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00:02Previously on Sister Wives One-on-One,
00:04let's take a look at this clip.
00:06I got in this place where I was like,
00:09backdoor deal almost with Janelle.
00:10Hey, we'll just sell it out from under these other two.
00:13How are they?
00:15That is so wrong.
00:17I'm so mad.
00:20Why is Janelle calling this a power play by you?
00:24Because she got caught backstabbing Mary, I guess.
00:28I don't know.
00:28There was no backdoor deal.
00:30There wasn't.
00:31I wanted to apologize for how we broke up,
00:36for how it all went down.
00:38I want to apologize for being angry about it.
00:42Where in the hell is Robin at?
00:43This is weird.
00:44Your ex-husband across the table from you saying,
00:48I did love you.
00:49Shouldn't it have been couples?
00:50Why wasn't Robin there?
00:52So why didn't you go?
00:56Because this isn't about me.
00:58Okay.
00:59I can appreciate that David was offended,
01:01but if I feel like telling Christine I love her,
01:04or that I loved her,
01:07that's not breaking bro code to me.
01:09That was part of his testimony,
01:11and sort of his enlightenment.
01:14That's not my problem.
01:15He wanted to be able to release the people in his life,
01:18so they can go on and live their lives.
01:20Oh, so you're his property then, huh?
01:21Yeah.
01:22Is that the way you put it?
01:23Is that the property?
01:26This is Sister Wives One-on-One.
01:31Is that a release?
01:33That doesn't make any sense at all.
01:35When Christine says she was done and she left,
01:37that point she was gone.
01:39There was no releasing from him on that part.
01:42That means that he has control of her.
01:45That's a power play.
01:47That's a power game, mental game.
01:49You don't do that to a human being.
01:51Would Robin being there made it better,
01:53made this whole conversation a little bit more comfortable,
01:56especially the whole, I did love you part?
01:58I don't think he should have said it at all.
02:01Okay.
02:01Even if Robin was present.
02:02No, no, no.
02:03All he needed to do was say,
02:04I apologize for my actions.
02:06And then let's let it go.
02:07Let it go with that.
02:08He could just say,
02:09I apologize for my actions,
02:10and then leave it there.
02:12If Robin was there,
02:13I think the whole thing would have been like,
02:15okay, maybe we can go ahead
02:17and make some things work and things like that.
02:19With him not bringing her,
02:21I thought it was disrespectful to her
02:23for him to say that without her there.
02:25Okay, so there's no trip in the Moab in the future.
02:28Oh, God.
02:28No, there's no trip in Moab.
02:30He wouldn't go with me.
02:31We are not going to do that.
02:32I think Christine was maybe a little offended
02:36about the apology.
02:37Oh.
02:38Yeah.
02:39She was offended about the apology?
02:40Well, I think she was like, you know,
02:42this is my husband.
02:43She felt like it was inappropriate.
02:45You know, I don't need you to say
02:46that you love me in front of my husband.
02:49Okay.
02:50Yeah, so I don't know where else he would have said it
02:52except for trying to be responsible.
02:53That's why he wanted David there.
02:55Like, this is appropriate enough because he's here.
02:58I'm not saying this while her husband's not there.
03:01Got it.
03:01Does that make sense?
03:02And that was a big deal for him to say
03:04because it was so wrong of him to say
03:07and really not a truth.
03:09Do you think he can ever be friends?
03:12Um, I don't know the answer to that.
03:17That doesn't mean that we can't be friends.
03:20It means we should be friendly until trust is re...
03:28Until trust is resurrected, because it's dead.
03:31Mm-hmm.
03:33All right.
03:34So Janelle had the honor of being the first wife
03:38that you gave the olive branch to to receive your apology.
03:41Yeah.
03:41To be fair, I wanted to go to Janelle first
03:44because I thought she'd be the kindest.
03:47If I had to pick somebody who was going to do this first with...
03:50But I had made everything right with Coyote Pass with her.
03:53I'd made everything right with her
03:55on all of our property agreements.
03:56So I figured that it'd be the safest going that direction.
04:00She was calm.
04:01She was clear.
04:02And the conversation, it felt...
04:04It felt good.
04:05But let's take a look at it
04:07and we'll explain where your head was
04:10when you were talking and giving the apology.
04:13I think the meanest thing that I did
04:16was I said, I didn't love you.
04:19And that wasn't true.
04:21That was a lie from the perspective of pain.
04:24I knew. I knew it.
04:26I knew that you loved me. I did.
04:28Like, I know that we had a great relationship.
04:32Because I knew...
04:33I knew how it was for all those years.
04:36Do you know what I mean?
04:37When you and I got married,
04:38I remember this affection that we shared.
04:44I wish I would have seen the need
04:47for you and I to protect our special place.
04:53If I would have understood that,
04:56I think it would have been a lot safer for you.
04:59I feel like I put you in harm's way
05:03and that it didn't step up to protect you.
