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00:01An emotional moment at the Winter Olympics is drawing attention far beyond the competition
00:06itself.
00:07A post-race interview turned into an episode of true confessions for one medalist.
00:12Norwegian bi-athlete Sterle Holm Ligrid had just won a bronze medal when he tearfully
00:17admitted on live television that he cheated on his girlfriend three months ago.
00:22Today I made the choice to tell the world what I did.
00:28But he wasn't the only Olympian to make an ill-timed confession.
00:33Alright guys, it's our final heat so let's go for it!
00:36Push!
00:38By the way, I should tell you, I've been having sex with all your wives!
00:48I gotta say, you guys are taking this really well!
01:13And now, live on tape from the Ed Sullivan Theatre in New York City, it's Stephen Colbert!
01:46Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to The Late Show.
01:49I'm your host, Stephen Colbert.
01:50Ladies and gentlemen, welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to The Late Show.
01:56Happy Lunar New Year, everybody!
02:01Today marks the first day of the year of the fire horse.
02:06Or, as my graphics department insists on calling it, fire horse!
02:14They made the graphic weeks ago, and if we don't use it, it would just break their little
02:19hearts.
02:20But it's not just Lunar New Year.
02:22Today is packed with holidays.
02:24It's also Mardi Gras, the beginning of Ramadan, and at midnight Lent.
02:29Rarely, rarely do so many holidays converge, let alone on Taco Tuesday.
02:37Which is why, which is why tonight, ladies and gentlemen, I am declaring the first official
02:41Mardi Gras Mandana Taco Lent Day.
02:45Mardi Gras Mandana Taco Lent Day!
02:50I forgot about this part.
02:52Is this new?
02:55I was not aware of the second graphic.
02:59So what can we look forward to this year of the fire horse?
03:02According to one expert, be on the lookout for heightened tensions in already heated relationships.
03:09You know what that means?
03:11More hockey players are gonna bang.
03:20By the way, when does that start in the Olympics?
03:22Because I've been watching them so far, it's all just hockey.
03:27We're waiting for the high sticking.
03:28Now, last night, the Chinese government broadcast their official Spring Festival Gala
03:34and unveiled some brand new humanoid robots.
03:50Wow.
03:51Well, after seeing that, I just want to make a quick announcement.
03:56Robots, I surrender.
03:59If you spare me in your technological uprising, I will proudly serve as your bio-batteries.
04:05I just want a good goo pod and a subscription to BritBox.
04:10It could be, I'm hearing...
04:13How's it sound?
04:15Okay.
04:16Could be a tough year of the fire horse, because according to a new Gallup poll,
04:20Americans are less hopeful than ever, and optimism is at a record low, with 59% of respondents
04:27saying that they were expecting a high quality of life in five years.
04:30Okay, over 50% sounds good, but for years now, the optimism number held steady at 69%.
04:38Yeah.
04:39Back then, the future looked nice.
04:45Gallup also...
04:46I don't know what that means.
04:47I don't really know what that means.
04:48Gallup also revealed that the president's approval rating has dropped to a new second-term low of 36%.
04:5936%.
05:01It's hard...
05:02It's hard to imagine that could get much lower, but I'm optimistic.
05:08One reason...
05:09One reason...
05:11One reason his approval numbers might be cratering is Trump's pathological need to slap his name in gold on everything.
05:17And reportedly, he's got a new scheme.
05:20Last year, Trump suspended funding for a $16 billion rail tunnel between New York City and New Jersey.
05:26How dare you?
05:30You gotta be quicker with the booze, baby.
05:32Now...
05:34How dare you?
05:38Nobody gets a mulligan.
05:41The good people of this city could have finally enjoyed a new tunnel for about 30 seconds until it smelled
05:46like a thousand rats had an orgy and died in there.
05:51Reportedly...
05:51You okay?
05:52Reportedly...
05:54In a recent meeting with Chuck Schumer, Trump suggested that he would release the funds in exchange for renaming Washington
06:00-Dulles International Airport and Penn Station after him.
06:05Uh-uh.
06:06New Yorkers will not be forced to commute to Trump Station.
06:10But I do have a counteroffer.
