family liaison
31:57officers.
31:58They had loads of
32:00loads of people
32:02that come in
32:03who were academics.
32:04They started by defining
32:06what is an FLO,
32:07what do we want
32:08FLOs to do.
32:09They're the communication
32:10between the families
32:12and the SIO.
32:13Basically they put forward
32:15a package
32:16which was refined
32:17as they found out
32:18what was working,
32:19what wasn't working.
32:20The unit evolved
32:22and became
32:23the diversity directorate
32:24to just try
32:26to make the police
32:27a better organisation
32:30when it came to
32:31especially racism
32:33and just dealing
32:34with people
32:35not to be so insular.
32:36That's why
32:37you always see it said
32:39now
32:40in murder inquiries
32:41the family
32:42are being supported
32:43by specially
32:45trained officers.
32:47They always call them
32:48now specially trained officers.
32:56something that I did
32:57with Dr. Lawrence
32:58was go up to
32:59the University
33:00of East Anglia
33:01because he was
33:03speaking up there
33:04about the case.
33:07Whilst we were driving
33:08it came on the news
33:10that the double jeopardy
33:12rule had been scrapped
33:13and we were both
33:14so pleased.
33:16The double jeopardy
33:17a law came in
33:19which meant
33:19if you had new
33:20and compelling evidence
33:21then you could actually
33:23go to the court
33:24High Court
33:24Royal Court of Justice
33:26and you could
33:26put your case
33:27before
33:28three judges
33:30appeal judges
33:31to say you wanted
33:32to squash the original
33:33not guilty verdict
33:35and start again.
33:36It meant that
33:38a further investigation
33:39could take place
33:40seeking new evidence
33:42to prosecute
33:44the suspects again.
33:46So my role
33:48was to collect
33:49Mr. and Mrs. Lawrence
33:50from their various homes
33:52and take them
33:53to the Royal Courts
33:53of Justice
33:54to hear
33:55the hearings
33:56and to explain
33:57what was going on
33:58so that they
33:59didn't have to do
33:59that on their own
34:00to make sure
34:01that they
34:01didn't have that stress.
34:10what Clive did
34:11was to have
34:12took all the evidence
34:13that was there
34:14and start having
34:15a second look at it
34:16to see if there was
34:17anything that could
34:19pin the guys
34:20that were involved
34:21to the murder.
34:23Because of the advancements
34:24in forensics
34:25new information
34:26and evidence
34:27had come to light.
34:28It was because
34:29of the developments
34:31in DNA
34:34and related
34:35micro-forensic
34:37evidence.
34:39Stephen's third
34:40layer of clothing
34:41it shed
34:42and all these
34:43fibres had gone
34:44onto the outside
34:45of his clothing
34:47which I said
34:48surely that must
34:49give us half a chance
34:50that they shed
34:51on the suspects
34:52who were attacking him.
34:54We'd held those
34:55exhibits since 1993.
34:57we'd held those
34:58jackets
34:58we'd held those
35:00trousers
35:00because it was
35:01an ongoing
35:02investigation.
35:03So we were trying
35:04to say to the
35:05scientists
35:05look
35:06great opportunity
35:07here
35:08because of all
35:09these fibres
35:10which were all
35:10over the place.
35:11Within
35:13months really
35:14we got this
35:15coming back
35:15well hang on
35:16yeah not only
35:17have we found
35:17these fibres
35:18on Stephen
35:19we found them
35:20on the suspects
35:21and it was
35:22in 2008
35:25where I got
35:26a phone call
35:26saying that
35:27we'd found
35:28Stephen's blood
35:29on a fibre
35:31which was on
35:32Gary Dobson's
35:33jacket
35:33but it was
35:35actually round
35:35the fibre
35:36which meant
35:37it was wet
35:38when it hit
35:39that jacket
35:39which meant
35:40that that jacket
35:41Gary Dobson's
35:42jacket
35:43was at the scene
35:44when Stephen
35:45was attacked.
35:47Which meant
35:48that there was
35:48new and compelling
35:49evidence
35:50to put
35:52to a jury
35:53to consider
35:54whether the
35:55suspects
35:55were guilty
35:56or not
35:57and Mr
35:58and Mrs
35:58Lawrence
35:58were taken
35:59every day
35:59during that
36:01hearing
36:01to hear
36:03what was
36:03being discussed
36:04and then
36:05to understand
36:05what the
36:06decision
36:06was going
36:07to be.
