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In an exclusive interview with India Today, Mehdi Hasan, Editor-in-Chief and CEO of Zeteo News, criticised the ongoing US-Israel military campaign against Iran as 'a completely unnecessary, unprovoked war of aggression'.
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00:00Okay, let's raise the big question once again tonight.
00:03Is Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu in particular driving this war now and Donald Trump simply
00:08tagging along?
00:10Is Donald Trump constantly changing the goalposts with no clear endgame in mind?
00:14Is war a weapon of mass distraction for Donald Trump from his domestic troubles?
00:50There aren't possibility of a building where the assembly to elect a successor to Ali
00:56Khamenei were meeting.
00:57How do you see this?
00:59Israel and the United States now relentless in their attacks.
01:03Do you really believe Iran can hold out?
01:07It is a big question of our time.
01:09We are in a very, very dangerous moment for the world, for the region.
01:13We're all affected by this, a massive escalation in the Middle East, a completely unnecessary,
01:19unprovoked war, a war of aggression against Iran, whatever your views of Iran.
01:23And people can be very critical, as I am, of Iran's government, of its human rights record,
01:28whatever you want to be critical of, its nuclear program.
01:30This was a war of aggression, a war of choice launched by the United States and Israel.
01:34They've all but admitted it.
01:35Their rationales keep shifting by the day as to why they're bombing Iran.
01:39We're meeting, we're talking, Rajdeep, on a day where Donald Trump says, well, it's too
01:43late to talk, even though on Sunday he said he wanted to talk.
01:46So they're all over the place.
01:48As you say, you know, we're escalating.
01:50More and more targets are getting hit.
01:52They've already killed the head of state, the supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, on day one,
01:56completely illegal under international law.
01:58And they've got no strategy to end this.
02:01They've got no end goal in sight.
02:03They've not explained to the American public or the wider international community as to why
02:07they are doing it and when they plan to stop.
02:09And we're seeing it escalate around the region.
02:11Americans are being asked to leave the Middle East.
02:13People are being killed in Gulf countries.
02:15Lebanon now is facing an Israeli ground invasion, as we speak.
02:1850 people killed in Lebanon, 750 people killed in Iran, people killed in Israel.
02:24The whole thing is a disaster.
02:26You know, you're saying it's a disaster.
02:28But when I speak to Israeli guests or indeed American guests close to the establishment,
02:34they say this is a just war.
02:35That's the word that's being used, a just war, to stop Iran from exporting terror or becoming
02:42a nuclear country that can destabilize the region and the world.
02:47So some of us who studied philosophy and theology in university will remember the criteria for
02:52a just war is that it has to be a last resort, has to be an act of self-defense.
02:56All other options have to be exhausted.
02:58That clearly wasn't the case.
03:00Rajiv, you don't have to take my word for it.
03:01Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, stood in Congress yesterday, spoke to reporters,
03:05and said the imminent threat, this is the legal justification for their attack.
03:09The imminent threat was not against the U.S., as many of us pointed out, it wasn't.
03:12He said that Israel was planning to attack Iran.
03:15And because America knew Israel was planning to attack Iran, America had to attack first
03:20because once Israel attacked Iran, Iran would attack America.
03:23Think about the illogicality of that position.
03:25Rather than just stop Israel from illegally attacking Iran, America decided,
03:29we will attack first and say it's an imminent threat on us.
03:32As even senior Democratic Party lawmakers are saying now, Rajiv, even pro-Israel Democrats
03:37are openly saying an imminent threat to Israel is not a threat against the United States.
03:42Our country is not the same as Israel.
03:44Israel's interests are not America's interests.
03:46And I think that's becoming a very fascinating political debate here in the U.S.,
03:49the shifting terrain on America's relationship with Israel.
03:52Of course, Israeli politicians are going to tell you that this is good for them.
03:55They've been wanting to take out Iran for decades.
03:58Benjamin Netanyahu admitted just yesterday, I'd been yearning, he said, dreaming of doing
04:03this for 40 years.
04:04Donald Trump is the first president to agree.
04:06Don't forget Bill Clinton, George Bush, Joe Biden, multiple American presidents.
04:12Barack Obama said no when Netanyahu told them to bomb Iran.
04:16When George W. Bush and Dick Cheney thought Iran was a step too far, think about how extreme
04:21this step is that Donald Trump has taken in his second term for Netanyahu's sake.
04:25And I would argue as a distraction from his domestic economic woes and the release of
04:29the Epstein files.
04:30Now, you're making an important point.
