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AI Code of Conduct: Building the Rules for a Machine-Powered World
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00:25Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
00:31So we're going to start the next conference.
00:34If you may take your seats and let us enjoy with the minister the next session.
00:40So the next session is called AI Code of Conduct.
00:43It's a broad topic.
00:45We just addressed some of the aspects of that topic previously.
00:49Building the rules for a machine-powered world.
00:52And Clara Chapaz is with us.
00:55She's our minister in charge of AI for the French government and digital also.
01:00And Jiting Trasada, Minister of State for Ministry of Commerce and Industry
01:03and Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology from India.
01:07And we're very, very happy and proud to have you with us.
01:11Just a few words of introduction to our two panellists.
01:14Clara is an expert in artificial intelligence and digital.
01:19She has worked.
01:20She's very young.
01:21However, she has worked a lot in the digital world.
01:24And she's been one of the heralds of digital in this country, working for La French Tech.
01:31And so developing French technology, working abroad also in Asia.
01:35And then she came back to France and now she's our minister.
01:39And I think we feel very proud to have someone who knows about the private sector and also the public
01:43sector.
01:44And she's caring with a lot of energy, those topics which matter a lot to us.
01:50And you, sir, have been also involved in human rights and human actions and technology.
01:55And I think it's exactly the kind of topics that we want to address today because we really feel that
02:00India is an emerging superpower in terms of technology and AI.
02:06India has exported a lot of brains around the world which actually rule the main countries and the main companies
02:14in the United States.
02:15And I think India is the next country for AI.
02:19You're going to be hosting the next summit.
02:21And it's really important for us.
02:23So it's a kind of witness transformation between France and India.
02:29Yes.
02:30So just to introduce this panel today, we know that we have a revolution.
02:39This is pretty clear when you walk around DivaTech.
02:41AI is all over the place.
02:44Are there any rules for that revolution?
02:47How do we write this code of conduct?
02:50How can we make it possible to make compatible, actually, the progress and the rules?
02:57I think we deeply feel that we need to let the energies flow.
03:01We need to let the progress develop.
03:03But also very early on, we need to know what the new grammar is of this AI world.
03:09How do you write AI?
03:11How do you handle AI?
03:12How do you work with AI?
03:13And so for two ministers like you, I think it's really the main topic that you have to deal with.
03:19And I'm going to happily leave the floor to Clara to follow up on those remarks.
03:23Great.
03:24I'm very happy to be here talking about those topics together.
03:28And I'm glad to welcome you here in France.
03:31We met a few months ago back in Serbia.
03:33It was just before France actually hosted the AI Action Summit.
03:36And as it was mentioned by Pierre, India will host the next AI Summit.
03:43So it's a very special relationship between our two countries.
03:46Next year will also be the friendship year between France and India.
03:49And we feel very privileged to have you here to spend some time discussing AI because we are completely aligned
03:56in the way we want to build this technology.
03:58And we are very eager to reinforce the partnerships between our two countries.
04:02And hearing your remarks, and there's a lot we can say on this kind of code of conduct you mentioned,
04:10and I think you're hinting on regulation.
04:12But to me, the very first thing, when we're thinking about AI and how it's transforming everyone's life from scientists
04:18to their workers to us as citizens, the very first rule, if I may say, as a minister of AI,
04:26is how do we actually innovate?
04:28And that's probably going to be a surprise that when we talk about AI code of conduct, I talk first
04:33about innovation.
04:34But because if we don't have the tools, if we don't build the tools to not rely on a few
04:42handful of players, then there's no way we can actually shape this technology.
04:46And so that's why France has been very focused since 2018.
04:50We've had a national AI strategy to say, OK, we have all the ingredients.
04:56We have talents.
04:57We have nuclear energy.
04:58We have an amazing entrepreneurial ecosystem research.
05:02How do we bring everyone together?
05:04How do we reinvest into what makes us a great place for AI so that we can have some national
05:10champions?
