- 5 days ago
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🎮️
GamingTranscript
00:00Welcome, Kat and Charlotte.
00:06Now, before we get into this, because we've got a lot to talk about,
00:09Charlotte, can I ask you about your socks?
00:11Yes, look, they say faithful and traitor.
00:14Amazing.
00:15How good.
00:16I love it.
00:17I love them.
00:18I just think it's nice to have one foot representing each of my roles in the castle.
00:21Yeah.
00:22And Kat, I like your trainers.
00:26Now, as traitors, you are used to being in control in the turret.
00:31That's obviously where you do all of your scheming,
00:33but how are Rachel and Stephen feeling in this moment
00:35as the secret traitor is about to walk through the door?
00:38No, I'm really jealous because I basically want to go back and be a secret traitor.
00:42I'm really jealous.
00:43That red cloak, unbelievable.
00:45Yeah, it's pretty swish.
00:48Yeah.
00:49As my dad would say.
00:51I don't know who it is.
00:53No, if that was me, I would have just surrendered to the fact that I don't know who it is.
00:56Yeah.
00:57And then each day we get a shortlist, I would just write down or mentally note down
01:01who the shortlist people are.
01:02Exactly.
01:03And then if I live to see the day that I get really, really far in, I'd go,
01:07right, well, I could just whittle it down.
01:09It's probably one of these people.
01:11Yeah.
01:12That could be it.
01:13I'd be stressed going, I need to find out, like, who the secret traitor is.
01:17Because I just, I think that's what Rachel's doing too much.
01:19She's not playing, remembering that people might be thinking who, like, who's a traitor.
01:24Because no one else is thinking there's a secret traitor.
01:26Exactly.
01:27Because no one else knows there's a secret traitor.
01:28She's like watching everybody.
01:29And I'm like, no, just wait, just chill out.
01:31There's no point.
01:32She's got enough going on.
01:33Yeah, exactly.
01:34She doesn't need to worry about who the secret traitor is as well.
01:36We're going to go on a deep dive with all the theories.
01:38Okay.
01:39I do want to know though, how did we rate Rachel's attempt to get Stephen to the family tree
01:44to do the shortlist selection?
01:46What, like needing to learn some Latin or something?
01:48Yeah, you speak Latin, don't you?
01:50Yeah, I mean.
01:51And Rhys was like, I'll count.
01:52And she was like, oh man, get away, no.
01:55In fact, Rhys left straight away, just left them in the kitchen.
01:57I know, and then Rhys was like, oh, I don't want to go alone.
01:59I don't want to go by myself.
02:00And she was like, oh.
02:01See, I thought that was quite good.
02:03That it was a good excuse to get him to the family tree.
02:06But the bit that really set my teeth on edge a little bit is when she sort of got rid of Rhys
02:11to keep her and Stephen alone now.
02:12Yeah, I don't think she should have done that.
02:14And then I didn't Stephen clock it.
02:15He was like, well, now Rhys will literally know.
02:18If they spot.
02:19If it comes down, if it's revealed that the death was done by the family tree.
02:23Let's remind ourselves of that moment of when Rachel tries to shake off Rhys.
02:27Such a connection here.
02:30There's a big connection here.
02:32Like that's very, very dangerous.
02:34Yeah.
02:35Speaking of dangerous.
02:37I've honestly.
02:38I need to give you a heads up on something.
02:41I can go if you want me to go.
02:42I don't mind going.
02:43Will you give me, I want to just.
02:45Of course, of course.
02:46Sorry, sorry.
02:47No, don't be daft, don't be daft.
02:48Oh my God.
02:49See, what's interesting about that is she doesn't say, can you go, Therese?
02:53He does offer that.
02:54But I still think he'll remember that they were by the family tree together.
02:58If indeed someone spots on the family tree that there's those marks on there.
03:02I think it was bad wording.
03:04Either she should have just waited it out until Rhys left and got bored of looking at the family tree.
03:10We should say as well, we know Rhys is faithful at this point because he's been on a murder shortlist previously.
03:15Oh.
03:16So how do we think they did, Kat, in terms of selecting the people on the portrait?
03:20Do you think they took too long or?
03:22I don't think she really thought about it because I guess statistically the secret traitor would have picked one of those nine anyway, so.