04:32You're claiming that Donald Trump at least partly has been driven by the fact to make
04:37this a weapon of mass distraction, if I may use that word, from the economic crisis, the
04:42Epstein files, and that it is Netanyahu who's leading the aggression and Donald Trump has chosen
04:47to play ball in a way previous American presidents have not.
04:51What really has changed?
04:52Is it just simply the way Donald Trump is in comparison to his predecessors?
04:58Here is a president who has simply no time for the international rules-based order.
05:02That's why he's chosen to go along.
05:05Oh, 100 percent.
05:06He has no interest.
05:07Other presidents have also, let's just be clear, Archie, other American presidents have
05:10also violated international law and the rules-based order.
05:13But at least they've pretended that they care about it.
05:15They've paid some lip service to it.
05:17And as I mentioned, even some of our most hawkish American presidents, George W. Bush, did not
05:21bomb Iran.
05:22Donald Trump is someone who doesn't care about international law.
05:24He doesn't care about national sovereignty.
05:26He's a very imperialist-style president.
05:28You know, we're taking America back 50, 100, 150 years.
05:31We saw what he did in Venezuela at the start of the year.
05:34He illegally went in and abducted the sitting president from his bed with his wife and declared
05:38himself, Trump declared himself, acting president of Venezuela.
05:42He says he now controls and rules Venezuela.
05:44He says he wants to take Greenland away from the Europeans, away from Denmark, completely
05:49in violation of international law, the UN and NATO.
05:52And of course, so Iran is something, it was very easy for Netanyahu to get Donald Trump
05:56to do this.
05:57And look, this is not just me saying this.
05:59The New York Times has a big piece on how Trump went to war, big deep dive.
06:03And their opening paragraph, Raj, the opening paragraph begins with Benjamin Netanyahu walked
06:08into the Oval Office in February to make sure that Donald Trump stays on a path to war.
06:13Netanyahu went on Fox last night on Sean Hannity's show and just laughed maniacally when Hannity
06:18said, people say that you made Trump do this.
06:21It is very clear that this is a war for Israel.
06:23There's what American national interest is there?
06:25Six American service members have been killed.
06:27Who's going to tell their families they died for nothing?
06:30Gas and oil prices are going up in a country where affordability and price rises, inflation
06:35has already been a huge political controversy.
06:37And of course, all of our allies, the Gulf allies are saying that the U.S. is not a protector
06:41of the Gulf.
06:42If you're in the UAE and Qatar and Bahrain, you used to look at the U.S. for protection.
06:47They were your shield.
06:48Now you're getting bombed by Iran and the Americans can't protect you?
06:51No, but if this all results eventually in the regime change that Donald Trump seems to
06:57suggest he or seems to hope it will, then Donald Trump could well claim victory.
07:03I've been trying to understand whether there is an end game.
07:07I've been asking a number of guests.
07:09No one has clarity on that.
07:10Do you see an end game if Donald Trump is able to put in place in Iran someone who he
07:17believes will toe the line of the American-Israel axis?
07:21Is that the end game?
07:23So a few things there.
07:25Number one, my colleague Swin Sup Sang here at Zeteo has been reporting from his sources
07:28inside the administration that they went into this war with no end game at all.
07:32They're trying to work it out in retrospect.
07:34After dropping the bombs, they're now trying to work out what is the end strategy, what
07:37is the exit strategy, which is a bizarre way to go to war, of course.
07:41And this is an administration that is full of incompetent people.
07:43Let's just be very clear.
07:45In fact, Trump himself admitted, Rajiv, I don't know if you saw, he said, we did have a plan
07:48to replace Khamenei.
07:49We had a number two, a number three, we had picked, but they got killed as well in the
07:53initial bombing.
07:53Imagine they killed the people they had wanted to replace Khamenei.
07:56That's the kind of incompetence with which they're bombing Iran.
07:59Number two, you say regime change could be the end goal.
08:02Well, as I said at the start of the interview, the end goal keeps changing.
08:04On the one hand, Donald Trump says regime change.
08:06Then he says, no, it's not about the regime.
08:08They can stay as long as they get rid of the nuclear program.
08:11Then they say, well, it's not about nuclear program.
08:12It's about freeing the Iranian people.
08:14Then they say, well, actually, it's about the ballistic missiles.
08:16They're all over the place when it comes to their actual goal.
08:18Everyone can see that.
08:19Finally, I would say we don't know what regime change looks like in Iran.
08:23The American record on regime change is a disaster.
