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00:03Previously on Sister Wives One-on-One...
00:06When we were all first married,
00:09personality conflicts between Mary and I, what they were,
00:12it was pretty volatile.
00:16It could have been. It was pretty volatile.
00:18How did Mary fight that was different than Janelle?
00:20She's just willing to scrap.
00:23Willing to scrap.
00:25Just like, and in front of anybody.
00:27Cody and Janelle failed to recognize that possibly
00:32some of the issues that I had in polygamy
00:36could have stemmed from the fact that,
00:39oh, they wanted to get married on my birthday.
00:43They had planned to get married on my birthday.
00:45When you asked me to go back in the past and think about it,
00:49my head starts to spin.
00:52Like there was nothing I could do.
00:54I apologize that you're a dark time. I wasn't there.
00:59The dark time was because you weren't there.
01:02You don't need this from me, but I tell you I forgive you for that.
01:07How was this experience for you?
01:10This apology may not be easy in any way.
01:13But the last time we were sitting here,
01:15you called her your favorite ex-wife.
01:17What happened?
01:18We were under the illusion of betrayal.
01:23What I should have been in the place,
01:25when I felt like she had done something that offended me,
01:28I should have just let it go.
01:30What did she do to offend you?
01:36This is Sister Wives One on One.
01:46I'm asking you a simple question.
01:48What was that?
01:49I don't know.
01:50We still can't.
01:50What was the phone call?
01:51Like Mary and I, when this unraveled.
01:54You keep going like this.
01:54Was it a phone call?
01:55Any phone call.
01:56Every phone call, you know, it just, it doesn't go well.
01:59Okay.
02:00Was there a particular phone call?
02:03Oh, yeah.
02:04That you're talking about it?
02:05There's one I was like, I like, yeah.
02:09I got, I get really tired of Jen trash-talking me,
02:14because I don't, Jen doesn't know me.
02:15Okay.
02:16This is what Jen knows, is whatever Mary's told her.
02:19So Jen's just trash-talking, trash-talking, trash-talking.
02:22And I'm on the phone with Mary once, and I said, I don't think Jen's safe.
02:26She's, I think she's culpable for, partially culpable for our breakup.
02:32Things like this.
02:33And she gets mad, hangs up on me, doesn't talk to me again.
02:36So we're going through lawyers, because every time we talk,
02:40it's an escalation to some kind of problem.
02:44Do you think he was surprised to hear that he was the reason for your dark time?
02:51I don't know if he really grasped that.
02:57I'm not sure if he, I mean, I feel like I was pretty direct,
03:01but I don't know if he really accepted it.
03:05Maybe he did, I don't know.
03:07Yeah, but what was the dark time?
03:08Oh, we all know the dark time. That was like the, the legal divorce.
03:13And that was the fact that our, our, you know, relationship,
03:16we didn't have much of a relationship.
03:18That was, you know, the spiral into the, you know, the catfish episode.
03:23You know what I mean? Like, it was just all of that.
03:25And it was like a couple year process, you know?
03:29And like, just trying to come out of that because like you get in this dark space
03:37and it's really hard to come out of, you know?
03:41I, I'm sorry that she had a dark time in Vegas.
03:44I can't be told that I'm the reason because I, I completely disagree with that.
03:50But I will apologize for not being there for you when you were going through your dark time.
03:55There was a year of time there where, um, I was struggling in my relationship with Mary.
04:02Okay.
04:02I was going to Robin while she was pregnant with our, our youngest, trying to get some consolation.
04:08And Robin said, I, I don't have the energy to give you.
04:11I'm creating this child inside of me.
04:13But Robin was the witness to my suffering in this relationship with Mary that had finally gotten too dark to
04:22reconcile.
04:23And it was, I mean, I had a year there of that experience.
04:28When Mary realized what she was under, this is just my part of the story.
04:33What, what had really happened, Mary had a wake up call.
04:37I think that made her go, oh, I want to stay with this family and work things out.
04:43And I had been given every reason to reconsider it.
04:47And I did.
04:48Did she ever apologize to you for what happened in Vegas?
04:52And if she didn't apologize, is that why you were testing her and testing her and trusting her?
04:57Because you didn't know what else to do.
04:59I believe Mary thinks she's apologized.
05:01I don't remember it.
05:02Okay.
05:03So I, I, I can't say that she didn't.
05:05I won't say that she didn't, but I, I just don't remember it.
05:10And, um.
05:11How do you not remember something like that?
05:13Well, I, I believe that it didn't happen, but I think that Mary said she did apologize.
05:17Did you apologize to Cody for your part in the dark time?
05:22Not in that conversation.
05:23No, that's not what that conversation was for.
05:26That conversation was.
05:26Will you apologize to Cody for your part in the dark time?
05:30Oh, I have.
05:30I have.
05:31Yeah.
05:31No, we've had a lot of conversations about it.
05:34Um, and whether or not he believed or accepted it, that's, that's on him.
05:39Um, but I, I did.
05:42Yeah.
05:42Mm-hmm.
05:43Mm-hmm.