05:11Because that's the only solid way we can actually then define the rules and have a say in how we
05:17want this technology to be built.
05:19And this is actually why when President Emmanuel Macron decided to host the AI Summit, the global AI Summit here
05:27in France, we called it the AI Action Summit.
05:29It might sound a little bit of a communication exercise or marketing exercise, but actually was very real because our
05:37message to the world was it's great.
05:39We've talked about safety in the first two global summits.
05:42And safety is obviously important.
05:44I'll come back to that, I'm sure, because if you're not creating the condition of trust and safety is part
05:50of this trust, then no one's going to adopt AI.
05:52And you're not going to get any progress out of it.
05:54But it's not the only thing government should think about.
05:58The very first thing they should think about is how do we get into the action?
06:01How do we innovate?
06:02And how do we do that collaboratively with like-minded countries so that we can build those alternatives?
06:07So, first answer to AI Code of Conduct is innovation and entrepreneurship.
06:12You're right.
06:13Everything starts with innovation.
06:14And I think your country is a real country of innovation.
06:18So, how would you describe this?
06:20Thank you.
06:21It's a pleasure to be here.
06:22And I'm glad to meet Excellency again after we met in Serbia last.
06:27And it's always a pleasure to take forward the relationship of India and France, starting from Prime Minister Modi to
06:34Macron.
06:35And now that we are talking of taking the summit to India next year, and it's some action to impact.
06:47And that's what India wants to see and focus on real-world solutions.
06:52And when we talk about innovation, of course, I call that India is the skill capital of the world.
06:59It's the talent capital of the world.
07:01And on one hand, we have to focus on innovation, which should only not be innovation, but governance, which is
07:10inclusive as well.
07:11So, the focus in India is about regulating, of course, but not stifling innovation.
07:18And, of course, with code, which is necessary, regulations are required because of the fact that it builds trust.
07:26And trust is a key component, like Her Excellency has said.
07:30And that's the way we are focusing in India.
07:33But the next summit, like which has been mentioned, it's a strategic shift from England to Korea to France to
07:42now to India,
07:44taking it to the developing world, where we want to see from the lens of the global south,
07:51the perspective, which is very different, multi-language, multi-lingual, you know, scarcity of resources at some areas.
08:01And even that the whole intent would be to ensure that the voice of global south is incorporated.
08:09And to put it, that we don't want the global south to be on the menu, but on the table,
08:18where they can co-create,
08:20where they have a stake and their solutions can be heard.
08:24And that's what India tends to do and intends to take this mission forward.
08:30Of course, we want to balance it right between regulation and innovation.
08:34We don't want to over-regulate.
08:36We want to use it in a fashion where you supply the brakes if and when needed.
08:42Otherwise, you let it go on its own speed.
08:46Yes, I think I was reading, researching this conference.
08:51There's a mission which was allocated more than $1 billion to fund efforts in the AI world over five years.
08:59The two main growths are economic growth and social inclusion, the two goals that you have.
09:06But already, India is among the top five countries that create patents in the AI world.
09:14So India is already creating a lot of IP, intellectual property, and will create even more in the future.
09:20So hearing both of you, I feel that the first thing is innovation.
09:25You need to unleash innovation as much as you can.
09:28And maybe the second thing, and I would like to hear you on that, is education.
09:33How do you educate people in huge countries like yours, smaller countries like ours?
09:38How do you educate people to the new rules of AI and the way you can include it in your
09:44life,
09:44but also harness it, make it your own, not be dominated by it, but make it your own?
09:50It's a very important question because, as you very rightly said,
09:55the idea and the objective that we 100% share in France with this technology
09:59is to say that if it's going to stay until just a handful of hands,
10:03like basically everyone in this room was interested about AI,
10:06we're not really getting to the extent of the progress that this technology can bring.
10:11And so safety and trust is one very key component on how we can fathom the adoption of AI
10:21because everyone is probably very convinced that I can bring so much to the population,
10:28to scientists who are curing cancer.