03:29I would have just put my finger on the painting and just done a line.
03:32Yeah, just smeared it across and just tried to cover the bases.
03:35And then signed Ross kiss.
03:37Yeah.
03:38I think Rachel is very, yeah, very thoughtful and she is thinking about you.
03:41She does seem quite a good traitor.
03:42So thinking if I put my finger in the red paint pot, I'm holding a red glass.
03:47Yeah.
03:48So I don't want to be able to see that.
03:49And then she goes and washes the glass and washes her finger at the same time.
03:51Yes.
03:52It is like watching a sort of murder plot happen.
03:53Yeah.
03:54Everything is just down the drain.
03:55Yeah.
03:56Yeah, it's very Agatha Christie, the whole thing.
03:57It is.
03:58What do we make of this pact that Rachel and Stephen made?
04:00Oh my God, the hug.
04:01The extended hug.
04:02Like, I'm never going to vote for you.
04:04I'm never going to vote for you.
04:05Yeah.
04:06Too much.
04:08I mean, I can't wait for that to be shown in a flashback moment.
04:11In like two episodes time.
04:13I mean, it's really early on in the game.
04:15I think that I don't think you should be doing that.
04:17I think Stephen especially has shown that if enough heaters on someone, he will dash them.
04:22Yeah.
04:23So I, if I was Stephen, I would have been like, of course, I'm not voting your name.
04:28Yeah.
04:29Cross my fingers behind my back.
04:30Yeah.
04:31Um, because I would have to vote for her if like-
04:34Yeah.
04:35To protect yourself if you had to.
04:36Exactly.
04:37You have to.
04:38So I think that was, you know, that was sweet that they did that.
04:39But I don't think that-
04:40I don't think that-
04:41I don't think either of them believed it.
04:42No, I agree.
04:43I don't think there was any sincerity from either side.
04:45Yeah.
04:46I think it is so early on and now we're going to meet another secret traitor.
04:49I mean, I honestly, I feel like this, with the way Hugo's gone so soon and then the secret traitor,
04:56I could see the traitors at the end being brand new traitors.
04:59Let's talk more about the secret traitor.
05:01I want secret traitor guesses from both of you.
05:04So we know who it isn't because of the murder shortlists.
05:07Yeah.
05:08Rhys, Maz and James are the ones who are left in the game who we know are faithful.
05:12And obviously Nettie, Judy, Ben and Hugo are all gone.
05:16Kat, who do you think it is and why?
05:18At first I thought it was Jade.
05:21Maybe because I just think she's a queen and that she's really fab and that she'd be great at it.
05:26I also did think it was Ellie because she's a psychologist.
05:34Yeah.
05:35And I just thought that would be amazing for a psychologist.
05:37You should be puppeteering everyone and like using her degree.
05:40Fiona as well, because she keeps saying things that might allude to the fact that she could be one.
05:46Can it be Ross?
05:47It could be Ross.
05:48Ooh.
05:49It could be Ross.
05:50Should I go really left? No, Ross is in an absolute pickle.
05:52He's sweet. He can't get his words out. He's just panicked all the time.
05:55Could we briefly understand this Ross Nettie situation of like...
05:59He didn't articulate himself in the best way when probed about it.
06:03And I think because everyone's just looking at people in a really suspicious, with a suspicious lens,
06:08and because he didn't word things the way they wanted him to word things,
06:12which is, I think, just what the game is.
06:14You act differently to me.
06:15Totally.
06:16And I think that way is weird, therefore I'm voting for you.
06:18Therefore you're suspicious.
06:19So I think, for him, he just was like,
06:21oh, you know, my plan was just to act like I didn't know her.
06:23And then people were like, your plan?
06:24What do you mean your plan?
06:25What if he is the secret traitor?
06:27I think that would be great if he was.
06:29Kat, obviously this is a great opportunity to play the game at home.
06:32And this would be your first time playing as a faithful.
06:35How does that feel?
06:36I don't like it.
06:39You want control.
06:40It's not fun.
06:41I don't enjoy it.
06:42No, it's fun.
06:43I think it's actually, it's fun to not know.
06:45And it's fun to be with the rest of the world and be confused as well.
06:49It's fun to not know who a traitor is without the worry of being murdered.
