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00:00Hello and welcome to the Traitors Uncloaked Grand Finale.
00:07I'm Ed Gamble and I'm here at the BBC Radio Theatre with an amazing audience made up of Traitors and Faithful.
00:13So, what have we got coming up in this final episode?
00:20Claudia Winkleman can finally spill all on this incredible series of the Traitors.
00:24Chest of Chance victim James and finalist Jade reflect on going to battle at the round table,
00:29the ceremonial dagger and surviving suspicion.
00:32Finalists Faraz and Jack talk us through that nail-biting endgame.
00:35And our historic winners Rachel and Stephen will be joining us for their first ever interviews.
00:40Make sure you're sitting comfortably because this is the Traitors Uncloaked Grand Finale.
00:51We'll be bringing on the players shortly but before that I'm thrilled to once again introduce the truly incredible Claudia Winkleman!
00:59Welcome.
01:01Thank you so much for having me.
01:03Welcome Claudia.
01:04I just love seeing everybody look.
01:06No.
01:07Look how smart they look.
01:08Look how gorgeous.
01:09Very gorgeous.
01:10All alive crucially.
01:11They're all alive.
01:12Yes.
01:13Vital.
01:14Very nice.
01:15Thank you for joining us again on Uncloaked Claudia.
01:16An amazing final episode.
01:18What was it like watching it all back?
01:20Emotional because I was watching with the entire cast and I believe that none of you knew the outcome.
01:29So it was really thrilling then everyone standing up at the end.
01:33It's emotional.
01:34I mean you can see when I do it I get I'm a bit too in.
01:37You are invested.
01:38I cried before Rachel and Stephen.
01:43It was weird.
01:44A lot of tears at the end there.
01:46Is that very happy to see them win but also it's that sort of tension that's been built up across the whole game?
01:51Absolutely.
01:52And you really didn't know which way it was going to go.
01:56I mean just listening to Stephen breathing at that end game he was like I was like oh my goodness.
02:02And so just the relief and they were so happy and I found their end and their love for each other incredibly moving.
02:11Why do you think they were able to make it to the end together?
02:14What do you think it was that was special about them?
02:16I think that I mean the entire cast are enough.
02:20I'm not just saying this because you're sitting opposite me.
02:23We're utterly magnificent.
02:25And what I loved about Rachel and Stephen from the very beginning you can almost watch it back knowing what you know now.
02:32They just looked after each other without being obvious without going no no no they're fine.
02:37If something came into play she was like all right I'm just going to do this to look after him and he would do the same for her.
02:42And they made that alliance and we've never seen that before.
02:45Lots of people make alliances and they last you know an episode five minutes.
02:50But they decided and not Romeo and Juliet because that ended badly.
02:55But Bonnie and Clyde I don't know but they they were they were lovers in the turret and they they stuck together.
03:04Claudia I think I think they edited a lot of that out actually.
03:08You know what I mean you know it was it was they were totally faithful to each other.
03:15And of course we have to talk about the big twist for this series the secret traitor.
03:20Yes.
03:21Why did you think Fiona would fit that role particularly.
03:23I mean how can we not.
03:25Look at her.
03:26Look at her.
03:27Well I mean Fiona was so convincing about how people treat women of a certain age and she was so twinkly.
03:36I just wanted to put her in my pocket.
03:39I absolutely loved her.
03:40So yeah we had to give her the red cloak.
03:42So of course we had a lot of amazing faithfuls this series.
03:44Amazing.
03:45Well one in particular was Jessie who was on to Stephen and would not let go of the Stephen theory.
03:52How did it feel at those round tables when Jessie was going after Stephen.
03:56Well it's extraordinary my not my favorite but always I love a Maddie.
04:00I love a jazz.
04:01I love a Jessie who knew I knew really early.
04:05And there was a brilliant moment when everybody's talking and Jessie goes off in.
04:10I think into the dining room going listen to them wanging on.
04:14Nobody's listening to me.
04:16Not quite like that you use better words.
04:18Yeah.
04:19But it was extraordinary.
04:22She laid it out the library five.
04:23She just laid it was all there and everybody went aww.
04:26And they love you.
04:27And they did love you.
04:29And you were they adored you.
04:32And they would go oh thank you Jessie.
04:34No I think it's probably you.
04:36And I was like she's got it.
04:38You are you are the series detective I think.
04:41Am I?
04:42Yeah I think so.
04:43Apologies Amanda.
04:46And the new detective.
04:48Oh no yeah well you're one of the only people who's not actually a police person.
04:51Yes.
04:52Yes.
04:53No.
04:54No.
04:55Because obviously we've had Jazz of the Christie in the past.
04:57Jazz of the Christie.
04:58So we've been trying to think of one for you.
04:59What can my name be?
05:00Jessica Fletcher.
05:01Jessica Fletcher.
05:02Oh okay.
05:03We're happy with that.
05:04Good.
05:05Love that.
05:06Harriet also extraordinary.
05:08Yes.
05:09I mean unbelievable.
05:10Yeah I mean yeah.
05:11Oh yeah.
05:12There's been there's been people vying for that for that title.
05:14I mean a huge amount of drama with Harriet in the talk to the traitors.
05:17It was the greatest.
05:19I think it was my favorite moment ever.
05:22And I am in the castle and I'm lucky enough that I have a monitor which I don't leave.
05:27I just like eating everything just staring at it.