05:44Um, do you want to talk about Mary's ride or die friend, Jen?
05:47Because she seems to bring out a lot of different sides of Mary.
05:50We want to take a look at this clip and then we'll get your opinion on what happened.
05:54Can, can Jen exist without trash talking me?
05:58That's my question.
05:59I don't know.
05:59Let's take a look at the clip.
06:00All right.
06:00Let's see.
06:01See if she's funny without trash talking me.
06:04Jen's definitely my ride or die.
06:06A hundred percent.
06:06She and I have been best friends for like 12 years.
06:09Time for you to end the nice girl era.
06:11Like it's not benefiting you.
06:13It's only benefiting him.
06:15Yeah, it is.
06:16So then why are you doing it?
06:18Because I don't want to be a bitch.
06:20I just feel like it's important for you to have bitch lessons so that you can say the
06:27things that sometimes maybe you think, but then you're like, oh, that shouldn't come
06:31out of my mouth.
06:32And it should, it should come out of your mouth.
06:34Repeat after me.
06:34You do not control me.
06:38You do not control me.
06:40Less smile.
06:41Oh, you don't control me.
06:43Oh, I like that.
06:44That was actually really bitchy.
06:45Bitch.
06:46Comb your hair.
06:48Comb your hair, Cody.
06:51That one felt like it came deep from your soul.
06:54I'm very proud of you.
06:56So what are you thinking?
06:59Well, Mary's always had her voice.
07:02She's always done what she wanted.
07:05She's always pushed, like tried to push me around when we were together.
07:12So I don't know why she's, Jen's like, you got to get your voice back.
07:16Well, did she need bitch lessons then if she was already had her voice?
07:20Well, no.
07:21I mean, having your voice does not make you a, a B word.
07:26Okay.
07:26Okay.
07:27Okay.
07:28You could say it.
07:30Yeah.
07:31Like Mary, Mary always had her voice.
07:34She, I, Jen acting like Mary doesn't have a voice or something like that.
07:38Mary's never been shut downable.
07:39It's like, I don't know what she's talking about.
07:42Cody actually said that you've always had your voice.
07:46So did she really need to have bitch lessons?
07:50Because in the relationship, he said you've always spoken your mind.
07:55I think that there was a time definitely that I spoke my mind.
07:59And then I realized that that was not the best way to go.
08:05And so I swung completely over to the other side.
08:09I wasn't in an emotionally safe place either in my relationships or even with myself to do that.
08:19And so I felt like there was a long time that I didn't.
08:22When was that part of you that completely shut down?
08:25When was that time?
08:26I would say that was in the Vegas years.
08:29So that was during your dark time?
08:31Yeah.
08:31Prior to that as well though.
08:33Okay.
08:34Yeah.
08:34So you just felt like you didn't value yourself or you felt like you didn't value your opinion?
08:39I thought the best way to handle it would be to not rock the boat.
08:43Don't say anything.
08:44Don't put myself out there.
08:47And just do what I was supposed to do.
08:49And I think our relationship is so good because of this.
08:53It doesn't matter what my feelings are.
08:55It doesn't matter what I say and it doesn't matter what I think.
08:59We're still friends.
09:00We're still friends.
09:01And I don't get punished for having a thought.
09:04When you say punished for having a thought, were you punished prior for having a thought and having an opinion?
09:09It felt that way.
09:10Yeah.
09:10Punished like.
09:12Excluded.
09:12Yeah.
09:13Either kicked out of the club, emotionally like rejected.
09:18There was a lot of, a lot of different situations that in my opinion, I was not accepted into.
09:28Why do you think Cody doesn't like Jen?
09:30Um, I think that Jen speaks her mind and she doesn't let anybody control and manipulate her.
09:37I don't think he likes someone who's so strong and so strong willed and so outspoken with their opinion.
09:45He needs a yes person.
09:47A yes, yes, yes.
09:48You're right.
09:49Let me bow down a little bit and then kiss your feet.
09:51I think that would not be Jen or that kind of a.
09:54So I, I am very much an outspoken person.
09:59Okay.
09:59And I think Cody forgets how much time we actually spend together.
10:03So there's times where conversations have been had or he'll text or he'll call or something happens and I'm literally
10:11there.
10:12I'm around.
10:13Right.
10:14And so the true Cody then shines through.
10:16And there's times where he said and done things that were really not okay.
10:22There's like this undertone of, well, this is my expectation.
10:27Therefore, this is what's going to happen.
10:29And if you don't agree with it, then like, there's like this disdain.
10:36Yeah, I don't trust Jen, but it doesn't matter because Mary and I are no longer together.
10:43And if Mary feels like Jen's got her back, then that's great.
10:48Jen wants to sit and trash talk me.
10:50That's the first offense.
10:52Whether she's got Mary's best interest in mind.
10:55I don't know.
10:55Maybe.
10:56Here's the thing.
10:57Maybe people just don't think the plural marriage is good.
11:00And Mary wasn't happy in plural marriage.
11:01And that was Mary's best interest in mind.
11:03I don't think Jen was.
11:05Do you blame Jen?
11:06No.
