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00:08This was a cold and calculated murder.
00:16There's always a breaking point in an investigation.
00:24The timeline of events didn't add up.
00:32It was crucial we supported our family contact.
00:51This case was the saddest case that I have ever dealt with in my whole service.
00:59Jamie was a vulnerable little boy as well as a funny little boy.
01:03In my heart, I was hoping and praying he was okay and he'd come home.
01:09Any murders are very, very serious, but the murder of a child is very emotive.
01:13When I saw the small coffin coming towards me, it was sad to see he had the rest of his
01:19life to live, and it just was not fair.
01:30I was informed on the 24th of October 1997 that I needed to attend the lavish home address.
01:39I was tasked to inform them the tragic news that the remains of their eight-year-old son, Jamie, had
01:48been found.
01:49From that moment, I became their point of contact.
01:54My name is Asif Hussein.
01:56I'm a former Greater Manchester police officer, and I was assigned as a family liaison officer, also known as a
02:03flow, on the Jamie Lavis murder investigation.
02:07A family liaison officer is very, very important.
02:11They need to be in there straightaway to advise them, because people don't know what to do.
02:17They're in such shock.
02:19You've got to gather information from the victim's family, and at the same time, support them in every way you
02:26can.
02:27That's the difference with being a uniformed police officer on patrol and being a flow.
02:32You have to become a friend of the family.
02:36Jamie had been missing for around eight months at this point.
02:40I will never forget delivering what we call a death message, and he's stayed with me ever since.
02:57Hello, PCSN Graymalane Area Office.
03:00Yes, sir.
03:01I'm aware about the eight-year-old missing boy, Jamie Lavis.
03:05Come to the office.
03:06Yes, of course I will.
03:09On the 24th of October, 1997, a call came in advising us that clothing had been found identified as that
03:18belonging to Jamie Lavis.
03:19It was two young children, and they were friends of Jamie Lavis.
03:24They said they were approached by this fellow, seemed as though he wanted them to take them into the woods.
03:31The children became frightened, and they run off.
03:33My name is Roy Rainford.
03:35I was the senior investigating officer in 1997 on the investigation involving Jamie Lavis.
03:43It was a missing from home at that time, but it was a missing from home of an eight-year
03:48-old child who was very, very vulnerable.
03:53Due to the information given us, we were directed to an area of Reddish Vale.
04:00It's a country park, but where Reddish Vale is, there's Reddish Vale Golf Club.
04:05It runs parallel with the park, but off the beaten track of that park, it becomes like a jungle.
04:13You can't walk through certain parts of that area without using two hands, climbing over broken pottery, over broken trees,
04:23pushing your way through bushes.
04:25And Mr. Rainford said he was going to get the Pulsar team, the search team, the police dogs and divers
04:31to go to that location because there was a big river there.
04:36I can remember that day well because it was raining heavily, and I knew that area where they were searching
04:43was a bit of a quagmire.
04:45And we had specialist search officers there.
04:47We had a system that anything was found, the exhibits officer would go and collect it to make sure it
04:54was dealt with properly.
04:56Evidential-wise, we took the top two inches of soil off that area, and they found a number of bones.
05:06The search officers found a milk tooth and scooped up some clothing, brought it back to the police station, and
05:16there was a golf ball in the pocket.
05:22My name is Kim Doyle, and in the 90s, I was known as a divisional crown prosecutor in Greater Manchester.
05:29The clothing was taken back to the police station to be bagged and properly looked after because it had, you
05:36know, huge forensic potential.
05:38The exhibits officer came to see me, told me what he'd collected.
05:42It was all in a bag, and I had advised him to lay it out, dry it out, and we'd
05:47go down and examine it.
05:49Within a matter of minutes of him leaving me, he was back up, said he'd stretched the clothing, but he'd
05:54found a jawbone.
06:01I remember him telling me that he was very, very shocked to find it.
06:06I'd then gone in contact with a forensic pathologist, and he immediately identified it as belonging to a child between
06:14about seven years and 11 years.
06:18So we'd found clothing which could be described by the family as similar to what Jamie was wearing when he
06:26was missing, and we found this human jawbone.
06:30A number of bones and a milk tooth.
