- 17 hours ago
A breakthrough in forensic technology breathes new life into the case of a Gwinnett County man stabbed in his home 5 years ago.
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00:05this program documents actual homicide investigations criminal charges are
00:10often dropped or reduced and all suspects shown are presumed innocent unless proven guilty
00:24a quiet afternoon in lawrenceville georgia
00:30a woman finds her brother on the floor of his home dead and calls 9-1-1
00:52on the wall
01:07it looks like where he may have hit it and then fallen over you know
01:13i'll check him out the medical examiner's office will conduct an autopsy
01:17to determine cause of death
01:19you want me to call sergeant rickner tell me no
01:27this is corporate york
01:31thank you when they did the autopsy they actually noticed some of the wounds in the area of the neck
01:39dr terry says she's gonna deem it a homicide
01:51for homicide detectives
01:54their chance of solving a murder is cut in half if they don't get a lead within the first 48
02:01hours
02:06due to the fact that this happened over the weekend we're gonna pull in other members
02:10of the unit because i'm behind the eight ball and got a little catch up to do
02:31the other person who's in the middle of the night
02:44He had a daughter and three sons.
02:48Recently diagnosed with cirrhosis of the liver,
02:51Ray had been relying on help from friends and family for day-to-day tasks.
02:58This guy's got 47 stab wounds.
03:01He's got two to the back, one on the neck, one to the left shoulder.
03:05One actually goes through and through,
03:07but all the wounds are two and a half to three inches deep.
03:11It's personal, I mean, stabbing him like that.
03:14What uniform got when they went out on a Friday evening?
03:17His sister picks him up at the Chevron on Langley Drive around 4 p.m.,
03:22brings him back to the address on Lexington.
03:25Saturday morning, his sister,
03:27they go inside and find him obviously face down next to the bed,
03:31and his body is covered up with two blankets.
03:34Like, intentionally covered up?
03:36Probably.
03:37And then they call police out.
03:40There was no bloody knife in the bedroom.
03:44There was a knife on the TV stand, but it was clean.
03:50Maybe he was face down, stabbed him in the back.
03:52I don't know.
03:54The family took the guy's phone,
03:56so they started going through the phone themselves.
03:59There are a few calls around, like, 5.19 a.m.
04:03Hagwood's working on getting the phones downloaded.
04:05I'm doing the search warrant.
04:07Focus on the scene, then redo the scene,
04:10and we'll get all your stuff there,
04:11and then interview your people later.
04:14At this stage in the game,
04:15we're going to do another secondary search warrant out of the house.
04:18I want to do some additional fingerprint.
04:21I'm going to do some blue star.
04:23You comfortable with the sister?
04:25She's going to meet me out of the house anyways.
04:36This guy, as old as he is,
04:38I'm just wondering if he's established himself in the community
04:41to where we might get some tips.
04:44Once people learn that, you know, it's a homicide,
04:47people may know who he hangs out with.
04:49I believe that right now,
04:51whoever stabbed our victim, it was personal.
04:54It's just a matter of figuring out who he was with
04:56or who would have had a beef with him.
05:06Walk through, and then I'll go talk to the sister.
05:10He was dead next to the bed.
05:14He did not have a wallet or ID card,
05:16no cash, nothing.
05:19I mean, that's blood, right?
05:21Yeah, that works.
05:23Blood evidence in the bathroom.
05:26The light plate.
05:29Let's pull that light switch and process that.
05:33Branch detail, maybe four fingerprints.
05:36And then blue star.
05:38The bedroom, the hallway, and the bathroom.
05:41I'm going to go out there.
05:50Hey, I'm sorry to Bobby.
05:51You live here?
05:52Yeah.
05:53We're investigating a homicide over here.
05:56Friday into Saturday?
05:57Uh-huh.
05:57Did you notice anything suspicious?
06:00There's so much traffic being in and out that place.
06:03I don't know what be going on, sir.
06:04Okay.
06:05You know, like, it's just me and my son live here.