11:07For Mary leaving?
11:09No.
11:10Okay.
11:11I mean, Jen just had her part in whatever advice she was giving Mary.
11:16Did Jen influence, have some sort of influence over Mary's actions to leave the family?
11:24Possibly, yes.
11:26I mean, like, listen, it's not my story to tell anymore.
11:28And I don't trash talk Jen anymore.
11:30It's verboten.
11:31What do you think about Mary's BFF, Jen?
11:33You know her or did you know her?
11:35No, we knew her.
11:38We've known her for a long time.
11:40She used to be the lady who would come and spray our houses for bugs.
11:44That was her business.
11:44Oh, so she owned a pest control company?
11:46Yes.
11:46Yeah.
11:47And I remember that she became really good friends with Mary during that time when all
11:53the catfishing and everything was going on.
11:55And a lot of drama was going on in Cody and Mary's relationship.
11:59And I will say, she said to me one time, well, I told Mary that she should, you know,
12:03just take all the money and leave.
12:05And I, at that point, I sort of ended that professional relationship with her because
12:09I felt uncomfortable.
12:10So you told Cody what was said between you and Jen?
12:15Yeah.
12:16I must have.
12:17Because you probably wondered why I was ending the, like, why I was looking for a different
12:21person.
12:22Mm-hmm.
12:24Did you tell Mary to take the money and run?
12:26I sincerely regret not telling Mary to leave.
12:31But I never told her to take the money and run.
12:34And what's funny, too, is I have never heard this story until literally this year.
12:40He's like, Mary, I have to tell you something.
12:43Jen's not good for you because this is what she did.
12:45And I'm like, she never told me that.
12:48Why would she go tell Janelle that she told me that?
12:51Like, she never told me to take the money and run.
12:55Oh, he's like, well, Janelle said that.
12:57Janelle told me when it actually happened.
12:59I'm like, it never happened.
13:00And then I did go and talk to Jen about it.
13:03Maybe she could have said it.
13:04But I don't think that Jen's intention back then was to have Mary leave.
13:11From what I remember, I don't know, it seems like Mary was still, really wanted to be part
13:16of the family and was really loyal towards being part of the family.
13:21So a real friend wouldn't counsel in that way seriously.
13:25Mm-hmm.
13:26I think that if she said it, it would probably be more of like a, you should totally,
13:30totally take the money and run, you know?
13:32She's very sarcastic.
13:34She probably did say it, but I would say in a sarcastic way if she did.
13:37Mm-hmm.
13:37But I don't know.
13:39She actually denied ever saying that, take the money and run comment.
13:42Yeah.
13:42I remember very clearly.
13:44So I know what I remember and it was a very long time ago.
13:49Mm-hmm.
13:49So who knows?
13:50But it doesn't really matter now.
13:51I think Jen's great.
13:52I think she's wonderful for Mary.
13:54Yeah.
13:54Did she ever come to you and ask you to help Mary during this dark time
13:59that Mary was going through in Vegas?
14:01No.
14:02She never, we didn't never really talk about that.
14:05I was at Janelle's house and she's like, is Mary okay?
14:08And I said, no, she is not okay.
14:10She is definitely not okay.
14:11She needs you guys.
14:13And then I left Janelle's and I went to Mary's and I said, just so you know, I was talking
14:17about you behind your back.
14:18I told her that you guys, that they need to come and talk to you.
14:22And she goes, well, that'll never happen.
14:24And I assumed that it was like-
14:27The sister wives were a lot closer?
14:28Yeah.
14:28Yes.
14:28I really did.
14:29And so I didn't know when I first told Janelle, hey, you should, you guys should go talk to
14:34her.
14:34So once I finally started to realize that and I saw how unhappy she was and I saw that
14:39no matter what she did and what she tried, I mean, she got a divorce for Pete's sake,
14:43just to like make things better for everybody else.
14:47And it put her own relationship in complete turmoil at the same time she was becoming an
14:52empty nester.
14:53And not a single person was there to like help her through that.
14:57Mm-hmm.
14:58I mean, you don't go and frame your marriage certificate to the person that you just got
15:02married to when the sister wife-
15:06Yeah.
15:07Like it was, sorry, it was just so insane to me that they weren't there for her.
15:11Who made up that part of take the money and run?
15:14It doesn't, I don't know because it doesn't make sense.
15:17The thing is-
15:18I literally never stopped spraying any houses.
15:20She never stopped.
15:21I sold my company and they all continued to be my customers.
15:24To me, it feels like that this is a story that has just recently been fabricated for whatever
15:31reason.
15:32Coming up, Mary also said that you weren't there for her in Vegas during her dark times,
15:37that you were somebody that she would lean on, needed, and you weren't there for her.
15:42Well, that's a different, that's different than what she said in the past.
15:45I love it when I find out things from you instead of from her.
15:50When Mary was sitting on the sofa, she said the same thing, that she would share things
15:54with Robin and it would get back to you.
15:57I think they're scapegoating Robin.
16:00That's bull****.
16:06Can I ask you a question?
16:08Mm-hmm.