06:34We were able to use the dental records then to identify Jamie.
06:44To tell somebody that their eight-year-old son is not coming home is the saddest thing you can ever
06:51tell anybody.
06:56Death messages are the worst message that any police officer can give to a member of a family.
07:05It's awful, but somebody has to tell them whether it be a murder, whether it be an accident, whether it
07:11be a sudden death.
07:12As an FLO, that's your job to make sure they're aware of everything, before the newspapers or the television report
07:20anything.
07:20They need to be made aware of it.
07:26I got a phone call.
07:29I went to tell them that we had recovered some remains and some clothing identical of that worn by their
07:39son, and that made me feel very sad, because all the hope that they had disappeared.
07:48So I said, what is it, he said, we've found remains, human remains, a wax jacket, a Reebok tracksuit, and
07:56one boot.
07:56So I identified the clothes, Jamie's.
08:03We showed Karen Labies the remains in a white shoebox in the presence of Roy Rainford.
08:10That was very difficult.
08:12She said, where's the rest of him?
08:14I think she said, that's what she said.
08:18And I said, I'm sorry, I don't know.
08:21We've searched everywhere.
08:23Really heartbreaking, really, really heartbreaking.
08:29A couple of weeks before we went missing, me and Jamie actually went to the dentist and our teeth out.
08:35I'm Jamie Labies, and I'm Jamie Labies' sister.
08:39That was the only identifier that really they could find that was Jamie.
08:43It was his jawbone.
08:48I just collapsed.
08:50I never got to say goodbye.
08:52I never got...
08:55Sorry.
09:00There was no old one.
09:08Once my mum and my nana came back from identifying the clothes and Jamie's jawbone, we all just cumbled.
09:20I don't know how a parent ever comes to terms with the murder of the child.
09:30This has now turned into a murder inquiry.
09:42I first met the Labies family on the 5th of May, 1997, when I was notified that their eight-year
09:49-old son had gone missing.
09:50In cases of people going missing, the family liaison officer is a supportive post and an informative post.
10:00Jamie lived with his mother and his father.
10:02He'd got two older sisters, an elder brother and a younger brother at that time.
10:08There was Nicholas, who was 16, Jane, who was about 13, John was about 11, and Scott was 4.
10:18It was 5th of May, 1997, Bank Holiday Monday.
10:24And Jamie went out with his brother, John.
10:27It was about, I'd say, about half past 8, 9 o'clock.
10:30I shouted to say, your breakfast.
10:32John come in.
10:33I said, where's Jamie?
10:34He's over at QuickServe.
10:36I said, well, will you go and get him?
10:37He said, he's not coming in.
10:39Jamie used to play out every day and used to go to QuickServe, Ashton Hall Road, in Openshaw, Manchester,
10:48where he would help elderly people with the shopping baskets, and in return, he would receive a pound.
10:54That was Jamie.
10:56He'd help anybody.
10:57He was so lovable.
10:59He constantly put his arms around me, kissed me on my cheek.
11:02They didn't get concerned or anything.
11:06I did at the night time when it got tea time-ish and he weren't in, so I just knew
11:11something wasn't right.
11:14Jamie wasn't a child who liked the dark, and this is what I couldn't understand, where was he?
11:20Why didn't he come home?
11:25Me and Nicola and Jane, John, we were locking on Jamie's friend's doors, walking on the streets.
11:31We couldn't find him anywhere.
11:32It was like he'd disappeared off the base of the earth.
11:36We just didn't know what to do, so we rang the police at 10 o'clock.
11:41I was a police officer on the beat as a community beat officer, dealing with members of the community and
11:48Home Watch.
11:48I was involved with a lot of families on my beat, and I used to help them out on a
11:54regular basis with domestic disputes and missing children.
11:58The day I got the call to be a family liaison officer, I was on patrol in police uniform.
12:04So I attended the police station, spoke to Superintendent Roy Rainford, who advised me to go home, get a suit
12:11and tie-on, and attend the address of the Lavis family.
12:14It was a missing from home of an eight-year-old child who was very, very vulnerable.
12:21Jamie was hyperactive, and he couldn't sense danger.
12:26Everybody assumed he was naughty, but he wasn't.
