- 1 hour ago
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:06I remember there was one time when I went up to the flat just before I was going home
00:11about 11 o'clock at night and said right I'm off now and I wish I'd done dozens of times
00:16before
00:16and I've got no idea why but I walked to the door over here and I got to the door
00:23which was open
00:25and I stood at the door and I turned around and I looked at him and he I think he
00:31thought I'd gone
00:34and I can just remember thinking it was an absolute picture of isolation
00:43and he just he he had a sense of burden and weight
00:49and because at that stage so many people saw him in the way that they did Tony Blyer all that
00:55stuff
00:57I actually it was one of those moments where I wished I could paint
01:01it was an absolute portrait in the kind of isolation of power
01:08did you feel any urge to either say something or put an arm around him
01:12no I didn't I just walked out
01:14no I didn't I just walked out
01:44no I didn't I Blyer er
01:58no I didn't I just walked out
02:14MUSIC CONTINUES
02:34After the fall of Saddam,
02:37we got a message from the Russians saying,
02:41Putin would like Tony to go out.
02:44One-on-one, oh, interesting, almost out of the blue.
02:48We get on the plane, we get picked up by a helicopter,
02:51we get taken to this place God knows where.
02:54Amazing sort of luxury that he's living in by now.
03:07And we had a dinner
03:10where Putin absolutely laid into it.
03:14OK, where are the Americans going next, then?
03:15Where are they going to war next?
03:17Oh, they haven't told you yet.
03:18They'll tell you.
03:19And then he'll do it.
03:21And it was nasty, it was cynical.
03:24He didn't use the phrase Bush's poodle,
03:26but that was kind of what he was saying.
03:28It was really quite vicious.
03:32How did Tony respond?
03:34He sort of sat there, took it,
03:38then just explained to him why he thought he was wrong.
03:40No doubt there will be discussions ahead of us
03:43in order to make sure that we can resolve
03:46any remaining difficulties or issues that there are
03:49in the international community.
03:50But I would like to thank the President once again
03:52for the constructive and immensely friendly atmosphere
03:55in which these talks were conducted.
03:56Ladies and gentlemen, thank you.
04:02The conference is over.
04:09Back home, Tony Blair has a problem.
04:12He wants to move on from the Iraq War,
04:16continue his reforms to the United Kingdom
04:18and win another general election.
04:24I want us to win a third term,
04:26not so that we can go in the history books,
04:28but so that we can consign Britain's failings
04:32to the history books.
04:33That's why we want it.
04:36But moving on from the war is proving to be difficult.
04:43That's fine, sir, you can make your protests.
04:46Just thank goodness we live in a democracy and you can.
04:50The Iraq War shattered the Blair Coalition,
04:54so it was never glad, confident morning again.
04:56We had gone through a long period
04:58where Tony Blair was a very trusted individual.
05:01And once that trust was lost,
05:04a lot of people lost faith
05:05in what government was telling them.
05:10As the war on terror continues
05:12and stories keep on emerging from Iraq,
05:15it proves impossible to draw a line under it.
05:30An American television network has shown disturbing photographs
05:34taken by one US soldier,
05:36which appear to show others abusing Iraqi prisoners.
05:46Just tell me what you felt
05:48when you saw those images of hooded prisoners in Abu Ghraib.
05:52No, because I was appalled whenever you see,
05:54appalled by the fact of it
05:56and appalled by the stupidity of it.
05:58In war, bad things are going to happen.
06:03But our attempt there to stabilise the country,
06:07I mean, that's an ambition that was a perfectly good one.
06:09What about the fact that it was official US policy
06:13to have a form of torture?
06:16Well, I never agreed with torture.
06:18And at any point in time
06:19where it was ever erased with me,
06:20I always said I'm opposed to this,
06:22I'm opposed to it on moral grounds,
06:24I'm opposed to it on grounds of effectiveness.
06:27I have never been in favour of it,
06:28and I never was at the time,
06:30and I made it clear that we should say to the Americans
06:32we were not in favour of it.
06:42Blair is also having problems with Gordon Brown,
06:45a decade after Brown agreed to support Blair's bid
06:48to become Labour leader.
