- il y a 2 jours
Once Upon An Algorithm: AI and Hollywood
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00:01Hi, everyone.
00:03Hi, everyone.
00:04Jeffrey and Michael, thank you for joining me on stage
00:06on a sunny Parisian day.
00:09I'd like to start by asking about what this moment
00:13compared to the past for entertainment,
00:16do you feel like what we're seeing with generative AI
00:18has been experienced before in Hollywood by content creators?
00:23And Jeffrey, I'd like to start with you.
00:24Well, I would say there have been other evolutionary,
00:31revolutionary moments driven by tech before.
00:36I do think this one is by a magnitude greater
00:41in terms of its impact.
00:45You know, I personally lived through the transition
00:49from hand-drawn animation to computer animation.
00:51I think many of the fears, anxieties that people had then
00:59and now are similar,
01:01even though the circumstances are quite different.
01:05But the thing that I remind people about
01:08is that CGI didn't eliminate jobs.
01:14It changed jobs.
01:17And in fact, you can look at here we are 25 years later.
01:21There's never been more people working in CGI animation than before.
01:27And so I tend to be much, much more optimistic
01:33about what the opportunities are that are coming.
01:37But this is a real disruptive moment.
01:42Michael, some people compare what's happening with generative AI
01:46to the introduction of sound into film.
01:49Is it going to be like the CGI moment for animation
01:52where maybe we see even more animators?
01:54Or do you think it's likely to be a more somber picture?
01:57You know, many of you this week heard from Jensen Huang,
02:02who was here in Paris from NVIDIA.
02:05And what he has said, which I subscribe to,
02:09and he did this with a wave of a hand once
02:11where I saw him speaking,
02:12when he looked out at the audience, he said,
02:14those of you in this audience,
02:16your jobs won't be replaced by AI,
02:20but your jobs will be replaced by somebody who understands AI.
02:23The likelihood is that person's job will be replaced by AI.
02:28So we're kicking the can a little,
02:30but I guess the message there is,
02:32how do you ensure your safety for now?
02:36Better understand how to utilize it.
02:39And that's critical.
02:41So education becomes the key.
02:43But do I see the shrinking labor force?
02:47I do.
02:48Jeffrey, longtime Hollywood veteran,
02:51how exactly is AI being used right now in Hollywood?
02:56What are the most interesting applications of AI?
02:59Because it seems like it's something that everyone's doing,
03:01but a lot of people aren't wanting to openly talk about
03:03because of the writer's strike and the negotiations there
03:07and the sensitivities around AI in Hollywood.
03:10Well, I would say from a Hollywood standpoint,
03:12it's still pretty early.
03:15Right now, the rate of innovation of the tools themselves
03:20is at just lightning speed.
03:23And so I don't...
03:26And I think there are still a couple generations
03:30away from actually being in a place
03:36where they'll be able to really have an impact on film.
03:42But right now, where they are having a tremendous impact
03:45is around special effects,
03:47around advertising, around marketing materials.
03:51And there's some fantastic things that are happening there
03:55that are democratizing these tools
03:57in terms of making them available
04:00to a much, much wider constituent
04:04and also doing it at a fraction of the cost.
04:07Do you think it's something that people continue
04:09to stay mom about and experiment with quietly?
04:13Or do you think the sensitivities around generative AI
04:15are going to change in the entertainment industry?
04:19Well, I think right now, and it's...
04:22You know, I'm a little bit disappointed
04:26in that the posture right now is very, very defensive.
04:32Defensive by the studios or by...
04:34Across the board.
04:35I think, you know, I think everybody is imagining the worst
04:40rather than looking at what are the biggest opportunities
04:45out of it.
04:46And I think people are very, very concerned.
04:50And for sure, there is validity in those concerns.
04:54They're not...
04:54It's not chicken little time here
04:56where there isn't things that are not resolved
05:00and are actually, you know, could be quite destructive in it.
05:04But I tend to look at the glass half full, if not full,
05:08and see that there are...
05:12I think every time that I have seen a new technology come along,
05:20it is actually empowered storytellers and movie makers.
05:27And it has given them the ability to do greater ideas,
05:32bigger visions, bigger ideas.
05:36And my guess is this is going to be the same.
05:39But the unknown right now, I think, is where the fear factor is.
05:44Michael, did you want to add?
05:45What I was going to say a couple of years ago
05:47when the conversation was focused on 5G,
05:52one of the executives at one of the large telecoms
05:55described 5G as the technology of yes.
05:59And the context of that was, he said,
06:01every question he's asked about how will 5G impact this or that,
06:06will it?
06:07The answer is yes.
