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How Can Tourism Become More Sustainable?
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00:01Welcome to this session, we're going to be talking about how tourism can become more sustainable.
00:06Come on up here to my speakers for this.
00:09Whilst they're joining me on stage, let's get a quick poll of our audience.
00:15I'm going to sit right over here and we are going to ask you some questions to get us started
00:21here.
00:22So now hands up if you have already planned your summer vacation.
00:27Yeah, quite a few hands going up there.
00:30All right, now keep your hands up if, when you were planning it, the environmental, economic, or societal impact was
00:38part of your planning.
00:41Ooh, there's like maybe one and a half hands up there.
00:46Okay, brilliant.
00:47You're at the right place then because by the end of the session, we're going to know how both from
00:52a business and a traveler consumer perspective,
00:55we can plan our vacations and tourism better.
00:59Let me introduce you to our brilliant speakers to do this.
01:02We have the general manager of East Europe at Intrepid Travel.
01:06Anse Svinga, welcome Anse.
01:09Originally from Latvia, you're now based in Croatia.
01:12Intrepid Travel was born in Australia, 1989, yes.
01:17And you put together small travel groups, 10 people max, and use public transport to get people around.
01:25Perfect.
01:26Okay.
01:26Next to you, we have Misa.
01:28Misa Labaril.
01:29Welcome, Misa.
01:30A policy officer from the EU Commission.
01:33Almost 20 years experience, Misa, in shaping European policies, four years of that focused on travel and tourism.
01:41And then right over here, we have Catrina Meehan.
01:44Welcome, Catrina.
01:45Director of Public Affairs at Omeo.
01:48That's a German online travel comparison and booking website.
01:52You're born in 20...
01:53Well, Omeo was born in 2013.
01:56Today, Omeo employs more than 300 people and is active in 45 countries around the globe.
02:02and is a European tech unicorn.
02:05Welcome here.
02:06Now, let's first of all set the scene and get some context looking at how tourism and travel has evolved.
02:16Misa, can you share with us some data and numbers from a European level to illustrate what's going on out
02:22there with travel and tourism?
02:23Yes, some numbers and I'll try to keep it very brief and very telling.
02:29During COVID, we were discussing European policies to support tourism.
02:34You know how bad it was.
02:36The sector that was hit the worst for the pandemic.
02:38And we thought, well, we're going to have revenge tourism after this.
02:41And now it's just going to go down.
02:43And data only proved us wrong.
02:46Everybody was wrong.
02:47The European Union was wrong.
02:48The UN was wrong.
02:49We were all wrong about this.
02:50It keeps going up.
02:52Tourism is super strong.
02:542024 was the year where we skyrocketed.
02:57So we have had more tourists come into Europe in 2024 than before COVID.
03:03And I don't have the data for 2024 because we're still finalizing them.
03:07But in 2023, it was half a billion.
03:08And I want to estimate almost a billion tourists averaged for 2024, certainly because of the Olympics.
03:16But in any case, it's a massive amount of travelers coming to Europe.
03:21Imagine the revenue that they generated.
03:24So it's going really strong.
03:26And there's some trends attached to it.
03:28What we know up until now, okay, so first of all, it's going really strong to the point that up
03:32until now,
03:33what we know is that we're going up above the 2024 levels.
03:38Okay, so that growth, that trajectory is continuing.
03:40The first half of this year is 5% up to what it was a year ago.
03:44The trends attached to it are interesting.
03:46Europe is the number one destination in the world.
03:49But 72% of people, 70% of those travelers, it could be almost 80.
03:55I could be wrong.
03:56Let's keep it to 70, are Europeans.
03:58So we travel domestically.
04:02And it'd be nice to be more competitive.
04:04That's something I wanted to say.
04:06Okay, so that's our European perspective, that high-level pan-European perspective.
04:12Let's go to you, Anson.
04:14And from this very small group travel level, what are you seeing and how tourism has changed?
04:20Have you got any data to share with us?
04:21Yes, I can speak from the perspective of what we are seeing at Intrepid Travel.
04:26People are choosing cooler destinations.
04:30You mean as in like temperature?
04:31As in temperature-wise cooler.
04:33Well, there might be cooler in different aspects as well.
04:37Especially for the peak summer months, we've seen, for example, Iceland has gone up by 22%.
04:42Scandinavian countries, especially Norway, over 30% this year.
04:45People are also choosing smaller, relatively lesser-known destinations like places like Andorra, Serbia, Romania, are really doing well for
04:58us.
04:58And also Baltic countries, over 40% increase for this year, together with the cooler destination trend, I assume.
05:04Another thing we are seeing is the shift to when people choose to travel.
05:11Over 55% of our bookings to the popular destinations of Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal, Croatia,
05:19are now for the shoulder season months of April, May, September, October.
05:24So these four months are the highest volume months for us in Europe, for Intrepid.
05:29And also, very interestingly, the very peak summer months of July and August, places like, for example, Italy,
05:37we've seen a significant, over 70% drop for these months, also Croatia,
05:42and almost a 200% increase for the off-season, even winter travel to Greece, Croatia, Italy.
05:49So those are kind of interesting facts, I think.
05:52Okay, fantastic.
05:53So from Mila, although tourism is growing, what we do see is that it's changing.
05:59And climate temperature definitely seems to play into that.
06:02Now, our subject here is how tourism can be more sustainable.
06:06I'm going to get straight into that with you, Katrina.
06:09What is it that Omeo is doing out there from a transport and travel business perspective
06:13to help us travel more sustainably?
06:16Yeah, thanks.
06:17And thanks, Kristen, for having me.
06:19And thanks, everyone, for joining.
06:20It's something that Omeo is really thinking about.