06:55Tony was increasingly exasperated with the impatience
07:00that Gordon Brown had to be Prime Minister.
07:04Obviously wanting to take over when Tony stood down,
07:07but when was Tony going to stand down?
07:09And a lot of those people who were supporting Gordon Brown
07:12were getting increasingly impatient.
07:15Ten years is a very long time in any job.
07:18Has there been any point when you've thought about moving on?
07:23No.
07:25So there you are.
07:27Did you ever see him sort of crack or crumble a little bit
07:30in the privacy of, as it were, your bedroom or the flat?
07:34There were plenty of times, I think,
07:37when he would feel, have I done the right thing?
07:42He wouldn't be human if he didn't find that difficult,
07:47and the constant drip, drip, drip of Gordon's pressure.
07:53There was a point when he thought,
07:55you know, maybe I should stand down.
07:58What did you say?
07:59No.
08:01I was absolutely against that.
08:05I said to him, of course, if you want to stand down,
08:08you must stand down.
08:09But do you really think that Gordon is the right person
08:13to take over from you?
08:17Because I don't think you do.
08:19And therefore, I don't do it.
08:26People say there's always tension between Number 10 and the Chancellor,
08:29but there was this extra dimension in this case.
08:32The deal was supposed to be that they wouldn't fight each other
08:37and that Tony would hand over to Gordon.
08:40And that became a sort of despoiling element in the government
08:45as Tony went on and on and on.
08:59It was not an easy campaign.
09:01The days of sort of standing on a soapbox
09:03and just talking to an adoring gathering had gone.
09:06We've had Mr Kennedy in that chair.
09:07We've had Mr Howard in that chair.
09:09Why wouldn't you debate directly face-to-face with them in the...
09:20I debate every week in the House of Commons with Michael Howard.
09:23I'm here to answer questions tonight.
09:27I probably do more discussions,
09:30not just with audiences like this,
09:32but with people when we talk about the issues
09:35than any politician before me.
09:37All right, Mr Blair, Mr Blair, thank you.
09:40What got to Tony, however,
09:43was when people who were really close to him
09:47started saying to him, you know,
09:49trust is draining away,
09:51people don't believe you in the way that they did.
09:55All this has been fostered, generated,
10:00by people who wanted him to go.
10:02I told him, just get up off your knees.
10:06Don't be apologetic.
10:07Stop being a supplicant.
10:09Be a leader.
10:10Go out there and be confident and fight.
10:13After years of bad blood and distrust,
10:16Tony Blair, since last week,
10:17has rarely ventured a few yards from the Chancellor's side.
10:21Despite the ongoing tensions between the two men,
10:24Blair and Brown put on a united front during the campaign.
10:28You must have seen more of him in the last five days
10:30than in the last five years.
10:31I think that's a bit of an exaggeration, Michael.
10:34Your wives must be beginning to wonder something's going on.
10:37When we are together,
10:39it emphasises the importance,
10:40not just the unity of the government,
10:42but also the importance of the unity of that message.
10:44You get my fist, did you?
10:45Well, Tony Blair is a trusted leader internationally,
10:48respected around the world,
10:49and he has led the major reforms that have been brought about
10:52in this country, including the reforms in economic policy
10:55that we're talking about today.
11:03Britain has decided, and we are predicting,
11:06that Tony Blair has won a third term,
11:08but with a sharply reduced majority of 66,
11:11making the Prime Minister the first ever Labour leader
11:13to win three elections in a row.
11:16It felt a much more tense night.
11:19He wasn't joyous in the same way.
11:21Did he feel vulnerable?
11:23I mean, he's still Prime Minister, he wins, but...
11:25No, he felt vulnerable. He felt vulnerable.
11:27I think he felt that things were turning.
11:29I think he felt, you know, and they were.
11:32On these results, I would have thought,
11:34not Gordon Brown himself, but the Brown supporters
11:37will be wondering how quickly they can move
11:39Tony Blair out of Downing Street.
11:43He is clearly a liability,
11:44and I fear for the future,
11:47unless he ceases to be the leader of the party.