06:12Mr. President, how would you feel about the Trump Port Authority Bus Terminal Men's Room Stall No. 3?
06:23The one...
06:25The one without the door or toilet.
06:29But there are some tributes to Trump that he doesn't want.
06:32You see, every president gets an official portrait when they leave office.
06:35Bill Clinton had this mosaic-style painting by Chuck Close, and Barack Obama's official portrait was painted by Kehinde Wiley,
06:44based on his earlier work, Homer disappearing into hedges.
06:49Trump... Trump already got one.
06:50He got one, right?
06:51He got one at the end of his first term, which was never unveiled.
06:54And reportedly, Trump now wants the Smithsonian to create a different official portrait of him.
07:00You know what?
07:01No, no.
07:01It could be easy.
07:02He could just do it himself.
07:04Just press his face against the canvas, and you'd get the bronzer of Turin.
07:17According to a White House spokesperson, President Trump looks forward to seeing the completion of a portrait
07:21that will encapsulate both his 45th and 47th presidential terms.
07:26And is this true?
07:27I'm told we have a preview of that portrait.
07:32That's good.
07:33That's good.
07:36You like it?
07:37Like Alan?
07:38Uh, that portrait's not really gonna matter, because there's only one thing Trump's ever gonna be remembered for, and that's
07:44the Epstein files.
07:49Yesterday, he was asked about them on Air Force One, and he made this bizarre declaration.
07:54I have nothing to hide.
07:55I've been exonerated.
07:57I have nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein.
07:59They went in hoping that they'd find it and found just the opposite.
08:02I've been totally exonerated.
08:04Apparently, he does not know the meaning of the word exonerated.
08:08Or totally.
08:11Or I've been.
08:14One of the things that's so frustrating about this is that there are so few consequences for Epstein's pervert pals.
08:21At least over here in America.
08:23Because while folks in Trump's circle are just skating away, it's completely different across the pond.
08:28For instance, the Epstein fallout has hit the British royal family.
08:32Andrew was stripped of his Prince title, and was forced to move out of the Royal Lodge, and now...
08:41And now has to live at Wood Farm on the Sandringham Estate.
08:45You hear that, pedophiles?
08:47You keep it up.
08:48You get a five-bedroom cottage max.
08:52And no more than ten show horses.
08:55He's not alone.
08:56The scandal's also taken down former British ambassador to the United States, Peter Mendelsohn.
09:00Former Duchess, Sarah Ferguson.
09:02Former Prime Minister's Chief of Staff, Morgan McSweeney.
09:05The Right Honorable Wallace of Gromit.
09:08And former Chancellor of the Exchequer, Ebenezer Eelmeet Jumbleteeth.
09:13But, good man.
09:15But here in America, we're not seeing any politicians going down.
09:19Just academics and business folks like Tom Pritzker, who announced his retirement as executive chair of Hyatt Hotels after it
09:26came out that he helped arrange reservations for a woman traveling through Asia,
09:30who was reportedly a girlfriend of Epstein's.
09:33When Pritzker asked what she was doing, she wrote,
09:35Going to try to find a new girlfriend for Jeffrey.
09:38Pritzker replied,
09:40Smiley face, may the force be with you.
09:43Come on, man. Don't pull Star Wars into this.
09:47Although, I do want to point out Alan Dershowitz insists he was given a massage by an adult Yoda.
09:56Oh!
09:57That sound means it's time for a Kristi Noem update.
10:01Allegedly...
10:05It worked.
10:07I got something.
10:08I got a little something here.
10:11Allegedly, allegedly now, one of the worst-kept alleged secrets in Washington is the alleged affair between the alleged Kristi
10:19Noem and her subordinate, Corey Lewandowski,
10:22or as they're known by their celebrity couple name, Krusty Horny Houski.
10:27A lot.
10:28Does that work?
10:29That works.
10:30A lot of this rumored affair is rumored to be taking place on government planes.
10:35Well, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal, Noem had to switch planes due to mechanical issues.
10:41And afterwards, Lewandowski fired the pilot because Noem's blanket was left behind on the first plane.
10:48And I'm told we have footage of Noem's reaction when she learned the news.
10:53My blanket! My blue blanket! Give me my blue blanket!
10:58She looks good. She looks really good.
