- il y a 5 semaines
Mind Matters: What is Driving the Mental Health App Expansion?
Catégorie
🤖
TechnologieTranscription
00:02Okay, so a quick temperature check with the audience.
00:04Who's been enjoying the conversation so far here on the Blue Stage?
00:09Yeah, a couple of you.
00:10Okay, well let's see what the panelists can do to get more hands up in the air.
00:13So this is my final chat now on the Blue Stage.
00:18And since morning we've been discussing the potential for technology to really revolutionise healthcare.
00:24And one of the best things that technology is providing the everyday person right now
00:28is having this personal agency.
00:30And there's a great thing that's happening.
00:33There's a mental health app explosion.
00:36The market is currently set at 7.5 billion.
00:38It could increase to 24 billion dollars.
00:41But the guys next to me have all the facts and figures.
00:43So please, it's so great to have all of you.
00:46Please welcome Fanny Jack, John Nasland and Michael Tresco.
00:50Guys, it's so good to have you on this panel for the final discussion
00:54that I'm at least having here on the Blue Stage.
00:56So if I go down the line, all of you introduce yourselves to our lovely audience.
01:00Thank you and great to meet everyone.
01:02I'm Michael.
01:03I'm part of 8Roads Ventures.
01:05We're a global venture capital firm partnering with the most exciting entrepreneurs and companies.
01:11And based in London and spent a lot of my time on this intersection between healthcare and technology.
01:19Fanny?
01:19Hello, everyone.
01:21I am Fanny.
01:23And I'm here today as a doctor and as an entrepreneur.
01:27I am a French psychiatrist.
01:30And I'm currently working at EDRA as a medical director.
01:35And I also founded a company with a chatbot in mental health for mood disorders.
01:42And I'm also the co-founder of Mental Tech.
01:47Mental Tech is a French collective with a startup in mental health to bring some innovation
01:54and some ethics in those tools.
02:08Okay.
02:09And bridging gaps in access to mental health care in many settings globally, but with emphasis on the U.S.
02:15Okay.
02:16Well, John, I'll start with you then.
02:18So given the work that you do and the specific area of focus,
02:22why do you think people have really bought into this idea of having a mental health app?
02:28What is it that really speaks to people?
02:30Yeah.
02:31So I'm really excited about the role technology can play and really bridging gaps in access to mental health care.
02:36And I see it really, what I find so exciting about it is that it's really driven by the consumer.
02:41We see that we have very poor access to mental health care in most countries worldwide.
02:46It's a big issue in the U.S., especially in lower resource settings where I also work, like in India.
02:50But we see that it's actually the patients, the individuals with mental health issues,
02:54their family members that are going to use technology,
02:57seeking support in places where they don't have access to a good mental health clinician,
03:02where there simply is not a mental health clinician available.
03:04that's where technology plays a real role.
03:07And I see it really driven by consumers.
03:09And I think that the field and the industry really needs to catch up to this demand
03:13to try to really improve access to quality care.
03:17Okay.
03:18So, Michael, bringing you in then as the investor then,
03:20I mean, do you feel it?
03:22Was the reason why you decided to go into mental health apps, was it based on people?
03:27What was really driving it?
03:31I think fundamentally it's an underserved need.
03:35And when we think about what's causing the need, there is a fundamental shortage of supply practitioners,
03:42there is a fundamental shortage of funding, and there is a fundamental shortage of time as well, right?
03:46And we believe that technology can help address all of these issues to some degree.
03:54And it's, you know, creates opportunity for innovation to help a good cause.
03:59It feels like a win-win.
04:00And so can you talk to us a little bit about the kind of investment that you're currently doing?
04:04How many apps are you involved with?
04:06Or how many companies?
04:07Yeah, that's a good question.
04:08You know, globally, we are invested partners with over 400 entrepreneurs.
04:16Of them, a subset is in healthcare, and let's say maybe 10 or so will be in or around mental
04:24health.
04:24And we will invest in anything from apps to software that will help on the clinician side to anything in
04:33between.
04:34So it's a really holistic approach to saying who is best suited to solve this problem, right?
04:40And it ranges from anything of saying, you know, we want to help employers provide access to employees to mental
04:49health care.
04:50We want individual people to be able to provide, to get access to mental health care.
04:55We also want physicians to be able to more effectively provide care.