11:52After the 2005 election,
11:54there was a kind of sourness amongst Labour MPs,
11:57as if to say, oh, well, Tony's won,
11:59that's what you expect of Tony,
12:00whereas, in fact, it was...
12:02This guy's a genius.
12:03It may be other things as well, but absolute genius.
12:05Brilliant at winning elections.
12:08I think hubris kicked in.
12:10Ego's the disease of politics.
12:12I mean, people are...
12:13That's why you have to change, you know,
12:15presidents and leaders and not hang on forever.
12:18You know, if you have absolute power,
12:21it goes to your head and you think you're the fount of all wisdom.
12:24They all say you're brilliant and you start thinking you're brilliant.
12:30After Iraq, because it was such a difficult decision
12:34and the aftermath was so traumatic in many ways,
12:39you know, there was bound to be a reduction in my capacity to persuade people.
12:44What there wasn't was a reduction in my ability to do the things I really wanted to do.
12:50You know, the irony is you start as a politician
12:53at your most popular but least capable,
12:57and then you end at your most capable but least popular.
13:00So, yes, I was conscious of the fact I was much less able to persuade people,
13:05but I was also much more confident about the direction I was taking the country in.
13:16What's the most important thing?
13:16With power slipping away,
13:18Blair wants to use what time he has to make as much difference as possible.
13:34And when the G8 comes to the UK,
13:37he gets to choose the agenda for the leaders of the world to discuss.
13:50Blair chooses cancelling the debt of the world's poorest countries
13:55and for them all to admit the truth of climate change.
14:00It was probably the most extraordinary 48 hours I had in politics.
14:05We tried to do something completely different with what was then the G8.
14:08And I really used every bit of lost credibility and influence with the Americans in order to do it.
14:18It was very tense because, first of all, I don't think the Americans really wanted that agenda.
14:24And secondly, because Russia was there and already things were becoming somewhat fractured with the Russian leadership.
14:33So it was going to be a very, very tall ask.
14:38If we cancel debt, we will save thousands of lives every day and millions of lives in the future.
14:50With the summit underway, Blair is hoping for another boost.
14:59Right, good morning everyone. You know the issues that are there? Africa and climate change.
15:06Thank you for your leadership. This is going to be a successful summit.
15:11Thousands of people have gathered in central London to hear the result of the 2012 Olympic bid.
15:17The games of the 30th Olympiad in 2012 are awarded to the city of London.
15:32Prime Minister, Trafalgar Square is listening right now. Is there anything you have to say to the people of London
15:38at this moment?
15:38Well done.
15:40Well done.
15:42The greatest games the world's ever seen.
15:55Blair arrives to put the finishing touches to a deal that writes off the debt of the world's poorest countries
16:02and properly recognises climate change.
16:17If we move away from this world, please!
16:22All right, please.
16:23Thanks for having me.
16:24All right, please.
16:31Four Islamist terrorists have detonated suicide bombs in London.
16:36killing 52 people I always remember he took a moment to go outside by himself
16:47and stand and reflect
17:06there seems to be a link between the invasion of Iraq and a greater risk of terrorist activity
17:12in Britain the fact is what they're doing is utterly evil and you can't compromise with it
17:19you've got to pull it up by its roots you could see that there were moments of extreme pressure
17:27especially when he was making momentous decisions especially ones involving human lives dad's always
17:32had this habit if you'd be talking to him about something and he'll zone out and think about
17:36something completely different and you would see though the kind of zone out moments ratchet up as
17:41as more was was was on his shoulders you know he really cared if he saw it affecting us as
17:46well
17:46so I think we were quite careful to make sure it didn't affect us or at least not show it
17:51right
17:51right there was almost this shared mutual understanding that we would never let him see it affect us too
17:58much and he would never let us see it affect him too much
18:12Blair knows that there are Labour MPs who want him to stand down
18:16but there's still fight left in him as he takes on a little known UKIP MEP
18:23I thought crikey perhaps Blair's gonna do it perhaps he really is gonna reform and change
18:28but no under your presidency there have been three thousand three hundred and fifty new legislative acts
18:35total failure on economic reform