06:07Right, right.
06:07And I mind my own business.
06:10How long does it pick one more thing around?
06:12It's not very, very long.
06:15You know, I just noticed, like, cars come, leave, come.
06:19Okay.
06:20Two, three minutes leave, go in, come out the house.
06:24Okay.
06:25You know, all the way up to, like, sometime 1230, 1 o'clock in the morning.
06:30Okay.
06:31I hope you find out what's going on, okay, because that's pretty close to my house.
06:36Yeah, we're going to do everything within our means to figure out what happened.
06:47I believe there's drug activity going on in this house, okay?
06:50I'll just put it out on the table.
06:53I'm going to talk to the sister.
06:56All right, Ms. Smalls, can you entertain me for a little bit?
06:58Okay.
07:04My name's Corporal York, and I'm sorry for whatever occurred.
07:07We're going to do everything we can to, you know, answer the question that you guys had.
07:12Can you just kind of tell me as events go?
07:15So, let me go back to Friday.
07:17He had been drinking.
07:20Did your brother have a problem drinking, or was that...
07:23Just last six months, he was going back and forth to the doctor.
07:26Something about the doctor told me he was, like, borderline having cirrhosis of the liver,
07:30and he need to stop drinking.
07:32Okay.
07:33Well, he was drinking beer.
07:35I brought him home.
07:38It was about 5.30 or so.
07:40And I told him, I said, don't leave this house no more today.
07:45He's okay, bye.
07:46And I locked the door and closed it.
07:48Okay.
07:49That was the last I seen out of him.
07:53Is there anyone else you can think of that would have any reason to want to harm your brother?
07:59That's just it.
08:00I don't know who would want to hurt him.
08:05Whoever knew that he always had cash money on it?
08:09How much does he normally keep it?
08:11I'm sure he had a couple hundred dollars.
08:14Because we looked for it, and there was no money in there.
08:19They took his money, because he always had money, and he had dope.
08:25What's that?
08:26What kind of...
08:26Crack.
08:27Okay.
08:27Okay.
08:29He's a little nickel and dime kind of guy.
08:33So he have a couple little rocks that he sell.
08:36That's enough to get by and pay the bills.
08:39I feel like there's somebody that he knew.
08:42He's not the type of person that just let anybody in.
08:45So he knew who he was.
08:48And whoever he was locked the door and came out.
08:53You might want to talk to it over here.
08:55She gives the name of a friend of Ray's, who had been staying with him until a few days ago.
09:01He had spent the night Wednesday night.
09:03He might be able to tell you a lot more than I can do, because he might be on the
09:08end scale of that side of him.
09:11Do you have a phone number for him?
09:13I can get a phone number.
09:17Uh-huh.
09:24There may be some missing money.
09:26There may be some missing drugs.
09:31But, I mean, the manner of attack, and it's personal.
09:35It's extremely personal.
09:38Corporal Dallas York calls the man who had been staying with Ray.
09:44Hey, good evening.
09:44My name is Corporal York at the Grand Canyon Police Department.
09:47Yeah.
09:48I was wanting to see if you could meet with me.
09:51I just want to talk to you in reference to an individual named Ray Neal.
09:56Where are you talking?
09:58What's convenient for you, sir?
10:01Tomorrow.
10:02Yeah, that's fine.
10:04Okay, thank you.
10:05All right, thanks, everybody.
10:07And all in all, I think we're still in a pretty decent position, given the fact we had such a
10:14delayed start.
10:15So we'll see what it foretells.
10:18We'll go at it in the morning.
10:31I want to look at the blue star.
10:34York pulls up crime scene photos from Ray's house.
10:38Blue star is a chemical that makes valiant content and blood.
10:42It'll show up bright blue when the lights are turned off.
10:48There's the blue star coming out.
10:51Yeah, definitely showing.
10:56That's the blue star coming out.
10:59Look at that.
11:00With your naked eye, you couldn't tell a majority of that, especially on the sink.