06:24And what we see by combining different modes of travel and giving people the opportunity to choose, you know,
06:31how they want to link up their different travel modes, then, thank you.
06:37I hope you can all hear me now.
06:39What we're seeing is that there is a shift in consumer behavior.
06:43For example, I'm based in Barcelona.
06:46We know that the high-speed route between Madrid and Barcelona started a few years ago.
06:51And it's had so much success that it's driven prices down for consumers.
06:55And some airlines have actually stopped flying that route.
06:59And so what we're seeing is a huge change in consumer behavior.
07:04And, you know, whether that is a more aware consumer.
07:07You know, we're all much more aware right now of transport and the emissions that can come with it.
07:13But also by providing different options of routes makes people aware that they can take a different mode.
07:19And something that Omeo as a company does now is if you want to compare different modes per route,
07:26you can have three options or four options because we also do ferry.
07:29But you mainly have sort of air, rail, and bus.
07:33And then you can see the emissions for your journey for each mode.
07:37So you could also make, you know, an informed decision that way,
07:41which we're hoping helps people make the choices that work best for them and for the environment as well.
07:48Definitely.
07:49That data and the information, when we're out there making these bookings,
07:52helping us to understand the impact of if we take a train, if we take a train and a bus,
07:57that's brilliant in terms of helping us become more sustainable.
08:01And so how about from your perspective,
08:03thinking about the actual tourism industry and the ecosystem then,
08:08because it's not just the tour operators.
08:10How can we make tourism more sustainable from that perspective?
08:15Intrepid has been the global leader in sustainable and responsible travel for over 35 years.
08:21And the roots of the style of travel we do is really embedded in embracing and celebrating
08:27and empowering local communities.
08:30So when we design a travel product, there are three factors that we consider.
08:37Where we travel, how we travel, and when we travel.
08:42The where, all of us, when planning our holiday,
08:45we could choose a destination that's maybe lesser known or emerging destination.
08:50And if we do choose to go to these very popular, high-demand destinations,
08:56maybe try to stay longer and make sure that you venture out of the historic center
09:01and the main site and see a little bit more of the destination.
09:05The how we travel part, for us, it's the small groups.
09:09It's small groups accompanied by a local tour leader.
09:12So this gives people the opportunity to connect,
09:16to form meaningful connections with each other,
09:18with the community, with the destination visited.
09:21They can spend time talking with the people they meet along the way
09:24on the public transport or in the market.
09:26And they can learn what really, truly matters to the local people
09:30in the place where they are visiting.
09:32And then, of course, public transport.
09:34You mentioned our trips do travel with public transport,
09:37but it's not only for us in general.
09:40Europe has an amazing public transportation system,
09:43not only trains connecting destinations,
09:45but also in the destination.
09:47It's affordable, accessible, convenient.
09:51So not only good for environment, but from my personal perspective,
09:55it's also adding to the journey and experience.
09:59So the small groups, the public transport.
10:02And then when we travel, I already talked about the shift
10:04of the time when people choose to travel.
10:08I believe that tour operators have a very big opportunity
10:14to influence consumer behavior by offering better deals,
10:19better packages, more departures, more options
10:21for the quieter months of the year.
10:24Not only travel in high season or peak season is harder
10:28and kind of overcrowded and more complicated,
10:32it is also more expensive.
10:33So it's a win-win in our eyes.
10:38Definitely.
10:39And we see pushbacks from many cities today.
10:42You know, Barcelona or Venice,
10:44the influx of crowds and crowds of tourists.
10:47But what you're talking about is having experiences
10:50that bring the tourists and the people
10:53who are living in these cities closer together.
10:55Now, Misa, we might not think about policies
10:59when we're thinking about vacation.
11:01Okay.
11:02So how can policies and the European Commission
11:05help make tourism become more sustainable?
11:09Look, no, you don't think about European Commission,
11:12but we do work on tourism.
11:15The European Commission works on everything, everything.
11:17And yes, we do tourism.
11:19We don't regulate tourism,
11:21but we can regulate climate action and transport
11:25and digital economy, health, up to a point, just a little bit.
11:30So, I mean, like energy, a lot of this tourism is impacted.
11:35But what we do, and we work on tourism and on tourism,
11:39what we can leverage, the fact that the European Commission
11:42has the power of collecting people around the table
11:48and getting them to talk.
11:50And tourism is fragmented.
11:51So if you can get people to talk,
11:53you can get them to sit around and work in the same direction,
11:56that can cause massive changes and massive impacts.
11:59And that's what we do.
12:00And we're going to have a strategy for that coming up next year.
12:04We're consulting everyone.
12:05So if you want to be consulted,
12:06if you want to tell us what to write in the strategies,
12:08that is now.
12:09Okay, I'm going to come to you
12:10because we want to hear more about that in a minute.
12:12But I want to hear an example from you
12:14of how coming together around the table,
12:17bringing these fragmented markets,
12:18has actually done something.
12:20Maybe, for example, train tickets.
12:21I think when you mentioned train tickets.
12:24That's something that is coming up.
12:26It's a little different, though,
12:28because that is where we can actually regulate what goes on.
12:32So let me give a very, very basic example.
12:35The roaming regulation.
12:37It's, what, 13, 12 years old maybe now?
12:40But, I mean, if you're in Paris today
12:42and you're not French
12:43and you can use your phone just as you would in Zagreb,
12:48that is because we, you know,
12:51there was a EU regulation making it possible.
12:53How that worked?
12:55European Commission drafted something,
12:57put it on the table,
12:58governments came one side
12:59and European Parliament came on the other side.
13:01They started negotiating.
13:03Ah, this is ambitious.
13:04This is not ambitious enough.
13:05And then, bang, we had the legislation.
13:07It takes ages.