11:02A little freshen up.
11:07Normally, that sort of abuse of power would raise some eyebrows, but Noem had hers permanently raised years ago.
11:13Also, also, and this part is just fun. Joe, this part's just fun.
11:17That pilot, they had to rehire him upon realizing that there was no one else to fly the party home.
11:32Do you really want to get on a plane being flown by the guy you just fired?
11:38For the stupidest possible reason?
11:41Uh, folks, this is your captain speaking.
11:44I have turned off the fasten seatbelt sign, so feel free to walk around the cabin with a scalding hot
11:48drink and barrel roll.
11:59Another pilot?
12:01In even more titillating news, we are learning about the existence of erotic poetry written by California gubernatorial candidate Eric
12:10Swalwell.
12:11It explains his campaign slogan, Swalwell 2026, my loins burn to represent you.
12:24We haven't had political erotic crossovers like this since Reagan said this.
12:29Mr. Gorbachev, tear down these pants.
12:37The Gipper.
12:41Now, I want to make clear none of this erotic poetry is recent.
12:45Swalwell published these poems when he was a 19-year-old college student writing for a literary magazine called The
12:51Lyricist and describes two partners meeting atop a hotel before having formless and magnificent sex.
13:04Formless?
13:05Congressman, it's possible you had sex with a ghost.
13:09Let me ask you this.
13:10Let me ask you this.
13:11Did they help you throw a pot at any point?
13:15The poem continues.
13:17While I screamed, she bent her lips to mine, kissing till veins imploded and exploded.
13:26I have been kissing wrong.
13:29We've got a great show for you tonight.
13:31My guests are Kate from Hollins and New York Times, best-selling author Walter Isaacson.
13:36They're going to come back.
13:38More about the FCC.
13:40Those guys are so silly.
14:08Give it up for Louis Cato and the big, big joy machine.
14:16I love it.
14:17I love the joy machine.
14:19I need it.
14:21I need that today.
14:22All right, folks, there's another big story today that I never got to over in my monologue, and it's me.
14:32Hang in there, buddy.
14:35You see, here's what happened.
14:38Here's what happened, folks.
14:39Last night, I talked to Texas Senate candidate James Tallarico, but it wasn't on the show.
14:46It wasn't on the show.
14:47We put the interview on our YouTube channel because of something called the Equal Time Rule,
14:51and that rule says that if a show on broadcast television has a qualified candidate on during an election,
14:58they have to offer equal time to all that candidate's opponents.
15:01It's a pretty famous rule, but here's the thing.
15:03There has long been a very famous exception to that rule, and that exception included talk shows, interviews with politicians.
15:11We looked, and we can't find one example of this rule being enforced for any talk show interview,
15:18not only for my entire late-night career, but for anyone's late-night career going back to the 1960s.
15:25But on January 21st, we heard from FCC Chairman Brendan Carr, seen here testifying how to purple a nurple.
15:34Uh, Carr, you see, he issued a letter saying he was thinking about getting rid of that talk show exception.
15:42He had not gotten rid of it yet, but CBS generously did it for him and told me...
15:50No, told me unilaterally that I had to abide by the Equal Time Rules,
15:55something I have never been asked to do for an interview in the 21 years of this job.
16:00Now, that decision, I want to be clear, is their right.
16:03Just like I have the right to talk about their decision on air.
16:07Last night...
16:09All right?
16:13Last night, I did, and people who interview politicians for a living noticed.
16:18Stephen Colbert making headlines.
16:20Stephen Colbert.
16:21Stephen Colbert.
16:22Stephen Colbert.
16:23Stephen Colbert.
16:24Wow!
16:25Everyone's talking about this Stephen Colbert fella.
16:31You know what I think?
16:33You know what I think?
16:40Somebody that popular should get their own talk show.
16:43Anyway, anyway, I said my piece last night, we made some jokes, it's what they pay me for,
16:47and I was ready to let the whole thing go.
16:50Until a few hours ago, when my group chat blowed up,
16:54because without ever talking to me, the corporation put out this press release, this statement.
17:01Now, this is a surprisingly small piece of paper, considering how many butts it's trying to cover.
17:07In it, they say,
17:08The Late Show was not prohibited by CBS from broadcasting the interview with Representative James Tallarico.