16:08Do you think that you can sit down with other sister wives and also, you know, like Robin,
16:15and have a conversation together?
16:17Just you and her?
16:19Just me and Robin?
16:19And not trigger each other?
16:21Robin and I could have a conversation and not trigger each other.
16:24Really?
16:24I think so.
16:25She and I had a good relationship.
16:28Everybody saw it.
16:28We had a good relationship.
16:30But, you know, that just kind of over the years disintegrated.
16:34There was a lack of trust.
16:35So what dissolved the trust?
16:37Oh, my gosh.
16:40You know, the fact that she wasn't around for me.
16:46I felt like that she wasn't around for me in, you know, my dark time back in Vegas.
16:51How wasn't she there for you during your dark time in Vegas?
16:55I think that she was trying, but there was, like, certain things that I would say to her
16:59that would be found out.
17:03I don't know what you're talking about. Can you—
17:05I would have conversations with her, and then my private conversation, things would be found out.
17:12Other people would find out.
17:14Mary also said that you weren't there for her in Vegas during her dark times,
17:18that you were somebody that she would lean on, needed, and you weren't there for her.
17:24Well, that's a different—that's different than what she said in the past.
17:27So it's her new narrative.
17:30I mean, she used to say that, that I was there for her.
17:33Now she's saying I'm not. I wasn't, so.
17:36Do you think you were there for her?
17:38Yeah. I do. Yeah.
17:41She said there was a betrayal of trust that happened.
17:45Like, she would say some things to you.
17:47Uh-huh.
17:48And then those things would somehow get out.
17:51I don't know what she's talking about as far as, like, things that I supposedly—
18:01She just felt like it was a violation of her trust with you.
18:04Okay. Well, that's news to me.
18:06I love it when I find out things from you instead of from her.
18:11You've actually talked about your own trust issues with Robin, right?
18:14Yeah.
18:15And you've been very, very vocal about that.
18:17Yes. Yes.
18:18You two had date night where you both discussed how moving forward as a family would have some challenges.
18:24But you guys were opening to talking about some of those challenges and how to push through as a family.
18:29Yeah.
18:30So let's take a look at this conversation and then we can discuss.
18:33I feel betrayed by Robin. Just betrayed.
18:36You know, there's things I confided in her and then she would tell Cody and I'd get in trouble.
18:41As much as she talks about wanting to be a sister wife, there was just not enough proof to show
18:48the—
18:48Because you need proof.
18:49Like, a sister wife relationship is one that you have to be able to trust the other person, you know,
18:53and I couldn't.
18:54I don't know. I'm a person that I like to be able to think that we can all get along
19:01in this world.
19:03Eventually, everybody does need to get together and I don't know what that looks like and I don't know what
19:06that would take.
19:06Would it take therapy? I don't know.
19:09Oh.
19:09I'm going to start with Christine.
19:12Talking about Robin and saying that they were—
19:14And getting in trouble?
19:15Yeah.
19:15No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
19:18Robin wasn't coming to me with complaints.
19:20I was experiencing a life with Christine that was pissing me off.
19:24Anytime I came after Christine like, hey, listen, your crappy attitude isn't helping us, wasn't because of something Robin said
19:31or what Mary or Janelle said.
19:33It was specifically because I was in this relationship with Christine getting upset because of the way our relationship was.
19:42But why would she feel that Robin was repeating what she was saying?
19:46Obviously, she was having a candid conversation with another sister wife about you.
19:50And then if it got back to you, how did it get back to you?
19:56There was no time when I ever felt like Robin was betraying somebody else's trust.
20:02But Christine feels that way.
20:04Great, she feels that way.
20:06But I'm like going, everything that I experienced with Christine, I experienced with Christine.
20:14I didn't think like she was doing well in plural marriage.
20:18And it was bugging me.
20:20We wouldn't go out and sit in the backyard and eat because Christine was worried Janelle would come over.
20:27And I'm like, well, Christine, that's our family.
20:29Yeah.
20:30So it was like, like, if you and me want time out, let's go out.
20:34If we're having stuff with the kids, then let's go out in the backyard.
20:37And if Janelle comes over, that's fine.
20:39But Christine isn't the only one saying this when Mary was sitting on the sofa.
20:41She said the same thing, that she would share things with Robin and it would get back to you and
20:47get back to other people.
20:48I think they're scapegoating Robin.
20:50That's bull****.
20:51Because I think that all my problems with Mary were me and Mary having problems, not Robin tattling.
21:01That's if you're trying to help someone and help a relationship, then that person can mediate in front of you.
21:07But if you're going to talk about like, so if there was a situation where she was trying to help
21:11Cody and I at the same time.
21:12Okay. Yeah. But if I'm going to talk to her and then she's going to go behind my back and
21:17talk to Cody about it, then you can't trust someone who does that.
21:20So I trusted her and I opened up to her and I did let her know what was close to
21:27my heart, that he was whatever.
21:29He wasn't being present in my kid's life and he wasn't like just part of that.
21:34He just wasn't part of it.