05:30And you were talking to the traitors and I had to do something early the next morning
05:35and it was quite late as you know.
05:36And they said Claudia you've got to go home.
05:38And I was like do not even say that to me.
05:41And when you used the word compunction.
05:43Oh.
05:46It was almost erotic Harriet.
05:48And just the fact that you knew.
05:50You knew with Hugo as well.
05:52You were so brilliant.
05:54And then that breakfast.
05:55Yeah you were magnificent.
05:58Well as always Claudia it's been an absolute delight watching you on the show.
06:05And we know you don't like this bit.
06:07I can't bear it.
06:08But it's the uncloaked finale so we have to have a look at your best bit.
06:16Are they on their way?
06:18Good.
06:19Keep an eye on them.
06:21One thousand pounds added to the pot.
06:27And Sam might die.
06:29Harsh but true.
06:32Sorry.
06:33Don't mind my friends.
06:34They don't bite.
06:36If they're fed.
06:38Oh.
06:39No thank you.
06:40No thank you.
06:41I mean we've all had childcare days right now.
06:43Stop the murder.
06:45They're like a police officer.
06:47I know friendships have been formed.
06:51But please remember.
06:53A friend might be lying to you.
06:55A friend might be planning to murder you.
07:01Get dry.
07:02For goodness sake have a biscuit.
07:04Just when they think they know how to play.
07:07Bring it to me!
07:10Oh god.
07:11Sorry.
07:13Faithful.
07:14What are you thinking?
07:16I am genuinely speechless.
07:19Oh my god!
07:21Woo!
07:26Ha ha!
07:28I'm going to go and chop some cheese with it.
07:36We'll be talking to our endgame players very soon but I'm thrilled to now welcome to the stage James and finalist Jay!
07:42Yay!
07:43Yay!
07:46Welcome.
07:47Welcome to Uncloaked.
07:48Both of you are very excited to have you here with us.
07:51But James you were particularly forthright in your suspicions throughout.
07:54So let's have a look at the moment when you and Roxy finally found out who the traitors were.
07:59I think I might be in for a little bit of a shock but I have to ask what are you James?
08:17So you're assuming I'm...
08:18So you're assuming I'm...
08:19A traitor.
08:20Okay.
08:21Absolutely.
08:22I'm happy to confirm for you that I am...
08:25A...
08:27Traitful.
08:28Graceful.
08:29Grateful.
08:30Vengeful.
08:32Spiteful.
08:33Cheerful.
08:34Faithful.
08:35Oh my gosh!
08:36Oh my gosh!
08:37I'm the worst faithful!
08:38I'm the worst faithful in the land at this point.
08:40Me and you are just going out there.
08:41I even said like...
08:42There's a chunk of me that thinks me and you are just passionate faithfuls.
08:46We were!
08:47Seeing as you're not a traitor...
08:48I'm sorry.
08:49Who do you think they are?
08:50I think Rachel is.
08:51She's my number one.
08:52Okay.
08:53I'm fearing there's two.
08:55I think Faraz is the other one.
08:57Ooh!
08:58And if there's a third, which would be ridiculous, Stephen.
09:02Really?
09:03So you think Jack and Jade are 100% faithful?
09:05I just can't see it.
09:06Shall we find out?
09:07Yeah, let's do it.
09:08Some blind faithfuls.
09:09I don't even want to know now.
09:11This is horrendous.
09:12Here we go.
09:13Here we go.
09:18Stephen!
09:19Oh, my goodness!
09:21The little...
09:22Honestly, that's mental!
09:24It's so annoying.
09:25There's not another one.
09:29Ah!
09:30It's Rachel!
09:31Yes!
09:32Oh.
09:33Oh, wow.
09:34She's toast.
09:35She nearly went, Faraz.
09:36Wow, he wasn't.
09:37Oh, no.
09:38This is so mental.
09:39I am so sorry for coming at you so hard.
09:41Please don't be sorry.
09:42It kept me in the game and it probably kept you in the game.
09:48Incredible.
09:50And you can watch Roxy and James' reactions later in full on the BBC Sounds socials.
09:55Now, James.
09:56Hello, sir.
09:57You named both of the remaining traitors there as your suspicions.
10:01At what point did you suspect Rachel?
10:04Because I think you did have some suspicions before you left as well, of course.
10:06Yeah, slightly earlier than I laid out there, to be honest.
10:10It's the old...
10:11I think she likes me.
10:12I think she gets on with me.
10:13You know, the classic blinded by that.
10:14And I think she knows I trust her.
10:15But I don't.
10:16You know, it was just too many scrapes.
10:17I thought if I somehow get anyone near the endgame, I can't end it with her.
10:21And it was narrowing it down who you can end it with.
10:23Yeah.
10:24There weren't many.
10:25This young lady and Jack were the only two I could be as sure as I could be on from about halfway through onwards.
10:30So, I mean, you're pretty bang on the money, really.
10:33Yeah, I mean...
10:34But slightly too late.
10:35I find if you name every cast member at least once...
10:38James.
10:39What?
10:40James, I think everyone would agree you were a total force of nature in there.
10:44You were incredible every episode delivering something entertaining.
10:47And obviously ended it in fittingly dramatic style with the chest of chance.
10:51The second chest of chance of the series.
10:53The third chest of chance in two series of the traitors.
10:56Talk us through your final moments in the game with those chests.