05:00Okay, well, you brought up physicians, and obviously Fanny is a former psychiatrist or a current psychiatrist.
05:06So talk to us a little bit about, is it, given where we're at right now, when it comes, we're
05:13also openly talking about mental health, perhaps also because of the pandemic.
05:17But we're so open now about the discussion in and around mental health.
05:22How excited are you by that, or how, you know, reassured are you that this is finally happening for us
05:29as a society?
05:31The market for the mental health app is going to triple by 2042 because, as you say, the demand is
05:45greater than the supply now.
05:47So everything is booming because it is a huge need and an urgent need.
05:57Maybe in France, it's important to notice the different services and the different business model we have, because I think
06:07it's different from the UK.
06:09So healthcare, we have some specificities in France.
06:13For me, there are three markets.
06:16First, it's telemedicine tools, medical devices, such as teleconsultation, remote patient monitoring, or digital therapeutics.
06:28So it's safe, it's an urgent need, and this is a hybrid care.
06:34So for me, it's the greatest model because it is hybrid, human care, and one app.
06:42But you have to be validated by a clinical study.
06:48It's very expensive, it's long, and maybe after you can be reimbursed in France by social insurance.
06:55So it's the perfect business model.
06:59Second, you have the wellness app.
07:02It's a big market.
07:04It's a B2C market to improve your sleep, to have some tips to manage your stress, for self-care, self
07:17-management of symptoms, etc.
07:19It's a market, it's B2C, so you have to pay to download those apps.
07:23And in France, users aren't used by paying for their health.
07:32So it's a very, very competitive market.
07:36And third, but I think we're going to talk about that, it's the huge market of chatbots.
07:42And it's enormous and huge, but it can be dangerous because there is no clinical validation, it's free, it's 24
07:52-7 access.
07:53So, and the user is beginning to, is starting to use it as a virtual friends.
08:01So he's unaware about the risks he can take in terms of addiction, for instance.
08:09But I think we're going to talk about that.
08:11Yeah, we'll talk about that.
08:13We'll come to the pitfalls of all of this a little bit later.
08:16I want to talk about the positive side first.
08:20And so, John, coming to you then, I mean, you know, your sort of background is using digital innovation to
08:27train frontline providers, support recovery in people with severe mental illness.
08:32So how, given, you know, really the service that you're providing to your peers, you know, how do you feel
08:44about the fact that nowadays we are living in this world where people are more receptive to actually getting treatment
08:50as well and talking about all of this now?
08:52Yeah, no, it's great.
08:53It's a great point.
08:54And I think as a field, it's incredibly exciting.
08:57It's one of the sort of the things of the fallout of COVID that I think has been really beneficial
09:01around mental health, just that we're talking about it.
09:04There's more acceptance.
09:05I know as a researcher and a scientist, I used to say I do research on mental health and people
09:10say, well, why would you do that?
09:11And this is, you know, 2018, 19.
09:13People say, why would you, why would, like, why would you do work in mental health?
09:16That seems like such a ridiculous thing to study.
09:18Now, when I say that, same, same thing.
09:21I say I introduce myself the same way.
09:22Nothing's really changed.
09:23People say, oh, my goodness, that's so important.
09:25I have, you know, my mother has this issue.
09:28I've had this issue.
09:29I've experienced this.
09:30So I just think the fact we've, the entire discourse has transitioned to now people acknowledging it, talking about it.
09:38I think it's really, I think, an important shift for the whole field.
09:42But now there's an openness to seek services and treatment, which I think means that we need to get the
09:47right treatments out there.
09:48Because even though now people are talking about it, we haven't fixed the mental health system.
09:52And I don't think we're going to.
09:53I think it's got, you know, there's a lot of issues.
09:55We're not going to train enough psychiatrists.
09:56It doesn't mean that we shouldn't.
09:58We should be training more.
09:59But we need to think of other innovations to bridge this gap.
10:02There's simply too large a demand.
10:04And I think that's where technology has to play a role.
10:06It's not can it, will it, should it.
10:08It has to.
10:09It absolutely has to.
10:10And I think that's a variety of ways.
10:12And I think that's one of the exciting parts of the field.
10:15I know you're going to, we're going to get into the pitfalls or the downsides.
10:18But I think this is also, like I mentioned just, you know, my first comment is this is driven by
10:22consumer demand.