11:06Look at this.
11:07Oh, no kidding.
11:09On the washing machine.
11:11Now, that's interesting.
11:13Zoom into the washing machine.
11:17That's a significant amount.
11:21There was clothes in it.
11:24There's a pillow in there.
11:27There's a pillow in there.
11:27Oh, that's interesting.
11:28I can pull that out on his back.
11:35Oh, yes, folks.
11:57Look at all the drops.
12:00Oh, it's smokes.
12:02So it was probably dripping off the knife and dripping off his hands.
12:08There's this print, remember?
12:10Yeah.
12:11And we took that, so maybe they can print that thing.
12:21Our victim's friend.
12:23He was evidently staying with the victim.
12:27See what he's got to say.
12:30All right.
12:31You might have a C right here, please.
12:32Mr. How are you?
12:34Hey, I'm Corporal Allen.
12:36Great.
12:38So how do you know him?
12:39My whole life, well, I'm just reset together.
12:42Oh, good.
12:42I don't know if those kids played in their backyard.
12:47Normally about every other day, I'll go over there.
12:51I'll call him and tell him I'm coming.
12:52He might need to go pay his water bill or go get money order for us.
12:58We might want me to go grab some beer or something like that.
13:02When's the last time you stayed over there?
13:05Thursday night and Friday morning.
13:08That's where my wife said we're kind of like going through something right now.
13:11I'm just all been standing there with friends.
13:13It was getting to be daylight.
13:15And I told him, I said, I've got some things I've got to do or something.
13:18I'll go ahead and leave.
13:19He said, all right.
13:20I said, but call me at home if you need me.
13:23And that's the last time I talked to him.
13:28What about as far as his whatever money he had?
13:32I don't know about that.
13:33He never put money in his body.
13:36When we went in the store, he would always put his money out of the right pocket.
13:40Seem like he would just always put his money in the right pocket.
13:44How much money do you typically see him with?
13:47A few hundred?
13:48Nah, I can't tell you.
13:51So do you know where Greg's getting that money from?
13:55I don't know.
13:57Do you know him to use crack cocaine?
13:59Back years and years and years ago, we had put a hang of seniority high up other than drinking in
14:06years.
14:07I'm talking years.
14:09Like either in the past or currently, do you ever use crack?
14:12No, I used to, I used to, done every drug in this book.
14:17You know what I'm saying?
14:18Yeah.
14:19I got kids and grandkids now.
14:22Let me have you tell them.
14:24It's going to be sort of bolts on them.
14:26But did, did you have anything to do with this?
14:30Hell no.
14:31I would never hurt Ray.
14:35You mind just giving me a sample of your DNA?
14:38Sure.
14:38Yeah.
14:40I mean, I ain't got no problem doing that because I, I wasn't there.
14:44I didn't do this to Ray.
14:46I wouldn't hurt Ray ever.
14:48You know what I'm saying?
14:52I mean, he's got no injuries.
14:53He gave us his DNA, his fingerprints.
14:56We've got a lot of that type of evidence at the scene.
15:00We need to eliminate him.
15:02Prints are in blood on the sink.
15:05How many prints of value did you get last night?
15:10The fingerprints on the light switch and sink do not have enough detail to make a comparison.
15:15The DNA and stuff, that's going to take, what, four or five months to get back?
15:30As the clock winds down.
15:33I thought we'd be a little bit further.
15:35At least someone kind of pushed us in the direction that I feel we need to go.
15:41Somebody had something out for him.
15:42We just got to figure out who it was.
15:44I just think it was a she.
15:46Um, it just seems more like a female thing to stab somebody in the neck like that and then clean
15:51up immediately in the bathroom right outside the bedroom.
15:57Guys would have had it done.
15:58The knife is personal.
16:00Like, they came over there, she saw him sitting there and she just couldn't take it no more.
16:03She grabbed a knife.
16:05And what's the motive?
16:07God, they got to be angry at him.