06:09I think that is underscored with AI
06:11in terms of what's it going to impact
06:14and how it's going to impact.
06:16But I think Jeffrey's right.
06:17The enhancement for storytelling,
06:20and in the earlier conversation,
06:23we were talking about storytelling or story making.
06:28The difference is there.
06:31Storytelling has got to be enhanced by artificial intelligence.
06:34It has to be.
06:35As long as we all understand the criticality of the prompt.
06:41The criticality of the prompt is where you win or lose
06:45in terms of the application.
06:46Here's the thing about AI.
06:48I'm sure how many people in this room
06:51have actually tried to create something
06:53using any of the new AI tools?
06:57You see about half.
06:59Better than half the audience here.
07:01Well, here's the one thing that couldn't be clearer.
07:07The human touch is absolutely essential.
07:12And the input direction of the human into AI
07:22is what produces a result.
07:24Yeah.
07:25And without that,
07:28it loses its dimensions.
07:32Which parts of the entertainment ecosystem
07:34do you think are going to be most touched soonest?
07:37Whether it's advertising, short form, long form?
07:41How do you see it evolving?
07:42It always will start sort of in the simplest places.
07:47And the simplest where I think you'll just see a tsunami of change
07:52is actually in marketing, advertising, advertising materials.
07:58In terms of personalization?
08:00So you think about today,
08:01there are dozens of media platforms,
08:04each of which you have to make specific content
08:07in specific formats that are optimized for that.
08:13And so today, you know,
08:15the old days used to make a 30-second commercial
08:18and you could put it everywhere.
08:19Today, there are hundreds of variations of that
08:23that you need to create.
08:26And what AI is trans...
08:28We have a company that does this right now called Creatify
08:33that just does a spectacular job
08:35of now putting this in the hands of small companies,
08:40creators themselves,
08:41who are making their own materials,
08:44and so you sort of start there
08:46because it's the shortest form.
08:49When you look at the type of marketing materials
08:52that are created for online,
08:56the environment that you're in allows it to be simpler.
09:01And then you sort of move through.
09:03The next place for sure is animation.
09:08And so I think this will create
09:11all kinds of new forms and formats
09:14and opportunities around animation.
09:17And you move up the chain,
09:20special effects also being completely transformed
09:24by generative AI.
09:27The last place will be film
09:30because it's the most complex,
09:32it's the most realistic,
09:34it's the one that, you know,
09:35the uncanny valley is still a valley
09:38that needs to be crossed.
09:40As close as it's getting,
09:42it's not there yet.
09:43Okay.
09:44Michael, is your view,
09:45I mean, you know the advertising
09:47and marketing business inside out.
09:48Is your view that marketing
09:49is where we're going to see this first?
09:51It's going to start there.
09:52I mean, you know,
09:53I'll say this tongue-in-cheek,
09:55it's one of the technologies
09:57that didn't get its start in adult.
09:59Just leave that out there
10:01as a hanging,
10:02as a dangling participle.
10:04But I think advertising
10:06will be the first place
10:07because to that point
10:09that Jeffrey was making,
10:11the targeting and the capability
10:14to direct that story,
10:16that message in the right way
10:18is magically enhanced
10:21through the lens of AI.
10:22And I think that's where you'll see
10:24the first applications, for sure.
10:26How does the geography
10:28of the creator economy change
10:30in the AI world?
10:31Does Los Angeles become
10:32even less important?
10:33I mean, we've seen already
10:34a lot of production happening
10:37outside of California
10:38with tax incentives and the like.
10:41Being able to create individually
10:43and outside of the studio ecosystem,
10:46are people going to be creating
10:48outside of Los Angeles?
10:49Does Hollywood become less important?
10:51Probably breaks down
10:52geographic barriers
10:53in a unique way.
10:55But I thought you were
10:56going somewhere else
10:57because the creator economy,
10:59there are places now
11:01that are lighthouse, for example,
11:03built in Los Angeles
11:05in New York through Whaler.
11:07Those are campuses for creators.
11:09So I thought you were going there.
11:11That's a different, you know,
11:13it's not just a beach house
11:14for creators, but it's a campus
11:16for them to work
11:17and work together
11:18and have the tools
11:19and the capability
11:20and the water cooler, effectively.
11:22So I thought you were going there.
11:23But geographically,
11:25the technology will break
11:26every barrier
11:27because you don't have to be
11:28anywhere to be doing it.
11:30Right.
11:30Jeffrey, did you think Hollywood...
11:32The creator economy is global.
11:34It's everywhere.
11:35It's here in Paris.
11:35It's in London.
11:36It's in Europe.
