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00:00:04I read somewhere that there's one film that had more of an influence on you than any other.
00:00:09Yeah.
00:00:10Schindler's List. Can you tell me about that and the impact it had on you?
00:00:18Well, Schindler's List is a remarkably important film in many different respects,
00:00:25but the thing that impacted me most was this concept of the camp commandant
00:00:35and the normality that in one sense he was living with his girlfriend and all of that,
00:00:40and then just the sheer brutality that was being visited upon the people.
00:00:56Yeah.
00:01:16As this awful thing is happening, the people just standing about, you know,
00:01:24They're looking at it, they're knowing it happens,
00:01:26and they're not doing anything about it.
00:01:29You cannot be a bystander,
00:01:31that has been a very important part of my politics,
00:01:35and it can lead you to right judgments and wrong judgments,
00:01:39but it's not just your job to look after your country,
00:01:42to look after the people around you,
00:01:44it's also you owe some responsibility to the bigger world.
00:02:10I really do.
00:02:22I really definitely do.
00:02:23I really do, too.
00:02:24I really do.
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00:04:35The new US President George Bush arrives at Chequers with congratulations for Blair's latest victory.
00:04:46Blair is determined to build a close relationship with the most powerful man in the world.
00:04:54Tell me about Tony's relationship with him and what you perceived of that. How did it work?
00:04:58I can remember when we, because obviously we knew Bill and Hillary even before Tony became Prime Minister, from when
00:05:07he became leader of the opposition.
00:05:08And obviously we have similar views in many ways.
00:05:17Then, you know, the Republicans come in with George Bush, we know nothing about.
00:05:25And when I didn't know them, I was very apprehensive about did we have anything in common.
00:05:33What I did know and what Tony made perfectly clear to me is that it was my duty to make
00:05:38sure that we got on.
00:05:44Over dinner, they discussed the biggest threats to the world. Bush outlines his plans for a nuclear missile shield to
00:05:52protect the United States of America.
00:05:55Though Cherie can't help but point out a flaw in his plan.
00:06:01I simply expressed the view that it didn't really matter how, what you had, if you had an individual who
00:06:08was determined, an individual terrorist who was determined to blow themselves up, you know, a nuclear shield or a, cannot
00:06:16really protect you.
00:06:23Tony, just listen, Tony.
00:06:26Two months on, Blair is in Brighton, preparing to make a major speech in support of the Euro at the
00:06:32TUC conference.
00:06:35We're in the Grand Hotel.
00:06:38And we're in a room where Tony was writing his speech.
00:06:43We were quiet, we were just getting on with our own work, because he didn't want any noise.
00:06:46But we had the TV on in the, over there.
00:06:55There's some very, very sketchy details reaching us here at Sky Centre.
00:06:59That happened within the last few moments.
00:07:03He said, turn it off, Alistair.
00:07:05He said, don't you go down, keep an eye on it.
00:07:12And as you can see, I don't know if you just saw the plane flying.
00:07:15There's another explosion.
00:07:18Another plane.
00:07:19We just saw a plane flying.
00:07:21And we see the second plane go in.
00:07:25And our special branch jump up out of their chairs, because they know this is not an accident anymore.
00:07:37Bill Congress, as Bill has just informed you, there have been the most terrible, shocking events taking place in the
00:07:47United States of America.
00:07:49Delegates, I hope you will understand.
00:07:59They're deciding how we should travel back to London, and they decided in the end that it would be safer
00:08:04for us to go on a train.
00:08:06Because if we were travelling in a normal convoy, that's easily spotted from the air.
00:08:15And I can remember Tony just sitting there with that look on his face, that look I know so well,
00:08:23and just staring out the window.
00:08:35Tony wrote this long, long, long, long list of things that we were going to need to do when we
00:08:39got back.
00:08:40Protection around buildings, airspace, dozens and dozens and dozens of things that we had to do.
00:08:47When to speak to Bush, say that they'll be feeling like Pearl Harbor.
00:08:51Because they're not used to being attacked like this, they'll be feeling like that.
00:08:55Bush will be under enormous pressure to do things very, very quickly.
00:08:59And we'll be under pressure to use this to take out all sorts of different enemies around the world.
00:09:05Nice and calm, we are at the front now, ladies and gents, please.
00:09:08Can you tell me why we've been in that row?
00:09:10What?
00:09:10Can we go across the road?
00:09:11Has there been a security alert?
00:09:12I can't tell you at this time, OK?
00:09:15We got hold of Blair.
00:09:17He said, well, how are the Americans going to react?
00:09:20His immediate reaction, without blinking.
00:09:24How do we stop the Americans doing anything stupid immediately?
00:09:32I was number 10 and the Prime Minister right back from Brighton.
00:09:36And I saw this figure stride very purposefully.
00:09:41And there was something in the stride and the gate that said that he recognised the world had changed.
00:09:52And he is a figure who I think always wanted to change history.
00:10:01This mass terrorism is the new evil in our world.
00:10:07We therefore here in Britain stand shoulder to shoulder with our American friends in this hour of tragedy.
00:10:16And we, like them, will not rest until this evil is driven from our world.
00:10:37The number of people missing in the rubble of the World Trade Center has jumped to 6,333.
00:10:45No one has emerged alive in more than a week.
00:10:47Mr Blair?
00:10:48Mr Blair?
00:10:49Mr Blair?
00:10:49Days after 9-11, Blair is in New York, heading to a service paying respect to British victims.
00:11:03It's important to recognize 9-11 at the time was this dramatic event.
00:11:08It was obvious America was going to act.
00:11:11And it was obvious they were going to act with a lot of force.
00:11:14If we weren't prepared to stand with them at that moment, and in what they thought was their moment of
00:11:19immense national peril,
00:11:22then if we ever had a moment of national peril, why should they stand with us?
00:11:26It wasn't just a moral question.
00:11:28It was primarily a question of it was fundamentally in Britain's national interest to be with America at this point.
00:11:40I can only imagine what it must have been like for people in New York, but my father's generation knew
00:11:47what it was like.
00:11:50They went through the Blitz.
00:11:54They know what it's like to suffer this type of tragedy and attack.
00:11:59And there was one country and one people that stood by us at that time.
00:12:06And that country was America, and those people were the American people.
00:12:12And as you stood side by side with us then, we stand side by side with you now.
00:12:20As it's established that the mastermind behind the attacks, Osama bin Laden, is operating in Afghanistan,
00:12:28President Bush prepares to reveal his response to the world.
00:12:33The President was going to give an address to the nation, and Prime Minister Blair said,
00:12:38I'm coming.
00:12:40And the President said, Tony, you don't have to do that.
00:12:43He said, no, I have to do that.
00:12:44I'm coming.
00:12:46And then the President said, do you want to speak?
00:12:48And he said, no, I just want to be there.
00:12:53And he came.
00:12:55And I told the Prime Minister that that was a moment when the special relationship really felt special.
00:13:05And on behalf of the American people, I thank the world for its outpouring of support.
00:13:10America will never forget the sounds of our national anthem playing at Buckingham Palace.
00:13:16America has no truer friend than Great Britain.
00:13:20Thank you for coming, friend.
00:13:31Our war on terror begins with Al Qaeda, but it does not end there.
00:13:43Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.
00:13:56After we'd been to America, it had been agreed that Tony would go on a sort of world tour,
00:14:02making sure that everybody was on board for taking on bin Laden.
00:14:07Tony Blair was the first European leader to arrive in Brussels straight from his session in Washington.
00:14:12The key tonight, a message of unwavering support for America for whatever she does to strike back.
00:14:19He did have a very strong sense of his own mission in the world.
00:14:24And he wanted to reconcile his ambition with what was morally right.
00:14:33We flew to Moscow, where he went off on his own, much to our concern, because we didn't like him
00:14:42going off by himself to see Putin.
00:14:44And they played billiards in Putin's stature.
00:14:48When we're battling something like the issue of international terrorism, but also on many other issues too,
00:14:54we need Russia there as a partner and a friend.
00:15:03Blair travels nearly 50,000 miles on more than 30 flights.
00:15:09He meets more than 50 world leaders, each time trying to persuade them to stand shoulder to shoulder with America.
00:15:20Some Arab countries, they are quite apprehensive.
00:15:24No Western leader is on record to say that no Arab countries will be targeted.
00:15:28Well, I think there are two different phases to this action.
00:15:31The first phase is to deal with Osama bin Laden, his network, the Al-Qaeda network in Afghanistan and these
00:15:38camps that are there,
00:15:38where they're training literally thousands of people to go out and export terror right around the world,
00:15:43including, incidentally, in the Middle East.
00:15:46But then the second phase is to say, well, what are the aspects of international terrorism that we need to
00:15:52deal with?
00:15:52Again, you evaded the question. You're not telling me whether an Arab country is targeted, whether it's Iraq, Syria or
00:15:58even Iran or Sudan in the future.
00:16:01What I'm saying to you is that no country is going to be targeted unless there is evidence that it
00:16:05is doing something wrong.
00:16:14Well, with 9-11, two things collided. One was his closeness to America.
00:16:22And secondly, this Manichean view of the world as a struggle between good and evil.
