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00:22Hello and welcome to a special one-hour edition of Offsiders, I'm Abbey Jelmy.
00:26The program has been on air for 20 years this month and we're celebrating by getting together
00:32some of our original panellists and former hosts to take a look back.
00:36When Barry Cassidy founded the program in 2006, he wanted the panellists to examine
00:41the big stories and great moments in Australian sport.
00:44And when you go through the past two decades, haven't there been plenty?
00:50As evidence continues to mount of improper drug practices at Essendon, the coach and
00:54the players become increasingly defiant.
00:56When the truth comes out, I think I'll be in a very, very good position in Solis football.
01:02The honourable thing for him to do would be to stand down.
01:05They looked like a bunch of naughty schoolboys who'd been caught out and didn't like it.
01:09I think there will be handfuls of players that will be stood down for up to two years.
01:13The Melbourne Storm wanders the NRL landscape as the ghost team of Australian sport.
01:18The penalty will be the stripping of two premierships.
01:22We've got to open up the whole salary cap debate to make sure that we don't have cheats in any
01:28sport.
01:29Armstrong is the most cold-blooded, calculating cheat in the history of world sport.
01:34The reputation of Australian cricket is in tatters this morning.
01:37This is a deliberate, calculated attempt to cheat.
01:41I'll do everything I can to make up for my mistake and the damage it's caused.
01:47Australia is generally a very tolerant society until its minorities demonstrate that they
01:53don't know their place.
01:54I think it's an indictment on our game that Adam Goods has ended his career as a great
02:00player but that he has not been celebrated the way he should have been.
02:03Kawaguchi doesn't get to this, and the ball's going in, Australia score for the first time
02:10ever in the World Cup Finals and the name is Tim Cahill.
02:15Adele Evans cannot be beaten now, he is over a minute to the good.
02:19He has absolutely slaughtered his opposition.
02:23The whole nation is watching.
02:29There it is, Adam Scott.
02:35Australian sport can't have known a week like us.
02:38The numbing shock, the desperate sadness, the heavy grief that has engulfed the nation
02:43since the death of Philip Hughes.
02:45We loved him, and always will.
02:50Rest in peace, brussy.
02:52We've never known a sports star quite like Shane Keith-Warne.
02:56He kind of recast the whole idea of leg spin in his own image, aggressive and swaggering
03:02and fun.
03:03Got him!
03:04There it is!
03:05There it is!
03:06Wicked number 700!
03:07And they can't catch him!
03:12Prince of Pendant and history at Flemington, Michelle Payne, Prince of Pendant next Dynamite.
03:17Like me, did it make your heart swell with pride?
03:20It made me cry.
03:21It made me cry.
03:22Most Australian women on Tuesday night, they all walked a little bit taller.
03:25Welcome to AFL Women's.
03:29Welcome to AFL Women's.
03:30Welcome to AFL Women's.
03:33Menji Lee is finally a major champion.
03:37A magical moment in Australian sport.
03:39The AFL has moved to immediately suspend the 2020 AFL Premiership season.
03:46The whole survival of our game is at risk.
03:50You've been involved in sport for many, many decades.
03:52Have you ever seen anything like this?
03:54Never.
03:55Nothing like this.
03:55And the Panthers have done it again.
03:58Four premierships in a row.
04:01It will go down as one of the greatest lines in Australian sport.
04:06And Postacoglu always wins trophies in his second year.
04:10Glory!
04:11Glory!
04:12Tottenham Hotspur!
04:14In the end, it all came down to Courtney Vine.
04:17Can she grab this game?
04:18Can she grab for Matilda's future?
04:22She in the party!
04:41Cue the party, alright.
04:42We're about to take a look at what we've learned from those big stories.
04:45Remember some of those epic moments?
04:47And a little bit later, I'll be joined by former hosts,
04:49Gerard Whateley and Kelly Underwood,
04:51and original panellist, John Harms.
04:53But first, we have three originals to look at the big stories
04:56in our three most popular sports, the NRL, AFL and cricket.
05:00I'm joined by Roy Masters, Caroline Wilson and Gideon Haig.
05:03Team, wonderful to have you here for such a great celebration.
05:05But when we do look back over the 20 years,
05:08the biggest stories seem to be scandals and cheating.
05:10And Caro, no prizes for guessing what the biggest story has been
05:13for the AFL in that ilk.
05:15Yeah, it was definitely the Essendon drug scandal.
05:18It's worth mentioning, Abi, and thank you for having me,
05:21that the first big year of this great show was 2006
05:26and there was a West Coast drug scandal
05:28that really haunted their premiership that year.
05:31The club has since admitted that that premiership was tainted,
05:33highlighted, of course, by the downfall of Ben Cousins
05:36and subsequent kicking him out of the game for the year.
05:39But in terms of collective disgrace, what Essendon did,
05:44what the leaders at that club allowed to happen to young men,
05:48many of them as young as 18 and 19,
05:50with an experimental drug program that they still, to this day,
05:55cannot tell us what was taken,
05:57is the most shameful story I've ever covered in sport by so far.
06:03And you talk about the lessons.
06:05I mean, we sit here now in 2026.
06:08Essendon have had six different individual coaches
06:11for various games since then.
06:13They haven't played finals.
06:15Even the end of last year, the Zach Merritt captaincy scandal
06:20and attempt to leave and now demotion,
06:22I think bears its roots in what happened at that football club
06:26and its Messiah complex that has haunted them,
06:29really, since the 19...
06:31Since John Coleman, really.
06:33And I think James Heard and Kevin Cheaty before him
06:37were big, big names there.
06:40And the lesson, really, is that they didn't put their hand up.
06:45And in Roy's sport, there was a similar story at a similar time.
06:49And the refusal to accept that they had done anything wrong
06:53ended up being so damaging for all concerned.
06:57The AFL spent two years navigating a landmine at every step.
07:01And, look, they didn't do it perfectly either.
07:03But I'm still so disgusted by the actual human story
07:08of what happened to those players.
07:10Nothing demonstrates the difference between the two major cities,
07:13which, of course, are Sydney and Melbourne,
07:15and they're two principal codes, more than this saga,
07:17which happened exactly at the same time,
07:19and involved the same guy, Stephen Dank.
07:25Basically, the Essendon players
07:27sort of were echoing the line from Othello,
07:29my reputation, my reputation, oh, my glorious reputation.
07:33They were more concerned about reputational damage,
07:35whereas up in Sydney, Cronulla were offered a token ban
07:40of about three weeks, and they basically said,
07:43what, we can serve this during the off-season?
07:45It's not going to cost us any money with lawyers?
07:47Here, all the people are going to do is call me a drug chief.
