- 15 hours ago
Regina Hall, Mariama Diallo and Zoe Renee -- the Black women behind the Sundance breakout film 'Master' dish on bringing this film to life.
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00:00A lot of these institutions that market themselves, you know, you think about NYU, like Regina said,
00:06as being, you know, different and being, you know, more at the cutting edge. It's in New York City,
00:12it's, you know, it's trying, you know, it's presenting itself as trying to, you know, do
00:17new things. And that, that hypocrisy and the failure of living up to those values is very painful.
00:24Hi, everyone. My name is Aramide Tanu with Essence Magazine. Thank you so much for chatting with me
00:31today about Master. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us.
00:37I'd like to jump right in with Mariama. We talked in 2018 when you had done Hair Wolf and this,
00:43you hinted at Master. You didn't really tell me much at the time, but I wanted to know how long
00:48you've been thinking about this gorgeous project and what was the transition like from comedy,
00:53something like Hair Wolf into like a full-on horror drama. First of all, thank you so much.
00:59You know, it's funny because I recently actually looked back in my files to try to discover when
01:06I started the first draft of Master. And the first file that I can find, and I might look on another
01:13computer and find an earlier file, but was from 2016. So it's definitely been on my mind for a very
01:20long time and I've lived with it for so long. And so it just feels so incredible to be here at the
01:28precipice of being able to share it with everybody, knowing, you know, thinking back to that younger
01:33version of myself that first started writing this, you know, what feels like a lifetime ago.
01:38And interestingly enough, you know, I think that moving between comedy and horror has been very
01:45intuitive for me. And I actually wrote Master before Hair Wolf. So I kind of moved from horror
01:53to comedy in the short and then back to horror again. But it's just, you know, it's a genre that
02:00I love so much and it's so close to me. So it felt like it came very naturally.
02:06Now for Zoe and Regina, what sort of brought you both to this project? I know, Regina,
02:11you stepped in as executive producer as well. So what was it about these characters and this script
02:16that really moved the two of you?
02:18I loved the writing. I think the subject matter, the theme, I thought Mariyama's writing was so nuanced,
02:25so specific, but also for everyone to enjoy. I thought it was smart and had like just drips of
02:36humor, but also such depth. And after meeting her, I was like, she's so smart and such like a talented
02:45filmmaker. And I just, I love the way she entered the world. I loved putting this kind of social
02:53commentary, you know, with academia as the backdrop. And I love that she had three women
03:00kind of at the helm of Ivy League institution, which is usually, you know, often or certainly
03:06originally male and white, you know, dominated to sort of see perspective. But also that everything
03:14felt really incredibly grounded and so, and so real. And that there was something horribly compelling
03:21and scary, but very emotional about it as well. What about you, Zoe?
03:27Yeah, it scared me. I remember reading the script and I was just genuinely terrified. But it was one
03:33of those things that I think, because it was so scary, I wanted to kind of jump in and see what we
03:42could do and what Mariyama wanted to do. And what were we allowed to do? It was a story that
03:48I felt I hadn't seen before, but I, an energy that I had felt before. And I wanted to dive into that a
03:57little bit more. And so I was just hoping that I could, and I was able to. So that's cool.
04:02Wonderful. Now, speaking about the energy and the look of the film, that's what really struck me was
04:07so dark and so terrifying. I mean, it's someone who has gone to an Ivy League university in the
04:12Northeast. Like, it's really a haunting experience. I wanted to know more about the microaggressions and
04:20why, was it a collaboration choosing to put certain microaggressions in the film? So for example,
04:26when Jasmine comes in her dorm and her roommate has all these people in their outside clothes
04:30I was like, distraught for her. I mean, just small things like that. And even sort of, um,
04:38the things that Gail's experiencing in her home, that creepy, like the critters that are coming out
04:44everywhere. How did you all decide what to put in the film? Like, we've all experienced microaggressions,
04:49but it's almost like, wait, did I really experience that or not? Um, so what was that process like?