00:16:28And these two hit. These were two very, very strongly Christian-believing leaders in a way that I can't think
00:16:37that we've had before.
00:16:39And the fact that they were going to launch what is described in the Middle East as a crusade is
00:16:46a curious coincidence.
00:16:52Does the fact that George Bush and you are both Christians make it easier for you to view these conflicts
00:17:00in terms of good and evil?
00:17:02I don't think so, no. I think that whether you're a Christian or not a Christian, you can try and
00:17:06perceive what is good and what is evil.
00:17:08You don't pray together, for example?
00:17:10No, we don't pray together, Jeremy, no.
00:17:13Why do you smile?
00:17:16Because... Why do you ask me the question?
00:17:18Because I'm trying to find out how you feel about it, I mean...
00:17:23Possibly.
00:17:27To understand Tony Blair's Christianity, you have to go back to Oxford University in the early 1970s.
00:17:37Tony came up to Oxford. He immediately made friends.
00:17:44And I remember being in his room once, and there was a Bible lying on the table.
00:17:50And I said, oh, are you reading that?
00:17:53He said, yes, I am.
00:17:55Are you going to church? I think I'd put it like that. Are you going to church?
00:17:59He said, yes. And I didn't really discuss it with him.
00:18:03I'd always known that he...
00:18:05There was a part of him, a spiritual side to Tony.
00:18:11In his second year at Oxford, Blair is confirmed into the church,
00:18:16after meeting an older student, Peter Thompson, an Australian priest.
00:18:23We used to have these marvellous discussions that would go for hours, you know, cigarettes and coffee.
00:18:30And we'd get into religion and politics as one.
00:18:36He could have easily gone into the church.
00:18:40People often say that he speaks in a kind of messianic way.
00:18:46How do you feel about that?
00:18:47He tends to preach a little bit.
00:18:51I can understand what people are saying about that.
00:18:53In fact, I don't see it that way.
00:18:55I think he speaks in a more prophetic way, rather than a philosophical or analytical way.
00:19:02And it's about time politicians start to do that.
00:19:07Peter was probably the single biggest influence in my life, I should think.
00:19:13And I still think about him virtually every day.
00:19:17That meant that my Christianity and my politics were linked.
00:19:23Not in the way...
00:19:25Because whenever you talk about religion and politics, people can confuse it.
00:19:28Not in the sense that I felt some political mission about Christianity, as it were.
00:19:33But if you're going to do politics, do it for a reason that's bigger than you, that's got something to
00:19:40do with belief.
00:19:42Yes, I have, darling. Yes.
00:19:45Meeting Peter really inspired Tony.
00:19:48Talking to him about Christ as a radical who fought for the poor, who was engaged with the poor,
00:19:56who fought for what was right, I think was very much something that appealed to Tony.
00:20:01I mean, I think if you are a person of faith, it does shape your worldview.
00:20:10The idea of your beliefs being something that resulted in action was what he brought to my philosophy.
00:20:18In other words, your religious belief wasn't something that shut you away from the world,
00:20:21but something that meant that you had to go out and act.
00:20:30Within a month of 9-11, Blair sends British troops to join the American-led war in Afghanistan.
00:20:38And lays out his vision for a new world order.
00:20:42Out of the shadow of this evil should emerge lasting good.
00:20:49Whatever the dangers of the action we take, the dangers of inaction are far, far greater.
00:20:59To the Afghan people we make this commitment.
00:21:03We will not walk away as the outside world has done so many times before there.
00:21:10And I want to make it a fight for justice too.
00:21:14Justice not only to punish the guilty,
00:21:17but justice to bring those same values of democracy and freedom to people around the world.
00:21:30There was a sense that he was an instrument of God for goodness on the earth.
00:21:37That there was a battle between good and evil.
00:21:40This seems to me a dangerous way for any individual to live their life.
00:21:44But for a politician, it's quite dangerous,
00:21:48because the world doesn't really divide in that Manichean way.
00:21:55The war in Afghanistan begins.
00:22:01Once again, American bombs rained down on the Taliban frontline near Kabul.
00:22:07The Taliban is quickly toppled, but Bin Laden escapes.
00:22:25One month on, Blair flies into Afghanistan,
00:22:28under cover of darkness so as to avoid potential missile fire.
00:22:34As he greets the new Afghan leader, Blair is told to stay on the red carpet,
00:22:40as the airport hasn't yet been fully cleared of land mines.
00:22:47In the midst of the Taliban, theına and the Taliban have now been ready.
00:22:53As the Taliban's war, he is now able to see the right of the Taliban.
00:22:58The Taliban have now been in the right of the Taliban,
00:23:02and yet it's always been a matter of the Taliban.
00:23:12The Taliban have now been in the right of the Taliban.
00:23:13would be opposed by people in Afghanistan,
00:23:15that we would make the situation worse,
00:23:17that the whole of the region would be destabilised.
00:23:19Who would have guessed that today we have come a far greater distance
00:23:22than many might have anticipated?
00:23:24Thank you very much. Hansha? Well, yes, plenty of that.
00:23:27Yeah.
00:23:29Is that fine now?
00:23:32I think at that stage we all thought,
00:23:35this is great, Tony, you're keeping everyone together.
00:23:38We were proud of him and he did the right thing.
00:23:41And then Blair came out and said,
00:23:44we're going to eliminate opium.
00:23:47It's the cause of all the heroin addicts on the streets of Britain.
00:23:51You can't just tell people who they grow that
00:23:54because that's the only way to make a living,
00:23:56that you're just going to eliminate it.
00:23:58You have to offer them a better life and in an alternative way.
00:24:02And, of course, then he volunteered that Britain would take on Helmand,
00:24:06the most dangerous place in Afghanistan,
00:24:09and a lot of our soldiers lost their limbs and so on.
00:24:12And that was him being brave with other people's bodies
00:24:14in a not very well-thought-out way.
00:24:17So this Blair that was constraining America
00:24:23and being sensible about post-911 about Afghanistan
00:24:27then became the sort of gung-ho, militaristic Blair
00:24:31that didn't think things through
00:24:33and made announcements that weren't sensible.
00:24:37And you began to lose faith?
00:24:39Well, I mean, it's not faith, you know.
00:24:42He's not the Pope.
00:24:44You don't say, you know.
00:24:46But I became critical in my own head.
00:24:50He was making mistakes.
00:24:51That was going wrong.
00:25:08It's April 2002.
00:25:11Blair arrives at Crawford, President Bush's ranch in Texas,
00:25:16to discuss the next phase in the war on terror.
00:25:20Bush has plans to get rid of the Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein.
00:25:27Only that regime had actually used weapons of mass destruction,
00:25:33and the link for the US was these terrorist groups,
00:25:37if they managed to get hold of weapons of mass destruction,
00:25:41then instead of 3,000 people dying, it would be 30,000 or 300,000,
00:25:44and therefore we've got to deal with this issue.
00:25:47And, you know, there's a lot of...
00:25:50So much has been written and talked about it,
00:25:52but it really did start with that.
00:25:54And for me, there were two considerations.
00:25:58One, was it better to leave Saddam or remove him
00:26:01for the security of the world?
00:26:03And number two, being with America or not?
00:26:12The situation with Saddam Hussein and his weapons is complex and murky.
00:26:19It's known that previously he'd gassed his own people.
00:26:23The family living here had fled to their cellar
00:26:25when they heard the first explosion.
00:26:27They would have been unaware that the lethal gasses
00:26:30would penetrate every part of their home.
00:26:39Bush and Blair now fear his weapons of mass destruction
00:26:43could end up in the hands of terrorists.
00:26:47He claims he no longer has these weapons,
00:26:50but is he lying?
00:26:59We'll see everybody tomorrow.
00:27:02Mr. President, will the secretary...
00:27:03As I said, we'll see you tomorrow.
00:27:05No, I'm safe.
00:27:06No, no, you can't wait, and neither can I.
00:27:10Okay.
00:27:11Neither can the prime minister, for that matter.
00:27:14How you doing, Ari?
00:27:17You're looking just like a cowboy.
00:27:20President George Bush himself,
00:27:23Iraq was not just a sort of global issue,
00:27:27but a personal issue,
00:27:28because they'd tried to kill his father.
00:27:32And George Bush is someone who holds a grudge,
00:27:38takes things personally.
00:27:42And President Bush is someone who puts
00:27:46an awful lot of weight on personal relationships.
00:27:55The prime minister recognised that,
00:27:58and therefore, the best strategy in influencing
00:28:02President Bush's response
00:28:04was to be seen to be supportive to President Bush.
00:28:11We used to sit there,
00:28:14and Tony and George Bush used to go for a walk.
00:28:18And you could see Bush's people hated it.
00:28:20They hated it.
00:28:21Why?
00:28:22Well, because they'd come back an hour later,
00:28:24or whatever, or having wandered around the woods.
00:28:26They'd come back,
00:28:28and, you know, President Bush would say,
00:28:30so this is where Tony and I have got to,
00:28:33and Cheney and Roosevelt were always horrified, probably.
00:28:36You know, they were just like,
00:28:37but that wasn't the plan,
00:28:37that's not where this is supposed to be.