18:38let me just tell you sir and your colleagues
18:43you sit with our country's flag
18:45you do not represent our country's interests
18:55this this is the year 2005 not 1945 we're not fighting each other anymore these are our partners
19:03they're our colleagues and our future lies in Europe
19:13but Blair is finally about to lose power and it's not the British electorate who force him out
19:19it's his own party
19:22the polling was saying that with Tony Blair as Prime Minister we were in trouble
19:30Gordon was the most popular politician in Britain for about a decade
19:35people really respected him and he had almost single-handedly turned around Labour's long-standing reputation for screwing up the
19:44economy
19:46many of those plotting Blair's downfall are allies of the Chancellor
19:52I was saying to him you need to make space for others than Gordon to come forward
20:00and he would always say to me I cannot choose my successor
20:03and I would say by not doing that you are effectively choosing Gordon
20:09do you think he made a mistake I do what did you make of the accusation that you were a
20:17sort of Lady Macbeth figure
20:23I think really I thought that was a joke I thought it was Gordon who described me as Lady Macbeth
20:33if anyone thinks Tony's my puppet they just don't understand the nature of the man
20:44he's on a visit to York when an advisor pulls him aside
20:48they tell him that MPs are coming forward with letters calling for him to resign
21:04he brought his closest people together and worked out what he needed to do to respond
21:12who were his allies where were the people that he could activate on his behalf who was going to do
21:18that
21:18so it became a sort of a mini sort of war plan
21:22there were people saying ride it out
21:25but in the end there was a realisation that he couldn't fight it anymore
21:37his head recognised that he had run out of road
21:44I'm not sure his heart ever accepted that
21:48as for my timing and date of departure
21:53I would have preferred to do this in my own way
21:56but as has been pretty obvious
22:00from what many of my cabinet colleagues have said earlier in the week
22:06the next party conference in a couple of weeks will be my last party conference as party leader
22:12tell me a bit about you and Gordon Brown
22:16you know we were much more than just friends right
22:20we were deep political partners
22:25and for the best part of ten years
22:27it was quite a long time
22:29we would be talking several times a day
22:32and then you put all the stresses and strains of government
22:36I mean if you think about it
22:37it was a miracle we lasted ten years
22:39but we did
22:40and I always say to people
22:42because people often say to me
22:43you know would it not have been better to have got rid of Gordon and so on
22:46and you know you can make an argument for that
22:48but I think those three election victories
22:55which were the only time Labour ever won
22:56three consecutive election victories with a full functioning majority
23:01I think they were because we were new Labour
23:04but I also think in part they were because that partnership was there with him
23:11Blair has overseen ten years of economic prosperity
23:15while at the same time transforming many aspects of British society
23:20there's a huge legacy
23:22and it covers many many many different areas
23:25Bank of England independence
23:26New Deal
23:27schools and hospitals investment
23:29gay rights
23:30Scottish Parliament
23:31minimum wage
23:35Now just as he leaves office
23:37he is confronting the reality of life without power
23:42By the time he was leaving number ten
23:44he really finally understood how to make the whole thing work
23:49and at that point when perhaps he felt he could do even more
23:54he had to stand back
23:56Prime Minister's private staff had organised a sort of do
24:02which was meant as a sort of thank you stroke celebration
24:08With Blairs leaving drinks underway upstairs
24:12Blairs and Brown meet downstairs in the corridor
24:18It's finally time for Blairs to hand over the role of Prime Minister
24:22and he can't help but give Gordon's speech the once-over
24:43It's been an honour to serve, a privilege to work in this building
24:47Thank you very much indeed
24:51It didn't really work
24:54He suddenly realised
24:56it's over
24:58and
25:00that hurt
25:12And then we made our way downstairs and we gathered our stuff
25:17as Gordon Bryan's people came in that way passing us
25:21OK, I'll see you later
25:21OK, I'll see you later
25:23Matthew, come down
25:27Ten years in power, your dad leaves office
25:29Did you get a sense that that was difficult for him?
25:33Yes
25:33Yes
25:34And definitely a sense of unfinished business
25:41There you are, a seven year old
25:43Yeah
25:44Do you remember anything about that day?