17:14The show was provided legal guidance that the broadcast could trigger the FCC equal time rule for two other candidates,
17:20including Representative Jasmine Crockett,
17:22and presented options for how the equal time for other candidates could be fulfilled.
17:26The Late Show decided to present the interview through its YouTube channel with on-air promotion on the broadcast,
17:32rather than potentially providing the equal time options.
17:34Now, clearly, this statement was written by, and I'm guessing, four lawyers.
17:41Now, I'm not a lawyer, and I don't want to tell them how to do their jobs.
17:45But since they seem intent on telling me how to do mine, here we go.
17:50Fellas.
17:52Fellas.
17:56I am well aware that we can book other guests.
18:01I didn't need to be presented with that option.
18:04I've had Jasmine Crockett on my show twice.
18:07I could prove that to you.
18:10I could prove that to you, but the network won't let me show you her picture without including her opponents.
18:15So I'll just, I'll have to show you this picture of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein instead.
18:21They made me do it.
18:23I didn't want to.
18:28So, so, so we obeyed our network and put the interview on YouTube, where it's gotten millions of views.
18:39And, and I, I can see why.
18:42Tallarico is an interesting guy.
18:44I don't know what, if he should be the senator, but it was a good discussion.
18:47I wish we could have put it on the show, where no one would have watched it.
18:52But, but, but here's where I do want to tell the lawyers how to do their jobs.
18:57They know damn well that every word of my script last night was approved by CBS's lawyers,
19:03who, for the record, approve every script that goes on the air,
19:06whether it's about equal time or this image of frogs having sex.
19:13That's a true story.
19:16But for another time.
19:19Very specifically, and this is never, in fact, between the monologue I did last night
19:24and before I did the second act talking about this issue, I had to go backstage.
19:29I got called backstage to get more notes from these lawyers, something that had never, ever happened before.
19:36And they told us the language they wanted me to use to describe that equal time exception.
19:41And I used that language.
19:44So, I don't know what this is about.
19:48For the record, I'm not even mad.
19:50I really don't want an adversarial relationship with a network.
19:53I've never had one.
19:54As I said last night in my interview with James Tallarico, check it out.
19:58It's on YouTube.
19:59It's pretty good.
20:03I said, I said to him, I am grateful to have worked for CBS for the last 11 years
20:09and worked with George and David and Amy and everyone at the network,
20:12the Sheldons of every age, the Matlocks of every sex.
20:17I'm just so surprised that this giant global corporation would not stand up to these bullies.
20:24Come on, you're Paramount.
20:26No.
20:28No.
20:30No.
20:31You're more than that.
20:33You're Paramount Plus.
20:39Plus what?
20:40I guess we're all going to find out pretty soon.
20:43And for the lawyers to release this, without even talking to me, is really surprising.
20:50I don't even know what to do with this crap.
20:53Hold on.
21:09We'll be right back with Caitlin Collins.
21:11We'll be right back with Caitlin Collins.
21:26Hi, friends.
21:28Hi, friends.
21:32Welcome back.
21:35Ladies and gentlemen, my first guest is the chief White House correspondent
21:38and anchor of The Source with Caitlin Collins on CNN.
21:42Please welcome back to The Late Show, Caitlin Collins.
22:04We're great.
22:05How are you?
22:06Nice and calm around here.
22:08It is nice and calm around here.
22:10Nothing going on.
22:10It sounds like covering a day at the White House.
22:12Like, you never know what's going to happen next.
22:15No.
22:15No, I want to get into that in just a moment.
22:17But this isn't the first time we've spoken.
22:20But since the last time we spoke, you're now doing double duty at CNN.
22:24Yeah, I got a second job since I was last here.
22:26You are chief White House correspondent and anchor of The Source at the same time.
22:33Yes.
22:34What's it like covering the White House these days?
22:37Because you did the first Trump term.
22:39Then you had sort of the interim period of the Biden years.
22:43Yeah.
22:44There's been a lot of turnover.
22:45The White House has done a lot of turnover in who the press corps is in the White House.
22:48And I'm just curious, what's the vibe like for an average press conference there?
22:52It's so different and so similar at the same time.