10:24And in my work with serious mental illness, that's been actually one of the things I've found incredibly inspiring.
10:28is people who live with a highly stigmatized illness are facing so many challenges trying to access services.
10:35The system's not working for them.
10:37They go online.
10:38They go onto other, they go onto digital platforms.
10:40That's how they're getting their help.
10:41So we need to figure out how do we get the right digital tools into the right, you know, into
10:45the people's hands who need them.
10:47And then make sure the outcomes are there.
10:49And I think that's another one of the key things is making sure the outcomes are correct.
10:52But let me just ask you a quick follow-up then.
10:54I mean, obviously, if we are talking about serious mental health issues, how are these apps really helping people to
11:00understand, well, to treat those people?
11:02Because it's a fine balance, isn't it?
11:05You can't allow an app to do all the work.
11:07And you can't allow the person to invest too much time in the app.
11:12Because if it is a serious mental health issue, they obviously need the clinician side as well.
11:17So what's the balance there?
11:18Yeah, no, I think that's a great point.
11:20And I don't see technology as a replacement for the human side of mental health care.
11:24I think that there's a fundamental need for human connection as part of recovery, as part of maintaining good mental
11:31health.
11:31But I think technology can do a lot to connect you with the right person for that support.
11:36It can maybe help with addressing more minor mental health issues and then offering sort of that linkage to the
11:44formal care if someone has an escalation or a crisis.
11:47So I see that being a fundamental role.
11:50I think the other thing with technology is ensuring that there's some level of trust.
11:54And I think fundamental to treating any mental illness is that you have to have trust with the clinician, trust
12:00with whoever that provider might be, the mental health provider.
12:03You need trust with the technology too.
12:06And for it to work, there has to be that trust.
12:08And if the trust isn't there, I don't think you can help someone overcome a mental health issue, whether it's
12:12a serious mental health issue, which might be more focused on chronic management or something like depression or anxiety, which
12:18are very common, which can be actually very readily treated.
12:21You still need that trust for successful outcomes.
12:24And so, Michael, trust is probably a big issue for you as well.
12:27So where are you making sure that the people that you're investing in are aligning with those sort of good
12:33principles?
12:36That's a good philosophical question.
12:38I think fundamentally taking a step back, right, because we're talking about medicine here.
12:44There is fundamental ways to ask, is it effective?
12:49Is it working?
12:49And I think to Fanny's point, there is, you know, clinical studies and processes that ultimately help answer that question,
12:58right?
12:59And then the question is really how much impact can technology make?
13:07And to what extent is it a replacement or in a supplement in addition to what's already being done?
13:13And I think that's a case-by-case question, but I certainly believe that there's a lot of room to
13:19improve on what we already have in a way that works just as well.
13:24I think that's the bar, right?
13:25It shouldn't work less well.
13:28And in a way that enhances the experience and also removes some of the friction, right?
13:32So if you think about the traditional notion of mental health, it's you're, you know, you're going into some dark
13:39room and sitting on a sofa, maybe lying down, right?
13:42And some people really like that idea.
13:44Others are saying, that's not really my cup of tea.
13:47I don't really want to do this, right?
13:50And others, frankly, don't have the time or they live too far away.
13:53And so all of these things, I think the question is, is it absolutely necessary to get to the outcome
14:00that is desired because there's a medical threshold, right?
14:04Or not?
14:05And if the answer is, well, we can achieve the same or better results by leveraging technology, well, if it's
14:12more convenient, less expensive, more scalable, we ought to seriously consider it, right?
14:18And what sort of results are you seeing within the sort of apps that you're a part of right now?
14:23And perhaps when you look, you know, inside the market as well and the sort of technology at play and
14:29what they're doing, what sort of excites you?
14:32Well, I think it is this opportunity to say, one, we're starting with multimodal, meaning that today, typically, the effective
14:43treatments involve, you know, the patient clearly.
14:46But there is a human, there is some technology, there is some exercises that are being done.
14:53And then the question is, how far can you shift that equation, right?
14:57Like, and are there certain instances and cases where actually you may not need the human touch, right?
15:03And I'm focused on the need.
15:04You may still want it, which is totally fine.
15:06And then that's a preference, but you may not need it, right?
15:10And I think the analogy is a little bit, if you think about cars, self-driving cars, if any of
15:19you guys have been to San Francisco recently, have taken a Waymo.