05:08Wow. Thank you.
05:09Because I frequently would think about you and I
05:14and become very, very aware
05:16of how unsafe plural marriage was for you
05:23and for that.
05:24And the fact that I didn't protect...
05:27Like...
05:27We didn't know.
05:29We didn't have no idea.
05:29Geez, Janelle.
05:30There was no book or anyone advising us.
05:34No, there wasn't.
05:34But it was...
05:35It was like...
05:37So...
05:37And I don't even want to blame plural marriage
05:39as difficult as that situation is.
05:41No, it was just that we didn't...
05:42We didn't know how to protect our relationship.
05:44I feel like we've needed an olive branch,
05:46the entire family.
05:47And Janelle, you get the high owner.
05:50What?
05:50And being the person I felt the safest with
05:52to start offering that olive branch.
05:56I think Janelle is like processing
05:57because there was a lot thrown out there.
05:59But what really stuck out to me
06:01was the fact that you were apologizing
06:02for the early years.
06:04Yeah.
06:04Where both of you were unsafe
06:06and you were getting emotional thinking
06:07about it right now.
06:08I remember the experience
06:09when we first got married.
06:11There was just a desire she had
06:16to be a safe place for me.
06:22And we didn't protect it well enough.
06:24We lost the plot.
06:26How?
06:28There's a perceived loss of resource, I guess,
06:30when you enter into plural marriage.
06:32Get that second wife.
06:34Neither of them feel like they're getting enough.
06:35They start competing to get more.
06:38There's a lot of times I felt like
06:40it cost me my own happiness
06:41because I couldn't ever keep them happy.
06:44It was like I was empathetic enough to go,
06:46well, she's not happy and she's not happy.
06:48And it was just a mixture of just a major struggle.
06:54Your overall reaction?
06:56Yeah, I mean, it was very sweet.
06:58I thought it was very sweet.
06:59And there was definitely, you know,
07:01old time connection, I think, between us.
07:03Some of that old nostalgia.
07:04But what was the most healing, I think, for me,
07:08was to hear him apologize about the early years
07:10because we really did struggle on how to live plural marriage.
07:15How did you end up coming into the family?
07:17Was it Mary that brought you into the family?
07:21No.
07:21Actually, they both sort of pursued me.
07:25Oh, they both courted you.
07:26I guess.
07:27I, like, I had started to,
07:31I had really started to, like, embrace the faith,
07:34like, fundamentalist approach to the faith.
07:37So I was already there.
07:38I was already kind of leaning into that.
07:42And Cody and Mary were my friends.
07:44There was always, like, a little bit of a sparkle, I guess.
07:50Mm-hmm.
07:50You know?
07:53And you have to realize when we get,
07:54when you get married and you're not,
07:57and you're already married, you know,
07:59if someone's already married
08:00and you're considering marrying them,
08:01there's not a lot of dating.
08:03There's not a lot of getting to know each other.
08:05It's more like a very spiritual thing.
08:07There's a lot of prayer involved,
08:08a lot of spiritual kind of whisperings
08:12or inklings and inspiration
08:14that that's where you belong.
08:16What were the early years like for the three of you?
08:18Because they, he's alluding to certain things.
08:20Yeah.
08:21The early years were a challenge.
08:23You know, we're all very young.
08:25Yeah.
08:26We had history even in the early years.
08:30You know what I mean?
08:31History meaning the connection to each other?
08:33Yeah.
08:33Let me do the math.
08:34Yep.
08:34So you and Janelle were friends.
08:37Janelle and I were sisters-in-law.
08:39She was married to my brother.
08:40You were sister-in-law.
08:40Okay.
08:40So Janelle and you were sisters-in-law.
08:42Mm-hmm.
08:42And then you married Cody.
08:44Mm-hmm.
08:45And then Janelle came into the family through you?
08:51I wouldn't say through me,
08:53but that's how she and Cody knew each other
08:55because she was my sister-in-law.
08:57Okay.
08:59She was always really close with my parents after she and my brother split,
09:04which was after Cody and I got married.
09:09And she just kind of was present, you know?
09:12So we stayed in each other's lives.
09:14So how did you become sister wives then?
09:17Well, they decided that it was a good connection and she was interested in plural marriage and we all talked
09:29about it.
09:29He and I talked about it.
09:31They talked about it.
09:32That's just how it works.
09:33And you prayed and that's how it was.
09:35Yeah.
09:35So when we were all first married, we all lived together in a very small trailer.
09:42And personality conflicts between Mary and I, what they were, it was pretty volatile.
09:50It could have been.
09:50It was pretty volatile.
09:51But what were you guys fighting about if it was volatile?
09:54No, it was just nitpicky.
09:56Like I didn't clean the dishes right or I left.
10:02You brought up the dishes last time I asked this question.
10:05Because it was a thing.
10:06So the dishes were a big thing.
10:07It was a thing.
10:08Yeah, it was a thing.