00:28:39So an awful lot of politics in the end
00:28:42is about people and relationships,
00:28:44and ultimately that's the way
00:28:46that you get movement from leaders.
00:28:49Good morning.
00:28:51We appreciate the rain
00:28:53that the prime minister brought with him,
00:28:55and so do the other farmers and ranchers in the area.
00:28:58Prime Minister, thanks for bringing it.
00:28:59My pleasure, Josh.
00:29:02The prime minister and I, of course, talked about Iraq.
00:29:06I explained that the policy of my government
00:29:09is the removal of Saddam,
00:29:11and that all options are on the table.
00:29:15I can say that
00:29:20any sensible person
00:29:22looking at the position
00:29:25of Saddam Hussein
00:29:26and asking the question
00:29:30would
00:29:31the region,
00:29:33the world,
00:29:34and not least
00:29:35the ordinary Iraqi people
00:29:38be better off
00:29:39without the regime of Saddam Hussein?
00:29:41The only answer anyone could give to that question
00:29:44would be yes.
00:29:45John Sargent, ITN.
00:29:47John Sargent, ITN.
00:29:49Brian Layard.
00:29:50Prime Minister,
00:29:51we've heard the president say
00:29:53what his policy is directly about Saddam Hussein,
00:29:55which is to remove him.
00:29:57That is the policy of the American administration.
00:29:59Could I ask you whether that is now the policy
00:30:01of the British government?
00:30:03Well, John, you know,
00:30:04it has always been our policy
00:30:06that Iraq would be a better place
00:30:08without Saddam Hussein.
00:30:09Maybe I should be a little less direct
00:30:11and be a little more nuanced
00:30:13and say we support regime change.
00:30:17It's certainly the policy
00:30:18of my administration.
00:30:20And I think regime change
00:30:23sounds a lot more civil, doesn't it?
00:30:25Yeah.
00:30:26What Europeans have a problem with
00:30:28about expanding any war on terror
00:30:29to Iraq is linkage.
00:30:31They can see a linkage
00:30:32between Al-Qaeda
00:30:33and Afghanistan.
00:30:35They can't see a direct linkage
00:30:37to Saddam Hussein.
00:30:38Would you accept
00:30:39that there isn't a direct linkage
00:30:40and how therefore you make the moral case?
00:30:42First of all, I wouldn't accept that,
00:30:43but can't they see linkage
00:30:44between somebody
00:30:45who's willing to murder
00:30:46his own people
00:30:49and the danger of him
00:30:51possessing weapons
00:30:52of mass destruction?
00:30:54The thing I admire
00:30:55about this prime minister
00:30:56is he doesn't need a poll
00:30:57or a focus group
00:30:59to convince him
00:31:00the difference between right and wrong.
00:31:02Thank you all.
00:31:04Good job.
00:31:05Appreciate you.
00:31:10So after Crawford
00:31:12Blair writes Bush a letter
00:31:15which begins
00:31:16I will be with you whatever.
00:31:18What does it say?
00:31:19I will be with you whatever.
00:31:21I'm sorry, I'm sorry
00:31:21the day it went, yeah.
00:31:24It was not his best moment
00:31:30and I don't know quite to this day
00:31:33why he sent it.
00:31:34The ambiguity
00:31:35in his relationships
00:31:37which could be brilliantly used
00:31:42to good effect
00:31:43as he did over
00:31:44the Good Friday Agreement
00:31:45could also lead people
00:31:47to drawing from
00:31:48what he was saying
00:31:50what they wanted to hear
00:31:52and my anxiety
00:31:53was that this would be seen
00:31:55as a kind of blank check
00:31:57by the United States
00:31:59and that the consequence
00:32:00of that would be
00:32:01that our leverage
00:32:02would be reduced.
00:32:04You know, people just put
00:32:05far too much emphasis
00:32:06on the precise wording.
00:32:08Oh, but hang on.
00:32:09You're a lawyer.
00:32:10You know the importance of words.
00:32:12Yeah, of course the importance of words.
00:32:13Didn't that commit you
00:32:14to a slippery slope
00:32:15that you couldn't get off?
00:32:16No, of course not.
00:32:17I was actually trying
00:32:18to persuade the Americans
00:32:19to do something different.
00:32:21Right.
00:32:22I wanted us to go through
00:32:25a UN process.
00:32:27I wanted to try
00:32:28and rally the world
00:32:29as far as possible.
00:32:30I thought it was possible
00:32:31that we might get
00:32:33Saddam to agree
00:32:35to the conditions
00:32:36that we wanted.
00:32:39And I knew it was important
00:32:43that President Bush felt
00:32:44I was with him
00:32:45on the essential issue.
00:32:47Would there have been
00:32:48anything that Americans
00:32:49had proposed or even done
00:32:51that would have made you
00:32:53withdraw that support?
00:32:55Well, if they hadn't
00:32:56gone through the UN process
00:32:58it would have been
00:32:59extremely difficult for us,
00:33:00but they did.
00:33:02Was that a commitment
00:33:03that we were going to do
00:33:04whatever the Americans wanted?
00:33:05Of course not.
00:33:06But I was going to be with them
00:33:08in dealing with Saddam
00:33:09because I believe
00:33:10that was necessary
00:33:11and I still do.
00:33:21Blair persuades Bush
00:33:22not to invade Iraq
00:33:23straight away.
00:33:24On behalf of the General Assembly
00:33:26I have the honour
00:33:28to welcome to the United Nations
00:33:29Mr. George W. Bush.
00:33:33But to use the UN
00:33:35to give Saddam an ultimatum.
00:33:38Give up any weapons
00:33:40of mass destruction you have
00:33:41and let inspectors in
00:33:43to look for them
00:33:44or face the consequences.
00:33:47We've accomplished much
00:33:49in the last year
00:33:50in Afghanistan and beyond.
00:33:53We have much yet to do
00:33:56in Afghanistan and beyond.
00:34:03Back home
00:34:04Blair is under growing pressure
00:34:06to show that Iraq
00:34:07is an imminent threat
00:34:09to the world.
00:34:10Can you here today
00:34:12offer one piece of evidence
00:34:14that action is necessary?
00:34:16One piece of evidence
00:34:17is that they're in breach
00:34:19of 23 of the demands
00:34:22that the UN has made
00:34:23in respect of their weapons
00:34:24chemical, biological
00:34:25and nuclear weapons.
00:34:27The Americans
00:34:28in raising this issue
00:34:29are not wrong
00:34:30and the reason why
00:34:32our place is beside them
00:34:33is not because of
00:34:34some misplaced allegiance
00:34:35or because of blind loyalty.
00:34:38It's because it's
00:34:38the right thing to do.
00:34:41His commitment to America
00:34:42and to being with America
00:34:43was much stronger
00:34:45than I had understood
00:34:46and I went to see him
00:34:49and I said to him
00:34:51I'm very worried
00:34:52about what you're doing
00:34:53on Iraq.
00:34:53My advice to you
00:34:56is you should only
00:34:57go into Iraq
00:34:58if you have evidence
00:34:59of the weapons
00:35:01and support
00:35:03of the United Nations.
00:35:05Oh Richard,
00:35:06he said don't worry
00:35:06I'm not going to do
00:35:07anything stupid.
00:35:09We can buy off
00:35:10the Russians
00:35:10they need money
00:35:11the Germans will be on side
00:35:12the French will be difficult
00:35:14at the last minute
00:35:14and they'll give in
00:35:15it'll be all right.
00:35:22I think he wanted
00:35:23to carry the dream
00:35:24further in Iraq.
00:35:26I think he thought
00:35:27he would end up
00:35:29with a very popular invasion
00:35:31the fall of a
00:35:32much hated tyrant.
00:35:35people throwing flowers
00:35:37over the troops
00:35:38he could go back
00:35:40to the issue
00:35:41which still was
00:35:41absolutely in his mind
00:35:43and which he wanted
00:35:44which is membership
00:35:45of the Euro
00:35:46that we would enter
00:35:47the Euro
00:35:48we would have a bridge
00:35:50across the Atlantic
00:35:51to Bush
00:35:52who would be grateful
00:35:53to him
00:35:53and he'd be in a very
00:35:54powerful position
00:35:55in the world.
00:35:56That was the ambition
00:35:57that was the dream
00:35:58that was the inner vision.
00:36:08Blair is seeing
00:36:10MI6 intelligence
00:36:11that suggests
00:36:12that Saddam Hussein
00:36:13does have weapons
00:36:14of mass destruction.
00:36:21Blair now gets
00:36:22his director of communications
00:36:24Alastair Campbell
00:36:25to go to MI6
00:36:27and the spies
00:36:27to help them
00:36:29present their evidence.
00:36:32What about the criticism
00:36:33though
00:36:34that it was presented
00:36:35with a certainty
00:36:36that it didn't warrant?
00:36:38Well listen
00:36:39I understand
00:36:39lots of people
00:36:40made that criticism
00:36:41what some people
00:36:42in the intelligence
00:36:42community will say
00:36:44is that you can
00:36:45never be certain
00:36:46but I would argue
00:36:47there was an ultra caution
00:36:48to the whole thing.