13:09But when it happens,
13:10it affects the biggest market of consumers
13:13and travellers in the world.
13:15Okay, that's a great example of fact.
13:17Whether we're travelling to see friends,
13:19family for work or vacation,
13:21how here in Europe things are coming together.
13:24What I do want to do now
13:26is think about the actual design of travel.
13:30So, things that maybe as travellers we're not aware of,
13:33but platforms like Omeo out there are working on.
13:36What are the things that you're taking into account?
13:41And things that we need to be aware of
13:43and careful about when designing sustainable travel.
13:46Katrina, I'm looking at you to...
13:48Because sometimes we can do these things
13:51and think we're doing it for the right reasons,
13:53but then actually see that there's maybe some fallout.
13:56So, thinking about comparisons and bookings online,
13:59what are the things that you're doing out there
14:01to make sure that travel is being designed sustainably?
14:06Yeah, I think what you say about making sure
14:09that the options are there for people to choose from
14:11is really important.
14:12And that's what Omeo and other travel platforms seek to do.
14:17And I think when we're talking about design of travel,
14:21I think we also need to think about what's there.
14:23What's already there that maybe we don't know about, right?
14:25You know, your normal consumer,
14:27or sorry, your layperson consumer probably isn't aware of.
14:30And I think just touching on what Misa said
14:32about regulation in travel,
14:34that is something that the EU does work on
14:36and we're very appreciative
14:38and very happy to collaborate in that process
14:41because things like there's a regulation coming up
14:44for multimodal travel, also sort of...
14:47What does that mean, multimodal travel,
14:50for everyone in the audience?
14:51Well, really, it is what Omeo does, right?
14:54So if you want to go, I don't know,
14:56say from Budapest to Porto, how are you going to do it?
14:59Are you going to take some flights, some trains, some buses,
15:02some public transport as well among the mix?
15:05Like, how are you going to plan your journey,
15:07especially if you don't know all of the national operators
15:12within each country?
15:14So the idea is that you could get from one place to another
15:16across Europe seamlessly.
15:19Obviously, Omeo is at a global level,
15:20but thinking of EU here, you know,
15:22being able to do those journeys seamlessly
15:24as an EU consumer, much like roaming.
15:26If you can roam in any EU country,
15:30plus,
15:33seamlessly,
15:34then the idea is that you should also be able to travel
15:36in that way.
15:37But if you don't know what's there,
15:39how are you going to do that?
15:40And there's a lot of silos in the way that travel is booked.
15:44And there are a lot of options that maybe we're not aware of.
15:47And maybe it'd be cool to take a ferry from,
15:49you know,
15:50Croatia to Italy,
15:51for example,
15:52that we just don't know exists.
15:54So it's about,
15:55it's about knowing what options are there
15:57and having more competition as well.
16:00So we work very closely with our competitors
16:02because we believe that competition is a good thing,
16:04not just,
16:05you know,
16:05for business growth,
16:06but also for consumers,
16:07drives down prices,
16:09grows demand as well.
16:11And so,
16:12yeah,
16:12we're really,
16:13we're really happy to see that the EU is,
16:15is zoned in on this
16:16and taking some steps forward.
16:18By the end of this year.
16:19End of this year.
16:20Exactly.
16:21The little plug there.
16:22There's going to be,
16:23hopefully,
16:23yes,
16:24two,
16:24two regulation,
16:25or a package,
16:26two part,
16:26two,
16:26yeah,
16:27two regulations proposed by the end of this year
16:28that will help regulate multimodal travel
16:30and also focusing on rail
16:32and competition in rail.
16:34and then there's a third part
16:36that's passenger rights as well,
16:38rail passenger rights
16:38that's going to go along with that.
16:40All right.
16:41So we're going to dig into that
16:42in a little bit as well.
16:42But what I'm hearing from you here
16:44is that it's in fact
16:45access to this information then
16:47to be able to build up your travel
16:50using the trains,
16:51the buses,
16:52the ferries,
16:52everything out there.
16:53So not just from a sustainability,
16:55what's my carbon footprint
16:57or my CO2 emissions
16:58when I'm doing this,
16:59but also as such from a discovery
17:01and adventure perspective for travel.
17:04Yeah.
17:04So totally.
17:05And that's the thing.
17:06I think when you're a travel platform,
17:08you're not operating the services.
17:10So,
17:11you know,
17:11we're not going to tell someone
17:13you should do this
17:14or you should do that.
17:15It's extremely patronizing.
17:16We're going to say,
17:17here are the options you choose
17:18and we'll help you discover and book.
17:22Okay.
17:22So we're going to come,
17:23everyone's keen to talk about
17:25the European Commission
17:25and your policies.
17:26Going to come to you in a second,
17:27Lisa.
17:28Okay.
17:29I'm going to go first to Anse here
17:31and think about,
17:32yeah,
17:32what are some of the things
17:33for you then at Intrepid Travel
17:35to be aware of?
17:37The things that when you're designing
17:39these things
17:39that you want to make sure
17:41that you're doing
17:42or not doing
17:43to make sure
17:44that it is a truly sustainable
17:46travel experience.
17:47So first,
17:49I think that we need to say
17:51that,
17:51you know,
17:52an environmental impact
17:53is not the only impact
17:56to consider.
17:57It is very important,
17:59but in the same time,
17:59there are other aspects
18:00to consider,
18:01like local communities,
18:04the social and economical impact
18:05that travel has.
18:07Travel has the power
18:09to really lift communities up
18:11to create meaningful wealth distribution,
18:13employment,
18:14and all the benefits
18:15to everyone involved
18:17and it has the power
18:19to create change
18:20in the destination.
18:21So when we are designing
18:24the product,
18:24we are looking at
18:25the whole local ecosystem
18:27as a whole.