06:53Exactly.
06:56Okay.
06:57Now, traitor Hugo and faithful Ben are about to join the conversation.
07:00But first, it's time to find out what happened when they came face to face immediately after leaving the game.
07:06Ben!
07:11How are you?
07:12Yeah, good mate.
07:13Oh, good to see you mate.
07:14I'm here.
07:18What I want to know is what happened at breakfast?
07:21Well, we twigged it was you.
07:23And obviously, we did take a moment to say what an excellent competitor and player you've been.
07:29Right, okay.
07:30How sorely you'd be missed.
07:31So that was definitely the feeling at breakfast.
07:32They were very sad that you weren't there.
07:34Right.
07:35I actually think there's five traitors.
07:36Mmm.
07:37That's what I've written down.
07:38Right.
07:39I've got three little other suspects, but they're my five traitors.
07:42My five traitors are...
07:44Maz.
07:45Yeah.
07:46Amanda.
07:47Yeah.
07:48Ross.
07:49Yeah.
07:50Sam.
07:51Got it.
07:52And you.
07:53You're a barrister.
07:54True.
07:55Right.
07:56We're sitting at the round table and I'm looking at you.
07:58Now you're perfect today.
08:00This was you at the round table.
08:02Ah.
08:03As if you couldn't care about anything that was going on.
08:08I was waiting for people to ask questions.
08:11Not once did you cross-examine anybody at the round table.
08:16Right.
08:17And I thought, what is going on here?
08:19Right.
08:20So now I want to know, what were you, a traitor or a faithful?
08:27You are a very canny man.
08:30What are you telling me?
08:33You're a traitor.
08:34A devil.
08:35You're a traitor.
08:37Yes!
08:38Get in there!
08:39Congrats.
08:40Get in there!
08:41And it's because you were on to me, we thought you would never be banished.
08:44Because you were never a traitor.
08:47Everyone could see you were faithful, Ben.
08:49And that's just a massive compliment to you.
08:51You wore your heart on your sleeve.
08:52You were walking around trying to find the traitors every day.
08:56Yeah.
08:57So I hope you take it as a compliment.
08:58No, I do. Thank you.
08:59That you had to be murdered because you would never be banished.
09:01Yeah.
09:02So Ben, I bet you want to know who the others were.
09:04Yes, I do.
09:05So if you reach to your left, sir.
09:09Have a look.
09:10It's in there.
09:11The secrets of who the other traitors were.
09:13Oh, this is exciting.
09:15What's it say?
09:16Read it.
09:17Hugo.
09:18Oh, you knew that.
09:25Rachel!
09:26Bloody hell.
09:29Now why are you so surprised?
09:30Oh, she never changed her demeanour at all.
09:33That has really surprised me.
09:34Now she is canny and under the radar.
09:36When I saw her in the turret...
09:38Gee.
09:39I had the same reaction as you just did, Ben.
09:41I thought, no way!
09:42Jesus!
09:43You're so under the radar.
09:45Okay, go on.
09:46And...
09:52Stephen!
09:53Stephen!
09:54Only three.
09:55Well, Ross.
09:56What the hell was Ross doing?
09:58Ross is digging himself a hole so deep he could play in Traitors Australia.
10:04Really?
10:05I mean, that man is entirely innocent and yet has covered himself in guilt, suspicion.
10:11That's why I thought he was a traitor.
10:13Yeah.
10:15And Traitor Hugo and Faithful Ben are with us now!
10:18Hey!
10:19Thanks for having us.
10:20Welcome.
10:22I have to mention the outfits to start with, guys.
10:24You both look fantastic.
10:25Hugo with the crimson velvet tuxedo.
10:29The lining as well.
10:30The...
10:31Space.
10:32The space-based lining.
10:33And Ben, of course, with the blue...
10:35Midnight blue.
10:36Midnight blue.
10:38Midnight blue velvet tuxedo.
10:39You look fantastic.
10:40And sometimes it's awkward when you turn up and you're wearing the same thing, but I
10:43think it's really worked for you guys.
10:44Oh, thank you.
10:45Thanks.
10:46Hugo, you're a real Welshman, of course.
10:48Yes.
10:49How does it feel to come face-to-face with Charlotte, the fake Welsh person?