25:45I remember being very sad
25:46I wasn't just leaving the house I was in
25:49I was leaving everybody else who I'd grown up with
25:51who was there, right
25:52All the people that worked there
25:53who had been like
25:53you know, kind of raised me collectively
25:56I don't know, it might sound a bit weird
25:57but it is really like that
25:58when you see people every day from a very young age
26:01Both my mum and I were trying to hold back tears
26:04I think my mum made a sarcastic comment as she left, didn't she?
26:07To the press?
26:07To the press
26:12What did you think of the press?
26:16I hated the press
26:17They were particularly horrible to my mum
26:20They obviously don't like strong women
26:22Really, I think if someone today told me they worked for the Daily Mail
26:24I'd probably turn around and walk in the other direction
26:29Your skill as a politician is about knowing about the people
26:33and living with the people
26:34and understanding what the people want
26:36ten years and living in the goldfish bowl
26:38you kind of lose contact with reality
26:43He didn't really bring on a generation to carry on his revolution
26:49He was singular in that sense
26:51It was just him
26:54and the way that he left gave one an impression
26:56that it had always really just been about him
26:59that being Prime Minister was merely a stage on his career journey
27:04and he left a void in politics
27:06that was never really filled
27:10That is the problem with charismatic politicians
27:15Once the charisma is gone
27:18there's just a bit of smoke left
27:20and a faint memory of light
27:22and the stage is empty
27:34So, you were forced out, as you've put it
27:36of the biggest job in your life
27:39when you were 54
27:42How did that feel?
27:44You see, I knew I was going to go
27:47I'd had more than ten years in the job
27:52I was literally thinking about what's the future
27:55I mean, some people said to me
27:56you should take six months off
27:57you should go and, you know
28:00go and sit somewhere, read books
28:01and, you know, contemplate life
28:03I was literally not interested in that for a moment
28:14on his first afternoon
28:17not being Prime Minister
28:18he takes the train
28:20up to the north-east of England
28:24back to Sedgefield
28:26and he arrives back at Darlington train station
28:31and there's no one there
28:35so, the official car is gone
28:39all of that he has got used to
28:41over the previous ten years
28:43the British state just turns it off
28:48he is left on Darlington train station
28:51waiting
28:59and I think that sort of sudden jolting change
29:03to your power and status
29:06is sort of captured in that moment
29:12It's quite a frightening thing
29:14to know that you're going
29:15from having
29:19one of the most important jobs in the country
29:23to walking out
29:26into the world
29:28and
29:30nothing
29:33But no red box this morning
29:35No red box, yes, that was strange
29:44This will be a new government
29:47with new priorities
29:49and now let the work of change begin
29:52Thank you
30:01Not only has he given up being Prime Minister,
30:05he's giving up his seat in the House of Commons
30:08It's time to pack up his constituency house
30:11This is just...
30:12I mean, the thing is
30:13it's one thing to change your job
30:17but then you change your job
30:18you move house at the same time
30:19those apparently
30:20two most stressful things you ever do
30:24and I'm doing both at the same time
30:26An American politician said that
30:29losing high office is like the end of a love affair
30:32and the thing about love affairs
30:34when you're out of one
30:34you shouldn't go too quickly into the next one
30:37and I think Tony was
30:40scared is the wrong word
30:41but worried at the idea that he'd have an empty diary
30:48With the help of the Americans,
30:50Blair gets the job as envoy to the Middle East
30:54He wants to improve the situation
30:56between Israel and the Palestinians
31:00So, Mr Blair, what does it feel like being pitched
31:02into one of the most intractable conflicts in the world?
31:06It's hugely challenging
31:08but there's nothing more important in the world today
31:12than to get this issue sorted out in a different place
31:16Hello there
31:18He was a genuine statesman
31:20which is more than can be said for most of his successors
31:23but on the other hand
31:24what he could not see
31:26was how grievously he was morally compromised
31:29by the Iraq war
31:31about all the fallout from that
31:34Hello, good morning
31:35Yeah, good to see you
31:36This is Yuval Stenigsaw as the head of our...
31:39Hello there
31:39He's never been good at seeing himself as others see him
31:43So where would you like to...
31:44Right, shall we sit down here?
31:45Do you want me to take my tie off then?
