- 6 weeks ago
A conversation with Jeff Johnson, Chaka Zulu and Jeezy about the evolution of black men.
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00:00What's up y'all? It's Jeff Johnson. Good to be with you for continuation of Dear
00:09Black Men. This discussion is great for me because seldom do we get to be in a
00:17place where we talk about the evolution of black men. What it means for us, the
00:21challenges, the joys, the discomfort, and what it requires of us. And so it's a
00:27pleasure to be with two friends. You know them but you may not know them like this
00:32and so it's an honor to introduce my friend Shaka Zulu. He's been in the game
00:37literally forever and I mean that in the best way. And so from management to
00:44strategy to being with Spotify to working with artists to he's that guy. But more
00:54than that he is someone that believes in our community, believes in manhood and
00:59lives it. A man Jeezy, you know him, you've listened to his music, you rocked out with
01:06him, you watched his television show, you've listened to him mobilize our
01:10communities as of late. And he also is in a place where as a father, as a committed
01:18member of our community, as a member of a family, manhood is bigger than what we do
01:23as a job. It's ultimately who we are and if we only talk about it through the lens
01:29of what we do then we're missing something. Evolution is interesting to me
01:32because it's a word that I hear used all the time but I seldom hear us publicly
01:38talking about what that process is for us. And so what does evolution mean to you?
01:44I don't know. I get very particular with words because, you know, they're tricky and
01:51it's all about context. But evolution, I mean, in the basic sense is to, you know, change
01:57from one space, thought process, mindset to another one. The thing about evolution doesn't
02:04always mean that it's good, right? You can change and it can change for the worst, right?
02:11You've evolved into something else. So, you know, my new thought process is that there's
02:18no absolutes. If we look at the yin and yang, we look at the universe, like, even the laws
02:23of, the first rule of science is that energy is neither created nor destroyed, it just changes
02:28polars. And so potential energy versus kinetic energy, right? So evolution is that as well.
02:34There's a potential of evolution and what I can be and what I actually do or the idea
02:40versus the execution. So I don't, I haven't put the weight of evolution on me or some of
02:49the young people that I mentor or what have you. I just say be and then will, based upon
02:54your goal, determine if you're making good or bad decisions. If my whole purpose is to go
03:00that way and every decision I make takes me that way, then I'm making bad decisions and
03:07I'm not evolving correctly, I'm not moving in the right direction. But sometimes we make
03:11bad moves that actually turn out good and sometimes we do good things that actually hurt us.
03:16It's just this weird understanding. So evolution to me is just switching from different spaces
03:22and stages, but determining whether it's good or bad, right? It's subjective and it's also,
03:29kind of like we were saying off camera, based upon other people's traumas and understanding.
03:34People, your evolution to certain people might be like, you know what I'm saying? But coming
03:39from the roles that grew through concrete mentality, you know what I mean? Your evolution is to be
03:45marveled at. And that being peace is being flexible enough where what happens doesn't have to be good
03:56or bad. Right. I mean, there's an idea that everything that happens to us is supposed to.
04:03There is that idea. And it's supposed to in order to get us to that thing you pointed to, right?
04:10Do you believe that? Do you believe that? Listen, whatever happened, it was supposed to happen
04:17because I needed that to happen in order to get to that next step.
04:21I believe is, I believe is myself. I like to manifest things. I consider myself a visionary
04:29when it comes to who I want to become. I think that what happened to me, my humble beginnings,
04:38the things that I went through, they shaped me. So now that when I'm in this corporate world,
04:44I'm in these different places, I have an instinct that they don't have.
04:48I have an edge on them because I go by my guts and my morals and my integrity.
04:54And I think you lose that along the way if you evolve from, it's almost like being a general,
05:00but you went to college and you never went on the battlefield. And you go to war and you want the respect
05:04from the soldiers that are there that are on the ground. So I went from A to Z, if you will.
05:10And a lot of things happened. And like Shaq said, you know, things happen for the worse.
05:16But I made it better. I took those things that would have broke the average person down
05:22and made myself a better person. But the thing for me is, when I look at evolution,
05:28I look at it as being that caterpillar that has to become a butterfly.
05:35You know you have to do this or you're going to stay a caterpillar.
05:38And it's just like for me, you know, I haven't hit that butterfly state yet.
05:44So while I'm in this cocoon, I'm just going through my emotions and going through life and doing what I do.
05:49But when I get to a place where I feel like I've evolved to where I'm that butterfly space,
05:56then I'll know it because everything around me would be comfortable and I'll see my work.
06:00But until then, I'm still grinding. So I have to work towards evolving,
06:05because if I stay where I'm at, then that's where I'm going to be.
06:09I think it's less about what you have to go through something. It's just cause and effect.
06:13Like going through it is going through it. One of my mantras is that the lesson is in the work.
06:19So the process is really what it is. The awareness that he has to understand that I'm in the process.