36:08Clive came
36:09in and said
36:10to me
36:11we got
36:12something
36:12at last
36:13and he
36:14explained
36:14to me
36:14that they
36:15had found
36:15a spot
36:15of blood
36:16and there
36:17is no
36:17way
36:18any blood
36:19could be
36:19on anybody's
36:20jacket
36:21from the
36:22victim
36:22who was killed
36:23unless you
36:24were there.
36:25We called
36:25a meeting
36:26at Scotland Yard
36:28the FLOs
36:29were brilliant.
36:29The main
36:30challenge
36:30with being
36:31Dr Lawrence's
36:32FLO
36:33was to
36:34make sure
36:35that I
36:37imparted
36:37the correct
36:38information
36:38to him
36:39making sure
36:40always
36:40always
36:41to tell
36:41the truth.
36:42I would
36:43be the
36:43go-between
36:44when he
36:45was going
36:46to be
36:46told something.
36:47We managed
36:48to get
36:49Baroness Lawrence
36:49and Neville
36:50Lawrence
36:50into Scotland Yard
36:52with
36:53our
36:54anybody
36:54knowing
36:54and that
36:56I can tell
36:57you now
36:57was a very
36:58emotional moment
36:59for Baroness
37:01Lawrence
37:01and Dr Lawrence.
37:02I felt
37:03that the
37:03fight that
37:04I was
37:04putting up
37:05over the
37:05years
37:06had paid
37:07off at
37:07last
37:09and was
37:10hoping
37:10that at
37:11least
37:11this time
37:12we would
37:13get a
37:13better
37:13verdict.
37:22The suspects
37:23were David
37:24Norris
37:24and Gary
37:25Dobson.
37:26They were
37:26charged with
37:27Stephen's
37:27murder
37:28and kept
37:29in custody
37:30to stand
37:31trial
37:32and there
37:33was a lot
37:34of press
37:34attention.
37:35It was
37:36very
37:37intense
37:38and I
37:39was very
37:39conscious
37:39of that
37:40for
37:40Mrs.
37:41Lawrence.
37:41She had
37:42been at
37:43the Old
37:43Bailey
37:43before
37:45but this
37:46time
37:46it was
37:47a proper
37:47trial
37:50and every
37:51time I
37:51picked her
37:51up
37:52to take
37:53her to
37:53court
37:53I was
37:54just
37:54very
37:54mindful
37:55of the
37:55fact
37:55that this
37:56was the
37:56first time
37:57really
37:57going through
37:58that process
37:59so I
38:00would do
38:00my best
38:00to try
38:01and explain
38:01what was
38:02going on.
38:02I suppose I
38:04was feeling
38:05hopeful
38:05and feeling
38:07more confident
38:08that at least
38:10one person
38:12would be sent
38:13to prison.
38:16I think
38:17if I had to
38:17summarise
38:18what the
38:18prosecution
38:19case was
38:19was heavily
38:20based on
38:21the new
38:21forensic
38:22evidence
38:22but bringing
38:23in all
38:24of the
38:25other
38:25evidence
38:25that we
38:26already
38:26had
38:26so listening
38:27to evidence
38:29by police
38:29officers
38:30listening to
38:30the police
38:31officers
38:31who found
38:32the exhibit
38:33listening to
38:34the police
38:34officers
38:34who'd
38:35interviewed
38:36sort of
38:36the suspects
38:37listening
38:37to the
38:38differences
38:39from what
38:40the suspects
38:40say to
38:41what the
38:41evidence
38:41is now
38:42telling
38:42you.
38:42I
38:43remember
38:45when the
38:45pathologist
38:46was explaining
38:47about
38:47Stephen's
38:48injuries
38:48and how
38:49he had
38:49died
38:50he had
38:51mentioned
38:52that even
38:52if they'd
38:53had the
38:53best
38:53surgeons
38:54waiting
38:55they would
38:56not have
38:56been able
38:56to save
38:57him.
38:58It was
38:59quite intense
39:00and I
39:01felt awful
39:02because there's
39:03nothing any
39:04of us can
39:04do to
39:05lessen
39:05that pain.