11:37It's in Asia.
11:38It's everywhere.
11:38And that is, in fact,
11:39what's been exciting about it
11:42and is what has created,
11:43whether it's on TikTok or YouTube,
11:45it's, you know, Snap.
11:47There are all of these amazing reels
11:50where just incredible content
11:52is being created, you know,
11:56and it's been democratized into...
11:59And individuals can actually become storytellers
12:04in these environments
12:06and create real businesses
12:07for themselves in it.
12:09And so I think this is now
12:12a transformative set of tools
12:15that is going to create
12:17all kinds of new value
12:19and opportunities
12:20and forms and formats
12:22of storytelling.
12:24So what does that future look like?
12:26How are the stories
12:27going to be different in the future?
12:29Well, you don't know yet
12:30because, you know, again,
12:33if you look at, you know,
12:35VO3 came out two weeks ago
12:37and it was, you know,
12:40just a quantum leap
12:41to what was unleashed
12:44eight weeks before that,
12:46which was a quantum leap
12:48to what was unleashed eight weeks.
12:49So this is going...
12:50It's changing quickly.
12:51...right now.
12:53Here's my greatest hope around this
12:58is that every time
13:00a new tool,
13:04creative tool,
13:07technical innovation came along,
13:09it actually created a new form of media.
13:14So you can go back 100 years ago
13:17and we started with movies.
13:18And then we went to television.
13:21And then we went to YouTube.
13:23And by the way,
13:24it didn't make...
13:26TV didn't eliminate movies.
13:27YouTube didn't eliminate TV.
13:30And we keep moving into these...
13:33Now, in this case,
13:34it's been shorter forms of entertainment.
13:36At some point,
13:38I don't know how you get much shorter
13:39than three or four or five seconds.
13:41So I think shorter
13:42is not going to be the answer.
13:44But I think we will see,
13:46as a result of these tools,
13:49in the hands of tens of millions of people,
13:53a new media.
13:55And that, to me,
13:57is like, wow,
13:58now you're, you know,
14:01that's a level of innovation
14:02and sort of reinventing the world
14:04that gets me most excited.
14:06Yeah.
14:06I would add something to that.
14:08And I'm going to give Jeffrey
14:10a well-deserved compliment.
14:14The words show business.
14:17I've always looked at that word show business
14:19or those two words as two words.
14:21The show and the business.
14:25Those who get the ability over their careers
14:28to have a green light,
14:30to green light programming,
14:33the really excellent green lighters
14:35were people who had amazing gut.
14:36That would be somebody like
14:38the gentleman to my right.
14:39and the question I would always ask Jeffrey
14:43is you've made decisions on your gut.
14:47This is where, I mean,
14:49history speaks for itself,
14:51but things like Lion King
14:52and just go down the list.
14:55But with data,
14:59are you going to make the same decisions?
15:01And how much is the data
15:02influencing that gut?
15:04Well, data is an aid to judgment, right?
15:08Data doesn't create anything.
15:10It observes it, quantifies it,
15:14you know, can, you know,
15:17give you attributes around it.
15:20But I don't, you know,
15:22I don't think that that
15:24actually can give you
15:26definitive answers.
15:28I mean, I cannot tell you
15:30how many thousands of previews
15:33of work in progress
15:34movies or television shows
15:37that I have gone and sat
15:38with audiences like this
15:40over decade after decade
15:42after decade.
15:44There's no,
15:45there's no science in that.
15:47You know, you can have
15:48a great screening
15:49and people can really love a movie
15:51and it can make two cents.
15:54Right.
15:55You know, and, you know,
15:57you go in those rooms with dials
15:58and ask people to react,
16:00plus or minus, you know,
16:01positive to scenes
16:02and this and it,
16:04and the more science
16:05that it gets applied to it,
16:07usually the less the results
16:09are organic and authentic
16:11and have that human touch.
16:13I keep going back and just say,
16:16the, and when you take these tools
16:19and you take away human touch,
16:22I think you're going to find
16:24something lacking.
16:26But there are great,
16:28you know, scientists today
16:30and great engineers
16:31and software people
16:33who are creating
16:34this next generation of tools
16:36who will disagree with that.
16:38But is your view
16:39that there will be still
16:40a very strong role
16:41for gatekeepers in the future
16:43or are gatekeepers
16:44much less important
16:45in the future
16:46because so many creators
16:47are empowered
16:48with these tools
16:49and ultimately consume
16:50and have the power
16:51of distribution
16:52at their fingertips
16:53and ultimately consumers
16:54will decide
16:55what's worth watching or not.