16:09And as that were, if they're in cocaine psychosis, you can do a lot of crazy stuff in cocaine psychosis.
16:15I hope that blood on the sink is your purpose.
16:17Yeah.
16:18There's no way that's that good with a knife in order to do that much damage and not have a
16:24single cut on him.
16:27Have we seen anything on the phone yet?
16:31There's not a lot of content in it.
16:34Trying to identify some of these individuals that our victim was talking to on his phone records.
16:42Is this one on there taboo?
16:48Lou, and sent a message about needs $60.
16:52Lou was the last cop.
16:57I'm going to phone my word, see if I can associate it with a person.
17:05Carmen Hunt.
17:19I'd like to bring her in.
17:25Kind of get another feeler interview, you know, and obviously look for any lacerations.
17:33Yes, this is Copeland York County Police Department, trying to reach Carmen Hunt.
17:37It's in reference to an investigation involving a subject named Ray Neal.
17:42If you would give me a call back, I would appreciate it.
18:03Boo's trying to call.
18:06Corporal York, Doretti County Police Department.
18:09This is his call, man.
18:10Are you familiar with Ray-Bone?
18:14No, I don't know anybody about Ray-Bone.
18:17Okay, let me ask you.
18:18The reason I'm calling is your phone number is coming up in his call records.
18:23Uh-huh.
18:24And I'd like to meet with you and show you this guy's picture, see where he knows you from.
18:30Is that a possibility?
18:33No, that's fine.
18:35Do you want to come to me or do you want me to come out to you?
18:38You can come to me.
18:39Okay.
18:41Am I in trouble?
18:43No, ma'am.
18:44I just, like I said, you're going to come up in the phone records and I've got to figure out
18:47where this guy knows you from.
18:49Thank you, ma'am.
19:00That coming over here?
19:01That's her.
19:04Carmen arrives with her girlfriend.
19:09Hey, Ms. Carmen, I appreciate you meeting with me.
19:11I'm York.
19:14I'm working that homicide investigation, okay?
19:17And basically, one of the phones that we downloaded had you as a contact and the number.
19:23Ray Neal.
19:24No, sir.
19:24It goes by Ray, Bone, Ray Bones.
19:26I do not know my body by me.
19:30Who's that dude?
19:33He's that one.
19:35You know, sometimes I go check on him and he might have me wash his clothes or cook him something
19:41because I cook.
19:42I always liked him.
19:46Okay, let me show you just to confirm.
19:50Is this your number?
19:52That's my number.
19:54And what was the point of that?
19:57I took him some food.
19:59Did you go in the house?
20:00I did.
20:01I was there for like 15 minutes.
20:03I would straighten that up for him.
20:05That's what I used to do for him.
20:06Did you do, do you remember doing any laundry or anything while you were over there?
20:11Yeah, I think he had to do a set of, he wanted some towels, whatever was in that basket.
20:16He wanted that wash.
20:19There was a text message that you sent him Friday evening.
20:23Basically saying he needed $60.
20:25What was with that?
20:26He was supposed to let me borrow some money.
20:29I know this guy is a crack dealer, okay?
20:32That's confirmed.
20:35Can I ask you something too?
20:36I'm not trying to offend you or anything.
20:38It just sort of helps with the investigation.
20:40When's the last time you used crack?
20:42It's been a little while.
20:46I'm going to ask you what happened.
20:49He's dead.
20:52Somebody killed him.
20:54How did he die though?
20:56He was stabbed.
21:00You know why they killed him?
21:02That's what we're trying to figure out.
21:06Obviously this is emotional for him.
21:11He didn't do nothing to nobody.
21:17So when you went over there, did you notice any blood?
21:20No.
21:22What was that call about?
21:24They ask about her last phone call with Ray.
21:28I called him back and I told him I was coming and I never went back.
21:31He wanted me to bring him some more beer.
21:33And she started tripping.
21:35She said we weren't going back over there.
21:37She says her girlfriend refused to take her back to Ray's house that night.
