00:00President, thank you so much for joining us on Euronews for this interview.
00:12Of course, this is happening at an important time for Europe.
00:16And I want to get your brains on a speech that was made this week by Mario Draghi.
00:21And he suggested this is now the time for the European Union to make decisions
00:25to work like a real federation and a true union.
00:30Would you agree?
00:31I agree with a true union.
00:32I mean, but I'm not sure about federation.
00:35I mean, if you think it's the right way to go,
00:39but I guess it's difficult at this very moment to build up a federation.
00:44So there are new countries, you join the European unions,
00:49and they probably want to keep the independence and so forth.
00:52But in general, we should probably at some point move to this federation
00:56because it makes us more united, makes us more faster,
01:00especially these days when we have to make decisions.
01:03It's very, I mean, it's very slow in the European Union.
01:08And of course, you mentioned Draghi.
01:09I mean, Draghi's report is also a very important document.
01:14But unfortunately, it has not been followed.
01:17And I guess Mr. Draghi is also very disappointed.
01:20He seems frustrated.
01:22Yeah, I mean...
01:23And what is the source of the paralysis?
01:24Is this, as you say, the European Union is 27 countries,
01:28the functioning of the machine is very complex.
01:31Does that make you think, to be a true union,
01:33we need to change the way we operate from within?
01:37Yes, but we can start with very little things like bureaucracy.
01:42I mean, it's very, very, a lot of bureaucracy in the European Union.
01:46And this slows everything down, also in states.
01:49So we have to adopt all these bureaucratic declarations and so forth.
01:54So it takes time.
01:56So we should start from bureaucracy and probably digitalization and AI might help.
02:02But then again, there are always people behind.
02:05So we should start with people probably.
02:07And, President, the European Union has said by 2030 we need to be ready to face,
02:12they don't use this word, but ultimately this is what it comes down to,
02:15a potential war, a conflict, a military clash with Russia.
02:19Is that, you think, at this point really happening, this idea of a union of defense?
02:25Is that materializing quickly enough?
02:27Are you concerned?
02:27What do we actually do to make sure it's going to happen?
02:30So that's why the deterrence and, I mean, defense industry,
02:34building up a defense industry again, it's important.
02:37I mean, Estonia is a small country and we put 5% on defense already.
02:41And we should encourage also other countries to do the same.
02:44Because you have to be ready, not ready for a war,
02:48but the enemy or the enemy understands.
02:52It's, you know, there's no point to attack the European Union or any European country.
02:55Do you still believe NATO is the ultimate backstop for security for the continent?
03:01Yes, I do.
03:01I mean, I don't think we should build another NATO in Europe.
03:06I mean, another defense system.
03:08The reason why I ask you this question is because after the very aggressive language
03:12that President Trump put forward on Greenland,
03:14and obviously that is now a member state and a member of NATO, Denmark,
03:18also in a way a perfect ally, some would say, within NATO,
03:21that has sparked a conversation that maybe NATO will not come to rescue Europeans.
03:27Is that something that now you worry about at night?
03:29We're not worried, but we don't want to test it.
03:32We don't want to test Article 5.
03:33So that's why I'm saying we have to be ready,
03:36but not to be ready to start the war with our enemies.
03:39So it's a defense system you are building up.
03:43Because we have been rather, I would say, naive after the fall of the Berlin War in Europe.
03:49So all the wars are over and everything is fine and we are developing fast and so forth.
03:55But if you look back in history, it's a thousand years of history.
04:00It's a history of wars.
04:01So that means we have to be prepared and make sure it doesn't happen again,
04:06at least to postpone it.
04:07And at this point, we do have to talk about a war that is ongoing,
04:11and that is Ukraine also at this point.
04:14Very difficult context because of the freezing temperatures that are happening in the country.
04:18And ultimately, these are Europeans freezing under minus 20 degrees.
04:23This diplomacy from the U.S., but also the efforts from the Europeans,
04:26they are not moving forward.
04:28This war is not ending anytime soon.
04:29Trump said already last April that we are very close.
04:33But now it's almost a year, but we are still discussing.
04:37And the problem is, it's not the question of President Zelensky and President Trump discussing.
04:42We need Putin behind the table.
04:44But he's not willing to do so.
04:46And you mentioned what's happening now in Kyiv.
04:49I mean, it's minus temperatures.
04:51And it's not minus five, it's minus 20.
04:52It's inhumane.
04:53Yes, and now another attack last night to cities and to power plants.
05:00So it's not humane.
05:02I mean, this is not, it's not a reality, to be honest.
05:07But it happens right now.
05:09There is a growing number of countries that suggest perhaps the reason why the dialogue,
05:13not just between Zelensky and President Trump,
05:16but really engaging in a sort of diplomatic channel with the Russians,
05:19is not moving, it's not working, is because there's no direct communication.
05:23And this is the time now to name an EU envoy for Russia.
05:28Is that a good idea in your mind?
05:30Yes, of course.
05:30I mean, the European Union should be involved in these discussions as well.
05:35Although we are not fighting with Russia directly,
05:40but we have been supporting Ukraine for so many years already and continue to do so.
05:45So we should have a say as well.
05:47But you see, I mean, again, we are a bit late.
05:51We should have started it, not President Trump, but maybe the European Union,
05:55to start also finding diplomatic solutions to this.
05:58To talk to Russia.
05:59Yes, to talk to Russia.
06:00To speak directly to Russia.