08:27Should we talk about Iraq?
08:28Should we talk about Afghanistan, where the Taliban are back in charge?
08:31Should we talk about Libya, which is a failed state today?
08:35Syria, Venezuela.
08:37He just took out the president but kept in the rest of the government, didn't bring in
08:40the quote unquote democratic opposition.
08:42My worry for Iran is that you don't just lose this government and then have some happy
08:48democracy or even the return of the Shah's son.
08:51You actually get a civil war in Iran.
08:53You actually get a failed state in Iran, which is, by the way, Rajiv, what the Israelis
08:56want.
08:57The Israelis don't want a strong Iran.
08:59They don't want a strong Iraq.
09:00The Israelis want to be in a neighborhood where they're surrounded by Middle East countries
09:03which are fighting internally, which are torn apart internally.
09:07You're Lebanons.
09:07You're Syrians.
09:08You're Iraqs.
09:09That's what they want because they then get to be the top dog in the region.
09:13There is a much of what you're saying.
09:15Surely the American public out there knows the changing of the goalposts, the fact that
09:19American soldiers have lost their lives, the fact that there have been warnings, including
09:23in that NYT article from Trump's military advisor who made it clear that there could be
09:29several casualties.
09:31All of this is known to the American people, to Congress.
09:34Why is there not a greater pushback?
09:36Why is there seemingly not a greater pushback when there is this brazen violation seemingly
09:41of international law taking place?
09:44Or, as I said, the constant changing of goalposts that could involve the loss of lives?
09:49Well, it's not just international law that's being violated.
09:51It's the U.S. Constitution.
09:52The U.S. Constitution demands that Congress vote on war.
09:55Congress authorizes war.
09:57A president cannot take America into war without congressional authorization.
10:00There is an exception under what's called the War Powers Act that allows the president to
10:03use force for 60 days without getting congressional approval if there's an imminent threat to
10:08the U.S.
10:09And the intelligence community has made it clear that there was no imminent threat to
10:12the U.S. from Iran.
10:13Iran was not about to attack America.
10:14No one truly believes that.
10:16The public are against this war.
10:17What's so fascinating, Rajdeep, is that prior to this war, only one in four Americans supported
10:22hitting Iran.
10:23Only one in four Americans.
10:24Now, normally, when America goes to war, the minute the bombs drop, the minute American
10:28soldiers are in harm's way, the American public becomes very hawkish, immediately falls
10:32into line behind whatever foreign misadventure Bush or Obama or whoever it is takes them
10:37on.
10:37In this case, Rajdeep, for the first time in my lifetime, in living memory, the American
10:41public has not switched.
10:42In the polls that have been taken since Saturday, the majority are still against this war.
10:47So he's not, he's ignoring public opinion.
10:49Trump told the New York Post on Monday, I don't care about the polls.
10:51He's ignoring public opinion, but there are midterm elections coming up in November.
10:55They were already on course to lose those elections, Republicans.
10:58This will only cement that.
10:59And by the way, Democrats finally are speaking up.
11:02We're seeing for the first time even feckless, spineless Democrats, even those who are in
11:06the pro-Israel camp, are coming out and saying, you know what, we should not be fighting this
11:10war.
11:10This is an illegal war.
11:11This is something that's unconstitutional.
11:13Gavin Newsom, governor of California, very moderate mainstream Democrat, very pro-Israel
11:18guy.
11:18He came out yesterday and said, why did we kill 160 schoolgirls for Israel and Netanyahu's
11:23sake?
11:24And I think those questions are going to keep getting asked.
11:26If those questions are going to get asked, what happens next?
11:31What's your sense?
11:31With Donald Trump, we never know what happens next.
11:34Do you believe that he will call a halt, early halt to the war and claim victory?
11:39Or as he said yesterday, this could go on for weeks.
11:41Do you believe this has become an ego thing about it?
11:44There are lots of conspiracy theories, also that about, about backroom deals that have
11:48been struck.
11:49What's your sense?
11:51I know it's tough to predict what an unpredictable Trump will do, but what would you hazard?
11:56What happens next, given, as you're saying, that there is slowly a pushback even in America?
12:01Anyone who makes predictions in Trump's Washington, D.C. is crazy, because this is a man who doesn't
12:06even know what he's going to do any day he wakes up in the morning.
12:09As you say, Donald Trump could either end this war today and declare victory mission accomplished
12:13style like George W. Bush, or it could drag on for weeks.