21:42So you weren't in Lawrenceville at that time?
21:44No.
21:46I swear I was not in Lawrenceville.
21:48I was with her.
21:49If you want to ask her and talk to her, you can.
21:52Do you want to step over there and ask her?
22:14Give us some clarification on the day?
22:16She said it was Friday.
22:17Okay.
22:18She said you guys were there.
22:20Seems like a really nice lady.
22:25She tries to keep me straight because I'm not a bad person.
22:28I got an education.
22:29I work hard.
22:30I work basically every single day.
22:32Okay.
22:33I'm not out here taking or doing something for people.
22:37Okay.
22:37Like I work.
22:38Right.
22:38And I work hard every single day.
22:41Sounds like she's a good person to have around.
22:43She is.
22:45She is.
22:47Did you hurt your hand there?
22:48Your right hand?
22:49Yes.
22:50Yeah.
22:50Yeah, it's a burn.
22:52It's a burn?
22:53Yeah.
22:53Oh, when did that happen?
22:55About maybe a week and a half.
22:58Would you be okay with me?
23:00They asked Carmen to submit DNA and fingerprints.
23:04Okay.
23:11I appreciate you calling me back.
23:13Bye, guys.
23:14Thank you, ma'am.
23:18Probably a good chance that Carmen was the last one that he saw that wasn't killing him.
23:23I tend to believe her, man.
23:26Yeah, I do.
23:27But I didn't get a bad vibe of her.
23:29I think we could probably write her off.
23:32And the friend's very calm and of a very sane mind, it appears.
23:37We need help from people that know him.
23:46I'm basically just making contact with every person that's ever made contact with your dad
23:49within the last two, three months.
23:52And then your dad didn't have any peace with anybody.
23:54I don't know.
23:55I don't know what I am.
23:57Have you guys kind of heard anything?
23:59The reason I've seen it was a girl that knocked around where we're from.
24:04She was locked up months before all this went down.
24:08I mean, what do you think?
24:10He's old, dude.
24:12Any of his people he may have saw it to would have had any reason to come back on him?
24:19I'm getting frustrated.
24:25Two years into the investigation.
24:29This case was transferring to the cold case unit.
24:33Sergeant Micah Hedwood is assigned as lead investigator.
24:37York did a ton of work on this case.
24:40He went to the crime scene multiple times.
24:42He interviewed probably 30 people.
24:45York obtained a lot of fingerprints and DNA, but they did not hit anything.
24:51You have to go into these cold cases like a jigsaw puzzle.
24:54And there's always a missing piece or two, and you're trying to figure out what those pieces look like.
24:58All the physical evidence, we've had it.
25:01We just don't know what to do with it.
25:03That's true with a lot of cold cases.
25:05You've got to figure out what to do with the pieces that you already have.
25:14Detectives continue to work the case for three more years.
25:23I got a call from a family member of Ray Neal.
25:29And this family member says, Carmen Hunt did it, and she did the same thing to somebody else.
25:35She's in jail right now for that.
25:38Carmen Hunt, she had stabbed a very low-level drug dealer in the back with a very large kitchen butcher
25:45knife.
25:46It's almost the same exact knife that was used on Ray Neal.
25:49The same circumstances, but the only thing that was different is the second victim was up on his feet and
25:56was able to get away.
25:58The victim of the second stabbing is one of Ray Neal's friends.
26:03She was, you know, on our list of people since the day it occurred.
26:08But right now we're going up to Hall County.
26:11We're going to try to find a woman.
26:12She was driving around Carmen Hunt the day Ray Neal was murdered.
26:17Hopefully she's not going to protect Carmen if she does know something.
26:28I'm Sergeant Hegwood.
26:31Hegwood finds the girlfriend.
26:33It was with Carmen the night Ray Neal was killed.
26:36This is Purple Quarter.
26:39Let me preface this with, I'm investigating homicide.
26:43This incident happened in 2019.