06:25My son, we have a discussion, my son had to do two years when he was in college.
06:31You know what I'm saying? He was a freshman in college, got in a situation,
06:34ended up having to do two years for self-defense, defending himself.
06:38And I would go visit him and I just, every time before I left, I would say,
06:44this doesn't define who you are, but do what you got to do to survive.
06:48Cause I'm not in there with him.
06:50And it's crazy cause I've been through the same thing with mine.
06:54And it's real cause once they in this world, you know what I'm saying?
06:58It's a different world and they have to survive a different way.
07:01And even when I have conversations, it's just like, you know, just stay focused.
07:05Just, just, you know, just move, you know what I'm trying to give him the game that I learned.
07:09And he like, yo, you don't get it.
07:11And I'm like, but I do.
07:12Cause, cause, cause I've been where you've been.
07:14I understand where you're going.
07:15You know what I'm saying?
07:16You ain't even gotten to where I'm at yet, but, but they're looking for the elevator.
07:19They don't want to take the stairs. You know what I mean?
07:21So, but that's a part of evolving.
07:23I'm telling them, Hey, you can be, you should have better chances than I did.
07:27So that you can become better than I am.
07:30Cause that's, that's the goal.
07:31You can't go through life.
07:35If you, you can't go through life, just drinking your Kool-Aid and counting your wins.
07:40Because you, you, my wins never made me.
07:44My losses did though.
07:46Every time I lost, I'm just like, yo, you gotta, you gotta figure this out, bro.
07:51You're on your own.
07:52Cause ain't nobody coming to save you.
07:54But what I did learn is, is, is like, if somebody was to sit me down and be like, yo, how did you make it through this?
08:01And I have to explain, I see the lesson in what I'm explaining.
08:06Even, even if I have to revisit it myself, because in the moment I just went through the motion and I just had to survive.
08:13You know what I mean?
08:14So, but it was a loss and I, and I had so many, but two things happened.
08:19The first thing is it made me stronger for real, because I know that I can't let myself down, no matter how hard it is.
08:27I know I put myself in the situation.
08:29And the second thing is like, what did I learn?
08:31Because I can't repeat this because the next time it might take me out.
08:36You know what I'm saying?
08:37And the sad thing is, if you really look at our culture and where we come from, success is such a small part of it.
08:45Because you still got to stay alive.
08:47You got to stay out of kind of tension.
08:49You got to try to keep yourself afloat.
08:51You got to take care of your family.
08:53You got to try to educate yourself as much as possible.
08:55Because if you don't have the tools and you're going in these surroundings, in these places, even if you're making money, they're going to take it from you.
09:01Like, you're not going to keep it because you don't know how.
09:03So it's just all these different things.
09:05And it's just like, even if I feel over here, I just try to make it up there.
09:09But then I go, okay, well, I need to surround myself by somebody who knows more about this.
09:14Because now I shouldn't be fighting these litigation cases.
09:16Because I shouldn't even, my name shouldn't even be on these things.
09:19I shouldn't even be in the situation.
09:20Or I shouldn't be dealing with people directly because now, you know, my relationship is different.
09:26It should be a liaison.
09:27So now that I can keep this relationship fresh, you know, whatever it may be.
09:31Because then what I learned is when you start doing business with people you know, when you fall out, the business fall out.
09:37You know what I'm saying?
09:38It's a wrap.
09:39And you might get sued.
09:40You might get this.
09:41You might get that.
09:42But then I just started learning these things.
09:44And I'm like, damn, so there's no right way to do this thing we call life.
09:49Especially when you're a black man and you're trying to figure things out just from your head.
09:53Like you just said, Chaka was the head of the black CIA.
09:56I don't know if I should say that.
09:57But I watched Chaka move around the city.
10:01And there's nothing that don't go on that he don't know about.
10:04But imagine if I didn't have a relationship with him.
10:07Because we've done business before.
10:09And it didn't go right.
10:10But I had to double back.
10:11And we had to sit down and talk like, man.
10:13But it's just like, what are these deals coming by?
10:14And I'm like, I ain't really rocking with him.
10:16Because my pride is in it.
10:17And I'm me.
10:18And I'm who?
10:19Like these business deals we talking about behind the camera shit.
10:21I ain't gonna know nothing about that.
10:22And who at the table?
10:24Well, and you said a lot.
10:26I want to unpack a couple of those things.
10:28Because there's a lot there.
10:30Our definitions and aspirations of manhood are all different.
10:34Based on where we start, who we had, who we didn't have, who they were, what they had, what they didn't have.
10:40And so from a manhood perspective, who defined that for you?
10:46Who defined a manhood for you?
10:48I mean, it's hard to say.
10:50I'm gonna have to say my mom.
10:53But not in a way, you know how we hear black women, I can't, you know, black women can't raise no man.
10:59She defined it by how she treated the men around her, which her biggest influence was her father.
11:07My grandfather was a Tuskegee Airman, straight military minded.