18:28For example,
18:29on our Paris to Rome
18:31by rail trip,
18:33we visit,
18:34when we get to Rome,
18:36we visit our non-for-profit
18:38Intrepid Foundation partner there,
18:40a cooperative with Caraggio
18:41outside of Rome,
18:43on outskirts of Rome.
18:44so we get our group
18:45out of the crowded city
18:46and show them
18:46a little bit more
18:47of the destination.
18:48Or on our Central Europe trip,
18:50when we go through
18:51main cities and stay there,
18:52of course,
18:53Krakow, Prague, Budapest,
18:54but we ensure
18:55that we are also staying
18:56overnight
18:57and spending time
18:58in smaller places
18:59like Olomoc
18:59in Czech Republic
19:00or Bejanska Stavnica
19:02in Slovakia.
19:03This way,
19:04spending more time
19:05in the destination.
19:06Another small
19:07but impactful thing
19:08that we do
19:09and everyone should consider,
19:11also on their private travel,
19:14timing your visits
19:15to these main sites.
19:17You want to see
19:17the Dubrovnik city walls.
19:19Of course,
19:19you are there to see them
19:20but how about you
19:22consider what time
19:23of the day you go.
19:24We bring our groups
19:25just before the last
19:26entrance of the day
19:27so it's less crowded,
19:29weather is better,
19:30it's not so hot
19:31and it's beautiful
19:32for photography
19:33at that time of day.
19:34Or the same
19:34in Acropolis in Greece,
19:36first entrance,
19:378 a.m.,
19:38the same reasons.
19:40So these kind of
19:40small little considerations
19:42you can look on Google,
19:43when is the most crowded time,
19:45don't go then.
19:46Go before,
19:47after,
19:47in the early morning,
19:48these kind of things.
19:49And then,
19:50of course,
19:50the most important part
19:52for us
19:52and should be
19:53a most important consideration
19:55for everyone
19:56is supporting local economy.
19:58When you are
19:59making your holiday,
20:01your travel decisions,
20:03choose a small,
20:04independently owned
20:05hotel or guest house.
20:07Go and buy ingredients
20:09for your picnic
20:10in the green market.
20:11Go and shop for souvenirs
20:13in a small
20:13where the shopkeeper
20:14actually knows
20:15the craftsman
20:16that produced the souvenir.
20:17Or simple things
20:19as engage local guides
20:21when you are in a destination.
20:22You will spend some money,
20:24support the economy
20:25and you're going to get
20:26more information
20:27on the destination.
20:29So simple things,
20:30eat in a local restaurant
20:31that's run by family.
20:33So consider all of these
20:35little things and aspects.
20:37When it comes together,
20:38it leaves an impact.
20:39Brilliant.
20:40So great tips
20:41from Anse there on
20:42when we're thinking
20:43about sustainable travel,
20:44it's not just
20:45our carbon emissions,
20:46it's all the ways
20:47in which we can interact
20:48in economic,
20:50environmental,
20:51societal
20:51and especially
20:52with that local community.
20:54Right,
20:54from local back up
20:56to pan-European,
20:57Misa,
20:57I'm coming to you
20:57to talk about
20:58this strategy
20:59that you're building up then.
21:01Yes.
21:01So tell us
21:02what's going on,
21:03what is it there for
21:05and how is it actually
21:06going to be helping us
21:07design more sustainable travel?
21:10So the strategy
21:11will be called
21:12European Strategy
21:12for Sustainable Tourism.
21:14It's the first
21:15in at least 10 years
21:16and I imagine
21:18it'll stay with us
21:19for at least
21:20another 10 years.
21:21So it's exciting
21:22this year
21:23to talk about
21:24the service conversation
21:25because we need
21:26to write that strategy
21:27now,
21:28well between now
21:29and December
21:30because we want
21:30to adopt it
21:31in spring next year.
21:33So we have launched
21:35a consultation,
21:37a survey,
21:37that's how we operate.
21:39We can't,
21:39we could
21:40get up one morning
21:41and start drafting it,
21:42it's 15 pages,
21:43it doesn't take very long
21:44but we want to make sure
21:46that this is a strategy
21:47that is inclusive
21:49of the needs
21:50of the tourism sector.
21:52we call them stakeholders,
21:53I tend to always use
21:54this jargon
21:55and I'm sorry
21:55but the point is
21:56so we have a consultation
21:58out there
21:59with questions
22:00and if you're interested
22:01in taking part
22:02catch me afterwards
22:03and I'll give you
22:05my email
22:05so that I,
22:06you know,
22:06we can figure it out.
22:07I don't think
22:08you want to contribute
22:09to the strategy.
22:10I'll be right there
22:11and I'm very easy
22:12to find also on Google,
22:14we're all very easy
22:15to find.
22:15Not this survey,
22:17sadly,
22:17I tried to Google
22:18the name of it
22:18and it didn't work out.
22:20Anyway,
22:21it's fine.
22:22I can pass it on.
22:23The point of this
22:24is what we want to do
22:26is we want to write
22:28a strategy
22:28that drives
22:29or sets up
22:30and then delivers
22:31a European model
22:33for tourism
22:34that is sustainable
22:35meaning that
22:36it works
22:37for the land,
22:39for the territory,
22:40for the climate adaptation
22:42because now
22:43sadly we have to talk
22:44about climate adaptation
22:45and not so much
22:46about climate flight
22:48because it's there
22:49but it also works
22:51for the communities
22:52and I think
22:52everything that you said
22:54sounds like good practices
22:55to me
22:55and it'd be great
22:56to have that
22:57as a European template
22:58or recommendations
23:00or anything
23:00that we can put out
23:01that make it more visible.