10:52Wow!
10:53Lost me far!
10:54Shemay!
10:55Shemay, Charlotte!
10:57When they started saying that you were Welsh towards the end of your departure, I was
11:02like, what?
11:03You didn't sound Welsh at all!
11:04I don't know.
11:05Maybe it's just...
11:06It comes and goes.
11:07What did you make of Charlotte's accent on the show?
11:09It was good.
11:10Yeah, it was good.
11:11Because it was low-key.
11:12It wasn't, you know, sing-songy, beautiful Queen Fiona.
11:15You know what?
11:16It had to be.
11:17Because although Fiona was everything I ever wanted to channel, which is like absolutely amazing,
11:21mother-of-dragons, that kind of thing.
11:24Yeah.
11:25It takes so much energy to keep that up.
11:27Yeah.
11:28Oh, Charlotte.
11:29Church was in the room with two.
11:30Massively pared back.
11:32Kat, what did you make of Hugo as a traitor?
11:34How do you rate his efforts?
11:36Do you know what?
11:37I think you did a really good job.
11:41Now, can you say that once more without laughing?
11:44No, no, no.
11:46I think the speech was, was, I think, I think it was when you were like, whoever did this
11:53should not be happy with themselves.
11:56Can we just have a moment?
11:57Because Ben, I was next to him yesterday and I was sweating a bit, but that senior gentleman
12:02was giving absolutely everything.
12:04Yeah, yeah, for the mission he was.
12:05That was a tough mission.
12:06That hill two thirds of the way through.
12:08Whoever has done that is beyond mean.
12:10I think everyone went, ooh, I think it's you, Sweet Bee.
12:18To be fair though, if you'd done that and been a faithful, it still would have been suspicious.
12:23Like Kaz, I did a Kaz.
12:24That is literally what I said.
12:26I think it's just drawing too much attention to yourself.
12:28You cannot draw attention to yourself.
12:29Right.
12:30And because you are a traitor, it was like, nah.
12:32Definitely.
12:33You shot yourself in the foot.
12:34Big stale, didn't you?
12:35Yeah.
12:36But I was giving you a send off.
12:37Yeah, mate, you don't need to be so...
12:38It's a funny way you're short, isn't it?
12:39Do you know what?
12:40I think it would have been better if you had done it in a smaller group.
12:43Yeah.
12:44When you were just eating or whatever, you could have just been like, oh, do you know what?
12:47Yeah.
12:48Instead of being like, ah!
12:50You commanded the attention of the room, which I think is always a mistake.
12:54Always.
12:55But halfway through, I thought you've got away with this because you said,
12:58didn't Ben do well in the mission and all of that sort of thing.
13:01And people agreed with you.
13:02They went, yeah, he did really well.
13:03And then when you slipped into the second half and went, it's beyond mean.
13:07And you just see, you see a shot of Rachel just going, oh my God.
13:11Yeah.
13:12Rachel's staring.
13:13Yeah.
13:14Ben, we saw that incredible moment in that clip there where you accuse Hugo of being a traitor
13:19before he's revealed it.
13:20Yes.
13:21Literally pointing the finger at him.
13:22Yes.
13:23Yes.
13:24How did that make you feel when you found out you were right?
13:25Yes.
13:26Brilliant.
13:27Right?
13:28Got him and a winner.
13:29And I knew it was him.
13:30He was sitting at the round table.
13:31And every time I looked at him, he was like this.
13:33I was off duty.
13:34And I thought, what is he playing at?
13:35Off duty.
13:36I was off the clock.
13:37I'm a lawyer, right?
13:38The clock wasn't ready.
13:39And then he was gobbing off left, right and centre to everybody.
13:41And I thought, what are you doing mate?
13:42I know.
13:43You're definitely a traitor.
13:44Now, obviously Ben, that was a great accusation of Hugo that we've just seen.
13:49But Hugo, how did that compare to being absolutely railroaded and intensely questioned by Harriet
13:55at the round table?
13:56I was chopped off at the ankles.
13:58I was defeated.
13:59Yeah.
14:00I mean, you know, yeah, it was like a machine gun opening up and there was just no way back
14:04to it.
14:05And fair play to her.