22:54And because, I mean, I just covering the Trump White House was the first White House I had ever covered.
22:59And so a lot of people had been there for decades.
23:03And, you know, they were kind of used to how different presidencies operated, Republican or Democrat.
23:08And, like, the first Trump White House was, like, it totally blew all of that up.
23:11And so it's familiar to that still in the same.
23:14But it's like, it is like a second season of a television show.
23:16Like, it's like different characters and different plot lines.
23:19Except it's real and it's the president and it's the White House.
23:22And so, as a reporter, I love it.
23:26I love my job.
23:26I love covering the administration.
23:28I really enjoy doing that and being there every single day.
23:32And it's meaningful to me to be back at the White House because I love the White House press corps.
23:35I love being there.
23:37I think it's really meaningful.
23:38And so, I don't have any free time.
23:41But other than that, it's great.
23:43Free time when you're older.
23:44Now, during Trump's first administration, one of the sort of positions that CNN marked out for themselves was just acknowledging
23:54reality.
23:55Because there was this part of the expression.
23:57It was, you know, part of the expression there was this epistemological crisis in government where what is real, what
24:02is not, can things be known?
24:04And there were things like those this is an Apple ads that CNN ran, which is like this is an
24:09Apple.
24:09People might say it's a banana, but it's an Apple.
24:12How are things over there?
24:13What's the attitude over there at CNN about the renewed challenge of keeping your feet on the dry land of
24:20what really is?
24:22Well, and those ads came out when we were in an era of alternative facts.
24:26And, you know, people were adjusting to statements like that coming from some of the highest ranking officials in the
24:31White House, Kellyanne Conway, when she said that.
24:33And I think the mission is still the same, though, which is...
24:36Because the alternative facts haven't changed, have they?
24:38We're still...
24:39They're still just facts and...
24:41Alternative facts and we get a lot of them.
24:43But there aren't alternative facts.
24:43There's facts and that's it.
24:45Well, that's a fact.
24:51So I think the mission, though, is the same.
24:53I think it's holding people, powerful people, taxpayer-funded officials to account.
24:58It's asking tough questions.
24:59It's covering the stories.
25:01It's making people uncomfortable.
25:03And I think that that should happen, whether it's a Republican in the White House or a Democrat.
25:08I think anyone who's in that position should face tough questions.
25:11And so I think the mission is the same for my colleagues and for myself, certainly.
25:15Absolutely.
25:15But it's not even tough questions sometimes.
25:17It's just a perfectly reasonable question.
25:19For instance, two weeks ago, there was a moment between you and the president.
25:25We got a little coverage.
25:28We have a clip.
25:30What would you say to the survivors who feel like they haven't gotten justice?
25:33You are the worst reporter.
25:34No one to see.
25:35CNN has no ratings because of people like you.
25:38You know, she's a young woman.
25:39I don't think I've ever seen you smile.
25:41I've known you for 10 years.
25:43I don't think I've ever seen a smile on my face.
25:45Well, I'm asking you about survivors in different states.
25:47You know why you're not smiling?
25:48Because you know you're not telling the truth.
25:50And you're a very dishonest organization.
25:53And they should be ashamed of you.
25:56Now, you have covered...
25:59You've covered the president for 10 years, as you said.
26:02So you expect what he's like.
26:04You know, did that one surprise you?
26:06I don't think it surprised me in the moment of the attack.
26:09I mean, the president has called me a lot of names.
26:10He's gone after me and tried to deflect from the questions that we're asking.
26:15But in that moment, you know, he is someone who is often politically savvy or tied in with what his
26:21base wants.
26:22In that moment, I was thinking, you know, if he had said that in response to a different question,
26:27I think it would have had a different reaction.
26:29I mean, I don't think any woman...
26:30I think a lot of women can identify with that moment and that feeling.
26:32But I think it was actually the question that is what generated so many headlines out of that.
26:37Because my question was about sexual assault survivors.
26:40And it wasn't even accusatory of the president.
26:42It was what these women, many of whom I've interviewed and had on my show, often have said to me.
26:47And I don't think it's a controversial opinion that you shouldn't smile when you're asking questions about a sex trafficker
26:53and sexual assault pictures.