10:59I mean, it sounds bizarre, but as a fanboy, I'm like, how have I got here?
11:03Traitor versus Faithful to get into the final.
11:06This is like the stuff of dreams.
11:07Like, how has this happened?
11:08Now, Jade, you initially voted for James in that final roundtable that he was there for.
11:14And then you switched your vote to Rachel.
11:16Why did you do that?
11:17Because she's smart.
11:20James' arguments were just not...
11:24It was just making me more confused.
11:26And then I was like, right, take a step back.
11:29Who should I actually be voting for here?
11:30Who did I walk into the room with?
11:32And it was Rachel.
11:33So I was like, this is an opportunity to rectify that wrong.
11:35Claudia, that's another third chest of chance, like I say, that we've had in two series.
11:39I can't.
11:40I can't even.
11:41I don't know what to say about it.
11:42Because I, yeah, I come in with a tray, which, by the way, is much heavier than it looks.
11:49So I'm like, hello.
11:51Um, yeah, but it's incredibly dramatic for everybody.
11:55And I think the final plea is a really good opportunity.
12:00Both you and Rachel did it brilliantly.
12:02And then the idea that two of you swapped, and then there was still a deadline.
12:06Oh, it was amazing.
12:07Yeah, both me and Jack swapping, and it was like, oh, no, we've both done it.
12:10Yeah.
12:11What do we do now?
12:12There have been a lot of theories going.
12:13I can tell from how they pick it up which one's got the...
12:15Oh, yeah.
12:16You can't tell.
12:17Absolutely not.
12:18James, you were absolutely convinced throughout the series that Matthew was a traitor.
12:22I still am.
12:23Even going...
12:24He's trick production, I'm telling you.
12:26He's such a smooth operator, that guy.
12:27He tried his best.
12:28He's amazing.
12:29He really wanted to be one.
12:30What were the biggest clues for you that Matthew was a traitor?
12:33I've never played poker to an amazing level, but I used to earn a living doing it for a while.
12:36And the first few seconds, the blindfold comes off.
12:39I was a bit cheesed off.
12:40It wasn't...
12:41I was doing that when Claudia walked behind me the whole time.
12:43That's all right.
12:44I forgive you.
12:45And everyone else was doing that.
12:48Obviously, I know a lot of them are acting.
12:49And Matthew was just stood like that.
12:51It looked like a deer in the headlights for a few seconds.
12:53And I did ask him, I thought you looked quite stunned.
12:55And he didn't really have an answer to it.
12:57And he's a really smart guy.
12:58I thought, this guy can carry it off.
13:00He turns on the style at the round tables.
13:01He hides in the shadows a bit.
13:03I'm the only one shouting his name.
13:04I must be keeping him in.
13:05I've solved it.
13:06No.
13:07I'll let you know.
13:08Matthew, what was it like in your final day in the castle,
13:11knowing that James had his sights set on you,
13:13and of course, he had the ceremonial dagger?
13:14Love you, mate.
13:15Yeah.
13:16You have to have hope.
13:18Because anything can happen.
13:20But I did feel like the odds were stacked against me.
13:23I do regret not making it plainly obvious at that last round table
13:27that I didn't think you were a traitor.
13:29Because I didn't.
13:30I just did not believe you were a traitor.
13:31No, no.
13:32You thought I was, though.
13:33Yeah.
13:34Right.
13:35Yeah.
13:36Hi.
13:37My family are very disappointed in me.
13:42It's feeling a lot more like an American chat show this year.
13:44Oh, yeah, yeah.
13:45You guys.
13:46But I just want to say this on behalf of...
13:49It's impossible if you don't know.
13:51Of course.
13:52Yeah, yeah.
13:53And it's so easy when you're watching the telly and you do.
13:55Jade, after James' departure following the chest of chance,
13:58you were confirmed as one of the final five.
14:00However, despite battling players' suspicions since the very first round table,
14:04they finally acted on them in this final episode.
14:07Let's take a look at the moment where you found out the identity of the traitors
14:10shortly after leaving the game.
14:16I did see it coming.
14:18I said I was being set up for banishment for a while now,
14:20so it did catch me off guard that it would happen so close to the final.
14:25You do start picturing who you're going to stand at that bonfire with,
14:28and I think when you start kind of picturing it in your head,
14:30you're manifesting it quite a lot.
14:32So, it was so close and, yeah, so far at the same time.
14:38I think there are two traitors left in the castle,
14:41and I think one of them is Faraz.
14:43Throughout the kind of whole of the game,
14:45I had to kind of take advantage of the situation that I was put in
14:49and see who was really pushing me for banishment.
14:52And Faraz, I feel like that round table was kind of desperate to get me banished.
14:56Like, everything that had been worked up at this point
14:59was suddenly kind of paying off.
15:01And I feel Rachel played a really instrumental role in that,
15:05because, you know, Jack, Steve and I are a little trio in a sense,
15:09so they've got to be working together, I think.
15:12After everything the traitors have put me through,
15:14I cannot wait to find out who they are.
15:16Rachel, yeah.
15:30It's difficult.
15:31Yeah, that.
15:33I mean, I said it, didn't I?
15:36I'm glad I was right about one thing.
15:39That's really gratifying to be in that situation.
15:42Stephen, okay.
15:48The thing is, right, when someone's that close to you,
15:53you don't look at it for what it is,
15:55and having walked out of that round table
15:57and seeing how he voted for me,
15:59it would have been too late to recognise who that person was.