26:47When did you start to meet Carmen?
26:49And y'all were dating at the time, right?
26:51We started dating in 2019.
26:56The incident we're looking at is July 19th.
27:00He was talking about older gentlemen.
27:03Did you know the gentleman at all that passed away?
27:08I did not.
27:10On that day, me and her, I picked her up.
27:15So the older gentleman in the house we went to, she came back out.
27:21We went to the Chevron.
27:24She went into the bathroom.
27:25She had totally smoked up the whole stuff.
27:29So she was like, I need to go get more.
27:33So I was like, okay.
27:35So I took her back over there.
27:39And the next thing I know, she told me to pull over with a quick trip.
27:44She went into that bathroom.
27:47I was like, okay.
27:49I don't know what the hell is going on, but I'm done.
27:52And so at that point in time, I left her there.
27:58She says she didn't see Carmen again that night.
28:09She says four days later, after the media reported on Ray's death, Carmen had called her.
28:14She had called me with this crazy story about how she had been into a fight to try to attack
28:22her.
28:25When you saw the news and you saw Ray was killed, and like you knew you had already taken her
28:30over there twice that day, did you suspect anything?
28:34No, never did I think at that time that she did him like that.
28:41Did you ever just ask her if she knew what happened?
28:44I didn't want to know.
28:45I didn't ask.
28:47Well, I thank you for your time.
28:49You're welcome.
28:51I think that was good.
28:53It's good.
28:54It's not perfect.
28:55I wish she had seen some injuries or like sore after the murder.
28:59I would like for CSI to look at that print.
29:06Crime scene actually had a bloody print from the bathroom light switch.
29:12You can see the blood actually swipes, like somebody's trying to reach for the switch.
29:17But what you can't see from the naked eye is the print is actually right there.
29:23In 2019, they needed eight points within the print, you know, eight markers.
29:30Since then, as technology has gotten better, their techniques have gotten better.
29:36They've actually cut that number down, and now it's seven points.
29:41And now we do have two bloody prints from the crime scene that are comparable.
29:46And it does match two Carmen Hunts.
30:03They actually identify a Carmen Hunt, right ring finger, as the match.
30:09I'm going to transfer her over here to police headquarters to try and interview her.
30:13And I'm going to approach it as I'm interviewing everybody in this case, get a statement out of her, and
30:17then start confronting her.
30:27The next day, Carmen is brought from Gwinnett County Jail to headquarters.
30:33All right.
30:34Just to be clear, I'm not here about your criminal cases.
30:39I'm here because you were listed as a witness and friend for Ray Nill.
30:44This ain't no setup, right?
30:47Well, you were listed as a witness.
30:50Let's just kind of go backwards and let's just go over what you do know.
30:54And just for reference, you know, when he was killed, it was like July 19th or July 20th, 2019.
31:01The reason I tell you that day, because I kind of want to work backwards.
31:05When did you see him?
31:07I think I see him the day before the injunction.
31:13What major start are you doing?
31:15I was getting high with a friend, weed.
31:18I was smoking weed with a friend who was drinking.
31:20And it's just honestly not true.
31:21I never wanted to try crack.
31:23I'm not a person that's like, oh, I want to try this drug.
31:25It's new.
31:26We were smoking weed.
31:27I went to use a bathtub.
31:28But when I came back, I hit the bowl, the weed for the weed.
31:32And it had crack on it.
31:33And I remember how it made me feel.
31:35And it just took me, man.
31:37It took me, it took me fast.
31:39And about what age do you think you were when that happened?
31:43In my 30s.
31:45I'm 50 now.
31:47What all have you done in your past, in your lifetime, to get the crack?
31:52Oh, I don't do things.
31:54I don't have sex.
31:55I don't steal.
31:56And Ray's phone, you were actually texting him on July 19th.
32:00It was around 6.30 p.m.
32:02And you asked him for, you needed $60 was crack?
32:06Yes.
32:08Do you remember what you did when you went over there to Ray's?