12:28He'd had assessments.
12:30He had ADHD.
12:32We had to have eyes all over your body to keep an eye on him, because if he moved one
12:36minute, he'd be gone, because that's the kid that he was.
12:40The slightest thing distracted him when he was off.
12:43We needed to ensure that child's safety, because at that time everybody believed that Jamie was alive.
12:58Jamie Lavis lived in the Open Shore area of Manchester, on a main arterial road between a town called Ashton
13:06-under-Line and the Manchester city centre.
13:09He was on a major bus route.
13:12When I turned up at the Lavis' house the first day, I paused, drove round the block several times, thinking,
13:22what's the first thing I'm going to say? What would I say to my wife if my son was missing?
13:28Knocked on the door, I just said, I'm really sorry about the disappearance of your eight-year-old son,
13:34and I will do everything to help you find him.
13:38From that moment, he was, like, helping us and do whatever we needed to do.
13:44The reaction from Mum and Dad was tears and also relief. I could see it in their faces.
13:56For the next nine days, there was intensive searching by the uniform staff.
14:01There was dogs used, horses used, helicopter used, line searches.
14:09The searching, like, disused sheds and things like that was heart-wrenching.
14:15Wondering, was he cold, was he hungry?
14:18Did he have clothes?
14:22You block it out because you don't want to remember.
14:25They couldn't speak because they were crying constantly.
14:29It was scary. It was horrible because I just had this feeling that something could happen to him.
14:35When I see a family struggling, it obviously affects me.
14:38It's upsetting to see them going through a difficult time.
14:42At first, I felt a bit wary of him, of us, because the police was there,
14:46but then I got to know him and I felt more comfortable for him to be there.
14:51And I told them, even though I'm a police officer, I'm their friend as well.
14:57From that moment, obviously, that's how we got attached to Asif,
15:01because he was the only one that I really spoke to out of everybody
15:05that got uncomfortable with anything.
15:07He was there for us all the time.
15:10With you being there constantly, you're constantly receiving information
15:14and then you're passing it back to the information room
15:17who are dealing with the missing from home.
15:19The FLO will go out and hopefully bring back pieces of the jigsaw puzzle
15:24and it's down to the SIO and his management team to put them together
15:29and get the full story.
15:33At that time, I was becoming more and more concerned.
15:36He could have been injured, he could have been involved in an accident
15:40or he could have died, basically.
15:44This child still hadn't materialised.
15:46The police decided they needed to begin a much more thorough investigation
15:51to his disappearance.
15:53We needed to make sure that everything was being done
15:57to return him to his family safely.
16:00As a family liaison officer, I kept the Levis family involved
16:05in the investigation of their son being missing.
16:08I would tell them on the progression of the incident room
16:12who were looking for Jamie Levis,
16:15especially that we were now making posters and distributing them to local shops.
16:20I became the point of contact for that family and for dealing with members of the press,
16:25who were constantly knocking at the door.
16:27I also told the family that there were going to be news bulletins on the local television.
16:32I said, we're speaking to the TV people, Grenada reports,
16:36and we're hoping to do a TV appeal.
16:40Would you and John mind coming with me?
16:43I'll take you and I'll stay with you.
16:45And then, if whoever may have Jamie sees you on the TV,
16:52it might help them when they see how distressed you are
16:56to release him and let him come home.
16:59And they both agreed to do that.
17:01Now, Jamie's described as being small for his age.
17:04He's about four foot tall,
17:06and he wears clothes that are made to fit a five- to six-year-old.
17:10Please just get in touch with the police.
17:13Everybody's waiting for him to come home.
17:16Roy Rainford didn't leave any stone unturned,
17:19and I told them that.
17:20They were happy that the police were doing everything they could.
17:24We was looked after.
17:25We knew it was comfortable.
17:27And if we needed anything, go speak to anybody.
17:30We knew he was there to help us.
17:34We kept getting sightings, daily sightings.
17:38They were saying, yes, I know Jamie, that's him.
17:41All the sightings are being investigated.
17:43Other people are being interviewed.
17:45We did not, at that stage, believe that he'd come to any harm.
17:51The longer Jamie was missing,
17:53the more I was finding things out from his family, from his friends.
