Get an EXCLUSIVE insider perspective with Ambassador MK Bhadrakumar on the critical India-US issues shaping today’s geopolitical landscape. In this interview, the Ambassador discusses the H-1B visa hike controversy, the ongoing fentanyl crisis and related allegations, the strategic implications of the Chabahar port waiver fallout, and President Trump's UNGA speech including his stance on climate change.
#IndiaUSRelations #H1BVisa #FentanylCrisis #ChabaharPort #TrumpUNGA #AmbassadorMKBhadrakumar #Geopolitics #InternationalRelations #World
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#IndiaUSRelations #H1BVisa #FentanylCrisis #ChabaharPort #TrumpUNGA #AmbassadorMKBhadrakumar #Geopolitics #InternationalRelations #World
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NewsTranscript
00:00It's my privilege to welcome Ambassador M.K. Bhadra Kumar to today's discussion. He is an
00:20Indian diplomat with a career spanning three decades in the Indian Foreign Service. His
00:25postings include key strategic regions such as former Soviet Union, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan
00:30and Turkey. Thank you so much Ambassador for joining us today and have a discussion on of
00:36course some of the pressing issues that are shaping the India and US relationship and first
00:40of all I really want to begin with a much talked about issue of H1B visa. Now there is a lot of
00:46commentary out there already a lot of people are saying that this is something Trump has done not
00:50only to deter Indian workers coming to US but also do a piece to entice his domestic constituencies.
00:58Another thing because the hike is too much a hundred thousand dollars another another section of
01:05people are saying that this is something only to invite the people with large salaries. What is your
01:10point of view on that? Well I think you know the optics are primarily in terms of the domestic
01:17situation situation situation in the United States. The Maga movement you know this is a campaign plan
01:24of Trump in the last election and this was in the forefront along with you know illegal migration and
01:33all that. So the optics are primarily in terms of domestic politics and you can see the animated
01:40discussion that is going on within the United States even you know tech tech giant Elon Musk has got into
01:49it and everybody has got into it you know Steve Bannon I saw. So we look at it from a limited perspective
01:59in terms of our IT industry, the employment generation, the remittances which come from the United States
02:06and so on. So I don't think it is an India-centric affair. I think it is ultimately it will
02:14it's a denome will be in terms of you know the domestic politics and within the US itself there
02:21is a split opinion on this matter. That's how I see it. I don't think it is it is as if you know that
02:28the timing is quite quite awkward in the sense that you know it is coming in the wake of the
02:37tariff floor. So you know everything is adding up to the situation but I don't tend to see it
02:47in terms of an India-centric move by Trump. You mentioned tariffs and you know not only tariff and
02:54not only H-1B visa there is a lot of other things also Trump is targeting India. Recently he also
03:01explicitly mentioned India as a transit country to supporting you know fentanyl trafficking and
03:09the fentanyl crisis which is happening in US. But as far as India is concerned what we have seen from
03:14the very start is that it has maintained a very calm and a very composed posture. Now my question to you
03:21ambassador is do you think that this is this approach is working in favor of India or do you
03:26think that we need to be more assertive? You see at the beginning I should have probably mentioned this
03:34that my my sense is that the United States is a global power and its strategies global strategies
03:45are always dynamic and India is a cog in the wheel. Most countries are including even United States's
03:56allies in Europe are cocks in the wheel. Japan, South Korea, their predicament is also no different.
