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What Has Tech Done for Para-Athletes Lately
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00:00Technology, sport, obviously, and also giving access to people that are disabled is our topic for the next 20 to
00:1225 minutes.
00:15Future sport, co-organized with Viva Tech and Global Sports Week.
00:19We're very proud to bring you this panel.
00:22Bigger, stronger, faster, you know how sports wants to go about things and to innovate in the world of sports.
00:30But once again, in parallel to the athletes, we've got the disabled ones that do deserve some adjustments as well.
00:39You're going to see it's kind of talking like racing or mechanical engineering.
00:45I'm going to bring three people on stage with me.
00:47He's the head of research and studies to provide equipment for disabled.
00:51If you don't disable, please welcome Joseph Bascou at a Serra.
01:00Yeah, we need some more chairs, gentlemen.
01:03We need some more chairs.
01:04We need some more chairs.
01:05Have a seat.
01:10Former president of Piaggio France, Italian-born but very well-traveled.
01:22And last but not least, she's won no less than eight Olympic medals from Beijing to Tokyo.
01:29That's from 2008 until 2020, although it happened in 2021.
01:35A 100, 200, 400-meter runner, Marie-Amélie Lefure.
01:44Madame.
01:47I'll let you guys grab a microphone.
01:49I think I'm going to keep mine.
01:51There you go.
01:51Either or, Fede.
01:56We've met just through teams with heavy planning meetings, agendas.
02:03And Federico was telling me over the phone, do you actually know what para-athletes means?
02:10And it was a great discovery for me.
02:13Yes, we always think about para as paraplegics.
02:17The reality is that it's a para-sport.
02:19So, when we talk about Paralympics, it's about a parallel event to the main event.
02:26And that's how we look at components and equipment.
02:32It's like a parallel segment to the one we usually work at.
02:36So, it's not just...
02:37And also, the competition was actually happening in PPL at the same time.
02:42Exactly.
02:43Now, you've got a two-week window frame to actually get on the scene.
02:50Joseph, when we rehearsed, when we had a conversation,
02:54after a couple of minutes, we were talking about engineering for para-athletes.
03:00I was telling myself, this is like racing.
03:02Sorry?
03:03This is like racing.
03:04This is mechanical engineering.
03:06Yes, absolutely.
03:07I think the Paralympics uses mechanical device.
03:13And this mechanical device can be optimized, can be enhanced through materials, through research, and through settings.
03:24I know you wrote a thesis, but how did you get into that, specifically with para-athletes?
03:30From my perspective, I was bringing in this topic with Stéphane Houdet, which came one day to our research facility.
03:40flag bearer in Tokyo, I believe, for France, Stéphane Houdet.
03:44Marie, you would confirm, yeah?
03:47He came after Beijing Paralympics, and he was persuaded that changing some settings in his wheelchair will help him enhance
04:01his performance.
04:01And that's why I began my thesis with him.
04:06Was Stéphane Houdet a trendsetter, as far as trying to get the best settings on his wheelchair?
04:14There's been others in the past.
04:15Yeah, actually, we started a long time ago with Claude Ysora.
04:20That was in the 90s.
04:21He won multiple medals, Barcelona, Sydney.
04:24And he was on wheelchairs.
04:30It was maybe the time when the media coverage was not as great as it is now on this type
04:36of events and performances.
04:38And we work with Stéphane, and we work with other athletes today.
04:43Do para-athletes get enough feedback from what's being done as far as innovation?
04:52or would you like them to actually question you even more?
04:57Alors, je suis désolée, je vais m'exprimer en français, mais...
04:59Bien sûr. Marie-Amélie, qui s'exprime en français, she'll answer in French, will provide a translation with FIDI.
05:05Mais je pense qu'on a besoin de franchir un cap en France, effectivement.
05:08On a cité comme ça quelques exemples individuels d'athlètes qui sont allés chercher cette innovation du parasport,
05:15cette innovation de la performance parasportive par l'agrégage matériel
05:19et en ayant une meilleure interface homme-matériel handicap.
05:23Ça, c'est absolument essentiel.
05:25We've had a few individuals that were able to go talk to the manufacturer, the researchers,
05:29but we still need to develop it to a wider community.