17:58Once you get to know the family, it helps a lot,
18:01because they start to trust you and tell you things
18:05which they may not have told the police that first came.
18:09The family...
18:12..telling me that a stranger had knocked on their door
18:16after seeing me drive off.
18:24We got a knock on the door,
18:26and it was my sister-in-law who answered the door.
18:31And she said, who are you?
18:33He said, I'm just wondering, is it you what's got a little boy,
18:36what's got missing?
18:37He happened to be wearing a dark blue Reebok tracksuit
18:40and a little wax jacket.
18:42So she brought him in the house.
18:46Said he'd had him on the bus that day.
18:50Darren Vickers was a bus driver.
18:53He'd been employed by the bus company for about one month.
18:56He drove the 219 Dennis bus along Ashton Hall Road to Ashton.
19:02He told Karen that Jamie had been on the bus
19:05and that he may have been the last person to have seen him.
19:08And he said, yeah, he was on my bus for seven hours.
19:10Karen and John, absolutely delighted with that information.
19:16It gives them hope.
19:18Karen Labies told me that Darren Vickers
19:20was going to come back the next day.
19:22I spoke to the SIO and said, what would you like me to do?
19:27He said, get as much information off this man as you can.
19:39I got to the house at half 11 in the morning at 12 o'clock.
19:45Darren Vickers walked in.
19:47He was about five foot seven, medium build.
19:53He was renting a terraced house round the corner
19:57from the Labies family.
19:59He lived there with his wife and two small children.
20:01He said he'd worked on the buses around a month.
20:05He said that Jamie Labies got onto his bus,
20:10Ashton Hall Road, near to QuickSave Supermarket,
20:15and that he drove him to Ashton.
20:19And he remembers him because he was only small.
20:22He said he then got off the bus at Ashton bus station.
20:27And that's where the bus turned round
20:29and then he said he didn't see him after that.
20:31So I recorded his details, told him I'd be in touch.
20:37Darren Vickers was visiting the family home
20:39two or three times a week.
20:40And as the investigation progressed, it increased.
20:45He was there most days.
20:47He was there every day.
20:48There wasn't a day where he wasn't there.
20:50Vickers was in and out of the house, always out,
20:54searching for Jamie, taking the family with him.
20:57Harold was telling me where they were going
20:59and what locations they'd been visiting.
21:02Thought he was giving us some information we needed.
21:06But my daughters, my two daughters,
21:09they had a feeling something wasn't right.
21:14Family became so close to Darren Vickers
21:17that, you know, he'd turn up, he'd have dinners with them.
21:21Sometimes he'd have, you know, cups of tea with them.
21:24I mean, they just loved him.
21:26He was like a hero to them.
21:28That became a real challenge.
21:30I know for the family liaison officers
21:32who were working with the family to deal with.
21:35I felt let down that they trusted this stranger more than me.
21:40I just kept on watching Darren Vickers.
21:43I wanted to know where he was going
21:45and the reasons for where he was going.
21:47It wasn't just one thing that Vickers was doing.
21:50It was a multitude of things
21:52that was attracting our attention.
21:55Get any respect.
21:56Just hand him over to the nearest police station.
21:58Just let the child go in.
21:59Just let him come home.
22:01He's not in trouble.
22:02It's not nothing.
22:03He's just wanted.
22:04Including the press releases that he was given,
22:07the press interviews he was given
22:09without any notice to us.
22:12And, of course, the press doing the job.
22:14They loved it.
22:15But it wasn't helping the investigation.
22:18Somebody somewhere knows where Jamie is.
22:20He was always trying to control our investigation
22:23and the press.
22:25And he was certainly controlling the family.
22:28Well, my dad wasn't very comfortable with him.
22:31My mum, she was trying to be nice like she is
22:35and making me sure that he was to thank him
22:38for what he was doing with us.
22:40I felt that Darren Vickers was manipulating the Lavis family.
22:44He was using them to gather this information
22:47for his own purpose.
22:48And I told Roy Rainford my thoughts.
22:52I said, I think he's number one suspect, sir.
22:58That's really his motive.
23:00Well, how could it be me?
23:02How could it be me involved in this
23:05when I'm trying to help the family?