16:57Aside from the other attributes,
16:59the earliest attribute
17:02that I looked at
17:04with online content,
17:06YouTube,
17:07or even before,
17:08was democratization.
17:09I said it earlier,
17:11but the green light,
17:12everybody has their own green light now.
17:13They can green light something
17:15and just do it.
17:15So to your point,
17:17will there be gatekeepers?
17:20Probably where we are now.
17:21I don't think
17:22there'll be more gatekeepers.
17:23I don't think
17:23there'll be less gatekeepers.
17:25The question is,
17:26is there regulatory gatekeeping?
17:28That's another conversation
17:29which would, you know,
17:31take up an entire day.
17:32So I don't think
17:32we should go there,
17:33but that is another question.
17:35Right now,
17:36there is an issue
17:37in the states
17:38on giving states
17:40rights to, you know,
17:42oversee AI.
17:43so where is that
17:45going to play?
17:46That's the gatekeeper
17:47I'd be worried about.
17:48Not the studio head
17:50or the...
17:50You can make two arguments
17:52about AI's influence
17:54in Hollywood.
17:55You can make
17:55the more bullish case,
17:57which is that
17:57there's going to be
17:58a ton of innovation,
17:59that studios will be able
18:00to exact cost savings
18:01because things that took
18:04months to storyboard
18:05will take a day.
18:07Or you can make
18:08the more negative,
18:09bearish argument,
18:10which is that now
18:11anyone's a creator
18:12and Hollywood studios
18:13are less essential.
18:14Jeffrey, would you go
18:15long or short Hollywood
18:16right now?
18:20Again, I'm quite optimistic
18:23about how these tools
18:26are going to get
18:29integrated into
18:30the ecosystem of Hollywood
18:32and the talent
18:33and the filmmaking.
18:35I think right now
18:39there's, I think,
18:42too much defensive
18:45hesitation about it
18:46and I'm looking for it
18:49because the filmmakers
18:50I talk to,
18:51many of them
18:52are actually
18:53very, very excited.
18:55They're starting to imagine
18:56the possibilities here,
18:58but the fear factor
18:59is still, I think,
19:01quite high.
19:02And you have
19:03the other side of it,
19:04which you just have to say,
19:05which is that,
19:06you know,
19:07when you look at
19:08the rights holders here,
19:10and I'm not just talking
19:11about the studio rights holder,
19:13I'm talking about an artist,
19:14whether it's Tom Hanks
19:16or Tom Cruise
19:17or Julia Roberts
19:18or, you know,
19:21they own their talent
19:24and they deserve to be,
19:26to have that talent
19:27and their expression
19:29of that talent
19:31protected and compensated for.
19:34Right now,
19:35those protections
19:35are not really there for them.
19:38That's right.
19:38Michael.
19:39On the marketing
19:39and advertising side of this,
19:42there are two words
19:43that came up
19:44a lot earlier today
19:45and they come up
19:46in every conversation.
19:47Trust and transparency.
19:48They're critically important words
19:50in the marketing ecosystem.
19:52I think they're going
19:53to be critically important
19:54and even more so here
19:56because one of the things
19:57I think the consumer
19:58is appropriately demanding
20:02is transparency.
20:05You know,
20:06the old Moen in this room
20:07will remember
20:07the Memorex commercial
20:09with Ella Fitzgerald,
20:10but I'll use it anyway,
20:11when she had that marvelous voice
20:13and they played the tape
20:15and saw if the glass broke
20:16from the tape
20:17or from her real voice
20:18and the tagline
20:19was it is Ella or Memorex.
20:22I've dated myself for sure now,
20:24but I think that's important
20:26to the consumer.
20:27Am I seeing something
20:28that was Julia Roberts
20:30or was this an agentic Julia Roberts?
20:34Right.
20:35I think that's going to be
20:38an important consideration.
20:39How far are we
20:40from getting that issue resolved
20:42about rights holders
20:44and really having that trust
20:47and transparency
20:48and the framework established?
20:50I think we're at the front end of it.
20:51I'll put on my lawyer's hat,
20:53which I haven't worn
20:53in a long time,
20:54but I think we're
20:55at the front end of that
20:56and I think there is going
20:57to be a lot of conversation,
21:00shall I say.
21:01So what's your estimate
21:01on how long it will take
21:02to resolve these issues?
21:05I hesitate to give a time,
21:08but I think the next 12
21:09to 24 months are critical.
21:12Okay, that's soon.
21:12That's quick.
21:13We have to.
21:14It's moving so fast.
21:16This is a case where
21:17the old expression I love
21:18is speed kills
21:19if you don't have it.