07:50Here, give me a piece of paper and I'll sign now.
07:53So they got over it straight away.
07:55About two or three years later, they went a premiership.
07:58And we saw the clip of the Steve Smith versus the James Hurd.
08:02Essendon is still a very wealthy club.
08:04They've got unbelievable facilities.
08:06On every off-field level, in terms of money,
08:09they're completely rocketing.
08:10But their culture has never recovered.
08:12Just as Carlton's, I don't think, has recovered
08:14from the salary cap scandal.
08:16Just as Melbourne took so many years to get over the tanking scandal,
08:20and the Adelaide Football Club with that disgraceful camp.
08:23So it's just interesting.
08:25If you don't admit you're wrong early on
08:27and accept what you've done is wrong,
08:29it seems the lesson I've learnt in covering sport
08:31is that you can pay for decades.
08:34I think when we talk about cheating in terms of a national league
08:38and they're just, you know, relative teams,
08:40it feels a bit different than when Australia cheat, Gideon.
08:43And that was something with Sandpaper Gate that we saw
08:45that really rocked the foundations about how we felt
08:47about this beloved team.
08:49Yes.
08:49I think the important thing to say about Sandpaper Gate
08:52is that it was a slow burn.
08:54No one goes to bed straight and awakes corrupt.
08:58Australian cricketers convinced themselves
09:01that they played best in a scenario of antagonism,
09:04of pushing the line of acceptable behaviour,
09:06and they didn't realise how it had alienated them from the public.
09:10They thought that winning washed away all sins.
09:13So when they crossed the line into malpractice at Cape Town,
09:16the reaction from the public was, yeah, that'd be right.
09:20And, well, not in our name.
09:22The players ended up paying a very heavy price for that.
09:27Those who facilitated that slide, I have to say,
09:30have been much better at covering their tracks.
09:33You would say, though, the impact that it had gave an insight
09:37into how much this team and how important this team was
09:39to the Australian psyche and still is.
09:41Yeah, absolutely.
09:42And we'll talk a little bit later about the death of Philip Hughes.
09:46I think the two are complexly related in the sense
09:49that they both showed how strongly and emotionally we love cricket,
09:53how we regard it as part of our Australian birthright
09:56and how deeply we feel its representational nature.
10:00You know, Philip's death was felt as a personal loss,
10:03a loss of the boy next door, of innocence, of Summer.
10:08And Sandpaper Gate was experienced as a very personal betrayal.
10:12That first they conspired and then they lied.
10:14The reactions were organic and unanimous.
10:18They weren't mandated.
10:19No-one told us how to think.
10:20They were spontaneous.
10:21And we were, all of us, cut to the quick.
10:24And we were really upset, understandably.
10:26But I think if we're going to look back at cheating
10:28and scandals over the time,
10:29a club that have handled it remarkably well, Roy,
10:32would be the Storm and their success that they've had since.
10:34And the way they handled the salary cap scandal was really remarkable.
10:38The Storm basically were punished in a way
10:41that no club before or since has ever been punished.
10:44Yes.
10:44They were punished for the past, the present and the future.
10:47They lost premierships, two major premierships,
10:50three minor premierships.
10:52They were punished for the present
10:53by not being allowed to pay for points in that particular season.
10:56And they were punished by the future
10:57for losing stacks and stacks of players.
10:59Yet, two years later, they won a premiership in 2012.
11:02Now, they did this because of the intrinsic fact
11:06that they did not adopt the siege mentality,
11:10you know, we're the victims.
11:13This is a Sydney conspiracy.
11:15They, in fact, had a lot of Victoria behind them
11:17who did see it as a Sydney conspiracy,
11:19but not within that club itself.
11:22They had a coach who said,
11:23OK, let us return to the things that has got us where we are today,
11:27which is hard work, which is commitment to each other,
11:30which is facing up to the fact that we have to confront these hurdles.
11:36And they did so.
11:37And now, of course, they have played in 11 grand finals
11:41in that last 20-year period.
11:43So, it's an amazing testament to what they've done
11:46and it will stand them instead for the years ahead.
11:51And I think looking back over the 20 years,
11:54we know that sport, at its best,
11:55can be a lens for the best and the worst in society.
11:58And I think the booing of Adam Goodes,
12:01which dominated the back pages about a decade ago,
12:04is really symbolic of that.
12:05The Sydney Swarm was a champion footballer,
12:07had won two brown lows and was even Australian of the Year.
12:10And the AFL has had several other racism dramas since,
12:13including the Collingwood Do Better report
12:15and the Hawthorne racism allegations only recently, Caro.
12:18It's a big question, but has the AFL made any progress
12:21in stamping out racism in the last two decades?
12:25Look, they have, but of course they have.
12:28But so many fewer Indigenous players are playing the game now
12:32than they were pre-COVID.
12:34We still don't see enough Indigenous men and women
12:38in positions of leadership in the AFL.
12:40And it's a great source of sadness to me that the code I cover,
12:44which invented the peak rule and racial vilification
12:47back in the 90s and led the way,
12:49was the club, was the code that handled Adam Goodes so badly.
12:55It was a, pardon the pun, Roy,
12:56but the perfect storm of a new sort of fledgling CEO
13:00in Gillan McLaughlin who wasn't prepared
13:01to stand up to the commission.
13:03There were clubs who did not cover themselves in glory,
13:06whose Indigenous footballers like Hawthorne
13:09begged their leaders to say something, but didn't.
13:12And the lesson, well, it's not really a lesson,
13:15it's just a great tragedy in sporting terms
13:18that Adam Goodes won't accept admission into the Hall of Fame.
13:23He doesn't attend the Brownlow medal night,
13:25of which he's won two.
13:27He occasionally goes to a Swans game
13:29when his charity is involved,
13:30but he goes to no...
13:32He's lost to football.
13:34Now, there's no good way of glossing over that.
13:39And when the AFL finally did apologise on paper,
13:42it was generic.
13:43They took about three months to negotiate an apology.
13:47It was pretty disgraceful, really,
13:49under Richard Goyder's leadership and Gillan McLaughlin's.
13:52And I don't know why, but they didn't on the...
13:55The code apologised.
13:57Now, I think an individual should have put his name to that,
13:59and I'm still really disappointed.
14:02Again, if you say you're sorry in the proper way,
14:05I think things can be fixed,
14:07but I still remember sitting at the MCG
14:10on the grand final day when Adam Goodes was booed
14:13and went on and it got worse and worse.
14:16And the excuses, you know, that he stages for free,
14:20kicks, just the lies that were told.
14:22It's really disappointing.