23:03So that's what
23:05we want to do
23:05and so what we want
23:07to do is
23:09working towards
23:10a model
23:11for tourism
23:12at a European level
23:13that is sustainable
23:13economically,
23:15environmentally
23:16and socially
23:16and it is connected
23:18to everything
23:19that we do
23:19that will have
23:20an impact on tourism
23:21and I mentioned
23:21some bits
23:22and you know
23:23we've been
23:24kind of touching
23:25upon the ticketing
23:27and multi-model
23:28travelling aspect
23:29but there's so much
23:30more that happens
23:31and that our operators
23:33our small
23:34medium enterprises
23:35don't know
23:36happens at European level
23:38and it's rules
23:38that they need to follow
23:40and it's burdensome
23:41we want to make sure
23:42that all that
23:43is a lot easier
23:44to grasp.
23:45Yeah and I think
23:46when we were chatting
23:47before this
23:47you mentioned
23:48even things like
23:49regenerating land
23:50is potentially
23:51part of this, right?
23:52We have a strategy
23:52for that
23:53but that's the thing
23:53this is
23:54we have a whole law
23:56about restoration
23:57and nature restoration
23:58it's been
23:59it's been in the pipeline
24:00since for at least
24:02a year
24:02and Europe
24:04is the first region
24:05to have such an
24:06ambition law
24:06now I didn't draft it
24:08I don't know the details
24:09but this is a body
24:10of obligations
24:11for all our governments
24:13to recuperate
24:15up to 70%
24:16and then 90%
24:17of degraded ecosystems
24:19so yes
24:20it's a biodiversity strategy
24:21it's not a tourism strategy
24:22but obviously
24:24we want to keep an eye
24:25on this
24:26certainly
24:26with more and more
24:27of us living in cities
24:28maybe on our vacation
24:29we want to get out there
24:30into nature
24:31but also in the cities
24:32everything that's ecosystems
24:33in the city also
24:34it encompasses everything
24:36and something else
24:37with which I want to conclude
24:38that has to do with
24:40that should make us all
24:41proud to be Europeans
24:42because of the Green Deal
24:44Europe is now
24:46the first region
24:47in the world
24:48that has made
24:49producing greenhouse gases
24:51expensive
24:52so up until the Green Deal
24:54you produce gases
24:56it was for free
24:57polluting the atmosphere
24:58was free
24:59but now
25:00more and more
25:01you're going to have
25:01to pay money for it
25:02you're going to have
25:03to buy a quarter for it
25:04and that is
25:05difficult to explain
25:07a bit technical
25:08doesn't really hit the press
25:10but if you think about it
25:11it is huge
25:12so it's not just
25:13the incentives
25:14it's also the measures
25:15to change behaviours
25:16now I want to talk
25:17about changing behaviours
25:18because in fact
25:19we talked about that
25:20right at the very beginning
25:21when you were telling us
25:22in terms of data
25:23how people are moving around
25:25and choosing their tourist
25:26destinations differently
25:27we know that social media
25:30is changing consumer habits
25:32and it's influencing
25:34where we go
25:35what we do
25:37everyone's seen
25:38even here in Paris
25:39the queues outside
25:40the bakeries
25:41or the trending stores
25:42wherever they are
25:43I want the three of you
25:46to think about
25:46what is it that you think
25:48the change in tourism
25:50is going to be
25:51driven by social media
25:52and consumer habits
25:54over the next
25:55three to five years
25:56what is it going to look like
25:57do you think Katrina
25:59yeah I mean
26:00social media
26:02it's difficult for me
26:03to imagine
26:04what it'll look like
26:05in five years
26:05because if you'd asked me
26:06five years ago
26:07what it would look like today
26:08I probably wouldn't have
26:09had the right answer
26:11but what we do know
26:12is it's going to keep growing
26:13the younger generations
26:15are you know
26:16more and more
26:17in tune with social media
26:18we know that that's where
26:19you know how people
26:20look for destinations
26:22that's how they get inspired
26:23for destinations as well
26:25and one thing that
26:26you know as a company
26:27that we do
26:28is also using social media
26:29in the wider sense
26:31sometimes to actually
26:32enable bookings
26:33so in some markets
26:35like Brazil
26:36or you know
26:36non-European
26:38things like WhatsApp
26:39are predominant
26:41for booking travel
26:42and so we need to make sure
26:44that you know
26:44we're up to date
26:45with all of that as well
26:46and that our you know
26:46customer service
26:47is also available
26:49on the channels
26:51that people are using
26:52for social media
26:53so
26:55yeah I think
26:56there's definitely
26:56more to come
26:57and we need to stay
26:58on the ball
26:58so WhatsApp
26:59not just in terms
27:00of influencing
27:01but also being a channel
27:03to help people
27:03organize and book
27:05Ansi
27:06how about yourself?