21:20This is a time
21:21you better have it
21:21because it's going to move
21:22much faster
21:23than we could ever imagine.
21:25You're both investing heavily
21:27in the AI space.
21:28How do you think about
21:30the attributes of the companies
21:32that you're looking at?
21:34Because already in the last 24 months,
21:37we've seen a lot of companies rise,
21:40some fall significantly.
21:42How do you think about
21:43which trends within generative AI
21:45you're looking to ride?
21:47Well, the ones I'm most focused on
21:50are at the sort of
21:52the application level,
21:54which is as opposed
21:55to the sort of large language models.
21:58And I think that the,
21:59you know, the issues,
22:02the anxieties,
22:03the problems right now
22:05are these large language models
22:07that are ingesting everything
22:09on the planet
22:10and don't have any boundaries
22:12around them.
22:13The companies
22:14that we're looking at today
22:16are actually
22:18at the application level.
22:20And so these are tools
22:21that they're creating.
22:23And from those founders
22:26and entrepreneurs,
22:28I have found pretty consistently
22:30sensitivity
22:33around the sort of broad spectrum
22:36of rights holders.
22:37so whether it's a company
22:38like Eleven Labs
22:39that does sound
22:41and voice dubbing
22:43and language translation
22:46and stuff,
22:47you know,
22:48the founder of that company
22:50is actually quite respectful
22:52around this.
22:53He's not looking to dart around
22:55those.
22:57He's providing the tools
22:58that hopefully will actually
22:59allow people to monetize
23:01and create even more ways.
23:04Michael, anything you wanted to add?
23:06No, I think Jeffrey covered that well.
23:08I mean, I think that's exactly
23:09where we are.
23:10Can I ask you, Michael,
23:11you've spent a lot of time
23:12with publishers
23:13and we've talked about entertainment
23:15with filmed entertainment a lot.
23:18But when it comes to the future
23:19of news consumption,
23:22how much do you think
23:24disremediation is coming
23:25to news publishers?
23:27And do you think ultimately
23:29LLMs are going to be
23:30the source of news
23:31for most consumers?
23:33I was going to go somewhere else
23:33than news
23:34because I was going to reference
23:36the recent comments
23:37Mark Zuckerberg made
23:38to advertisers.
23:40What Mark said
23:41and the idea
23:44of the success
23:44that's been realized
23:46by Meta
23:47at a level
23:48most people don't really
23:49pay attention
23:50to the fact
23:50that the SMB
23:51or the long tail
23:52is where most of the revenue
23:53comes from.
23:54and recently Mark said
23:57if you're
23:59a small
24:00medium-sized business
24:02just tell us
24:03your goal
24:05and we'll do the rest.
24:08We'll tell you
24:09who your target is.
24:10We'll create
24:11the commercial
24:12for you.
24:12We'll fashion
24:14the message.
24:15There was a moment
24:1710 years ago
24:18or maybe 15 years ago
24:20when the idea
24:22of disintermediation
24:22of the advertising agency
24:25ecosystem
24:25was very much
24:26front and center
24:28and it didn't seem
24:29to happen
24:30but if you listen
24:31to what Mark said
24:32that is disintermediation
24:34at the highest level.
24:35So we're finally
24:36going to see
24:36what was long forecast.
24:38If you hear
24:39the CEO
24:40of one of the largest
24:41publishers in the world
24:42Facebook
24:43say that
24:44just this is kind of
24:46bring us
24:46you're hungry
24:47you're tired
24:47and you're poor
24:47just tell us
24:48what you're interested
24:49in achieving
24:50and we'll do the rest.
24:51We're almost
24:53out of time
24:53very quickly
24:54from both of you
24:55what is one thing
24:57that people
24:57are not talking about
24:59or thinking about
24:59right now
25:00when it comes
25:00to entertainment
25:01and AI
25:01that they should be
25:03in your opinion?
25:04Jeffrey?
25:07I have no idea.
25:08That one's
25:09Talking about all of it.
25:10Yeah I think
25:13you know
25:14I guess the direct
25:16attack
25:17on search
25:18as we know it
25:19Yep
25:19I think
25:21search as we
25:22knew it
25:24is probably
25:25the first to go
25:26And then I think
25:27there's a very
25:27interesting question
25:28of consumer wallet share
25:30and where
25:30they choose to spend
25:32entertainment dollars
25:33and whether it
25:34ultimately goes
25:35to LLMs
25:36and not some of
25:37the streaming platforms
25:38there's
25:39a really
25:40many big questions
25:42to ask
25:42fodder for future
25:43conversations
25:44Thank you both
25:44Thank you.
25:45Thank you Alex.
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