14:23And I think the inclusivity around race and religion
14:26is something that is only going to be a growing theme
14:28and a growing issue going forward in sport,
14:30and one that we hope that we see a lot of progress in,
14:32in leaps and bounds.
14:33But if we are going to talk about big stories,
14:35the tragic death of Philip Hughes,
14:37devastated Australians, sports fans or not.
14:39Gideon, I'll ask you about covering that story soon.
14:42But first, here's what you had to say in 2014,
14:44a day or so after his death.
14:47Tears have laid an ambush all week.
14:50It's the story that we never imagined writing.
14:53Certainly the hardest I've had to report
14:54in more than 30 years of journalism,
14:57because the words have just felt so inadequate.
15:01At the same time, I think it is also a testament
15:04to the role of the place of cricket
15:05in the national imagination.
15:08It connected with people on all levels.
15:12Probably only A. E. Houseman
15:14who said it any better in that great poem,
15:17The Athlete Dying Young.
15:18Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:19It really cut us all
15:20because he was an athlete cut down
15:22in the prime of his life.
15:24And he was the embodiment of certain things
15:25that we believe fundamentally about Australian cricketers.
15:28You know, youthful, affable, self-taught, self-directed.
15:32I think no other cricketer could have occasioned
15:35such a sense of loss.
15:37In hindsight, it seems to me staggering
15:40that there were just 12 days between Philip's death
15:43and Australia playing the Adelaide Test match against India.
15:45The date of the first test was pushed back for five whole days.
15:49I mean, these were broken men playing with Philip,
15:53and yet they're expected to go out and pick us up
15:56and render us whole again.
15:57I don't think any Australian sporting team
15:59has ever borne such a burden,
16:01and then into a year in which they've played
16:03a Bordegavisgar Trophy, a World Cup and an Ashes.
16:07At the best of times, it's hard for players to let the game go.
16:11There were incidents this summer with the protracted farewell
16:13to Usman Khawaja.
16:14But look at the players who gave it away
16:16in the year after Philip Hughes's death.
16:18You had Michael Clarke, Mitchell Johnson,
16:21Harris, Haddon, Rogers, Watson.
16:23Cricket became a lot harder to feel good about,
16:27and the environment of the Australian cricket team
16:30must have been a constant reminder of what had been lost.
16:34And that, I think, has had a long-term effect
16:36on the Australian team.
16:37It kind of left us with the axis of Smith and Warner,
16:40which I think was kind of a bit uneasy
16:42and probably a bit premature.
16:44And for the next few years,
16:45I think Australia played a little bit like angry men.
16:48They played like wounded men.
16:50And the Cape Town test as a result
16:52was a kind of a perfect storm to bring things to a head.
16:55The team were under acute pressure,
16:57away from home at the end of a long summer.
16:59They were being monstered by the crowds.
17:01They were let down by their elders
17:02who did nothing to address the obvious signs
17:05that that team was falling apart.
17:07And understandably so.
17:09And I think that's one of those things
17:10that when you look back in retrospect,
17:11and as you said, it was such a tight turnaround
17:12to the next time they played.
17:13Hopefully there's lessons learned
17:15in the way that you can support teams
17:17that go through this unexpected tragedy.
17:20But we will move on
17:21because it wouldn't be offsiders
17:22without a bit of code debate.
17:24The NRL is expanding to Perth and PNG.
17:26The AFL is getting a new team in Tassie.
17:28And cricket is contemplating private ownership
17:31in the Big Bash.
17:32Now all three have women's leagues,
17:34and we are going to talk about their success
17:36and their challenges with our second panel.
17:38But for now, which sport is the biggest and best these days?
17:42Caro and Roy, you've been going at this debate
17:44for a long, long time.
17:46Two thirds of all code income comes from television.
17:50Last year, the NRL smashed the AFL
17:53in the television ratings.
17:55I'll say sport is increasingly becoming an international game.
18:01The Rugby League is powering into the Pacific.
18:04We've had a team over in New Zealand for 30 years.
18:06We're moving up into the Polynesian Islands.
18:11The code is set for enormous expansion,
18:14and we have those two great advantages over AFL.
18:20Number one, it's a better sport for television,
18:22which is the prime income source.
18:24And two, we are an international game.
18:27Well, you're right about that last point,
18:29but pretty much everything is wrong.
18:32The AFL is now a billion-dollar industry.
18:34One in 20 Australians is a member of an AFL club.
18:381.2 million members now.
18:41I think more than 8 million people.
18:44I mean, in terms of bums on seats, Roy,
18:46attendances at AFL games, it is incomparable.
18:49And I think...
18:50Incomparable.
18:51I think that...
18:52Thank you for correcting me.
18:53I think that we have a new chairman of the AFL now,
18:56and I reckon we'll probably have a Twilight Grand Final,
18:58and that will mean that the AFL will again
19:01go ahead of the NRL in terms of numbers.
19:03I think what the AFL have done in the time
19:05that this show has been going is they have expanded.
19:09They've bought their own stadium,
19:10and apart from Victoria, where they bought Marvel Stadium,
19:13which has just been an unbelievable fillip for them,
19:17is that in every other state they have built brilliant stadiums.
19:21South Australian football has been transformed by the Adelaide Oval.
19:24The AFL haven't built those stadiums.
19:25The AFL haven't built those stadiums.
19:46Excuse me.
19:46Roy, I know you're still upset about that bet you made with me back in 2009
19:50when I revealed that there were going to be, sorry, 2008,
19:54two new teams in Western Sydney and on the Gold Coast.
19:57And it was an expensive bet, Roy, and I can still taste those beautiful prawns
20:02you paid for that night.
20:03But listen, in one area I will concede that NRL has done better,
20:09and that is in their women's game.
20:11We haven't got it right.
20:12Let's be brutal.
20:13And it loses a lot of money, which is not a big deal
20:17because we gain in so many other areas in terms of stadiums,
20:20government, sponsorship.
20:21We just don't do the big events well.
20:23And NRL's state of origin, NRLW, I should say, has been a game changer.
20:29And the other area that the AFL still hasn't got quite right
20:33is making the game big in Western Sydney.
20:36Even GWS admit that NRL is bigger now in Western Sydney
20:40than when the Giants, who were a great footy club
20:42and have done very well on the field, began.
20:45But apart from that, there is no doubt, Roy,
20:48that AFL is a better game to watch.
20:50It is the biggest sporting code in the country.
20:53And even AI will tell you that.
20:56So well done on your women's game.
20:59But apart from that...
21:01We just had a World Club challenge over there.
21:03I mean, you two.
21:04This could take the rest of the program.
21:06We do have another panel that are coming,
21:07so we will continue this conversation later, I'm sure.
21:10But we'd like to have a moment.