04:54You know, when I was writing the script, I was really drawing from my experience and from things
05:02that had either directly happened to me or that I had observed or were, you know, a, uh, you know,
05:09a reinterpretation of something that had happened to me. And like, you know, these, these are the sorts
05:15of darts that come at you a mile a minute. And if I could have included all of the microaggressions
05:24that, you know, that Zoe, Regina, and I know about and talked about when we were talking about the
05:29characters, the film would have been full of them. So this was even, you know, a, uh, a distillation
05:36of what was, you know, in many senses, a much more, you know, overwhelming experience. Um,
05:43but it felt like when I was rendering that world, that was, you know, that was so much
05:47of the texture of, um, of my experience and what I was going through. And it was in a way,
05:54it was kind of, you know, it was, it was kind of cathartic to, to bring them out and to bring
06:02them to light in a way that we're even within myself. A lot of the time I keep it suppressed
06:07in order to not, you know, go insane with rage. But, um, yeah, I, um, I had a friend who saw the
06:15film and that part where, you know, the other college students are sitting on Zoe's bed and he
06:21said, that's on site. I would find that on site, you know, it's, it's infuriating in a certain sense.
06:28And I think that part of what's so frustrating about it is that we, it's real, you know, we,
06:34we know it and we've lived in and definitely, you know, so many conversations at the outset that I
06:40had with Regina and when Zoe about our own experiences in spaces like that, and what does
06:46it feel like and how do we respond and how do we wish we responded and, and all of the, you know,
06:52complexities that are contained therein. I even liked the, when you had the, uh, the woman who
06:57worked in the kitchen, you know what I mean? Like even that microaggression, which is also real and
07:03kind of, you know, a little mind boggling and confusing. I just, yeah, there were so many,
07:07there were so many subtle things that I loved about. I think that's what I love that nothing
07:12felt like, you know, message, everything was just subtle where if you told the story, what
07:20happened? Someone came in and they were sitting on my bed. It doesn't, it can't translate to what
07:26it feels like, right? So it's the, it's seeing what that experience feels like. That's what I
07:31thought, um, Mariama did so well throughout the movie. Now for you, Regina, um, what I loved was
07:36seeing you with the TWA. I loved that. Um, what was it, why was it important for you to take control
07:42of your image in that way for this film? And also what did you learn about yourself as an executive
07:48producer on this project? I think what was so great about that, the film and, and, you know,
07:55Gail, it was collaborative, you know, Mariama and I talked about it, you know what I mean? It was,
08:01it, you know, because she lived with the story for years before I did. And so, you know, and I think
08:07that was what was wonderful was hearing her input and then digesting that against what I had
08:12originally thought and being like, Oh, wait a minute that, you know, coupled together that
08:18then informs everything. But what was, what was interesting was that those, those things, they
08:25seem, they, they, they really inform how Gail moves throughout life, throughout the campus,
08:33throughout her world. And so, um, once, you know, I think Mariama saw a picture and it was like,
08:40well, is this what you're thinking? Are you thinking this? And she's like, that's it.
08:43I love the feeling of othering in the film. Like it was, that's what really made it haunting for me.
08:48Now for you, um, Zoe playing Jasmine, I've seen you in Jen, I've seen you in the quad,
08:53such vibrant shows and films. This is really dark and isolating.
08:58Even filming it was, it was, it was really interesting. I didn't read much of Gail's storyline
09:04or live storyline. I think I wanted Jasmine in every sense to feel isolated. I didn't want her
09:12to feel like maybe she had someone to lean on because I don't know if that ever was really an
09:17option for her. You know, I didn't want Zoe to attach to, you know, any of the other characters
09:23in a way that, uh, would really kind of, um, as, as weird as it sounds, lift, lift her out of
09:31that isolation. I'm proud of it because I can see it translated on, on, on screen. It's,
09:38it's one of those moments that's so heartbreaking to see. I kind of, I think we, we tried to capitalize
09:43on that a little bit. You could definitely come through in the film a lot for me. And I was like,
09:47why doesn't she just say something? Like she's not talking to her mother. She's not talking to
09:51anyone. So that was like really upsetting to watch. Almost to prove, you know, almost to prove that I
09:56can do it. I can, I can figure out how to, to master this. Regina, can you talk to me about where
10:01you all filmed and what that was like to be on a college campus? Well, I will say we filmed in
10:07winter. I will tell you that. Oh, but I, but I think that it was so smart because it lent itself to
10:15that feeling, you know, that was so uncomfortable throughout the film. I know we filmed, um,
10:20Vassar was one of the places, right? Um, and then what was the place, the other college?