06:01But a couple of years ago, we were in a position that we don't talk with aggressors.
06:05And now we are worried that we are not behind the table.
06:09So you would argue at this point, it doesn't mean there's less support for Ukraine,
06:14but it reflects a reality.
06:15We should use all the means to end this war.
06:20And to end this war like a just war like Ukraine wants.
06:24It's not a question of what we want, but Ukraine wants peace.
06:27That's for sure.
06:28I mean, people are dying.
06:29So they will not oppose this.
06:30The Ukrainians have that signal.
06:31They would not like if a European enemy was...
06:34Not far as I know, yes.
06:35And, sir, do you have a name in mind that you go and think it's a respected, tough, credible person?
06:42They should engage with Russia.
06:43We seem to hear from the Russians that they have nothing to discuss with the top diplomat,
06:48and that would be Kayakalas.
06:49So is there anyone that you think this is the right person?
06:53We have a number of names, but for sure we need a person who has credibility on both sides.
06:59And it's an old question already.
07:01I mean, if you talk...
07:02Think about Kissinger who said also, I talk to Europe, who I talk to.
07:06So we need it.
07:07Of course, we do have European Union, but there are other European countries.
07:12And we need probably a president or prime minister or chancellor from bigger European countries
07:19to take this job or form of these people from these positions.
07:26And the other flip side beyond the war is the outlook that Ukraine says they want and they need.
07:32The end of the war obviously will bring a form of stability,
07:36but it's not a full piece.
07:37They talk about a prosperity plan, which I know has already been shared with the different capitals.
07:41They talk about an outlook to 2040, and then they talk about accession.
07:44A number of figures have been reported, 2027, maybe before 2030.
07:50Is there a future for Ukraine and the EU within that timeline?
07:54It seems to me 2027, is that realistic?
07:59To be honest, it's not.
08:01Because for us, it took also more than 10 years, and we were not in a war.
08:06So it takes time.
08:08And you have to fulfill all the requirements and so forth.
08:12But Estonia is very open to this enlarging European Union,
08:19and we are proponents of that development.
08:23It's not only Ukraine, but other Balkan countries as well.
08:26So, but of course, we should, and it's not, one thing is European Union, but then this peace plan is there.
08:35We need also some security guarantees for Ukraine.
08:39What's going to break this cycle?
08:40Is it the Europeans saying we will put boots on the ground?
08:44Is this extending perhaps a nuclear deterrence over Ukraine?
08:47Is this the United States saying we will come and engage militarily?
08:51What breaks this cycle so it's credible?
08:53Of course, there are countries who are ready to put boots on the ground.
08:57Some are not.
08:58Some are, I mean, different ways like we do now.
09:01We help militarily Ukraine and train them and so forth.
09:04But we need somebody present.
09:07Unfortunately, it's also, as a part of a peace deal, somehow Russia has to accept it as well.
09:14And they say that's World War III.
09:15The Russians argue that you are too paranoid and you are hysterical.
09:18That they have never said that they will do anything to the Baltics or Poland.
09:22Do you take that as a sign?
09:23If they say they don't, it means they will.
09:25What we see, I mean, it's very difficult to believe Russia.
09:28Again, look back to how many deals, how many promises.
09:32So it's very difficult to believe.
09:34I mean, also Russia said we never attack NATO.
09:38It might not happen, but it might also happen.
09:41That's why we have to be ready.
09:43And, sir, just to close up this segment, for Ukraine specifically when it comes to accession,
09:47I cover Brussels for many years now and everyone that I speak to about this tells me
09:52it's difficult to put a date, 2027, it's not realistic,
09:55but it's also clear that the accession for Ukraine will not be a normal accession.
10:00Is that something you would say, that is a real politic?
10:04It will not be a normal accession process.
10:07We will have to cross lines that we have not until now.
10:10Well, we always cross lines when a new member is entering the European Union.
10:16But, of course, Ukraine is different.
10:18So I don't know whether it's wise to make exceptions.
10:22Because there are other countries who have been waiting in a hallway for quite a while.
10:25You'll say it's unfair and it was political.
10:27And also Moldova and the Balkan states.
10:31So there are certain requirements.
10:34And one has to follow.
10:37And actually, Ukraine is doing quite a good job.
10:39I'm fighting with corruption, although we see still what's happening.
10:43Do you worry about the story around corruption?
10:44I mean, corruption is...
10:46Well, we did fight with this corruption in the 90s.
10:49And we managed to get rid of this corruption.
10:52We digitized everything.
10:53That means it's very transparent.
10:55It's very difficult to be corrupting in our country.
10:58Just as a final question, President Carys.
11:01We are obviously in Dubai.
11:03I think it's very well written in this panel.
11:05You're participating for the first time in this conference.
11:07Why reach out to the Gulf?
11:09Do you think you would have been here today interested in engaging in this dialogue
11:14if President Trump had not been elected and put on the tariffs?
11:18Because the impression that we get is the European Union is now really reaching out
11:21in a way out of necessity?
11:24No, I don't think so, at least as far as Estonia is concerned.
11:27We are trying to diversify our businesses.
11:31And we are already present in 150 countries, which is for a small country, it's a real thing.
11:38So it doesn't matter who is president in the United States or who is president in somewhere else.
11:43So we are trying to do our job and try to develop faster than maybe some other countries.
11:51Well, President Carys, thank you so much for joining us in the Europe Conversation in Europe.
11:54It's great to see you.
11:55Thank you very much.
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