21:11We usually ask for observations,
21:13but I'd like to ask for your biggest and best moments
21:15that you've had over the last 20 years.
21:18What sticks out for you?
21:19We might actually start with you, Roy.
21:21Well, I think that the Panthers fought four premierships in a row.
21:27And to think back when the Panthers, more than 30 years ago,
21:30they'd won a couple of premierships,
21:32but they'd always been importing a couple of big players
21:35from other clubs.
21:36Then they discovered that all the strength was in their own backyard.
21:39They are an absolute template.
21:41The Storm will be copying from them.
21:43The Storm had four of their local juniors on the field last night
21:46in a game against the Titans.
21:48But the pathways that that club has created,
21:52the pride that they have created at the foot of the mountains,
21:54I think is one of the big factors why the GWS is still slumbering
21:58and not able to get much recognition at all.
22:01It's a great story.
22:02And in terms of the person who I think has been
22:06the most significant fellow in the last 20 years,
22:09it would have to be Bellamy, for the reasons that I just said earlier,
22:12to come back from that salary cap disaster.
22:16And let's remember that the offence for which they were committed,
22:20which were only three players and two or three years later
22:23they were going to suddenly give those three players
22:25marquee player allowances across the board.
22:28So I just think that to be able to maintain relevance at one club
22:35for 24 years and still be able to produce champions,
22:39the great skinny coach, Wayne Bennett,
22:42he's been to about seven or eight clubs in that same period of time.
22:46He has been absolutely fantastic.
22:48He's been a great coach,
22:49but to still have the effect on players that Bellamy has now is incredible.
22:55Sensational. Caro?
22:56The great innovation has been Gather Round,
22:58a footy festival like nothing I have ever witnessed.
23:01Where did that come from?
23:03Yours is a booze fest up in Queensland,
23:05Gather Round's for families.
23:07The other, look, being biased,
23:10you know, Richmond breaking a 37-year drought
23:13and then winning three flags in four years was extraordinary.
23:16But the Bulldogs' 2016 flag is no doubt the highlight
23:20of the last 20 years for me and my code.
23:22I mean, they hadn't won a flag since the early 50s.
23:25They did it in the hardest possible way.
23:27They did it from seventh on the ladder.
23:30They had to go to the West.
23:31They had to beat the reigning premiers and that game in GWS.
23:35And the individual performer, individual performer for me,
23:39there's some moments from that unbelievable drought-breaking game.
23:43But the individual is Dustin Martin.
23:46I mean, I think that he even...
23:48I'll defer to Lee Matthews, the player of the 20th century,
23:51who described 2017 as the only perfect season
23:54he has ever witnessed from a player.
23:56He did everything.
23:57He then went on to win three Norm Smith medals
24:00and you'd have to say in 2020 they don't win it without him,
24:04the COVID flag.
24:05So...
24:06And then you drag 93,000 people to your 300th game
24:10when you're pretty much finished
24:11and your club's got absolutely no hope.
24:13So he's been the standout performer for me.
24:16Yeah, he absolutely will go down in history.
24:18Gideon, over to you.
24:19Cricket, very different issues from NFL and NRL,
24:22who don't have global settings to necessarily worry about.
24:25I think the big change over the last 20 years
24:28is that cricket here has been buffeted by
24:30much, much bigger forces than itself.
24:32You know, the collapse of the global system,
24:34that it's done nothing to arrest,
24:35the emergence of the Indian hegemon,
24:38the ascendancy of private capital
24:40and I think the infantilising of the audience.
24:44In terms of the best cricketer,
24:45the most important cricketer of the last 20 years,
24:48I think Pat Cummins has a solid claim to that.
24:51You know, a fast bowling captain is unusual,
24:52but one who presents with such suavity
24:55is an absolute unicorn and in a sense
24:59he's kind of bridging the contradictions of the game.
25:01He was missed over summer, wasn't he?
25:02Absolutely, absolutely.
25:04But he's making it, you know,
25:05he bridges the gaps between red and white ball cricket,
25:07international and franchise cricket
25:09and he makes it look much, much easier than it actually is.
25:12I would say that I think one of the most significant cricketers worldwide
25:17of the last 20 years has to be Virat Kohli because Kohli was,
25:23and while Australians always esteemed Sash and Tendulka,
25:27it was a kind of a rather distanced reverence.
25:30Kohli became Virat in Australia.
25:33He was a worthy rival who we addressed in these really intimate terms,
25:37who we saluted in success, but we also loved getting the better of.
25:41And that also reflects, I think over the last 20 years,
25:44that India has become our definitive opponent
25:46because Ashes cricket here has been so uncompetitive.
25:49And he has been so definitive to that rivalry too.
25:51But Gideon, you've been so definitive to this program
25:53and we actually have, you've been the best travelled out of everyone
25:56being able to go around the world.
25:57Certainly the best dressed.
25:58Very well.
25:59No.
25:59Speaking of which, we're going to, perfect.
26:01Let's roll the tape.
26:03Well, the law of probability suggests that it'll be an English victory.
26:07Another fascinating day's cricket in what's turning into a fascinating series.
26:10Well, this was one for the true believers, wasn't it?
26:12It was a one-way traffic today at the Oval.
26:15To my surprise, I did find the motorised shoe as it's been described.
26:20It's been a great tour.
26:21We've very much enjoyed making these dispatches for you.
26:24Looking forward to a fantastic climax to this test match
26:27in a couple of days' time.
26:29You started out with a button-up shirt
26:30and by the end you've got the T-shirt on, you quite leaned back.
26:33Yeah, I know.
26:33It's been the first thing I've received every appearance
26:36for the last 20 years is an email from my mother
26:38saying, can you please dress a little bit better?
26:42I'm glad you listened to Mum today.
26:44Yes, very respectable.
26:46We've just adored having you.
26:48We've adored having you all on the program
26:49and thank you so much for your contributions in that time.
26:51And you two, just make sure there's no contribution.
26:54Yeah, well, happy Las Vegas game, Caro,
26:56when we take on America in a week's time.
26:59It's going nowhere, Roy.
27:01It's going nowhere.
27:01We will leave it there, but thank you so much.
27:04And Gerard Waitley, Kelly Underwood and John Harms
27:06will join us in just a moment.
27:08But first, we're going to hear from our spiritual leader
27:10and founder, Barry Cassidy, who can't be with us this morning
27:13due to a prior commitment, but he sent through this during the week.
27:17A television program that lasts 10 years
27:20is considered a success by any measure.
27:2320 years takes that to a whole new level.
27:25It's a hell of an achievement for a program that started
27:28without much fanfare and with modest aims.
27:30We didn't want to be just another results program.