00:36:50To have the chief
00:36:51spin doctor
00:36:52of a government
00:36:52helping to edit
00:36:53and tinker
00:36:55with an intelligence
00:36:56dossier
00:36:57I think it's just
00:36:58beyond the pill.
00:36:59The whole Blairite obsession
00:37:01with spin
00:37:03of which Alastair Campbell
00:37:04was the prima donna
00:37:06led to a dossier
00:37:09that was false
00:37:10hyped up
00:37:11and inaccurate.
00:37:13Yes you can set it
00:37:14against what's followed
00:37:16and the failure
00:37:17to find a weapons
00:37:18of mass destruction
00:37:19program
00:37:19and say well
00:37:20that was bullshit
00:37:21but based upon
00:37:23the intelligence
00:37:25and the assessment
00:37:26of the intelligence
00:37:27that was going
00:37:27into that document
00:37:28I certainly don't
00:37:30accept the charge
00:37:30of deception
00:37:31and I don't accept
00:37:32even that we
00:37:33exaggerated.
00:37:37Long delayed
00:37:38much anticipated
00:37:40the dossier
00:37:41had journalists
00:37:41sprinting
00:37:42to deliver its message
00:37:43Iraq's weapons
00:37:45threaten the world's
00:37:46stability.
00:37:47His missiles
00:37:47could hit Cyprus
00:37:48an attack
00:37:49could be 45 minutes away.
00:37:53I think he made up
00:37:54his mind early on
00:37:55that he was going
00:37:55with America
00:37:56and it was a question
00:37:57of how to manipulate
00:37:58his way through.
00:38:01I'm sure he thought
00:38:02he was doing it
00:38:03for a good cause
00:38:06but you know
00:38:07human frailty
00:38:08says we can all
00:38:09do that
00:38:10convince ourselves
00:38:11that we did it
00:38:12for the right reasons.
00:38:14Are we going to war
00:38:15Prime Minister?
00:38:16We didn't have
00:38:18black and white evidence
00:38:19to present to the public
00:38:22so what we had to present
00:38:25was our judgement.
00:38:27Not just the material
00:38:28contained in the dossier
00:38:30but also the material
00:38:32he'd seen over years
00:38:33but he himself
00:38:35said
00:38:37that his views
00:38:38were based
00:38:39on a conviction
00:38:41a belief
00:38:43that that was
00:38:44the case.
00:38:58Arc Royal
00:38:59heads the biggest
00:39:00task force
00:39:01deployed since
00:39:02the Falklands War.
00:39:07It's January 2003
00:39:09and British forces
00:39:11are headed
00:39:12to the Middle East.
00:39:16I'm a bit worried
00:39:17and nervous
00:39:19about the dad
00:39:20and hope he's
00:39:20going to be alright.
00:39:23In the last two months
00:39:24UN inspectors
00:39:26have found no weapons
00:39:27of mass destruction
00:39:28in Iraq
00:39:30but Blair is convinced
00:39:32Saddam Hussein
00:39:33is giving them
00:39:33the runaround
00:39:35and now
00:39:36Blair is facing
00:39:37growing opposition
00:39:38to the prospect
00:39:39of war.
00:39:43I was in my
00:39:44speaking term
00:39:45of Muslim countries
00:39:47about why we all
00:39:49needed to sort of
00:39:50come together.
00:39:51The reaction I got
00:39:52was pretty darn
00:39:54strong.
00:39:57people questioned
00:39:58our motives.
00:40:01I came back
00:40:03we sat on the
00:40:04outside on the
00:40:05terrace
00:40:06at number 10
00:40:08and I said
00:40:09look
00:40:09you know
00:40:10I'm worried
00:40:11here that
00:40:12the Arab world
00:40:13the Muslim world
00:40:14will feel
00:40:14that this is
00:40:16some sort of
00:40:17fresh sort of
00:40:18crusaders
00:40:19that we're
00:40:19embarking on
00:40:20here.
00:40:21You know
00:40:22there could be
00:40:23if we played it
00:40:24wrongly
00:40:24quite a backlash.
00:40:26He was
00:40:28not really
00:40:29convinced
00:40:29said I'd been
00:40:30spending far too
00:40:32long with the
00:40:32wrong people.
00:40:33Sometimes with
00:40:34Tony
00:40:36he thinks that
00:40:38leadership is so
00:40:39important
00:40:40and being decisive
00:40:41is so important
00:40:42that he sometimes
00:40:43becomes a little
00:40:44tin-eared
00:40:45you know
00:40:46to what other
00:40:46people are saying
00:40:48you know
00:40:48careful here
00:40:49think of that
00:40:51bring this
00:40:52into the
00:40:52balance a bit
00:40:53more
00:40:53and that's
00:40:55what I felt
00:40:55at the time.
00:40:57Marching
00:40:58through the
00:40:59streets of
00:40:59London
00:40:59sending a
00:41:01message to
00:41:01Tony Blair
00:41:02and George W.
00:41:03Bush
00:41:03not in my
00:41:05name.
00:41:08Don't attack
00:41:09Don't attack
00:41:10Iraq
00:41:12Don't attack
00:41:13Don't attack
00:41:14Iraq
00:41:14When you think
00:41:16of Tony Blair
00:41:17what words
00:41:18spring to mind?
00:41:20I think
00:41:21he's a man
00:41:21in denial
00:41:22actually.
00:41:26On the
00:41:27day of
00:41:28the march
00:41:28it was
00:41:32quite
00:41:33emotional.
00:41:38I thought
00:41:39wow
00:41:39we've
00:41:40mobilized
00:41:40these people
00:41:41can the
00:41:42political
00:41:42establishment
00:41:43ignore this?
00:41:46they just
00:41:47felt so
00:41:47angry
00:41:48that their
00:41:48country
00:41:49was going
00:41:50to war
00:41:50without
00:41:51their
00:41:51approval.
00:41:54It's
00:41:55the scale
00:41:56of the
00:41:56protest
00:41:56that is
00:41:57unprecedented
00:41:57million people
00:41:59it's the
00:42:00biggest rally
00:42:01ever on
00:42:01British soil.
00:42:03Thousands
00:42:04more deaths
00:42:05in Iraq
00:42:06will set
00:42:07off
00:42:07a spiral
00:42:08of conflict
00:42:10of hate
00:42:11of misery
00:42:12of desperation
00:42:13that will
00:42:14fuel
00:42:14the wars
00:42:15the conflict
00:42:16the terrorism
00:42:17the depression
00:42:18and the misery
00:42:19of future
00:42:20generations.
00:42:26You could hear
00:42:27the protests
00:42:28in 10 Downing Street.
00:42:30Don't attack
00:42:31Iraq!
00:42:32Don't attack
00:42:33Don't attack
00:42:34Iraq!
00:42:35It's a very
00:42:35strange time
00:42:36I think it was
00:42:37hard for my
00:42:38children to
00:42:39come in every
00:42:40day and people
00:42:41were standing
00:42:42there
00:42:42cording their
00:42:42father a
00:42:43murderer and
00:42:44a liar
00:42:48I don't know
00:42:49what I would
00:42:50have felt
00:42:50if I was
00:42:53out there
00:42:54rather than
00:42:55in 10 Downing
00:42:56Street
00:42:56but what I did
00:42:57know
00:42:58was that
00:42:59when Tony
00:43:01said
00:43:02as he
00:43:03absolutely
00:43:03believed
00:43:04that Saddam Hussein
00:43:05had these
00:43:06weapons of
00:43:06mass destruction
00:43:07he told me
00:43:08that was the
00:43:08case
00:43:09I absolutely
00:43:10know that
00:43:11that's
00:43:12what he
00:43:13thought was
00:43:14true.