04:03So all these things have to be seen in the context of you know the United States has declined
04:10and Trump has assumed office. Trump has come back to the White House at a time when he has this
04:18bangless job of navigating the United States's adjustment to the new pure political realities
04:26in the world situation. So many of these things have to be seen that way. Now you mentioned about the
04:32narcotic thing. It is as far as I can see it comes within a general report of the state department
04:42like religious freedom or anything else periodically the state department reports to the congress about
04:49the state of play on various fronts. So the drug reaction is that you know it is not as if you know
04:57see we are getting worked up that whenever the United States mentions India in some context we tend to
05:03feel that they are as you to borrow your word you know that they are targeting India. I don't get that
05:10feeling because you know India is bracketed along with China. India is bracketed along with Pakistan. So you know
05:19you know we have to ask ourselves first of all you know nobody is doing that we have to ask ourselves
05:26what has what have we done or what are we doing to earn such a reputation and I don't think the state
05:32department is an irresponsible entity. It must have been collecting facts and the statistics from all over
05:40the world and it has seen certainly the missionary apparatus for doing that a meticulous making a meticulous
05:50job of it and on that basis it is you know come to certain arrived at certain conclusions and arrived
05:57at certain assessments and that is reflected in this reference to India. So we are mixing apples with
06:06oranges you know. Ambassador I have a follow-up question you say that we need to look at ourselves
06:14also and of course there must be some data which is supporting all of this but my larger question to
06:20you is because this is a menace in US which has been going on for a long long time I mean under Biden
06:26administration also there was a big crisis of fentanyl but my question is do you think that US needs to
06:32look at his own domestic policies needs to strengthen the institutions which are there within the
06:38borders of US rather than only targeting the supply side enforcement because if there is no demand in US
06:44definitely a lot of things will fall in place. What can we do about it it's a this is a fact of life
06:52and we are contending with what is arguably a very bad situation which has got a lot of ramifications in
06:59terms of domestic stability law and order situation crime and so on in the American society. So you know
07:09when they mention India I think our prerogative our right is to explain where India really stands
07:19whether this sort of reference was warranted or not. I have not seen any statements to that effect
07:25from the government of India and we all know that drug trafficking is a problem for India also. So
07:33we have to look at it from that point of view what is the point in throwing stones at them that
07:37their agencies are inefficient in curbing illicit trafficking and so on that is there probably it is
07:45there I don't know and that that is not going to help us anyway that is not going to help us to get
07:53India removed from this list. As I mentioned in the beginning it is not only in terms of this it's in
07:59terms of human rights situation in terms of religious freedom in terms of press freedom etc. The United
08:06States has aggravated to itself the prerogative to assess the world situation through its prism of
08:15American exceptionalism. And now in terms of that you know many countries are found wanting in many
08:22respects. What can we do about it? That we cannot tell them that this is none of your business.
08:30Even if we tell them that this is none of your business they'll keep doing this as well as I can see.
08:35Right. Another move that Trump has made is to lift the waiver on Iran's Shahbar port.
08:41And I think it is going to happen on 29th of September. Now this Shahbar port is it's very
08:47important strategically for India because it helps us you know give a route a trade route that bypasses
08:54Pakistan to get into Afghanistan and Central Asian nations. Now my question to you is how bad are going
09:00to be the implications and secondly do you think that it will be a benefit for the Guadal port and will
09:06ultimately benefit China? You see first of all I must repeat what I said that you know that the United
09:12States does not act accidentally and what does it gain out of removing this waiver? I get a feeling
09:20that you know we are losing the big picture here and the big picture has many templates. One is Jabaha
09:28and not many people it has occurred to not many people that the Saudi Pakistani defense pact is also
09:36another template of it. The developments on the front of Iran nuclear program, the IAES future role in
09:45Iran that is also linked to this. I would even tend to think that the harsh language that Trump is lately
09:52using vis-a-vis Russia is also part of it. And don't be surprised if all these things are finally
10:00converging on one issue which is what Netanyahu has been championing for 25 years which is Russia
10:08image in Iran. On the latest speech that Trump gave at UNGA of course he mentioned a lot of topics he was
10:17very straightforward and sometimes I think very unempathetic to a lot of issues. Now two issues
10:26I want to talk to you about is one his commentary on United Nations. What he said of course resonates
10:33with a lot of people like us who follow geopolitics because often we say that UN is an institution which
10:41is like a toothless tiger because it can formulate a few things but cannot force people to actually
10:50implement on them. So first my question to you is do you think that whatever Trump has said
10:55it is absolutely true or does it also somehow show that Trump does not want to include
11:02U.S. in a very you know in a diplomatic way of cooperating with other countries?
11:11It is difficult to apportion blame in this respect. You must first of all realize that the United
11:20Nations establishment, let me put it like that, United Nations organization as a system
11:26has also recognized that you know that there are negative features about its working.
11:38I don't know whether you are aware of it that the United Nations itself has initiated
11:44a program to cut down the size of its bureaucracy. Now what does it show? It shows that you know that
11:53there has been a colossal wastage of resources. Secondly, there is a question of, you know,
12:00different agencies overlapping. This is also something which has come to the notice of the United
12:06Nations and the United Nations itself is admitting it. Now if you proceed on these lines, you will come to a
12:16situation where there is a situation where there is merit in what the United Nations, what the United
12:21States is saying to a certain extent. The question therefore is, what are we going to do about it?