11:13Also was in the streets.
11:14Used to be a pimp, hustler.
11:16He ran the streets with Malcolm X.
11:18You know what I mean?
11:19But, you know, coming back, you know, from being a soldier and then getting into, you know, Pan-Africanism and things like that,
11:26he was also one of the original people to train the FOI when Elijah Muhammadin were building.
11:32So we had this, you know, both sides of the scale mindset.
11:37And that came to me.
11:38My mother was a boxer, like literally could beat men.
11:41Like she, 16 ounce gloves could box.
11:44So she was tougher than most men.
11:47And that runs through my family.
11:49But my father was in jail when I was born.
11:53His name's not on my birth certificate.
11:54He was in jail for the first five years of my life.
11:56Right?
11:57So literally, that's the first time I seen him.
12:00Behind him, going through, sitting in the room at a table like this.
12:04And they little, you know, stripes and whatever it is.
12:07And she divorced him when I was five.
12:10And I think he came home like a year or so later.
12:13Almost two years later.
12:15But my mother never said a bad word about my father.
12:18Not once.
12:19Whether he did something good or he did something bad.
12:22I literally, I've tried.
12:24Like, she's never said nothing bad about him.
12:26So I was always open to love him no matter what.
12:29Then one day when I was like a teenager, I was like,
12:31Mother, he only sent me like $50 in six months.
12:34You know, I'd be like, yeah, your father sent you $50.
12:36Like, you start adding up life like.
12:39And then one day my father sat down and was like,
12:43Ask me anything you want to ask.
12:45Anything.
12:46Me and my siblings.
12:47And we started asking about the relationship and all of that.
12:50And he answered honestly.
12:52So that shaped me.
12:53Older brothers.
12:54You know my older brothers, Jeff and Jay.
12:57I've always had strong men around me.
13:00I mean uncles, community leaders, things like that.
13:04So I've had examples of men, but you always look for the closest thing at home.
13:09Then my mother remarried.
13:10So I just had a, I had a real, real strong understanding of manhood in a broad space.
13:18Right.
13:19And then being raised in a community oriented family.
13:24I've been able to understand, know and see that in other men.
13:28There, because I saw so many types of men.
13:30I don't expect us to be the same type of man.
13:33Right.
13:34No matter what.
13:35But again, our experiences and haven't understood it.
13:37Even though I've never done no, like I've done none of what Jesus has done.
13:42I understand it totally because my brothers have, you know what I'm saying?
13:46It's just different experiences, but you could still be men in that space and accept each other.
13:52If we were to define manhood, when I talk to young people, I say manhood means how you control your surroundings.
13:58Literally, because that's how we define it.
14:01Like, oh, you're the man of the house.
14:02Well, why?
14:03Because you pay bills?
14:04Because you do, it's all about a woman says, oh, you my man.
14:07Why?
14:08Because of how I take care of things.
14:09So the basic premise of manhood is how we take care of things.
14:13Then we get to determine the level or sometimes our women will determine it and be like, well, if you ain't this type of man, you ain't this type of man.
14:20All right, cool.
14:21So then we go seek those things out or we go try to live that life or whatever it may be.
14:25But that's the basic premise of manhood.
14:27And so, you know, me being able to experience that and, again, have a different community-minded space allows me to navigate some of the things y'all see me do.
14:40Right?
14:41Being, like you said, in reference to our situation, it was contentious at the time, but it wasn't something that we couldn't come back from.
14:49Right?
14:50You know what I'm saying?
14:51But he was just being who he was based upon what he knew and understood and how the information came to him.
14:56And then my reaction, what I've always learned, is my reaction is going to predicate where this is going to go.
15:03Because we're silverbacks.
15:05A silverback do this.
15:07And then we, right?
15:09And I tell women, same thing, don't take that masculine energy because you don't understand natural male energy is escalation.
15:16Natural male energy is escalation.
15:17Very rarely do we de-escalate.
15:19If we do, we call them what?
15:20Punks.
15:21You're soft.
15:22You're soft.
15:23You're like, but natural male energy, even when we don't want to, it's escalation.
15:28So, it's just understand that.
15:30So, there's the physical or the understandings and then there's the psychological side of manhood that I think, right?
15:38Physical manhood is, you know, bravado, take out the garbage, build stuff, da-da-da-da-da-da, whatever.
15:43The psychological side of manhood is very, very broad.
15:47And if we don't understand that when we're dealing with each other, and I've heard it from street cats to theologians, you know,
15:54all my hardcore lessons come from the streets, from uncles, cousins, brothers.
15:59They're like, a man is going to always meet a bigger man one day.
16:02So, it don't matter how hard I think I am or a bully or whatever it is, one day, and you never know when that day is going to be.
16:09That's the thing.
16:10You're like, yeah.
16:11You don't know until the day is over.
16:12Right.
16:13And you're on the ground.
16:14Right.