31:47If you were good and casual, yeah
31:50But Blair is a statesman without a state
31:52and alongside his role in the Middle East
31:55he establishes several foundations
31:58for which he starts raising money
32:01No previous Labour Prime Minister
32:03has ever gone after money like he did
32:05and he went to some very disreputable countries
32:07I think it was all because he wanted to be left with a big legacy
32:11and a big reputation
32:12He didn't want to finish with Iraq
32:15Iraq was failure
32:16but then he wanted to build another story
32:19of him as a great leader and thinker
32:21and...
32:21and that's why he threw himself into raising all this money
32:28The amount of money that Prime Minister has paid is ludicrous in this country
32:31to pay them quite so little
32:32and if you had a political career as an MP etc
32:36by comparison with an ordinary person
32:37yes you're paid well
32:38but by comparison with their contemporaries from university
32:41the people they compare themselves with
32:43they feel very poor
32:44it's the same with civil servants
32:45so when they come out they want to make money
32:47and that's...
32:47I think Tony is just very competitive
32:49he wants to make more money than ours
32:50in office Blair tried to persuade some of the world's most controversial regimes
32:56to move closer to the west
32:58and he still believes he can
33:06which takes him to Kazakhstan
33:08advising President Nazarbayev
33:11a dictator known to have repressed his own people
33:20you advised some pretty unsavoury characters
33:23do you think that was a mistake?
33:25so the advisory work we were doing
33:28for example in Kazakhstan
33:30was advisory work that was completely in line with what the World Bank was doing there
33:34other consultancies and foundations were doing there
33:37but anyway it was a complete mistake because
33:40to do the for profit in that way
33:43because it looked like
33:44it was all to do with personal gain
33:46when actually
33:47it really wasn't
33:48it was to do with creating
33:50enough funding
33:52that we could start the institute
33:53and if you want to do something
33:55you've got to raise money
33:56but money is never pure
33:59well money is money
34:00it just allows you to do things
34:02if you leave office
34:03and you're in your early 50s
34:05and many people will now
34:07and you've got maybe
34:09I don't know
34:10maybe 20-30 years of active life
34:12in front of you
34:12what are you going to do?
34:13if you're the sort of person
34:14that became Prime Minister
34:15you're not going to want to go off
34:16and play rounds of golf all day
34:18and certainly that's not what I would ever want to do
34:21so you know
34:22you're going to want to create something
34:23but if you want to create something
34:25I'm afraid you need money
34:28when Blair publishes his autobiography
34:30he donates the £4.6 million advance
34:33to the Royal British Legion
34:35in London
34:36but even the launch of his book
34:38proves controversial
34:40the first stop on his book tour
34:42is Dublin
34:57he then cancels his book launch in London
35:00and it looks like he may never shake off
35:02the legacy of the Iraq War
35:08you will remember the portrait
35:11that was painted of you
35:12by Jonathan Yeo I believe
35:15where the only real bit of colour
35:17is the poppy
35:18what did you think when you saw that?
35:21thought it was a good painting
35:25significance of the poppy?
35:27yeah of course
35:27I mean it was bound to be seen in the context of the war
35:31and so on
35:31but I thought it was a good picture
35:34a portrait is in some ways meant to summarise someone
35:37did it do that with you?