26:56That's reasonable.
26:57That's reasonable.
26:59But why?
27:00I'm just curious.
27:01I will say, though, that ever since that, everyone has been sending me pictures of me smiling.
27:06Like, if it's selfies I've taken with someone or, like, my dad was sending me pictures of me smiling as,
27:11like, a 10-year-old.
27:12Like, it's like I've been inundated with photos showing that I do indeed smile when it's appropriate.
27:18Yes.
27:18Lovely smile.
27:19Lovely smile.
27:20Back in November, the president suggested that FCC chair Brennan Carr look into ABC's broadcasting license after Mary Bruce asked
27:32questions that he didn't like.
27:34Yeah.
27:34And as a journalist, what do you make of Trump's apparent weaponizing of the FCC?
27:40I think it's something that the president, we didn't see him do as much in his first term.
27:44It's a way that he's wielding his power so differently in the second term.
27:48Yeah, I think the sort of the chains are off.
27:50Yeah, ever since Brennan Carr, I mean, was in this position, I don't think anything that he's done is really
27:54that surprising if you've been covering Trump and paying attention.
27:57And so I think, you know, the question is how far he goes on his threats.
28:00Does he follow through?
28:01Does he even need to follow through?
28:03Does just making the threat in and of itself already cause the action?
28:07For instance, if you threaten the network and then they might just do it for you without actually, you know,
28:12making a ruling of any kind.
28:13And I think it's actually a really, a really slippery slope because I think that you've seen some people on
28:21the right cheering this and saying, well, that's what we want Brennan Carr to do.
28:24I think that they don't want a Democratic administration saying that right wing talk radio must give equal time to,
28:30to Democrats or to see that moment.
28:32And so for me personally on our show, I, I have Democrats and Republicans on.
28:36I want to know what everyone's saying.
28:37I want my viewers to know what the debate is that's in Washington.
28:41I don't think anyone wants the federal government telling people who they should book on their show and who the
28:46guests should be on their show.
28:51Good luck.
28:53You have to take a quick break.
28:54We're right back with more Kaitlin Collins, everybody.
28:56Stick around.
29:04Hey, everybody.
29:06It's CNN's Kaitlin Collins.
29:11Why do you think the American public is not as ready to turn the page on the Epstein files as
29:18the president suggests they should be?
29:21And the press secretary said last week during a briefing that the country, it's time to move on.
29:26That is not what we hear from people.
29:28And I think it's a bipartisan issue.
29:30It's Republicans and Democrats alike who want answers.
29:33And really what they want is accountability here.
29:40Can I do a little follow-up on that for just a second here?
29:45Is that, isn't it weird that the Justice Department has all this information and yet they're saying that individual people
29:54out there can pour through it and they can point out things to the Justice Department if they would like,
30:01but they've got all the information.
30:03And yet they're not prosecuting anyone.
30:06It's almost they're saying, press, you do our job.
30:08Yeah.
30:08Or, and lawyers are going through this, obviously, and lawmakers can go and look at the documents themselves.
30:14But we had this surreal moment on my show last week where Thomas Massey, one of the Republicans from Kentucky
30:19who wrote this bill.
30:20It's a pretty short law that you can go and read that the president was obviously had his hand forced
30:24to sign.
30:25He found a name that was redacted that he looked up where he could see where it was unredacted and
30:30he said it shouldn't be redacted.
30:32On our show, about 20 minutes before he came on, he had tweeted it out and Todd Blanche, the deputy
30:36attorney general, then quote tweeted it and unredacted the name.
30:40And Thomas Massey found out in real time on this show and he pointed it out to the attorney general
30:45last week and she was saying, well, we corrected it.
30:47But his point was, had he not pointed it out, would it have been unredacted in the point?
30:53And I think your point is great that it's not just Republicans.
30:56This is not a political issue.
30:57They've tried to make to say that anyone who was in that position of power or abused these women and
31:03underage girls, many of them at the time, that they should be brought to account and held to have justice
31:09for these.
31:10It seems like the lowest bar we can cross as a society is to hold people who traffic children to
31:16account, no matter what their political persuasion is.
31:18Yeah, it's not a controversial position.
31:21No.
