Air Vice Marshal Kapil Kak (Retd) EXCLUSIVE | How India Can Take PoK Amid Growing Chinese Influence - video Dailymotion

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In this hard-hitting EXCLUSIVE, Air Vice Marshal Kapil Kak (Retd) shares his expert insights on the complex geopolitics surrounding Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK). Can India reclaim PoK while navigating the growing influence of China in the region? What are the strategic challenges posed by China’s presence and the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC)?    #PoK #KapilKak #ChinaIndiaConflict #PakistanOccupiedKashmir #CPEC #IndianDefense #SouthAsiaGeopolitics #IndiaPakistanConflict #KashmirIssue #World   00:00:10 - Introduction: Air Vice Marshal Kapil Kak 00:00:45 - Pakistan Occupied Kashmir: Complex Issues 00:01:21 - Political Unrest and Protests in POK 00:03:17 - Governance Crisis and Local Discontent 00:07:03 - Economic and Social Unrest in POK 00:08:34 - Development Comparison: J&K vs POK 00:09:51 - China's Growing Role in Gilgit Baltistan 00:12:06 - Pakistan's Strategic Challenges and Regional Unrest 00:14:04 - Diplomatic Efforts and Government in Exile Debate 00:15:26 - China-Pakistan Nexus: India's Security Challenge 00:17:10 - Pakistan's Support for Terrorism and CPEC Security 00:19:16 - India-China Relations and Economic Growth Impact 00:22:54 - India's Stance on Kashmir and International Perception 00:24:00 - Article 370 and Kashmir Integration Complexities 00:26:51 - Insurgency, Democracy and Kashmiri Pandit Crisis 00:29:34 - Recent Elections and Governance Challenges in J&K 00:30:49 - Need for Proactive and Democratic Kashmir Policy 00:32:14 - Emotional Integration of Kashmiris with India  🔊 LIKE ➡ SHARE ➡ SUBSCRIBE  Download the Asianet News App now!  Available on Android & iOS  👉 Android:  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vserv.asianet&hl=en_IN   👉 iOS:  https://apps.apple.com/in/app/asianet-news-official/id1093450032   For More Updates:  Follow us on our What's app Channel: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029Va5Bq3yKwqSLSQTxam0r  English: https://newsable.asianetnews.com/  Hindi: https://hindi.asianetnews.com/  Malayalam: https://www.asianetnews.com/  Kannada: https://kannada.asianetnews.com/  Tamil: https://tamil.asianetnews.com/  Telugu: https://telugu.asianetnews.com/  Bengali: https://bangla.asianetnews.com/  Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AsianetNewsa...  Follow us on Twitter:  https://twitter.com/AsianetNewsEN  Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ann.newsable/  ➡ If you like our video, give us a thumbs up and subscribe to our channel to get the daily dosage of news, entertainment, sports and more.

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00:00so in our special series in focus i have with me today air vice marshal karl kak he is a retired

00:15officer of the indian air force with over 35 years of service including active participation in the

00:231965 and 1971 indopark wars he has also represented india in a number of conferences on international

00:31security and strategic issues and he has also been associated with initiatives on india park peace

00:37process and conflict resolution in jammu and kashmir thank you so much air vice marshal kapil kak for

00:43joining here at asianet news and looking forward for your perspective on pakistan occupied kashmir

00:49and the issues plaguing the region thank you heena and such a pleasure and a delight to be on asianet

00:56news services uh this is an important issue that you're raised and i'm sure uh there will be a lot

01:05of interest in what you have to say on an issue which has for the time being at least been curtailed

01:12there has been some agreement but as we will discuss uh this is not the end of the story i want to take

01:19one by one political and the security situation in pok which is an inalienable part of india

01:26an integral part of india so politically speaking of course earlier in the month we saw protests

01:32happening in pok but yesterday what we saw is that pmnl withdrew the support from the ruling so-called

01:39puppet government in pakistan occupied kashmir which has been run by islamabad now talk to me a little

01:46bit about your assessment of governance situation in pok because in 2022 there was a change after

01:53imran khan was ousted but since 2022 we have not seen much happening in the political discourse though

02:00there have been protests happening but what do you see is the future of the governance from pakistan's

02:05side in the pok which is an integral part of india couple of things are important first and foremost

02:11the uh protests that we talk about i link it with the question that you have raised why there is not

02:18much political activity and actually this may be a mask for a deeper discontent within the people of

02:29pakistan occupied kashmir economic uh deprivation the denial of certain rights uh problems of education