27:33We wanted off-siders to dig deeper and cover the issues
27:36in and around sport.
27:38And we wanted to elevate women's sport
27:40and put more women on the panels.
27:42And surprise, surprise, that approach not only addressed
27:44an imbalance, but improved the product.
27:47There have been some extraordinary changes
27:49in the Australian sporting landscape over the last two decades.
27:52We now watch much of our sport on subscription platforms
27:56or on our mobile phones.
27:58Back in 2006, who would have thought we'd have professional
28:01domestic leads for women in Aussie rules, league, football,
28:05rugby and cricket.
28:07And that the Matildas will be the nation's favourite sporting team.
28:10No question.
28:11So sorry, I can't be there to reflect on all of this this morning,
28:14but I want to congratulate the people who made this show work.
28:18Some of the best sports writers and commentators in the country
28:20and our producers, and in Abby, Kelly and Gerard,
28:24three hosts who bring out the best in all of them.
28:27And to you, the audience, thanks for 20 years of loyalty.
28:31Such a special message. Thank you to Barry.
28:33And welcome to our final panel for the afternoon.
28:35We've got some all-stars here.
28:36I'm joined by John Harms, Kelly Underwood and Gerard Waitley.
28:40Gerard, a special message there.
28:41Abby, thank you for having us.
28:43Yes, as I like to think Barry founded the show,
28:45so when Collingwood won a premiership,
28:46he would have somewhere to celebrate on television the following day.
28:50And he wanted a proper preview of the Melbourne Cup.
28:53I think for a few years,
28:54he thought he should have named the show Outsiders
28:56because that's how it was referred to everywhere.
28:58But he conceived a show that could have
29:00Thomas Keneally preview an NRL grand final
29:03and an Australian coach be a regular member of the panel.
29:06And I did feel it driving here this morning collectively
29:08and very much individually,
29:10a tremendous sense of gratitude towards Barry on behalf of us all.
29:15You're right, Gerard.
29:16I mean, it was always conceived.
29:18And it was his little...
29:19I came to him over dinner, I think, one night
29:22with his wife, Heather, in London.
29:24And it was all about just wanting to talk about Collingwood
29:27and horse racing.
29:28But he is definitely...
29:30..was back then a visionary
29:32because I think he probably believed in women
29:34before women believed in women.
29:35And he could see what was happening, obviously,
29:38in the media side.
29:39And I'm very thankful for him
29:40to give me my opportunity on this program.
29:42But also women's sport and what he's just mentioned there.
29:46I mean, when he started this program, Abby,
29:48there was no A-League women.
29:50There was no Women's Big Bash.
29:51There was no NRLW.
29:53There was no AFLW.
29:54There was no Super W rugby.
29:56And now, arguably, as he said,
29:58the two most successful and adored national teams in Australia
30:02are the Matildas and the Australian women's cricket teams.
30:05So Offsiders has been, I would say,
30:07a major part of that progression for the last two decades.
30:10And it's all thanks to him.
30:12And it is time to have a look at some of those wider,
30:14major themes that we've defined over the last two decades.
30:17And, of course, remember those great moments.
30:19But I think you have mentioned already
30:21women's sport has to be a central theme
30:23in terms of the largest growth that we've seen.
30:25And who would have thought 20 years ago
30:27that the Matildas would be our most popular side?
30:29It's huge. Absolutely huge.
30:32And, you know, there was a pre-history to women's sport,
30:34but it really got that momentum going
30:37around the time of Michelle Payne's Melbourne Cup in 2015.
30:41Now, there were a few other things happening around that time.
30:44And since then, it has just really taken off.
30:47So the other few things were...
30:49Just remind me of the order.
30:50I think in the lead-up to this,
30:52Australia always had heroic female sporting figures
30:55and Dawn Fraser, Betty Cuthbert, through to Cathy Freeman,
30:58and Sally Pearson.
31:01The Matildas win the Asian Cup in 2010
31:03and then go to the World Cup in 2011,
31:06where Elise Perry scores.
31:08And that tidies up with Australia win four World Cups,
31:11basically in a five-year span in cricket.
31:13And Perry's the joining figure.
31:15Then Michelle Payne wins the Melbourne Cup.
31:18And that's the one platform where men and women
31:21do compete on an absolutely level scale.
31:24And it opened the mind.
31:25The country changed that day.
31:27And I do think not only the willingness
31:29to watch mainstream women's sport,
31:32but the willingness to stage it.
31:33So the following year, Kel,
31:34Melbourne and the Bulldogs play
31:36in one of their exhibition games.
31:38It features in the new pre-finals buy
31:40and it rates a million on Channel 7
31:42and it demands action in the aftermath.
31:45Absolutely.
31:45And that's what happened.
31:46That's when the introduction of the AFLW came.
31:49So, you know, and when Mo Hope became the face of women's footy back then,
31:54this was the game that really just, it arrived like a bolt out of the blue,
31:58even though we know that women have been playing Australian rules football for a long time.
32:02It was just this crack of thunder and suddenly arrived.
32:05Gillian McLaughlin, the then AFL CEO, had planned to bring it in in 2020.
32:09And such was the impact.
32:11He brought it forward by three years.
32:13But I think let's give credit where credit's due.
32:16Cricket was the first sport to actually invest and believe in women's sport.
32:21And I think all the others had to jump in line because, you know,
32:25it suddenly became this great big competition.
32:28But due to, definitely the credit goes to cricket and what they were able to do.
32:32So with the AFL, I think there was a financial imperative around that too.
32:38I mean, the AFL thinks in terms of finances a lot of the time.
32:42So the gender issue is enormous, of course.
32:45But they could see that maybe there was a financial future in it
32:49to build a second competition and treat it like they do the men's competition in the long term.
32:57It's going to take a while for it to happen.
32:59But in the long...
33:01This was the first night at Princess Park.
33:03I remember that week, guys.
33:05It was going to be at Olympic Park. Remember that?
33:07And I actually rang and said,
33:10Hey, I know 4,000 people who are going to go.
33:13You know?
33:14You've got to put it somewhere else.
33:16And they've wound up putting it at Princess Park.
33:18And then we took the kids and, you know, went and had a pizza
33:21and walked through the park.
33:22And we were lucky to get in
33:24because there wound up being stacks of people outside.
33:27So the popularity was there.
33:29I mean, even Abi, just 10 years ago,
33:31I remember, and I still remember talking about this on various platforms,
33:35but Black Caviar...
33:37The Daily Telegraph, one of Australia's biggest newspapers,
33:39named Black Caviar the Sportswoman of the Year.
33:42Nice.
33:43And I remember walking down the street
33:45and having a look at walking past the Rebel sport windows.
33:49And I still remember this.