27:08well I have to agree
27:09that of course
27:10social media
27:11is playing
27:11an increasingly
27:12important role
27:14in influencing
27:15where people
27:15choose to travel to
27:18people are after
27:19like authentic
27:20user generated
27:22content
27:22and influencer
27:24recommendations
27:25and it's becoming
27:26because people want
27:27direct interaction
27:28they want transparency
27:29shared values
27:30and that's why
27:31they follow influencers
27:32so we as a company
27:33work more and more
27:34with influencers
27:35to showcase
27:36our destinations
27:37our experiences
27:38and our style
27:39of travel
27:39in general
27:41for future
27:42we believe
27:43that
27:44people will be
27:45after like
27:46purpose driven
27:47and regenerative
27:49tourism
27:50that is going to be
27:51a big thing
27:52and people will make
27:55decisions
27:55and choose
27:56immersive experiences
27:57based on what's
27:58good for people
27:59and planet
28:00they will consider
28:01this
28:02like climate
28:03conscious decisions
28:04such as flight free
28:05itineraries
28:06and checking the
28:07carbon labels
28:08on your trip
28:08or on transportation
28:09you're going to use
28:10is going to become
28:12increasingly more
28:13important
28:13so in general
28:14we believe that
28:15you know
28:16the trends are positive
28:17people will consider
28:19the economic
28:20social
28:20and environmental
28:22impact
28:23and footprint
28:24when they make
28:25travel decisions
28:26okay
28:27so this is quite
28:27interesting
28:28because usually
28:29we think
28:29social media
28:30impacts on travel
28:31we think
28:32are negative
28:33but in fact
28:33what I'm hearing
28:34from both of you
28:35is that there are
28:36positives out there
28:37so what's that
28:38being used
28:39but then also
28:40as you mentioned
28:40it's using the
28:41influencers
28:42but using them
28:43in the right way
28:43what they show
28:44what they're
28:45not showing
28:46okay
28:48yeah
28:48no
28:48just
28:49to reiterate
28:50what you just said
28:51social media
28:52is a tool
28:53you know
28:53like many other tools
28:54and it can
28:55it can be used
28:56for good
28:58as well
28:58so I think
28:59that's also
29:00great that we're
29:01focusing on that
29:02as well
29:03Misa from a
29:04European Commission
29:05perspective
29:05next three to five years
29:07how is it looking
29:08from where you're set
29:10I can see
29:11that you're not
29:11asking me about
29:12social media
29:13because the European Union
29:14is not very modern
29:16which is fair
29:17which is fair enough
29:17but we're trying
29:18to change that
29:19no
29:20I don't know
29:21five to ten years
29:22honestly
29:22very difficult to tell
29:24we will have a strategy
29:25for tourism
29:25that's for sure
29:28and
29:29I can tell you
29:29for the next five years
29:30what's going to happen
29:31at the European level
29:32because the next commission
29:33is staying for the next five years
29:35so I can go there
29:36but don't go away
29:38from social media
29:39then
29:39come to this
29:39how are you going to be
29:41using social media
29:42to help
29:43drive sustainable tourism
29:45is there a place for it
29:46there's certainly a place
29:48a place for it
29:49and I'm hoping
29:50they'll tell us
29:51how we can
29:52how we can work together
29:54and that's what
29:55the consultation's for
29:56if I had all the answers
29:58but I don't
29:59so you're going to be
30:00crowdsourcing
30:01via social media
30:02I truly hope so
30:04I truly hope we can reach that
30:05what the problem
30:06we've always had
30:08and I am being
30:09very transparent here
30:11is
30:11at European level
30:13when we talk to
30:14when we do tourism
30:15we only talk to
30:16the tourism operators
30:18and that's great
30:19because you guys
30:20do tourism
30:21and you can tell us
30:22what works
30:22and what doesn't
30:23but we never talk
30:24to the travellers
30:25and to the influencers
30:27who are travellers
30:30in the end
30:30we're all travellers
30:32but we don't talk
30:32to the citizens
30:33so that shift
30:35needs to happen
30:36in our communication style
30:38when it comes to
30:39tourism policies
30:40and what we're trying
30:41we'll try to make it happen
30:42through this strategy
30:44how that's gonna
30:45play out
30:47ask me
30:48next year
30:49Viva Tech
30:50to Found26
30:50after we publish this
30:52and hopefully
30:52I'll have more
30:53details for you
30:54but I'm guessing
30:55there's also a way
30:56there not just
30:56in terms of
30:57crowdsourcing in
30:58for your strategy
30:59but also communicating
31:00out to
31:01the local
31:02restaurants
31:03and enterprises
31:05and businesses
31:06all those SMEs
31:07that you say
31:08that are affected
31:09that can
31:10so that they can
31:11integrate better
31:12into this
31:12and work better
31:13towards sustainable travel
31:14yeah off the top
31:15of my head
31:15I would say
31:16those small villages
31:17that nobody visits
31:20because you go to Rome
31:21but you don't go
31:21to the late in year Rome
31:23I mean
31:23we can reach
31:25those destinations
31:26also through
31:28better marketing
31:29better communication
31:30better communication
31:31is that the word
31:32sorry I'm not very
31:33strong on this one
31:33sorry Misa
31:34can I just add
31:35a suggestion
31:36you can use
31:37tour operators
31:38to reach these
31:39small businesses
31:40I didn't know
31:40that
31:41because we have
31:42the direct contact
31:43so here you go
31:45no I would also add
31:46I think Misa's
31:47being very humble
31:47I think
31:49the EU
31:50has come a long way
31:51in its social media
31:52offering
31:53when I used to work there
31:5415 years ago
31:55or something