16:02Damn.
16:03Stephen's playing a phenomenal game, 100%.
16:08Yeah.
16:11I've lost words, really.
16:13And Stephen, yeah, I've been in his back pocket.
16:16Yeah.
16:17Yeah.
16:18Stephen, Stephen had you in his back pocket.
16:19Yep.
16:20It's one of the benefits of wearing such massive trousers.
16:22I know.
16:23I'm a big person.
16:24A lot to unpack there from that reveal.
16:25Let's start with Rachel.
16:26You were suspicious of her
16:27and thought she and Faraz were playing as a traitor team.
16:29Had you had suspicions of Rachel earlier in the game
16:30or did the thoughts form a little bit later on?
16:31It was pretty early.
16:32There was a conversation that I'd had with Sam and Rachel in the kitchen.
16:35Um, where I, you know, told them about what had happened on the chariot mission.
16:50And that, that information got round so fast.
16:56Yeah.
16:57Um, and I was like, well, Sam was in a unique situation like I was.
17:02Rachel was the only other person in that room.
17:04And I was like, that's a little red flag.
17:06So it started then.
17:07And then, you know, Amanda and the, the, the policing training just kept being brought up regardless.
17:14And I was like, well, you're pushing a narrative and she's banished from the castle
17:18and you're still bringing up Amanda's name.
17:20So, yeah.
17:21And the Stephen reveal, uh, you mentioned that you, Stephen and Jack had been a bit of a trio.
17:26How did it feel seeing Stephen's name on the scroll?
17:29Um, I think after he'd written my name down.
17:34Um, at the round table, the, the pin dropped.
17:37And you don't quite realise how blind you are.
17:40Because I felt quite vulnerable going through the game because I'd had so much heat.
17:43And it was really important for me, especially to, like, have backing.
17:46People that I feel would have my back.
17:48And Stephen was just one of them.
17:50And then, yeah, when he put my name down, it was, oh, okay, right.
17:54You see the game in the moment, don't you?
17:56You see the game, you see literally how it's all played out.
17:58But then it's too late by then because you're going out the door.
18:01Of course.
18:02Now, one of the major theories around you being a traitor was that Amanda thought you were a traitor.
18:07And Amanda was in the police force.
18:08Yeah.
18:09Um, Amanda, how, how does it feel watching it back knowing that you were part of the game long after you left?
18:16I, I, I didn't realise I was going to be such a part of it when I was actually not in the castle.
18:22I just want to say, Jade, I apologise.
18:25We've apologised.
18:26I've apologised over beers.
18:27But I just want to apologise and say you played an absolute blinder all the way through.
18:32And you just kept going.
18:34So, well done to you.
18:36Well done to you.
18:37Great.
18:42Um, James and Jade, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you.
18:45Everyone give it up for finalist Jade.
18:46Jesse.
18:47James, uh, shortly, I'm going to ask you to join our front row of Traitfuls, uh, as they will now be known forevermore.
18:59Good man.
19:00Uh, now, Rachel and Stephen will be joining us very shortly for their very first post-win interview.
19:05But first, I'll be having a chat with our runners-up, Jack and Faraz.
19:08Here is the moment where they both found out the identities of the traitors just moments after leaving the endgame.
19:17Rachel!
19:18Grandma's dummy!
19:19Grandma's dummy!
19:20Oh, no!
19:21Oh, no!
19:22Oh, no!
19:23Here we go.
19:24Here we go!
19:25Rachel!
19:26And Stephen!
19:27Whoa!
19:28Rachel!
19:29Stephen!
19:30I knew it!
19:31Oh!
19:32Oh!
19:33Oh!
19:34Oh!
19:35Oh!
19:36Oh!
19:37Oh!
19:38Oh!
19:39Oh!
19:40Oh!
19:41Oh!
19:42Oh!
19:43Oh!
19:44Oh!
19:45Oh!
19:46Oh!
19:47Oh!
19:48Oh!
19:49Oh!
19:50Oh!
19:51Oh!
19:52Oh!
19:53At least I got one right.
19:54I got...
19:55I got one out of four.
19:56They obviously had a tactic, they had a strategy.
19:59Uh, and they executed it with perfection, because they've won.
20:02Stephen definitely played a smart game.
20:04So, I was...
20:05So, I was on to Stephen when he came back into the Mazz as well.