21:36Got it. And then I don't know what she would tell him, but it wasn't like he would ever come
21:43to me and be like,
21:44you know, Robin told me about something that you told her and let's talk about that and let's like fix
21:51that.
21:51No, it was he'd come at me with anger.
21:54And so I don't know what she told him, but she did tell him without me knowing she was going
21:58to tell him.
21:59And I just like it was just done in a way that instead of helping, it just really hurt.
22:06Okay.
22:08Christine and I are no longer together because of Christine and I has nothing to do with Robin.
22:14She's being a total hypocrite here.
22:17I'm sorry to say that because she's talking about both sides of her mouth.
22:20She's talking about getting the family together, but she never wants to have a relationship with Mary or Robin.
22:30Double-minded completely. It's okay. That's her life.
22:34And I'm just not going to let it bother me.
22:36But it does bother me when they try to blame Robin for what was wrong in them.
22:43I'm just going to ask this one more time.
22:45What?
22:45Did Robin ever tell you things that were told to her in confidence?
23:01I'm just going to ask this one more time.
23:03What?
23:03Did Robin ever tell you things that were told to her in confidence?
23:11The catfishing stuff was probably stuff she brought to me.
23:14Yeah.
23:16But I don't know that she was told that in confidence or if she saw that online.
23:23Yeah, it's funny.
23:24They're all gone.
23:25They've been gone for years.
23:26They're still blaming Robin for it.
23:28Why don't they just blame themselves that they weren't happy in the marriage and that they and me, each one
23:35of them, couldn't work out the relationship?
23:38We actually had a conversation with him in the Vegas kitchen and tried to explain something to him that he
23:44just refused to accept.
23:46And it was during the catfish.
23:48We tried very hard to give him all the information he was asking for.
23:52And because he didn't want to hear it, he shut her down.
23:55And that was the end of it.
23:56She's like, there's no point.
23:57There's just no point in trying to have a conversation with him.
23:59And so it was in moments like that that, okay, well, I guess you don't want to have a conversation
24:03with me.
24:04You don't want to hear what actually is going on.
24:06And you already have a different narrative in your head of what's going on.
24:10So I'm, I'm doing this one on my own.
24:13So this was during your dark times when you're having a conversation publicly with, with another man.
24:18Yeah.
24:18Right.
24:19So you're having a conversation publicly.
24:21I mean, it wasn't a public conversation until the catfisher decided to, you know, make it public.
24:27Okay.
24:28Okay.
24:28There were not public conversations.
24:30There were not public conversations, but they did become public.
24:32And the, the, the version that he wanted to, he, she, whatever wanted to tell is what became public.
24:41Yeah.
24:42Not my version and not the truth.
24:44But what were you trying to explain to Cody in the kitchen that he didn't want to hear?
24:49What was actually happening with that?
24:51That this person was like kind of coming after me and kind of coming after us.
24:59And there was like us as a family and the manipulation that was all involved in that and the lies
25:05that were all involved in that.
25:08Do you have, understand why maybe Mary could have a right to distrust you?
25:15No, no.
25:17After everything that's happened, you don't feel that Mary has any grounds to distrust you?
25:21No, I do not.
25:21I absolutely do not.
25:23I have been, I have had Mary's back.
25:27She said, I'm going to go back to this again.
25:29She said in Vegas, when she was going through her dark times, she leaned on you.
25:33Yeah.
25:33And when she shared things with you, it would end up coming back to her.
25:38All I know is that she was having a conversation online about flowers and texting and music and flirting.
25:47And I was like, she is struggling.
25:50Get your butt over there.
25:52Figure this out with her.
25:54That's what I was doing.
25:56Okay.
25:57She's sitting here saying that she can't trust me because of this or that or the other.
26:00I had her fricking back.
26:02Okay.
26:03I was sitting there watching everything that was happening and I was worried about her.
26:07And I was saying, she kicked you out.
26:11You go stay in another room.
26:12You have the conversation with her.
26:14You don't come over here.
26:16You go work it out with her.
26:17She's being taken advantage of.
26:19Even if I didn't know it was a catfishing situation, even just somebody sitting there
26:24taking advantage of someone who was struggling, a woman who's struggling.
26:27I was like, you get your butt over there and you talk to her.
26:30You work this out.
26:31I was talking to her.
26:33What is this?
26:33What is this conversation you're having?
26:36Why are you talking to this person?
26:39I was trying to, I was being open with both of them.
26:44I was talking to both of them.
26:48If people want to say, if she wants to say that somehow I did something wrong there, that is fine.
26:52I don't have a problem with that because I know what my intentions were.
26:59Robin did.
27:00Robin would come over and talk to me about it and like, what's going on?
27:04What's going on?
27:05And I would tell her what's going on.
27:07But then other stuff would happen and other stories would be out there and other communications,
27:14supposedly, you know, would happen.
27:16And, and...
27:17So you put two and two together and you're saying that maybe Robin was the leak?
27:22I'm not saying I know who was the leak.
27:25I just know that, you know what?
27:28No.
27:30No.
27:31There were times that I would have a conversation with Robin that the catfisher would find out about.