10:30I was with a company doing that just now to productivity gains for lawyers.
10:37Like there are so many examples, or doctors making their life easier.
10:42But every time I go out of those big tech events and I actually talk to citizens,
10:47and that's why I love you say it's about impact for us,
10:50the truth is a lot of people are still asking a lot of questions about AI.
10:56They're asking if AI can lie to them.
10:58They're asking if AI is going to replace them.
11:01They're asking if they're going to lose their job.
11:04They're asking what's going to happen with their data.
11:06And all those questions, they need to be answered because otherwise we are just going to increase
11:11the digital divide internally in each country and globally between countries
11:15who have taken a stronger approach to the development of AI.
11:20And the solution to that is regulation to kind of say,
11:25okay, just to give you trust that this is some of the usages we just don't want,
11:29and that's how we approach it as Europeans.
11:31Not to say, okay, we want to slow down innovation, but just to say there are things in Europe we
11:37don't want AI to do.
11:38Like AI, we could guess looking at all the information about the people in this room,
11:42what's your sexual orientation?
11:44We just don't want that.
11:45That creates trust.
11:46But trust is not enough.
11:47Then there is education and sensibilization.
11:50It's not just education in the classroom, but it's really going all the way to all citizens to say,
11:56hey, ask your questions because you know why, what?
11:59It's absolutely normal you have those questions.
12:02They need to be heard and they need to be taken very seriously.
12:05And so that's what we've tried to do.
12:07And I want to thank the Conseil National du Numérique, the Digital National Council,
12:12who's done an amazing work putting together this idea of having what we call AI coffees,
12:18where we go all around the country just talking about AI with citizens.
12:23And that's very complementary to the work that the Minister of Education, Elisabeth Borne, has also done,
12:29which is to say that starting September, kids will have AI lessons in all schools,
12:34but not only kids, teachers, because again, talking about the gaps,
12:39it's probably very uncomfortable for some of our teachers nowadays to be in classrooms with kids
12:44who are already using AI.
12:46This is just the reality and not being very comfortable in how to teach them to use it.
12:51So that's definitely a very important part of the job when we are talking about AI adoption.
12:57And again, like the idea that you think about impact is probably a very important focus as well.
13:03Yeah, Mr. Minister, in India, you have a large experience with education,
13:08educating a large number of people.
13:10So how do you address this issue?
13:12You're right.
13:13So as far as India goes, given the scale and size of what we do
13:18with regard to our digital public infrastructure,
13:21and that's the playbook where whatever we've done is open
13:25and it's at scale and it's changing people's lives.
13:28But like Excellency has just said that, you know, a lot of talk about AI
13:33and governments like us are under pressure to show the use cases
13:38and it's impacting people's lives, increasing their level of income, quality of life, standard of living.
13:45And that's where the focus is.
13:47So with the numbers that we have and the potential harms and risks that AI brings,
13:53with deepfake, with misuse of data, with job reduction,
13:59those are concerns which are very much in the minds of people in India.
14:04So, you know, to counter the harms and risks, education and skilling is key.
14:10When job replacement does happen, India is going in large-scale skilling
14:15and future skills programs and the curriculum.
14:19We are trying and, you know, getting AI-ready people, students,
14:25so that they are able to know what the benefits and the harm and risks with AI are in the
14:32future,
14:33as well as job replacement.
14:35That's going to be key for a country like India.
14:38So that's playing in people's mind.
14:42But the government is very aware.
14:44It's a very agile government.
14:46We have a prime minister, Mr. Modi, who is focusing himself on AI and Semicon and technology.
14:52And it's an agile government, so it's listening and it changes policies and programs as the need of the art
14:59is.
14:59So we are very much in tune.
15:03And like I said, we want to be the skill capital.
15:05We want to not only skill for India, but for the world.
15:08And that's what the intent, and that's how we are going with our education program as well.
15:12Yeah.