20:08as well oh mate i actually am not bad at this game then to be fair i just need to stop changing my
20:14mind it is nice to know i was the last remaining faithful in the game and i can leave this game
20:23with my head held high knowing that i played with integrity honesty and i was just myself
20:31rachel and stephen of defos took the coin home and split it uh yeah i feel sorry for jack i think
20:36he'll be absolutely good but yeah rachel and stephen to be fair to him especially rachel i feel if she
20:41deserves it the game she's played a huge round of applause please for tracer's finalist ferraz and
20:50jack welcome welcome to your time folks ferraz let's start with you uh talk us through that final
21:00day in the game how were you feeling the final day was honestly a blur like i think i was just buzzing
21:05to be there to be honest and then obviously breakfast just stuck my face and that rid himself
21:09for the day but no honestly it was just it was just an unreal feeling just making it there's so many
21:15shots of you just absolutely wolfing down food i'm a i'm a growing lad aren't i i'm a growing lad i need
21:20i need my five a day my mission that was my mission it's not the missions in the day he's getting the
21:24food you know five a day relates to fruit and vegetables and not full meal yeah five plates jack
21:30what about you same question what was your plan for that final day it's so hard isn't it like when you
21:34come into the final day like we're all looking forward to the mission i was absolutely buzzing
21:38for the mission but your head is just so mangled at that point and i know as the viewers you sit
21:43there you think oh it's so easy it's so obvious but my head was a total mess about who to vote for
21:47you know it's so hard coming to that last round table but yeah what about you jade because obviously
21:53you're going into that final day are you worried that you're going to go before the end game could
21:56you see the right i was set up for banishment my my days were so limited i made my peace with it
22:01very early on and i was like i will not go gently into that night um but yeah i mean i i'm amazed i
22:08got as far as i did to be honest but i knew it was just an hour of time um faraz now you've also been
22:13dubbed as a bit of a detective this series faraz of the christie's been flying around oh yes long
22:18laughing well you went for rachel i think we were all it was limbs in my house we were so excited he's
22:25gonna get rachel and then you sort of had a little bit of a nap and changed your mind
22:29what was it that made your suspicions wane i think it was just the way she reacted yeah uh to me as
22:37soon as around the table like she was so calm and i resonated with the fact that if you were to stand
22:42up there as a faithful you want to just rub it in the face sort of as a last hurrah and that's exactly
22:46what i would have felt so i think it was just that and i was like yeah that's like obviously as a
22:51faithful knowing why i am i thought that that's it that it probably she's not a traitor in that
22:57sort of respect i guess you're you it's so difficult isn't it that yeah you decide one thing and then
23:03probably so easily convincing the other direction because you simply don't know that's what it is
23:06like when you're in the castle when you're playing the game things change like a matter of moments and
23:10you can't really anticipate where things are going to go and to be fair where she was like really
23:15convincing and stuff and she was smart she was calculating she knew what she was doing yeah so yeah and she
23:21was organized i mean if you've now seen the the rachel and stephen plotting pre-end game they were
23:26organized they knew what they were doing do you think there's anything that you two could have done
23:31to stop them pre-end game i think we probably could have had a few more chats couldn't we and just sort
23:36of had that plan in place like i said that plan to you i didn't even follow it myself so
23:43we've been over a hundred times haven't we it's it's endlessly frustrating you go over and over but
23:47i think the reality is like particularly in that very last round table or the end game
23:53i was sort of set on rachel frazz was on stephen and we were both going for traitors but just two
23:57different traitors yeah i think we just weren't voting together i think that was the thing wasn't
24:01i think it's hard to accept the fact that we were both right and both wrong i know yes you were very
24:05won over by faraz jack you you seem to be siding with him why did you choose him over rachel i just i think
24:12frazz and i had had a little like bro bro bond on day one like yeah on day one like we sat next
24:18to each other on the train we just clicked straight away and i just he was one of those people i had
24:21a little had a little book and i wrote who i thought was like faithful who i thought was
24:24trait and i put a percentage on it and frazz was pretty much always a hundred percent faithful for
24:28me the whole way through at the very end there was that small slither of doubt but like as there
24:33is for all the players you know i mean but it's just it was so hard at the end and i think as well
24:38ironically steven was someone i had as almost the whole way through 100 vote for it's only at the
24:43very end that i started to look at him which is crazy considering all the evidence that was put
24:47against him throughout the game but it just goes to show doesn't it it's such a hard game well look
24:51you are all fantastic players we loved watching you a massive round of applause for faraz jack and jay
25:00well the time has come to finally hear from our winners rachel and steven here's the moment
25:07the traitor sees their historic win i'll be honest i had moments where i was doubting what i was going
25:14to do tonight but i had i i couldn't go back on my word to you it just wasn't worth the money and i
25:22couldn't i couldn't have walked out of here by by lying to you two traitors but totally faithful to each
25:30other you did it you absolutely did it congratulations i'm so proud of you honestly i'm so proud of you
25:45welcome welcome welcome both of you congratulations thank you very much our two traitor champions you
25:58are both incredible throughout the game i want a quick reflection from both of you how does it feel
26:02watching that back rachel you first of all a lot more emotional than i remember um i don't think it
26:08was like letting my nerves shine through because i knew what i was going to do but i was so nervous
26:13with steven so watching it back it kind of it got me a little bit made me cry nervous that he was
26:18going to change his mind nervous that i wasn't going to change his mind yeah i don't know what
26:24goes on on that little head of his you don't want to what about you steven how does it feel watching
26:29it back unlike rachel i didn't know what i was going to do um and watching it back i mean
26:36i think i can i can see in my face um i've got quite an expressive face as you might have picked