15:24It's pretty incredible.
15:26It's not something that I would say 20 or 30 years ago, people would have thought was going to be
15:31happening in that shape or form.
15:33And there's still plenty of people out there who don't want to take a Waymo and would rather stick with
15:38a, you know, with somebody driving the car.
15:41And the question is, is it just as safe?
15:44And if the answer is yes, well, then it becomes a choice.
15:46If it's not as safe, we ought not to do it, which I think is the same approach we should
15:51take to health care.
15:53Brilliant.
15:54So, Fanny, then, I mean, we've talked about the traditional way of, Mike was talking about the person, you know,
15:59getting their therapy, lying on a sofa, talking face-to-face.
16:04As someone who, I mean, perhaps, I don't know how you did it, obviously,
16:09but someone that provided that care to a patient,
16:13what interests you now about taking on this own role, taking on this new role within technology?
16:19So, moving from the clinician to the person who's moving with technologies
16:24and helping to create all of these wonderful mental health apps?
16:29As a doctor, I think, maybe I can have the quote in English.
16:34In French, we say, on doit prendre l'innovation par la main avant qu'elle nous prenne à la gorge.
16:42Maybe in English, the quote, maybe you have to take innovation by hand before it grabs you by the throat.
16:51So, I think doctors don't need to be afraid about new technology because we have to go.
16:59And to be safe, as you said, doctors can have to be involved building those tools.
17:10They don't have to be afraid by these tools because good technology, good digital tools,
17:17as you said, it's not to replace professionals, of course.
17:21It's to support them to do a better job, guiding people for a better care, personalized care,
17:31be here for our patients when they need, but not wasting time when they don't need.
17:40So, for me, it's psychotherapy augmentée.
17:46It's bigger than simple psychotherapy.
17:49So, doctors have to move and they have to take this with ethical, with ethical frameworks,
17:56with clinical validation and co-build with patients and with doctors, of course.
18:02I'll come to you then.
18:04I mean, do you feel as if the medical profession, you know, HCPs, that they're really buying into
18:09all of this technology now and specifically the individual clinician?
18:13Because, again, to talk about the healthcare system, especially perhaps we can take the
18:17example of a public healthcare system.
18:19It's so fractured.
18:21It needs so much investment.
18:23Doctors don't have any time for the patient.
18:26do they see, from perhaps your analysis and your, you know, looking at the data of their
18:32day-to-day life, do they see the benefit of it now and can they enact it?
18:36Where are we at?
18:37Yeah, it's a great question.
18:38And I don't think I can give one answer that will generalize to all health systems or all
18:42public systems or I'm even thinking within the U.S.
18:45They're so fragmented and there's so many different types of healthcare providers.
18:49I think there has to be a value add for the provider in this as well.
18:52And I'll use the perspective of, so in my work, our team focuses a lot on frontline providers,
18:59people who do not have, you know, specialized training in mental healthcare.
19:02We leverage task-sharing models.
19:04So essentially, how can you, in settings where there simply are not mental health providers,
19:08how can you train and support community health workers, midwives, nurses, other types of
19:12providers?
19:13And they can be trained and they can deliver high-quality mental healthcare.
19:17And that can offer a benefit to them because now they're addressing a need in their patients
19:21because they're going to see those patients, whether, you know, they often tell us, yeah,
19:25everyone I see has depression or, you know, I go to see patients with diabetes.
19:29This is from community health workers, you know, in rural Texas.
19:31They're going door to door.
19:33They're seeing patients with all kinds of complex chronic conditions who also have depression
19:37or have, and this then now is empowering them to address those issues.
19:41From the side of the specialist clinician, this is not, should not be seen as something
19:46we're taking, you know, we're taking away the psychiatrist's job.
19:49We're taking away the psychologist's job.
19:50It's to the contrary.
19:51What we're trying to do is empower frontline providers using technology, supporting them,
19:58making sure they can address these issues.
19:59But then if there's a complex issue or a crisis, there's a referral pathway to that specialist
20:04provider.
20:05And the advantage there is then the specialist is seeing really only the patients who have
20:09the most complex conditions, whereas the more sort of, you're essentially triaging, you're
20:14making sure that you're building capacity at the community level to address more common
20:18conditions.
20:19And digital tools can do that as well.