27:41And it was specifically only with Robin.
27:44Nobody else knew.
27:44Correct.
27:46So that's why you said earlier that you were feeling betrayed.
27:50There was a huge lack of trust there because my private conversations that I was having with Robin,
27:56and I don't, I don't believe that she did it intentionally to hurt me.
28:01I think she did it to try to help the situation, but she kept making it worse and kept making
28:06it worse.
28:09And by, by sharing the information.
28:12And I even kept saying to her, don't, don't talk.
28:16Don't talk.
28:18When she was talking, who was she talking to?
28:20Like...
28:21A friend that she had at the time that was in communication with a, with a catfisher.
28:25And this is so weird why I was so freaking talking about this.
28:27What did she say when you were, no, but what, what did she say when you continue to talk about
28:31it?
28:33I would ask her not to, and she's like, I'm trying to help.
28:36I'm like, but you're not helping.
28:39It's not helping.
28:40Just stop talking.
28:42Mary did say that things would get back to other people that she was sharing.
28:47With Robin.
28:49Oh, this was probably all divorce stuff.
28:52Uh, with, um, oh yeah, sure.
28:55Sure.
28:55The whole catfishing thing.
28:57Yeah.
28:58Mary had a relationship with a man that was inappropriate.
29:01I'm sorry.
29:02That's 10 years old.
29:03If Mary's bringing that up here, I had the right to know.
29:08But this is why they feel that they can't be friends or trust Robin.
29:13If your wife's having an affair and your other wife tells you, that's my business.
29:19No matter what.
29:30You can't blame Robin for not telling me about an affair.
29:34That is so hypocritical.
29:37Mary was being a hypocrite during that entire thing.
29:40And we circled the wagons to protect her.
29:43Okay.
29:44And, and, and it would have all worked out fine if Mary and I would have had a good relationship.
29:50Cause it was all forgivable.
29:52But if your wife is having an affair and your other wife knows it, I was being kicked out of
30:00the house.
30:01It's like, don't put that on Robin.
30:06That's totally hypocritical.
30:08That's not some action of Robin's where she was causing problems.
30:13Robin has been the moral compass in this entire family since she entered it.
30:21Let's move on to a happier place.
30:22Back to the BFF spot.
30:24Back to the best friends who have been helping each other this past year, especially you helping her with dating.
30:30Trying to figure out what fits you.
30:33Yep.
30:33The new Mary.
30:34Yep.
30:35You've met this guy named Ron and sparks started to fly and things started to feel good.
30:40Um, so let's take a look at you and your journey of finding new love, Mary.
30:46Okay.
30:46Okay.
30:48I think you're funny.
30:49You're very witty.
30:50You're very funny.
30:50I've kind of learned that today.
30:52Yeah.
30:52Yeah.
30:52It's good.
30:53Yeah.
30:53It's good to spend time.
30:54Just today.
30:55I learned it to a new level today.
30:59So.
31:00I hope that's not a bad thing.
31:01No, not a bad thing.
31:02No, it's good to, this is why you spend time with someone.
31:05Right.
31:05Because you learn a lot and you get to know them and you, you know, little, little things
31:09that you never knew.
31:11Right.
31:11Ron and I definitely have a connection.
31:13We both have shared that with each other that, yeah, there's, there's a reason why we're
31:20in each other's lives.
31:21What that reason is, you know, remains to be seen.
31:25I am so happy right now, Ron.
31:27I love that.
31:30Yeah.
31:32I'm happy too.
31:33This is a good place to be.
31:35Mary, you look so happy.
31:39I am happy.
31:40No, tell me about Ron.
31:41You look happy.
31:42Like really happy.
31:44And comfortable.
31:44Ron is a really cool guy.
31:46And comfortable.
31:46Very comfortable.
31:46I'm very comfortable hanging out with him.
31:49Do you like him like him?
31:51You know what?
31:52Ron and I are building this really cool friendship.
31:57Okay.
31:57Yeah.
31:58It's really cool.
31:59Like I really love that I can be myself around him.
32:05Like I literally can just be myself around him.
32:08Do you like Ron?
32:09I do like Ron.
32:11He's a really nice person.
32:13Jen, do you hope Ron becomes more than a friend for Mary?
32:18If that's what Ron and Mary want, then yes.
32:21Mary, is that what you want?
32:24I mean, have you looked at him?
32:27He's cute.
32:28You know, you're flirting.
32:29You're loose.
32:31That means that you're like...
32:32I'm comfortable with him.
32:33I'm very comfortable with him.
32:35Okay.
32:35And I enjoy spending time with him.
32:37You've held hands.
32:38You've kissed.
32:38Have you kissed?
32:39Can I ask that?
32:41You can ask.
32:42Sure.
32:42Will you answer?
32:44No.
32:46I won't.
32:48So when's your next date with Ron?
32:51Ron and I don't date.
32:54Ron and I hang out and enjoy each other's company.
32:57Okay.
32:58Call it what you want.
32:58When's your next hangout, Mary?
33:01Mary, when are you hanging out with your friend, Ron?
33:06Does that make you feel better?