26:45up on already um you know you're just a meme generator now yeah yeah every emotion possible
26:52see i never knew i had an expressive face so this is news to me um and what face did you make when you
26:57found out but yeah i think just watching it back you know i'm just so so proud of the decision that
27:09that i made proud of myself and just proud of the the game that that rachel played as well i think
27:14it couldn't really go any better so well let's talk about the pact the pact that you made by the family
27:19tree that you wouldn't write each other's names down on the slate i will hold my hands up and apologize
27:24that every single episode of uncloaked when the pact comes up i say the pact's worth nothing we
27:28know we were watching and i couldn't wait for this moment to be fair to me his history told me that
27:37the packs would not stick no one has ever stuck to a pact like that even the people making the
27:41pact know that they're not going to stick to it so both of you in that moment when you made it you
27:45thought we're absolutely sticking to it i knew i knew from the minute come out of my mouth i wouldn't
27:50break it i knew that and i just thought you have to think really fast in this game and you have to
27:55kind of navigate and go with the flow um and i just thought at that moment no this is a new game for me
28:00and i'm not breaking that yeah um that's not what i was thinking um i i it's so hard to trust someone in
28:10there whose job it is to lie you know and so yeah i was really struggling to to see how rachel could hold on
28:19to that pact for the whole game um which is why towards the end like i was wobbling big time um
28:27i'm just so glad that she's a woman of her word well you both had a lot of stuff to deal with
28:32throughout the whole game obviously the secret traitor the dastardly fiona um when fiona revealed
28:38herself uh did you initially trust her stephen did you did you think you could trust her i did
28:45yeah i think myself and fiona got on really well um and if there was anyone that i wanted it to be
28:53i wanted it to be fiona but i didn't think it would be um i was so trapped when she walked into that
29:00turret yeah we we all were yeah yeah yeah i don't think we all were no
29:05no well rachel obviously uh you came to blows with fiona a little bit yeah um when when she accused
29:18herself uh in the kitchen talk us through that moment what what was going through your mind
29:23i just thought this is this is great crack i was like this because i was nervous for the first part
29:28of the game and then and i love games i am so competitive i love them and fiona reminded me
29:34that this is a game these are all adults going to play a game it was like the laughs we had but yeah
29:41it took me about three seconds when she dropped her cloak and i just thought no no she dropped the
29:46head and i was like no she's going to throw me under the bus i just didn't think she was going to move
29:51like was it when she's in bolt and just straight away go for me but she's phenomenal i mean bringing the
29:56cloak back and saying haven't i been wonderful was probably she loved it and that line i'm drunk
30:02on par i was like i know you are she made it so much fun and like that reaction in the kitchen when
30:09she says i think you're a traitor and i burst out laughing i thought this is brilliant yeah it was
30:13hilarious well how did that feel for you claudia because obviously you weren't in the kitchen when
30:17that happened i was watching i was watching and my mouth was i mean i had to hold it up with both my
30:22hands and my feet i was like what is going on what's happening what no fiona stop stop stop can
30:30i just go down no you can't can i just could i just get a message to write something in an apple
30:36it was unbelievable but yeah you acted very fast you were like no no i'm not doing this come on
30:41everybody i need to tell everyone yeah fiona um were you disappointed that stephen sided with rachel
30:46at your final round time no not at all um i i knew my time was up to be honest with you and i just loved
30:55every minute and i've said all the way along it was team traitor i wanted you to to be there and some i
31:02just had the best fun ever it was wonderful and to play with all these wonderful people all my
31:11contestants here was oh i can't begin to tell you how excited i was every single day rachel you barely
31:19got a chance to relax after that uh you barely got a chance to relax because then you had a showdown
31:24with harriet um was that something you were expecting in the talk to the traitors no you talk about being
31:32blindsided and me and harriet had a lovely relationship in the castle and i remember sitting in the library and
31:38we were just chatting about the questions and i thought per harriet's knackered and she can't
31:42come up with the questions and blah blah blah and i just thought right it's it's maddie that we need
31:46to worry about he's going to blindside us and then when the boots come in and the round table at
31:51traders pic claudia's boots are like clunk clunk clunk sorry that was nothing on harriet walking in
31:59because it's obviously you know it's very quiet the boots come in and then she started speaking and i
32:03thought i i just want to go home she scared the life out of me but it was brilliant it was absolutely
32:09brilliant harriet how does it feel to see rachel get so far and then win the game despite your best
32:14efforts oh i mean i've been beaten by the master and she is superb she is i think that that when you see
32:22how an alliance formed between traitors just wipes the floor with everyone i mean i'm so pleased that you
32:30stuck to it both of you to the end and i mean rachel watching you through the whole series you've just
32:36been fantastic so calm collected strategic completely outplayed all of us you know brilliant badass yeah
32:51but of course both of you flew perilously close to the sun on numerous occasions uh i mean there was one
32:58moment everyone was talking about when you were next to the family tree trying to work out how to
33:02mark the people on the family tree and of course reese was stood there um you were worried you were
33:09worried about that weren't you stephen that that reese had seen you both next to the family tree
33:13yeah and was sent i was sent away so you could have a conversation yeah when when rachel asked
33:18reese to leave i think you saw my world disintegrate in front of my eyes no hang on he offered to leave
33:24the offer to leave okay sorry i'm rewriting i'm rewriting history um but i was terrified um
33:32i mean i don't know how how he didn't bring it up the next day sorry reese well i mean luckily we've
33:37given him a microphone so how did you not bring that up i'm sweating i'm sweating for one right now um
33:42the battering i've had by the way family friends even cast of a mental um it's hard to see like the next
33:51day we had the early banishment obviously it was ross my name was already being thrown through the