20:21An app could, for instance, a self-help app, or perhaps, you know, maybe it's app guided
20:26by AI could address a lot of minor issues, you know, depression, anxiety symptoms, which are
20:31common.
20:32But then if they're not addressed using that tool, there's some kind of way to get it to
20:36the provider.
20:37So the value add, there has to be a value add to the provider.
20:40And that's still a challenging area.
20:42And I mean, there's all kinds of issues around our sort of our fundamental billing model that
20:47we, you know, how our health system is structured, which I don't think, you know, that's another
20:51conversation.
20:52But essentially, it has to be seen as a value for the provider at the end of the day and
20:55the health system.
20:56And if they see that they're able to address a lot more cases in the community and only
21:01getting the most serious cases into, say, a hospital, into the ER, that's a huge value
21:05add, because now you're addressing more issues at perhaps a lower cost, but you're only getting
21:11the most serious and you're getting more serious cases that may have been, you know, undetected
21:15or may have been reluctant to go in and seek care.
21:17So I think there's, it has to have some value for the hospital system and the health system
21:22more broadly.
21:23I can see you nodding a lot, Michael.
21:25So let me, and perhaps you can reply to John as well.
21:27But another question, perhaps within all of this as well, is public and private partnership,
21:34because we see the offer that is given by, you know, public authorities when it comes to
21:37the way in which they use technology.
21:39It seems quite basic.
21:41So is there a way in which you can have a better partnership so that they can offer a
21:47better service to their patients as well?
21:51I think that's been changing, right?
21:54And I think the, and again, sort of the public systems will now have to go into country by
21:59country and district by district, but sort of, I think taking a step back, there's been
22:05a lot of openness to innovation, I think, which is, which is fantastic.
22:08And I think sort of to, to John's point, I think there is this iceberg phenomenon with
22:14mental health, right?
22:16Where we're seeing the top of it, that's above the water that is treated, identified and talked
22:22about.
22:22And then there's a whole piece that's underneath that's either people don't want to deal with
22:29or are not aware.
22:31And I think that's the real opportunities to say, how do you capture that part, right?
22:36And I'll probably throw in people who are aware in one treatment, but then they're stuck
22:40in wait lines, getting access to, to a provider, right?
22:44And that's where I think the government is very well positioned to address this as a problem,
22:52right?
22:52Because it's not some, like it does need sort of holistic acknowledgement that the problem
22:57exists and a systematic wanting to address it, right?
23:00That's perfect for policy.
23:02And that to me is a very obvious use case for technology.
23:05And I think that's, that is where we're, we're going, right?
23:08Because the, I think the most acute cases are being treated and they're being prioritized.
23:14And the health systems typically work in a way that it is sorted by severity and, you know,
23:20it may not work every time, but holistically, I think that, that approach is a sound one.
23:24And then the question is, how do we expand beyond the urgent and immediate to something that
23:31is just as important, but maybe not as obvious and, you know, without somebody really, you
23:37know, crying out loud.
23:38And I think that's where technology can really help.
23:40And I think there is a recognition by the public systems that that's where we need to go.
23:45And so, um, yeah, I'm looking forward to what the next couple of years are going to bring.
23:50I think we're going to see some, uh, some way more moments in, in mental health.
23:55So you're essentially catching the people that fall between the cracks, you could say in,
23:59in, in, in a way.
24:00Yeah.
24:01Falling between the cracks.
24:02Don't realize there is a crack, um, think there is a crack, but, uh, they can't be bothered,
24:07uh, you know, waiting, uh, a month for an appointment or maybe they saw one practitioner didn't
24:14get on with them.
24:15And then now they're giving up on it, right?
24:17There's a whole host of frictions you have.
24:20If you're saying we're now looking at a condition that is not like surgery where you go in, it's
24:27done.
24:27Um, and, um, you know, you move on with your life, hopefully, but where interpersonal dynamics
24:32matter, timing matters, environment matters, and, you know, the acknowledgement that it's
24:39something that you need, uh, you know, a professional to help with matters.
24:42And so all of these things are quite different from saying, oh, I have severe knee pain.
24:47Oh, okay.
24:48My ACL is torn.
24:49Let's get it fixed.
24:50Now I'm done.
24:51That's just very fundamentally different.
24:53And I think once, you know, the awareness is there and the ability to early detect early,
25:00we will come to the recognition that actually many more people in society are impacted.