33:50The only female attire that you could go in and purchase as a woman
33:54was the then Australian cricket captain Michael Clarke's wife, Kylie Boldy.
33:59Yeah, so you couldn't actually...
34:00I mean, this is how far we've come.
34:02Now you can walk in there...
34:03And you can't buy a Matildas Guns because they're sold out.
34:05That's right, but you can buy, you know...
34:08And we know all these...
34:09Like, we didn't know female sports stars by their first name.
34:13I mean, I've got friends.
34:14A producer is one of them.
34:15He's got three boys.
34:16They play in the backyard.
34:17And, you know, I'm Sam Kerr.
34:19I'm Elisa Healey.
34:20I'm Erin Phillips.
34:21Yes.
34:22I mean, that just shows...
34:23It's so good for sport,
34:25but it's got to be good for the culture of this country.
34:28It just highlights how far we've come.
34:30You've just mentioned her,
34:31but someone who definitely epitomises the growth of women's sport
34:35is Erin Phillips.
34:36She's the daughter of a famous AFL player
34:38who, with no footy pathway, went away to basketball
34:41and won two WNBA titles, if you don't mind,
34:43before returning to dominate in the new AFLW competition.
34:46And here she is being inducted into the Football Hall of Fame.
34:51I can't imagine how hard it would have been
34:55to tell your 13-year-old daughter
34:59that she couldn't play the game that she loves anymore.
35:04And 27 years later,
35:06she's standing next to you in the Hall of Fame.
35:09It's just...
35:13I think we all cried with him in that moment.
35:16It's just one of those special moments.
35:17I think there were tears for me around the Michelle Payne
35:20moment as well.
35:21And I think it was part of the appeal was how she did it.
35:24Apart from the brilliant ride where she gets off the rail
35:27and waits and waits and then storms home.
35:30The speech with Sam Highland was superb.
35:34It won the crowd.
35:35She then...
35:36The TV audience, certainly.
35:38She then speaks to Peter Donegan, I think, at the lectern,
35:42and then makes the speech at the presentation.
35:44And all three of them were just from the heart.
35:47We do have that grab.
35:48We actually have that grab from Michelle
35:50after she'd just won the Melbourne Cup.
35:53I know some of the owners were keen to kick me off,
35:55for instance,
35:56John Richards and Darren stuck really solid with me.
35:59I just can't say how grateful I am to them
36:02and just want to say to everyone else can get stuff
36:04because they think women aren't strong enough
36:06but we just beat the world.
36:07And the first thing, she went straight to Stevie,
36:11you know, who was strapped by horse.
36:12Yeah, just...
36:12It was such a family moment
36:14and I think people just empathise so strongly with it.
36:17I think it resonated with all women
36:19because you hear that, don't you think, Abby?
36:21I wanted to get kicked off it.
36:22Well, we've all been told at some point, you know,
36:24you sort of... you get to a point and, you know,
36:26I've been told women don't like women on radio
36:28and then you hear that and it just...
36:30Caro said it in the open.
36:31It makes you walk taller
36:32because you go, well, hang on, stuff them.
36:34Why not?
36:35You know, and so you're right.
36:36She did start that.
36:37And she told me she hadn't planned it.
36:40Yeah.
36:40You know, she thought about what...
36:41You can tell it's organic.
36:42That's just how she feels
36:43and the way that she felt about the whole moment.
36:45She's on a 100-to-one shot, Prince of Penzance,
36:47and she... but she was...
36:49Did she think about it the night before?
36:51It was just her.
36:52You know, that was the thing.
36:53We can't talk about Australian women in sport
36:56without touching on Ash Barty over the last 20 years too.
36:58Yeah, look, I was thinking my favourite sports person
37:02over the last 20 years,
37:03I think it's a podium Elyse Perry would be on it
37:05because she has lived that women's story.
37:08Sam Kerr obviously has gone from, you know...
37:11She's global.
37:12Growing up in Perth, you know, her favourite sport
37:14probably would have been to play for the West Coast Eagles
37:16and she became the world's best female footballer.
37:19But, to me, it's Ash Barty.
37:20The story is incredible.
37:2215-year-old prodigy,
37:23when Barry was just starting this program,
37:25won Wimbledon as a junior,
37:27spoke then as a teenager about mental health battles
37:30when it was tough to talk about mental health issues.
37:33She quit.
37:35She went and played cricket in the inaugural Big Bash season.
37:38The Brisbane Heat.
37:38Never been to a training session,
37:40had no training in cricket whatsoever
37:42and then Casey Dillacqua talks her into coming back
37:45and she wins three Grand Slams, the French, the Wimbledon
37:48and then decides before the Australian Open,
37:51you know what, at 25, I just want to go and be a mum.
37:54And her last ever match was that.
37:56That's iconic vision with Yvonne Goulagon-Cawley
37:59who is arguably the best Australian sports story of all time.
38:0125, number one in the world, just won your home Grand Slam
38:04and gone, you know what, my values actually are.
38:07Family and living it.
38:08People can talk about the fact that what they value,
38:10but she's such a great example of someone who actually...
38:12Number one for two years as well, let's not forget.
38:15So it's an extraordinary story.
38:16And have you seen a swing of a golf club?
38:18Oh, apparently she's immaculate.
38:20She's been in the pro-celebrity sort of stuff.
38:22She'll take up darts soon.
38:24Well, she did just have her second,
38:25so I don't know how much time she has for golf now,
38:27but she seems to be enjoying her time
38:28and we do just love Ash.
38:30But as much as we love to celebrate,
38:32we also need to look back at some of the problems
38:33that we've seen over the last 20 years
38:35and, unfortunately, cheating has been one of them.
38:38It's rocked the faith of many sports fans.
38:40And more than a decade ago, John,
38:42you were on the panel discussing just what this involved.
38:46There's a broader issue at the moment too in the public, I think,
38:49and that is the degree to which people are trusting sport.
38:52You know, that's the conversation that's being had.
38:54And an old mate of mine from the North Fitzroy Arms is sort of coming
38:57saying, what's going on at the moment?
39:00You know, how are these things happening?
39:02Kelly and also Ange Poscoglu, whatever happened to him also on the panel there?
39:06But it was a massive talking point.
39:08It was. I mean, sport, we grow up with it.
39:11We love it. It's joyful.
39:12We come to sort of believe in it as kids.
39:15And then we get a little bit older
39:17and that belief is eroded to a degree
39:20because sports consistently...
39:23We need that belief nourished
39:25and it is consistently nourished by great games and whatever else.
39:28But it's eroded as well. It's challenged.
39:31And so the discussion is always there.
39:33And the older you get, perhaps the more cynical you do get.
