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Can We Reconcile Hyper Growth and Sustainability?
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00:01Hello everyone and welcome back to Viva Tech. If you're joining us right now, my name is Asha Samput and
00:07I am your host this afternoon.
00:09So we are about to start our third session on scaling up entitled From Startup to Grown-Up, The Worst
00:17and Best Mistakes to Make.
00:19And we will have the great opportunity to welcome one of the tech's greatest leaders, thinkers and investors, Mr. John
00:26Chambers.
00:27That will be in a couple of minutes, but before we welcome John today, I would like to introduce Anne
00:31Cotigiano, who is the Director of External Affairs and Engagement at Roland Berger.
00:37Anne will kick off this session with an exclusive report before we get into our fireside chat. So Anne, you're
00:45ready?
00:45Yes, I am. Thank you. The floor is yours. I'll see you later.
00:48All right. See ya. So, hi everyone. I'm very happy to be here with you today.
00:53Okay. So, when it comes to fundraising, we can say that 2021 was a record-breaking year for Europe.
01:06But lately, and as we know, the slowdown in venture capital activity has been brutal.
01:14So, in this newly uncertain context, I think it's fair to say, and I'm afraid to say, that only the
01:21best startups will stay alive.
01:25Roland Berger has been working with the tech ecosystem for years now. But lately, and regarding what's at stake, we
01:33wanted to go one step further.
01:36This time we wanted to find out what it takes to scale well, to scale in the long run, and
01:43we wanted to find out if we could get best practices out of it.
01:48So we could figure out how to help CEOs to get their companies through dizzying and unpredictable growth phases.
01:59So, over the last few months, we spent more than 50 hours talking to more than 40 CEOs of the
02:07European tech system, so we could have a genuine, a unique, and a very special exchange with all of them.
02:17What we did there is that we went looking for the truth, not numbers. And I'm glad to say that
02:23I think I found it.
02:27So, all CEOs I talked to made me converge on one major idea. And this idea may actually sound counter
02:37-intuitive at first, because it's very different from the agility talk we hear about all the time.
02:45This one idea is that when it comes to scaling, the one thing you have to do is to stay
02:52true to yourself.
02:55And this stay true to yourself feeling came up consistently on every interview and on every topic.
03:05Because scaling appears to be, above anything else, a matter of identity.
03:11An identity in business is actually way more than a logo. It's also way more than a slogan. It's the
03:18original mindset of a company.
03:21It's its creativity and it's also its ability to innovate.
03:27It's also the company's own entrepreneurial spirit. And this spirit is the most important thing to preserve when it comes
03:36to scaling.
03:37Because it is what will help you strive for greatness.
03:44So, what we've learned throughout this journey is that to scale well, you have to stay true to four things.
03:52One, you have to stay true to your values.
03:56Because that will help you allow to gather the most relevant, diverse, and inspired team of talents around one core
04:06ambition.
04:09In the words of Bastian Ogeri, who is the CEO of InnovaFeed, it's better to recruit the right talents than
04:16the right skill.
04:18Because the thing is, the right skill can actually be learned as opposed to the right attitude.
04:25So, to stay true to your values, you better surround yourself with people who are aligned with them.
04:31And more clearly, these values are embedded in your key recruiting processes.
04:35The easier it will be for you to start launching a virtual circle of talents.
04:44So, two, you have to stay true to your customers.
04:49Because that will allow you to align your company with the customers' needs you want to fix.
04:56I had the great opportunity to talk to Heini Zakariasen, who is the CEO and the founder of Vivino.
05:04And it was really a light bulb moment for me.
05:07Because what he told me, I really wasn't expecting.
05:10And he said, it's not about having a good product.
05:15It's about having the best product.
05:20Because to stay relevant in the fast-paced world of tech, Vivino listens to the users' feedbacks
05:27and interprets them into the app twice a month.
05:32And many of their customers have been driving Vivino for the past 12 years.
05:37And today, they have more than 50 million users all over the world, making Vivino the largest one app ever.
05:47Three, you have to stay true to your vision.
05:51Because this will help you shape your company closer to your ambition.
05:59Screw the org chart is what Nicholas Frid from Canton Square told me.