31:55it was obviously
31:56non-existent
31:57but I have seen
31:58in recent years
31:59a lot more
32:00communication
32:01and an example
32:03a few years ago
32:04I saw
32:05a social media
32:07post about
32:07Interrail
32:08which is a
32:08really great
32:10European success
32:11and a great way
32:12to travel sustainably
32:13across Europe
32:14and a lot of people
32:15don't know
32:15how affordable it is
32:17especially for
32:18I think it's
32:18people who
32:19it's the year
32:20you turn 18
32:22it's very
32:22very affordable
32:24okay hang on a second
32:25quick stop there
32:26because I want to ask
32:27how many of you
32:28are over 18
32:30how many of you
32:31would love
32:32Interrail passes
32:32to be available
32:33for those over 18
32:35there you go
32:36just crowdsource
32:37the solution
32:38done done
32:39strategies written
32:41there we go
32:41there you go
32:42but this is exactly
32:43the kind of thing
32:43that we can do
32:44at European level
32:45and it could have
32:47potential impact
32:48okay
32:49we've got
32:50seven minutes left
32:51on the clock here
32:52we're going to continue
32:52to do this
32:53because I want
32:54to hear from you
32:54more examples
32:56of where
32:56policy
32:58technology
32:58platforms
32:59data
33:00new habits
33:01and practices
33:02are making
33:03this work
33:04where we've managed
33:05to find the balance
33:06between tourism
33:08and the local economy
33:10and the environment
33:11where is it being done
33:13and what else more
33:15can we done
33:16so Katrina
33:17you just mentioned
33:18the Interrail passes
33:20what else has been done
33:21out there
33:22and do you think
33:23that we can maybe
33:24do more of
33:26I think that's
33:27probably more
33:28a question
33:29for France
33:30I'd say
33:30I think that
33:31Interrail
33:32is definitely
33:33a prime example
33:34and as I was going
33:36to say
33:36my cousin
33:37was turning 18
33:38and then actually
33:39got the pass
33:39and then managed
33:40to Interrail
33:41across Europe
33:42so I think
33:43strategies like that
33:45and I've forgotten
33:45the question
33:46so
33:47I was going to say
33:47sort of
33:48I remember
33:48when we were chatting
33:49beforehand
33:49you mentioned
33:50sort of like
33:51the things like
33:52consumers taking
33:53the cheapest
33:54and the easiest
33:54path
33:55and that used
33:55to be Ryanair
33:57and now it's not
33:58so
34:00no of course
34:00I think
34:01yeah
34:02consumers are always
34:03going to do
34:03what's easiest
34:03for them
34:04and what's most
34:04convenient
34:05and that's
34:05something that
34:06we aren't
34:06going to be
34:07able to change
34:07because you know
34:08as a consumer
34:10that's what
34:10I'll do as well
34:11and I think
34:11yeah the example
34:12I was giving
34:12is
34:13so my parents
34:14were Scottish
34:14but I was born
34:15and raised
34:15in Luxembourg
34:16which meant
34:17I was being born
34:18in the 80s
34:18we used to travel
34:19back
34:19from
34:20we used to drive
34:21from Luxembourg
34:22to Scotland
34:22three times a year
34:23that is a horrendous
34:24journey
34:25three kids in the car
34:26we weren't allowed
34:27to talk
34:28several vomits
34:29you know
34:29just it was
34:30horrendous
34:32and so when
34:33Ryanair did appear
34:34on the scene
34:34it was like
34:35great
34:35we can fly
34:36I mean the airport
34:37was like
34:38Prestwick airport
34:39really not anywhere
34:40not super close
34:41to Glasgow
34:42where we were going
34:42but
34:43it made things
34:44a lot easier
34:45and that meant
34:47that then that option
34:47being available to us
34:48we would take it
34:49I'm not saying
34:49that's the best option
34:51but knowing that
34:52there's that option
34:52available
34:53or knowing what
34:54options are available
34:54now you know
34:55you could probably
34:56do it in the train
34:56there's a lot
34:58things have come
34:58a long way as well
34:59on trains since then
35:01on faster trains
35:03so
35:05see I think
35:05we need to also
35:06adapt
35:06and be aware
35:08of you know
35:08if we make things
35:09easier
35:09people are going
35:10to do it
35:10okay
35:10so that's it
35:11if we make it easier
35:12people are going
35:13to do it
35:14and I think
35:14that's key to this
35:15thank you so much
35:16for that
35:17Ansi coming across
35:18to you
35:18to yourself
35:19what's your sort
35:20of things that
35:21you found
35:21examples of
35:22where it's
35:24being
35:24where it's working
35:25between travelers
35:27locals
35:27the environment
35:29what's going on
35:29out there
35:30sure
35:30I mean
35:31I have to
35:31agree with
35:32the
35:32Miss
35:33she was saying
35:34that Europe
35:34is the
35:35most popular
35:36destination
35:37in the world
35:37I believe
35:38that it is
35:38also
35:38one of
35:39if not
35:40the most
35:40sustainable
35:41destination
35:41in the world
35:42already
35:42we have
35:44many individual
35:45European countries
35:46topping different
35:47sustainability
35:48practice lists
35:49and then we
35:50have cities
35:50like for example
35:51Copenhagen
35:52that is
35:53leading the way
35:54with their
35:55sustainable
35:55approach
35:56to like
35:57everything
35:57living
35:58and not only
35:59travel
35:59things like
36:00good biking
36:02infrastructure
36:03green
36:03powered
36:04energy
36:05powered
36:06public
36:06transportation
36:07system
36:07and then
36:08smart
36:09programs
36:10like
36:11CopenPay
36:11they launched
36:13this program
36:13last year
36:14which rewards
36:14people for
36:15making sustainable
36:16choices
36:16in Copenhagen
36:18CopenPay
36:19it's a
36:20rewards program
36:21you earn
36:23points by
36:23let's say
36:24you arrive by
36:24train
36:24or with