02:40health care power uh not meeting basic needs of the people of course raises uh it's not happening in the

02:49rest of pakistan uh obviously there is much more discontent in pok than there is in the rest of pakistan or

02:58maybe uh the ruling dispensation in islamabad and also uh the main actor behind the government which is

03:07not in behind the government but the head of the government is that in alpindi the pakistan army

03:13uh the situation in pok it's you know let me sort of contextualize it first and foremost uh there is a

03:26there is a disjunction the disjunction is pok is supposed to be it's called azad kashmi

03:34it's supposed to be azad it has a president no other territorial unit of pakistan is has a president it

03:45has a prime minister it has a legislative assembly but actual day-to-day control of pakistan occupied

03:55kashmir is in the hands of the pakistani government in islamabad and also to a large extent with the

04:02pakistan army ghq in in raul pitti so this disjunction has caused and continues to cause a lot of

04:13discontent and distrust much more is the distrust because we must not forget the protests were against

04:21pakistan army they were against pakistani government not so much against the local government because

04:28the ok people vice people they also know the local government has very limited powers

04:36it doesn't have the economic muscle it doesn't have the financial resources so it can only do what's

04:42given to them by pakistan main state and that delivery of health services or education or power

04:52i mean very simple example uh now that you raise the issue miracle generates 14 i mean the mangala dam

04:59generates 1400 megawatts of power 85 percent of that power goes to panjab and send it doesn't go to

05:08mirpur so what are you expecting the mirpuris to do this is an international dimension because me

05:16puri have a very strong presence in london which gives them in uk and particularly in that it gives

05:25them a say in what is happening to their parent home in murko and they have all migrated 40 50 years ago

05:35some even before independence some after the second world war which had a lot of mirpuris as uh as

05:42jawans in the in the then indian army but who were fighting on behalf of uk so there is this political

05:52the other is you see uh you know the demand that i think is also not quite realistic i mean the demand

06:01of abolition of the political privileges by the government and what are the and the elite the

06:09so-called ruling elite this remind requires to be heightened because the leadership which has actually

06:18initiated this it started incidentally for your viewers this is not the first time we have a

06:25unrest in pok it started in may 2023 and in fact in fact it was in august 23 that the you know the joint

06:36awami action committee was formed and the purpose was to agitate for their economic social and political

06:45rights and when you talk about uh 2024 which is last year once again there was a massive unrest but it

06:57was contained again through the usual communication blackout ruby you know internet was off communications

07:06were off and virtually curfew like conditions prevailed and so they could not agitate they could not come

07:14out in the open and that was curtail but to in all fairness 2024 uh the promises made uh were partly fulfilled

07:25these related to certain educational and power not so much education as power i mean uh that power charges

07:35will reduce and uh the price of wheat in the market that will be brought down and that happened

07:42but apparently the discontent is so much that it keeps sprouting uh uh like being a beans that sprout

07:53uh so i don't see this as the end of the day uh we are not conscious of what is happening in

08:02a kilgit baltistan there also there is a lot of discontent but somehow because kilgit baltistan is the

08:10smaller population uh the pakistani government is able to control it better the other factor which we do

08:19not sort of keep in mind is that much of this discontent is also because people in this you know

08:2824 by 7 communication age every second you can press a button and you're talking to somebody across

08:35so they look at the india it's our own jnk and see that they don't single airport functioning in ajk

08:45or pok as we call it not a single airport there was an airport in muzaffarabad not functioning last two

08:52years on the contrary there's an international airport in srinagar which has crow flies is not even 200

09:00kilometer likewise the airport in lay airport in jammu then they see the developmental prospects on our

09:08side of jnk so that comparison then drives them to frustration that we are the same jnk state princely

09:18state of jnk where pakistan invaded in 47 and is in occupation of us part of the state not part actually

09:28major geographical part of jnk is with pakistan right our jnk is much better if we leave out ladakh

09:37so you just mentioned gilgit baltistan this is one region where china is expanding its china pakistan

09:43economic corridor in not only gilgit baltistan i must also mention uh the roads that china is building in

09:49shakhskam valley now these are contentious regions these are integral part of india do you think in

09:56your perspective that we can only resolve the pakistan occupied kashmir issue if we resolve these

10:02issues with china first you must not forget heena that the reason why pakistan gave the shakhskam valley

10:13approximately 5000 odd square kilometers to china why that gift some say it was because of rare earths and