10:26Uh, Pace Briarcliff. Ah, yeah. Yeah. You're talking for Belleville? Like the, yeah. An abandoned
10:34college, um, in upstate New York. Which is great because it had that, that, that kind of feeling. And,
10:43um, um, you know, I think, you know, what I love that Mariama did was when she set it up,
10:49um, we had this idea and that first, you know, talk that Gail has with students that
10:54Ancaster, you know, is, is a Harvard, it's a Yale, you know what I mean? So it doesn't point fingers
11:00at an institution, but the institution, the, the, the Ivy league, you know, and I won't even say that
11:08the elite academic institutions, you know, the idea of it's important to go there, you know, and,
11:15and, and what difference that will make. And I think Gail has bought into that so much, you know,
11:21she went there, like she made it there. It's one of the best schools, you know,
11:26Jasmine is brilliant. She can make it there too. You know, it's, it's, it's, and sometimes,
11:31you know, I think for so long, historically, you know, you will endure. As I think about where the
11:38horror genre is going, especially for people of color and black people specifically, um, is there
11:44a chance for us to belong in these institutions? Like, should we be focusing on HBCUs who've always
11:50welcomed us? Um, how do we fit here? Um, or do you think that we'll always feel othered or is it
11:56something that we should even be striving to do? Anybody can take that. What school did you, did
12:00you go to? I went to NYU and Columbia. I went to NYU too, for arts and sciences. I went for cinema
12:08studies. And it, did you have racism there? Yes, I hated it. I want to tell you, I did too. What was
12:15so interesting about NYU is that, that caught me differently, specifically, is because it was in
12:23New York and New York is such a diverse city that I certainly didn't expect it at NYU. So if I went
12:31to another school and I don't know, I won't name which one, it's not important. I may have anticipated
12:36it perhaps if I were in the South or something, but I was really surprised at NYU and it was really
12:42subtle. And, um, but I still think it's important. You know what I mean? That both exist. I think it's
12:50important that, that, that we, if that is what our heart does, but it's also important for someone
12:55like Jasmine to know that HBCs are, I don't, you know what I mean? I don't think we have to endure,
13:01but if we have that and we want to like a Mariamu finish from Yale, like then absolutely. But you know,
13:08I, I, I think I was, for me, I was really shocked and I was like, I'm leaving, but I was shocked
13:16because of my expectation. I don't know what I had put on NYU, but I was like, oh, it's gonna, it's in the
13:21city, in the village. And I was like, in, in those walls, it was not, it was not what I had thought of.
13:30It was not what I thought. Same from coming from Chicago was a huge shock. And I like cried to my dad
13:35every day. He was like, I already paid for it. You will, you'll be fine.
13:45You know, I think that that's the situation that Jasmine feels herself caught in where
13:49she really, you know, it's, it's a, this, you know, academic attainment that she's been striving
13:56for. And it's, you know, um, this point of pride. And I'm sure like, you know, for so many people,
14:03sacrifices were made for her to go there. And so the feeling that she also has is that
14:09she, she doesn't even allow herself to acknowledge definitely to other people, but also to herself
14:16that she's not enjoying it and it's not the right place for her. And that's, you know, that's so much
14:22of the experience of myself, so many of my friends. I also know, uh, a few other people who went to the
14:29NYU film program and had, you know, some things to say coming out and it, but that's just to say,
14:36you know, I don't necessarily think that NYU is unusual from other schools, but it's, it can happen
14:41all over the place. And a lot of these institutions that market themselves, you know, you think about
14:46NYU, like Regina said, as being, you know, different and being, you know, more at the cutting edge.
14:53It's in New York city. It's, you know, it's trying, you know, it's presenting itself as trying to,
14:58you know, do new things. And that, um, that hypocrisy and the failure of living up to those
15:05values is very painful when you get there and you've removed yourself from your, from your home
15:11and your environment. And you get there and you realize that it's, you know, it's not true.
15:15I think the feeling of betrayal is, is really painful and really, you know, really strong.
15:21Definitely. Well, I want to thank all three of you so much for taking the time to chat with
15:25me this morning. I really appreciate it.
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