33:09I'm going to have to ask Ron how he feels about this conversation.
33:12Yeah.
33:13Yeah.
33:14That was so cute.
33:15That was cute.
33:16Yeah.
33:16Really.
33:17I mean, there's more.
33:18I hope that they just don't end friends.
33:19I hope that...
33:20That was so cute.
33:22You don't sit there and jump like you did.
33:25Stop it, David.
33:27Yeah.
33:27You guys didn't have...
33:28They want to take it slow.
33:29I don't know.
33:30Slow, be friends, get to know each other.
33:32I just thought I was slow.
33:33You were slow?
33:34You guys were not slow.
33:35You were slow?
33:35No.
33:36We weren't slow.
33:37So, what do you think about married dating?
33:39It looked like a lot of fun.
33:40Yeah.
33:41There's some good energy there.
33:42Yeah?
33:43Yeah, it looked great.
33:44It's this exciting experience.
33:46When you first meet people, I mean, it's like...
33:49It's just really cute.
33:51That's lovely.
33:51And whether they work or not, it's like there's this excitement
33:55that you kind of get watching it.
33:58I haven't seen a lot of that in a long time.
34:00You know what I mean?
34:02It's so...
34:02It's fun to...
34:03It's like seeing her in a happy element.
34:07It's great.
34:08Yeah.
34:08When was the last time you saw her like that?
34:09Was it like that when you first met?
34:11Like literally, okay, I've never seen this.
34:14But right after my apology, Mary and I sat and started chatting about things.
34:20And it was fun.
34:23So, there's...
34:24Yeah.
34:25There's always a door that's open there.
34:26Well, it's long, but we can get on the phone and...
34:30Mary and I, even in that last chat we had, we caught ourselves escalating to triggers.
34:35Trigger, trigger, trigger.
34:36And I was like, wait, wait, wait, Mary, I'm so sorry.
34:38Yeah, we gotta...
34:39Like, I didn't...
34:39I didn't mean to...
34:41And she's like, oh, we caught ourselves.
34:43It's like, okay, we gotta stop this.
34:45We gotta...
34:45But if you can acknowledge that that does happen, maybe you can stop yourself and leave the door open to
34:50a possible friendship.
34:52Maybe.
34:58When you're in a space where there's so much trust has been harmed, you wanna...
35:04You wanna trust, you wanna be friends if you can.
35:09There's reasons why you should be, but it just doesn't take much to just suddenly feel betrayed over again.
35:19Being friendly is vital for our lives and our children, but friendship is based on trust.
35:28And I know that what will happen...
35:31I don't know, would you say Ron?
35:32Mm-hmm.
35:32Marrying Ron, if they continue on, they will build a relationship on trust, you know?
35:39But...
35:39But we're past that.
35:41We do...
35:42It's...
35:42Trust once murdered cannot be resurrected, usually.
35:47If you can't be friends, can you get to a place where you can at least be friendly?
35:51Oh, no, we're definitely friendly.
35:53We are definitely friendly.
35:55Do you think there'll be a time where Cody and his ex-wives can actually be friends?
36:01I don't know.
36:03I don't know.
36:04I think it would be really cool.
36:07And, I mean, I've said it to him from the beginning of our divorce, you know, the beginning of the
36:14end.
36:14You know, I've said it to him, let's just be kind.
36:17Let's not do this.
36:18And if he and Robin want to have a relationship with me and want to, like, move forward from here
36:26on out and be kind, I would be open to it.
36:30So is this an invitation to them right now that you're giving?
36:33Yeah.
36:34Absolutely, it's an invitation.
36:36I've had that invitation open from day one.
36:40From day one.
36:44Betrayal is an illusion.
36:46And when I have sorted this out long enough, this idea that the illusion of betrayal in divorce or the
36:54illusion of betrayal in relationships, maybe I'll be okay, but I am not there yet.
37:02Going back to the apologies, would it have been safe for them to come to you and talk about why
37:12they wanted to leave?
37:19Coming up, do you feel that more people in the family need to step up and do some apologizing?
37:27No.
37:28Like, I feel like Cody was probably the one who really, Cody was the head of the family.
37:32I think he could have done a lot better job.
37:35Do you feel like there's anything that you need to apologize for?
37:39Apologize to either Cody, Janelle, Mary, or even Robin?
37:53Going back to the apologies, would it have been safe for them to come to you and talk about why
38:03they wanted to leave?
38:07I mean, no, at the time it probably wouldn't have because I didn't know I was doing something wrong.
38:15I didn't know I felt contemptuous.
38:17I didn't know I was angry, even though I probably knew I just wasn't allowing myself to be conscious of
38:24it.
38:25Does it matter if they accepted the apology or not?
38:28It makes me feel better if they do accept it.
38:31But if they don't accept it, I'll just say it again.
38:35After all this, do you accept Cody's apology and how he reached out to you?
38:39Look, I thought it was very nice.
38:41I felt sincerity from it.
38:43And there were some things, like especially about the early years, that were very healing for me to hear.
38:48So you're happy that Cody made this first step?