39:13there were
39:14lots of
39:14different
39:15witnesses
39:15Dwayne
39:16for example
39:17he gave
39:18his evidence
39:20various
39:20witnesses
39:21gave their
39:22accounts
39:23to the
39:23jury
39:23for them
39:24to hear
39:24what was
39:24going on
39:25the forensics
39:26was really
39:28challenged
39:28because that
39:29was the
39:30point at
39:31which the
39:31defence
39:32barristers
39:33were trying
39:33to introduce
39:34any element
39:35of doubt
39:37I remember
39:38Norris and
39:39Dobson
39:39when they
39:41gave their
39:42evidence
39:42at the
39:43trial
39:43that was
39:45quite
39:46difficult
39:47for the
39:47family
39:48they said
39:49some things
39:49that were
39:50quite
39:50hysterical
39:51for me
39:52you know
39:53trying to
39:53make out
39:53that they
39:54were sat
39:54apparently
39:55at home
39:55listening
39:56to some
39:56Bob Marley
39:57records
39:58they were
39:59trying to
40:00give the
40:01impression
40:01that they
40:02weren't
40:02racists
40:05but their
40:06actions
40:07on the
40:07night
40:07proved
40:09differently
40:11the
40:12closing
40:12speeches
40:13then the
40:14judge
40:14did his
40:14directions
40:15his summing
40:16up
40:16and at
40:17that
40:17moment
40:17I did
40:18feel
40:18for
40:19Baroness
40:19Lawrence
40:20and Dr
40:20Neville
40:20Lawrence
40:21because
40:22you realised
40:22in my
40:23case
40:23it was
40:23six years
40:24of an
40:25investigation
40:25there
40:25was
40:2618
40:26years
40:26of
40:27you know
40:28waiting
40:29for
40:29some
40:30kind
40:30of
40:30justice
40:37both
40:37guilty
40:38of
40:38murder
40:39Gary
40:40Dobson
40:40got
40:4115
40:42years
40:42and
40:42two
40:42months
40:43because
40:44he's
40:44older
40:44and
40:45David
40:45Norris
40:46got
40:4614
40:47years
40:47and
40:47three
40:48months
40:48to
40:49reflect
40:49the
40:49age
40:50difference
40:50because
40:50of
40:51one
40:52being
40:52more
40:52an
40:52adult
40:53than
40:53the
40:53other
40:53one
40:53both
40:54sentenced
40:55with
40:56a
40:56condition
40:56that
40:57they
40:57should
40:57serve
40:57the
40:57full
40:58term
40:58of
40:59their
40:59sentence
41:00because
41:00they
41:01were
41:01under
41:0218
41:02at
41:02the
41:02time
41:02that
41:03the
41:03offences
41:03occurred
41:04they
41:05couldn't
41:05be
41:05sentenced
41:06as
41:07adults
41:07and that
41:08was
41:08quite
41:08galling
41:08so I
41:09don't
41:10know
41:10what it
41:10would have
41:10been
41:10like
41:10for
41:11Mrs.
41:11Lawrence
41:13I do
41:13remember
41:15she
41:15was
41:15very
41:16calm
41:16and
41:17collected
41:18it
41:19was
41:19quite
41:19emotional
41:20it
41:20was
41:20incredible
41:21that
41:22she
41:22finally
41:23got
41:23the
41:23justice
41:23that
41:24she
41:24thought
41:24she
41:24probably
41:24never
41:25ever
41:25would
41:25have
41:25got
41:26I
41:27sat
41:27there
41:27with
41:28my
41:28solicitor
41:29I
41:30felt
41:30a
41:31final
41:31sense
41:31of
41:32relief
41:32but
41:32also
41:33I
41:34was
41:34feeling
41:35very
41:35hungry
41:35that
41:35it
41:36had
41:36taken
41:36so
41:36long
41:37and
41:38if
41:39the
41:39police
41:40had
41:40done
41:40what
41:41they
41:41were
41:41supposed
41:41to
41:41do
41:41in
41:42the
41:42first
41:42place
41:43I
41:44wasn't
41:44really
41:45happy
41:45that
41:46the
41:46others
41:47were
41:47still
41:47walking
41:48around
41:48free
41:48when
41:50two
41:50of
41:50the
41:50people
41:51who
41:51were
41:51involved
41:52was
41:53in
41:53the
41:53dock
41:53I
41:53think
41:54I
41:54was
41:54hoping
41:54that
41:55all
41:55five
41:55of
41:55them
41:55would
41:56have
41:56been
41:56there
42:00it's
42:01not
42:01complete
42:02it
42:03doesn't
42:03make
42:03up
42:04for
42:05all
42:06the
42:06heartache
42:07but
42:08it
42:09does
42:09indicate
42:11that
42:12given
42:13the
42:13right
42:14circumstances
42:15that
42:16it's
42:16possible
42:16to
42:17get
42:17some
42:17justice
42:18even
42:19a
42:19long
42:20time
42:20later
42:20I
42:21think