23:07I'm the hero.
23:08It's not me.
23:18I've got nothing to do with the abduction of James Lavis.
23:21And I've got the backing of the Lavis family,
23:23relations, everybody.
23:27Darren Vickers became our prime suspect.
23:32He was arrested on the 27th of May.
23:34And we interviewed him over a period of about two days.
23:40We looked back when he first got arrested and think,
23:44why didn't we think like the police thought?
23:47You don't.
23:48You don't think like that.
23:50Any help when you've lost a child, you'll accept it.
23:53He told us that Jamie had been on his bus
23:57up and down the arterial road
23:59from Ashton Underline to Piccadilly and back again.
24:03I was coming back from Manchester
24:04and I said to him that I'm going to have to
24:07drop you back off now because this is my last turn off.
24:10But he was adamant that he dropped him off
24:12at the bus stop near to his home in Openshaw
24:16that same day.
24:18He then clarified.
24:20He just got frightened that he was going to become involved
24:23in the inquiry as some sort of suspect that we did believe
24:29that he had something to do with Jamie going missing.
24:34They call it the policeman's nose or whatever.
24:37They just have that feeling that he's not telling the truth.
24:41We didn't have enough evidence to bring charges,
24:45so we released him back into the arms of John and Karen.
24:50And they threw a party for him.
24:54And we were vilified within the press for arresting the wrong person.
25:00But we were getting stronger and stronger suspicions
25:03that he had something to do with Jamie's disappearance.
25:07We never, throughout the inquiry, relieved Assif
25:12from his duties as a floor.
25:15Assif was always, as far as I was concerned,
25:20at the centre because he knew the family,
25:22he'd got some sort of liaison with the family,
25:26even though they were not happy at that time
25:29with the police investigation.
25:33Yes, he was still a missing from home inquiry,
25:36but more and more we were leaning towards
25:39whether they were going to get this child back alive.
25:47Darren Vickers arranged with Karen Lavis and John
25:50to move into the house.
25:52I thought it was astonishing.
25:55How weird for a grown man to leave his wife and two children,
25:59move in with another family round the corner.
26:03I was concerned.
26:07We moved him into our house because we thought he was a friend.
26:10It changed my role because they didn't want my support as much.
26:16Darren Vickers had now taken over control of the searches.
26:19And the children and John and Karen found him more important
26:25at that time, which made it difficult.
26:27I tried to stay professional at all times
26:30so they could see I'm a strong person.
26:33Around June 1997, John and Karen were expecting another baby.
26:39And in fact, they asked Darren Vickers,
26:41would he be the godfather?
26:43It just showed how much he'd manipulated that family
26:46into trusting him.
26:48I didn't tell Karen and John that I suspected Darren Vickers
26:52had been involved with the disappearance of their son
26:54because I didn't want to upset them or frighten them
26:58or their children.
26:59And I just kept on watching what Darren Vickers was doing.
27:03One of the younger members of the team suggested to us
27:07that Darren Vickers had a number of outstanding warrants
27:11on driving offences.
27:13I instructed him to find out where he was and arrest him on those warrants.
27:18He went to prison, I believe, for ten weeks, which assisted our investigation.
27:23It put him out of circulation so he couldn't interfere within the family
27:30and couldn't interfere with our investigation, try and manipulate the press.
27:39A friend of Darren Vickers informed us that Darren had told him
27:47that he hadn't dropped Jamie off at the bus stop near to Jamie's home
27:52on that day of the 5th of May.
27:57Darren Vickers had, in fact, taken Jamie on the bus
28:02back to the bus depot Hyde.
28:06He'd then put Jamie in his own car
28:10and then taken him back to Openshaw
28:13and dropped him off near his home address.
28:19So, again, that pointed us in the direction
28:24that Darren Vickers wasn't telling us the whole truth.
28:41The family were concerned that we couldn't find Jamie.
28:46They were coming to suspect Vickers wasn't the champion
28:52that they believed him to be.
28:56Asifa saying, Jessica said,
28:57Karen, please, just listen to us.
28:59Don't say anything around Darren Vickers.
29:03Always keep your phone where we can get to you.
29:07Keep it plugged in.
