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ESSENCE Editors and Eboni K. Williams come together for an ESSENCE Town Hall as we discuss the killing of George Floyd, the Minneapolis protests, and more.
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00:00News and Politics here at Essence, and today I'm joined with my senior editor,
00:15Tanya Christian, and host of senior culture, Ebony K. Williams.
00:20Hi, ladies.
00:22So we have a lot to talk about today.
00:25Okay. Let's start off with the unrest in Minneapolis. Overnight, a precinct was set on fire.
00:34People have been protesting. People have been rioting and looting because of the murder of
00:41George Floyd. And so what is the impact that this is having across the country?
00:51Well, it's enormous, Aisha and Tanya. I just got off of a call with a very comprehensive
00:58group of leaders in the Black community and allied communities talking about this very issue. So
01:05what we know is that what we're seeing right now in terms of the protesting, including the rioting
01:12and the burning of a police station, and all of this is a result, and it's quite proportional,
01:16correct, right? Based off of the decades-long now trauma and devastation that our community has
01:24faced primarily at the hands of law enforcement, and people are understandably outraged. And that's
01:30what we are seeing. We are seeing an active display of that outrage and a place of unrest. And we all
01:38know Dr. King's famous quote, riots, violence ensues when messaging is not heard. People are not being
01:45heard. Changes are not being made. And so thus, we are seeing the devastation that's going around
01:51the country right now.
01:52Yeah. I know this morning, something that came out was that a CNN anchor was arrested. As Aisha said,
02:05the police department, they said ablaze. And he was out there simply covering the protests
02:12and was arrested. And I know we have a clip for that. Can we play that clip?
02:17I'm sorry?
02:18You're under arrest.
02:19Okay. Do you mind telling me why I'm under arrest, sir?
02:22Why am I under arrest, sir?
02:26I'm here with CNN and he's on the air right now.
02:30Okay.
02:32You are arresting him live on CNN. We told you before that we are with CNN.
02:36Now, as you can see, he's covering the news and he's getting arrested. And so I think for
02:45a lot of people who want to protest, who want to actively protest, but are maybe nervous about
02:52being arrested or dealing with law enforcement, what are some tips? What are our rights? What
02:59can you tell our audience?
03:02The hard truth, Tanya, is of course that should not happen. Omar is out there doing his job
03:08representing the fourth estate, which we know is pertinent to these moments. But there's a political
03:13interest of law enforcement and others in these capacities that are being challenged. They are
03:19being challenged. They are being confronted in real time on television, right? So there's a public
03:26power at play and it's being aggressively shut down. That is what we are seeing in that clip,
03:32ladies. Make no mistake about it. That is, there is a politics invisibility, right? And so when
03:38reporters and cameras are out there documenting in real time the devastation of human rights as it
03:46relates to our First Amendment rights to free speech and to protest and to hold to account these
03:51entities that are at play, they run up against a diametrically opposed political interest to shut
03:56that visibility down. So I wish I had good news for you here. I do not. I would simply encourage
04:03people to not allow the fear of being wrongfully arrested, which is indeed what we saw there.
04:10That is a wrongful arrest. And there are attorneys like myself and many, many others that will help you
04:15fight that fight in court. But sadly, that is the cost. That is the cost of showing up in your rights
04:22in this moment. It's know for fact that once you go out there and protest and in an awful peaceful way
04:28even, that indeed you confront the very real possibility of someone infringing upon your rights
04:34by these types of wrongful arrest. And so last night, Trump, of course, got on Twitter
04:41and he called the protestors the complete opposite of what he called the white protestors a week ago
04:50who were protesting and expecting to be cut down. Why?
04:54Nor was that what he called the protesters in Charlottesville.
04:57Exactly. They're all very, very good people.
05:00Yeah, very good people. So why do you think, I mean, we all know why, but you know everything
05:05out there, why is there this disparity and how he refers to different types of protesters?
05:12Well, ladies, I read a piece in the Atlantic a couple of weeks ago and it was entitled
05:19The Racial Contract is Showing. And I'm reading a book right now by Charles Mills that is called The
05:24Racial Contract. And I'm deeply fascinated by the fact that we are in a racial contract in this country.
05:31Okay. As black citizens and frankly, any non-whites, we are subjugated to an unspoken expectation
05:40that says we are to live submissively to white supremacy. I mean, that sounds dramatic and it is,
05:48but that is the reality in which I see it. I don't know how it can be interpreted any other way.