05:33En fait, c'est vraiment le parti pris qu'ont pris les Anglais en 2012.
05:38On parle du bon des performances des Anglais dans les Jeux paralympiques.
05:41C'est ce qu'ils ont fait.
05:42Ils ont vraiment questionné la performance paralympique.
05:45Ils ont identifié que notre spécificité est passée par le fait qu'il y avait beaucoup de handicaps qui étaient
05:50médiés par du matériel.
05:52Et donc, c'était un point inhérent à la performance sportive.
05:55On est en train de le faire à Paris pour les Jeux de Paris 2024.
06:00On a les compétences en France.
06:01On a les ingénieurs.
06:02On a les structures pour les faire.
06:05Maintenant, francissons ce cap et permettons à l'équipe de France paralympique d'être plus performant.
06:09Marie-Emilie, you're telling us we're running behind a little bit.
06:12I'll give the translation so you can answer afterwards.
06:15But Paris 2024, Marie-Emilie is saying it's coming up.
06:19So we do have the engineers.
06:21We do have the people and the willingness.
06:23But we're running a little bit behind certain nations.
06:27Est-ce qu'on est derrière certaines nations encore un petit peu ?
06:30Oui, on est derrière certaines nations, notamment les Anglais.
06:34Et ce qu'il faut comprendre, c'est qu'on a trois grands thèmes de recherche.
06:37C'est la question du matériel lié au handicap et comment on perfectionne ce lien, encore une fois,
06:44personne, handicap, performance.
06:46Et c'est aussi, après, comment on va plus loin dans les techniques d'entraînement.
06:50Les personnes en situation de handicap ne réagissent pas comme des valides.
06:53Et on a besoin aussi de perfectionner nos recherches et notre technologie et nos innovations sur ce champ-là.
06:58Et la récupération, qui peut aussi être singulière quand on est face à des personnes en situation de handicap.
07:03Donc le champ d'activation et d'innovation est très large.
07:07Et on a besoin de ça en France.
07:09If I cannot understand you in French, I've got to have a hard time to translate.
07:12No, it's very technological, but you're saying it's a triangle.
07:15The person, the engineering, the device, the performance.
07:20I'm going to give a little anecdote I gave them earlier.
07:22We'll have somebody doing a power of fencing on Saturday.
07:27And we're learning, just right now, with Federico, that's been close to periathletes.
07:33With Joseph, that disabled person, have a thermal regulation that's different than somebody that's valid.
07:40All those things have to be taken in consideration when you actually build and when you come up with devices.
07:45We can make stronger steps, you're saying.
07:47Yeah, and I wanted to add to this point, you were mentioning the British federations in general.
07:55And performance is about, we always talk about a performance programme.
08:00Because performance is a list of many things.
08:06The product, the athlete, the nutrition, the psychological support for the athlete.
08:12And some nations have pushed that very, very, very far away.
08:18And I think for Paris, a lot of federations, part of the federation than not,
08:24are working with this new mentality that came from abroad.
08:28Let me be very straightforward with you, Joseph, maybe.
08:31If I'm the richest nation, do I get the most chances?
08:36Where do we put a threshold as far as enhancement, innovation?
08:45Obviously, researches take time and take money.
08:49And more nations that want to put more money and more efforts in helping their athletes
08:57will certainly gain more medals.
09:02And that's why in France, there was a huge project that was financed by the state, which is Paraperf.
09:09And it has three steps.
09:12One step is the athlete performance.
09:15The second step is how to give him the best device and how to train him, how to follow him
09:23medically.
09:23And the third step is about social environment.
09:28How do we make the social environment of the athletes better so that they enhance their performance?
09:36You were saying also, so we can give people a rough estimate,
09:40Stéphane Oudet, our tennis player who won Roland Garros so many times.
09:45Well, he broke his wheelchair last week.
09:48It happens.
09:49It was too old, but it was probably an old frame.
09:54For an high-profile wheelchair, whether it's basketball, tennis, even rugby, we're talking 15,000 to 20,000 euros.
10:02Is that a good estimate?
10:06Something like that for the wheelchair, yes.
10:08But you were telling me, with the right settings, we could cut down the price.
10:17When you put a lot of money in your wheelchair, you can make it lighter.
10:23But if you do not have enough money to make it lighter, you can change a little bit the settings.