06:05That doesn't mean there is no organization at all at Canton Square.
06:10It just means it's different from any usual company.
06:14It also means that the best idea wins, no matter where it comes from.
06:20It could come from an assistant.
06:23It could come from an intern.
06:25It could also come from the CEO.
06:27It just doesn't matter as long as it's the best.
06:31You know no company is destined to fit or grow in a pre-made box.
06:36So what matters is that you stay true to who you are and you know where you want your company
06:47to go
06:47and you know where you don't want it to go.
06:51Four, and this is my last point, you have to stay true to your beliefs.
06:57And especially when looking for fundings.
07:00Because that will make you go for investors that are close to your heart rather than go for the easy
07:06money.
07:08I'm not sure you know but prior to its introduction on Euronext,
07:13OVH Cloud had the opportunity to be listed on Nasdaq.
07:17All investors thought it was the best thing to do.
07:21But OVH Cloud refused that.
07:25Because they believe in digital European sovereignty.
07:30When I talked to Michel Polin, who is the CEO of OVH Cloud,
07:34I realized how impossible it was for him to compromise his ideals
07:40and give up control to foreign investors.
07:44And this belief brought OVH Cloud pride from their employees.
07:51It also brought trust from European people investors.
07:55And it also reinforced the company's purpose and its position as a European tech leader.
08:02So if you ask me, that was definitely the best thing to do.
08:07So to conclude, I'd like to say that identity is what gives the company its age.
08:16It's what drives the leaders and all the team behind the project to go the extra mile.
08:23It is what leads them.
08:25It is what gives them purpose.
08:29Identity is the company's biggest asset to reach not only milestones of growth,
08:34but most importantly, greatness.
08:39So I'd like to make a call to action today.
08:44Entrepreneurs, stay aligned with who you are, no matter what.
08:50Investors, acknowledge and integrate this asset that is the identity of an entrepreneur.
08:59And finally, consultants and advisors value the singularity of entrepreneurs
09:06and extract yourselves from ready-made recipes in order to consider a project in all its truth.
09:15From the bottom of my heart, I'd like to thank all the brilliant CEOs that talked to us
09:19and helped us bring this study to life.
09:21We've had an amazing time with you.
09:23And thank you all for listening.
09:29Thank you, Anne.
09:30Brilliant.
09:31Brilliant.
09:32Thank you so much for sharing.
09:33So, and now I think we are ready to welcome our next guest, Cedric Wright.
09:41Okay, so we'll be back in two minutes.
09:44This is what you were saying, Cedric Wright.
09:46We're back in two minutes for scaling up and we are going to be having on the set John Chambers.
09:52Don't move.
09:53We'll be right back.
10:16We'll be right back.
10:29Sweet to the day.
10:32We will be right back.
10:38Só happened.
11:08Sous-titrage MFP.
11:38Sous-titrage MFP.
11:42And now we are back, right, and please join me in welcoming John Chambers, the CEO of JC2 Ventures.
11:49It's great to have you, John.
11:50It's a pleasure.
11:51Good to see a number of friends.
11:53Right, I can see that.
11:54So you brought a lot of people with you.
11:55Oh, they're all my friends.
11:56Otherwise, we wouldn't get them in here.
11:58Right.
11:59It's always great to see you here at Vivitech.
12:01Thank you.
12:01And so welcome back.
12:03So honestly, when I was told that I was going to interview John Chambers, I said, okay, right.
12:09So what do we do?
12:10What do we talk about?
12:11You have such a brilliant experience with everything you've achieved.
12:14You were a former chairman, CEO of Cisco, and you've been working with entrepreneurs.
12:19I mean, you have so much to share about.
12:23So probably I would ask you the first question.
12:25Many of you here in this room and behind their screens would like to know a little bit about your
12:30experience.
12:31I know there are lots to say, but we have 15 minutes.
12:33You know that.
12:34So from Cisco to the startup world, what can you tell us?
12:38It's so exciting.
12:39Well, what's most exciting is the movie I've seen, every movie there is before.
12:44And I've seen tremendous growth, you know, from 400 people to 75,000, from 70 million in sales to 48
12:51billion.
12:52I've been through the economic ups and downs of 2001, 2008.