32:13I just got the stuff in there.
32:16Because I think when you leave Ray's, you actually go to a gas station.
32:20Do you remember that?
32:22It was a long time ago, probably.
32:24And you went back to Ray's again, after the gas station.
32:29Okay.
32:30Except this time, you go to the quick trip.
32:34And I got stuck in the quick trip.
32:35And you went to the bathroom again.
32:38Yeah.
32:38Yeah, I remember.
32:40Okay.
32:42So that night, though, on July 19th, you actually called Ray again at 10.56 p.m., which is going
32:51to be after the quick trip.
32:53I didn't go back to his house after that.
32:55I don't think.
32:57You sure?
32:59I don't think I did.
33:02Carmen, here's my concern is I'm worried something happened on that third trip to Ray's
33:07with you.
33:10There's always two sides to every story.
33:12And I know Ray likes to drink, too, right?
33:15But I don't know what happened between you.
33:19I mean, nothing happened to me, right?
33:21Mm-hmm.
33:22No.
33:24Nothing happened to me and Ray.
33:26Well, so here's the deal.
33:29I've had my crime scene technicians go back, and they've been looking at prints.
33:34This is the light switch in Ray Neal's bathroom.
33:38It's right outside the door, and that's blood, okay?
33:42Ray Neal's blood.
33:44So here's the same picture, but this is using different lighting, and they've put powder on
33:50there, and when you zoom in, your print is right there in blood.
34:01I can't even tell you which vendor it is.
34:03That's how precise this is.
34:08So here's the deal, Carmen.
34:10I know you were there.
34:13I'm not watching your print in Ray Neal's blood.
34:17But this is your chance to tell me what actually happened?
34:22Explain it to me, because I can now put your print literally in Ray Neal's blood, which means
34:32you were there when he died.
34:36There's no way around that.
34:39Can you just tell me what you remember?
34:43Did he do something to you?
34:48You're trying to make me have sex with him.
34:52Everything I told you was the truth.
34:54It's just for that, so it's a shame.
34:56He was trying to have sex with you?
34:57I'm gay.
34:58Like, I've never been able to have sex with him.
35:01Okay.
35:02What was he demanding from you?
35:04He would tell me that I give him some
35:05and I said, you know I'm not going to do that.
35:08Okay.
35:10And he's like, he waited for me to take a hit, because he knows he started trying to
35:13fumble me.
35:15Very uncomfortable.
35:17Okay.
35:18He made me feel disgusted.
35:21And it enraged me.
35:24He was trying to get up under my shirt and go down my pants.
35:29I'm like, I'm not going to with you.
35:31He's like, I'm drunk.
35:32I'm tripping.
35:34And I said, you told me that I can chill here.
35:37I don't have anywhere to go.
35:40I know this is really uncomfortable.
35:42I'm so sorry.
35:43I'm so sorry.
35:43I just need to understand clearly what happened.
36:16He was grinding into me.
36:16And I basically, I owed him.
36:20When he was on top of me, I just stabbed him.
36:24Okay.
36:26Where did the knife come from?
36:28He had it on the dresser.
36:30Okay.
36:30Do you remember where you stabbed him?
36:33No, I just stabbed him.
36:35Well, how did he react?
36:37He was like, bitch, you stabbed me.
36:40And I was shocked.
36:42I was shocked.
36:43My eyes are big.
36:45He comes for me, and I just pushed him.
36:47Was he dead at that point already?
36:49I don't know.
36:49Oh.
36:50Was he on the bed, or did he fall on the floor?
36:53He fell on the floor.
36:55Okay.
36:56And I was just looking at him.
36:59And I couldn't look at him anymore than I did the cover on him.
37:02I was scared.
37:04Okay.
37:06After you left Ra's, where did you go?
37:09I went to the hotel room.
37:11I'm in Grazleton.
37:12Okay.
37:14I mean, it does sound like, you know, you're remorseful what happened.
37:17And I'm definitely going to tell everybody that you were honest with me.