10:08Like I remember, you know, just little things.
10:10Like little, when you're just being nitpicky with someone, just finding all those things, right?
10:14I can remember one time the argument was about that I didn't put the drain catcher thingy.
10:24And so too much food or too much stuff was going down the drain when we washed dishes.
10:28Well, I just started putting a lot more food down the drain.
10:32I'm like, I'll show you.
10:35But it was just like sort of childish, but I think it was just a symptom.
10:40It was an expression of the conflict, I think, that you're going through as you sort out who you are,
10:46who your identity is,
10:47and being strong and understanding that you have worth and you are equal.
10:51Well, Janelle mentioned that there was a lot of moments that was very tense.
10:55Yeah.
10:55What were you guys fighting about?
10:57I don't know.
10:57That was like 30-something years ago.
11:00I know that she likes to bring up the way that the towels were folded or something like that, you
11:06know?
11:06Dishes.
11:07She brought up dishes.
11:08How the dishes were washed.
11:09She always liked to do the dishes in the morning, like after they sat all night.
11:16And I'm like, let's just wake up in the morning and have a clean kitchen.
11:19Let's get them done at night, you know?
11:21And so there was feelings about stupid things like dishes, you know what I mean?
11:26And so my point in saying all that is it's dumb stuff that we thought was important.
11:33And you look back and it's like, it's really not.
11:35But it caused challenges.
11:38I tried to tell them, don't talk to me about your problems with each other.
11:43You've got to work those out yourself because I felt like one's pitting me against the other.
11:48And so I finally said, you guys have got to start working out these problems.
11:53And they didn't.
11:54They worked out very poorly.
11:57And I probably should have been back in there refereeing, but I'm a terrible referee.
12:02So did you feel like you were unable to protect Janelle from Mary?
12:08Or vice versa.
12:09You know what I'm saying?
12:11It's like, it wasn't a matter of protecting Janelle from Mary or protecting Mary from Janelle.
12:16It was a matter that whatever it was, there was a dissatisfaction in the experience.
12:24But you also mentioned in the apology that, you know, you put Janelle in harm's way.
12:29What did you mean by that?
12:30Um, there's a difficulty and a struggle that I couldn't protect her from.
12:39And that my efforts in loving her or reassuring her maybe weren't strong enough, focused enough.
12:51I know she didn't feel safe.
12:56Maybe Mary didn't either.
12:57But Mary fought different.
13:00And so she seemed like she was perfectly fine.
13:04And looking back, I, I don't know what I could have done.
13:09But I'm sorry that I didn't do it.
13:12I, I'm just.
13:17How did Mary fight that was different than Janelle?
13:20Yeah, she just willing to scrap.
13:23Willing to scrap.
13:24When you say scrap, what does that mean?
13:26She's just willing to get right in your face and, and, and do the yelling and the, and the escalation
13:32and the fighting.
13:34It's just like, and in front of anybody.
13:36Does plural marriage not allow space for that emotional intimacy?
13:46I don't know.
13:51I don't know how it could.
13:53Yeah.
13:53And I don't like to throw lifestyles under the bus.
13:57You know, this is, some people I'm sure find great satisfaction in their plural marriages.
14:01But I think most people don't.
14:03So as far as emotional intimacy means that when you're with someone, you're really with them.
14:10And you love them for that person.
14:12It's not like there's always someone else in back.
14:14Because go on a trip with Cody.
14:17Well, I know that he has wives at home.
14:19And I know that he has relationships with those wives at home.
14:23And that was always on his mind.
14:24You know, even though he's trying to compartmentalize, I know that it, how can it be possible?
14:31Do you think the other wives would agree with you that Cody is capable of emotional intimacy?
14:37I don't know if I care if they would agree with that anymore.
14:41Not to be rude, but I just can't worry about that anymore.
14:45I know that he is.
14:46And I know that he did in the past.
14:48I saw it and I, yeah, I witnessed it.
14:54So in the early years, did you not have enough emotional resources in the tank to love,
15:00two women at the same time?
15:02No, I had enough resources in the tank to love two women at the same time.
15:05But they've got to accept the love.
15:07They've got it.
15:08It's like if you're super high maintenance, it's going to become a problem probably.
15:12Who was high maintenance?
15:14Well, Janelle wasn't.
15:16Coming up.
15:17When you asked me to go back in the past and think about it, my head starts to spin like
15:24there was nothing I could do.
15:26Cody and Janelle failed to recognize that possibly some of the issues that I had in polygamy could have stemmed
15:35from the fact that, oh, they wanted to get married on my birthday.
15:40They're like, it doesn't matter, we'll just celebrate it a different day.
15:44Like, excuse me, it does matter.
15:51Who was high maintenance?
15:53Well, Janelle wasn't.
15:54So, Mary was high maintenance.
15:56And then in that, if I was to sit and go back and analyze, I loved Janelle, but Mary was
16:09more emotionally open.
16:16I don't understand that.