12:29And the United States what it has done is that you know it has been squeezing the funds, the budget of the
12:35United States. It has taken a punitive attitude towards it. Trump has ordered a complete review of the
12:46U.S. contribution. As you know, United States is the single, by far the single biggest, followed closely by
12:54by China. The single biggest contributor to the U.N. budget. Now it is somewhere close to some 30%
13:05something and China is closely below that, you know, with about 21-22%. But then look at certain other
13:15countries like, you know, wealthy countries like Japan. Japan is, if I remember, is somewhere around 6%.
13:23You know, so you see, because you know, all these, there is a complicated formula, which was worked out
13:32in the wake of the situation at that time, following the World War II, in estimating the capacity of
13:42different member countries to contribute. And naturally, a country like Japan was completely
13:49devastated in the war. It was a defeated party and didn't have the capacity at all. So, you know,
13:55China joined much later, the United Nations. So, you know, you, you, you can see that, you know,
14:01the Americans feel peeved that, you know, that they are taking a very hefty portion of that budgetary
14:10responsibility. And they are not getting commensurate returns. And a leader like Trump is very conscious
14:21of the outflow of resources. It is used to, as you know, very well, it is used to very harsh language
14:27towards Europeans, you know, that they are free riders and so on. So, that aspect of it is
14:36understandable. But how do we go about it? That is the whole situation. Today, you know, we are in a jam.
14:43Politically, we are in a jam. Because you go back to that famous saying by V.K. Krishnamenand
14:49that if the United States and the Soviet Union cannot, could not harmonize their positions on any
15:02international conflict situation, then there is little that the United Nations can do about it.
15:08Right.
15:08The Security Council can do about it. But on the other hand, if they agree,
15:13then the United Nations Security Council becomes over to us. This is the typical wit of Krishnamenand.
15:20But that is the stark reality. And that was the stark reality in the Cold War era. And now we have
15:26a new Cold War era where those realities are resurfacing with a fury.
15:33Right.
15:34And so, nothing is going to be possible to be agreed upon within the UN Charter, you know,
15:42and no UN mandate is now forthcoming on any of these conflict situations.
15:46In his UNGA speech, Trump also made a very harsh commentary on climate change. He spoke about
15:54it almost in a very derogatory manner. What do you think? Because Trump is straight away saying that we
16:00need to go back to the traditional sources of energy. He completely seems to be, you know,
16:05sidelining this entire big issue of climate change.
16:08Is there anything new in this? The man had never hidden this. He's been very open about it.
16:16And he's strongly, that is his conviction. And he wants to step up oil production in the United States.
16:24And, you know, he doesn't believe. And he has poofed green energy all along. And he had been
16:30lambasting Biden's efforts in that direction all along. So, I don't see anything new in that,
16:39what he said about climate change. Now, it's a different matter whether, you know,
16:43you can agree with him or not. Personally, I do not agree with it. But he looks at it in terms of,
16:50you know, boosting the oil production, keeping United States as the number one oil exporter in
16:56the world. And his foreign policy is now increasingly linked to that. Look at the kind of pressure he's
17:02building up on Venezuela. Now, which is probably what the world's single biggest resource, even
17:12exceeding Saudi Arabia's. So, we know why this pressure tactic and why this move to get a regime change
17:20made there and bring in a pro-American regime there. It's for exercising control of the world oil
17:25market. And the United States, for United States, it's a nearby country from where, you know, it could
17:32meet its own requirements and American companies could return to Venezuela. So, you see, he's not
17:38hiding it at all, you know, and he's very open about it and very aggressive about it. Now, whether,
17:47you know, even the other side, if you look at it, you know, that what happens to these green energy
17:52people, Germany, for example, is in very serious trouble. It's entered a phase of deindustrialization
18:02when the availability of fossil fuels at cheap rates, predictable rates,
18:07and on a long-term basis from Russia, they were terminated, you know, and now it is caught between
18:15two worlds. So, I think whether Trump is against climate change or not, my feeling is that the fossil
18:25fuels will not leave the scene for a very foreseeable future. You know, it's a fact of life.
18:37Okay.
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