35:39you decide whether
35:40I mean I
35:42I'm not interested in that type of stuff
35:45I mean
35:45if people want to say that's all it was about
35:48and there would be plenty of people on the right
35:50and plenty of people on the left who want to say
35:51that was all he ever did
35:52was take the country to war post 9-11
35:55and fine they can say that
35:56it really doesn't worry me
35:58you've got to understand
35:59I have enough belief in what I've done
36:02and what I'm doing now
36:03that if people want to do that
36:05which by the way is for political reasons
36:09because I can't think of another British Prime Minister
36:11that wouldn't have also wanted to be with America post 9-11
36:14but anyway leave that to one side
36:15if people want to make that
36:17the only thing they think about when they think about me
36:19that's up to them
36:20I don't
36:21you have to understand
36:22it's not going to determine
36:25my view of what I've done or what I'm doing now
36:27I will have that debate with people
36:29I'm very happy to have it with people
36:31but you know there's no point in
36:33keeping asking me the same thing around
36:36you know
36:36or someone paints a portrait of you
36:38you know
36:38what do you feel when you look at it
36:40and I actually felt it was a really good portrait
36:43is the most important thing I thought
36:45this series is going to reflect
36:47the successes of your project
36:50but it has to touch
36:52Yeah I understand that Michael
36:53I'm not
36:55the reason I push back hard
36:58it's because
37:01you know I feel it's got to be pushed back hard against
37:03because of course
37:04it's what a lot of people say
37:05and you know
37:06this is a programme about me
37:08and so
37:09I'm entitled to my view
37:10and I want to express my view
37:12you know
37:12you ask me a lot about Iraq and everything
37:14but I always say to people
37:15that we did an immense amount of good things
37:17and this country
37:18on the day I left in June 2007
37:20was a strong capable country
37:23and in my view
37:24and I'm entitled to it
37:25as people are entitled to their view
37:26if we'd stuck with that
37:28strong centre ground government
37:31and we hadn't got into
37:33the mess we've got into as a country
37:36we would be in a much more powerful position today
37:48Ten years after losing power
37:51and Blair's aims for the Labour Party
37:54Britain
37:54and the world
37:55seem to be collapsing
38:02Jeremy Corbyn
38:03who campaigned against the Iraq war
38:06is Labour leader
38:07Don't let those people
38:09who wish us ill
38:10divide us
38:11stay together
38:12strong
38:12and united
38:13for the kind of world
38:14we want to live in
38:17Nigel Farage
38:18the once minor MEP
38:19helps take Britain
38:21out of Europe
38:23Let June the 23rd
38:25go down
38:25in our history
38:27as our
38:28Independence Day
38:30I mean if you told me
38:31that Nigel Farage
38:32was going to be a key player
38:33in British politics
38:34and Jeremy Corbyn
38:35was going to lead the Labour Party
38:36I would have said
38:37that's never going to happen
38:38but
38:39I was wrong
38:40the boat
38:41did happen
38:46And the new world order
38:48is crumbling
38:49Putin will later
38:50cite the Iraq war
38:52as one of the justifications
38:54for his invasion of Ukraine
38:57Tell me about your perspective
38:59on Putin's character
39:00The question you always ask yourself is
39:02was he always
39:03was it
39:05as he became
39:06when I just didn't see it
39:07or did he change
39:07and my
39:09view is that he did change
39:10but you know who knows
39:14A huge part of what
39:16you fought for
39:18has frankly crumbled
39:20since you left power
39:21has that been difficult to watch?
39:24Look people in these last years
39:27have moved against some of the things
39:29I stood for
39:30you know
39:31belief that globalisation
39:32was basically a positive process
39:34that we needed to manage
39:37Britain being in Europe
39:39liberal interventionism
39:41yeah we should all just disengage
39:44yeah
39:45people have moved against it
39:47but
39:49you know I remain committed
39:50to those things
39:51and I think
39:52again you've got to think
39:54you know history
39:55history is not static
39:56it changes
39:56and people will
39:58I think come in time
39:59to realise
40:01there's
40:01you know
40:02there are merits
40:03in the position
40:04that
40:06that I took
40:12His sense of himself
40:14is that he is
40:15a man of the future
40:17Yes
40:18He believes that progress is real
40:21and that history is moving
40:22in a direction
40:23from
40:23bad to good
40:25from
40:26dark to light
40:27Do you mind just giving me some level please?
40:29Right my name's Tony Blair
40:30I'll speak round about this level
40:31Thank you
40:32I think there is a sense of him being
40:34this kind of tragic character
40:38but in the kind of original
40:39kind of Greek tragic sense
40:41of battling against a fate
40:43trying to shape the world
40:45into the kind of world that he wants
40:47into a
40:48liberal
40:49international
40:51democratic
40:52world
40:52order
40:53this was what Blairite Britain represented
40:55Britain was going to be the beacon
40:57of this world
40:58and it just kind of collapses
41:00into something
41:01that is completely different
41:04to that world that he imagined
41:06but yet he still
41:07holds on to the idea
41:08that he can see the future
41:11But just at that low point
41:13things start to turn around for Blair
41:16He sets up a new organisation
41:18the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change
41:21We speak every morning
41:23sometime between half past five
41:26and half past six
41:27We're trying to grow something
41:28that's going to outlive him
41:31Blair personally advises world leaders
41:33and his institute pumps out policy papers
41:36coming to prominence during the pandemic
41:39When Covid first hit
41:41Tony and I decided we were going to pivot
41:44the entire organisation to work on Covid
41:46because we knew every single leader we worked with
41:49across the world
41:50was going to be grappling with this issue
41:52Good morning
41:53How are you doing?