16:17Can you explain that, please?
16:18Oh, gosh.
16:19Um.
16:20You loved Janelle, but Mary was more emotionally open.
16:24Mary was, um.
16:27But in the same breath, you said that Mary was high maintenance.
16:31She was, eh.
16:33And when you asked me to go back in the past and think about it, my head starts to spin
16:38like there was nothing I could do.
16:41And there's nothing I could say, do, or behave like to make that experience pleasant and easy perpetually.
16:55And I'm not talking about the difficulties in regular marriage.
16:59This is way beyond that.
17:01And if I hadn't have been, like, ridiculously optimistic, I don't know if we would have survived.
17:08I had a lot of emotions based on the way that, for instance, Janelle came into the family.
17:16And the way that, you know, like, just different situations like that.
17:20Explain that one about Janelle coming into the family.
17:23Oh, well, people don't.
17:27I'm not just going to say people.
17:28I'm going to say Cody.
17:29Cody and Janelle failed to recognize that possibly some of the issues that I had in polygamy could have stemmed
17:39from the fact that, oh, they wanted to get married on my birthday.
17:44They had planned to get married on my birthday.
17:47It wasn't until his mom got involved and was like, no, don't do that.
17:51Yeah, they're like, it doesn't matter.
17:53We'll just celebrate it a different day.
17:54Like, excuse me, it does matter.
17:57You know, so let's start the marriage relationship, the family relationship with that.
18:03That's crazy.
18:04And they forget that, oh, there might have been some emotions involved with the fact that she used to be
18:10married to my brother.
18:12I always wondered that.
18:14So tell me what kind of emotions were involved with that.
18:18There's a lot of emotion.
18:18There is a lot of emotion.
18:20She has said, she has said that when she met Cody, she had these feelings of, oh, my goodness, I
18:31knew him.
18:32It's like I met this person that I just, you know, it's like he was part of me.
18:37I don't remember exactly her words.
18:39I don't want to put words into her mouth.
18:41I had one of those moments before I even started to consider being in their family, and I didn't even
18:47know what to do with it.
18:48I was at Mary's house because I knew Mary's family, and they were having a bunch of people over for
18:56something I don't remember.
18:57And Cody walked in the room, and it was the first time I'd seen him, and there was this moment
19:02of like, oh, there you are.
19:04Kind of like you remember somebody that you haven't seen for a long time.
19:07It was very distinct.
19:09But I wasn't even hanging out with them really as friends, and I just put it away because I'm like,
19:16I don't know what that means.
19:16And then all of a sudden you're being asked to be a part of this plural marriage.
19:20Did Cody know that you saw him at Mary's house and that you had this feeling?
19:25I think I told him later.
19:27Yeah.
19:27And actually, I asked to be in their family.
19:29They never asked me.
19:30Oh.
19:31I knew them as a couple, and I just felt inspired to say, look, I think I belong in your
19:36family.
19:36And so we went and spoke to the church leadership, and we all fasted and prayed together, and we felt
19:44like it was the right thing.
19:45Like, it was just this very intense thing.
19:49And I remember her saying that when she saw him, she wanted her sons to have his build.
19:58Cody's got a nice build, right?
20:00And she wanted that.
20:01And I'm just like, you don't think that those things might be a little bit troublesome to the wife that
20:10you used to be the sister-in-law of?
20:13You know what I mean?
20:14And so my point in saying that is not to throw him or her under the bus.
20:19It's just to say these are facts.
20:21I had emotions, and I was the one who was in trouble for having these emotions.
20:29Now, I was probably in trouble more for how I reacted, because you know what?
20:34Sometimes I would cry, and sometimes I would like, come on, Cody, I need some more attention.
20:39Okay, so you're not even married to Cody, and you're having these feelings already.
20:44Why didn't you say no to Janelle coming into the family?
20:48No, no, no.
20:49I didn't have these feelings until she was coming into the family.
20:52Okay.
20:53Because I didn't know that she had those thoughts until she was coming into the family, and even later after
20:59she was in the family.
21:00But you knew that she had already been married to your brother, and you had those intense feelings about that.
21:05Yeah.
21:05That aspect of it, I mean, when you think about it, that's weird.
21:11That's awkward.
21:12That's uncomfortable.
21:13Yeah.
21:14It was very uncomfortable.
21:15But you never said anything like, hey, Cody, that's awkward.
21:17She used to be married to my brother.
21:19I did.
21:20Now you want to marry her and bring her into this polygamous family.
21:24I did.
21:24Yeah, I did.
21:24We talked about it.
21:26But, like, I was not supposed to have those thoughts or feelings or emotions about it.
21:33Like, I was the one who was in the wrong for having those.
21:36Why?
21:36We're supposed to endure to the end, and we're supposed to live this way because this is what's going to,
21:42you know, we're going to gain salvation from it, whatever.
21:45Right.