16:15So, you could go in your rhythm, and you could be that guy, and then that day you walk out of your house, you don't know if this is the guy that's the bigger man than you,
16:22or whatever it is, on any drop, and that's on that side.
16:25And so, there are, to the point, transferable skills, especially if you learn through adversity.
16:31And this is going to piggyback into another conversation that I just want to throw it out.
16:36But when you learn through adversity, it gives you a broader sense, right, as well as you realize going through this struggle, this ain't really nothing.
16:47You know what I'm saying?
16:48Like, when you've been homeless, you know, had to move around, whatever it is you had to do, or you had to really, really, really take penitentiary chances.
16:54Right.
16:55You know, going into a boardroom and being on time for a meeting is nothing, right?
17:00Especially having something good.
17:01Right.
17:02Right.
17:03Ready.
17:04Right.
17:05But to the point where he was bringing up early, our poverty created our character.
17:09So, now, our real challenge as men and involvement as men is, we don't want our children to go through what we went through.
17:16So, we're raising them on a different trajectory.
17:19As much as I applaud my son surviving and having the fortitude, I would never want him to spend two minutes in jail, let alone two years.
17:29But he had to.
17:31So, how do we create the character in our children and our future generations without them going through what we go through?
17:37It's like, we celebrate the fact that we came through trauma or we came through the concrete.
17:43Right.
17:44And we actually sometimes oversell it.
17:46Right.
17:47And then, we had a deep conversation when I was managing Jeezy and we were working on an album, we sat down.
17:52And I was like, yo, you know, we was working on a recession album.
17:57I was like, what do you want to be?
17:58He was like, I think you remember, you said, Tupac.
18:01Right.
18:02And I was like, do you know what books Tupac read?
18:05Right.
18:06I said, do you know what made Tupac Tupac?
18:09You know what I'm saying?
18:10And we had a deeper conversation in the room because he had a series.
18:13And I was like, well, at a certain point, evolution, I said, we know your story and your truth is your truth.
18:19But you get to the third, fourth, fifth album, if you're not in the streets no more, you can't really keep selling that.
18:25Because you're not.
18:26You can.
18:27Well, you can.
18:28But then that's becoming more like a poison to me.
18:30Right.
18:31It's still your story.
18:32Jay-Z should never, ever have to mention he sold drugs that day in his life.
18:37I know why he does it.
18:39Because he's trying to relate.
18:41Right.
18:42But that's also a prison.
18:44Right.
18:45It's a prison that, you know, I have a concept called escape from hip hop.
18:48Right.
18:49The thing that hip hop was supposed to take us away from, it anchors us to.
18:54It anchors us to.
18:55So that's why I said evolution is just moving from stages, but sometimes we move backwards.
18:59I want to talk about that.
19:00Because Jeezy and Lottoway, you're right there.
19:02Right now.
19:03I mean, when you think about the places that your work, your opportunity has enabled you to go.
19:12I mean, if we're keeping it real, are there moments where even right now where you're doing your greatest work, you sometimes feel disconnected from the people who were the foundation of how you got into this in the first place?
19:34Well, for me, I don't think I can ever be quote unquote disconnected because I still live, breathe, move with those values and morals.
19:49Understood is a better word.
19:51Yeah.
19:52Do you always feel understood?
19:53I do not.
19:54But I knew that going into it.
19:55And what I had to do is come to grips that my journey wasn't everybody's journey.
20:00You know, I didn't grow up and say, I want to do music.
20:03I'm going to be the hardest rapper ever.
20:05You know what I mean?
20:06And when he mentioned Tupac, he was the only person that I saw that had values and morals and stood for something.
20:13And that's why I looked at him like, you know, he was the GOAT to me.
20:16You know what I mean?
20:17And still is because he had rules.
20:19He had things he lived by.
20:20And I understood those rules because I was living that life.
20:23But I also understood that, and he might didn't understand what I was saying,
20:28that I understood that Tupac was in the art, dancing, fashion.
20:33He was a spiritual leader.
20:36He was a revolutionary.
20:38He was all these things that people did.
20:40They just loved the music and how our rate he was.
20:43But my thing was like, look at all this other stuff that he's doing that we don't, you know what I mean?
20:48He was acting.
20:49He was doing, but he was still who he was.
20:51And he evolved.
20:52And I think he died before his time.
20:55And it's crazy because I was watching the Bruce Lee documentary last night, and it's the same time.
21:00It's the Nipsey Hussle shit.
21:01It's like all these people are great, but then you don't get to see what they do after because they're gone too soon.
21:08But my morals and my values and how I was raised and the things that I went through kept me alive and kept me safe because I was a thinker rather than somebody who just reacted.
21:18So the whole time, I've been thinking myself through this.
21:20I'm like, okay, I got to move here.
21:21I got to get close to this person.
21:22I got to understand this.
21:23I got to do that.
21:24But I'm already knowing that I'm going to lose some people along the way.
21:27It's no different than Jesus and his disciples.