05:53And so if you have an acknowledgement and an understanding that that contractual
06:00interplay is expected, then Trump's comments should make all the sense in the world.
06:05Trump is simply enforcing and articulating the very, and that's really to me what is different
06:12about Trump. These expectations of white supremacy and thus black and now white subordination
06:20were more or less unspoken for many, many years in this country, right? Since we came out of
06:26emancipation and Jim Crow South for about a good 20 to 30 to 40 years, these expectations of the racial
06:32code, if you will, the racial interplay and the positioning, the hierarchies in which those
06:37interplays should look like remained pretty silent. What this Trump administration and Donald Trump
06:42himself blazingly represents is an articulation and an aggressive and violent enforcement of that racial
06:54contracting code. So when Donald Trump gets on Twitter and in capital letters refers to black
07:01protesters, most of whom were incredibly peaceful in their demonstration as thugs, that is a very
07:08thinly veiled, if we want to call it that, articulation of get in your place. Get in your place.
07:16This country is designed upon a model that expects white power structures to prevail. And when we,
07:23as black or non-white citizens show up to push against that, to reject that, we are met with violent
07:31enforcement of that. And our executive producer, Melanie, has a question from the Facebook audience.
07:38Wonderful. Hello, ladies. So Nyjah Green wants to know,
07:42do you ladies think social media has a lot to do with this movement's influence?
07:49I'll start, of course. And again, this is very important. We're, you know, body cams. I mean,
07:55we started to see this sadly after the killing of young Trayvon Martin several years ago,
07:59oh, my God, now that's been about seven or eight years ago. And then we saw body cams and things of
08:04this going. And so sadly, as traumatic as those videos are, and I know I'll speak for myself, ladies,
08:10I tend to not be able to bring myself to watch them because that is its own trauma. However,
08:16the mass distribution of those videos and a viral capacity on social media, on Instagram,
08:22on Twitter, and on Facebook does a tremendous amount of good. That is power. Make no mistake about
08:28it. It is that, Aisha. It is the mass amplification of the trauma we, in our communities,
08:36know has been going on for decades. And so it does have the power of visibility at play here
08:42that is calling to attention. I mean, you've got the likes of somebody like Taylor Swift
08:47tweeting today, right? Saying, calling Trump out and saying, sir, you have flamed the stokes of racism
08:54in this country, your entire administration, we will vote you out. So it acts in a trickle effect
09:00to bring about an actual call of political action. And I think that's very powerful.
09:04It amazes me that when people outside of us see these videos and images where they're shocked,
09:12oh my god, I can't believe this is our America. You know, this has always been your America.
09:16Mm-hmm.
09:17So now it's front and center, you're shocked. But now that you're shocked, what are you going to do about it?
09:23That part.
09:24How do you call themselves allies? How are you being an ally? You know, you need to do
09:29more than you need to get out there and disagree with your racist relatives, you know?
09:37Well, and join us in a call to action. So again, the call that I just got off of, ladies, without
09:42compromising the integrity of what we're building there, what we know is there is an outrageous
09:49level of energy amongst us now within Black folks, but also in non-Black folks, right? Like you said,
09:57these alleged allies. So there are a lot of people are waking up this morning and this afternoon and
10:02saying, oh my god, shock and awe, something has to be done. What do we do? Well, I'm a big proponent
10:09of having a focused and specific ask when people want to know what to do. So if you are somebody that
10:16wants to know what to do, or you want an answer to tell your non-white, excuse me, non-Black associates
10:23and social circles what to do, join us in our call to action to change legislation. That is the key,
10:30ladies. When we change the laws that allow for the legal killing of unarmed, and I'm saying unarmed,
10:37but frankly, last I checked, we have a Second Amendment right in this country, look at Philando
10:41Castillo, legally carrying a firearm and still shot to death on camera. And we still have no justice
10:49around this young brother's death. So we're seeing this, but we need a change in laws that currently says
10:56that law enforcement can use deadly force with the mere proclamation of reasonable fear. That's all they
11:03have to allege. There's no threshold around that. There's no checkpoint around that. That is a football
11:09field wide scope of latitude. As long as that's the law, ladies, we will get no justice. No matter the videos,
11:17no matter the viral effects, no matter the social outrage from our white celebrity friends,
11:23it will remain the same. Until the legislation is changed to say instead of reasonable fear, necessity.