12:16I suspect I would lean more towards some kind of fake declaration of victory, because one
12:21thing we know about Trump, Rajiv, he's not anti-war.
12:23This was a myth that Trump would be an anti-war.
12:25He likes bombing countries.
12:26He bombed seven countries in 2025, his first year in office.
12:30He launched more strikes than Joe Biden launched over four years in his first year.
12:34He likes bombing countries.
12:35What he doesn't like is prolonged conflicts, the quagmire of Iraq.
12:39What he always claimed to oppose was a long occupation of Iraq, of Afghanistan.
12:43He doesn't want to get stuck in Iran, even though they're talking about ground troops now.
12:47He likes the Venezuela-type conflict.
12:49You go in the middle of the night, bang, bang, bang, made for television.
12:53You pull Maduro out with a bag over his head, and you go, ha ha, look at that.
12:56That was amazing.
12:57It's like a Hollywood action movie.
12:58That's what this guy likes.
13:00He's a former reality TV star.
13:01This is what he enjoys.
13:03He's not some strategist, some geopolitical forecaster.
13:06This is something he got pushed into.
13:08This is something he doesn't actually care about deep down.
13:11He's now committed.
13:12He's got a massive ego, probably bigger than any person has ever had in the White House.
13:15So he can't, of course, look like he's been defeated.
13:18But at some point, he will be defeated, either politically or maybe even militarily.
13:22In a sense, therefore, as a final question, if you and I were to talk a month from now,
13:29do you believe that the war would still be on?
13:32Neither of us are military experts in that sense.
13:35We don't know what the capacity of Iran is to hold out.
13:38Iran is obviously trying to expand the theater of war to bring in other Gulf nations.
13:43As you mentioned, those Gulf nations also stand presumably cruelly exposed today.
13:49In a sense, their defenses have also got exposed.
13:54So a month from now, do you believe we will still be at war?
13:58So not just Gulf nations, Rajdeep.
14:00There's reporting that South Korea is losing some of its American munitions and protection.
14:04It's being diverted to the Gulf.
14:06Gulf countries are seeing that America only cares about Israel.
14:08Its other allies ultimately will always be sacrificed at the altar of Israel.
14:11That's become very clear. Will it continue a month from now?
14:15I think, look, first of all, let's not underestimate the Iranian regime's tolerance of attack and bloodshed.
14:21This is a country that took 10 years of beating by Saddam Hussein,
14:25backed by the United States and France and other countries at the time.
14:27They lost a million people, including many to chemical attacks from Saddam Hussein's army.
14:32This is a country whose religious leadership, as Marco Rubio pointed out,
14:36is a Shia clerical leadership which venerates martyrdom, which, you know, sees martyrdom as the ultimate gold.
14:42Khamenei became a martyr. They made Khamenei a martyr. They gave him what he wanted.
14:45So I think they have quite a long tolerance, actually, for enduring bombs and bullets and attacks from America and
14:51Israel,
14:52especially if they carry on hitting back as they are now.
14:54Now, whether that lasts a month, six months, a year, let me just say this, Rushdeep.
14:58One thing I've learned, unfortunately, from my 46 years on this planet watching wars like Iraq and Afghanistan is is
15:03there's a long tail to this stuff.
15:06You don't know when it's over. The West doesn't get to decide when wars are over.
15:10George Bush stood on an aircraft carrier and said mission accomplished in May of 2003,
15:15a couple of months after toppling Saddam.
15:17We know what happened in Iraq for the decade, decade and a half later.
15:21We know what happened in Afghanistan. Twenty years later, the Taliban was back in office.
15:25Some of our opponents, especially in the Middle East, they think in terms of decades.
15:29Unfortunately, the U.S. political media class thinks in terms of weeks. And that is the real disconnect.
15:35Let's therefore leave it at that, Mehdi. Maybe we'll get back to not after a decade, but maybe after a
15:42month or so and get a sense of what impact this war has had,
15:46because clearly it's destabilized large parts of the world like never before.
15:52And I think you've given us a sense of what Donald Trump is about.
15:57I just wonder how you get away with saying some of the things you do in a Trumpian world.
16:04But I guess more power to you. You must you must get under his skin.
16:12Well, some might say a lot about the Indian journalists who get under Narendra Modi's skin.
16:15We're living in a world where democratic journalists in democracies like India and America have to keep speaking out to
16:21value the importance of free speech,
16:22especially at a time of war when dissent is so important.
16:26Let me leave it at that. I appreciate you joining me, Mehdi.
16:30Thanks so much for joining me here on the news today.
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