33:56dirt and i was never stephen fair playton was hard on pushing on maswa's at the family tree last month
34:01and i was never going to be like so was i by the way like it was i was also there so i was just in my
34:06chair sitting down that no one mentioned me and then i was like i'll mention it after the table if i
34:10get through no you won't you'll go in a cage and then fiona won't bother try and get you out the cage
34:14so you'll stay in the cage and then it just one thing led to another and it just never came up for me but
34:18was i a bit naive uh i'll let you answer that but you didn't want to implicate yourself essentially
34:24you didn't want to put yourself next to the family tree as well as rachel and steve i was
34:27just trying to learn latin i don't know what's what's the deal here they tell it i walked out
34:31of the kitchen they didn't come with me let's go guys people go into the castle for different
34:34reasons and i think latin is an admirable educational purposes i reckon um steven you also had to get
34:40through the library five theory i did uh which was absolutely it's a spot-on theory from jesse
34:46the library five theory yeah um but it didn't really gain traction um how do you think you got
34:50away with that um i hope and a prayer i think to be honest um it is that i think was the first time
34:59i realized that i wasn't really cut out to play this game strategically i just like i made that move
35:06and it wasn't until jesse brought it up to me the next day and said i think ross has been framed
35:11i was shocked that i had got myself into that mess um and i knew then i had to play more of a social
35:18game than a strategic game because i clearly wasn't very good at like seeing where the lines would lead
35:24back to me um i'm i'm amazed that i'm amazed i'm sat here in the first place to be honest i think jesse
35:31is such a switched on person and every single thing she said about me obviously was 100 accurate
35:40and just a phenomenal player i think really should be so proud of herself with how she came across
35:45because just an amazing person so well done yes
35:51there were um amongst you as tracers there are a couple of verbal slip-ups as well i mean we saw in
35:57um in that final episode rachel you saying if i was a faithful uh big big whoopsie i can't even
36:04remember saying that oh so you didn't even register it when you said it did you not hear the cameras all
36:10zoom in on you i watched it and then i thought oh god i can't remember those words coming out of my
36:16mouth and then luckily nobody else really remember yeah i don't even remember saying it i was i was too
36:21focused on jack is upset i was too busy crying i didn't even notice i think i was too busy eating
36:27blueberries yeah did you so you guys didn't notice any any slip-ups from these two there were no alarm
36:34bells going for steven do you remember that time at the table i saw a tick tock of you saying when we
36:39discussed this last night instead of this morning as in last night in the turret and none of us clocked
36:43that you said it yeah i did i did see when i i thought about this last night and again like rachel i
36:49have no recollection of saying that um and when i watched that episode back i was screaming at
36:54the tv like what are you doing you know um but i think you can also tell that i didn't quite
37:00realize the gravity of the mistake i'd made because i think if i had known that i'd slipped up so badly
37:05yeah i would have then continued to like you know degrade from there on um so i think i just
37:11didn't realize i made the mistake and that's for the best isn't it because if you're then digging
37:15a hole and next thing you're saying you am into a tracer you know yeah i am what i am
37:19yeah yeah yeah exactly i think i think whilst you're there as well you sometimes give people
37:23benefit the doubt because yeah everything's happening so fast and stuff like daft little
37:27slip-ups like that doesn't seem daft now like that like you sort of let people get away with because
37:32people can stumble over the words and stuff like that so sometimes you do let it fly under the radar
37:37that's exactly right and also not to harp back alan carr couldn't say the words i am a faithful that
37:42bursting out laughing and everyone else around and went oh yeah so again when you're in there
37:49when you're in the castle somebody says something it doesn't lodge no yeah please don't compare these
37:54people to the celebrity faithful those guys were awful um you you guys did you notice rachel and
38:01steven being close in the castle did you see them like chatting to each other or uh this was the thing
38:06that really frustrated me because i had a little notebook and i wrote down everyone's names and i
38:11drew lines from who i saw would talk to each other and the only two people and i didn't realize this
38:16till way too late um the only two lines i didn't draw a name between was steven and rachel literally
38:22never saw them and i was literally staring at that paper like who is not connected but it was
38:26literally in front of me yeah i think they'd done well to uh sort of hide in plain sight really because
38:32i was the same didn't really notice them speaking not bad for her grandma yeah i want to get to get
38:40a tattoo of grandma's dummy that is so funny brilliant um rachel now the question on everyone's lips uh
38:47let's talk fbi training tell us more about this fbi training what did it entail is it available to the
38:54rest of us so i was very careful with my words i said i did it i was trained by a former fbi agent
39:02that's correct but a really loose interpretation of it so the four month online course was
39:10more like a one day course and an e-book oh but still by a former fbi agent so it was um tactical
39:18skills and negotiating with difficult people and there was 21 very difficult people in that castle
39:23and um the art of micro expressions and stuff which you know i just thought if i have something there
39:29that i tried if i was a faithful i had skills or i prepared but that just it's taken on a life of
39:35its own well and it probably put the fear of god into people as well when you're announcing that you've
39:38got fbi training did did that did that did that scare you when you heard that yeah you're saying to
39:43frazz that i had a clench my jaw and obviously you're going to believe it yeah i was like yeah i've seen
39:48that i've seen that i don't think i ever i says i said jade had a clench in your jaw on this side and
39:55he says yeah i've seen it and he's sitting this side i don't think you would have seen that one
40:02but like it's the art of distraction is anything but me don't speak about me and just speak about
40:07somebody else out there so it works that's what i love so much about you two is you did it for each
40:11other throughout when you watch it back from the moment that you decided and that was i'm not saying
40:18a casual alliance but you were in a hall where people were looking and you did it it's not like