36:25electric car
36:26you rent a
36:26bike
36:26you take
36:27a public
36:27transport
36:28even
36:28pick up
36:28litter
36:29and then
36:29also
36:30venture
36:30out of
36:31the city
36:31center
36:31if you
36:32go to
36:32further
36:32neighborhoods
36:33outside
36:33you earn
36:34points
36:35which you
36:35can then
36:35claim back
36:36as
36:36discounts
36:37or even
36:37free meals
36:38or drinks
36:38with a
36:39view
36:39and these
36:39kind of
36:39things
36:40last year
36:40it was so
36:41successful
36:41they have
36:42brought it
36:42back
36:42this year
36:43triple the
36:44size
36:44and they're
36:45talking with
36:45more than
36:46100 different
36:47destinations
36:47to try to
36:48help them
36:48implement
36:48this approach
36:49as well
36:50so that's
36:50a great
36:50example
36:51or
36:51Amsterdam
36:53launched
36:53their
36:54sustainable
36:55visitor
36:55economy
36:56strategy
36:56for this
36:57year
36:57for their
36:58750th
36:58anniversary
36:59or small
37:00countries
37:00like Slovenia
37:01for example
37:01that has
37:02built a
37:02very good
37:05brand
37:05on their
37:06approach
37:06for promoting
37:07nature
37:08based
37:08tourism
37:09investing
37:10in infrastructure
37:10for cycling
37:11cycling routes
37:13these kind
37:13of things
37:13also supporting
37:14small local
37:16tourism businesses
37:17and then there
37:18are hundreds
37:19and thousands
37:20of small
37:21businesses
37:22across the
37:23continent
37:23that are doing
37:24amazing things
37:25individually
37:27just as an
37:28example
37:28our sailing
37:29boat operator
37:30in Greece
37:31installed
37:31water filter
37:32system
37:33on their
37:33boats
37:34last year
37:34which
37:34now
37:35is a
37:35small
37:36simple
37:36thing
37:36that helps
37:37us save
37:37up to
37:383,000
37:38plastic
37:38bottles
37:39per season
37:39because people
37:40don't need
37:40to buy
37:41them
37:41or a
37:42local
37:43guide
37:43in Split
37:43in Croatia
37:45Mirjana
37:45that we
37:46work with
37:46who
37:47designs
37:48her tours
37:48to go
37:49out of
37:49the historic
37:50center
37:50and involve
37:51the local
37:51community
37:52in the
37:52tour
37:53as well
37:53these
37:54small
37:54little
37:54things
37:55and
37:55there's
37:56hundreds
37:56and thousands
37:57of examples
37:57I'm sure
37:58you've got
37:58a long
37:59list
37:59here
37:59but what
37:59I'm
38:00picking up
38:00from this
38:00is
38:01you say
38:01if you
38:01can make
38:02it
38:02faster
38:03and easier
38:03better
38:04people
38:04will go
38:04there
38:05but also
38:05if you
38:05can
38:05game
38:07incentivize
38:08then people
38:09will also
38:10go
38:10so
38:11Misa
38:12over to
38:12you
38:12examples
38:14of where
38:14we're
38:14making
38:15this
38:15work
38:15what's
38:16being
38:16done
38:16and
38:16how
38:17it's
38:17also
38:17if you
38:17make
38:18all
38:18of
38:18these
38:18visible
38:19somewhere
38:19European
38:20level
38:20then people
38:21can learn
38:21from others
38:22who maybe
38:23have fixed
38:24the problem
38:24already
38:25one example
38:26I wanted
38:27to raise
38:27is our
38:28green pioneer
38:28of smart
38:29tourism
38:29this year
38:30Benidorm
38:30in Spain
38:31I don't
38:31know if
38:31anyone knows
38:32Benidorm
38:33has been
38:33to Benidorm
38:34and they're
38:34amazing
38:35and I
38:36didn't know
38:36it before
38:37they won
38:38and when I
38:39went I
38:39realized
38:39that
38:40over
38:41tourism
38:42and crowds
38:43not a
38:43problem
38:43for Benidorm
38:44water
38:45massive issue
38:46because it
38:47never rains
38:47so because
38:49they build
38:49on skyscrapers
38:51they're not
38:51worried with
38:52either using
38:53up too much
38:54land or
38:55not having
38:55enough
38:56beds
38:57they do
38:57they have
38:58more than
38:58enough
38:58and they
38:59get flooded
39:01with tourists
39:02in summer
39:03and also
39:04of seasons
39:04they don't
39:05have seasonality
39:05but they
39:07have envisaged
39:08a scheme
39:09of
39:11water
39:15management
39:16that
39:16essentially
39:17saves
39:1896%
39:20of all
39:20water
39:20consumed
39:21by
39:21locals
39:22and by
39:23tourists
39:23that means
39:24that if
39:24you go
39:24on any
39:25hotel
39:25in Benidorm
39:26or you
39:27take a
39:27shower
39:27on the
39:28beach
39:28that water
39:29would have
39:29been used
39:30again
39:30and recycled
39:31and cleaned
39:32up for you
39:33to use
39:33over and
39:33over and
39:34over again
39:34their waste
39:35is 3%
39:35and I
39:36find this
39:37incredible
39:37because if
39:38you go
39:38to Benidorm
39:39it's such
39:39a clean
39:40city
39:40obviously
39:41you can
39:41see
39:42they're on
39:43the beach
39:43but it's
39:44clean
39:44they clean
39:45their roads
39:46with recycled
39:46water
39:47and it
39:48keeps going
39:48around and
39:49around
39:49because they
39:50don't have
39:50any water
39:50to waste
39:51wonderful
39:52so we
39:52have in
39:53just 45
39:54minutes
39:54we've
39:54covered
39:55how to
39:55make tourism
39:56more sustainable
39:57from a travel
39:58perspective
39:58in terms of
39:59getting around
40:00the transport
40:01the trains
40:01from in
40:02terms of
40:02visiting out
40:03there but
40:04also through
40:05policy
40:05which I
40:06love
40:07it's been
40:07a fantastic
40:08session
40:09I hope
40:09you've all
40:10come out
40:10of it
40:10with ideas
40:11thoughts
40:12but more
40:12than that
40:13data and
40:13information
40:14and references
40:14how to
40:15travel
40:16more
40:16sustainably
40:16this
40:17summer
40:17I want
40:18to thank
40:18you very
40:18much
40:19to
40:19Misa
40:20Katrina
40:20and Anne
40:21say
40:21thank you
40:22all
40:22thank you
40:23thank you
40:23thank you
40:25thank you
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