11:31That has to be the legal language. You are not allowed to use deadly force, even as an officer,
11:36unless it is deemed legally necessary. Now, when that type of legislative change occurs,
11:43that is when we will start to see justice. And perhaps more important to me, ladies,
11:46than convictions of these killers, I don't want our brothers and sisters to lose their lives in the
11:51first place. Right. Right. Absolutely. And to answer the viewers' question, from a reporter's
12:00standpoint, unfortunately, these videos that go viral on social, I think Lee Merritt said it's a
12:09necessary evil. Because we'll take the case of Ahmaud Arbery, who started covering it probably two weeks
12:18before the video came out. And it wasn't until that video came out that people really understood what was
12:26happening and paid attention to what was happening. So some, for, even though it's traumatic to us,
12:33it is important, um, because I think it does propel the narrative.
12:38Yeah. And I think Noni has another question from Facebook.
12:42Yeah. So I do see some back and forth in the comments. Um, there's some people saying, you know,
12:49we shouldn't be ruining our own communities with the riots. Other people saying that this is just how
12:54we're, we're getting emotions out. What, what are your, um, thoughts on that, of the right way to approach
13:02it? Which is, is hard to even say, but yeah, what are your thoughts on that? I mean, personally,
13:08unfortunately, Aisha, before you start, I didn't hear the question. Could you repeat it for me?
13:12Yeah. So there's just some, um, comparing in the comments about what people should be doing right
13:18now, crawling out against the actual rioting and ruining our communities, or, you know, is this the
13:26right approach? Is this not rioting? Is this, you know, other societies and other groups do, um,
13:32speak out against this in these same ways? So what, what do you think about that?
13:38I mean, my opinion, personally, white people started riots. There was Boston Tea Party, you know,
13:44that was, I think, one of the first riots in the United States. They burned, they village the town,
13:50they burned down a ship, you know, because of taxation. So I know a lot of white people,
13:56personally, you know, oh, well, why are they doing this? They're staffed, they're this and that,
14:00but it was, we burned it for years. So. I also think that's a convenient distracting point,
14:07right? I think it's so convenient that every time one of our young brothers and sisters is murdered,
14:13uh, on camera and we are speaking about it and it's getting traction,
14:17then the conversation conveniently shifts to the looting and the rioting and the protesting.
14:24Um, I find it, uh, not even important right now. I will say it plainly. I think that that to allow
14:31ourselves as a community to start having some internal debate around the merits of riots and
14:37protests and the verbiage and really what becomes some semantical dialogue is a huge red herring.
14:43It is hugely distracting to the very important work that is necessary right now, which is to me,
14:49in my legal opinion, we should be focused solely on the legislative change.
14:54Nothing else should matter right now. And then the legislative change.
14:58We're riding over injustice. White people, they riot when they, their football team loses,
15:02their hockey team loses, they're just sitting over sports. You know, there's a meme about
15:09Colin Kaepernick, why we kneel. Well, this is why we're right. Because people are being thrilled,
15:16what, it's like once a month now? There's Breonna Taylor.
15:19At least.
15:20And now we have Floyd. So, you know, there's but so much people can take before they start burning
15:31things down. And this is the country we built for free. So, you know, there's repercussions when
15:39the justice system is injustice constantly. Absolutely. And I know I was watching the press
15:47conference that the prosecutor gave, like right before we started. And, you know, a reporter asked,
15:55he said, was the decision to arrest him, was that spurred by the protests and by the rioters?
16:04And although he didn't directly say it, I think we all know that it was, it was that, you know,
16:13that pressure to hold people accountable is, is helping to hold them accountable. And, you know,
16:20now there's one is arrested. Obviously, they say there were four involved. And if I'm not mistaken,
16:26there's also another video that shows exactly what the other three did during the arrest. And so,
16:33like, we're moving into that place of, well, something is working, right? And even though it
16:40feels like, okay, well, why are we burning down our, our communities? There's a reason for the actions
16:47that are being taken. And I think that that also needs to be remembered, right? Like we're not
16:52rioting, protesting, whatever, because a sports team lost, right? Like we're, we're, it's because
16:59we now in the middle of a pandemic, right, where we're already feeling frustrated by what's going on
17:07outside, then we still have to be dealing with these images every couple of weeks of people being
17:16killed. And like, and especially when it's law enforcement, it's, it's, there's a level of rage
17:21that comes with that because they are supposed to be in our community to protect. And then this is
17:28what's happening. And you mentioned that the cop was arrested and he was charged, but I would like
17:35Ebony to explain the charges that he received versus the charges that somebody could receive.