39:36I think it's tipped back in the balance of being able to believe what we watch
39:39and maybe that's in the science.
39:41And it's not to say we don't...
39:43It can't be Pollyanna.
39:45Yeah.
39:45And we've developed our calluses through Ben Johnson
39:48and Hansi Cronje and Lance Armstrong.
39:52I do remember the phase when the Tour de France was happening
39:55and Floyd Landers produced an extraordinary ride on the Friday night
40:01and by the Sunday morning it had already been revealed to be cheating.
40:04It was just so brazen.
40:05So I do think the science has played a role
40:09in imposing a level of authenticity and catching the cheats.
40:17I'm not...
40:18Like Icarus taught us that we thought the age of state-sponsored cheating had passed,
40:23but the Russians had gone back to the Cold War without anybody realising.
40:26But I do think I'm more confident now in believing what we see
40:32than maybe at the start of 20 years ago.
40:34I think Usain Bolt has played a huge role in that.
40:38And then what followed.
40:39So, yeah, I do think we're in a fight you can give your heart over to it.
40:43That's much more likely to be lasting than it was for a period.
40:47And maybe cheating's too strong a word.
40:50I think there's some cynicism around manipulation.
40:52You know, the capacity for a sporting organisation, a league, for example,
40:58to manipulate the draw.
41:00You know, the AFL are ultimately kingmakers.
41:02They can make it easy for North Melbourne or very difficult to North Melbourne
41:05if they're trying to push them up to the Gold Coast.
41:06You know, that was the argument 15 years ago.
41:10But they're in a very powerful position.
41:12And I think lots of...
41:15There is a critical mind in Australia amongst sports followers.
41:20And I think if you lose that audience of the critically minded
41:23for the sake of an audience at the other end
41:26where mass marketing techniques are bringing those eyeballs in,
41:30you sort of, what are you doing?
41:32You know, you're losing the people who have most loved your sport.
41:35So I think that's something for those administrators and organisers
41:39to keep in mind.
41:40I do think, by and large, we now feel good watching sport
41:43and we feel good about our stars.
41:45And there were times there with particular sports
41:47at one end of the pendulum where you thought,
41:48how do I feel about what I'm watching and is it real?
41:51Whereas I feel like we've landed in a nice place.
41:53But where there's sport and where there's money,
41:55there's always going to be those that try to tip it one way or the other.
41:58Yeah.
41:59Yeah, absolutely.
42:00I mean, you said it perfectly.
42:01Whenever there's big money around,
42:03people are always going to try and cheat.
42:05There'll always be people trying to cheat.
42:07And people censor themselves.
42:09Imagine if you've been on the path since four years old,
42:12you know, and there's an opportunity.
42:15You wind up being a 78 kilogram second row
42:18of playing for your school.
42:19And the coach comes along and says,
42:21mate, if you're 102 kilos, we'd look at you.
42:25Where do you find those 24 kilos?
42:27You know, they're the sort of temptations.
42:30But a big test for me, Abby, I'm lachrymose.
42:34I will be brought to tears, even on this show on occasions.
42:37So sport can bring you to tears.
42:40Oh, and at its best, it could and it should.
42:42And that's the beauty of sport.
42:43And that's what we've seen over the last 20 years.
42:45But if we are going to touch on a big part of this show,
42:50Ange Postacoglu has been on this panel many a time.
42:52He sat on the couch with you all,
42:54and he showed his passion and his dream for Australian football.
42:58And Jared, I know that you've watched his growth very closely.
43:00I think he's the most significant figure in Australian sport
43:03over the past 20 years.
43:04And we do have a stake in that.
43:07He was unemployed on a football front
43:09and a panellist here on Offsiders,
43:10and we would call A-League games together.
43:13He goes on to lead Brisbane Raw to two thrilling A-League titles,
43:17takes Australia to an Asian Cup,
43:19takes us to a World Cup in emergency circumstances,
43:21qualifies for the next,
43:23then goes to Japan and wins the J-League,
43:25goes and does the Scottish Triple Crown with Celtic,
43:28and then into the EPL as the first Australian to coach there.
43:32He breaks the 17-year drought for Spurs.
43:34And it's just so daft what happened and the passage of time.
43:38You didn't need hindsight to realise how ridiculous it was
43:40that they sacked him,
43:41but now we have the beauty of hindsight to see it.
43:45And then he's back, unemployed on a football front,
43:48talking nothing but common sense in a sporting environment
43:51as we've heard in a podcast in the past week.
43:53So that full circle.
43:55I can't wait to see where he coaches again next,
43:57because if you pay any attention,
43:59if you spend any time with him,
44:01if you listen to him,
44:02you understand that there's a philosophical battle around codes,
44:06a philosophical battle around tactics.
44:08This is a man that lives and breathes his sport.
44:11We do actually have a message from Ange.
44:13Thank you very much, Kelly, for lining this up.
44:15Here he is.
44:16Hi, all.
44:17I just want to congratulate the Offsiders on a 20-year anniversary.
44:21I really love my time on the couch there in the studio
44:25with all the people I shared it with.
44:27Love talking about the game I'm passionate about,
44:30but also my angst and suffering as a blue supporter.
44:34My love of Victorian cricketers and getting sage advice from Roy,
44:39particularly around the virtues of rugby league.
44:40So I really enjoyed my time.
44:43Some brilliant people.
44:45Love the fact that I was given the platform to talk about it myself.
44:48So well done, Offsiders,
44:51and no doubt a fun 20 more years to come.
44:54Highlights how he's remained grounded all the way through.
44:56Flicked him an email at his home in London this week,
44:59and of course it came back straight away.
45:01So I do remember Barry and then the then executive producer
45:06of the program Georgia Spokes coming together and talking
45:09and recognising because he couldn't...
45:10Gerard's right.
45:11He was on the Australian soccer football Scrappy
45:14when this show started,
45:15and he couldn't get an assistant coaching role in the A-League.
45:18And they came together and saw that he'd spoken
45:21and they thought he was so articulate.
45:22He got the job at Brisbane Roar.
45:24He did crosses on a Sunday morning into this program
45:27when his team was playing in the A-League Grand Finals that night.
45:30Oh!
45:31That was just...
45:32Actually, you just don't get it.
45:33He was.
45:33So, again, credit to Barry's a TV genius that pinpointed him
45:38and gave him the opportunity to show us how articulate, you know, he is.
45:42And I think the philosophical element to him,
45:45people matter to him, you know,
45:46and ultimately sports about people.
45:49Not only that, it's a particular way of playing the game.
45:53Like, it's the Malcolm Blight way.
45:55You know, you score four, we score five.
45:57Yes.
45:57And so that's great to watch.