14:06I don't know if she's fallen out with another barrister in the past, perhaps.
14:09It may have been the motivation, but the delivery of it, it was like a missile.
14:13But she's hiding that.
14:14So hats off to her or wigs off to her, as we say.
14:16Well, let's remind ourselves of that.
14:18Oh, please, let's.
14:19Oh, yes.
14:20It has occurred to me from the moment that I found out that you were a barrister, that
14:26you would be a prime target for the traitors to take out.
14:31You have experience at cross-examination, you're good at presenting your case and you're
14:36highly articulate.
14:37So I had in my mind, as I came into breakfast this morning, if you had survived, that really
14:44raised big questions in my mind.
14:48A number of people also said that they were intimidated by your professional position to
14:55take you on.
14:57They are hard backs, as far as I'm concerned.
15:00That was intense pressure.
15:03That must have felt really intense in there.
15:05Yeah.
15:06At that point, really.
15:07Yeah.
15:08There's not really much you could do about thinking about the exit and how you're going
15:10to get out of there.
15:11I mean, look, that logic you cannot deny.
15:14Yeah.
15:15As she said, you're either a traitor or the traitors are going to think, well, this guy
15:19eventually is going to do something useful.
15:20Yeah.
15:21So why didn't they get rid of me?
15:22Yeah.
15:23So I had a strategy, which obviously didn't work.
15:25Well, first of all, enjoy the short time you've got there.
15:27Yeah.
15:28Try and do a couple of, you know, mess around a bit.
15:30And second, be chaotic, not slick, because people think a lawyer is going to be really professional
15:35and down the line.
15:37That didn't bother me much time.
15:38And then, and this was just such a moonshot, if I could find a traitor.
15:43I may be one of the only traitors ever on this fantastic show, a traitor genuinely
15:48looking for a traitor, the secret traitor.
15:50Yeah.
15:51Because as you guys know, when you are a traitor, you have to act like a faithful.
15:55Yeah.
15:56So that was a really good head space to be in, was like looking for one.
15:59Yeah.
16:00Did you have an inkling in that moment with Harriet that you were going toe-to-toe with
16:03a fellow barrister or ex-barrister as Harriet is?
16:06100%.
16:07I thought that she was, yeah, a very senior, respected lawyer who we just hadn't crossed
16:13paths.
16:14Right.
16:15Or even worse, perhaps she'd sent me a brief and I'd, you know, been against her.
16:17But there was something there that was not on display.
16:20Just in that moment when she said that.
16:21That was motivating her.
16:22Yeah.
16:23But then as I say, the execution of it was just...
16:25Outstanding.
16:26Yeah, and she was telling the truth.
16:28But she's kept it a secret, her profession.
16:30Yeah.
16:31Did you consider Heidi yours?
16:32I did.
16:33I did.
16:34But I thought again, go in there and don't treat it like a court, treat it like a stage.
16:38Yeah.
16:39And I was kind of trying to channel Phantom of the Opera meets, you know, some sort of
16:43slapstick.
16:44Sorry mate.
16:45Is that right?
16:46There's a wonderful moment in that exchange as well, where you are trying to dig your
16:50way out of this hole as Harriet's speaking and you say, well yeah, a lot of people have
16:53mentioned that I've not been cross-examining anyone at the round table.
16:56And Harriet goes, yeah, I hadn't even considered that.
16:59But yeah, that's also part of my argument against you.
17:01Yeah, well I'll have that.
17:02Yeah.
17:03Thanks mate.
17:04Yeah.
17:05Taxi!
17:06Now, obviously Stephen voted for you at this round table, turned on you very early.
17:11Did you expect that to happen so early in the game?
17:13Look, traitors gonna trait, trait, trait, trait, trait.
17:15You gotta just shake it off, shake it off.
17:18The names for traitors, we're all traitors.
17:20Yeah.
17:21Of course.
17:22But he didn't have to.
17:23You know, it's so early on, he could have voted for someone else and it wouldn't be,
17:26I don't think, suspicious to have voted for anyone else.
17:29Yeah.
17:30I think he saw it where he was going.
17:31Yeah, but I think he was panicking.
17:32I think Stephen was actually panicking and he thought to himself, I'm gonna join the
17:35clan and I'm gonna vote.