17:41Absolutely. That's important. And I've been getting inundated with that question. So as
17:46Tanya just mentioned, one of the officers of the four that are being alleged of killing George Floyd
17:52has been arrested, but he was charged only with third degree murder and manslaughter. And I want to
17:57break that down because most of us in the legal community, based off of what we saw on that recording,
18:03we're expecting a first degree murder charge. Now, the difference between first degree murder and
18:07third degree murder in the state of Minnesota, as it is most places in the country is premeditation.
18:13First degree murder charge requires an element of premeditation. Third degree is a, is a non
18:19premeditated murder. Uh, but premeditation can be formed in an instant. You learned this the first
18:26year of law school. Okay. So don't think that premeditation requires some, you know, months long or
18:31weeks long planning. No, no, no. Premeditation literally can take an instant according to the law.
18:37And so when you have your, your knee on a human being's neck for what was an excess of five minutes
18:45and you're being told, yeah, eight minutes, you're being told by this individual, I cannot breathe.
18:52Mama help me. Uh, I'm going to say that there was at least eight minutes worth of premeditation
18:58at play. And so what, uh, what should have happened and I expect will happen. Don't be surprised ladies.
19:05If you see that third degree murder charge, uh, ratchet it up again to Tanya's point as a result
19:11of the continued display of protest from the community, because again, visibility is its own
19:16political power. Uh, that, that was a district attorney trying to split the baby, trying to,
19:23that's a compromise. I'm going to throw y'all a little something to get y'all off my backs in this
19:28moment and pardon my French. It's BS. Okay. Because indeed that was a level of premeditation at play
19:35there. And, and if you want to argue that it's not, that's for the jury to decide that is for a jury
19:41to decide once you take it to a trial. Okay. That is not your decision as a prosecutor on the front end
19:48of, of, of this type of judicial inquiry to decide whether or not premeditation was there or not.
19:53Let the jurors decide that. And then what you have the option of is what we call lesser included
19:58offenses. That's why we see that manslaughter charged in there too. So that's to say if the
20:02jury doesn't think that there's enough to approve first degree murder or second degree murder or
20:06third degree murder, then they can, they can convict of manslaughter. But the point is ladies,
20:11this is the jury should be given all of those options. A district attorney should not be
20:17undermining the legal process in this way by starting at a third degree murder charge.
20:22And what are the other charges his fellow officers could receive?
20:28Yeah. I mean, listen, what, what I would predict in this moment is they're probably going to either
20:33be charged similarly to him or less because it's, it's pretty clear with the tape that he is deemed to
20:39be the most aggressive of the bunch. So if right now he's looking at third degree,
20:44it wouldn't surprise me if these accompanying officers get third or manslaughter. And that's
20:49why that's problematic. See, because he needs to be charged at the highest possible level so that
20:55the accompanying officers have some scope in which they can face legal consequence. If you have the
21:02most aggressive officer already starting with only a third degree maximum penalty, that's going to leave
21:09even less margin for prosecutorial discretion for the remaining officers.
21:23Although it's not legislation, a recent case, Breonna Taylor's case, we see now that they are saying
21:31that they are putting a ban on no doc arrest or warrant. So can you explain that, um, the concept of that and why
21:41it was possible for them to kill Breonna Taylor in her home and yet there are no, there have been no charges?
21:51Certainly. So Breonna Taylor, 26 year old medical technician, former EMT, shot to death
21:57eight times in her own home living with her boyfriend. Now, no knock warrants, um, are fairly rare
22:06in, in the judicial space. And the reason why common sense, you're going to bust into someone's home,
22:12the place where they have an expectation of privacy and safety, uh, and go in there with violent force
22:19without even announcing yourself. That's because a no knock warrant allows you to do that. It allows law
22:24enforcement to enter the space without identifying themselves without knocking or, or otherwise
22:29informing the resident that they're even coming in. And according to our United States Supreme Court,
22:35it's only to be used in the most exigent of circumstances. You've got to prove that a knock
22:40would endanger the officer's lives. You've got to prove that a knock would allow for the destruction of
22:46evidence, uh, or something of that nature. To my knowledge, let's look at the facts, ladies. Uh,
22:52Breonna Taylor and her, her fiance were in the, our boyfriend were in that house. Uh, they were only
22:57looking for drugs. They weren't looking for guns. They weren't looking for other ammunition that would
23:02endanger the officer's lives. So you don't meet that standard. Um, and then the target of the drug
23:08investigation was already apprehended prior to coming into Breonna Taylor's home.