31:21And I think, you know, we've interviewed so many of these women and they're powerful and this has shaped their
31:28lives.
31:28I mean, a lot of them are adults now, but many of them were so incredibly young when this happened.
31:32And there was one survivor who said, gave this quote, I believe, to the Miami Herald and said that Jeffrey
31:38Epstein went after women,
31:40that he thought no one would care about and that no one would believe.
31:42And she said, and he was right, and it worked.
31:44And to see these women who for decades were ignored by the FBI or attorneys or prosecutors finally feel that
31:52they have some semblance of that, I think is really powerful.
31:56I mean, these women, all they want is accountability.
31:57It's not political for them.
31:59It's personal.
32:02Caitlin, thanks so much for being here.
32:03The Source with Caitlin Collins airs weeknights on CNN.
32:08It's Caitlin Collins, everybody.
32:10We'll be right back with New York Times bestselling author Walter Isaacson.
32:25Welcome back, everybody.
32:28Ladies and gentlemen, my next guest is the New York Times bestselling author known for his biographies of figures like
32:36Leonardo da Vinci, Steve Jobs, and Einstein.
32:39His new book is The Greatest Sentence Ever Written.
32:42Please welcome back to The Late Show, Walter Isaacson.
32:58All right, the latest book right here, The Greatest Sentence Ever Written.
33:05Hey.
33:07Is it the greatest book you've ever written?
33:09It's the shortest by far.
33:10It's a short, exactly.
33:11I was like, it must be pretty pithy.
33:13It's only 67 pages.
33:14But, you know, that's the exact same length as Thomas Paine, who wrote the pamphlet that 250 years ago started
33:21the revolution.
33:21I figure if he could do it in that length, I should be able to.
33:24Oh, yes.
33:24At least defend the revolution.
33:26Aim high.
33:27Aim high.
33:28It's a sonnet of liberty.
33:30I'll bite.
33:30What's the greatest sentence?
33:32We hold these truths to be self-evident.
33:34That all men are created equal.
33:36And God by the equator was certain inalienable rights.
33:38Among them, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
33:41You know, we know it by heart, but we've never really parsed it and really thought deeply about it.
33:46I figure for our 250th anniversary, we should do so.
33:49Okay, well, let me parse a few things there.
33:51It's, you know, a lot of people think of it, are undoubted by the creator with certain inalienable rights, but
33:57it's unalienable rights.
33:58Well, you know, Jefferson, in the first draft, which is like here, you can see the first draft.
34:03Yeah, we've got a larger copy of it.
34:04He writes inalienable.
34:05There it is.
34:06There it is.
34:07And John Adams, who's editing it, transcribes it to unalienable.
34:11I like inalienable better.
34:12That's the way it is on the Jefferson Memorial.
34:14Do they mean the same thing?
34:15Yeah.
34:16So it's a...
34:17Yeah, I mean...
34:19So it's a typo?
34:20I spent about a week trying to figure out what's the difference, and then I realized it's a transcription error.
34:25You know, they made mistakes.
34:27Flammable and flammable.
34:28Exactly.
34:29Unflammable.
34:31Some people, and I don't know why, but there are some people I've heard recently saying,
34:35well, no, I mean, the Declaration is poetry, but it's not a founding document for us.
34:40They look solely to the Constitution for that.
34:43But if that's the case, and I know arguments have been made about that recently,
34:46as there have been debates about the equality of humans,
34:51if it's not our founding document, then why is this our 250th anniversary?
34:55It's our mission statement, and it's a mission statement that begins by saying,
34:59we're going to become a new country.
35:00And then, even though, as you point out, the mission statement wasn't true at the time,
35:05we were all worn equal, but it becomes a forcing mechanism for 250 years,
35:11in which everybody from, you know, four score and seven years later,
35:15Lincoln invokes it when he's burying the people at Gettysburg who pushed to make that statement more true.
35:21Dr. King invokes it.
35:22John Kennedy invokes it.
35:24So it tells us what we're trying to be.
35:26Um, so, as you say, uh, it, the, the, the, the document itself has inherent in some conflicts,
35:35because, uh, five men drafted this?
35:38Mm-hmm.
35:39Okay, three of those five men were owners of enslaved people.
35:43Right.