00:43:18The morning
00:43:19of the big
00:43:21protests
00:43:21we were in
00:43:22Scotland
00:43:23he said
00:43:24that morning
00:43:25he'd not slept
00:43:29he said
00:43:30that he was
00:43:30feeling
00:43:32worried
00:43:34I think
00:43:34he felt
00:43:35frustrated
00:43:37a lot
00:43:37of the
00:43:38things that
00:43:38Saddam Hussein
00:43:39had done
00:43:39in the past
00:43:40was
00:43:41were just
00:43:42sort of
00:43:42being pushed
00:43:42aside
00:43:46not least
00:43:47his use
00:43:47of chemical
00:43:48weapons
00:43:48not least
00:43:49the torture
00:43:50chambers
00:43:50not least
00:43:51the
00:43:52executions
00:43:53all the
00:43:53stuff
00:43:53that he
00:43:53did
00:43:59that
00:44:00didn't
00:44:01really
00:44:01have a
00:44:02big enough
00:44:02space
00:44:02within the
00:44:03public
00:44:03debate
00:44:03and I
00:44:04do
00:44:04remember
00:44:05meetings
00:44:05that he
00:44:05had
00:44:05with
00:44:06Iraqis
00:44:06who
00:44:06were
00:44:07really
00:44:08pushing
00:44:09him
00:44:09saying
00:44:10look
00:44:10I know
00:44:11how difficult
00:44:11has he
00:44:12got to
00:44:12keep
00:44:12going
00:44:12what
00:44:13we
00:44:13have
00:44:13lived
00:44:13with
00:44:14is
00:44:14an
00:44:15abomination
00:44:17Ridding
00:44:17the world
00:44:18of
00:44:18Saddam
00:44:19would
00:44:20be
00:44:20an
00:44:20act
00:44:20of
00:44:21humanity
00:44:22it
00:44:22is
00:44:22leaving
00:44:22him
00:44:23there
00:44:23that
00:44:24is
00:44:24inhumane
00:44:28did
00:44:29anything
00:44:29give
00:44:30you
00:44:30pause
00:44:31for
00:44:31thought
00:44:31a million
00:44:32people
00:44:32on
00:44:32the
00:44:32streets
00:44:32Nelson
00:44:33Mandela
00:44:33no
00:44:34of
00:44:34course
00:44:34all
00:44:35of
00:44:35it
00:44:35but
00:44:35you
00:44:36see
00:44:36in
00:44:36the
00:44:36end
00:44:36the
00:44:37problem
00:44:37and
00:44:38it's
00:44:38one
00:44:38of
00:44:38the
00:44:38things
00:44:38you
00:44:38learn
00:44:39about
00:44:39leaders
00:44:40and
00:44:40leadership
00:44:41is
00:44:41that
00:44:42ultimately
00:44:42you
00:44:42sit
00:44:43in
00:44:43the
00:44:43seat
00:44:43you
00:44:43got
00:44:43to
00:44:43take
00:44:43the
00:44:44decision
00:44:44and
00:44:44you
00:44:45know
00:44:45you
00:44:45you
00:44:46you
00:44:46got
00:44:46to
00:44:46stand
00:44:47by
00:44:47it
00:44:53how did
00:44:54it
00:44:54affect
00:44:54him
00:44:56i think
00:44:56it
00:44:56made
00:44:57him
00:44:57more
00:44:58conscious
00:45:00of
00:45:01the need
00:45:02to keep
00:45:03trying to
00:45:03explain
00:45:03why he
00:45:04was
00:45:04doing
00:45:04it
00:45:06did
00:45:07it
00:45:07ever
00:45:07cause
00:45:07him
00:45:07to
00:45:07doubt
00:45:08the
00:45:08doing
00:45:10not
00:45:11that
00:45:11I
00:45:11saw
00:45:12not
00:45:13that
00:45:13I
00:45:13saw
00:45:16Blair
00:45:16doesn't
00:45:17waver
00:45:17but
00:45:18he
00:45:18agrees
00:45:18with
00:45:18his
00:45:18team
00:45:19to
00:45:19embark
00:45:20on
00:45:20a
00:45:20new
00:45:20media
00:45:21strategy
00:45:23well
00:45:23I
00:45:23mean
00:45:24the
00:45:24massacres
00:45:24and
00:45:24strategy
00:45:25I
00:45:26would
00:45:26say
00:45:26that
00:45:26was
00:45:26the
00:45:27period
00:45:27when
00:45:27he
00:45:27was
00:45:28most
00:45:29fed
00:45:30up
00:45:30with
00:45:30the
00:45:30team
00:45:30because
00:45:31we
00:45:31were
00:45:32sending
00:45:32him
00:45:32forth
00:45:33to
00:45:33see
00:45:33largely
00:45:34kind
00:45:35of
00:45:35mothers
00:45:35of
00:45:36service
00:45:37people
00:45:37who'd
00:45:37lost
00:45:38their
00:45:38lives
00:45:38or
00:45:38lost
00:45:38their
00:45:38limbs
00:45:39or
00:45:39whatever
00:45:39and
00:45:40it
00:45:40was
00:45:40grim
00:45:40and
00:45:41it
00:45:41was
00:45:41really
00:45:41grim
00:45:41but
00:45:42we
00:45:42felt
00:45:42he
00:45:42had
00:45:43to
00:45:43he
00:45:43had
00:45:44to
00:45:44talk
00:45:44to
00:45:44them
00:45:44he
00:45:44had
00:45:44to
00:45:44be
00:45:45seen
00:45:45to
00:45:45talk
00:45:45to
00:45:45them
00:45:47you
00:45:47said
00:45:48that
00:45:48you
00:45:48were
00:45:49really
00:45:49keen
00:45:49to
00:45:49go
00:45:50down
00:45:50the
00:45:50UN
00:45:50route
00:45:51but
00:45:51quite
00:45:52clearly
00:45:52you
00:45:53don't
00:45:53give
00:45:53us
00:45:53stuff
00:45:54we're
00:45:54going
00:45:54to
00:45:55go
00:45:55to
00:45:55war
00:46:05You're
00:46:05going
00:46:05to
00:46:06do
00:46:06it
00:46:06anyway
00:46:06no
00:46:07I'm
00:46:08not
00:46:08saying
00:46:08I'm
00:46:08going
00:46:08to
00:46:09do
00:46:09it
00:46:09anyway
00:46:09still
00:46:09prepared
00:46:10to
00:46:10risk
00:46:10all
00:46:10the
00:46:11good
00:46:11work
00:46:11that
00:46:11you've
00:46:11done
00:46:12on
00:46:12this
00:46:13one
00:46:13issue
00:46:15In
00:46:15the
00:46:16days
00:46:16before
00:46:16the
00:46:16invasion
00:46:17he's
00:46:18questioned
00:46:18by a
00:46:19mother
00:46:19whose
00:46:19son
00:46:20was
00:46:20killed
00:46:20on
00:46:219-11
00:46:21I
00:46:22lost
00:46:22my
00:46:23only
00:46:23child
00:46:23in
00:46:24the
00:46:24World
00:46:24Trade
00:46:24Center
00:46:25now
00:46:26for
00:46:27the
00:46:27last
00:46:2718
00:46:27months
00:46:28my
00:46:28pain
00:46:29has
00:46:29been
00:46:29unbearable
00:46:30you
00:46:31are
00:46:32a
00:46:32genuine
00:46:34man
00:46:35a
00:46:35family
00:46:36orientated
00:46:37man
00:46:37a
00:46:38man
00:46:38who's
00:46:38not
00:46:38only
00:46:39a
00:46:39Christian
00:46:39but
00:46:40a
00:46:40church
00:46:40going
00:46:40Christian
00:46:41now
00:46:42to
00:46:42me
00:46:42Mr Blair
00:46:43what
00:46:44you're
00:46:44going
00:46:44to
00:46:44do
00:46:45and
00:46:45I'm
00:46:45sure
00:46:45you're
00:46:46going
00:46:46to
00:46:46do
00:46:46it
00:46:46you
00:46:46and
00:46:47Mr Bush
00:46:47you're
00:46:48going
00:46:48to
00:46:48go
00:46:48and
00:46:49bomb
00:46:49Iraq
00:46:50you
00:46:51don't
00:46:51know
00:46:51how
00:46:51many
00:46:51people
00:46:53like
00:46:53me
00:46:53that's
00:46:54going
00:46:54to
00:46:54suffer
00:46:54so
00:46:55much
00:46:55how
00:46:55many
00:46:56innocent
00:46:56victims
00:46:57are
00:46:57you
00:46:57going
00:46:57to
00:46:57kill
00:46:57and
00:46:58how
00:46:58many
00:46:58people
00:46:59are
00:46:59going
00:46:59to
00:46:59suffer
00:47:00like
00:47:00I've
00:47:01suffered
00:47:01no
00:47:02Mr Blair
00:47:03don't
00:47:03do
00:47:04it
00:47:06I'm
00:47:07doing it
00:47:07because I
00:47:07think it's
00:47:07the right
00:47:08thing to
00:47:08do
00:47:08and I
00:47:09hope
00:47:09even at
00:47:09this
00:47:10stage
00:47:10we can
00:47:10avoid
00:47:10conflict
00:47:11actually
00:47:12but if
00:47:13this goes
00:47:13badly
00:47:15you're
00:47:15finished
00:47:15really
00:47:16aren't
00:47:16you
00:47:16well
00:47:16let's
00:47:17wait
00:47:17and see
00:47:17Trevor
00:47:18shall
00:47:18we
00:47:18about
00:47:18that
00:47:19as to
00:47:20whether
00:47:20it
00:47:20goes
00:47:20badly
00:47:20thank
00:47:21you
00:47:21thank
00:47:22you
00:47:34for the
00:47:35diplomats
00:47:36discuss
00:47:36deadlines
00:47:37the
00:47:37American
00:47:38and
00:47:38British
00:47:38troops
00:47:39are
00:47:40ready
00:47:40and
00:47:41waiting
00:47:41for
00:47:41war
00:47:45with
00:47:46America
00:47:47ready
00:47:47to
00:47:47attack
00:47:48Blair
00:47:49is
00:47:49on
00:47:49a
00:47:49mission
00:47:51he
00:47:52wants
00:47:52world
00:47:52leaders
00:47:53to
00:47:53sign
00:47:53another
00:47:54UN
00:47:54resolution
00:47:55giving
00:47:56a
00:47:56clearer
00:47:57authorization
00:48:01for
00:48:02I
00:48:03remember
00:48:03talking
00:48:03to
00:48:04President
00:48:04Mubarak
00:48:04at the
00:48:05time
00:48:05he
00:48:06said
00:48:06I
00:48:07trained
00:48:07as
00:48:08an