17:36Oh yeah, that's a good point.
17:37Because he was under pressure because of the room.
17:38Because he was under pressure.
17:39Because he was in the room.
17:40Right, so he thought to himself, right, I'm gonna vote for you.
17:42Yeah.
17:43But then it takes a bit of pressure off me.
17:44Yeah.
17:45And that's what I think he did.
17:46Yeah.
17:47I got no problem with it.
17:48He was the best dressed traitor.
17:49Oh yeah.
17:50And his lovely sort of soft voice.
17:52Yeah.
17:53And then he's the brutal killer.
17:54Yeah.
17:55It's just great.
17:56So obviously there was a lot of chat about keeping your behaviour consistent after the
18:00trade selection.
18:01I think we are sat with the absolute queen of staying consistent after the trade selection.
18:06Kat, what do you think Hugo could have done to maybe stay under the radar as you
18:11did?
18:12I think jobs play a really big part in the game.
18:16Because I'm a singer and I make vulnerable songs, it's easier for me to, my disposition
18:21to just be naturally calm and quiet.
18:23Because it's hard when you're a traitor, when you know someone is a faithful, to go for them
18:27and say, I think you're a faithful because of X, Y and Z.
18:30I know that they're gonna come back and go, well I'm not because of X, Y and Z.
18:33And you know that they're not.
18:34So it's easier.
18:35That's why most traitors will sit back because they're like, I know none of these people
18:39are so I'm just gonna.
18:40But because your job, people would expect you to speak up and say something because
18:44you didn't.
18:45That backfired.
18:46So I think if I was you I probably would have tried my hardest to go for people a bit more
18:51or say theories a bit more so that people think that you're actively trying to be in the game
18:57and find a traitor.
18:58Ben, I do want to, I want to ask you this.
19:00You mentioned that Hugo was one of your five names, as we know.
19:03Yes.
19:04Well, he was number one.
19:05Is he who you would have gone for at the next round table?
19:08Yes.
19:09Would you have voted for?
19:10Yes, 100%.
19:11Yeah.
19:12Really?
19:13I did, yeah, 100%.
19:14Judy, I changed my mind with Judy, right?
19:16I was actually gonna go for Ross, right?
19:19Surprisingly.
19:20But the consensus, the opinion round the table, I just followed everybody else because
19:25everything that was coming out, I thought maybe I'm wrong here and it is Judy.
19:28But then it was him.
19:29He was next.
19:30In fact, if I had two votes, I'd have voted them twice.
19:33Well, it's nothing personal mate, I would have killed you twice.
19:37Sorry.
19:38Hugo, after you left, after you were banished, we saw Rachel being quite delighted that you'd
19:49been banished.
19:50She maybe said it on two or three occasions going, I'm absolutely, using the word delighted,
19:53I'm absolutely delighted that Hugo's gone.
19:55How does that feel?
19:56Well, I took the opposite meaning.
19:58Okay.
19:59No, and those two, because of the way they're playing it under the radar, I think they're very,
20:06very well-matched, very good team.
20:07Actually, the three of us, we got on in the turret.
20:10We never really disagreed about, well, we didn't have much choice.
20:13You thought you got on.
20:14Yeah.
20:15Yeah, fair enough.
20:16Behind closed doors.
20:17It's the traitors, right?
20:18It is the traitors.
20:19Because I think quite quickly, Rachel was saying, Hugo will throw me under the bus at
20:24the first given opportunity.
20:26Rachel didn't trust you straight away.
20:27I messed that up, because I said I'd throw the secret traitor under the bus when they
20:31came into the thing.
20:32And Rachel picked me up and said, well, you're going to do the same to us.
20:35So, you know, day one, lesson one of diplomacy school.
20:37Yeah.
20:38Don't, you know.
20:39Yeah.
20:40Because you can't trust anyone.
20:41Yeah.
20:42Even if you're team traitor or team faithful, you are really just team you.
20:45Yeah.
20:46You can only really look out for yourself.
20:47I think so.
20:48Ben, I want to talk about your murder a little bit now.
20:50Oh dear.
20:51What was it like to walk in and see the dreaded envelope on the chair?
20:56Oh, what a nightmare that was, wasn't it?
20:58That was...