12:56And I think many of the expectations that we have about technology have come true.
13:01And many of the expectations we had here five years ago about Francis' future in technology and innovation have also
13:08come true.
13:09We're probably in the most exciting times, both in terms of opportunity, because every company in the world becomes a
13:15tech company,
13:16regardless if you're in manufacturing or healthcare or finance.
13:19And at the same time, the variables you're seeing now are moving at a speed and occurring at one time
13:25that no one's seen.
13:26It's been 12 years since our last economic slowdown.
13:29That's a nice way of saying most of the leaders in this room have never led through an economic downturn.
13:35It's been 40 years since we've had inflation.
13:38And anybody that's seen inflation like this, interest rates will get raised to above what the inflation level is.
13:45That's the only way you bring it back in line.
13:47The last supply chain challenge, 1999.
13:51And then you have COVID on top of it and geopolitical issues.
13:53So a lot of variables.
13:55But I think tech will once again come out on top as we navigate through it.
13:59You're more a product of how you not only handle your growth, but how you handle your setbacks, your near
14:04-death experiences.
14:06Several of you in this room are probably going to go through that this next year.
14:09Oh, wow.
14:10So it's great to hear about what do you see when it comes to, you know, entrepreneurship.
14:16We see how the world is changing, how the market is shifting, how the business models also are also shifting.
14:23There are so many entrepreneurs here and watching us.
14:26And what are the common mistakes that they make and how can they avoid them?
14:32So when you really think about if I were one of your investors, how many of you are startups in
14:37the room?
14:38How many of you are VCs?
14:41Okay.
14:42If I were a VC talking to startups, I'd look at what is your business market transition enabled by new
14:47technology.
14:48So you've got to make sure you have differentiation versus your peers.
14:52And you're using a new technology like AI to change your business model, like the internet changed the business model
14:5830 years ago.
14:59Second thing I look at is the CEO and she or his team.
15:03Then I look at what their customer success rate is.
15:06Do their customers really fall in love with them and how close they are to a transition?
15:10So my advice on the room would be to be sure you've got your differentiation in line, that you're also
15:16realizing we're going to enter a period of uncertainty.
15:19And so you want to focus on growth, but you want to focus having a plan that if we do
15:24hit an economic slowdown, which I believe we're going to, you have a plan A, B, and C to navigate
15:30through it as you go forward.
15:31So managing growth.
15:33How many of you are engineering leaders of your startups, engineering background?
15:37Mistakes you all will make.
15:39You'll hire a chief revenue officer who talks like an engineer who's really a business development person in disguise.
15:47And for those of you who have a business background, you'll make the same mistakes on engineers.
15:52You'll focus on an engineer who can really articulate their vision well, when in fact, for an engineering lead, you
15:57want somebody who can build great products.
15:59So realize that you're more a product of your mistakes than you are your successes.
16:04If you're not taking risks, you're actually falling behind and you want to focus on disruption.
16:09Take risks.
16:10And also, what would you say, what kind of business models are we talking about today?
16:14We need to have more stronger business models, more tangible business models, right, given the context?
16:22The questions are very good when I listened a little bit to your prior panel.
16:26What the VCs, including myself, I have 20 startups, eight of which are already unicorns.
16:32And I usually invest 2% to 15% of the companies on it.
16:37What we were looking for over the last decade was growth.
16:41Now, what we're looking for is really profits, cash flow, productivity, sustainable differentiation.
16:49So you will see the markets rotate in this process.
16:53And the implications on what you're going to be able to get from VCs, private equities, will be affected just
16:58like the stock market does.
16:59Numbers you're probably already familiar with.
17:02During the downturn of 2000, to go back to my toughest time period, my stock only, I mean, my sales
17:10only grew 15% as opposed to the normal 50%.
17:13But the stock went down by 80%.
17:15You see that with great companies like DocuSign today.
17:19Their stock's going from 300 to 60.
17:22Cloudflare, their stock's going from over 200 to like 40.
17:26So there'll be a natural adjustment here.
17:28I don't think that's bad.
17:29I think the market was two to three times what we've traditionally seen.
17:33So I think it's a natural setting.
17:34And great companies are always formed during the economic slowdowns.