21:45There's this ideal that everyone has to be a perfect wife, a perfect sister wife, a perfect, and then you
21:50add on to all this perfection that you want to hit.
21:53And, yeah, no, you feel insecure about things.
21:56You feel jealous about things.
21:57All of it.
21:58The whole thing suffering to the end, endure to the end, all of that, it's just sad.
22:03Mm-hmm.
22:03It's just sad that it's this religious expectation that makes you this better person, and it's just hard.
22:12Let's talk a little bit about this next clip that we want to get to.
22:16And it was really a candid conversation.
22:17You have a lot of discussions, which is interesting to see over this past year.
22:22Yeah.
22:22You have discussions on even polygamy.
22:24And the next clip that I want to really talk about is your differing views on polygamy.
22:28Let's take a look at this clip, and then we'll talk after.
22:31Cool.
22:32My thing was, look, if I'm having a bad time with Cody in a bad situation, I don't want to
22:38see him being physically affectionate with other wives in front of me, like a slap in the face.
22:42All it does is create a lot of hate, a lot of jealousy, a lot of control.
22:48I've definitely seen that.
22:49I've talked to friends that their biggest thing is, you know what I love about polygamy?
22:53Is they compete for my love.
22:56Mind games start playing in your head, and you start thinking, well, what's that person doing that I'm not doing?
23:00Can I do better?
23:01And the guy has an eagle.
23:03Oh, they love the fighting.
23:05They love the competition between the women.
23:07I didn't feel like I was being controlled by Cody.
23:09They teach you that it makes you better.
23:11Oh, no.
23:12The famous quote is, endure to the end.
23:15Endure to the end, if you can imagine.
23:17That's sad.
23:18I don't know.
23:19It's an interesting idea in the church culture that we came from that suffering was going to make you better.
23:26I didn't handle myself the best all the time.
23:29I remember being very jealous.
23:32I thought I was living polygamy wrong.
23:34I thought I was a human being wrong.
23:36I thought I was a woman wrong, a wife wrong.
23:39I couldn't even have a baby, for heaven's sakes.
23:42It was hard.
23:44So, Christine, do you agree with David's perception of polygamy?
23:48I think, overall, it's just hard.
23:51I just can't look at it like that because I have a family that still lives it.
23:55But then it comes down to it.
23:57And he's right.
23:58He's right.
23:59I see more sadness in polygamy than anything else.
24:03I look at so many polygamous families, and they don't look happy.
24:06It's just sad.
24:07And it's like, what is the secret sauce here that convinces women to be okay with their husband having this
24:16other relationship with this other woman?
24:18But it makes you better.
24:19So, it's okay.
24:20What is the secret that they tell them?
24:22What is it, you know?
24:23So, it was part of my culture.
24:25So, do you feel like you were indoctrinated into the culture?
24:28Probably.
24:28I would say be indoctrinated.
24:30Yeah, I would say so.
24:31I'm looking on the other side from where, from my experience since I was, you know, two, three years old
24:37into it, that if this is supposed to be a so righteous thing, why is it so miserable?
24:43So, how is it so right?
24:47When I saw David, I was, it just made my stomach just turn, because I think it's wrong to paint
24:53everybody with the brush of your one experience.
24:55And I'm not denying that his sister had this experience.
24:58And I think lots of things happen in monogamy.
25:01I think lots of things happen in all kinds of relationships that can be really screwed up.
25:05Janelle took issue with your description of, you know, polygamy.
25:09And she said it was a very broad brush stroke of what it actually is.
25:14And what you experienced isn't necessarily what other people experienced.
25:20My question to her is, where did you guys go in your family?
25:23Where did it end up now?
25:25They're not together anymore.
25:27And I'm not trying to do that, because it can happen in monogamous.
25:29I was going to say, monogamous couples also divorced.
25:31Oh, I've experienced it in a lot of different religions.
25:35But when I was talking, I was talking about my own experience, what I, why she took it personally, I
25:41have no idea.
25:42Because I wasn't referring to your guys' church at all.
25:45I was talking about my relationship from what I've been since I was a kid down in Mexico.
25:52I think David thinks he knows a lot about plural marriage.
25:55I think he was a kid when his sister was struggling through it and he wanted to protect his sister.
25:59I think he might have noble thoughts about it, but I don't think he knows that much about it.
26:03He associated with a bunch of construction workers that were polygamists or something.
26:07And, you know, I've met some polygamist construction workers that I thought were pigs.
26:13So his reflection has nothing to do with our family.
26:16I hated it when my wives weren't getting along.
26:18When he talks about polygamists, like wanting their wives to be jealous and stuff like that.
26:22You did mention that Janelle and Mary used to compete for attention.
26:31Coming up...
26:32Do you think most polygamists have to have a big ego?
26:35I think that it would be better if you didn't.
26:39I think that having a big ego is what causes problems.
26:43Do you think Cody has a big ego?
26:45Yeah.
26:46Are you okay with his big ego?
26:47It's fine.