46:00And it's wonderful to watch someone be Aussie Ange
46:02and how we own them on the world stage.
46:04But, obviously, when we look back and you get a bit retrospective,
46:07you think about where sport has always been in the Australian psyche
46:10and where it is now.
46:12Do you think sport is as important as ever?
46:14I do.
46:16Absolutely.
46:17You know, it takes its hits.
46:20But if I can use my local community as an example,
46:23and this is a big thing in sport is the distance between big sport,
46:27super sport and community sport.
46:29So, I'm living in the Barossa Valley.
46:31We've got a population of 25,000.
46:34Of course, we've got footy and netball.
46:36We've got Barossa United Football Club.
46:3832 teams.
46:39Wow.
46:40You know, six girls' teams,
46:43women's and girls' teams.
46:44We have a rugby club, the Barossa Rams.
46:47You know, we have the traditional sports as well
46:50and they're reported in the local paper
46:52and kids just, that's what you do.
46:54And it's kids.
46:54You play.
46:55It's the way that you can actually engage the kids
46:57and something that we've seen is the rise and rise of smartphones
47:00and also this push of social media
47:02and the way that we consume sport.
47:04Do we see social media and these sort of changes
47:07to paywalls and access as a positive thing or a negative thing?
47:10I think both.
47:11It's transformed the way that we watch our sport.
47:14We watch sport on phones and then we watch sport
47:17or a generation will watch sport in clips
47:19rather than necessarily full games.
47:21This iconic footage is such a great example on the plane.
47:23When we started, we'd read the newspaper in the morning,
47:26we'd have the hourly radio news
47:28and then the 6pm news at night.
47:30That's how we took in our sport.
47:33So sport changes with its times
47:35and this is where I think it's more fundamental than ever before.
47:38It remains our core and it remains our fabric.
47:41It's how we measure our national worth
47:43and I think we've seen that over the days of the Winter Olympics
47:46and the soaring sense of pride, the ingenuity and the commitment
47:49that goes to be Australian and succeed in those circumstances.
47:54Sport has never been a distraction.
47:56I think that is a depiction that has always been wrong.
47:59It's intrinsic to who we are.
48:00Sometimes the sharpest prism with which we can view the issues of life
48:05are through sport and I do think the 20 years of conversations
48:08on this program would speak to that.
48:10And when we have those singular moments,
48:12this is a fractious world, but sport binds us in a way
48:15that nothing else does.
48:16So you used to belong to a church or a political party.
48:19You belong to a sporting organisation now,
48:22either locally or more broadly.
48:23And when Adam Scott wins to the Masters or Cadet Evans wins
48:26to the Tour de France, the capacity to draw us all together,
48:29it remains the most binding force in our lives.
48:33Those moments are so important
48:34and we are unfortunately running out of time,
48:36which is always going to happen when we have such wonderful panelists.
48:38But I will ask you to quickly touch on what are those,
48:41what is the pinnacle?
48:41What's the one moment for you over the 20 years?
48:43Well, I've just changed mine on the spot because,
48:46responding to Gerard's comment,
48:48we want to watch things collectively
48:49and nothing more attractive than the Matildas in that World Cup,
48:56where the Barossa soccer club, football club,
48:58Barossa United, rather than just watching it in our lounge rooms,
49:01we all went to the clubhouse,
49:03which is the local family pub there,
49:05because we wanted to watch it together.
49:07And even if you were watching at home,
49:08you knew the neighbours were as well.
49:09That was the beauty of it, Kel.
49:11And there's a reason why it was the most popular show.
49:13Yeah, and when you asked me that, what was the best moment,
49:15I thought, I'm going to leave it up to the viewers to decide.
49:17I went back to the highest rating program over the last 20 years.
49:20Surprise, surprise.
49:22It was that moment in this famous moment in Brisbane,
49:25when the grandstand shook.
49:27Of course, the Matildas penalty shootout,
49:29Courtney Vine, to get it through to the semifinals.
49:32That was a damn bustingly big moment.
49:36I must put in there as well, when COVID hit,
49:39people were saying to me, I was hosting the program at the time,
49:41how are you going to do a show about nothing?
49:42I thought, well, that's been done before by Seinfeld.
49:44But what it showed me during that two-year pandemic
49:48is that when life became really small and simple,
49:52sport became even more powerful.
49:54As Gerard said, it binds us, it connects us, it enrages us,
49:57it inspires us and it makes us happy.
50:00Abi, Gerard?
50:01Well, racing's always been a big part of the show
50:03by Barry's insistence.
50:05So we live through the age of black caviar and winks.
50:07I always think in sport there's the tussle
50:09between what's enshrined forever,
50:11carbine, far-lap, tulloch, what's untouchable?
50:14And then recency bias.
50:15But we did have two horses who take their place
50:18in the pillars of Australian racing.
50:20Black caviar with a triumphant Royal Ascot
50:21and winks who followed.
50:23We lived through that in real time.
50:25We appreciated the stories.
50:26And they become the markers
50:28through which everything that follows will be made.
50:32And I'll also say that what did we do that lasted on off-siders?
50:37Geoff Kennett sat between John Harms and I
50:40one day after Hawthorne had won the 2008 grand final over Geelong
50:43and he cast the Kennett curse,
50:45which lasted gloriously for years to come.
50:48And sport is the poorer, John,
50:50for the fact that the Kennett curse
50:51is still not in operation today.
50:53I'll never forget it.
50:54Gerard and I are looking,
50:55what's he saying?
50:56And we just keep going, Geoff, keep going.
50:58A show about sport and we finish with Geoff Kennett.
51:01There you go.
51:02But no, it has been a wonderful 20 years.
51:04Hopefully 20 to come.
51:05Thank you for all of your work in building a wonderful show.
51:08And it is a privilege to be a small part
51:10of the vehicle that you built.
51:11So thank you so much.
51:12And thank you, of course, to all the people behind the scenes
51:14and all the wonderful producers that make this show what it is.
51:18It's an absolute joy.
51:19And we couldn't decide if we wanted to close out the show
51:21by celebrating our most beloved national team in the Tillys
51:25or our most successful in the Australian women's cricket team.
51:28So we thought, why not choose a star who's played for both?
51:31Elise Perry.
51:32I mean, imagine having scored a World Cup goal
51:35and a test double century.
51:36And she's not done yet.
51:38Thanks for watching.
51:58She's driven down.
51:59She's taken off.
52:00And she's done it.
52:02And Rhys Perry brings up her 200 in style.
52:05She's taken off.
52:05Never goes down.
52:06You know, she was really close.
52:08And she's gone.
52:08But because herzlich survolus
52:11and people have Mrs.
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