10:25water because that area has a lot of glaciers and therefore a lot of water but strategically

10:33and in terms of security it was to give pakistan a leeway into the state of jammu kashmir pakistan had

10:43this leeway in the state of jammu kashmir in aksaich which is in ladakh which is far away and which

10:52which doesn't directly in uh you know involve kashmir valley or the pakistan occupied kashmir

11:00so it was it was an intention that you need to give the big brother some entry this may seem very

11:08uh very uh prim and proper from the pakistani security perspective but we know what is happening

11:18to the chinese who have come into pakistan to build the the road the rail link uh from ilkitt pakistan

11:30right up to wadah in the arabian sea and you have yourself i'm sure is a very thoughtful

11:38analytical journalist you have seen how many of these chinese have been killed through direct

11:44actions and targeting by baluchistan insurgents and what do what is the baluch problem baluch problem

11:51is that it is resource rich it is vastly populated very large area of pakistan and pakistani government

12:01over the decades that have passed exploits the resources of this so why is there so much unrest in

12:08baluchistan and this raises a bigger question that pakistan can do so little for pakistan

12:15occupied kashmir it is facing a problem on the eastern borders with india on the line of control

12:23it has a huge problem with the taliban its own creation in afghanistan and you know what has

12:29happened pakistanis have been airstrikes in that room and we had their foreign minister mutaki come here

12:36and we have now decided to have not a full-fledged ambassador but upgrade the technical mission to an

12:43embassy with the charge of their friends so you see the problems pakistan is sort of it's uh it's cornered

12:51into uh and uh i would say security and strategic wagmire afghanistan on the one side india on the other

13:01side economy is in doldrums baluchistan is unmanageable the ok is in up in arms balbaristan national front in

13:11in gilkut pakistan has also got huge grievances we don't know when that bomb will explode we are not

13:17sure it is the people themselves who will do what they want to do so i'm afraid the situation for pakistan

13:24is grim and one will have to watch the current government is of course taken a step after

13:32not just after by saran and palgam but even before that many many years before that from 2019

13:40after pakistan bombed down its high commission left only the skeleton staff here in new delhi

13:46and that has not changed that situation hasn't changed for six years

13:51so india pakistan bilateral is grim uh there is targeting uh there is no understanding and i think

14:01the day must not be far when you can sort of get some modicum of normalcy i'm not saying peaceful

14:09relation but it is normalcy in the diplomatic relation a lot of pok activists you also mentioned

14:16some people living in london who have ties with the region left the region 40 50 years ago these

14:24people they uh urge to set up some sort of government in exile which consists of refugees

14:31from the region to pressurize pakistan to hand over this region to india we also need to have

14:37some sort of uh you know active diplomacy going on do you think that this is one way forward and how

14:43effective it can be no i think uh it would be our government would be uh hesitant to openly espouse

14:54the cause of meepurries for the larger question that pok is the part of india and therefore uh

15:02pakistan must vacate that area uh we can look at peace uh moving forward there are many many creative and

15:11uh imaginative solutions to our crisis we also have a crisis because we have pakistan and china

15:20two countries which are our neighbors who are in cahoots with each other i don't have to tell your

15:27viewers that the indian air force in operation sindhu was fighting one front with two countries

15:38you see question of after all we have 65 of our armed forces equipment weapons aircraft ships whatever

15:51army equipment all from russia but but russia is not helping us fight wars it's only given us

15:59but in the case of china pakistan china is not only given them equipment but also help them in op sindhu to

16:11target our assets our airborne assets which were flying not in pakistan but within the territory of india

16:19so it is a very it's a very serious security situation it demand a great deal of diplomacy creativity uh

16:30military modernization how you how you uh move on the international space stage to expose uh the nexus as

16:42it exists so this is a pakistan china nexus in strategic and security term for india in the decades ahead is a

16:52very very serious issue so much will depend on our skill our diplomacy our military capability uh improved

17:03military capability as a deterrent against any misadventure uh like uh like by saran or its upgrades or its

17:14follow-up in the years to come those must not be ruled out so preparedness level must be the highest

17:21that are possible in the given scenario so the security situation if we talk about of pakistan

17:27occupied kashmir sleeper cells inside of pok pakistan is supporting harboring training camps to train

17:34terrorists over there and then carry out cross-border terrorism what is it that we can do there are

17:41multiple ways by which pakistan can be dissuaded first and foremost is its internal security dimension

17:52if chinese are hesitant to move forward on the cpec incidentally the cpec has not moved much even though