26:48It doesn't...
26:49It's...
26:49It's not my problem anymore.
26:55You did mention that Janelle and Mary used to compete for attention.
27:01I wasn't promoting that.
27:03Mm-hmm.
27:03Do you understand what I'm saying?
27:05He's talking about men who are promoting that.
27:08I think that's sick and wrong.
27:09This is my point, is David was looking into polygamy.
27:14I was in it.
27:15He doesn't know anything about it other than from his outside experience.
27:21Which means that he doesn't know Jack.
27:24But David doesn't know that he doesn't know Jack...
27:27Because David thinks he knows Jack...
27:29Now, I've lived plural marriage long enough to know that I don't know Jack...
27:33But David still thinks he knows Jack...
27:35But he doesn't know Jack...
27:37I think he means well.
27:39And you know what?
27:41When you're having a candid conversation like that, you're just...
27:43You're just talking off the handle.
27:46I...
27:46He had an experience and it made him angry about polygamy.
27:51I've been around a lot longer than he's been in it.
27:54I have.
27:55I've witnessed and seen the heartaches of many women down in Mexico...
27:59Being around with my mom and listening to these women all talk.
28:03Listening to the guys talk down there.
28:05It's not like it's a fresh thing since I met Christine.
28:08All of a sudden, I know polygamy.
28:10No, I've been around it my whole life.
28:11I can tell you stories after stories about what happens down there.
28:16And for him to say, that's fine.
28:19But I do know a lot about it.
28:21I have never lived it.
28:22I don't have to understand about how hard it is to have a baby to have one.
28:27You can see it.
28:29Do you believe that Cody has a big ego?
28:31All guys have egos.
28:32It depends on how big or wherever it's at, but he does have an ego.
28:36Mm-hmm.
28:36In the polygamous sector, it is an ego there.
28:39I've had friends that were that way.
28:41They loved it.
28:42One of my friends said one time when I was younger,
28:45you've got to get in polygamy.
28:47It is so much fun.
28:48The competing is awesome.
28:51Do you agree with David's take on this?
28:57David's sister was in a different group, and so that might have been the experience that he had,
29:07but that's not what I ever heard about and saw in my church.
29:11Mm-hmm.
29:12Do you think most polygamists have to have a big ego?
29:15I think that it would be better if he didn't.
29:19I think that having a big ego is what causes the problems.
29:23Does Cody have the big ego?
29:25Cody definitely has a big ego.
29:26He always has.
29:28But, like, I enjoy him.
29:29He's fun, right?
29:31He's fun to hang out with.
29:32He's charismatic.
29:35He's a little bit too cocky.
29:37I don't like cocky.
29:39And that kind of goes along with ego.
29:42So there's times that he does have that.
29:45Mm.
29:46Do you think Cody has a big ego?
29:48Yeah.
29:49Are you okay with his big ego?
29:51It's fine.
29:52It's not my problem anymore.
29:54Yeah.
29:55But I think he has an ego, and I think that's okay.
29:57Do you think all men have to have a big ego in order to be a polygamist?
30:01I think you have to feel pretty confident in who you are.
30:04I don't think it, an ego can be misconstrued.
30:08Like, I think a healthy ego is a good thing.
30:10To feel confident in who you are and being able to lead.
30:14Yeah.
30:14I think that's great.
30:15Okay.
30:15But an ego, like, he's talking about machismo or whatever, like, where it's like,
30:19I'm the man.
30:20Yeah.
30:20Like, that's not, that wouldn't be good.
30:22Did you ever feel that Cody wanted you guys competing for his love?
30:28No.
30:29I never felt like that.
30:30I never felt like I had to compete.
30:31So do you agree with David about the women having to have to compete with each other
30:37for a man's affection in polygamy?
30:39I have seen that happen.
30:42And I don't agree that it has to happen.
30:46I've seen it happen with us.
30:49I've seen it happen in other families.
30:52I've seen it in our family where Cody is willing and able to show love to all of us.
31:00So I don't, I don't agree that it's a, that's something that you could just put a blanket statement on.
31:06Have you ever had that feeling, that feeling that you had to compete for affection?
31:14Coming up.
31:15No.
31:16I'm just here to apologize.
31:17No, I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
31:19I'm going to tell you.
31:20You're not going to shut me down anymore.
31:22Okay?
31:23So I'm going to, I'm going to finish what I'm saying.
31:25Were you surprised that you demanded what you demanded from him?
31:31No, because I'm, I'm done being walked all over by him.
31:36And I don't think that he knows what to do with that.
31:47Have you ever had that feeling, that feeling that you had to compete for affection?
31:53You know, I've never felt like that I had to compete, but I did look at myself and be like,
31:59okay, what do I need to change to be accepted and change to be loved and change to be welcomed
32:06in?
32:07Did you feel like you really did everything wrong?
32:10There were definitely times in my life that I didn't feel like anything that I could do was right.