00:48:08air
00:48:08force
00:48:08pilot
00:48:09in
00:48:09Baghdad
00:48:10I
00:48:10know
00:48:10what
00:48:11the
00:48:11Iraqis
00:48:11are
00:48:11like
00:48:11and
00:48:12your
00:48:12invasion
00:48:13of
00:48:13Iraq
00:48:13will
00:48:14create
00:48:14not
00:48:14one
00:48:15but
00:48:15a
00:48:15hundred
00:48:15bin
00:48:15ladins
00:48:16what
00:48:17surprised
00:48:18me
00:48:18even
00:48:18more
00:48:18was
00:48:19my
00:48:20American
00:48:20counterpart
00:48:21who
00:48:21was
00:48:21a
00:48:22good
00:48:22friend
00:48:22obviously
00:48:23David
00:48:23Welch
00:48:24saying
00:48:24to
00:48:24me
00:48:25very
00:48:25privately
00:48:27John
00:48:27your
00:48:28service
00:48:28and our
00:48:28services
00:48:29have been
00:48:29looking for
00:48:29this
00:48:30WMD
00:48:30for the
00:48:31last
00:48:32ten years
00:48:33the Russians
00:48:33and the
00:48:34French
00:48:34we've all
00:48:34been looking
00:48:35for it
00:48:35and we
00:48:35haven't
00:48:35found it
00:48:36maybe
00:48:36there
00:48:37isn't
00:48:37any
00:48:37everyone
00:48:38agrees
00:48:38that
00:48:38that is
00:48:38a threat
00:48:39everyone
00:48:40agrees
00:48:40that he
00:48:41must be
00:48:41disarmed
00:48:41otherwise
00:48:42he
00:48:42poses
00:48:42but
00:48:43it
00:48:43soon
00:48:43becomes
00:48:44clear
00:48:44that
00:48:44Jacques
00:48:45Chirac
00:48:45the
00:48:46French
00:48:46president
00:48:46is
00:48:47a
00:48:47problem
00:48:51privately
00:48:51he
00:48:52had
00:48:52given
00:48:52Blair
00:48:53some
00:48:53personal
00:48:53advice
00:48:56he
00:48:57said
00:48:57if
00:48:57you
00:48:57go
00:48:58to
00:48:58war
00:48:58in
00:48:58Iraq
00:48:59in
00:49:00the
00:49:00future
00:49:00you
00:49:01will
00:49:01not
00:49:01be
00:49:01able
00:49:01to
00:49:01look
00:49:02your
00:49:02baby
00:49:02son
00:49:02Leo
00:49:03in
00:49:03the
00:49:03eye
00:49:06with
00:49:07Chirac
00:49:07against
00:49:08the
00:49:08UN
00:49:09resolution
00:49:09cannot
00:49:10pass
00:49:14so
00:49:15Blair
00:49:15has
00:49:16to
00:49:16decide
00:49:16whether
00:49:17to
00:49:18go
00:49:18ahead
00:49:18with
00:49:18America
00:49:19or
00:49:20change
00:49:20course
00:49:24before
00:49:25taking
00:49:25the
00:49:25decision
00:49:26he
00:49:27has
00:49:27a
00:49:27secret
00:49:27meeting
00:49:28with
00:49:29an
00:49:29old
00:49:29friend
00:49:29at
00:49:31his
00:49:31country
00:49:31retreat
00:49:32Chequers
00:49:37oh
00:49:37I
00:49:38felt
00:49:38terrible
00:49:38for him
00:49:39because
00:49:41he
00:49:42had
00:49:42established
00:49:42a good
00:49:43relationship
00:49:43with
00:49:44Bush
00:49:44he
00:49:45realized
00:49:45that
00:49:45he
00:49:46couldn't
00:49:46get
00:49:46what
00:49:47he
00:49:47tried
00:49:47to
00:49:48do
00:49:49which
00:49:49is
00:49:50a
00:49:50brief
00:49:50extension
00:49:51of
00:49:51the
00:49:51deadline
00:49:53so
00:49:53that
00:49:54all
00:49:54the
00:49:54inspections
00:49:55could
00:49:55be
00:49:55completed
00:49:56the
00:49:56Bush
00:49:56administration
00:49:58was ready
00:49:58to go
00:49:59to war
00:49:59and thought
00:49:59it was
00:50:00important
00:50:00and the
00:50:01rest
00:50:01of the
00:50:02world
00:50:02disagreed
00:50:02with
00:50:03him
00:50:03almost
00:50:03everybody
00:50:03did
00:50:06so
00:50:07when you're
00:50:08caught in
00:50:09the middle
00:50:10and you
00:50:11want to
00:50:12maintain
00:50:12your unique
00:50:13relationship
00:50:13with the
00:50:14United States
00:50:16and you
00:50:17want to
00:50:18support
00:50:18European
00:50:19Union
00:50:19unity
00:50:20not
00:50:20take it
00:50:21apart
00:50:25you
00:50:26wind up
00:50:30taking
00:50:30the best
00:50:31of two
00:50:31unattractive
00:50:32alternatives
00:50:36I
00:50:36didn't
00:50:37believe
00:50:37it was
00:50:39critical
00:50:39to our
00:50:40position
00:50:40in the
00:50:41world
00:50:41our
00:50:41credibility
00:50:42in the
00:50:42world
00:50:42on terror
00:50:43all that
00:50:43kind of
00:50:44stuff
00:50:44I
00:50:44didn't
00:50:44believe
00:50:44that
00:50:45so
00:50:45he
00:50:45was
00:50:46in
00:50:46a
00:50:46pickle
00:50:48and
00:50:51he
00:50:51did
00:50:51what
00:50:52he
00:50:52thought
00:50:53was
00:50:53right
00:50:55and
00:50:56I
00:50:57think
00:50:57he
00:50:57still
00:50:57thinks
00:50:58he
00:50:58did
00:50:58the
00:50:58right
00:50:58thing
00:50:59do
00:51:00you
00:51:04I
00:51:05don't
00:51:05know
00:51:05what
00:51:05I
00:51:05would
00:51:05have
00:51:05done
00:51:06under
00:51:06the
00:51:06circumstances
00:51:07if I
00:51:07been
00:51:07prime
00:51:07minister
00:51:08of
00:51:08the
00:51:08UK
00:51:12I
00:51:13think
00:51:13he
00:51:13was
00:51:13incredibly
00:51:14disappointed
00:51:15because
00:51:15he
00:51:16really
00:51:16had
00:51:17fought
00:51:17for
00:51:17a
00:51:17second
00:51:17resolution
00:51:19but
00:51:19in
00:51:20the
00:51:20end
00:51:20he
00:51:20still
00:51:20felt
00:51:21he
00:51:21had
00:51:21to
00:51:21take
00:51:21the
00:51:21decision
00:51:23and
00:51:23he
00:51:24said
00:51:24I
00:51:24am
00:51:24going
00:51:24to
00:51:24press
00:51:25ahead
00:51:25with
00:51:25this
00:51:25but
00:51:26if
00:51:26you're
00:51:26not
00:51:26you
00:51:27Sally
00:51:27you
00:51:28any
00:51:28number
00:51:29of
00:51:29people
00:51:30don't
00:51:30think
00:51:30that's
00:51:31right
00:51:31and
00:51:31don't
00:51:32you
00:51:32know
00:51:32don't
00:51:32want
00:51:32to
00:51:33do
00:51:33that
00:51:33I
00:51:34would
00:51:34completely
00:51:34understand
00:51:34that
00:51:37there's
00:51:38so many
00:51:38decisions
00:51:39as prime
00:51:39minister
00:51:40of
00:51:4050-50
00:51:41you
00:51:41have
00:51:42to
00:51:42choose
00:51:42but
00:51:43once
00:51:44Tony
00:51:44has
00:51:44chosen
00:51:44he's
00:51:47very
00:51:48skilled
00:51:48at
00:51:48making
00:51:48people
00:51:49think
00:51:49that
00:51:49obviously
00:51:50it was
00:51:50never
00:51:5150-50
00:51:51that
00:51:51was
00:51:52the
00:51:52obvious
00:51:52choice
00:51:54and
00:51:54it
00:51:55stems
00:51:55from
00:51:55his
00:51:55strength
00:51:56of
00:51:56character
00:51:56and
00:51:56his
00:51:56belief
00:51:58in
00:51:58himself
00:51:59is
00:51:59there
00:52:00sometimes
00:52:00there
00:52:00a
00:52:01danger
00:52:01of
00:52:01overconfidence
00:52:06I'm a
00:52:07great
00:52:08believer
00:52:08in
00:52:08confidence
00:52:14Blair
00:52:15now
00:52:15stakes
00:52:16everything
00:52:16on a
00:52:17vote
00:52:17on
00:52:17the
00:52:17war
00:52:17in
00:52:18parliament
00:52:20if
00:52:20he loses
00:52:21he'll
00:52:21resign
00:52:23we had
00:52:23the
00:52:24final
00:52:25meeting
00:52:25of
00:52:26those
00:52:26of
00:52:26us
00:52:26who
00:52:26were
00:52:27strongly
00:52:28opposed
00:52:28to
00:52:28military
00:52:29action
00:52:29in
00:52:29Iraq
00:52:29I said
00:52:30very short
00:52:31very simple
00:52:31Tony
00:52:32why are we
00:52:33doing
00:52:33this
00:52:36Jeremy
00:52:37understand
00:52:38this
00:52:38we're
00:52:39doing
00:52:39this
00:52:39because
00:52:40it's
00:52:40the
00:52:40right
00:52:40thing
00:52:41to
00:52:41do
00:52:41and
00:52:42then
00:52:42left
00:52:42a room
00:52:45I think he
00:52:46invested
00:52:46so much
00:52:47in it
00:52:50there'd
00:52:50been such
00:52:51a buildup
00:52:51of troops
00:52:52in the
00:52:52area
00:52:53he felt
00:52:54at that
00:52:54point
00:52:55he couldn't
00:52:55just
00:52:56back off
00:52:58I think
00:52:58he'd
00:52:59got
00:52:59himself
00:52:59into
00:53:00a messianic
00:53:01trench
00:53:02he was
00:53:03going to
00:53:03do
00:53:03it
00:53:06the
00:53:06stakes
00:53:07could barely
00:53:07be high
00:53:08the prime minister
00:53:09warning his party
00:53:10he will not want
00:53:11to lead it
00:53:11if they do not
00:53:12back the war