21:30Like when he got there, you know what I'm saying?
21:32Like he lost people.
21:33They swapped on him.
21:34They traded on him.
21:36But he had a mission, and my mission is to be the best me I could possibly be because I wanted those things.
21:43I wanted to sit up here and be able to share my story and say I really came from nothing.
21:49You understand what I'm saying?
21:50Zero.
21:51But you're going to tell me the fact that President Obama is going to shout me out because he understands my word.
21:58He knows he can't stand next to me.
22:00That should say a lot.
22:01But he understands what I'm doing because he's there.
22:06He's been through these stages, and it's just like you're going to lose people and they're not going to understand.
22:12But when you get there, you know, and they see it.
22:15We didn't see what Jay-Z was doing.
22:17We didn't understand it.
22:18We just knew he came from Marcy Projects.
22:20So all this stuff he's been doing, we just started.
22:23And this is 20, 30 years in the making.
22:26Now everybody's just like, oh, man, he's been doing that.
22:30He's been told you a million dollars wasn't enough.
22:32He's been told you that he was going to turn this business and make this business and do all these things.
22:37So I understood that in my process that I was going to lose people, that I was going to gain people.
22:44But I also understood that I wasn't going to let public opinion or my followers or people who was watching what I'm doing affect what my plan, my mission, and my happiness was about.
22:59With that shot, as you've gotten to places, can you talk about a place where you had to challenge your own vision in order to grow?
23:08Because I think a lot of times, whether it's that anchor that is holding us sometimes because of where we come from, or sometimes what we've done is just actually gotten us to a peak where we can see stuff different than when we set the vision down in the valley.
23:26It's very simple. It's as simple as this conversation. It's a juxtaposition of mindsets.
23:32The reason why GZ is where he's at, Jay-Z, I put 50 Cent, a few other folks, they may not have been the first artists to do or talk some of the things they talked about, but they had a different survival mechanism that was centered around self, but understanding the value of them helps other things.
23:50The people that we're talking about all had a different mindset, which was communal and felt that they had to be around people.
23:58Pac put himself in spaces he shouldn't have been, right? Nipsey, same thing.
24:05But was so brilliant.
24:07Right.
24:08Brilliant.
24:09Right.
24:10Because they had a belief that it was just, it's just a, and the reason why I'm saying this is because my challenge was that.
24:17One of the principles that I grew up on, we used to have to do a creed in my house every morning, saying to my mother, was that the community is more important than the individual.
24:27Right.
24:28So I grew up with a mindset that I'm going, I'm sacrificing myself for the greater good at any given point.
24:33There was no personal perspective, right? I'm supposed to do this. I can go and make, but if my community didn't come with me.
24:44So there's a, and that's a different mentality than a hustler mentality. They're like, I need to get the fuck out of this. Right.
24:51I don't want to mean to curse, but I, you know what I mean? And so I had to battle that sometime like, yo, do I think about self in this situation?
24:59You know what I'm saying? And it's just a balancing act. Right. And you know, so when you read a book of like the 48 laws of power. Right. And inherently most people read that book and think that it's a bad book.
25:11Right. But if you, if you have power, you don't, if you feel powerless, it feels bad. And one of them is.
25:18It's also a difference between, is this what I do versus understanding what is being done?
25:21Done. Right. So the whole concept and mindset of, I can step on people and then come back. Right.
25:30That's what that feels like to me because I was so raised literally like my, my, my whole entire family were community organizers.
25:39You know, everything about was do for everybody else before you do for self. And I remember at a young age and I was like, how can you help others if you can't help yourself?
25:50So that to your question was my battle, right? Where the selfish things that I do, I had to stop feeling bad about it. Right.
26:01Survival's remorse.
26:02Yeah. And, but it wasn't even survivor's remorse.
26:04I want to elaborate on that.
26:05It wasn't even survivor's remorse. You can jump in.
26:07Survival's remorse for me. Because I think my, my struggle was the exact opposite. I grew up where nobody looked out for you.
26:15And you had to look at yourself. That's what I'm trying to say. It was just a, it's a different lens. Same thing.
26:21I never even saw that. Different lens. Yeah. Yeah. But I never even, I never even saw that. Like I, I'm being clear. Like I didn't have, the community leaders was the hustlers.
26:30Right. And the people that was looking out for people. And they, they were the ones you went to for help, advice, or the ones you looked at and looked up to.
26:38But they took care of people with ignorance, violence, and everything else. And that's what we respected. So you growing up and you seeing that, you're like, oh, I gotta be like this if I want respect.
26:49Which causes you to look out for yourself. It wasn't until the way my grandmother raised me is that I know that I gotta do good.
26:57So even through my music and everything I've done, it was always giving back the lessons of integrity, the motivation, the recession.
27:06Let me go up another level. Because I understand that. But I also think there's a point where all of that is still about survival.
27:15And at what, do you remember the point where you were like, yo, I got all of this shit vibing and it ain't enough.