32:18I mean, I said it, like I couldn't even have a baby.
32:21Something was wrong with me.
32:23You know, I mean, I finally did, but then I couldn't have any more.
32:26And I don't think that any of them thought I was wrong necessarily for having feelings and emotions,
32:33but I don't know that how empathetic they were with it.
32:37Right.
32:37You know, watching them all have babies when I couldn't.
32:41Right.
32:41You know what I mean?
32:42Right.
32:43That's a huge challenge.
32:44It's one thing to watch my sisters or friends or whatever have babies when, when I want them.
32:50Right.
32:50It's a whole other level to watch my husband have them with other people.
32:54The fact that Mary was feeling that she just had one kid that she felt less than.
33:00That was a...
33:00Had she ever shared that with everybody?
33:02Yeah.
33:02Like, can you help me process this?
33:04Can we...
33:04Oh yeah.
33:05And like, there was, there was special circumstances.
33:08Like, each of us would go and tell Mary when we were pregnant before we would tell anyone else.
33:13To help her be able to have the time to process that in time.
33:17You know, just to let her feel supported in that and say, you know, I know this is hard for
33:23you.
33:23And I am pregnant and I love you.
33:27And that's why I offered to do surrogacy for her.
33:31Because I was trying to support that, that part of her, her pain and her story.
33:37I could go back and I can say, they didn't honor me or they didn't, um, they, they, they had
33:44too much contention with each other.
33:46I could sit and blame everything on them.
33:48Yeah.
33:48And what it was, is I was just over my head in leadership that I couldn't manage.
33:53And with that, I want to talk about Mary's apology.
33:57Okay.
33:57Okay.
33:58You sit down with Mary and you offer an apology for years of hurt.
34:04And what we're going to see in the clip is that Mary pushes back.
34:09Ooh.
34:09And she pushes back really hard.
34:11And it was a tough conversation.
34:13I want you to take a look at the clip and then we'll talk about it.
34:16Okay.
34:19I apologize, Mary.
34:22For my part in everything that happened.
34:26Everything.
34:29I apologize.
34:31I want you more than anything to just be able to move on.
34:35I have.
34:37The way your friends talk about me, that doesn't seem like it.
34:40The way.
34:40But I wanted you to be able to do that.
34:42Okay.
34:42You can stop right there.
34:44Listen, this isn't a time for us to fight.
34:46Well, then don't bring up my friends and what they say.
34:49Because guess what?
34:50I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
34:55No, I'm going to tell you this.
34:56Because it'll just ruin.
34:57No.
34:57I'm just here to apologize, Mary.
34:58Not to argue with you.
35:00No, I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
35:01Not to.
35:02You're not going to shut me down anymore.
35:04Okay?
35:04So I'm going to finish what I'm saying.
35:06And when I'm not treated well, the people closest to me will defend me.
35:12And that's what my friends do.
35:16Cody, I would love to have a conversation instead of just sit here and listen to you apologize.
35:20You and I can't talk because we will trigger each other.
35:25Frankly, I kind of lost myself.
35:27Guess what?
35:29I get that.
35:31Back in Vegas, all that time, that was very dark for me.
35:36I apologize that your dark time I wasn't there.
35:41The dark time was because you weren't there.
35:45You don't need this from me, but I tell you I forgive you for that.
35:51This...
35:53I want you to feel like this is about you, but it's really about me and God.
35:57I can tell it's about you.
35:59I don't want it to burden you.
36:00Oh, it's not.
36:02No, no, I just...
36:03It's not. Don't worry.
36:03I sincerely just don't want any of it troubling you.
36:10What's your reaction?
36:12I mean, I kind of chuckled a few times watching it, but I'm like, damn, girl.
36:16Kind of a little bit of a change.
36:19Were you surprised that you demanded what you demanded from him?
36:25No, because I'm done being walked all over by him emotionally.
36:35Mm-hmm.
36:36I'm not going to do that anymore.
36:38Mm-hmm.
36:38And I don't think that he knows what to do with that.
36:43Were you surprised that he even wanted to apologize to you?
36:47Yeah, I think I kind of was.
36:49Yeah.
36:49He has been so set in his ways and his stance and his opinion in what he says and how
36:58he treats me for so long that I just, it shocked me. It surprised me. And I still wonder how
37:07sincere it really was.
37:10Do you think he was being sincere in his apology to her?
37:13Sure.
37:13I do. I mean, at least my experience was it felt very sincere.
37:19But there were times it felt like he was losing his patience with her, you know.
37:24Because they were going back to that dynamic where they were just like irritating each other, I think.
37:29Mm-hmm.
37:30Like she's, she's can be very sharp with her words. And she was very sharp. And I'm not saying she
37:35wasn't justified. She definitely had justification to say all those things.
37:39So what do you think about that conversation?
37:42Oh, sounds like marrying Cody.
37:44What does that mean?
37:45It was just what their relationship was always like. You know, those old fashioned firecrackers.