20:59But there again, I've got to say, I've won by being on that show.
21:03Right?
21:04Whether I was murdered or not, to be on the show, I've won already.
21:07Yeah.
21:08So, to see the envelope, I knew it was part of the game, but I was absolutely gutted.
21:12And I knew it was him.
21:13I knew, hands down, it was him.
21:16I don't even know why I'm sitting here.
21:18Oh, mate, come on, come on.
21:19It's because I know your point.
21:21And I was absolutely gutted, but I was thrilled to do the game.
21:24And I think I said that on my exit.
21:26Yeah.
21:27Yeah.
21:28But to be fair, we wouldn't have chosen that shortlist.
21:30And we did have a choice of three.
21:34And there were four of us, we know now, that put you in the frame.
21:37There were two others you could have picked rather than me.
21:40Yeah.
21:41Or I'm a quarter guilty.
21:44But you were an amazing detective, and that's why I was happy to vote for you.
21:48Because when you asked me sort of four or five questions on the bounce,
21:50I thought, I cannot get anything past this one.
21:53Yeah.
21:54You were an amazing sort of detective investigator character, I think,
21:57picking up on every little thing that was said and done.
22:00And you were so nice, you know, we had to get with you
22:02because you never would have been banished, mate.
22:04Yeah, I know you said that.
22:05That was really kind of you.
22:06That's true.
22:07Do you think this is truthful or do you think he's dressing it all up as a compliment?
22:09No, I think that bit's truthful because he actually said that to me.
22:12He says, I don't think you were ever going to get banished.
22:15And I think that came across when they were all speaking at breakfast anyway.
22:18Yeah, I think so.
22:19I really appreciated that.
22:20Yeah.
22:21That's the only thing I'll take is pause it.
22:23Oh, well.
22:25Charlotte, would you have chosen to murder Ben on that shortlist?
22:29Because the rest of the shortlist was Reece and Maz.
22:31It was Maz's second time, wasn't it?
22:33It was.
22:34On the list of three.
22:35So to be honest, I'd probably just be like, yeah, okay, two strikes.
22:37Yeah.
22:38But we didn't know in the turret what was the secret traitor thinking to put Maz on twice.
22:43In a way, it protects the secret traitor because if you keep repetition on the list, you're not, every time they put a new name on the list, you know they're not the secret traitor.
22:53Yeah, true.
22:54So by repeating it.
22:55Yeah.
22:56It's like three dimensions.
22:57No, I know.
22:58I mean, frankly, we were saying they should have repeated both two.
23:00Yeah.
23:01And then, you know, just changed one.
23:02Yeah.
23:03So I think that's sensible from them.
23:05I would have got rid of Reece.
23:06Yeah.
23:07I would have kept you in, Ben.
23:08Yeah.
23:10Oh, you're so lovely.
23:11There we are.
23:12But it was the choice to murder.
23:16I love you, Kat.
23:17Yeah, I love you too.
23:18I think they went for you, and I may be wrong, Hugo, as well, because you were the most liked or the one that everyone thought, why would you ever kill Ben?
23:26And it causes the most chaos.
23:28Yeah.
23:29That's right.
23:30An earthquake under the castle and all that kind of thing.
23:32And it did, it did, because it has people looking in every direction, and then they're all snapping at each other.
23:36Yeah, I totally agree with that, because if I'd have been a traitor, I'd have done the same.
23:40Yeah.
23:41Absolutely.
23:42I'd have looked at, well, the person that was, I'm not saying I was popular, but the person that was kind of under the radar that was quite nice, I'd have been Dame.
23:50Yeah.
23:51Without a doubt.
23:52Okay, Ben and Hugo, I have to get both of your thoughts on the twist of the century, which is, of course, the secret traitor, which you were party to.
24:00At the moment we find out about the secret traitor, Hugo.
24:02But Ben, I mean, you're obviously just finding out about it as you watch the show go out.
24:06Watch the show, yeah.
24:07Yeah.
24:08We know that Maz is a faithful, but can I get your reasons to why you suspect the other players that you put on your list, please?
24:15Because obviously one of them could be the secret traitor.
24:18You've got Amanda, who you suspected.
24:20Yeah.
24:21Yeah.
24:22Why do you think she might be a traitor?