42:21the
42:21Stephen
42:22Lawrence
42:22case
42:22was
42:22a
42:23turning
42:23point
42:23in
42:23the
42:23role
42:24of
42:24FLO
42:24because
42:25albeit
42:26a lot
42:27of
42:27officers
42:27had
42:28performed
42:29the
42:29role
42:29informally
42:31in the
42:31past
42:31it
42:32formalized
42:32it
42:33and
42:34it
42:35gave
42:35a
42:35framework
42:36for
42:36officers
42:37to
42:37work
42:37with
42:38the
42:38role
42:39of
42:39the
42:39flow
42:39has
42:40now
42:40been
42:40recognized
42:41and
42:42standardized
42:42to such
42:43an extent
42:44that
42:44there
42:44are
42:44countries
42:45around
42:45the
42:45world
42:46other
42:47police
42:47services
42:48around
42:48the
42:48world
42:48who
42:48are
42:49now
42:49modeling
42:49the
42:50family
42:50liaison
42:51role
42:51within
42:52their
42:52own
42:53organizations
42:54and their
42:55skills are
42:56deployed
42:56not just in
42:57murders
42:58in missing
42:59persons
42:59in serious car
43:01crashes
43:01I think that
43:03we can look at pride with the FLOs
43:06and say that
43:07your legacy Stephen
43:09lives on
43:10in the excellent work
43:12that FLOs do
43:14and your legacy lives on
43:16because in fact
43:18you know
43:18that difference
43:19will make a difference
43:21to many
43:21many families
43:22I don't
43:23be honest
43:24fancy seeing you
43:25here
43:28oh
43:29how are you
43:39before we first met in a restaurant
43:42in Wandsworth
43:43do you remember
43:43because
43:44they wanted to make sure
43:46that you and I
43:46would get on
43:47they being the
43:48senior officers
43:49and I think you
43:51also
43:51had a veto
43:52so you could say
43:54no I don't like that
43:55woman
43:57and then
43:58because we had got on
43:59I could then
44:00I invited you down
44:01to stay with us
44:02in Sussex
44:03and you came
44:04and stayed with
44:05my husband and I
44:06and we just had a great time
44:07I remember when
44:09I was new
44:10in the police
44:10and a couple of the
44:11older
44:12detectives would go on
44:13have their retirement dues
44:15and it was not unusual
44:17to see families
44:18that they had supported
44:19earlier in their service
44:20turn up at their
44:21retirement dues
44:22so for me
44:22it was normal
44:23and to hear what's
44:24going on here
44:25is normal
44:25and although our
44:26connection was quite funny
44:28because I'd gone out
44:29to Jamaica after I retired
44:30to look after my mum
44:31for six months
44:32and who should be
44:32in the same church
44:34no really
44:37I couldn't believe it
44:39what are you doing here
44:41yeah that's the church
44:42I used to go to
44:43before I even got baptised
44:45so
44:46I want to be baptised
44:48on the 13th of March
44:50that's the day
44:50that I was born
44:52my life has just changed
44:54because I stopped thinking
44:55these really bad things
44:57I don't want to forgive
44:58these people
44:59who killed my son
45:03it was eating me
45:04yeah
45:04I couldn't sleep some nights
45:06no
45:07thinking about
45:08what would be an easy way
45:09to find them
45:10and do something bad
45:11I think about it all the time
45:14that you're both grieving
45:16for your beautiful son
45:17yeah
45:17and none of us could ever know
45:19what that feels like
45:20no
45:20we see it a lot
45:22we have seen it a lot
45:23with other families
45:24the grief
45:24but I could never say
45:26I understand
45:27I can't even begin to tell you
45:28how wonderful it is
45:29to be able to sit here
45:30and talk to these two people
45:33who made my life a lot
45:35easier and better
45:37after so many disappointments
45:39in the early days
45:40that people come into the house
45:42not to support us
45:44but to try and find reason
45:46to blame my son
45:48for his own death
45:51it was an honour
45:52and a privilege
45:53to meet Neville
45:54I would say
45:55and to be appointed
45:57as his a fellow
45:58I would say
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