29:10And I said, right, no problem.
29:12We're heading deeper and deeper into this
29:14and it's becoming more and more apparent
29:18that we're not going to find the boy alive.
29:22When I first went in for the role as FLO,
29:25the SIO, Senior Investigation Officer,
29:27said it shouldn't be for too long
29:30because I thought we'd find Jamie safe and well
29:33within a very short period of time.
29:36We've still got other lines of enquiry running.
29:38On the major line of enquiry was what was happening
29:42when Darren Vickers was driving his bus.
29:45They were able to go back and recover footage
29:49from the bus station where the bus had been
29:53to look for witnesses who'd been on the bus.
29:56They were all giving us the same picture.
29:58Jamie was being allowed to run
30:02fair a lot on that bus.
30:03They believed that the bus driver was his father.
30:08The way he was allowed to count money,
30:10he was allowed to squeeze into the driver's cab
30:14and at the side of the driver while he's driving the bus.
30:19We'd even got a bus driver who worked at the same firm
30:23and informed us that he'd seen this young lad
30:27at the side of Darren Vickers
30:29and said the boy should never have been in that position.
30:33It led us then to believe his grooming, at that stage, Jamie.
30:39Confirmation we got of Jamie on CCTV
30:42was at Ashton bus station where he was talking
30:46on the 5th of May, the day he went missing,
30:49to Darren Vickers, the bus driver.
30:59Two young children were approached by Vickers
31:03to come and look for Jamie,
31:05who he then was still insisting that was missing from home.
31:09They were playing in an area at the side of the River Tame
31:14and Darren Vickers showed them a photograph of Jamie
31:18and said he was looking for this missing boy.
31:22He pointed and said,
31:23oh, look, I've seen him up in that area
31:25and he was pointing to an area up in Reddish Vale
31:27and then said to them, oh, look, he's there.
31:30In fact, he was trying to get them to go into the undergrowth there,
31:34the jungle there.
31:37These two young people knew something wasn't right
31:40and they'd run off.
31:41But they luckily told the parents.
31:45They allowed us to speak to the children.
31:47So that gave us another area to search for Jamie.
31:53A number of Darren Vickers family members give us alibi
31:57to say that Darren Vickers was a different part of Greater Manchester
32:02than were we suspected the area that he killed Jamie Lovis.
32:09The city was at his mother's, this was untrue.
32:12We started to disprove the alibi
32:14and eventually finished up charging a number of them
32:18with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
32:21Now we've got enough evidence to charge him.
32:25His attitude on the bus and allowing Jamie to run feral on that bus
32:31gave us enough evidence, circumstantial evidence,
32:35to charge him with abduction,
32:38which doesn't mean that you have to grip the child and take him away.
32:43It's all to do without controlling the child.
32:46On the 14th of October,
32:49we arrested Darren Vickers
32:51for the offence of child abduction.
32:54And he was remanded in custody.
32:58We didn't know why he'd been arrested
33:00and what he'd been arrested for.
33:01We just knew that Darren Vickers had been arrested.
33:04Jamie still wasn't being found.
33:05Jamie was obviously still missing.
33:20I remember that we were going to take further advice
33:24about possibility of considering a murder case without a body.
33:31My memory tells me that there'd been one case
33:34where there'd been a potential prosecution for a murder
33:37without a body.
33:38And so it's incredibly difficult,
33:42but it wasn't long after that
33:44the remains of Jamie were found in Reddish Vale.
33:50I remember that from a prosecution perspective
33:52that changed things completely
33:54because all of a sudden we could now prove
33:56that in fact this child was dead.
34:04A call came in that remains had been found along with clothing
34:09identified as that belonging to Jamie Lavis.
34:13Because we had a suspect in custody,
34:15I wasn't concerned for the family welfare
34:18as the danger side of it from Vickers.
34:20I was concerned for their welfare in a mental capacity
34:23and the distressful situation they were now under.
34:27I offered them advice on victim support,
34:30counselling for the children if they needed it
34:32and if they needed to speak to me at any time,
34:35I was always available to support them for that.
34:40We interviewed him again.
34:41He said initially it was an accident.