27:24Because I need to thrive. And I, and this survival stuff still has me doing things in a way.
27:30Right. Even if it's for me. Right. That is not enough.
27:33So, so three things. The first thing is I had to come to grips with what served me before no longer serves me now.
27:39So the things that I, the way my antenna's up, the way I move, the way I think, it's militant.
27:45It's a hundred percent. You ain't never heard about nothing with me. You know what I'm saying? It wasn't on my side.
27:50Right. But that don't serve me no more. That ain't even power. You know what I'm saying?
27:54And the survivor's remorse is, which is crazy around the same time me and Shaka, I wrote The Recession.
28:00That was probably one of the most depressing times of my life. Because I was trying to grow.
28:04And in order for me to grow, I couldn't take my people with me.
28:07Cause they was getting me in too much shit. You know what I'm saying?
28:10I was losing too much. I was paying lawsuits.
28:12I was going through things that I didn't have to go through for myself.
28:15And I was in with the, what's this hotel in Buckhead?
28:19One of these hotels and I'm sitting there, I'm in the penthouse.
28:22And I got all these people in the penthouse and we party.
28:25And I got all this food and, and I'm just drinking all this champagne.
28:28And I'm just like, man, I'm not even happy.
28:31I got every, cars downstairs. I can go everywhere.
28:34But I'm not even like having enough time with myself to understand what's my next step in life.
28:42You know what I'm saying?
28:43And it wasn't until I got incarcerated the last time when I was in L.A.
28:47When that happened and Farrakhan told me it would happen because my message was changing my music.
28:52And he said that the police was going to do something to me and they did.
28:56I was in there and it was my first unselfish moment.
28:59But I really realized nobody was really with me.
29:02You know what I'm saying? And I wasn't happy.
29:04You know what I'm saying? So it was just like, when I get out of here, I'm going to start taking care of me.
29:08Because the survivor's remorse is what had me in a space where I felt like I was obligated to do things.
29:15And that's the mentality we come with. You see every football player, every person that comes from the hood that makes it out, they want to bring everybody with them.
29:22And I get the concept. You know what I'm saying?
29:24If you bring people around and they're making themselves useful and their assets are not liabilities, it's all good.
29:31But when they say you kill the head, the body will follow.
29:35It's been so many times the head's been knocked off the chopping block and I had to go pick up the pieces and put them back together myself.
29:41And I ain't had nobody to do that. And I'm being real.
29:44You're talking about I'm drinking myself eight or nine bottles of champagne a day and smoking and everything to numb it.
29:53But because I'm not happy because I feel like I want to go here, nobody else wants to go there.
29:59And then when I go there, I'm wrong and people looking at you like you changing.
30:03But it's like when I jumped off the porch, this was my mission. I allowed people to roll with me and get in my car.
30:08You know what I'm saying? You can't tell me if we supposed to be going from here to Lenox Mall, you can't say you want to stop off in Decatur.
30:16You know what I'm saying? And tell me that we got to pull over and go here because now you're distracting me.
30:20And if I'm honest, if I'm all the way honest, that was the hardest decision I ever made in my entire life.
30:31And it was not easy. And it was nice. I woke up in the middle of the night. Some mornings I woke up and I'm like, yo, bro, you're not even the same.
30:40You can't be solid if you're thinking like this. You can't be real if you're moving like this.
30:47But it wasn't until I got on the other side, started taking care of myself. You know what I'm saying?
30:52Like, you know, really like taking care of myself and like understanding that relationships are real relationships.
30:58And you're nervous those and you're around people that want to see you win and people who bring things to the table just because.
31:04People that tell you, oh, you don't know such and such. Let me introduce you to them. This is my guy. He's a great guy. You guys should talk.
31:09And you start seeing that and you're like, yo, these people really want me to win. And it's less baggage. It's less, it's less trauma.
31:17And I, and then, and I'm going to keep it a buck. It ain't like you just hanging around, you know, some, some, uh, what they call them roadies.
31:25You know what I'm saying? They want to carry bags. You running with real people to do real things. You know what I'm saying?
31:29I'm saying. So when you make that disconnect, you know, you know, it was things that happened behind the scenes that nobody would ever know that I had to deal with and I had to survive through.
31:39And it just wasn't an easy transition for me, but I'll tell anybody out there, like you can't allow yourself to not be who you supposed to be or who you supposed to become because of your surroundings.
31:52You know what I'm saying? Because you got to think when you left the hood, you're taking these surroundings with you around the world. You feel what I'm saying?
31:58You're taking them with you. So if they're not going to be an asset, you know what I'm saying? And they're a liability.
32:03You have to really think about that because now, like you said, you're running a fortune 500 company. It's your mama that's going to suffer.
32:10It's your kids going to suffer. It's your future that's going to suffer.
32:13It's the things that you're going to sit back and you're not going to have when you need them and you of age and you need all these things
32:19because you wasted all this money doing things that you had no business doing.