10:29And that's what we are working on.
10:32And changing the settings, you can change a lot of things on the performance.
10:37And finding the best setting is one way to enhance performance without giving more price to the wheelchair.
10:47Setting up, maybe, I don't know, because most of the time it's our inferior, lower members that are disabled.
10:57So adjusting the height for the shoulders to propulse.
11:01Yes, for example, the English team, they give their athletes a wheelchair for which you can change the settings during
11:12two years.
11:13And then, after two years, when they are sure of the settings, they put it in a rigid frame that
11:20is more light, that weight less.
11:24But they give their athletes at least two years to change the settings.
11:29And what we are trying to do is to achieve the best settings in less time.
11:35You're going to see where we're going.
11:37Obviously, we're talking about microcosm of para-athletes.
11:40And in those para-athletes, we're talking about very high performance.
11:43But we're going to see that by time, by ingenuity, by innovation, we're going to be able to give this
11:51to a reachable and a larger audience.
11:54For example, Federico was into cycling, has been into cycling for a while.
11:58Team Cofidis, men and women.
12:01And now, as well with the disabled team.
12:04But Karima is solely focused on carbon wheels.
12:08Carbon because it's lighter?
12:12How about this one?
12:16Yeah, with carbon, we achieve stiffness and lightness and therefore performance.
12:23And the way we work is often we start developing products, for example, for regular cyclists,
12:33regular bicycles before moving into handbikes or wheelchairs.
12:38The concept and the way we approach development is always the same because we achieve performance through the same process.
12:47We work the carbon.
12:49We test the products for aerodynamics.
12:53Whether it's para-athletes or not, the needs are the same.
12:59And we actually, because of the experience we have with this type of products,
13:05we are also able to provide products for everyday use.
13:11And so something else that we started doing, the experience we gained developing wheels for wheelchairs and handbikes,
13:19allowed us actually to develop beautiful and performing wheels for everyday use.
13:27Talk about this, everyday.
13:29So we went from high performance to something that's quite expensive to something a bit more affordable
13:36so that disabled person can think and tell themselves,
13:40I can take advantage of it as well?
13:43Well, first of all, we learn about the needs.
13:46So wheelchair users can be professional athletes, but there's also everyday person on a wheelchair
13:54and they have needs for comfort, but also design and aesthetics.
13:59As much as we choose a pair of shoes or a suit, then the wheelchair is part of their look.
14:08And also the ergonomics, meaning the way you push a wheelchair, the way your hand,
14:14which is also sometimes disabled, grips the handles of the wheels, is very important.
14:20So all this experience that we have on the product for performance,
14:24we transfer it to develop more affordable, but especially products that are used on an everyday wheelchair.
14:32Isn't that our goal, Marie-Amélie?
14:34Obviously, we're doing innovation to a very thin audience,
14:40but we want to bring it to the largest possible.
14:42I'm talking about periathletes, but people that maybe tell themselves,
14:49I can't really get into sport, you want to tell them that it's possible.
14:52Also with the population that's aging,
14:56our way to access to sport is actually getting better.
15:01I think that Frédérico has well mentioned the situation.
15:05The idea is to enter into this very visible circle of high performance
15:09for all the actions of research and development.
15:13And then, it comes to irrigate the daily life of the person in situation of handicap.
15:17I, at my petite échelle, I've already seen it.
15:19I've seen how, on the research of the lames,
15:23how they make these lames of course more performantes,
15:26the impact that it has had on the fatigability,
15:29or in any case, the reduction of my fatigability
15:31in the use of the prothèses of the daily life.
15:33So, it's really one of the first challenges.
15:36It's to have, effectively, this effect of the development of the high performance
15:39for reasons of performance sportive,
15:41which is found in the daily life and in the autonomy of people in situation of handicap.
15:45But more large, it's going to serve, in fact,
15:48the mobility of all and all.
15:49Because there is also a loss of autonomy,
15:523e age.
15:53And that, it's something that we get to all of us.
15:55And so, it's the mobility solutions that can be offered to the largest number.
15:59Marie-Sange, I like this window.
16:02The high performance gives some media traction.
16:05And then we can, obviously, in a second time, work on it.