23:16Yeah. From where I'm sitting, I don't see any of those no knock requirements. So that's why,
23:21Tonya, it is not surprising that now today, what, three months almost after this young lady's lost
23:27her life, um, they are temporarily suspending no knock warrants in that jurisdiction because I believe
23:35it was improperly utilized in the first place. And that is why this young woman is no longer with us,
23:40why they have not been arrested. Again, we're going back to prosecutorial discretion,
23:44but I suspect now that these visibility politics, these protests, and all of this outrage that is
23:50coming to the forefront will force a revisitation of that legal conclusion. And in regards to Breonna
23:56Taylor, her fiancee, the party would just drop. Yes, he did. Two days ago. And so why was he charged
24:03to begin with if he was only standing his ground? It was a verdict. Right. So again, we're supposed to
24:11be a second amendment. We know the NRA is all about Americans' rights to bear arms and protect
24:16themselves, right? So that's what this young man was doing. Uh, at 1230 in the morning, uh, with brute force,
24:23many, many, many officers come in guns a blazing. Of course, he's going to fire back, use his fire to
24:27protect his home and his family. And he was originally charged with attempted murder, which is outrageous.
24:33So again, because of the publicity and the outrage, those charges were dismissed just a couple of days ago.
24:40As far as Ahmaud Arbery, it's like when it's sad and it's stressful, but with this case,
24:54you know, it took weeks.
25:00What do you think that outcome will be?
25:02Sadly, sadly, I believe that outcome will be the same as it was with Stephon Clark.
25:10I think that outcome will be the same as it was with, uh, uh, what's his face? Um, Mike Brown.
25:16I think it's gonna be the same outcome. We see all the time, ladies in these situations where,
25:21uh, it'll go to trial and then the statute that the statute will read to the jury,
25:28as long as the officer was able to articulate some kind of reasonable fear, whatever that is,
25:33whatever that means, uh, you cannot convict because that's how the law reads right now.
25:37And I think that we will not see any level of accountability or any convictions for the death,
25:43the killing, the on-camera killing of Ahmaud Arbery.
25:46That's unfortunate. You know, can you explain, um,
25:52a lot of people were saying that the men, the Mick Michaels who were involved with, um,
25:57Ahmaud Arbery's killing should be charged with a hate crime. Now, Georgia does not,
26:04does not have that statute. So they said that it could not be charged in Georgia as a hate crime.
26:08But now we know that the, um, FBI is looking into that. Um, so can you kind of explain that and how
26:15that language works and how they're not able to get that charge in the state, but then the FBI is able
26:21to come in and decide that they want to, um, do a federal hate crime charge?
26:25Yeah. Okay. So that's really important, Tanya. So what you're talking about is, um,
26:31when there's a conflict of laws, uh, we have something called the supremacy clause that always
26:35says that the federal, um, jurisdiction is going to supersede anything else. So correct. Georgia state
26:42doesn't have a hate crime legislation. There's no mechanism in which to bring that type of charge,
26:48but of course the federal government does. So absent the state's ability to do something like that,
26:53which is the case here, the federal government then can step in and say that they have jurisdiction
26:58because they have the mechanism in which to bring and prove, um, that a hate crime based
27:03on race or sexual orientation or something of that nature does exist. And, and certainly,
27:08I think that is very warranted, uh, in that case.
27:11And I'm going to check in with Noni to see if there are any other questions on the Facebook audience.
27:19Hello ladies. So, um, I actually did have a question myself for Ebony. Hopefully you can hear me.
27:24Ebony, can you hear me now? I can. Yes. Yes. Okay. Awesome. So we see a lot of people, um,
27:30the videos are coming up. They are UGC, you know, people taping themselves with their phones. What should
27:37people do if they come across a situation like this, where they see police using excessive force?
27:43Um, should they, you know, videotape? Is there a certain amount of distance they should keep? Is
27:47there, can we call the police on the police? Like what is something that, um, people can do when they
27:52come across these situations? So yeah, all of the above, uh, you should absolutely videotape it. As we've
27:58said on this chat today, sadly, that's the only compelling evidence we have around these encounters,
28:05right? I mean, we could always say you can show people better than you can tell them.