32:22And then when you really look at it and break it down, like the goal is to get money.
32:27The goal is to be successful. The goal is to be all these things. But if you ain't happy at the end of that shit, bro,
32:32you ain't did nothing. You know, I talk to Tony Robbins all the time.
32:35He's like, geez, you won't believe how many billionaires are unhappy. And they call me every day.
32:38They don't know what to do with themselves. And it's just like, I'm in the pursuit for happiness, bro.
32:42But that's broad shouldering. That's broad shouldering. So part of evolution and manhood is what we become good at,
32:49which is knowing your gift. Then you got to protect your gift. Right.
32:52But so it'd be like, okay, well, if I'm the leader of this, I'm broad shouldering everything, even with family.
32:57I had to get out of my own way. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not again, I'm never just worked with all types of folks.
33:04But I'm I've been like anti drugs my whole life because I just seen what it did to some of my family members.
33:09I've seen stuff my brother and I went through since I saw my cousin went through it.
33:13I was like, I I'm not getting in that game. Right. And had plenty of opportunity.
33:18But even with my son, bring back to my son, my son wants to get into cannabis and all that or what have you.
33:23And I've been I could have been in cannabis 10 years ago. I just was like, nah, that ain't my thing.
33:29And then my son's hitting me. He like, I'm like, I got to get out of my own way because one, they're legalizing it.
33:36And it's moving into a different space. But I might not be the one to make us billionaires.
33:40He might be the one just off of this. This is, you know, I'm saying like, so the broad shouldering aspect doesn't allow us sometimes to not only pivot as fast because we got so much on.
33:52So even when we know we should make that, it was like, I got all this weight. And I tell my children all the time, you got to lay bricks down with the higher up.
34:00You got a big backpack. You got to light them because that gravity pull is different.
34:05And and and so we it's just analogies and, you know, euphemisms to hopefully psychologically break some of the things that we deal with that makes it make sense.
34:15But those type of things that so that broad shouldering, I think, is the main thing is a big thing.
34:19And so much of that is about realizing even though there's my vision, I was never meant to do it by myself.
34:27Well, no, you're definitely not meant to do it by yourself.
34:30But you are meant to be in the company of people that want to.
34:35Oh, no, no doubt. And that's exactly that's that's exactly what I'm saying.
34:38And and for so many of us in our own evolution, we've blocked growth because we tried to carry the whole thing alone as opposed to get into that space where it's like, yo, I got full responsibility for this vision.
34:52But I got folks around me that got aligned visions.
34:58By the time I tell you how to do it, I could I could be undone it already.
35:01But the flip side of that is like, I'm gonna give you the opportunity.
35:05Mm hmm. But you guys show me you want it to.
35:07Yes. You got to show me. Yeah.
35:09You know, and if you drop the bar, you can't look at me.
35:11And that's the thing like not. But I'm also saying not doing it alone doesn't mean doing it with anybody.
35:17So so so a lot of times we we in a place where we got people with us that's employees versus got people with us that's partners that's partners.
35:28And and that's not about where you come from, what you look like.
35:32That's about what you're willing to do when you show up.
35:34But the thing is, going back to the the the bare bones of the conversation, it's just like.
35:42It's it's it's it's a complicated thing to evolve or persevere when you heal to these standards that we put on our culture.
35:52You're supposed to be like this, you're supposed to get it this way, supposed to be like even the respect of it.
35:58Like like like you can go out here and make a billion dollars investing in the Oregon.
36:03The culture don't care. You know what I'm saying?
36:06But you go out here and you you flip something and you make a half a million.
36:11You solid. So you're looking for that high to be to do it a certain way.
36:16But even in my life, I never would have thought that I can employ this many black people.
36:22I never thought that I would be in a place where my employees are getting insurance and all these different.
36:28You know, I mean, just all these different things because of how I set up my business.
36:32But that was division. So it just makes you look at it.
36:36It's like you went through all these steps to get here.
36:39Now you're here. And it's just like when I think about my life, I think about the next 10.
36:43Where I want to be at when that 10 years is over, how I want to live.
36:46And that's the big thing. We don't know what I'm saying.
36:48We don't do 30 year plans.
36:49Right. So I'm doing 10s.
36:51Yeah, right.
36:52That's enough like.
36:53But even in school, where do you see yourself in five years?
36:56Right.
36:57You'd be like, what?
36:58Five years. I know where you'll be at tonight.
37:01But as we get out of here, you said something earlier about about our kids.
37:06And how do we prepare our kids to have or not.
37:12Exactly. And and and I still I think is a lot about what Jesus is saying right now, which is the culture doesn't respect this.
37:22I just think that's all bullshit. I agree 100 percent.
37:29But we are the culture.
37:31And the moment as men that we get to the place where we say, wait a minute, I am the culture.
37:37And if I do this, I'm expanding the culture, not limiting the culture.