40:22let's sit down and work this out you just decided i love the fact that anybody came for one of you
40:27the other person picked something up and just went look over there yeah yeah and people didn't see
40:32that very often you know yeah but we did have each other amazing up until the end we did well we did
40:38have each other's back and i think that was the hardest thing to have each other's backs
40:42silently yeah you know like and obviously you saw my face drop when rachel told me in the turret that
40:48you know if if i hear that she's been saying my name not to panic and what i mean the first thing
40:53i do is panic right but i think it's just up until that point we had been really good and i think for
41:00her to when she said that to me it was absolutely the right thing to do right we can't as traitors be
41:05defending each other yeah too overtly but yeah i think up until that point i just always thought
41:11you had you were kind of actively defending me which obviously would have been really stupid because
41:16look at me um and and yes i think that's when i started to panic kind of towards the latter part
41:21of the game and maybe start to throw your name out a bit too much i think at the end well rachel the
41:26big panic for you in the game was the chest of chance you came so close to being banished can you
41:30talk us through that round table do you know what myself and james have spoken about this and it
41:35was oddly amazing it was one of those ones because i'm a big believer in what's for you
41:41you know it's meant to be and i thought right chances deciding this so if it's not in the chest
41:47so be it stand up hold your head high and walk out you know it's it's up to fate and then when we
41:53opened it and i seen it i thought oh my god i've just scraped by by the skin of my teeth but it was
41:59like it was a brilliant moment it was a lot of fun for you maybe until the cliffhanger at which point
42:04every living room in the country was smashed a piece now obviously you said to steven i'm gonna
42:09have to talk i'm gonna have to talk about you uh being a traitor um but how did it feel hearing
42:14steven talk about you being a traitor at the round table and throwing accusations like we knew it was
42:19coming and we knew weren't you know you can't hide in that game and you have to throw names out so
42:25we knew it was coming but it still takes you by surprise do you know when his face just told me
42:32he was gunning for me and i thought this is a different face to the turret face um but yeah
42:38it had to be done it was slightly unnerving but we kind of did you feel the same way steven when the
42:43accusations were being thrown at you from rachel at the round table yeah surprisingly like i think
42:48i think rachel had more trust in me than i had in her um and yet at the round table i think i gave her
42:54a harder time than she gave me um but yeah anytime anytime i heard anyone saying my name i mean i was
43:04perspiring profusely and you know i would look the same color as your shoes you know so yeah i was
43:11terrified never heard my name but i think knowing that knowing that rachel could have been going behind
43:16my back and i know how influential rachel was in that castle and i think we all kind of were in
43:22awe really of how rachel moved around the circles and everyone and just has such a kind of gravity in
43:27her in her way of conducting herself and so i just knew that i stood no chance if i just didn't say
43:33anything about rachel you know because she could say one line and it would just take me down so yeah i
43:39was terrified we think on uncloats that a lot of your perspiring was down to the fact you wore
43:43really big jumpers um let's let's talk about your fashion sense in general because it's been an
43:48absolute delight this series thank you very much thinking god i hope stephen doesn't get banished
43:53because i want to see for breakfast tomorrow you know so i before going into the castle um
44:01i know i've got a very red face right so this is something that you know my partner did say to me
44:07what the hell are you going to do about your face in there and well so i thought if i distract them
44:13from the neck down maybe they won't notice the neck up and so i just i thought if i wear clothes that are
44:22a bit flamboyant and loud then maybe they'll just be going oh stephen you look really great
44:27rather than looking up here and going you're a traitor you know so it was all kind of tactics and i do also
44:33just love kind of that kind of fashion as well but um i do think it kind of helped distract a little
44:39bit well you look fantastic i mean i obviously get the episodes a little bit early so we can do
44:42uncloaked and i watch the first episode and everyone's going what do you think of it everyone
44:46who works on uncloats and i said where did stephen get his jacket from yeah you and the rest of the
44:50country are asking me the same question tailor-made apparently above your station already
44:58finally what what does the money mean to you both rachel let's start with you
45:01like it just means an opportunity for my family do you know um a nice time nice memories and lots
45:09of fun and that's what it's all about what about you stephen i think like i said um you kind of start
45:17to realize how much your your kind of family gave up for you when you were younger and i think just
45:21being able to hopefully try and give something back um would just be just be great for me i just really
45:27hope i can do for them what they've done for me previously so well look you've all been absolutely
45:32incredible thank you so much to all five of you for coming on uncloats and entertaining us
45:36so effortlessly throughout the whole course of the game a massive round of applause for our finalists
45:41the chat continues in your bbc sound bonus episode with more from jack ferraz jade steven rachel and claude
45:59we're going to get loads more reaction from our finalists to all the gameplay this series
46:04and for the first time ever we're putting questions to the players from you the listener
46:08to hear that just scan the on-screen qr code or search for us in your bbc sounds app it really
46:13is that simple now if you've seen all the fun our players have had and all the cash our winners
46:17have won and you fancy your chances then why not apply to be on series five just head to bbc.co.uk
46:23forward slash take part where you'll find all the info you need and if you can't get enough
46:28traitors then the first two episodes of the traitors island are now available on bbc iplayer
46:33and that's that this series had it all fake jobs hidden relationships a confessional booth
46:38a ceremonial dagger a secret traitor one enormous outburst around the kitchen island and a cat
46:43amongst the pigeons roxy what more could you ask for thank you for watching this series of uncloaked
46:50uncloaked i'm ed gamble stay faithful
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