37:21It's not right.
37:24I was in a bad situation.
37:25Like, if I didn't defend myself, I know what was going to happen.
37:31I couldn't let it happen to me.
37:34I don't think I could live myself.
37:37If that would have happened to me.
37:39If it went down the way you say, how come you didn't report it?
37:44I was scared.
37:44I was just scared.
37:45I was on drugs.
37:47I didn't think nobody would believe me.
37:50When you left, did you leave with the crack that you came for?
37:55Yeah, I had it, I think.
37:57You had it?
37:57Yeah.
37:58You remember how much it was?
37:59No.
38:01I do have to charge you with murder.
38:03Okay.
38:04And I understand, right now, in your mind, there's a self-defense issue going on.
38:11But I think that's something that I'm going to have to let the courts decide on.
38:15Do you understand that?
38:22I understand.
38:23Okay.
38:24Okay.
38:24All right.
38:25We'll be back in just a second, okay?
38:37When this case has come to the cold case unit, we never close them.
38:41They stay in this active state always.
38:44And we're always just waiting for that little spark that can lead us in a direction towards
38:50a suspect.
38:50And that's what happened in this case.
38:54I just needed that little piece to let me focus on one person.
39:00I had a feeling confronted with the fact she was probably going to at least change her story.
39:06The fingerprint really did its job.
39:09I showed the pictures instead of just telling her so she couldn't think I was bluffing.
39:14She came off of it pretty quickly after that.
39:16I think she had been carrying this weight on her for four or five years now.
39:23And not that she wanted to confess, but at the same time, I think it was a load off of
39:27her.
39:52That's his arm.
39:53He had this little blue hat that he used to wear.
39:56And he looked like Paddington one day.
39:58And so that name kind of stuck with him.
40:00So when he did pass away, we had a Paddington bear.
40:04And we took the hat off the bear.
40:05And we put it on here.
40:06And this is Paddington.
40:07And he sits up there.
40:09And he chills.
40:14That's him, his daughter, and both of his granddaughters.
40:19That was back in 2016.
40:24Yeah, you had to know him.
40:26He was an excellent chess player.
40:29He would go sometimes up to the courthouse
40:32and sit with the older men up there and play chess.
40:36I talked to him as a dad, I talked to a son
40:40and tried to tell him what to do, how to go about life and things.
40:45I loved him.
40:48He kept it strictly old school, loving, family man, you know.
40:54We always get together.
40:56It is here at my house.
40:57We're going to get together, have fun, laugh, love each other.
41:01Regardless of whether you hated each other two days ago,
41:03it's time to eat, it's time to ball, and it's time to have fun.
41:05Let's love it out.
41:07So, yes, that is what we did.
41:09It's not the same.
41:11It's not the same without Ray here.
41:14My uncle's not here to tell his story.
41:16My uncle didn't live to tell his story.
41:19My uncle didn't live to say anything.
41:22Someone went to my dad's house and killed her for no reason.
41:27Michelle was my mom, which was Ray's baby sister.
41:33Ray's sister, who found him in his home, died three years later.
41:38Their bond was just unbreakable.
41:40And my mother, I think, to be honest, my mother died slowly of a broken heart.
41:46She kind of blamed herself, because why did I take him home?
41:49I did, I shouldn't have took him home.
41:50Or what could I have done?
41:53Ray passing away in 2019.
41:55Then his mother passing away in 2022.
41:59And then six months later, his sister passed away in October of 22.
42:04You have to somehow or another find yourself to get through it.
42:12We ain't recovered.
42:14I know I struggle.
42:16My dad struggles.
42:17My brother struggles.
42:19Phil struggles.
42:21We all struggle on a daily basis.
42:26We're just grateful that, you know, it finally came to an end.
42:29It was five years waiting, just hoping that something would happen.
42:33And it happened and got some closure.
42:35So we're good.
42:39We're good.
42:40We're good.
42:41We're good.
42:42We're good.
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