00:53:16there was the concern
00:53:17that maybe
00:53:18Blair's government
00:53:18would go down
00:53:21the calls
00:53:22at that point
00:53:23with the president
00:53:24became about
00:53:25whether or not
00:53:26it was worth it
00:53:28for
00:53:29prime minister
00:53:30Blair
00:53:30to take a vote
00:53:32and possibly
00:53:33collapse his government
00:53:35or
00:53:36would there be
00:53:37some other way
00:53:37for Britain
00:53:38to be involved
00:53:42he was
00:53:43very conscious
00:53:44that this
00:53:45could mean
00:53:46that he would
00:53:47no longer be
00:53:48prime minister
00:53:50and that it
00:53:51would mean
00:53:52a huge
00:53:53disruption
00:53:55for our family
00:53:56and so he did
00:53:57sit down
00:53:57the three oldest
00:53:59ones who had
00:53:59been affected
00:54:00by at school
00:54:01and because
00:54:03they're teenagers
00:54:03by now
00:54:04and obviously
00:54:06in our home
00:54:07because they were
00:54:08aware of
00:54:09the debate
00:54:10that was going on
00:54:11that we might
00:54:12all have to move
00:54:12out
00:54:13by the end
00:54:14of the week
00:54:14if you lost
00:54:15the vote
00:54:16the decision
00:54:17you made
00:54:18to join them
00:54:19in war in Iraq
00:54:20did you have
00:54:21any doubts
00:54:22about it
00:54:23I knew it was
00:54:24going to be
00:54:25immensely difficult
00:54:25and
00:54:29that's why
00:54:30I tried
00:54:30to
00:54:32avoid it
00:54:32for a long time
00:54:33even up until
00:54:34the very last minute
00:54:34I was trying
00:54:35to find a way
00:54:36that we could
00:54:37maybe secure
00:54:38the removal
00:54:38of Saddam
00:54:39a different way
00:54:40that you could
00:54:41organize it
00:54:42differently
00:54:42do it differently
00:54:44but in the end
00:54:45it was
00:54:46impossible
00:54:47and so
00:54:47you come to
00:54:48the crunch point
00:54:48and it's this
00:54:49or it's that
00:54:50you've got to
00:54:51decide where you
00:54:51stand
00:54:51and that's
00:54:52where I stood
00:54:55Blair is about
00:54:57to face
00:54:57the biggest
00:54:58parliamentary vote
00:54:59of his life
00:55:03we now come to
00:55:05the main business
00:55:06the Prime Minister
00:55:11this is a tough
00:55:12choice indeed
00:55:12to stand British
00:55:14troops down now
00:55:14and turn back
00:55:16or to hold firm
00:55:17to the course
00:55:18that we have said
00:55:19and I believe
00:55:20passionately
00:55:21we must hold firm
00:55:22to that course
00:55:25confidence is the
00:55:26key to prosperity
00:55:27and insecurity
00:55:28spreads like
00:55:29contagion
00:55:30the key today
00:55:31is stability
00:55:33and order
00:55:34the threat
00:55:35is chaos
00:55:36and disorder
00:55:36I've written
00:55:38quite a lot of novels
00:55:39about Prime Ministers
00:55:40and wartime
00:55:40British Prime Ministers
00:55:41traditionally tried
00:55:43to keep us out
00:55:43of wars
00:55:44this is the only time
00:55:45that I can think of
00:55:47that we've had
00:55:47a very articulate
00:55:49former lawyer
00:55:51advocating
00:55:51a war
00:55:52trying in effect
00:55:54to sell it
00:55:55to the House of Commons
00:55:56his party
00:55:57and the country
00:55:58this is
00:55:59extraordinary
00:56:00and unprecedented
00:56:01and all the talents
00:56:02one observed
00:56:03in Tony Blair
00:56:04that one warmed to
00:56:05and admired
00:56:06were turned into
00:56:08what seems to me
00:56:09to have been
00:56:09a much darker purpose
00:56:11I beg to move
00:56:12the motion
00:56:21Blair wins
00:56:22and in less than
00:56:2336 hours
00:56:24the war will begin
00:56:28Robert Harris
00:56:29told us
00:56:30that Iraq
00:56:32was the only time
00:56:32he could think of
00:56:33that a British Prime Minister
00:56:34had persuaded
00:56:36the House of Commons
00:56:36to go to war
00:56:38what do you think
00:56:39about that
00:56:41well it
00:56:42it hadn't always
00:56:43been the tradition
00:56:43that you put
00:56:44these things
00:56:44to a vote
00:56:45in the House of Commons
00:56:46but we did
00:56:48but it was
00:56:48the essence
00:56:49is that it was
00:56:50a war of choice
00:56:51not of necessity
00:56:52well that's a matter
00:56:53of opinion
00:56:54you know
00:56:55it depends on
00:56:55what you think
00:56:56is necessary
00:56:56at the time
00:56:57I mean all wars
00:56:58are wars of choice
00:57:00in a sense
00:57:01you can say
00:57:02I choose to do
00:57:03I choose not to do
00:57:04but
00:57:04well Churchill
00:57:05didn't have a choice
00:57:08well there would
00:57:09have been people
00:57:09at the time
00:57:10who said he did
00:57:10but unfortunately
00:57:11he made the right choice
00:57:15after he did it
00:57:17you can't fool around
00:57:19with this
00:57:19if you send troops
00:57:20into hard and flight
00:57:21you've got to win
00:57:22and so
00:57:24a lot of people
00:57:25were offended
00:57:26that he
00:57:27seemed so
00:57:29determined
00:57:30during the course
00:57:31of the Iraq conflict
00:57:32but if you're
00:57:33going to do
00:57:34something like that
00:57:35you have to try
00:57:36to win
00:57:45Blair and Bush
00:57:47broadcast directly
00:57:48to the Iraqi people
00:57:50this is George W. Bush
00:57:52at this moment
00:57:53the regime
00:57:54of Saddam Hussein
00:57:55is being removed
00:57:56from power
00:57:57and the future
00:57:58of your country
00:57:59will soon
00:58:00belong to you
00:58:08our enemy
00:58:09is Saddam
00:58:10and his regime
00:58:10not the Iraqi people
00:58:12our forces
00:58:13are friends
00:58:16and liberators
00:58:17of the Iraqi people
00:58:18not your conquerors
00:58:27so it is
00:58:28in the spirit
00:58:29of friendship
00:58:32and goodwill
00:58:34that we now
00:58:35offer our help
00:58:37thank you
00:58:48I was in Cairo
00:58:49and number 10
00:58:50called me
00:58:50and said
00:58:50we need someone
00:58:51on the ground
00:58:51in Baghdad
00:58:54the prime minister
00:58:55is concerned
00:58:56about the level
00:58:57of grip
00:58:57on the ground
00:58:58could you please
00:58:59go there
00:59:01I arrived
00:59:02complete disorder
00:59:10Saddam is swiftly
00:59:12removed from power
00:59:15but in Baghdad
00:59:17crime and looting
00:59:19become widespread
00:59:23revenge attacks
00:59:24between Iraqis
00:59:26are common
00:59:36it was total chaos
00:59:39no real planning
00:59:40had gone into
00:59:41the aftermath
00:59:41the Americans
00:59:43were sitting
00:59:43hunkered down
00:59:44in their tanks
00:59:45and armoured vehicles
00:59:46with reflective sunglasses
00:59:48and heavy helmets on
00:59:49with no engagement
00:59:50with the Iraqi people
00:59:51at all
00:59:52they just assumed
00:59:54that once
00:59:55American forces
00:59:56had toppled Saddam
00:59:57then the Iraqi exiles
00:59:58would come and take over
00:59:59and everything
00:59:59would be hunky dory
01:00:00well it turned out
01:00:01to be completely
01:00:02different from that
01:00:09soon after Saddam
01:00:11is removed from power
01:00:12Blair arrives
01:00:14in the Iraqi city
01:00:15of Basra
01:00:15where British troops
01:00:17are in control
01:00:18the streets of Basra
01:00:19may be filled with rubbish
01:00:21but it's in the water
01:00:22that the real problem lies
01:00:24doctors here
01:00:25have identified
01:00:25the symptoms
01:00:26of cholera
01:00:27in at least
01:00:2717 people
01:00:45I wonder what you are
01:00:47up above
01:00:47there are so high
01:00:48like a diamond
01:00:49in this case
01:01:12obviously Blair wanted
01:01:14to come to Iraq
01:01:14Iraq because he's
01:01:15invested so much
01:01:16in it
01:01:17thank you
01:01:17thank you
01:01:20of course Basra
01:01:20was not Baghdad
01:01:21it was in much better
01:01:23shape than Baghdad was