34:44He'd had Jamie on his bus, he'd stamped on the brakes
34:47when he was taking him back up to hide
34:50and that Jamie was stood up
34:52and he was knocked to the floor
34:54and he banged his head and he panicked.
34:57We could disprove that.
34:59The bus was examined, there was no damage.
35:01It was obviously false.
35:03We knew that that was not the case.
35:06We never found a skull of Jamie.
35:10He just said his remains, it was his jawbone.
35:13When we'd found the jawbone,
35:14because of the weather and the way that the jawbone
35:19had been exposed to the elements,
35:21they had grave difficulty in extracting the DNA
35:26and it took till the 23rd of February 1998
35:32before we got that final confirmation.
35:37Definite positive proof that it was Jamie Lavis.
35:42The cause of death could not be ascertained at that time
35:47because of the state of the remains.
35:50So we just had to carry on without that information.
35:56We were able to now gather everything in
35:59and present the case.
36:01Evidence that came to light during the course of the investigation
36:05included the interviews with the police, CCTV and then forensics.
36:11Mr. Rainford and the team and the Crown Prosecution Service
36:15all examined all the documents and everything
36:17and decided that there was enough to charge Darren Vickers
36:21with the abduction and murder of Jamie Lavis.
36:27On the 19th of June, 1998, poor little Jamie Lavis was put to rest.
36:35I'd been with that family for at least eight months.
36:39This was the first time I've ever attended a victim's funeral
36:43in 30 years police service.
36:48The small coffin coming towards me.
36:51I felt genuine sadness that poor little boy had lost his life
36:55at such a young age.
36:57What I can remember of the funeral is not very much.
37:01I blocked it out because I don't want it to be real.
37:05My mum didn't even realise it was Jamie.
37:08She kept saying, it's not Jamie, it's a thief.
37:10It was reassuring our minds, saying that we'll get through it together.
37:14We'll all be there together.
37:16The funeral was massive.
37:18The streets were lined going up to the church.
37:22I've never done it before, but I started writing poetry.
37:24One of the poems was read out.
37:27I think it was my oldest daughter what read it out for me.
37:31I'm not sure.
37:48The trial of Darren Vickers began on the 2nd of March, 1999.
37:53It was a feeding frenzy for the press.
37:57Not only did it go national, it went international.
38:01You're always nervous because you want the trial to go well.
38:05I didn't understand what a trial was at that age, obviously,
38:09but then a thief made us understand what was going on
38:12and why this was happening to get justice for us and stuff like that.
38:16I would attend court with them, pick them up every day,
38:19make sure they got there on time
38:21and took them into a witness protection office
38:25which keeps them away from Darren Vickers' family and friends.
38:29I was trying to be strong for my mum.
38:32My mum was worse than my dad.
38:34She was that upset and distraught,
38:35wondering why he'd done it to my brother.
38:38We wouldn't have even got through the trial the way we were
38:41without a thief or, to be fair, without any of the police officers.
38:45They were posed various questions, some which were difficult.
38:49I must have been on the stand for two days.
38:52It was like I was guilty of things they were saying to me.
38:56But I remember me being accused of sleeping with Darren Vickers.
39:03They said, no, no, no. He was tricking us.
39:06John Lavish was accused by Darren Vickers
39:09that he was responsible for the murder of Jamie,
39:13which was absolute nonsense.
39:14The main thrust came from Vickers who said it was everybody except him.
39:19They've gone through hell.
39:20They've gone through hell by losing the child
39:22and then through being lambasted and lied about in open court.
39:26I was very proud of the family when they gave evidence.
39:30They gave it clear and concise.
39:32I spoke to Karen and John and said,
39:34listen, everything that's been said has been perfect.
39:39As the prosecutor, you don't present the case.
39:41You're handing that over to the barristers
39:43who are going to present the case for you.
39:48Jamie Lavish was on that bus for most of the day.
39:54And I think that Darren Vickers was supplying him with sweets.
39:59He was letting him play around with the gear stick
40:03while the bus was moving.
40:04He planned it to keep Jamie on that bus until it got dark,
40:11knowing that Jamie was scared of the dark.
40:14He then offered to give Jamie a lift home in his own car
40:18after he parked the bus at the bus depot.