18:02it's about 12 years old now primarily because the chinese engineers personnel are being targeted

18:10constantly even though there is one full division nearly 10 000 pakistani troops are involved in providing

18:19security to the chinese uh plans and activities and personnel right along from aksaichin up to guada so

18:33that is one aspect which will be a natural buffer against any damage because pakistan's own people are not

18:43in support in support very rightly so because the benefits of the court and whatever else happens

18:51do not come to pakistanis and that's what the baluch are crying hoes about for the last 10 years

18:57they are not coming to the baluch where it is this is baluchistan but they are going to other elements

19:04of territories and elements of pakistan which is to their great shock and anger

19:11from our side uh i think we will have we have already done uh a move forward with the chinese

19:20uh it has been a it hasn't been sudden but it was certainly triggered by uh president trump's

19:29threats and the possibility and prospect that we saw before us of uh making it clear not only to

19:39president trump and the united states that we have other options but actually exercise that option

19:47through a more positive forward movement of the on the china india china track and we have seen the

19:54results of that in the recent past the relations are improving that will also serve as a counter to the

20:02pakistan and as it is the chinese are most unhappy with the way pakistanis are approaching the americans

20:12whether it is the crypto deal whether it is a linkage with the family of president trump as has been

20:18reported by media people like yourself uh what actually the factors because chinese have taken pakistan as

20:27uh as a friend to use their language and grammar uh higher than the himalayas and deeper than the

20:36mountains that kind of a relationship but that relationship seems to be coming under pressure

20:43because of pakistan now moving more and more towards the americans and so in the global power configuration

20:50we had no choice but to start to do some degree of improvement of relations with china that would be

20:58the second factor the third factor is what is happening very naturally india being a huge market

21:06india's economic cloud as one of the largest growing economies in the world at roughly 6.5 to 7

21:13percent every year for the last 20 years and more and that is a substantial capability enhancement which serves as a kind of a power

21:29of induction of inducement of of attraction to markets and businesses in the western world especially

21:42to invest in india so it's a circular issue that you appeal to them not because of any like pakistan

21:49going down on its knees but by showing the power of india therefore the benefit is not only mutual but

21:58also benefits the investor so if that happens and if we are able to enhance our growth rate and per capita

22:06which is much more important because we are still at the lower uh income uh country uh of 1170

22:18euros dollars per capita to about 4492 uh per capita we are in that range we will get trapped there we have

22:26to get out of the trade and once you have comprehensive national power which includes economic power

22:35knowledge power knowledge power technology power and of course most of all military power if you have

22:41that package well done the concerns you raised and the points you made about how we can neutralize

22:49the efforts by uh by china and pakistan together through cpec and then pakistan using that route to

22:58target india through cross-border terrorism that cross-border terrorism threshold has now

23:05certainly certainly changed uh we may not call it new normal but certainly deterrence levels have

23:12been made obvious by operations there is this consensus across political parties in india that

23:18kashmir is an integral part of india and there there are no second thoughts about it uh and india

23:25also has a stand that this is a bilateral issue and it is not to be internationalized but my question to

23:32you is when we look up for the map of india there is so much of distortion and not only in media outlets

23:38but also at government level of certain countries at military level of certain countries do you think

23:44that india needs to start this sort of a campaign for countries to understand that this is an integral

23:49part of india maharaja harry singh handed over kashmir and integrated exceeded it to the dominion of india

23:56so do you think that we need to have this some sort of diplomacy going on in that sector also

24:01for countries to understand and recognize pok as an integral part of india no it's uh but there is no

24:08doubt that i mean the whole world knows that pakistan invaded initially through radars and directly

24:16forces forces j and k which are exceeded to india but we need to also flag four or five points here

24:24number one jammu and kashmir exceeded to india subject to article 370 now integration is emotional

24:35integration is not a policy measure the people of jammu and kashmir must feel that they are a part of

24:42india and they must feel that in their hearts and minds unfortunately uh this may be a perspective

24:50different from many people in india unfortunately the decision to unilaterally remove article 370

24:59against the wishes of the people of india you're talking about kashmir being an integral part of india

25:04the kashmiris say we are an integral part of india kashmir's constitution article 1 of jnk's constitution

25:14which has been now abolished on 5th of august 2019 says jammu and kashmir is the state of the indian

25:22union these are the people of india jnk who are saying but unfortunately whatever was promised to the

25:31jnk people especially the jnk people especially the kashmiris there were attempts it's not just