17:39When things are growing rapidly, there are too many opportunities.
17:42And you don't break away.
17:44And we're seeing a correction right now.
17:45And this is what's happening.
17:46So we have lots of startups here.
17:48And one of their dream or the hardest thing, I would say, for startups is to scale, right?
17:54So when we want to grow.
17:55So what kind of advice would you like to give to them?
17:59And also, how do you think founders today can build more sustainable growth?
18:05Well, I think it starts with really understand your vision and strategy.
18:10And it sounds basic, but it would shock you how many times when you sit down with a startup
18:14and I ask you, give me your vision and strategy.
18:16I can't tell how that differentiates from the other five or ten players I've talked to in that industry segment.
18:21So really understand what is unique about your vision, what is your sustainable differentiation.
18:28Then it's candidly about the team that you build.
18:31So it is how do you re-get that engineering team at world class?
18:35How do you get the sales team at world class?
18:36But services become very key.
18:39You will also move from your chief financial person being just a really good controller
18:44to them truly being a financial officer of it.
18:48And most startups underestimate how important culture is.
18:53You know, Warren Buffett said it best, culture eats vision and strategy for lunch.
18:57I believe that great companies have really strong culture.
19:00You may like it, you may not.
19:02But whether it's a Tesla or a Cisco or a Microsoft, cultures are different within it.
19:07And then you've got to have the courage to continue to take risk and disrupt yourself.
19:12If you're not disrupting yourself, your competitors are and the markets are.
19:16Doing the right thing too long is a common mistake.
19:19And during my 25 years of leading Cisco, I had eight heads of sales.
19:23I had seven CFOs.
19:25I had eight heads of business development, each of which was viewed as, at their time,
19:30the best in the industry.
19:32So the way that you're most successful as a leader is the quality of your team
19:35with a real crisp vision of where to go.
19:38And then how you handle not just your growth, but your setbacks.
19:42Right.
19:42So you've been in the business world for such a long time.
19:45And what can you say, what are the skills that are needed, I mean, for a founder to be successful,
19:53to grow his venture?
19:54And do you see that the skills that, you know, you were seeing like a couple of decades ago,
20:00that are they the same?
20:02The skills are similar, but there's not going to be a major company regardless of industry
20:09that has leaders who don't understand technology.
20:11From earlier comments, an automotive company, top people there have to understand a digital dashboard.
20:18They have to understand how you electrify a car.
20:20They've got to understand self-driving.
20:22Those are the differentiations within it.
20:24What is different today is the speed at which you all have to operate.
20:28How quickly you're operating in an environment that has the variables I talked about in my opening comments.
20:34So I think speed is the key difference.
20:36Also, selling technology for technology's sake does not get the job done.
20:41You've got to learn how to sell business outcomes or consumer outcomes in a way that captures people's imagination.
20:48So if there's one thing that's different, it's the speed.
20:51Fantastic.
20:51So probably it might be too early to ask that question, but any thoughts about 2023?
20:56What should founders and entrepreneurs prepare themselves for?
21:00What's ahead?
21:01What, you know, what's the hype?
21:03What's the promise in tech?
21:04What can you say?
21:06Well, I think when you talk about the future, it's important to be realistic that we're probably going to hit
21:12some bumps in this next 12 months.
21:15Historically, those bumps last for a year.
21:18And so as you think about the future, you probably need to have a plan A, a plan B, and
21:23a plan C.
21:24As you go into this, and if I am right about the economic slowdowns, and actually I have a lot
21:29of weaknesses, a lot of them, but I've seen every movie,
21:32I usually connect the dots and get the market transitions right, pattern recognition.
21:37You want to think that if we might be headed for a slowdown, how much are you going to be
21:42affected?
21:43And be realistic.
21:45You've got to deal with both what is the macro issue you're dealing with, but also what did you do
21:50to yourself?
21:51And when you grow at a period like we've gone through, the companies develop a lot of overhead.
21:56They don't make some of the people decisions as much as they should.
21:59They didn't deal with some of their quality issues like they should.
22:02So when you reset for this new future, you want to say how much is self-inflicted and how much
22:09is market.
22:09Then you basically do five to seven things, plays you're going to run.