40:22Jamie said, why are you going there?
40:24I live down there.
40:25He said, I've just got to do something.
40:27This is what I think has been going on.
40:29And when he gets to the golf club,
40:31him and Jamie walk across the golf course
40:35and he would probably have picked a golf ball up,
40:38as a child does, and popped it in his pocket.
40:41They get to the forest area and Jamie's scared.
40:46And then Darren Vickers starts to sexually assault him.
40:50He strangled him to death and left him.
40:53His motive was sexual gratification.
40:59That little boy must have gone through hell.
41:06I found out in court that he was abducted,
41:10sexually assaulted, murdered and dismembered.
41:15Going through what my Jamie went through.
41:18He had his own children.
41:20Why do it?
41:22He's got to be sick.
41:24When the jury went out,
41:26part of me thought he was going to get away with it.
41:37The family's there in the courtroom on the day of the verdict.
41:41And Vickers is brought up, was packed out.
41:45There was press outside, television cameras, radio.
41:49This tense atmosphere.
41:50There's always a tense atmosphere.
41:51When the jury said we find him guilty,
41:56it was just elation.
41:58We got found guilty.
41:59It was like whole new relief.
42:03There's an audible gasp from the family,
42:06from people in the public gallery.
42:08And it's like a release.
42:13I looked towards them and smiled.
42:16I said, justice has been done.
42:18Part of us felt happy because we knew we were safe, for one.
42:21And part of us felt like obviously we had to understand then
42:26that Jamie wasn't coming back.
42:27They just made us all reassured and that it was all over now
42:31and we can put Jamie to rest.
42:33Mr Justice Forbes gave the sentence as life imprisonment, murder,
42:38with a minimum of 25 years.
42:41Absolutely delighted with that sentence.
42:4525 years without parole.
42:47That means no matter how well behaved he is,
42:50his sentence wouldn't be reduced.
42:52And then there is a huge sense of relief
42:56that you know you've done your job.
42:59I just want him kept inside.
43:01That's my wish. I want him kept inside.
43:04I'll know then he's never going to get out and hurt anyone,
43:07anybody else's family.
43:19This case will stay with me the most because I have never
43:25dealt with such a case that the murderer
43:30of a young child moves in with the family
43:34and tries to take control
43:37and steal the limelight, if you like.
43:40Never seen anything like it.
43:42It impacted on me personally
43:45because it made me sad because I cared
43:50and I wasn't able to help them find their son alive.
43:54And I'll never forget any of the family.
44:01I'm with my mum today,
44:03hopefully to see, I see him again.
44:07My mum's been diagnosed with cancer.
44:09My mum can't talk, I have to be a voice.
44:16I'm with my mum.
44:19How are you?
44:21How are you doing?
44:23How are you?
44:27Come and join me.
44:29How are you?
44:31Getting there?
44:32Yeah, getting there to be honest.
44:34You've never changed though, have you?
44:36Nothing?
44:36No.
44:37Oh, never changed.
44:40When I first came to the house as the FLO,
44:42I told you I was a family liaison officer
44:44and I was going to support your family
44:46throughout the whole of the inquiry.
44:49How did that make you feel?
44:52Well, I was anxious and shy at first,
44:54but then we got used to you being there
44:56and we felt safe and secure with you being around us.
45:00Good. It's because I cared for you.
45:02All of you.
45:04This is from us all.
45:05These are my mum's words.
45:08I see if we are very appreciative
45:09for everything you have done over the years as a family.
45:13Thank you for everything you have done.
45:15All for us getting justice for Jamie.
45:19We'll always be an uncle to us.
45:21I see lots of love from Jane, Karen, Scott and Derek.
45:25That definitely deserves a hug.
45:29Thanks, Mum.
45:30Thank you for that lovely card and lovely word.
45:33Thank you, Karen.
45:34Ah, thank you.
45:43After ten years, I'm really, really proud
45:46and really, really pleased
45:49to see you doing well.
45:51Thank you
45:53for letting me see you again.
45:55And I'll always remember your family.
46:03I'm really proud that I was part of that investigation team
46:07and honoured to have met the family of Jamie Lavis.
46:12Yes.
46:24And I'll see you again.
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