37:50Hmm.
37:50They just kind of always set each other off. They just, I don't know.
37:56What are your thoughts on that?
37:57Oh, my God. That, yeah, no. That conversation was just for himself. I, all of that. I mean, Mary was
38:03great. That was awesome. That was great. I love it.
38:08She just put him in his place and she's like, this isn't for me. This is all for you. And
38:12it's like, it's between him and God. And the more he talked, the more I'm like, you need to stop.
38:16You need to stop. The more you're talking, the no, no, no, no, no.
38:21Once he started talking about her friends, the conversation really was over.
38:23Would you ever talk to Cody like the way Mary did?
38:30Uh, coming up, how was this experience for you?
38:34She's very angry. I'm gonna, like, this apology may not be easy in any way.
38:40No.
38:40Just because she's still wants to talk about her hurt and what I did wrong.
38:53Would you ever talk to Cody like the way Mary did?
38:58Uh, no. Probably not. No.
39:03Why?
39:04Because I don't, I just don't take him seriously enough.
39:08And I'm like, look, I know you're here for yourself.
39:10I know you need to apologize for yourself.
39:12But me telling him that isn't gonna make a difference.
39:14He's just gonna patronize me.
39:16He's not gonna, then there's no sincerity in the conversation whatsoever.
39:19He would just patronize me.
39:20What, what there triggered you when he started talking about Jenny?
39:25You don't get to talk about my people like that.
39:29You don't get to talk about my people that way.
39:31Mm-hmm.
39:32Don't push me back into a corner, because I will fight.
39:35Do you think Cody understands why this is such a sore subject for you?
39:39Oh, mm, I don't think he gets it.
39:43And I don't think that he thinks I have the right to feel like that.
39:47For whatever reason.
39:48I don't know why.
39:49Because she's just a friend.
39:52Like, he would do the same thing and does do the same thing for Robin, right?
39:59Like, she is his person.
40:01It's what you do for your people.
40:04You know what I mean?
40:05But does he have a right to say anything about her friends?
40:08Well, I think if they have an opinion that they're giving about him, he might have a right to say
40:12something.
40:13Yeah.
40:14Cody's not married to Mary anymore.
40:16If he was married to Mary and treated her with respect, then he gets to have an opinion about her
40:22friends, maybe.
40:23But he's not married to her.
40:24He didn't treat her with respect.
40:26He didn't treat her with kindness, love, nothing.
40:28So he doesn't have a right to voice his opinion about Mary's friends to her.
40:32He can tell Robin about his feelings about Mary's friends because he has respect for her.
40:38But no, he can't.
40:39He can't.
40:40He can't lay claim on that part of her life.
40:42No.
40:43He can't lay claim on any part of Mary's life.
40:45No.
40:46How was this experience for you?
40:49She's very angry.
40:50I'm going to, like, this apology may not be easy in any way.
40:55No.
40:55Just because she still wants to talk about her hurt and what I did wrong.
41:04I mean, I'd rather have a real sincere honesty, like real sincere pushback and get through the process rather than
41:14have her go back to her friends and go, yeah, he was just an asshole.
41:18You know, he was faking his apology or something like that.
41:21Well, she used the word insincere.
41:23Yeah, yeah.
41:24She said she was feeling insincere, that she didn't even know what this was about.
41:27Well, it was because she might have felt the insincerity because it was so awkward.
41:32Why was it so awkward?
41:34Well, we just spent the last six months only communicating through lawyers.
41:38But the last time we were sitting here, you called her your favorite ex-wife.
41:43You moved her out, you know, things looked great and now.
41:46Well, I moved her and she's like, we're going to be nice to each other now, right?
41:50I'm like, yeah.
41:51And what happened?
41:54Well, one of us thought the other drew first blood and went for the jugular.
42:00I mean, we were under the illusion of betrayal.
42:06What I should have been in this place, when I felt like she had done something that offended me, I
42:11should have just let it go.
42:13What did she do to offend you?
42:22Next time on Sister Wives One on One.
42:24There's times where conversations have been had or he'll text or he'll call or something happens.
42:30And so the true Cody then shines through.
42:33And there's times where he said and done things that were really not okay.
42:38Did Jen influence have some sort of influence over Mary's actions to leave the family?
42:46Possibly, yes.
42:47She said to me one time, well, I told Mary that she should, you know, just take all the money
42:52and leave.
42:53And I, at that point, I sort of ended that professional relationship with her because I felt uncomfortable.
42:57She's very sarcastic.
42:59She probably did say it, but I would say in a sarcastic way if she did.
43:03To me, it feels like that this is a story that has just recently been fabricated for whatever reason.
43:10Do you understand why maybe Mary could have a right to distrust you?
43:16No.
43:17No.
43:18I absolutely do not.
43:20But this is why they feel that they can't be friends or trust Robin.
43:25If your wife's having an affair and your other wife tells you, that's my business no matter what.
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