15:13Well, you know, when we launched the Group Les Écoles Parisiennes Publicis,
15:18when we launched together almost 10 years ago, the first Viva Tech,
15:23we were expecting a lot of things to happen, but none of us really had the idea that AI would
15:30appear
15:30and would make this kind of event, this kind of gathering, even more and more important.
15:36Because it's one of those topics you mentioned and Clara mentioned too,
15:41I think we've only unveiled one or two or five percent of what AI will bring.
15:46So it's only the beginning and the need for sharing understanding, for sharing thoughts about the way we use
15:54and foster the development of AI has never been as big.
15:58So it's really important to continue doing this.
16:00And I think the importance of exchanges between the countries also is very key to the game
16:07because everybody is going to learn.
16:09No one can say, I know everything.
16:10It's not true.
16:12And no perfect rule has been established.
16:14We need to work on that set of rules together.
16:16So do you think it's going to be more national or more multilateral or international?
16:21I wanted to add on to what you just said, because it's exactly the mindset of our president
16:27and why also we had Modi as a guest of honor during our summit,
16:33because in this transformation, everything you've mentioned about understanding the models,
16:38understanding the risk, addressing the very concrete risk.
16:41You talk about cyber security or misinformation or misuse of AI.
16:46All of those topics are topics where we can definitely learn faster if we work together.
16:51And that was the call we did during the AI Action Summit to say,
16:55this is not a summit for like the handful of companies and countries
16:58who are developing the biggest AI models that you're all using every day.
17:02But it's a summit that is open to absolutely everyone
17:05because this is only with multilateralism and building alliances of countries
17:12that we can really move ahead faster when it comes to understanding the technology,
17:17move ahead faster when it comes to learning from each other
17:19how we can create this trust, create a condition for education,
17:23create the condition to develop AI faster,
17:26but also simply to build projects together.
17:29So one of the big initiatives that was launched together during the AI Action Summit
17:34and that I think you're continuing working on with India
17:38is the current AI Foundation,
17:40which was to say, how do we bring companies, countries together
17:43to the foundation at first had 400 million euros
17:47to develop tools, but also like open source tools
17:52to help all countries in the world access the benefits of AI
17:56so that we can work together on making sure that this technology
18:01is not just staying with the countries who today are developing it the strongest.
18:07Thank you, Claude.
18:08Mr. Minister, maybe one last word of concern.
18:10Yeah, you're right.
18:11The global cooperation is the need of the hour.
18:14The AI and cybersecurity are without boundaries.
18:17It's faceless, it's anonymous.
18:18Unless countries collaborate, exchange best practices,
18:21there's no way going forward.
18:24And it's all about data and without any biases.
18:28So it's inclusion of India firmly believes
18:31there should be a global south and global north congregation
18:35where you get the best open source
18:37without any biases and risks involved.
18:40So India and France have been doing a great,
18:44I can say, engagement at different platforms.
18:49And next year is the year of innovation between India and France
18:53where exchange programs.
18:55And today, while we speak, at Station F,
18:58India has sent about our shortlisted 10 startups to train here.
19:03And likewise, we'd welcome the opportunity of French startups in India
19:07to see what India has to offer.
19:09And that's the way forward between collaboration
19:12with different parts of the world and different countries
19:14so that we get a common AI
19:18and the way that current AI initiative
19:21that has been taken with stake,
19:23not only of France, but different countries
19:25collaborating with actual stake.
19:27That is the need of the hour
19:29where everyone has skin in the game.
19:31And that's, I'm sure, we'll see the light of the day.
19:34So I'll have to bring companies to your country next.
19:38Yeah, of course.
19:39And with that, I really want to thank
19:40our two fantastic panelists for sharing
19:42their not artificial intelligence with us,
19:45a lot of real human intelligence.
19:46So thanks a lot.
19:47Thank you.
19:48And enjoy Viva Tech for all of you.
19:51Thank you very much.
19:51Thank you.
19:54Thank you.
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