28:10So sadly that, that, uh, video evidence is necessary. Um, if we're to even start having,
28:16uh, any effectiveness here, so absolutely recorded, recorded, recorded. And frankly,
28:19if you have a choice between calling the cops or recording, I'm going to tell you to record it likely,
28:24you know, absent, um, you know, it's exigent circumstances. So you want to record it. The other
28:29thing you want to do is make sure you have a copy of said recording. Okay. And this is important.
28:33People aren't talking about this. Make sure you have a safe copy of that recording because once
28:38it's found out that you as a civilian have recorded it, a law enforcement is going to come
28:43and confiscate that recording from you. Uh, and as in the case with LaShawn, uh, McDonald in Chicago,
28:49we almost didn't even know about, uh, the, the, the real involvement there because law enforcement,
28:54uh, hit, hit the recording and they can do that. Sadly. Um, unfortunately we can't have trust
28:59in our law enforcement willingness to turn over that kind of evidence. So if you, once you record,
29:05ladies and gentlemen, make a copy and give it to someone you trust, um, because you will have to
29:09turn over one copy to law enforcement. Right. Um, I know also in these cases, we've seen, um,
29:18them try it at a, or local prosecutors, let's say have it. And then eventually the department of justice
29:28has to get involved. Why do we see that happening more regularly in these cases?
29:35Brilliant question that has to do with politics. Okay. So typically local, uh, law enforcement from the
29:43police departments themselves to the prosecutors and district attorneys, all of those are elected
29:50officials. Okay. Locally, uh, which means local perceptions matter. That's how these people get
29:58in their positions and keep their positions. So their incentive around moving forward with particular
30:04prosecutions has political connection. Hope that makes sense. Yeah. The thought is with federal
30:11prosecutions that are not elected, but indeed appointed, you're removing, you're separating
30:16yourself from some of that political interest. So that's often the case while we will see a federal
30:22prosecution team, the department of justice coming in and usurping an investigation and a prosecution,
30:29because the presumption is the hope is, is that they are not as politically influenced. They are not
30:34as swayed by local politics as would be the case with local law enforcement and local prosecutors.
30:41Now to wrap up, you know, every time, every day we're looking at the news, we're looking at the
30:48pandemic. What advice do you give to people to practice self-care? What type of self-care do you do?
30:55That's critical. Um, I know for me the past few days, and I know I'm not alone in this, I haven't been
31:01really sleeping. Um, I've been waking up in angst. Um, this, this, listen, I'm a, I'm a believer. So I think
31:09prayer is essential. Um, and if, if, if it's not Christianity, that's your jam or whatever, if it's
31:14not a religious thing, tap into whatever spiritual connection that, that centers you. And I think
31:20these are, these moments are where it's very important to have something, whether it's meditation,
31:25whether it's a breathing ritual, um, something that just centers your spirit. Um, because I know I,
31:31I'm bringing a lot of energy to this today and I'm bringing a lot of energy. This has been my life's
31:35work. So whether it was when I was a public defender or working in private practice as an
31:40attorney or my work in the last eight years as a media, uh, leader on these topics, uh, I don't
31:46have the luxury of putting my head in the sand and not engaging. Right. Um, you ladies are journalists.
31:51We don't have that option. We have to engage. So what do we do? We find our spiritual center and we keep
31:57coming back to it every day, every hour, every minute, sometimes, um, to keep us going because
32:05if not us, then who, you know, that's something I have to tell myself every minute of the day,
32:10as much as I just want to check out and be like, it's too much. Cause at times it feels like it is
32:16just too much. Um, I'm reminded that God has given me, uh, this gift and these responsibilities
32:22for a purpose. And I have an obligation, a spiritual obligation actually, uh, to make
32:26sure that I make good on that. So that's, that's what I do. And I recommend it to others.
32:35Well, thank you for joining us this afternoon. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. It's
32:40important. And I love essence and I love that essence has always been the place where black
32:44women come first. Oh, and the last point, I was talking to one of my good girlfriends that just
32:47gave birth to a beautiful, healthy baby boy, um, after five years of infertility and she broke down
32:55because she was like, my God, I asked, I begged God to give me this son. And he did. And now look
33:01at the climate in which I, I am responsible for his safety as a black mother. So I just want to say,
33:07um, my hearts are going out to all of the black mothers out there that are tasked with talking to
33:13your black sons, um, about this dynamic, about this trauma. And, uh, uh, we are here for our sisters
33:20is, is what I would say, making sure that we are checking on our friends and sisters that are, um,
33:27are heavy right now in a very particular way. Thank you so much, Ebony, Tanya, and thank you to the
33:34readers and watchers of Essence.
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