16:09We'll talk about blades in a second,
16:11because we've been mentioning wheelchairs.
16:13And it's interesting, this works, as far as biodynamics as well.
16:18And yes, obviously, to a wider audience, as far as disables.
16:22And we're an aging population.
16:24So, those things need to be taken into account.
16:28I've heard valid people.
16:30You wanted to bounce on this?
16:32No, I just wanted to add one thing.
16:35When we talk about the high performance
16:37and sometimes custom-made products,
16:42for a brand or for an industrial business,
16:44this is not really a business.
16:45It's just like a unique product.
16:48So, the way we approach this type of technology,
16:54we work with and for athletes,
16:58para-athletes or not para-athletes,
17:02doesn't matter,
17:03to develop a certain product.
17:04But then we industrialize the products
17:06to make it available for everybody.
17:09Are the para-athletes more demanding,
17:11more expecting than the other athletes?
17:14I guess they would, no?
17:15They are equally demanding.
17:17is that sometimes we know less about what they need.
17:20Joseph, you were saying it's adjustments at all times.
17:25Oh, you guys have a problem with the microphone.
17:27No question.
17:29How about this one?
17:31Working with...
17:32Chick-Chick 1-2.
17:33Yes.
17:33Working with a para-athlete is special
17:36because he's always demanding better things.
17:38and he has a great knowledge of his performance
17:43and a great knowledge of his equipment.
17:46So, we have a feedback of what we do.
17:50So, that's why it's very interesting
17:52to work with a para-athlete.
17:55And, as he has a high demand on the material,
18:00we always see the limits of our work.
18:02And so, it's great to work with para-athletes.
18:06But then, I totally agree that the researches that we do
18:11will must have an impact on the daily user of wheelchair and blades.
18:17I want to talk about the blades.
18:20Obviously, for the wrong reasons,
18:22the past few years we've heard about Oscar Pistorius.
18:25But, I remember when we discovered those blades,
18:29value people were saying,
18:30it's unfair!
18:31They actually accelerate toward the end of the 400-meter hurdles.
18:34Can you explain to us what's happening in terms of engineering?
18:38It's like the blade bounces and gets energy as we go on?
18:44Either or, both of you.
18:45Yeah, perhaps the athlete last.
18:48No, the blade is like a spring.
18:51And the spring has a frequency,
18:54and the same frequency everywhere.
18:56So, if you, like a ball that you want to bounce on the floor,
19:00and if you take the frequency of the bouncing,
19:04and you just push at the right time,
19:07you don't have to put a lot of effort to make it bounce.
19:10But, it's only able to bounce at the same frequency.
19:15So, before this frequency, it will not be okay,
19:19and after this frequency, it will not be okay.
19:22But, at the right frequency,
19:24the energy you have to put in to make it work
19:28is less than the normal one.
19:31So, the energy lasts longer.
19:33And you mentioned earlier,
19:34your fatigue as well has been enhanced.
19:38You have less fatigue.
19:39That's innovation as well.
19:41Yes, it's true that in the quotidien,
19:43the fact of having used this technology
19:44of prosthetic lames,
19:46and of having them put in the feet of the quotidien,
19:48from the moment that we are on the right frequency
19:50of resonance,
19:52for us, it's less fatigability,
19:54and it allows us to have a daily routine
19:56which is more facilitated.
19:57And maybe, for a little bit on a problem,
19:59it's what's the role of the mass
20:02for the people in situation of handicap?
20:03In fact, very long time,
20:04we thought that it was not essential
20:06in the life of a person in situation of handicap
20:08to do it.
20:09And yes, it's all.
20:10It's all about the issues of health,
20:12the issues of health,
20:14the issues of the sport that porte the practice sportive,
20:15but also because the effects of the practice sportive,
20:19the effects of the sport,
20:20they are bonified when you are in situation of handicap.
20:23And in a society that lives encore
20:25with a lot of prejudices,
20:26it's the ability to make the views of the public
20:30on the handicap,
20:31but also the person in situation of handicap
20:33on themselves and on their own capabilities.
20:35I've got a very last question before we wrap it up.
20:40How far do we go?
20:42Where do we put, remove the cursor?
20:44When do we consider that this innovation for competition,
20:49this enhancement, could be considered as doping?