37:42I'm opening the eyes of I'm opening the eyes of some folks that's watching me and they may not even know how to appreciate it today.
37:50I swear that that's the only thing that keeps me going.
37:54I look at it is when I came in the game, I wasn't rapping. I wasn't no rapper.
37:59I just was somebody who understood how to get paper and they had a vision.
38:02They saw some other people do it like cash money on people.
38:05I was like, yo, I could do that.
38:07And that was the way that I wanted to get it done.
38:10But my whole motivation for us, my whole just my whole ambition, where my ambitions come from is pushing the envelope.
38:18Because the thing about all the people that's in the game now that came from streets to music, you had to know 80 percent of them like, yo, geez, he did that.
38:25I knew him before he did that. I see him in 112. I saw he did it.
38:28So they in the game. They're making millions of dollars doing what they do.
38:32And I love to see that. I'm clapping that because that was that was what Trap or Die was about.
38:36But now I was the big homie. I got to go open up some more doors.
38:39They got to see me getting some uncomfortable spaces that's challenging me.
38:42I'm not the smartest person in the room when I go in there no more.
38:45But I'm cool with that. You know what I'm saying?
38:47But I'm trying to open some more doors.
38:49So what do you do when you're in the game and you, you, you, you 20, 30 million records in 15 million, 15 million in the game and 12, 13 years in the game?
38:58Like, what do you do? You have to go do something else.
39:02You have to open up some more doors.
39:04And what you're saying is what I'm saying.
39:06That's what keeps me going is pushing the coach and saying, bro, it don't get no cooler than me.
39:11I don't give a damn who you is. Where you from?
39:13Every penitentiary, every street corner, everywhere. They know who I am.
39:17So when I go and I do these things that take me outside my comfort zone, it's no one pushing me for you.
39:23And, and.
39:24You know what I'm saying?
39:25It's, and, and it's about that no matter where you from.
39:28Right.
39:29So it's a youngin' right now watching who don't know street life.
39:31Right.
39:32Don't know jail life.
39:33Who don't know drug life.
39:34Right.
39:35Don't feel enough part of the culture.
39:37Right.
39:38Cause the shit that he like ain't cool to the people around him.
39:41And, and he trying to figure out his identity in the midst of, I could be the next grand champion of chess.
39:47But everybody at my school, like that's some whack shit.
39:50Right.
39:51Or I'm, I'm that kid that's an artist.
39:54Um, and nobody in my community understands the complexity and the history and the beauty and the brilliance of art.
40:00Or I'm that kid who just understands numbers.
40:04And I don't, I don't had it in me to, to go on the corner and do this.
40:09But I got this crazy idea that everybody else thinks is nuts.
40:13Right.
40:14But I know in my spirit, this is what's leading me.
40:16And, and so I appreciate this discussion cause you said it earlier shock.
40:20There is not one pathway.
40:21Right.
40:22And there is not one way.
40:24And if, and if we are able to understand that and then respect it.
40:29Right.
40:30And it's not even just about money cause we can, you know, people who just respect money is a bunch of lame dudes with money.
40:36We do want to respect the process.
40:37I respect this man's process.
40:39Period.
40:40Right.
40:41You know what I'm saying?
40:42From what I heard to what I know to what I see.
40:44You know what I'm saying?
40:45They three different things.
40:46What you hear, what you know, what you see is three.
40:48But we don't always see it all.
40:49My son, my children grow up with me.
40:51They don't know what I, they literally whip me.
40:53They still don't know what I do.
40:54They don't know the contracts and all of that.
40:56And then it just looks cool to them.
40:58I pick up the phone.
40:59They see Jeezy.
41:00And then we get, and then we got a nice house.
41:03They don't, they don't really know.
41:04And then you hear somebody, Oh, your father is this.
41:07You know what I'm saying?
41:09So it's like this, those three segments that have to be connected.
41:12And on that, cause they've been trying to wrap me for about the last 15 minutes is,
41:18uh, the fact that we can't had is this, this is not the start of the end of this conversation.
41:23It's a continuation of, of it for some, it's the beginning for others.
41:27Um, it's a level of understanding for others.
41:29And for some, it's even revelatory.
41:32And so the reason we do dear black men is to sometimes disrupt the normal conversations.
41:39We're having to try to have some new ones or have them in a different way.
41:42So I just appreciate one, uh, shock and Jeezy for you joining in a conversation.
41:48That's not easy to have in a short amount of time.
41:50Um, but encouraging you wherever you are right now to continue this discussion
41:55with whoever you with, find yourself in it.
41:58Um, and, and understand if, if you're old with wisdom, uh, or an elder with wisdom,
42:04or if you're young and strong and begin to look for those that have the wisdom
42:09or the strength that you need to partner with, uh, for your own evolution.
42:13Um, and, undeniable, and independency, or something like that.
42:14Um, we appreciate it.
42:15All right.
42:16Um, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and.