24:23Amanda, Amanda to me was very, she was very inquisitive.
24:27She was like a lawyer, I suppose, or a barrister or detective or something like that.
24:33Yeah.
24:34She was interested in everything that was going on and I thought, right, okay, why is she doing that?
24:38And she was having a go at you quite a lot, wasn't she?
24:40Yeah, yeah.
24:41Right?
24:42She's not all burnt.
24:43And I thought, right, okay, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but I've still got this 10% about you that I'm not fully covered with.
24:49Yeah.
24:50Yeah.
24:51So that was kind of her.
24:52Such an amazing moment at breakfast as well when they all start talking about how funny it would be if there was a secret detective in there.
24:58Yeah.
24:59And she just has to sit there like...
25:00Yeah.
25:02You also suspected Ross. We know that there was a lot of suspicions around Ross.
25:05Oh, Ross was really...
25:07Oh, Ross.
25:08Is that mainly because of the Nettie situation and how he reacted to it?
25:11Yeah, it was a Nettie situation and then if you watch it back when Judy goes, right, now everybody goes, oh, like that.
25:18Ross is, whoa!
25:20Right?
25:21If you watch his reaction and I thought, that's a bit over the top.
25:24So that's why I was heading down his route.
25:26Well, I think we can agree that the secret traitor twist is gigantic.
25:30It's one of the biggest twists that's ever been on the show.
25:32Yeah.
25:33Hugo, you referred to it as feeling like middle management.
25:35Yes.
25:36When Claudia told you what was happening.
25:39How did you feel that moment when Claudia let you know that someone else would be feeding you the shortlist every night?
25:44I wanted a direct report to my queen of darkness.
25:47It was really annoying because I wanted to kill Fiona, for example, because I couldn't lie to her because she was just like lying to my mum or my bigger sister and I just couldn't lie to her.
25:58So I wanted her gone.
25:59And just not to have the freedom at all to be dictated to by someone else.
26:03And we couldn't even figure out if the secret traitor was trying to help us or just look after themselves.
26:08We really were all at sea.
26:09I think they're probably just trying to look after themselves.
26:11Yeah.
26:12I think that makes sense.
26:13I mean, as a lover of the game, it's genius. It is now three-dimensional traitors, isn't it?
26:17Yeah.
26:18But yeah, in the moment, it was annoying.
26:19And the red cloak. Like, I'm sorry, but I never thought the green cloak would look inferior.
26:24Yeah.
26:25Oh, thanks.
26:26I didn't wear that red cloak.
26:27Yeah.
26:28We now know that the secret traitor is going to rejoin the traitors in the turret.
26:31Yeah.
26:32But you had no idea what was going to happen in the future, whether you would ever know who the secret traitor is.
26:36Right.
26:37You don't know how it's going to play out.
26:38Yeah.
26:39You don't know whether that hierarchy that you talk about is going to be there sort of constantly.
26:41Yeah.
26:42Yeah.
26:43So it was completely baffling.
26:44Hugo, what's it like watching Rachel and Stephen navigate the game now you're gone?
26:49Are you going to be rooting for them, or will you be delighted if there's a downfall?
26:52No, I wish them all the best. I think they were playing it absolutely properly.
26:56And they're both very canny, smart people, and they're both lovely people.
27:00And yeah, we were all traitors together, and I would have taken the first opportunity to knife them in the front.
27:06With alacrity.
27:07Yeah.
27:08Now, we're out of time for part one, but we'll keep chatting over on BBC Sounds.
27:13I'm going to ask Hugo who he would have murdered next, and we'll find out if Ben told Claudia he wanted to be a tracer or a faithful.
27:19Plus, there'll be more from Charlotte and Cat.
27:22It's all in your bonus episode of Uncloaked, which you can hear right now.
27:25Just scan the QR code on the screen and listen as you get ready for bed.
27:29I'm back on Wednesday night straight after episode four with all the reactions to that secret traitor reveal.
27:34It's a huge moment.
27:36Who's it going to be?
27:37Big thanks to Cat, Charlotte, Hugo and Ben, and to you at home for watching.
27:41I'm Ed Gamble.
27:42Stay faithful.
27:43I'm Ed Gamble.
27:44Stay faithful.
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