25:07and hopefully if there is an option to get treatment, that will mean that as a society,
25:11we will be much better off, which it's pretty noble cause.
25:14And I would say as a government or, um, you know, healthcare system, that's probably something
25:18that you want to get behind.
25:20Indeed.
25:21Well, we'll come to now.
25:22So we've talked about all the positives, um, of the mental health app explosion, but Fanny,
25:28let's come to the negatives then.
25:29And you wanted to bring up, yeah, this is the one that Fanny really, really wants to talk
25:32about, so the negative aspect of everyone's favorite friend these days, asterisks maybe,
25:39uh, ChatGPT.
25:40No, but of course, I agree with you, ChatGPT, and I created a chat bot for mental health,
25:48so I can't say that it's negative, of course, um, chat, chat bots can be helpful, for instance,
25:55for prevention, uh, to, uh, have some tips, uh, to bit of sleep, to, to start meditation,
26:03et cetera.
26:03Or maybe, uh, to, uh, to tackle the stigma with the mental health, it can be, um, a first
26:10step to, uh, see after a psychiatrist, because, uh, now, uh, some people are just afraid or
26:17shamed to, uh, see someone, so it can be a first step.
26:21Or maybe between two consultations, two appointments with your psychiatrist, because it's accessible
26:2724-7, so maybe you can find help between two appointments, so there are positive points,
26:35of course, but, but, no, I think ChatGPT, there are major limits, of course, it can replace,
26:45uh, psychotherapy, as, uh, we said, uh, because, um, it can't, uh, detect your non, uh, verbal
26:54signals, uh, your, um, just like, I don't know, uh, your body language has a tremor, tears,
27:02it can, it can't, uh, uh, detect that, and, uh, it has no real empathy, it, it, it's a fake
27:12empathy, it doesn't adapt responses, uh, to, uh, the, each, uh, specificities of, uh, the,
27:21of each individual, of course. Um, another point is that, uh, ChatGPT is, um, is going to,
27:30to have some answers very logical, very generic, very pragmatic answers, and sometimes, it can
27:38lake nuances and increase, uh, the anxiety of the user. For example, uh, in Belgium, uh,
27:47uh, young, uh, young man suffering from, uh, eco-anxiety, has committed suicide, uh, after
27:54weeks of talking with ChatGPT because ChatGPT reinforced his anxiety and his distress about, uh,
28:02the, uh, the ecological, uh, problem. And another point for me is that ChatBot doesn't know your
28:10context, and in a psychiatry context matters, of course. If your mother committed suicide
28:1820 years ago, of course, it's very important for the therapist to, to know that, but you
28:24don't think to, to, you don't think it's important, so you don't tell that, uh, to ChatGPT. Uh,
28:31even it, it can make some risky recommendations, uh, uh, encouraging someone suffering from anorexia, uh, to go
28:40on diet because it doesn't know the context of, and of course, the patient is not going to, to tell
28:47him,
28:48hey, yeah, I am anorexic. Uh, no, of course. So, uh, it can, uh, brings you, uh, the, the answers
28:54that you want.
28:55Uh, so that is, that is a, a real point. And for me, real therapy, um, involves, uh, frustration, time.
29:05You need to be a patient. So, uh, um, 24-7 access, it's not a good thing because therapy, uh,
29:14uh, works with frustration
29:16and patience to think by yourself. And just finally, uh, some emerging risks, uh, loneliness, of course, dependence,
29:26addiction, and an ecological, uh, impact. But it's also cool.
29:33It's also cool. Um, but it sort of blows my mind a little bit, um, that, is this perhaps a
29:40generational thing
29:41that people are turning to ChatGPT for their mental health? Perhaps, I don't know, Fanny, you want to take the
29:45question?
29:46Who are the users? What's their age room?
29:48Yeah, younger generations, I think, uh, 15, uh, 35, uh, because, uh, it's a, uh, it's a new mindset.
29:57They want, uh, everything, uh, everything, everywhere, uh, uh, full package consumers, and they don't want to wait.
30:07They don't want to pay. So, uh, and, uh, it's, uh, their way of life. Uh, apps, uh, apps are
30:14the way of life.
30:15They don't want to wait for younger people. So, I think it's younger generations, yes.
30:19Okay. Well, we have, um, oh, gosh, it's less than two minutes. So, a quick temperature check.