01:01:32but the military briefings
01:01:33but the military briefings
01:01:33we had at the time
01:01:35were worrying
01:01:36because there was
01:01:37a clear rise
01:01:37of violence
01:01:39even in Basra
01:01:40let alone in the rest
01:01:41of the country
01:01:44we're trying to get
01:01:45some police training
01:01:46going
01:01:46which would take
01:01:47six months
01:01:48to get thousands
01:01:49of policemen
01:01:50back on the streets
01:01:51once again
01:01:51and you get a sense
01:01:53of a rising panic
01:01:54on the side
01:01:56of Tony Blair
01:01:57we couldn't wait
01:01:58six months
01:01:58for thousands
01:01:59of police
01:02:00we needed them
01:02:00there in six days
01:02:03and that made him
01:02:05realise
01:02:05just the sheer scale
01:02:06of the task
01:02:08that he'd taken on
01:02:09and the Americans
01:02:10were making a bit
01:02:12of a hash of
01:02:13the reconstruction
01:02:14was of a scale
01:02:16and a level of difficulty
01:02:17which was simply
01:02:19unprecedented
01:02:21it's clear
01:02:22British troops
01:02:22will be needed
01:02:23in Iraq
01:02:24for the long haul
01:02:27before flying back
01:02:28Blair gives them
01:02:29a speech
01:02:31at one of Saddam's
01:02:32old palaces
01:02:34I know there were
01:02:34a lot of
01:02:36disagreements
01:02:36in the country
01:02:37about the wisdom
01:02:38of my decision
01:02:41I honestly believe
01:02:43when people look back
01:02:44on this conflict
01:02:46they will see this
01:02:47as one of the defining
01:02:48moments of our century
01:02:50and you did it
01:02:51it was your courage
01:02:52and your professionalism
01:02:54that did it
01:02:56and thank you
01:03:07an insurgency
01:03:09against the occupation
01:03:10in Iraq
01:03:11turns into a civil war
01:03:13and lengthy sectarian conflicts
01:03:22hundreds of thousands
01:03:24of Iraqis
01:03:25are killed
01:03:25and 136 British service personnel
01:03:36from the ashes
01:03:37of Al Qaeda
01:03:38rose ISIS
01:03:40and no weapons
01:03:42of mass destruction
01:03:43were ever found
01:03:47a shaky democracy
01:03:48now holds
01:03:49in Iraq
01:03:50and Tony Blair
01:03:51has always publicly denied
01:03:53that his decision
01:03:54to invade Iraq
01:03:55was a mistake
01:03:59I think of going
01:04:00to his grave
01:04:01genuinely thinking
01:04:02it was the right thing
01:04:03to do
01:04:06do you
01:04:08sometimes yes
01:04:08sometimes no
01:04:11why the no
01:04:12you wouldn't be human
01:04:13if you didn't think
01:04:14well that
01:04:15look it
01:04:16it didn't work out
01:04:17as planned
01:04:18you've got to accept that
01:04:23we should be criticised
01:04:25for the mistakes
01:04:26we did make
01:04:26and we did make mistakes
01:04:32we didn't know Iraq
01:04:35we didn't understand
01:04:37the dynamics
01:04:37between Sunnis
01:04:39and Shias in Iraq
01:04:40didn't quite understand
01:04:42the depth
01:04:43of the dysfunctionality
01:04:45in the George Bush
01:04:46presidency
01:04:51it had seriously damaged
01:04:53the reputation
01:04:54of Britain
01:04:56across the region
01:04:58it was a mistake
01:04:59that we went into Iraq
01:05:01in the first place
01:05:09he was personally
01:05:11politically
01:05:11mentally
01:05:12one of the best equipped
01:05:13people we've had
01:05:14as prime minister
01:05:15of the last 70 years
01:05:17but his passion
01:05:19and his commitment
01:05:20to the alliance
01:05:22with the Americans
01:05:23led him down a road
01:05:25in Iraq
01:05:25where basically
01:05:26he overreached
01:05:27we as a country
01:05:28overreached
01:05:29and strategically
01:05:30it has not been a success
01:05:32what advice
01:05:33would you give me
01:05:34as to what question
01:05:35to ask him
01:05:36on Iraq
01:05:38I would focus
01:05:40on telling him
01:05:40the truth
01:05:41because he finds
01:05:42it very hard
01:05:43to dodge
01:05:45the truth
01:05:45and say to him
01:05:46prime minister
01:05:48I know you think
01:05:49you've done well
01:05:50on Iraq
01:05:50and you did the right thing
01:05:51and you had no choice
01:05:52but the evidence
01:05:53is against you
01:05:54do you accept that
01:05:56and he'll say
01:05:57no no
01:05:59Michael
01:05:59there's evidence
01:06:00it's not so
01:06:01there are all sorts
01:06:02of other factors
01:06:02that came into play
01:06:03which I could not
01:06:04possibly have known about
01:06:05and actually
01:06:06on the base
01:06:07of the evidence
01:06:08we had
01:06:08I did the right thing
01:06:09that's the sort
01:06:10of language
01:06:10you'll use
01:06:12you won't get anywhere
01:06:18do you ever feel
01:06:20that in the end
01:06:21Iraq was the biggest
01:06:22mistake of your career
01:06:23look most people
01:06:24would say
01:06:25that Iraq was the biggest
01:06:26mistake of my career
01:06:27of course
01:06:27and it will always be put
01:06:29although
01:06:31history goes on
01:06:32a long time
01:06:33right
01:06:33and I often say
01:06:34to people
01:06:36you know
01:06:36if you actually
01:06:37look at Iraq today
01:06:40would it be better
01:06:41if Saddam and his
01:06:42two sons
01:06:42had still remained
01:06:43in power
01:06:44people sometimes
01:06:45want to have this
01:06:45debate with me
01:06:46over and over again
01:06:48until I finally say
01:06:49no I tell you what
01:06:50I shouldn't have
01:06:51gone with America
01:06:51I should have taken
01:06:52a different decision
01:06:53and I'm really sorry
01:06:54right
01:06:55I can be sorry
01:06:56about lots of things
01:06:57in relation to it
01:06:58but there's no point
01:06:59in carrying on
01:07:00trying to
01:07:01get me to see
01:07:04you know
01:07:04a different point of view
01:07:05from the one I had
01:07:06at the time
01:07:07or
01:07:08for me to accept
01:07:09this was the only
01:07:10thing we did
01:07:13be honest with me
01:07:14what would you say
01:07:14are your flaws
01:07:15or were your flaws
01:07:16as prime minister
01:07:19you know
01:07:19I sometimes think
01:07:20that's for other
01:07:21people to judge
01:07:21really
01:07:22I mean
01:07:22I
01:07:25history will judge
01:07:26you
01:07:27but
01:07:29sometime
01:07:29in the
01:07:31deep of night
01:07:32you might think
01:07:34about such things
01:07:34you might
01:07:35but on the other hand
01:07:36you might decide
01:07:37that it's
01:07:37what you think about
01:07:39deep in the middle
01:07:40of the night
01:07:40it's not what you want
01:07:41to start declaring
01:07:42on camera
01:07:43which would be
01:07:45very wise
01:07:46for a politician
01:07:46why not
01:07:47you're no longer
01:07:48a politician
01:07:50you're always a politician
01:07:52if people want
01:07:52the honest truth
01:07:55don't ask a political leader
01:07:56to go and make a judgment
01:07:57about themselves
01:07:58because you're going to
01:07:58get a version of it
01:07:59okay
01:07:59I mean
01:08:00let's just be honest
01:08:01about it
01:08:01whereas
01:08:02frankly
01:08:04it's going to be
01:08:05a political answer
01:08:07I'm being honest
01:08:08right
01:08:08that's what it's going to be
01:08:10so
01:08:11make your own judgment
01:08:22how did his legacy
01:08:24live on beyond politics
01:08:25the Tony Blair story
01:08:26concludes tomorrow 9pm
01:08:27or you can stream
01:08:28all episodes
01:08:29right now
01:08:29starting Monday night
01:08:31at 9
01:08:31exposing the rotting stench
01:08:33that flooded our waterways
01:08:34David Thewlis and Jason Watkins
01:08:36uncover the sick truth
01:08:37behind Britain's sewage scandal
01:08:38and dirty business
01:08:39a new factual drama
01:08:41Fukushima
01:08:42Days That Shocked the World
01:08:43is next
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