35:44Um, is, did, was there any attempt to reconcile that contradiction by the men and among those men
35:50as they were writing this?
35:51Absolutely.
35:52They understood the agony of it.
35:54Uh, Franklin, who had once enslaved two people in his print shop, realized early on how bad it was.
36:01So he's become the president for the Society of the Abolition of Slavery.
36:05And if you look at our history, it's, that's the original, you know, sin that we have to, uh, try
36:12to overcome.
36:14Um, was anyone, was, how did Jefferson feel about that?
36:18Well, you know, Jefferson put...
36:20He famously, you know, had slaves.
36:21400 enslaved people working there.
36:24I did not realize that.
36:24And he did not, you know, when they're all meeting in this room, there's a little picture of it in
36:29the book.
36:30It's Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams on that committee.
36:33And they're writing it.
36:35But there's a fourth person in that room.
36:37And that is Thomas Hemmings, who was a 19-year-old enslaved valet of Jefferson, whose younger sister would end
36:45up being the mother of some of Jefferson's children.
36:48And Jefferson writes a lot of lines denouncing slavery.
36:52So there's this inherent conflict.
36:54Wait a second.
36:55The guy who's got 400 enslaved people down at Monticello...
36:58He's blaming the king for having imposed slavery on us.
37:02And then they edit it out.
37:04That's why this sentence has so much you can wrestle with.
37:08Okay.
37:08Current lawmakers can't agree on anything.
37:11Right.
37:11Okay.
37:12We're in a partial government shutdown right now.
37:15And it can't have been easy for our founding fathers to find consensus, even among just five of them.
37:21How did they end up coming to this agreement?
37:24Well, first of all, they go through five drafts.
37:27And they're beautiful as you see each of the edits.
37:30I'll show this again.
37:31This is like, this is an earlier edit.
37:33Yeah, that's Jefferson's first draft of the Declaration.
37:38And when Franklin, when they get to the Constitutional Convention, he says, look, you know, compromisers may not make great
37:46heroes, but they do make great democracies.
37:49We're going to have to shave a little from one side, take from the other.
37:51We've lost that art of balance and compromise in our country today.
37:55What's the biggest change that went from, like, draft one to the final draft?
38:00You know, one of the changes I like is, in the very first draft, Jefferson writes, we hold these truths
38:07to be sacred.
38:08And you can see Franklin's printer's pen crossing it out and putting self-evident.
38:13But then the sentence goes on, they're endowed with inalienable rights.
38:17You see, John Adams put in, endowed by their creator with inalienable rights.
38:22So even in the editing of the first half of that sentence, you see them trying to balance the role
38:28of divine providence and the role of rationality in giving us our rights.
38:33Well, you've described this as a birthday present to our country, something for us to meditate on as we think
38:40about the last 250 years.
38:42And as you look forward to what is hopefully the next 250 years of America, what is your birthday wish
38:47for our country?
38:48You know, I would hope that we'd go back to the founding documents.
38:51I'm sure the FCC is going to make you give equal time to John Meacham.
38:56But, you know, Meacham, too.
38:57I just had one, actually.
38:58Yeah.
38:59I just had one.
39:00That's why I had to have you on.
39:01Right.
39:02No, no, we believe in the fairness doctrine of having, you know, equal time for historians, if not for politicians.
39:09But I would hope that all of us try to go back to these founding documents and say, here's the
39:14common ground we can agree with.
39:16We're so polarized now that we forget we have common values and common ground.
39:20I remember, you're not quite old enough, but 50 years ago, after Watergate, after Vietnam, after the riots, after the
39:28assassinations, we had the bicentennial.
39:31And even your networks used to have bicentennial moments.
39:35And they rang the bell.
39:36And we came together with the tall ships and everything.
39:39I hope this year we can heal some of the wounds and try to come together to rededicate ourselves to
39:45the next 250.
39:47I share you in that hope.
39:50Walter, thank you so much.
39:52The greatest sentence ever written is available now.
39:56Walter Isaacson, everybody.
40:12That's it for The Late Show, everybody.
40:13Tune in tomorrow.
40:14My guests will be Senator John Ossoff and Kyle McLaughlin.
40:18Good night.
40:19Good night.
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