41:54Blair becomes an early proponent of mass testing
41:59And his strategy for vaccinations
42:01is adopted by governments across the world
42:04It was the Tony Blair Institute
42:06which seemed to be ahead of the government
42:08You suddenly started to see
42:10Prime Ministers going to see Tony Blair
42:13or asking Tony Blair to come in to Number 10
42:16Liz Truss saw him
42:17Boris Johnson saw him
42:19Akia Starmer certainly saw him
42:21before he became Prime Minister
42:23This is the kind of influence
42:25that he has managed to build for himself
42:27Blair's institute employs over 900 people
42:31working in more than 40 countries
42:34Do you have as much power and influence now
42:37as you did in Number 10?
42:38So I don't have as much power as I did when I was Prime Minister
42:42but influence, you know, to a degree
42:46Many of Blair's old allies found their way back to power
42:52His chief of staff, Jonathan Powell
42:55is Britain's national security adviser
43:00And until recently
43:03Peter Mandelson was Britain's ambassador to the United States
43:06Thank you very much indeed also
43:09for that very typical 11th hour intervention by you
43:14with your phone call to the President
43:16Do you think there's a small part of him
43:19that would rather like your job?
43:23I'm not sure that Tony Blair is quite ready to become a mere ambassador
43:27but he'd certainly want to exercise influence over the person
43:31who was actually doing it
43:41And Blair is still in the frame
43:44when it comes to trying to bring peace to the Middle East
44:02Even 18 years after leaving power
44:05Tony Blair still provokes a kaleidoscopic range of opinions
44:13As we sit here with all that's going on
44:17I look back
44:20I think he was an integral part of a golden age in Britain
44:24which I think a lot of people would wish we were now back on
44:28because we sure ain't in a golden age today
44:35There are still many people who hate him
44:38Often the people who used to love him most
44:43He was a formidable figure
44:45brought down by some of the very qualities that had taken him to the top
44:50The tragedy for Tony Blair, if there is to be one
44:53may well be that his achievements are blotted out
44:57by the mistake that's unacknowledged
45:00That is a tragedy
45:06I know there are some people who absolutely despise the guy
45:09There are some people who celebrate the day he dies
45:10But I think Northern Ireland alone puts him in the top rank of British Prime Ministers
45:16He's a big historic figure
45:18His strength is all the communication and charm
45:20And he's brilliant, brilliant, brilliant at that
45:23And he wants to be the big thinker, which he isn't
45:26But that's what he's trying to play out
45:32There will be those who will never forgive him for a rock
45:37But if you ask me, I think he did a good job
45:42What would you say are his flaws?
45:43He is an amazing politician
45:47As a husband and as a human being
45:50That's a different matter
45:51But that's really between me and him
45:59He doesn't stop
46:00I think he's busier than he was then
46:03Why do you think that is?
46:06Because he's just not finished
46:07He wants to do the work that he set out to do
46:12And so he won't stop
46:25And also, it's very important to understand about me
46:28I'm not into psychoanalysis, right?
46:31I think there's far too much of it
46:32I think people spend far too long constantly analysing themselves
46:36I know why I do what I do
46:38Because I believe in it
46:39If people want to accept that, they can accept it
46:41If they don't accept it
46:44I'll just get on with doing it
46:46Thank you
47:00a strong smell of dirty business in a new factual drama starting monday night at nine on channel
47:07four david fuelis and jason watkins both star next tonight how the trophy killing of africa's
47:13biggest lion by a wealthy tourist spot global controversy and complex moral questions cecil
47:19the lion and the dentist in a mall
Comments