22:13You explain that to your shareholders, to your employees, to your customers, to your partners.
22:18You regularly report back on it, and then you paint the picture of what you look like as you navigate
22:23through this.
22:24And don't be in denial.
22:26When this comes at you, it comes at you with tremendous speed.
22:29Right. Now, very briefly, what were your biggest failures in a period of crisis?
22:34And how can founders out there and startup leaders learn from them?
22:39Well, my biggest failure was clearly 2000, 2001.
22:44I'd grown for 10 years, 65% a year, most valuable company in the world.
22:51We had our forecast down so well, I could tell you within two pennies what it would be for a
22:55year,
22:56even though 80% of my orders were new every quarter.
22:58I used a pattern recognition, similar to AI today, about being able to check the future,
23:03and I was sure my numbers were right.
23:06Stock market started to weaken a little bit, sound familiar like today.
23:10My prior experience all indicated I was going to grow 40% next year.
23:14My current weeks were growing at 70%, and I reiterated the street, 35% growth.
23:2245 days later, I'd gone from 70% growth to minus 35%, mathematically impossible, and the stock took a hit.
23:31However, you are a product, and Jack Welch, a prior generation leader at GE many decades ago,
23:37said you're more a product as a leader how you handle the setbacks.
23:41Until you have a near-death experience, you're not going to have a great company.
23:44So I'd prepare for tough times, hope for the good times, and then be very agile would be the key
23:50marketing term I would use as we go into this next year.
23:53Okay.
23:54And maybe my final question, we're running a little bit late.
23:57So on the topics, I have to ask you this question.
24:01What controversial topics with what's happening right now, Russia, Ukraine, you know, the crisis in Europe.
24:06So what's the playbook for leaders?
24:08Do you think that leaders, entrepreneurs, they should take a stand somewhere on these issues?
24:16Well, you're asking a series of questions, and something I will also teach the audience.
24:20I'm going to answer your question, and then I'm going to answer the question I want to end on at
24:23the end, Aisha.
24:24I think the geopolitical issues are very important to companies, and I think that ties back to your culture.
24:30So I think on issues that really are something you believe in culture, and if you believe what a country
24:36is doing is wrong, either in terms of privacy or in terms of their goals militarily, I think you need
24:44to say that.
24:45I think companies that are well-run have both business, financial objectives, but also to society.
24:52What I would do in this room, however, is think about how uniquely you are positioned here in Europe and
24:57France.
24:57The French are the only culture that I deal with that are harder on themselves than most markets are.
25:03France right now has so much going for it.
25:06The last five years have been amazing.
25:08You have, in my opinion, one of the top two or three leaders in the world in Macron.
25:13You are seeing your unicorn start to form faster than any other nation in Europe.
25:18You and India are the two that have a digital plan for their countries, for their futures.
25:22And I think it's important, as you go through this, to resist the temptation of, let's turn to the left
25:29or let's turn to the right.
25:30I think it's really to play out the hand.
25:31If I were betting on any country in Europe, I'd bet on France twice.
25:36If I were betting on any country in Asia, I'd bet on India twice.
25:40What's common in those?
25:42Startups, innovation, leaders who get it, and a vision of the future.
25:46I want you to dream bigger and achieve those dreams.
25:49So each year, as we come back together, I'd like to see how accurate your and my comments were today.
25:54Yeah, fantastic.
25:54And I'm going to finish reading the book because I started it, Connecting the Dots.
25:59So I'm going to finish that and ask you some more questions next year.
26:02Thank you, John.
26:03It's great to have you.
26:04It's great to have your insights.
26:05It's always good to have you at ViverTech.
26:06Thank you so much.
26:07And, of course, right, it's time, ladies and gentlemen, to take a short break.
26:11We'll be back in a few minutes for our next session, which is entitled,
26:15Are the Roaring Tech Twenties Already Over?
26:19And for those watching us online who wish to continue watching,
26:22so click on Stage 2 banner on the digital platform.
26:25And also you can click on Stage 2 button to ask your questions via the chat.
26:30We'll be back in a few minutes at 4 p.m. for our last session.
26:33Thank you very much.
26:33Thank you, John.
26:34I appreciate it.
26:35It was a pleasure.
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