25:36current dispensation from 2014 but even earlier through uh what i would call a quad you puppetize

25:47the regime in jnk how did you do that through massive rigging of election after the arrest of

25:56sheikh abdullah in 1953 9th of august all elections were rigged until 1997 when faruk abdullah came

26:07back to power after that horrible insurgency which took so many lives 40 50 000 lives whether of terrorists

26:15whether of civilians whether of our security for what was that i mean we cannot we can't brush away

26:22what we went through uh from 1990 uh the tragedy of the kashmiri pundits i'm a kashmiri pundit

26:32three lakh people are refugees in their own country why and what have we done about them

26:42that's this is a 35 year old story so it's a very complex issue the third is that

26:49fine now you were moving forward the separatism had gone out people began to see the power of the indian

26:56rupee the size of the indian market of which they were a part not that kashmiris that never felt

27:02themselves as part but then targeting of kashmiri students in colleges and universities everywhere in

27:09india as a result of uh article 370 abrogation uh thereafter uh denial of statehood then there is no

27:23i mean i can understand okay it is an ideological position of this ruling party it has the majority

27:29takes a view and says okay we will abolish article 70. you may have a ruling party four years of now or

27:37five years from now which minutes which means sorry we will revert to 370 being an article of the

27:45constitution that can also happen we are a democracy but what is permanent is democracy federalism

27:56not doing anything to a people of 14 million people are residents of state of jain they must be

28:05consulted before you take a radical step like that and that is what pakistan is exploited that is why

28:12the international understanding of kashmir your words and your question that is why that has happened

28:20there is less understanding because the whole world has seen that this is not something india should have

28:28done consultation process but they're not saying it openly that's another point because that's diplomacy

28:35but if you see the press you see the international press the situation on kishmeet what i have told you

28:41has been addressed in that third point i was talking about those two issues one was

28:46popularization of regimes two was second was denial of democracy because if you rig elections where is

28:55democracy third is insurgency resulting out of this as also a stealthy constitutionalism

29:05because all that had been promised under article 370 to the people of jnk was gradually clawed out

29:13from its mooring articles which were not to apply to jnk of the indian constitution actually applied to jnk

29:21that created this whole impulse of what could be termed for whatever better word separatism but that

29:29separatism is also gone after all don't forget we've just had elections in 2024 and you have a ruling

29:38party the national conference come in with nearly 41 out of 90 seats whereas the ruling dispensation at

29:46the center that has only 28 seats in that state and rightfully the national conference formed the

29:54government but what is the point of that government which is supposedly meeting the aspirations of

30:01people of jnk who have voted them being unable to do anything for them because this dual structure of

30:08a union territory with law and order and major things lying with the left and governor as conveyed

30:15by the ruling dispensation at the center it's creating new resentment and i'm not hesitating to say it in

30:22front of you hina or your viewers there is new resentment in jnk particularly among the youth

30:30they feel humiliated they feel they've been denied their freedoms and rights democracy rights to protest

30:38the media is not free so it will take us a while so what is it i'm not be giving you i'm not ending on

30:45a grim no i want to convey through you yourself to your viewers that the government of india needs to be

30:53more proactive more creative more imaginative and more democratic not just in terms of what the center

31:05does in the rest of india but also what the center's policy are in jamun kashmir the restoration of the

31:12statehood of jnk should be the highest priority because there has been no major no major setback

31:22to security situation in jnk as a result of coming in of a democratic party

31:29purely elected by people being in power so i have i have tried my best to explain to you

31:37how the jnk issue is an extremely complex issue it will need support of the people of jnk it will need

31:45an imaginative policy by the center and the rest of indian people for whom kashmir is theirs kashmir is

31:54not just territory kashmir is also people of kashmir and you know how they are all over you go to any

32:01corner of india there's always a kashmiri presence either a carpet seller a papier machine seller or a

32:07hotel or business it's all in their hands so there's so much a part of us as you rightly said integral

32:16part of india but they must be emotionally and psychologically made to be an integral part of india

32:25thank you so much air vice marshal kapil kaak for joining asianet news and giving your perspective

32:31thank you thank you heena such a pleasure uh interacting with you and what a range of thoughtful

32:39penetrating questions you raised and made me nervous

32:44well uh your experience spoke sir thank you once again and hope to speak to you soon thank you

Air Vice Marshal Kapil Kak (Retd) EXCLUSIVE | How India Can Take PoK Amid Growing Chinese Influence

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