20:56After, I have my own vision of the thing,
20:58but from the moment that the Olympic Games
20:59rest the Olympic Games with regulations,
21:02and classification,
21:03and this classification
21:05that allows to categorize
21:07like that the handicaps,
21:08and finally, in a lot of sports,
21:10and especially in the sports where there is material,
21:12it's only the same handicaps
21:14that they face each other.
21:15And what we have to understand,
21:17and we said before,
21:18the niche of the high performance,
21:19it's a niche.
21:20So, finally, the athletes of the high perf,
21:22they have access to the same material.
21:24I have access to the LAM
21:25that Oscar Pistorius had developed.
21:27I have access, more recently,
21:30to the LAM that developed Marcus Rehm,
21:32which is the record man
21:33of the saut in long term,
21:35amputated tibial.
21:36So, in fact,
21:37there is no competition,
21:39in any case,
21:39there is no competition
21:40between the athletes
21:41because we have access
21:42to the same technology.
21:43However, there is a disparity
21:45of the nations rich,
21:46with the nations,
21:47malheureusement,
21:47who are not in the same material.
21:49I've got no hard feelings
21:51talking about that
21:51because we're not hiding anything.
21:54I've got access
21:55to the first innovations
21:57that have been made,
21:59although it is true
22:00that some countries
22:02don't really have the access
22:05to certain of our innovation.
22:07But it's out there,
22:08and anybody can reiterate
22:12what's been done before.
22:14Last few words, guys.
22:15Yeah, I wanted to add the fact
22:16that there's regulations,
22:18and often for Olympic sports,
22:23athletes cannot compete
22:25with prototypes.
22:26So the product that we race with
22:27need to be products
22:29that need to be readily available
22:31for any athletes,
22:33any person that wants to buy it.
22:36Wow, okay.
22:37So there's a legislation
22:39once we've come up
22:40with a device?
22:41That's the case for cyclists
22:43and for wheels,
22:44and so we need to be able
22:46to sell the products.
22:48Last few words, guys.
22:49Last thought, maybe,
22:51on what we've done.
22:51What has technology
22:53been doing lately
22:54for para-athletes?
22:55Are you happy
22:56with the way things are going?
22:57We've understood.
22:58You're very competitive,
23:00and you say,
23:00we can do more.
23:02How is France going to feature
23:04at the 2024 Olympics here in France
23:08on Omisoyd for para-athletes?
23:09What do you think, Marie-Emilie?
23:10Alors, moi, mon ambition,
23:12mon rêve, on va dire,
23:13à l'issue des Jeux de Paris 2024,
23:15depuis tout à l'heure,
23:16effectivement,
23:16on parle de cette technologie,
23:18de son caractère essentiel
23:19dans la pratique sportive
23:20des personnes de handicap.
23:21Demain, c'est de démocratiser
23:23l'accès à cette pratique sportive.
23:28et bien évidemment,
23:29il faut que les acteurs privés
23:30continuent dans l'innovation,
23:32dans le développement,
23:32mais il faut aussi
23:33que les acteurs publics,
23:34et notamment l'État,
23:36se posent la question
23:36de la compensation du handicap,
23:38notamment sur les loisirs sportifs,
23:40pour faciliter l'accès à ce matériel
23:42qui n'est pas nécessairement
23:43un matériel de pointe,
23:44mais qui n'est plus ni moins
23:45un matériel qui permet
23:46à la personne de pratiquer
23:48sans risque de blessure
23:50ou en tout cas
23:51en lien avec son handicap.
23:53We've been repeating this
23:54over and over.
23:54There's going to be impact,
23:55there's going to be a legacy
23:56with these Olympic Games,
23:58but once we've showed you
24:00that we want, obviously,
24:02access to the widest audience,
24:04the largest community,
24:05that is periathletes
24:07and people that didn't think
24:08they could have access to it,
24:10Will, thanks to your guys' work.
24:13Thank you so much.
24:14Joseph Bascou,
24:15head of SERFA,
24:16Federico Moussi with Corima,
24:18and our ambassador for 2020-24,
24:21Marie-Amelie Lefeuille,
24:21give them a round of applause.
24:22Thank you so much.
24:24Thank you.
24:24Thank you.
24:25Thank you.
24:25Thank you.
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