38:51Yeah, I mean, I think that was great.
38:54Maybe there will be more peace among all the adults.
38:57I feel like that there probably was some sort of karmic thing that got put to bed.
39:03Mm-hmm.
39:05Do you feel that more people in the family need to step up and do some apologizing?
39:10No.
39:11Like, I feel like Cody was probably the one who really...
39:13Cody was the head of the family.
39:16I think he could have done a lot better job.
39:18Does anyone think they deserve an apology?
39:21I mean, I guess if they do and they feel like I need to give them an apology, if they
39:25asked me, I think we could consider it.
39:29Because I definitely don't want to have, you know, somebody out there thinking I've wronged them.
39:35Yeah.
39:37I love that he did it.
39:38Okay.
39:39I do.
39:39I love that he did it.
39:40If that's something that is going to help him as he moves forward in his life, I love that he
39:46did it.
39:46And do you forgive him for that time in Vegas of him not being there?
39:50Yeah.
39:50You forgive him?
39:51Yeah.
39:51Yeah.
39:52Because here's the thing, Suki.
39:53I have a really good life.
39:55Yeah.
39:55I'm really happy with where I am.
39:57And all those moments led to who I am.
40:02Okay.
40:02Right?
40:03So I don't regret it.
40:05Does he owe you more apologies?
40:07No.
40:08No.
40:10No.
40:10No.
40:10I think he did.
40:11I think he did the apologies that he felt were necessary and he does not owe me anything.
40:18Is there anything that you need to apologize for?
40:23I mean, there's a lot of stuff that we have all done to each other through the years.
40:28And, you know, and I think that there's always something to apologize for.
40:34I think there's always something to ask forgiveness for.
40:38Do you feel like there's anything that you need to apologize for?
40:42Apologize to either Cody, Janelle, Mary, or even Robin?
40:53I'm sure there'd be things that I don't know.
40:56I don't know.
40:58I've changed so much.
40:59I'm a different person now.
41:01Mm-hmm.
41:01I don't know.
41:03I don't think so.
41:04I'm just moving on.
41:06I hope they all move on, too.
41:08Yeah.
41:08I think that we just need to move on.
41:10If we keep on dwelling in the past and focusing on the past and needing to go back in the
41:15past to fix the past, just let it go and move on.
41:20Let's just think what we're going to do to build from here and realize that, look, we all said and
41:26did things that, you know, let's just leave it as it is.
41:31Because you can't fix it.
41:33You can't.
41:35Do you think he needs to apologize for anything else?
41:37Or do you think any of the other wives need to apologize to Cody?
41:43Um, it's really not my place to say that's their own personal journey.
41:48And to sit there and say, I think that's just really not my business.
41:51Do you think anyone owes you an apology?
41:54Um, again, that's their own personal journey.
41:57Would you like to apologize to anybody?
42:02I don't think I, I think I'm fine.
42:04Yeah.
42:05Yeah.
42:06Are there any apologies that could possibly set you free?
42:09I don't really look at it that same way.
42:10My, my forgiveness of someone else is my job.
42:15You know, forgiveness is a very personal experience and journey.
42:19It's not so much about the other person, it's about yourself.
42:22And I think that's the perfect way where we can end the conversation today.
42:25Yeah.
42:25Thank you so much.
42:27I would like, honestly, genuinely, I'd like to be in a place where I could have conversations with each of
42:34the four of them and be good.
42:37And like, I don't have to trust them with my life.
42:40You know, I don't, it doesn't have to be that, but to be in a place where it's just comfortable
42:46and we can let the past go because we're never going to see eye to eye on it.
42:50We're never going to like, I'm never going to understand their, their brains and how they look at something.
42:57I'm not in their brains.
42:58I don't know.
42:59I will never understand it, you know?
43:01So I'd be open to it, but it would, it would definitely take some conversation.
43:06So my last question to you is, do you feel like you've been heard and that you had a voice
43:13here?
43:15Here?
43:16Absolutely.
43:17I feel like I have definitely had a voice and thank you for letting me use it.
43:23I appreciate that.
43:26I don't believe the break is clean as I wanted it when I was apologizing, but I don't know.
43:34I just think it's time for all of us to move on with all my heart in hopes of Mary
43:41Janelle
43:42and Christine having a wonderful life.
43:44And if, if there's still something tied up in there, if there's still a hurt, I would want them to
43:53call me up and say,
43:54Hey, I was hurt by this once.
43:56Could you explain it to me?
43:57And I can take the time to explain it.
44:00Yeah.
44:00I want all the hurt to end.
44:03I want everybody to move on.
44:05I want everybody to feel free and move on with forgiveness.
44:12Cody, thank you so much for this incredible conversation.
44:15I feel like, you know, we were able to get rid of some of the contradictions, clear up a lot
44:18of things.
44:19Are you sure?
44:21You know, with the Brown family, I never know.
44:23But I feel like I got some clarity and I hope everybody else did too.
44:27Yeah.
44:28And all I do is wish you the best, you and your family.
44:31So thank you for your candid conversation.
44:34Thank you so much.
44:35You're welcome.
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