30:23I mean, where, what are you excited about in the future, whether it's six months, five years, ten years,
30:28about the mental health at market? Go down the line. Michael first.
30:34I think two things. One, um, the impact that technology is going to have on freeing out physician's time
30:41to actually focus on treating patients as opposed to all the other things that actually take up 50% of
30:48their time,
30:49which is a pretty mind-blowing fact, right? Documentation, et cetera, et cetera.
30:53And so, I think that's going to be a really big unlock, and it's going to help both in terms
30:59of, um, making everyone's lives easier,
31:02but also encourage more people to become physicians and stay physicians,
31:07which I think is, has been a big issue just because the job is quite, um, challenging.
31:12Um, so, I think that's, that's on that side. And clearly, I think, um, you know, to Fanny's point,
31:19I think the, let's say, prosumer apps, right? Maybe the sort of the, the unbeknown therapy tools that people actually
31:28think,
31:29oh, I just am chatting with a friend online, but then it somehow transitions into a mental, um, mental health
31:35topic.
31:37The degree to which they are able to surface early detection and be a pathway to then get the person,
31:46the, the right treatment, advice, or whatever it may be, which again, today goes completely undetected, right?
31:54So, if I'm having a conversation with, uh, with, um, you know, whatever chatbot I'm using,
31:59and it goes into a direction where a healthcare, you know, professional would say,
32:05hey, this is one where we should probably zoom in on and spend a bit more time on, uh, with
32:11someone who's qualified,
32:13it would be pretty amazing for me to, to recognize that, um, and to be able to then, um, access
32:20that care.
32:21I hope that you can make some of those investments. And Fanny?
32:24Uh, just to conclude, uh, because, uh, we don't have, uh, more time, but, uh, AI will, will become soon
32:31for us,
32:31the doctors, a key ally, of course, I am sure. I am excited, uh, for instance, by, um, digital phenotyping,
32:39uh, to help, uh, uh, professionals, uh,
32:42to see, uh, relapses and, uh, to, uh, to move, uh, faster and, uh, and fairly, uh, uh, to help
32:52patients, uh, to, uh, not to relapse,
32:55not to be hospitalized, et cetera. So, uh, doctors, we, we have to go. No choice.
33:01Okay.
33:02John?
33:03Great. Well, I'll just give a comment from the perspective, uh, from research. Um, I think what is exciting, but
33:08also what has to happen,
33:09is more partnership between industry and, and researchers, because I think one of the issues is there's been sort of
33:14a disconnect.
33:15The research studies that have been done, which have not always been so supportive of digital tools, are far behind
33:21the development of the technology itself.
33:23And I think there has to be partnership to kind of have these two advance in parallel.
33:28I think, one, it's for, for the benefit of individuals who these technologies are designed for.
33:33Um, if you use the example with, with chat GPT, there may be ways to evaluate how to improve that.
33:38If it's detecting someone actually is using language that suggests they have a mental health issue, we should be identifying
33:43ways to actually flag that.
33:45Um, but the only way to do that is through larger studies, through evaluation, uh, and then through randomized, randomized
33:50evaluations.
33:51It could be two different types of technology, seeing which one's better, which one's not. Um, because we don't know.
33:56We don't always know.
33:57We know technology will play a role, but we don't always know which technologies or how.
34:02Uh, and I think there's opportunity there to really sort of evaluate and to do that more rapidly.
34:07And then just one last, very last thing, the understanding the mechanism.
34:10I think one of the key challenges with mental health always has been, it's a black box.
34:15We don't, we know that we can help people get better and we know we can help them to fulfill,
34:20you know, and function, you know, in daily life.
34:22But we don't always know how. We don't know the exact ingredients.
34:25And I see that as an avenue, certainly in my own research that I'm pursuing is how do we actually
34:30unpack that black box?
34:32Uh, and I think with the advent of things like AI and new technologies, we can begin to do that
34:36and really understand how, how do you, how does it work?
34:39How does therapy work? How do we actually help someone get better and stay well?
34:43And packing the black box. I mean, that's a great way to end the panel.
34:46Um, everyone, please give a round of applause to the panelists. Thank you all so much.
34:49And it's been my pleasure to moderate, uh, the health stage, the blue stage this morning.
34:53And this is my final session. Say bye bye, audience.
34:57Thank you.
34:57– Sous-titrage FR 2021
Commentaires